#342 - Sheryl Crow on What Hit She Doesn’t Like Performing Live + The Hardest Thing to Include in her New Documentary + Calling Bob Dylan for Help with Writer’s Block

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Speaker 1: M I'm a massive Cheryl Crow fan. I told her that at the beginning. I tell her that every time I see her. Actually ran into her a couple of weeks ago at dinner and I did not want to bother her because she's Chryl Crow and to meet massive celebrity, big part of my life musically, and then she stopped me. It was like or maybe I just said high and she got I was like, oh, I'm a big man. So she's just awesome. And I don't know if she's kind of putting one over on me, acting like she's a big fan. I don't know, Mike, I don't care. Actually, I mean, she knows stuff from the show. I know. It's just hard for me to believe that somebody that I admire also thinks I'm not terrible at what I do. So Cheryl Crow is in and we're talking about her documentary. There's a companion soundtrack that's all out May six. I hope you watch it on Showtime and the single from the soundtrack, Forever, is actually out. Now here's a clip up Forever, m Today, Heaven Moment Together Heaven, you know, talking about Michael Jackson talking about her being a school teacher talking about just fame, like what's it like? Like, what's fame like when you can't boom? There it is. I just really had a great time with this one. So check out Forever the song. We're also featuring it on the Country Top thirty the Women of Our Country like it's a massive song that we love, and check out the documentary which we talked about in here in May six on Showtime. I mean, my favorite show Crow songs are just songs that like strong enough, like gets no better. I remember just played that in the studio once and I was like, my life is over. I'm good, I'm ready to check out. On this album, though, she has if It makes You Happy, which is a jam if it make because it's a two disco action, right, so that's like greatest hits. If it makes you happy, to soak up the sun, you know all I want to do, which I think she's over. It was over and it's now back at it. But there's one point in this where I go, you know what what sound I remember? And I go, that's all I did, And then I like I was able to think about a whole year of my life based on that one sound, which is the beginning of a song and you'll hear it coming up in just a minute. Cheryl Crowe, Here we go. I love this. Thank you for being here. Please give us all the stars if you don't mind when you review this on Spotify. Now it's even easier a little thing right there, click It's all the stars, all right, Thank you and goodbye. Friends. Well, let me say that it's tough for me to maintain professionalism and be a super fan, so I'm gonna balance it here. I love that. See, I'm a super fan too. I never miss you, but I'm going we're going to keep this about you and Okay, then let me just get right out of the way the fact that every morning on the way to school only back to school, I listen to you guys, and I laugh my ass Okay, thank you? Can I say the ass word? What do you want? Yeah? There are no rules on this. Okay, Okay, we're going to this is going to be a long form and then we're going to take it and put it on national shows. Okay. We have a swear jar in my kitchen, yes, and who pays into the square jar anybody that swears period, period. So if Liz has he even had to pay into the sword jar? And are there prices for the F word? Okay, so a yeah, that's the big number. Yeah, what if you say the C word? Does that My kids don't know that word? Okay? We were talking about that on the show, like what are a curse word? Like, yeah, that's that's low form. Yeah is it a curse word? Though? Because it is a brilliant appropriate word, I'd say, Oh, that's interesting. I just assumed that inappropriate words are are curse words. I did a thesis my senior year to be an honors graduate, and it was almost eighty pages, and I did it on Carlin's seven words you Can't say. And so my theory was eventually some of them you would be able to say. In a couple of them you can say now. But I've always been infatuated with curse words and why we assign different levels of severity to just a different sound. And our culture has just said, you know the word but means nothing. But if you said the F word just your tongue working in a certain fashion, it means Okay, I'm sure you're gonna add this out. But my my fifth grader in second grade came home from school Christian School. Uh, big tuition, Christian School. Um, what's the P word? He said the word, and I'm like, oh my goodness. He's seven. He wants to know what the word? You know, And I said, it's a kitty cat. You know, it's a pussy cat. That is true. But but I did say but you know what. But he's like, well, I thought it was a bad word. I said, some words, if you use them with intention to be bad, they're bad words. So you have to watch what you say. And yeah, you don't want to say that word if you mean it ugly. The reason I was talking about it, it's so funny you brought this up is I haven't because I write. I just finished. I have a kid's book coming out in June. Even my stand up is completely clean, and so I don't want to write using curse words. So I haven't said a curseword like five years. Good for you, And I'm not anti. I like to hear them. I used to like to say them, but I in the creative process, I don't want to use them as crutches or rhymes. Yeah, because it just seems easy. But so I will say if the place is hell for referring to a place in hell. Great, but I will not use that word if it is used as a way of describing something. That's what we say in the car, if we're talking about the place. Yeah, it's interesting. I grew up around squear words, and I don't swear with my kids. Ever. You don't even slip. I did say dumb mass one day because because somebody passed me on Hillsboro and it scared me. And then immediately my boys were like, dumbass, dumbass. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, that does it doesn't work like that. Well, I'm I'm so happy you're here. And you know, when watching the documentary, the thing that I took from it is I again, I am a super fan. And I knew most your parents were interesting because I did. I don't know them personally or haven't spent any time seeing them places, so that was interesting. And then, obviously, like a good documentary does, you went so much deeper into certain parts that I only knew about. Some of them probably comfortable, some of them probably very uncomfortable to talk about. But and you and I want to make this slightly about me for a second, and just see because I was trying to find any parallels that we would have. And I when I wrote my first book, it was a long stow at how it ended up happening. But it was a memoir and I was like, nobody wants to read this. And I remember writing a part of it where but at one point, and it was really hard for me to right about and talk about my mom, who was a really bad addict and is no longer with us, she had called and said, Hey, if you don't give me money, I'm going to do porn. And it was it was so hard for and I wasn't and it's still hard to even talk about. I wasn't putting it in the book to go, look what I've been through, But it was this is the situation, how it affected me, what I learned from it. And I wonder in some of the things that you talked about in this, I was very uncomfortable sharing it. Did you have to give yourself kind of that pep talk I had to give myself when talking about things. Oh yeah, I mean initially, when my manager came to me and said, hey, Pandemic, you've got a lot of interested in in doing documentary, I was like absolutely not for one thing. You do documentaries after you're dead, you know, and those are the ones I loved, you know, Nina Simone, I mean good please, I mean there's so many good ones. I mean, even even though they're not all dead. But I binge watched the Beatles and it totally changed the way I felt about making me again. But that aside, I wound up giving into it and I said, look, it's can't be. And I loved VH one and they definitely were instrument in my career, but I was like, it cannot be like a feel good behind the music, overdramatized and um. And I picked somebody to produce it that I liked her taste, I liked her sensibilities. And then we got to work. It was hard, and it was I mean it was it was really for one thing, it was it was exhausting because you're trying to dig back through all the memories. You don't ever sit down and think about your life like that. You don't ever sit down and like dig back through. I mean really, I was sensibly forty years I mean I it started before I was even a school teacher, and I knew there was stuff that was going to be really hard to talk about, you know, being sexually arassed for a year and having people die along the way, you know, not only John O'Brien, but Kevin Gilbert, who I was very close to, you know, died in the middle of my second record. And I mean, I got beat up in the press, and this is before social media, and everything was my fault, and I just, you know, at a certain point, you go, Okay, is the story worth telling? Yeah? Well, there are lots of facets to it. It's hard to be a woman in any business. It's definitely hard to be a woman in the music business anywhere where it's creative and it's all run by men, and how do we monetize? How do we make money off this person? It's worse, I think now. It was really uncomfortable, and I didn't love that part of it. I also found when I was doing it, not to the level that you're doing, but I just know what it's like to have to read dig through things. Also found some joys that I had not felt I celebrated enough, and you know, and and a new not a new A. I revisited an appreciation that I had for people in my life that were so instrumental my grandmother who adopted me, and it was like the one person that loved me, and so and I definitely want to get to some specific things, but as I'm like watching and knowing your story and seeing you go through this, and I know it's a struggle to do it, did you and I would like an example if you have one. Did you like rediscover a joy that maybe you had tucked away when going through the last forty years? Oh? Absolutely, you know it's it's really a challenge to sit and hold an emotion. So we don't, you know. I mean, I can remember the first Grammys, which totally changed my life and my career. We got on the bus after the Grammys, after the parties and drove up to San Francisco and I played the next next night like it never happened. And that was the way my whole career was. I never owned anything. I always felt like, well it wasn't you know. It just always felt like I was an impostor to me and going back through it and seeing the transition, especially after having breast cancer, that transition of going okay, that was all a crazy dream to go from being a small town girl to becoming like the height of fame and then it all suddenly jerking to a stop and experiencing a reboot. I mean, just looking at where I am now and how I feel about life and how I feel about who I am. I'm really happy and I'm super I'm proud of who I am. I'm so grateful that all the experiences that I had helped me to remember who I am. You know, not not who I became, but who I came in as. And you know, it's life is so unpredictable and it's so not smooth, but you have all these experiences that sort of forced you to return to who you authentically are. And that, to me was the surprise of making the documentary is being able to look at it um. And there there are ten other documentaries that didn't get made that are on the cutting room floor, I mean things that we they didn't put in and watching and I felt like, oh my gosh, that's only a slice of it. But you can only use ninety minutes, so unless you do the Beatles documentary and then you put it on all of it from dead. Yeah, well, let me let me start with whenever it comes to and I have a jukebox over at the house, which is that direction. And I don't have a lot of albums, and I have like twenty and in those twenty are the ones that have been kind of the soundtracks of my life at different stages. It's a CD jukebox, so it can't just download or but one of the top five or six albums ever for me is two to Night music Club, Like my I can think of where I was. That's the strength of music. And I bet you could do this with a couple of albums as well. I know where I was, what part of my life I was going through. I mean I knew where I was everything about that based on when that first couple of notes of those songs hit and how your brain reacts and remembers like that was one of those albums for me. When you look, what was a couple of those for you that you really credit to shaping your early teenage years, Well, this has nothing to do with it. Definitely shaped my teenage years now. I came up when well, first and foremost, I was raised in a family where music was played all the time, like ad nauseam and by like music played out louder players the instruments, played with instruments and on the magna box. And my parents weren't a swing band. They played tons of like big band music. Then as that kind of faded out of their lives, we always had the music going. It was everything from Aretha Franklin to Motown to Willie Nelson to my little town played only country music and like true, die hard country music. But I grew up when it was like Boston, Foreigner Kansas, a lot of Fleetwood Mac, but Fleetwood Mac was the record rumors. I mean, I remember I got my haircut like hers, I had shawls. I would dance around with a curling iron. I mean, I was just so I want to be Stephen Nicks so bad. But it's really funny. There are a couple of songs that will come on and I can even smell, like Baker Street, Jerry Off, Jerry Rafferty Baker Street comes on, It's like, oh yeah, my brown leather bucket seats and this cutle of Supreme, you know, parking out by the old bridge. I mean, there are songs that just do that where you're you can remember exactly what the smells were where you were circling dairy Queen. But all that music. When I hear it, all that old classic rock, I'm out. I'm circling, circling the main drag between Dairy Queen and A and W. Yeah, that's how I feel with Tuesan Night Music Club. And when it comes to those songs, you know, when you walked in, we're talking for a second and you were you to tem something good, which is that segment we do and you know, full transparency here, I do that segment so many times, and I'm glad it has been a big part of our show in the six but I do it all the time, and I've done it all the time for years and years. You start to go, man, I know people love it. Don't gotta keep doing it. Do you feel that way about some of those songs? Okay, it's funny. I was listening to you guys this morning. I was like, your show is always so good and fun and funny has emotionalized. I mean, it's just a really great show. And I sat there thought, I wonder if he ever just gets sick of doing that show, you know what I mean, and also being being present because it's hard work. Man, Like, there's some nights where I walk out on stage and I have to like fake it until I make it. And generally those are the best shows. But there was a period where if I thought I had to play all I want to do one more time, I would just run straight out in front of a backdrop. And it took it took my I mean part of it is it took my getting sick to really realize. I mean that song took me all over all over the Middle East. I mean we went to Israel, we went to we went to Tokyo, to Kuala and Poora, we went all over South. The people who couldn't speak English sang every word of that wordy song. And I had I just embraced a full on gratitude and I enjoy playing it now. But there were a few years and there I was just like, ah, God, I'm sick of this song. You know, I hate a song. I hate this song. Um, but I love it. You know. I think part of what happens is you get older, you get really you know, you get sentimental, and you get really grateful, and you get really boring. And I love being boring. Now it's cool to reappreciate it is it is because I've started to find myself reappreciating not just professional things but also personal things. And so it's cool that you have because I I live it, and one day I'm gonna like, do and tell me something good again. One day I'm gonna and I don't. You can't tell that you don't like it, though, I mean I will say that. It's not even that I don't like it, it's that as you do. It's just we do it four four times a day, five days a week, twenty times, and individually all the stories are great, but it's like man is twenty times again this week? Do you hate shukakon now? No? No, I don't rufus cold cold with me? And we go places and what's funny. Sometimes I'll go into a place if it's a bar or restaurant. I'm gonna bars as much anymore, but they'll play that song over the top, like once they see I'm there, oh my gosh, and like that's so been associated with I'll just beat or a basketball game anyway here then and I'll look at me like and you'll see the guy running pointing at me, like all right, buddy, So did you ever do you talk about Stevin Knicks Did you ever have a relationship with her? Did you? Guys? Oh my gosh, Like that had to be the coolest thing. I have so many weird experiences um with people like that. Okay, So I like, if you dig back through the anals of my um my school pictures, I had the Stevie Nicks hair do. I met her at my first Grammys. I met her at an after party and I have a picture with her and Anita Pointer and Bonnie Wright and Carly Simon and me, and I was the newbie, and She's like, I love you. Would you I'm getting ready to do some songs for Practical Magic that that movie. Would you produce it? And I was like yeah. And she came to New York and and she had her posse, you know, some bunch of women, and and I produced her and it was just it was unbelievable. I can remember looking at her out in the recording booth and she looked like a fourteen year old. I mean literally, she looked like she had out aged a day. She looked exactly as I remembered her. And she just was like so embracing and so generals told stories like I imagine that we probably talked and hung out for two hours and then she'd sing, and then we'd hang out and talked for a couple of hours and then she'd sing and it was but it was so glorious. And then she said, well, you were produced the record, and I went up producing and going on the road with her, and she's just been like very god mom to me. And I don't want you to say any names here, but I have had experiences where I really was I loved people, got to know them, not that goal people that I what and I now I don't really idolize except for like hearts yeah yah, yeah, yeah, yeah yea. So, but there have been times where that's happened and I'm like, why, I cannot believe I could just spend time we're gonna do And then you're like, oh man, I kind of wish I wouldn't have because it's ruined what I cherished, which was these beliefs. And yeah, I'm with how massive you got. I had to assume that happened to some. I will say I've been really lucky. Almost everybody I've met has been beyond beyond my wildest dreams. Um I got a few people and introduce you to then, Yeah, I bet he did a few relatives. Interestingly, I worked with Michael Jackson before I hit it big. I was a backup singer. Went on the road with him for eighteen months, and there were some things on that tour. I was just like, this doesn't make sense. And then later on the documentary came out, and um, I mean he was. He was already eccentric on that tour. But people asked me all the time, are you able to listen to his music? And I'm like, man, that was the first album I ever owned. I got it from Santa Claus when I was five years old. ABC. I grew up watching his TV show. I you know, all that music was. It was important to me and it definitely changed the way I felt about him. And but I can still listen to the music from when he was a kid because I feel like he was who he was then. He wasn't who he became. But for the most part, I mean, I can't really think of anybody that's just been a douchebag, you know what I mean? Can you separate art an artist? It depends, I mean it depends there. Um, I mean we're kind of looking at that with the Will Smith thing. Now it's like, okay, we still we're gonna be able to watch some movies. Can we take out that? You know, it depends. I think it's how severe Yeah, well yeah yeah, like y R. Kelly. Never even if it comes on somewhere, I'll leave. Yeah, but again there are artists. Again, if Smooth Criminal comes on, I probably just jammed along to it before I realized, and then the song is over, and then I don't want to leave because I got a burger and I'm, you know, feeling pretty good. I did meet It's interesting. I met a young artist who totally blew up, who I had the weirdest experience with, and I can't listen to her music. I wouldn't say her name, but I mean it became massive. And you know, they're just certain people that you go, Okay, they got into it so they could be famous. And then there are other people that you go, I can totally relate to this person. They're just they love what they do. They're so into it, and they wrote the book on this and they're still cool. Whenever you were, you were blowing up. And it always feels different than what it looks like. Um, but what we knew about you from pre social media days was hey, she was a teacher and now she's doing music, and a lot of the like the background seeing from Michael Jackson, the jingle, all that came out kind of later once more information was just available, but it was teacher too, rock and roll star and so overnight, oh yeah, they over I stepped top. I get that too, and I'm like overnight. But I was thirty when my first record came out. So let's talk about that part. So you were teaching were teaching music in St. Louis school system? And what what ages were you teaching? I taught kindergarn th six music in the public school system in Fenton, which is in it's part of St. Louis. So when you're teaching music, do you still have a dream of well anything on a macro type stage, Like what's your dream when you're teaching in St. Louis. Well, I don't even know if this is in the documentary. You have been engaged three times, and um, I was engaged when I got out of school. I was engaged. The guitar player in the band I was in, we moved to St. Louis, he was born again, Christian. I was a Christian too, but he was like, you, if you're gonna not sing for the Lord, if you're going to be in bands, we can't get married. And I'd already seen sign my teaching contract. I was in a band. I just loved singing and I loved playing. I was a keyboard player. And but did you have dreams of ye? After that, I just, you know, I was always writing songs. I started getting gigs by myself in coffee bars, and I had loved it, and I thought, you know, if I'm ever going to do this, I should try and do it now. I'm not engaged, I'm I'm I'm young, and so I moved to California with a bunch of tapes. It was so different than it is now. I mean, there weren't the big vehicles like the Voice or anything like that. I mean, you've basically went out there and you tried to get into the parties where the celebrities were. You tried to get in, you know, you tried to get you put bands together, you try to get heard. You had to pay to play, you had to like it was a grind, and but on the flip side of it, you could also go out and figure out who you were without having the eyes of YouTube on you, you know. And I got really lucky. I took my tape to every every studio and I started getting some work as a background singer. Found out about the Michael Jackson tour by hearing other singers talk about it. Crashed the audition. I mean, I just I don't know if I knew I would make it. Like I've talked to like Gwyneth Paltrow and I used to be very good friends, and even Stevie, I'm like, it's interesting. Did you always know you were going to be famous? Absolutely? I always knew it, both of both of them. They always just knew they were gonna be famous. I never, in a million years I would have been in the yearbook like least likely to become a rock star, super nice person, like work really hard, things will happen. And that was kind of what I thought. When you have to leave the stability of a job like a teaching job, and you know, I grew up in Arkansas, so we did. I don't know anybody in Kansas like Central Hot Springs, my town seven hundred people, mountain Pine, but near a little rock. We used to drive to Blible to go see the movies. Yeah really yeah, yeah. My orthodonist was in Jonesboro. I know it. Well, yeah, but that's a big job because some friends that I have just moved to Nashville, but they were nineteen. Yeah, they weren't getting a check and they hadn't already developed how to pay the bill, how to budget, how to do adult things. And you're playing music but you're also giving up an actual paycheck and a job. I gotta think that you're not eighteen. That was did not that not way into it at all, Like are you just like screw it? I'm going like I got one shot? You know. It's when I, if I'm really honest with that myself, I think I would have gone right out of high school. But my parents were always like, you know, you need to have something to fall back on. It was always something to fall back on. And then, you know, when I'm growing up, it's like you get married, you have kids, that's sort of the order of things. And then when that didn't happen. You know, I've got my degree, I taught, I was engaged. Everything looked like it was supposed to do, and then what it fell apart. I was like, shoot, I'm just gonna I'm gonna see what happens. You know. I'd save some money, had nine thousand dollars and I went going out to l A. I stayed with some friends and took all my tapes around. They were partying like crazy, like doing blow. I'd never seen anything like that. I mean, I was country pumpkin Um. I wound it, moving into one better apartment, went through all my money. I got a boot on my car. I mean, it was just you couldn't pay for the boot to come off. I was eating trail Max from Public's across the street, start getting some work waiting tables, and finally got a commercial. I don't know. I mean, I think I was so naive, but also I just was. I was just really convicted. I just really wanted I wanted to be heard, you know. And now you know, after therapy and reflection and all that, I realized I was a kid that wanted everybody to be happy, and I always gonna make them happy, and if they weren't happy, then I wasn't doing something right. And I think there are a lot of people that become famous or well known that have that story. Like, if I can just make people happy, then I'll know what it feels like to be loved. Well. I did four seasons on American Idol as their head mentor, and what what um? Anyway, there's so many people that are more skilled in music than me. I me too, me too. And what the producer told me after they hired me, because I went and I was talking about song selection and performances. What hooked them was me telling one of the kids. Until I came to l A for work, I've never been anywhere like this or New York. I'm from Arkansas. We didn't see big buildings like this. So I was relating to them in that way. I was like, I know what you're feeling, like, like this stuff still crazy to me. Did you experience that going to Los Angeles or did you have absolutely? I mean I drove a Renault Alliance all the way to Albuquerque and I slept for forty five minutes in a bed that had long black hair in it, and I was like, Okay, I'm not that related, not that tired, And I got into Los Angeles on the four oh five at rush hour and sobbed. I mean, I was just like, what am I doing it looked like Mars. To me, I've never seen anything like it. And then I get to this house and these girls are all doing blow. I mean it's a girl from my hometown. I was like, what what what is this? Is this Babylon or something like? What culture am I now in? What have I dropped myself into? And a huge learning curve And within a year and I've never been out of my own country. And within a year I was singing with Michael Jackson, arguably the biggest star in the world, in front of seventy people in Tokyo. And so it was just a massive, massive um thrown into the fire. Figure it out. And yeah, I mean I was just absolutely naive. And I still feel like that. I mean, like, we're going home next weekend for Easter and I always say we're going home, and my kids are like, why do you say home? This is home? And I'm like, I can't help it. I'm so that is my small town. It's interesting. I do the same thing. Yeah, I talk about going home home to Arkansas. Yeah, it's like you don't live like I guess we always have our home, you know, We'll always have art. And that's that's the part of what's inside of you, and that doesn't never leave. And the further way I got from home, the more the more I could relate to my small town raids. How did you get to Michael Jackson background singing job? I crashed an audition, Um you're supposed to be recommended about, like Bruce Swedeen or um any Rod tempered in Quincy Jones And I found out where it was and I went and they some guy was there and he's like, tell me about yourself, I said, named Cheryl. I just moved on, Caryl Crow. I just moved here from St. Louis. I'm a school teacher. I'm doing some backup work and they're like, Okay, what do you want to sing? And I sang? And then I got a call back the next day and I sang with three guys and about a week later we were rehearsing. I sang and I got to be free with Denise Williams song and do you try to sing it? Like? Because if I went to a back backup singer audition, I would just be like, Oh, that's how do backups? Yeah? So do you go they ask you to sing? As I have no idea. There's a dumb guy question, do you sing as you're a lead? When they say yeah, they want to hear your voice. But I think it's as much as that. I mean, I think they they looked at me and thought, oh, she looks pretty harmless. You know, I don't know. I mean, I was a white girl with really curly hair. I don't know why they picked me. It's it's I still go. I mean, it's that same thing where you're talking about other people are more musical. To me, I'm like, why did I make it? There are people that are way more talented, that write incredible songs that seem great, and why why me? And that part of it is such a mind bender, because I do believe there's a certain amount of order to the chaos. But I also think there's a huge argument for manifesting things that where you put your energy it does you do get something back from that? And I just kept showing up in my own story, I just kept showing up. As you are performing on this tour with Michael Jackson, are you also hustling as in making sure people know that you're you? No, because I didn't know who you was yet, so but we all took recording um little recording studios with us four tracks, and I would write, I wrote all the time. The guy that was on the tour that ultimately became my manager would be like, Hey, we're going down to the Lexington Queen or whatever, you know, like the where all the models hang out. And I was like, dam I'm staying tonight. We're in Tokyo now I want to work on my music, you know, I would. I just worked all the time. When did you kind of figure out who you were, what you wanted to say and why you wanted to say it? Oh, about three years ago the first time. I think after the first record, the first record blew up and I was still like, after the first record, they hear that, right, Yeah, after the first record, the first I made a record that cost a ton of mone with a really high profile manager named Hugh Padgeum who produced Staying, and and I hated the record. It was super, super slick. In fact, it sounded like girls thinking Staying and I was just like, no, no, no, this isn't what it was sounding. It was supposed to rock, you know. And so I went to the record level and said, please let me have another shot. At this this is not it's the first record, talking about the very first record four or fifty dollars. Now that's thirty years ago, so that's like a mega bug and they're like Okay. Finally they were like, well give you another shot. And I sat around for quite a long time and hooked up with Bill Buttrail and made the Tuesday at Music Club record, which was a total blast to make. But there were several people that were sort of around and we jammed and that's how we got started. And then once it became my record, started working with Bill on my own, and there was a lot of bitterness once it started taking off, Like once everybody started making money, it was complications, complications, and even though all the publishing was split and everybody is making the same amount of money, I was devastating. I was like, why is there we so mad? Nobody wanted to go on the road, So why was everybody so mad? In the least complicated explation, well, the least complicated explanation I could say is that nobody wanted to go on the road because they all had their own gigs. You know, David and David Um, all of them amazing artists in their own right, but they didn't want to go and so I went to back to St. Louis. I put together a band, band together with locals. Once the record took off, then they were like, we want to be in the band. I was like, we can't fire my band. I mean, they've been with me during the hard part anyway. So the second record, I think when I went in and I went up producing it on my own, that's when I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna make a record. I like, I'm just gonna make music the way I make it, and if nobody likes it, that's cool. And that was the one that was self titled and had if It makes You Happy and Everbody's winding Road, and you know, I felt more like I didn't feel like I had to prove myself, but I definitely felt like this was more authentic. Do you do you resent the success of the first record that you don't have complete adoration for? No, not at all. I mean I loved making that record. I loved being a part of that group of misfits, and I loved them. I was really sad and I was really devastated by what happened in the end, and that was a big learning lesson for me. You know, money is a destroyer and I just I didn't see that coming. You know, I don't know. I mean I still, I still and once leaving Las Vegas when that came out and the guy that wrote the book killed himself and there was all kinds of weirdness around that, like I had known him and I'd never met him. It was damaging. I mean, it changed me. I I started wearing like goth makeup. I was just like, don't talk to me. I'm not the girl next door. You're not gonna I'm not going to be your friend. I've already been people's friends. And I saw how that worked out, and it totally changed me. And it took me a long time and start crying. It took me a long time to get back to feeling my meld self. Do you think and not to sit on this too long, but as you're talking about this, and I'm very familiar with the story because it's also talked about the documentary, do you feel like that some of the negativity was from he killed himself, but people were beating up on you that weren't him. Do you feel like that was from others and not from him, or was it just about it because you guys didn't know each other. You said that yourself now and he didn't beat me up. It all came from the guys in the group, and they're there. I mean, honestly, there's only one guy in the group that I think had real problems with the truth, and that's a pathological thing that's Had I known, I probably would not have been I wouldn't have been around him. And you know, to be told, they're amazing pathological people that have pathological issues that are extremely extremely entires of. I mean, just like interesting people, people that are high achieving. Narcissists and pathological liars can be very engaging. But sometimes when you don't know that, you wind up on the wrong side of it, and you know, that's that's all I can say about that. I didn't know John O'Brien, but I did know he was somebody's son, and had I known him, I wouldn't have written that song. I mean, I didn't know the title came from a book. So anyway, I also think that there is something that happens when you are you are unknown, and people love you and they're there, They discover you, and they feel like you're somebody that they discovered and they're extremeing loyal, and then suddenly you become famous and people are addressing you and it's like, um, actually, so s too big for bridges now or whatever. And then the press turns against you. And I wasn't aware of that either, And we watch it every day, you know, weird to see because it's like, you can continue to get more famous, but at some point you're going to get so famous and popular that you're not popular anymore, exactly, Like there's a threshold. Yes, we only allow you to get so popular before we have to turn on you and you have to turn us back. And it's an unfair thing, especially now because you can see it coming, especially with an artist who's killing it. You know, Well, let's hope that when everybody turns that they're able to withstand that and turn them back, because I have friends that that was a real struggle for. Um. What is and I don't not to stay long on this part, but what is fame like when you first get just true freaking fame, when you walk into a restaurant they have a table, or when you um when you never have to pay for anything that's always been a weird thing, like they're gonna send me clothes why. I mean, I'm happy with the stuff about it. The you know second hand place, Um, it's a it does a number on you, for sure, and the number it did from did on me was this is this is amazing. I don't know if I deserve it. So you start questioning yourself. But then the other part of it is when you stop getting invited or let's just say, in the the instances where you're not the most popular person in the red carpet, you start feeling and scare. It's like you get this bright, shiny code of paint and then suddenly they're little cracks in the veneer, like, well, how do I smooth the crack out? So I'm still I'm still the most popular and it really totally doesn't number on you. And then you start thinking about, Okay, what what do I have to write to get to stay in the top ten, to keep getting played at radio? And that's no good either. You're saying it changes your direction creatively from what do I have to say too? There's a difference of what do I have to write people will like not because I'm saying it and feeling it, but because I know, I'm trying to chase what they like. And then there is that moment where you're about to turn forty and you're still popular, but um, everything on the radio is Britney Spears and Christian Aguilera and their seventeen and they're wearing schoolgirl outfits and you're about to be forty and that doesn't number because forty doesn't get played at radio. It's just a weird thing, you know, there's not anything realistic about it. And I do wonder what girls today that seemed to be like navigating their own They they're in control of their social media. They project their images, and the images sometimes they're sexual, or most of the time or sexual, and that as long as they're in control of that, Like, how much of it are they able to because I don't read even a sentence about myself. I don't read anything because I'm too sensitive. Like how do girls now, especially when you're bringing looks into it, embody image and all that, how do they not? How is it not demoralizing? Because fame to me was already like Okay, I'm a really private person and I'm a really nice person. So and everything I'm reading about myself is okay, I got my haircut. Now I look like a soccer mom and just like mean stuff. How does anybody navigate it? I don't. I don't know. It did a number on me for sure. When I think about sounds that like really fun, positive musical sounds, like quirky sounds and songs. The beginning of every Day's Winding Robe was like what you know before? It? Actually does that make sense? Like duck, I hear that whole. I can hear it all. Yeah that I'm always curious of why things get put in and left in and where their conversations about where do we start this song? And then what is that story? First and foremost. I got my degree in piano m in piano performance, but I always played by ear, so it's never a great concert pianist. But everything else I've ever played, I've never taken a lesson, so I'm all self taught. And I would go into the studio and knowing that it was never going to be perfect, wasn't gonna be slick, it seemed more interesting to me for it to be quirky and to be more we call it ignorant more just kind of ignorant, you know. And some of the stuff that we left in was as cool as the stuff that we took out, you know. And it's just always been that way. In fact, when I first worked, when I worked with Bill Patreell, he would always say, if you if you're a great piano player, you're not allowed to people play piano, And so nobody ever got to play the instrument that they play because that way you were creating, like you were literally you weren't just playing, you were creating. And I've sort of always stuck with it. I like that idea. That's one of the reasons I went up playing so many intrant instruments was that, Okay, well i'm gonna try this. I'm gonna try that, I'm gonna try this, and um Vince Gill once said to me, I I love the way you produce records, like you'll have just some one little random thing that comes in then you never hear it again. And it is kind of like that. It's like what fits the moment, what fits the lyrics, the song, the story, And it's just the way I approached record making. Mike, can you play that just from the beginning to the first I mean that that I could just hear that and know exactly what's that. That is just when I think of just that time, the early two thousands, I mean, I don't think I need the song, just that that should be unhurdle that. Yeah, yeah, that is. Um I've always wondered, like why that I love it an entire era of my life. Um So, the first album comes out Tuesnight Music Club, it has the hits. Second album comes out. You've got two number ones again, which and we're talking about not like country genre. You're talking about massive number one Billboard number one song. Those two records go when you're getting ready to again for Come On, Come On? Which is the next record? Globe Sessions. Okay, are you nervous? Is it? Is it less about I'm excited about what's happening? Or is it more about, oh my god, can we keep it going? Like when does start to be? The conversation started happening during Come On Come On? When I was about to turn for you, the um the Globe Sessions, I'd moved, I would had been engaged again someone else that fell apart. I moved to New York City and everything about New York was inspiring, and I was also super raw, you know, really emotional, and I could not wait to get in and start writing. And that was that was so much in line with how I had made the second record, like just go in and just write and record. Um. The next record was tricky. That was the Soak Up the Sun record, and it took a year and a half to make. It was a million and a half dollars, tons of starts and stops. I did not start working, and you know, eight years I've been on the road constantly, and you have to walk into a studio a having something to say, be having some life experiences. And life experiences don't happen necessarily because you're famous, and because you're on the road all the time. I mean, that's not real life. And and you don't want to write about that. Nobody wants to hear about you know, you're your corvette breaking down, and it's just you need to go out and and live and then come in and write write a record. And that record really screwed me up. And by the time I put it out, had spent a ton of money and just was like, is this even a good record? And luckily you can listen to the record and you can't really hear all the machinations that went into it. And there are a couple of things on that record I love and that are my favorite songs. But that was a hard one in your process because you're describing something that when I'm writing a joke or a funny bit music for a stage show, I'll do it so many times I don't even know what's funny anymore, Like I'll have Okay, let me change this word. I think this may hit better, and I'm like, yes, I don't. I can't tell I've been so I have to just go. I thought the concept was hilarious. I have to stay with it, even though I don't feel I can find it anymore. When you talk about that process, that's what I felt like to me, Like you're so in it, you spent so much money, you're pulling your hair out. How do you know what's good and what's not anymore? I know? And that that was the story that record, because I could not finish anything. I think it's in the documentary, but I remember one of my first gigs was opening up for Bob Dylan, and I met him and he was really generous, like, any time you need anything, call me, here's my number. Let me know if I can never help. Blah blah blah saw him a few times through years, always had a great hang with him. So cut to this record. And it's been like eight months and I've not finished one thing. I've got like forty things in the camp, haven't finished anything. I've moved my studio from New York to my living room in l A. I've gotten where I don't even want to walk into my house because there's like a throbbing organism in my living room saying you need to be working. So my managers like, why don't you call Bob Dylan. You know, he went through a period where he he just could not finish anything. So I called Bob. I'm like, hey, sir Crow, Hey you doing. And I said, man, I'm just calling you because I I feel like I got this writer's blocking and uh, you don't understand you went through ruder block. He is a no maybe, and I'm like, oh no, And I said, he said, when's the let's teme me finish the song. I said, it's been like about eight months ago. And he's like, oh, that's bad, and I'm like, oh my god, what's happening. Um, yeah, you know, it's it's it's it's awful, and there's there's a point at which, yeah, you just you have to walk away from it, give yourself a little space. Christie Hannon was the one that said life is not your work. Your work is your work, and your life is your life. And so I took off some time and I came back to it and I could sort of find the golden nugget and some of the stuff I was writing enough to be able to finish it. But yeah, it doesn't number on you. And I don't know how you write a joke, because I'll write something, I'll write a song and I'll go, oh my gosh, this is the best thing I've ever written. And then I'll listen to it enough that I start picking it apart and I'm like, this isn't even any good. Was I thinking? This is trash? That's everything I've ever written, but trash. You You should have just stopped write it. Not must Day. That's like one of my favorite songs of all time. What's really weird about that is Nathan Chapman was then, and he's produced all the Taylor stuff earlier and he was like, you know what was a really great song? And I'm thinking he's gonna say, I don't know some old George straight it's like nama stay and I'm like, I just think. I just think people are messing with me, like this is some joke you all text each other before they come over. No, I've I've seen it to everybody I know. I mean I even go around singing my kids even know. I'm like, no, it must stay. Well, thank you when I get embarrassing that. So, uh, you're live shows, you're still playing a I was looking at the beach boy stuff you're doing. I think in Ohio the free shows you're out on tour too. You have so many songs that everybody knows all the word to, all the words to. Do you still play them the same melody so we can sing along? Yes, I do, Thank God. Yes. Because I'm gonna tell you. I thought he's gonna have to shake Audam dirt for about fifteen years. Yeah, no, no, no, yeah, a lot of times because I know Adam and we've done quite a lot together. It's been a very long time, and I'd be like, dude, don't even know what song you were singing same and that's my favorite band ever. Yeah yeah, I'm like, I can't. I learned my lesson on that. Two years we went on the road first first record. Uh. For a year all we did was to a Colorado and France. There are only two places that played it. By the time the record won the Grammys and it was huge, we were backing on the road for a year and a half and I started messing with all I want to do. We did it like a like a Jack Caro whack, like uh spoken word and people were piste And I know, I know how that is when I go here my favorite bands, I want him to sing it right down to the oh you know, I want to hear the riffs. I want to sing the guitar solos. We we stick with it, and sometimes I have to go back and listen to my own stuff to remind myself and my off leaving Las Vegas. Am I singing it the exact same way? How do you indulge yourself in your set when you have to do so many things that you're doing for the fans, Like what will you do that makes you feel good during your set that's just for you as an artist, A ton of choreography. Okay, that's IM naked. Um no, I that's really interesting. I really, you know, part of it is I just enjoy it more. Now. You know it sounds kind of hocky, but after I had breast cancer. Pre breast cancer, I didn't want to see a single face in the audience. And after that, I wanted to see everybody. I wanted to leot people in the face or into their cameras whatever. I just wanted that connection. And now you know, I'm sixty. I can't even believe I'm saying it out loud. And my band and I, you know, we've been together long time. We every time we walk out and we're still alive. We're like, we're still alive. We're playing the old you know, it's like we've we're we're super stoked. We're super stoked. You know. It's like we get played at home Depot and Whole Foods were Yeah, we're like music to shop too, and we're you know, we we played it um bonarue but three or four years ago, and I was like, man, who's gonna come? And there were people there that were my I mean, my kid's age and they knew every word. It's just it's a different thing now, you know. Do your kids understand how how differently awesome you were then as to how awesome you are now? Like, do they get it? I'm not. I'm not really, I'm sort of cringe e sweaty try hard. Um. Do you know those phrases I have a teenager, you're so sweaty try that is so craze. I know from TikTok, not from paying out a teenager. Okay, let me ask your opinion. Should I do? Should I be on TikTok? You know that's yet The answer is yes. But what happens is and it's not about you. I've also and I think I talked to Tim mcrawl about this too, who has quite the presence. Now you have to really make sure what you're doing is in line with who you are and not the trends of TikTok, because if I got on there and I'm doing the dances and I'm doing some of the it just looks like I'm an old guy trying to be seventeen. However, it is a platform for anything. Now you're a bird watching expert. They got people that will show you the coolest birds that they see from their phone. So it's you. I mean it goes back to just being a creative. You doing what you do for people who like you. The answer is yes. The long answer, well, I got asked by the powers that be that would like me to promote more to be on TikTok talk and my kids I thought their heads were gonna explode. They're like, Mom, you cannot be on t That is so cringe e. As long as you're not doing the sound, it would be awesome. What if we light our farts? Come on, who doesn't think that's funny? That's the one thing you should do. Yeah, I mean only that. If you only made that your thing, you'd have so many followers. Yeah, TikTok to me the best because there's just so many creatives there. Right aside from all the trendy things. I think you should get on TikTok because there's just this lady Babs is that her name? What is it? Frinch with Babs? Yeah, I don't know. I want you. Are you on TikTok? I am embarrassed to say that I don't do social media at all? Well, participate in it. I do participate it like, I know what we post and I'm involved in it. Do I go on and look at it? Absolutely not. I gave my Life is too Full Chryl Crow two three eight five hundred bucks and Apple gift card yesterday. I thought it was you see, this is another thing we've If you mean I go on and post, I'm like, people, please know I don't need the money. I'll take the money. I don't need the money. I'm not asking you for it. That's a whole weird thing people have. I had a woman show up at my gate with a U haul recently at night. She said her computer told it was told her it was okay for her to come, and then I was her computer. Is that somebody talking to her as you or I wouldn't have questions she has been. Um, I didn't know who she was, and I don't. I don't know about the people that are COO for Kocka Pops, but um, I guess she's been an uber fan for a long time. And you know, because it was me in a wig, it was I would have let you inmost day. I would have known. I have a few more and I want to. And we did a whole intro here talking about the documentary and the song which we're also featuring on the national show that I'm doing, which is just great. It's in the not the beginning, the credits, Forever and Forever, and then the the album that comes out on the sixth. At the same time, they call that a companion album. I'm just getting my words right, right, guys, I did not know that, right, Is that right, Mike? And accompanying accompanying? No, I don't know. Yeah, so, And we spent time telling people how they can watch it May six on Showtime. It is gritty, it is beautiful. It is a documentary that you don't even have to be a fan of you to like the art. And I think that's how I try to watch them now, because there's some really good ones out there. And the fact that you didn't want to do that VH one style says a lot about what you want to represent you. Um. It reminds me a bit of when I read Steve Jobs book and he wanted the documentary and the guy was with him to write the book. He didn't want. He was like, finish it before I ever get to read it. I want you to do the most real version that you can do. It just felt like that is what you wanted portrayed. Whether you did or not, it just felt like that you wanted because there were some things, like I mentioned way earlier, that couldn't have been comfortable to have to talk about again. But I just my appreciation for that piece is super high, aside from being a massive fan of you. So if you're listening to this and you're not familiar with Cheryl's music, it's just a great documentary as well. So who does to your team? And for you for being very vulnerable in that situation, it was I mean it was interesting because I only watched it once and you know, you you basically hand over your story to um a director. Amy was fantastic, but you know, three fourths of it wound up on the cutting room floor and I made a couple of suggestions which did not make the cut because they basically decided what the story was. And the reality of it is for me is that I am a real person. I think we forget that sometimes and there's a whole world um that goes into making a person particularly want to be an artist, particularly want to raise their voices up into the fray. But also that makes them who they are. And I didn't interview with a guy recently UM for newspaper who said, I watched the ninety minutes and it defied everything that I thought about you. And that made me feel good because I'm like, there are a lot of people that aren't fans but that might get something out of it, and there is a good story there, you know, and we are all people. I think sometimes we forget, especially now more than ever, that um, you know, at the core, you're just like a little kid from small town. I have a few brief questions to wrap this up. I would do want to say at the beginning of this, this last segment here, you got to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, like I mean, it's I well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how those things were. No, I'm just saying I'm not. I don't think you can call somebody and go like, hey, probably just said I'm in. I know that can't happen. Jason Nisbel already did that. It just it doesn't feel complete without you in it and the body of work that you can present his data, but also what you've done as a person. It just feels like, if there is someone from our generation that deserves to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it is just you. Thank you. I don't you know, I I it's hard for me to even say anything. I mean, it's you know, it's I don't don't say yeah, leave it at that. I mean, I appreciate you very much. There's no reason I have had a great run. I mean, I will say that. And you know, it's a weird thing to be what they call a legacy artist because it basically means you're still around. Um, but I do. I'm loving the second half. I feel like I have so much more in me. So you know, if I if I become a member of the Rock Hall of Fame, cool, If I don't, I still donna keep going talk about Nashville. Why are you here? Well, I grew up three hours from here. Um my sister lived here, has lived here for years and years and years. When I got diagnosed, I felt like I've been in l a twenty three years and I don't even have a church. I just felt like I didn't ever put any roots down. It was always a stopping off place, and yet twenty three years later, I was still there, and that was such a game changer. I decided, you know what, I'm gonna move closer to home. I can either move to Memphis because there's an report, I can move from nash Field and I have friends here, um, you know, Emmy lou Vince. There were people I knew and that I loved, Amy grant Um and my sister and I put down roots here and it's just been an incredible place. Is it home? Me home? Miss It's not home, but it is Nashville. Yeah, I mean it's My kids are living a normal life, you know, Like I said that, they're not on social media, and they go to school like every other kid, and they're living what I consider to be, you know, the kind of life I lived. I don't know if anybody will ever be able to live the kind of life where you get on your bike and you come back at dinner. But they are as close as possible living, Um, the kind of life I did, which is a normal life. Your kids there their faces in the documentary first time. Yeah. Yeah, I was like wow, I've I've seen them in human form. It being Nashville, Um, but I was like wow, So what was that decision? Why? Well, yeah, I can't tell my story without them, and um, they are the biggest part of my story. I just had never had them on social media because, you know, I felt like for a long time celebrities use their kids like an expensive handbag, like, look how beautiful my kids are? And and I did find that when I lived in l A or at least was there still with my little ones before I sell my house, having paparazzi chase them around was There's that's just not right. You know, I'd rather than be able to be anonymous. And then if they want to get out there, then at which point they're mature enough to understand how it works, they can do that. So that's one. Here's two or three? What's I did watch the documentary? You have an appearance in it. Briefly? Do you see that the documentary? What is it? What? Yes? Yeah, I didn't see it, but yeah, yeah that real. You were artist, you're separated a bit, right, But what was it like for you? It was whatever I can tell you, It was worse than that. Whatever you can envision. It was absolutely awful. And it makes me sad because the first, the very first one, obviously I wasn't at the second one was I mean euphoric. It was such a beautiful celebration of the first one. The next one was what was wrong. It was everything with what was wrong with what the music business was becoming, which was money, money, money, money, and it was degrading to women. It was a demonstration of the worst of what's in us, with people throwing feces and throwing pennies and water bottles. It was just a bizarre experience. And even the bill wasn't It was not. It was not a bill that was sensitive to people coming together and being a part of something cool and peaceful, which is what Woodstock is emblematic. Is pretty pretty angry. It was like Andy Dick and then Cheryl Crow and then the insane clown Posse and it was just like, what is happening here? I didn't even finish my set. I mean, at which point Pecs landed on my my base neck. I was like, yeah, you know what, I was like, Yeah, I was. I just walked up to the mic and I was like, I'm done. Okay, well yeah, let's brutal. Let's end on this one. So it's uh, I want to know what makes you happy? Now? Like, where do you find your fulfilms. Oh my gosh, which is a tough one. And then I want to at the very end of that, in parentheses, how come all my friends get to go to your barn parties. I'm never gonna buy it, but let's get that at the hold you will never happen again. And this is the first real part of the question, like, OK, what is it now that fulfills you? My joy? My joy comes from just man watching my kids grow. It is such an honor and such every day I'm like you, guys, I'm so excited. I'm so happy I get to be your mom. I mean, my kids are adopted, and I'm telling you what God was all over, up and through. And then we have a French bulldog that makes all of us laugh. In fact, sometimes we look at each other and go, who are we? Who were we before Buster? We were no one? Um and barn parties, you know, it's it's sort of tragic. I used to have barn parties a lot. In fact, I used to always have a Christmas party, and then it slowed down before the pandemic, and then it screeched to hall. I just haven't gone back. No, I'm just wasn't question, like you have all these and I'm like, hey, what I was over you and Kate have to come. I was like, oh yeah, that must be cool. It's okay, let's do a fundraiser there and you guys can play. We would let's sit in with you. We would do that. You no, no, for Ukraine, I'm not. I'm not. You wouldn't let me sit in on a day? I would. I would be embarrassed if I would sit in and do one and then and no one care. I would love that. Here's what I would do. And I'll tell you this because I have one of my dearest friends is Brett Aldridge. It's like I love That's like, oh my gosh, my best friend. I saw you guys. Yes, his voice is kill It's fine. I've heard better anyway. So I tell Brett all the time, like when you want because you know when love is Christmas album? Okay. When you have friends, there's that fine line of working and business or what's the same thing working friendship? And I'm like, hey, dude, if you're going to do some sort of charity event like you're my guy, like I love you, I will do stand up. I will host it, you do the mute whatever, just let me know what you need. And so I will also tell you that right now if you're doing something here, let's do something for Ukraine and you need that kills me, we can't do anything. I will do comedy. I will do whatever you need. If you're also I'll get the Valet Parker. Don't feel like it's no, don't no. You gotta do more than that. But I'll get the Martins barbecue. I love what. I'll stop the bar what you stand for. I just just a if you need me, please, I'm here. I'm gonna call you. You know I would well, I would be disappointed if you didn't, but you never have. So I'm just gonna assume you not going to you have I have to. I have to, like face what do you do? You know? I'm always like telling Liz does my LISZT you've got to post this and I'll send her like something about something I just heard on the Bobby Bone Show in the morning. Um okay, But I'm here for you, all right, and and we'll end up. And I don't say things if I don't minutes, So don't go sitting on a microphone. So may not. I'm I'm looking at you in the eyes right now. Let me know you. I will take you up on it. Um, everybody check out the documentary. It's great. It's just a great piece of work, aside from her large body of work that has been wildly successful. So May six on Showtime, UM, and then May eighth again of Mother's Day, and I'm assuming you'll be able to just stream it well on the Showtime app streaming. Yep. I got the show Time mapp to watch Yellow Jackets. Watched this. Oh my gosh, you finish it? I have not? Have you started it? I've started it, but I haven't finished. I'm in season one, the only season one? Oh okay, but the girls that crashed the plane? Yesh, sason one? Is there no another season? Okay? Just one? But I want to watch the two in faith? Also, what do you mean faith one? Do my faith? What there isn't that the no? No, no, no no no, that's not the precursory. No yellow jack Jacket. Oh no, I haven't seen that. Two totally different shows. Okay, okay, okay, Showtime. It's okay. It's a good just saw her high school talking to the crashes and they have to survive. And I've heard about yellow Stone. Okay, yeah, yes, yeah, and then that's it. I'm sixty. See that's the way it works. But that's the thing. You don't seem it. But I don't even know what sixty means anymore, because it's not a thing to be sixty, and that just means something because of the number you are. But it has been really fun talking with you, Billy. Thank you. I'll take it. Did I call you something wrong? No, I'm just saying I'm sixty, so I called you billy. I don't associate sixty with old Okay, yeah, okay, I'll take it. So I'll take a joke fell so flat because I didn't even think that was what the concept was. Yeah, okay, I'll tell you what you I'll stick with music and then you just stick with comedy, and I want, I want no, I'll try no, I'll try not to break into the comedy thing because it doesn't really work. I'm opening for Garth and we can have it. You are? Is he playing a uh Bridge Stone? He's playing it here in Nissan stadiums saying, but he asked me to come to Arkansas. I was playing the Razorback Stadium, eighty thousand people, and it's like, come dude, come oh, that's cool. We're not gonna play Namas State though. I'm like, I'm not gonna play Yeah. All right, there we go. Cheryl, you're the best. Thank you kind to be here with you. Thank you. Get your number. That is it, Cheryl Crowe. Everybody