Trailblazer: Astronaut Eileen Collins reflects on space, adventure, and the power of lifelong learning

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T minus 10 seconds. Go from 8 engine

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start.

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7, 6,

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5. 3 engines up and burning.

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3, 2,

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1.

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And liftoff of Space Shuttle Discovery,

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beginning America's new journey to the moon, Mars,

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and beyond. And the vehicle has cleared the

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tower.

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Houston's now controlling. Commander Ollie Collins confirming Discovery's

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rolling onto a course for Vonovu at the

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International Space Station.

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Stories

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podcast. I'm Andrew Gleston, and I'm delighted to

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say that in today's episode, we'll be bringing

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you astronaut

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Eileen Collins, who didn't just break barriers as

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the first woman to pilot and then command

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a NASA space shuttle, she was also the

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person who NASA chose to lead one of

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its most significant missions,

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the return to flight mission aboard discovery

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after the tragic Columbia disaster.

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Eileen's journey

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of resilience, courage, and dedication

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is now captured in a powerful new film,

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Space Woman,

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by director Hannah Berry.

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It's previously directed

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Miss World 1970,

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Beauty Queens and Bedlam, Rockfield, the studio on

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the farm, and Banned, the Mary White house

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story. We'll hear from Eileen soon. But first,

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I wanted to know what had drawn Hannah

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Berryman to this story.

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I was approached by

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the producers,

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and I guess I'd done previous documentaries about

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strong women that are important, I guess, in

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in in sort of cultural or social history

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as well.

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And they

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said to me, was I interested? I said,

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yes. I I was

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intrigued straight away and then I read Eileen's

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book

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and the story immediately drew me in and

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it was kind of a mixture of being

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the first woman to do these things that

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were very much a kind of male domain

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like the top gunners have been a pilot

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first and then into space and I think

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via her story it was so personal it

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took me into space and I felt like

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I was going and I thought maybe we

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could do that with the viewer

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and I also was intrigued

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that she wasn't from a rich and privileged

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background that was just as much as an

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important thing for me

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and,

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and I was into and I was suddenly

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interested in space. I wasn't not interested in

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space before but it made me more interested

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so

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I wanted to do the film and meet

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Eileen.

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Yeah. Fair enough. Did you go I mean,

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how did you go about it? Did you

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read the whole book and then set out

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about which interviews you wanted to do? And

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well, I read the whole book, and then

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we had a quick Zoom, didn't we, Eileen?

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We chatted and,

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chatted to

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Pat and chatted to Bridget, Eileen and Pat's

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daughter.

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And then we made a plan to go

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and visit

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Eileen, her sister in her hometown in New

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York state,

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and that's where we did the first interview.

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It was a kind of quite casual interview,

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the 2 shot interview,

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And that was great to do. We filmed

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a little bit there and in the place

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where Eileen first saw people flying, gliding, which

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was because I'll mark in New York is

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a gliding center because of the weather and

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the conditions, which is kind of amazing. We

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were lucky because we only just got the

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conditions to film it. It was horrible weather

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when we were there.

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And then when we did the main interview,

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I mean, I normally do interviews that are

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kind of 2 to 3 hours long max,

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but we did this. It was about 8

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hours.

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An hour of that was lunch. And Eileen

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was

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just as competent right at the end as

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she was at the start.

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Amazing. Amazing. And that was you know, that's

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how we did it. And then we just

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filled it out with dip different filming with

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different people that were part of the story

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and, you know, with the family and things.

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So, yeah, it worked like that.

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It's a silly question, but are you happy

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with the way it's turned out? Very. Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Because it's an emotional

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story as well, and that's, I guess, something

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that my films are supposed to be. They're

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kind of wrestling with

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all the things that make us the people

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we are

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and all the ways that affects our life

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and, you know,

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so

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it was a it was really interesting. And

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and the fact that Eileen was part of

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such a dramatic

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return to flight, you know, that was obviously

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the culmination of an amazing career.

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And I I was really happy with how

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that all came out.

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Eileen, was this an easy thing to say

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yes to?

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No. It wasn't easy. Well, this back up

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before I got to know Hannah,

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right when the book came out, which was

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October of 2021,

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shortly after that,

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Keith Haviland,

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who happens to know my coauthor from

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I mean, they're

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not close, but they,

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I would say, are acquaintances because

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my coauthor,

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his name is Jonathan Ward.

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He's written 2 previous books on actually, he's

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written 3 previous books on the space program.

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And he's met Keith in the past. Well,

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Keith contacted him and said he'd like to

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do a documentary

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on the book. And so Jonathan

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Ward

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relayed that to me, and I said absolutely

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not.

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I'm not doing no. I don't have time.

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I don't want I'm a private person. I

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don't want my life out there. It was

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hard enough for me to write this book.

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And by the way, my last flight was

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in 2,005.

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So I waited 15 years to decide to

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write a book.

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So, you know, I just didn't I I

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don't like to,

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promote myself. And I figured I'm just good.

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Well, the pandemic hit in 2020. And I

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had nothing to do because all my speak

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I'm a speaker and I'm a professional speaker.

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They all either canceled or went to Zoom.

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So I had all this extra time on

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my hands. So I wrote the book.

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Right when it was published, Keith Haviland. I

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just told you that story there.

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And I said to Jonathan, no.

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The book was was a step that

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I relented to. Now I don't wanna do

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no. I'm not doing the anyway, like, a

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year went by.

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And Keith,

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I would say we had we either talked

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on the phone or we had Zoom. I

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don't remember which one. But we

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communicated, Keith Haviland and I. And I've and

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I said yes. And I think the reason

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I said yes was not about me.

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It was about

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the message, the story.

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I really think it's important for young people

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part of the reason I'm a speaker,

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for young people to have role models.

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In in this world that we live in,

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the culture has gone very,

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crazy.

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And I think it's good to for young

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women actually, for young men also to have

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role models

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that are

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in the math in STEM, math, science, technology,

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engineering.

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Somebody who's been in the military. Somebody who's

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in the space program.

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Somebody who, like Hannah mentioned,

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you know, wasn't handed to me. I

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went into this career field flying because I

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love to fly. I just it's in my

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blood.

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And I thought there's probably a young person

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out there somewhere even if we only reach

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1 person or a dozen people or I

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think we're gonna reach a lot of people.

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I think the message will help young people.

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And I'm talking like middle school, high school,

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college

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in that. And so that's why I eventually

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said yes. But once I say yes to

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something, I'm in it a 100%.

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And I really

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as much of my I I tried to,

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like, give get everybody's request done as best

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as I could. So I

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put a 100% into it. Course, the pandemic

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was over, and I started

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my traveling and speaking again. So that made

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it difficult to get everything done. So can

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I take you back to when you were

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in high school? We I know that you,

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you know, you became a a test flight

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pilot and obviously went to space,

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for some time. But it when high school

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was space

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the destination for you? Yes.

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It's it's since 4th grade. In 4th grade,

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I read a story about the Gemini astronauts

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in a magazine about the Scholastic

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Magazine.

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That had a huge impact on me. I

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still remember it all these years later.

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I was looking at the

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short biographies

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of these

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Gemini astronauts.

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They were

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pilots, test pilots,

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engineers.

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They were doing really they were flying the

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fastest airplanes,

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and

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they were I just wanted to be just

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like them. And here I am, a little

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girl. There were no women at the time.

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But I think I was so young. At

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that point, I was so young that I

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just thought, I'll be a lady astronaut.

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It wasn't until I got a little bit

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older than 9 years old that I went,

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oh, I wonder

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if I wonder if I can be an

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astronaut. I mean, that was I don't know

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at what point

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because there weren't women astronauts until 1978.

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But but I still said, I'm gonna be

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a lady astronaut. And let me say one

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other thing about high school. I did not

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take physics my senior year of high school.

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Like, I took all the science, which back

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then was,

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there was, like, material science

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and then biology and then chemistry. And I

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took those 9, 10, 11th grade. And then

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in 12th grade, I did not take physics.

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And I remember making a decision

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to not take physics, which I regretted

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shortly after high school graduation.

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I didn't know what physics was. My

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high school did not require it. And I

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just decided, oh, I'm gonna do what my

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00:09:30,695 --> 00:09:32,294
friends are doing, and I took some other

274
00:09:32,294 --> 00:09:32,794
courses.

275
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:35,600
And I regret that. And so when I

276
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,440
talk to young people now, I tell them

277
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,539
take all 4 years of science.

278
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,679
You it will make you smarter. It will

279
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,339
help you be better at solving problems.

280
00:09:47,134 --> 00:09:49,054
Because, you know, the scientific method, you know,

281
00:09:49,054 --> 00:09:51,054
your brain is still developing. And as you

282
00:09:51,054 --> 00:09:53,615
learn the scientific method, it teaches you problem

283
00:09:53,615 --> 00:09:54,115
solving,

284
00:09:54,495 --> 00:09:56,415
not just in science, but in your everyday

285
00:09:56,415 --> 00:09:56,915
life.

286
00:09:57,455 --> 00:09:59,134
And I went and I took physics in

287
00:09:59,134 --> 00:10:01,439
college. And I loved it. And I was

288
00:10:01,439 --> 00:10:03,620
actually for a time, I was a physics

289
00:10:03,839 --> 00:10:04,339
major.

290
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,279
I ended up switching to math that had

291
00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:09,839
to do with the air force requirements. But

292
00:10:09,839 --> 00:10:12,319
my message to young people is to encourage

293
00:10:12,319 --> 00:10:14,079
kids in high school to take all their

294
00:10:14,079 --> 00:10:14,579
science.

295
00:10:15,455 --> 00:10:17,455
Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Don't worry if you don't

296
00:10:17,455 --> 00:10:18,975
get a a. I tell them, don't worry

297
00:10:18,975 --> 00:10:20,754
about your grades. You just

298
00:10:21,535 --> 00:10:23,054
a lot of them won't take science because

299
00:10:23,054 --> 00:10:24,654
they're afraid they're gonna get a b, and

300
00:10:24,654 --> 00:10:26,975
it's gonna ruin their GPA, or maybe they'll

301
00:10:26,975 --> 00:10:29,920
get a c. Take the science anyway. Forget

302
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:30,420
about

303
00:10:30,879 --> 00:10:33,059
Ukraine. You wanna you wanna learn.

304
00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:35,040
Yeah. So you don't have to go you

305
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,120
don't have to go to space once you've

306
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:37,759
done the,

307
00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,639
the all the sciences. Right? But but you

308
00:10:40,639 --> 00:10:42,639
did. I wonder whether when you were doing

309
00:10:42,639 --> 00:10:43,700
the flight tests,

310
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,335
of of the different planes you were doing,

311
00:10:46,335 --> 00:10:48,095
there's a there's a moment in the film

312
00:10:48,095 --> 00:10:50,254
and obviously in your life where you're, you

313
00:10:50,254 --> 00:10:52,115
know, you visit the edge of space.

314
00:10:53,134 --> 00:10:55,215
If you'd hadn't been able to go beyond

315
00:10:55,215 --> 00:10:57,534
that, would you have been okay? I mean,

316
00:10:57,534 --> 00:10:59,534
would that have been enough for you, or

317
00:10:59,534 --> 00:11:00,195
did you

318
00:11:00,529 --> 00:11:03,509
definitely need to go up and into orbit?

319
00:11:03,649 --> 00:11:05,889
Well, you know, I talk to people about

320
00:11:05,889 --> 00:11:08,769
space. I divide space into 3 areas. They're

321
00:11:08,769 --> 00:11:10,529
in from a this is from a pilot's

322
00:11:10,529 --> 00:11:12,389
point of view. There's suborbital,

323
00:11:13,164 --> 00:11:13,664
which,

324
00:11:14,205 --> 00:11:15,725
obviously, you don't go around the earth. You

325
00:11:15,725 --> 00:11:17,164
just go up and you come down. That's

326
00:11:17,164 --> 00:11:20,384
what Alan Shepard did in 1961, I believe.

327
00:11:20,845 --> 00:11:22,285
You go up and you come down. The

328
00:11:22,285 --> 00:11:24,144
flight's 15 minutes long.

329
00:11:24,924 --> 00:11:27,004
But, technically, if you go over 50 miles,

330
00:11:27,004 --> 00:11:30,649
some say 62 miles, Karman line. But if

331
00:11:30,649 --> 00:11:32,110
you go over 50 miles,

332
00:11:33,449 --> 00:11:34,829
technically, you're an astronaut.

333
00:11:36,329 --> 00:11:38,490
The second part of space is orbital. That's

334
00:11:38,490 --> 00:11:40,329
where you go around the earth. You really

335
00:11:40,329 --> 00:11:41,850
need to get up to, like, 90 or

336
00:11:41,850 --> 00:11:42,829
a 100 miles

337
00:11:43,225 --> 00:11:44,904
to go to have enough energy to go

338
00:11:44,904 --> 00:11:47,304
around the earth, preferably higher. Like, the space

339
00:11:47,304 --> 00:11:48,845
station is at about 250

340
00:11:50,904 --> 00:11:52,764
miles. You can switch to kilometers,

341
00:11:53,945 --> 00:11:55,544
if you want. And then the third one

342
00:11:55,544 --> 00:11:58,120
is deep space. That's where you pretty much

343
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,679
escape the majority of Earth's gravity, and you

344
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,679
get away. You you're not in orbit anymore.

345
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:03,980
You go well,

346
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:05,659
you're not in

347
00:12:06,519 --> 00:12:07,500
I'm gonna say

348
00:12:09,575 --> 00:12:11,495
some scientists might pick that one apart if

349
00:12:11,495 --> 00:12:13,595
I say you're not in orbit anymore. Basically,

350
00:12:13,654 --> 00:12:15,495
the third one is deep space where you

351
00:12:15,495 --> 00:12:17,034
go to the moon or Mars.

352
00:12:17,495 --> 00:12:19,095
So I think the answer to your question

353
00:12:19,095 --> 00:12:19,595
is

354
00:12:20,375 --> 00:12:22,075
if I had a chance to go beyond

355
00:12:22,695 --> 00:12:25,200
orbital flight, which is where the shuttle and

356
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,179
the station was,

357
00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:28,820
200 to 250 miles,

358
00:12:29,919 --> 00:12:30,419
yes.

359
00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:32,340
I would love to go to the moon.

360
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:33,460
220,000

361
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:35,540
miles, the moon.

362
00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:37,220
3 days to get there.

363
00:12:37,565 --> 00:12:39,745
I consider that deep space from

364
00:12:40,204 --> 00:12:41,745
an operational point of view.

365
00:12:42,125 --> 00:12:43,664
And I would love to go to Mars.

366
00:12:43,725 --> 00:12:45,904
But Mars is 6 months to 2 years

367
00:12:46,204 --> 00:12:46,704
away,

368
00:12:47,245 --> 00:12:48,144
depending on

369
00:12:48,445 --> 00:12:49,345
different factors.

370
00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:53,929
But it was really the timing. You know,

371
00:12:53,929 --> 00:12:56,809
when I was born and what options were

372
00:12:56,809 --> 00:12:57,309
available.

373
00:12:58,490 --> 00:13:00,329
I'd go there today if I could. You

374
00:13:00,329 --> 00:13:02,110
know, I would now that my kids are

375
00:13:02,250 --> 00:13:03,370
grown up and they are

376
00:13:04,865 --> 00:13:06,944
I loved being a mom. So, you know,

377
00:13:06,944 --> 00:13:09,024
I was able to do the astronaut mom

378
00:13:09,024 --> 00:13:11,605
thing as a as a shuttle astronaut.

379
00:13:12,464 --> 00:13:12,964
And,

380
00:13:14,464 --> 00:13:16,065
you know, when you go into deep space,

381
00:13:16,065 --> 00:13:18,225
you're gonna be gone. Mars is gonna be,

382
00:13:18,544 --> 00:13:20,245
it's gonna be 2 years minimum.

383
00:13:21,049 --> 00:13:22,909
And, we are so different.

384
00:13:24,169 --> 00:13:25,610
I don't think I'd leave my kids for

385
00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:27,289
2 years. I really don't. I mean, other

386
00:13:27,289 --> 00:13:29,049
people, if you got you know, if it's

387
00:13:29,049 --> 00:13:30,649
a woman, she's got her husband, take care

388
00:13:30,649 --> 00:13:33,209
of her kids, that'd be fine. It's each

389
00:13:33,209 --> 00:13:35,389
person's individual choice. But I think,

390
00:13:35,690 --> 00:13:36,589
yes, I would.

391
00:13:36,995 --> 00:13:38,615
I don't think I'm too old either.

392
00:13:39,075 --> 00:13:40,834
Well, why why would you want to go?

393
00:13:40,834 --> 00:13:42,674
What what is about Mars do you want

394
00:13:42,674 --> 00:13:43,414
to go for?

395
00:13:44,195 --> 00:13:46,674
I like to explore. I'm just an explorer

396
00:13:46,674 --> 00:13:48,195
person, and I was all the way back

397
00:13:48,195 --> 00:13:49,815
to when I was a kid. I remember

398
00:13:50,059 --> 00:13:51,980
back in the back in the 19 sixties

399
00:13:51,980 --> 00:13:53,199
when I was a little kid,

400
00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:55,980
my mother let my sister and I wander

401
00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:56,959
around the neighborhood

402
00:13:57,259 --> 00:13:58,079
with no

403
00:13:58,940 --> 00:13:59,440
supervision,

404
00:14:00,059 --> 00:14:01,659
but it was a different world back then.

405
00:14:01,659 --> 00:14:03,899
And I remember my sister who's a year

406
00:14:03,899 --> 00:14:06,355
younger than me, we would walk around the

407
00:14:06,355 --> 00:14:08,754
neighborhood. We go into people's backyards. We cut

408
00:14:08,754 --> 00:14:10,615
through you know, climb over fences.

409
00:14:10,995 --> 00:14:12,534
When I was a little bit older,

410
00:14:13,475 --> 00:14:15,335
we moved to we were living in

411
00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:18,674
government subsidized housing, which is like these buildings.

412
00:14:18,674 --> 00:14:19,654
A lot of people

413
00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:22,090
in the buildings, but it was on the

414
00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:24,009
edge of a forest. And we went back

415
00:14:24,009 --> 00:14:26,090
in the forest and with me and my

416
00:14:26,090 --> 00:14:27,610
friends, and we were all we were in

417
00:14:27,610 --> 00:14:30,990
the creeks and climbing trees and

418
00:14:31,610 --> 00:14:32,990
pretending that we were

419
00:14:34,165 --> 00:14:36,665
having forts and, you know, fighting bears.

420
00:14:37,285 --> 00:14:38,745
And for some reason that

421
00:14:39,524 --> 00:14:40,884
I I loved that when I was a

422
00:14:40,884 --> 00:14:42,884
kid. So I consider myself kind of an

423
00:14:42,884 --> 00:14:44,965
explorer. And I think some people have that

424
00:14:44,965 --> 00:14:47,305
in their blood. They just want to explore.

425
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,559
And I think some people like being at

426
00:14:49,559 --> 00:14:50,059
home

427
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,000
and but and that's okay. I just think

428
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,240
that the good thing for the human race

429
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,320
is that we have people that like to

430
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,100
do different things. Definitely.

431
00:14:59,735 --> 00:15:01,014
I think that's why I want you to

432
00:15:01,014 --> 00:15:02,935
end the film today as well, Eileen. That's

433
00:15:02,935 --> 00:15:05,035
why we sort of did that bit where

434
00:15:05,254 --> 00:15:07,754
we talk it broadens out at the end

435
00:15:08,055 --> 00:15:09,835
and why we ended it in that way

436
00:15:10,134 --> 00:15:10,634
because

437
00:15:11,335 --> 00:15:13,870
it's actually about that in the end. You

438
00:15:13,870 --> 00:15:14,690
know? Exploring.

439
00:15:15,070 --> 00:15:17,470
And I agree with Eileen. It's like, thank

440
00:15:17,470 --> 00:15:20,050
god that there's so many different people.

441
00:15:20,429 --> 00:15:22,750
It's up to everyone to to pursue what

442
00:15:22,910 --> 00:15:25,070
you know, the part of humanity that they

443
00:15:25,070 --> 00:15:27,309
are, and I and I I think that's

444
00:15:27,309 --> 00:15:27,809
amazing.

445
00:15:28,245 --> 00:15:30,485
I I love reading about the explorers from

446
00:15:30,485 --> 00:15:31,144
the 1500

447
00:15:31,605 --> 00:15:32,105
1600,

448
00:15:32,485 --> 00:15:32,804
how they

449
00:15:33,764 --> 00:15:35,205
I mean, that took guts to do with

450
00:15:35,205 --> 00:15:37,465
they traveling around the world. And,

451
00:15:38,164 --> 00:15:39,785
you know, even back, you know,

452
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:43,190
in the Greece, BC's, I talk about that

453
00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:44,490
in my speeches where

454
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:47,029
the explorers of ancient times went out in

455
00:15:47,029 --> 00:15:47,529
the

456
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:50,169
what we know out in the Mediterranean Sea.

457
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:51,990
I mean they didn't know if they were

458
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:52,490
gonna

459
00:15:53,164 --> 00:15:55,345
run into sea monsters or

460
00:15:56,125 --> 00:15:57,565
you know an enemy they were gonna have

461
00:15:57,565 --> 00:15:59,164
to fight. Maybe they'd fall off the edge

462
00:15:59,164 --> 00:16:01,424
of the earth. But they had the

463
00:16:01,964 --> 00:16:02,464
the

464
00:16:03,164 --> 00:16:05,404
bravery to go and explore. And I think

465
00:16:05,404 --> 00:16:07,024
that's something in the human

466
00:16:07,804 --> 00:16:08,304
race,

467
00:16:08,789 --> 00:16:12,149
us species probably better. Something about us is

468
00:16:12,149 --> 00:16:12,649
humans

469
00:16:13,429 --> 00:16:14,169
that there's

470
00:16:14,549 --> 00:16:16,649
people that want to go out and

471
00:16:16,950 --> 00:16:18,250
learn new things

472
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:21,209
and see what's out there and understand it.

473
00:16:21,455 --> 00:16:23,774
We're doing that today. As physicists, you know,

474
00:16:23,774 --> 00:16:25,475
we're doing that today with instruments,

475
00:16:27,215 --> 00:16:28,195
which I also

476
00:16:28,575 --> 00:16:30,174
like to talk to young people about that.

477
00:16:30,174 --> 00:16:31,534
No. It's a lovely thing, isn't it? I

478
00:16:31,615 --> 00:16:34,174
I'm I'm wondering about the settling there though

479
00:16:34,174 --> 00:16:35,235
because of the exploration.

480
00:16:36,409 --> 00:16:38,490
Do you feel like we should settle on

481
00:16:38,490 --> 00:16:41,129
Mars just should humanity move there in in

482
00:16:41,129 --> 00:16:41,870
some form?

483
00:16:43,209 --> 00:16:44,110
Yes. Definitely.

484
00:16:44,889 --> 00:16:47,149
I think that's an easy argument to make.

485
00:16:47,690 --> 00:16:49,949
We can see that the earth is

486
00:16:50,875 --> 00:16:53,214
limited size, limited resources,

487
00:16:53,914 --> 00:16:55,214
population is growing.

488
00:16:55,995 --> 00:16:57,294
And we need to,

489
00:16:58,394 --> 00:17:00,634
as Elon Musk says, I'm going to credit

490
00:17:00,634 --> 00:17:04,015
him you know, become a multi planet species.

491
00:17:04,850 --> 00:17:07,350
We don't have the ability to travel

492
00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:09,190
that

493
00:17:09,650 --> 00:17:11,430
far and that fast right now.

494
00:17:11,809 --> 00:17:13,109
But I believe that

495
00:17:13,570 --> 00:17:14,309
just as

496
00:17:15,809 --> 00:17:18,230
the airplane was invented,

497
00:17:19,345 --> 00:17:21,045
You can go as far back as

498
00:17:21,424 --> 00:17:22,644
the wheel was invented,

499
00:17:23,265 --> 00:17:24,005
the boat,

500
00:17:25,424 --> 00:17:26,805
the airplane, cars.

501
00:17:27,585 --> 00:17:28,085
Someday

502
00:17:28,465 --> 00:17:31,125
so right now, space travel is chemical propulsion.

503
00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:34,680
I believe that someday someone will discover or

504
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:35,180
invent

505
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,480
a way to travel that is much faster

506
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:38,700
than what we have today.

507
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,420
And when we find another planet

508
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:43,580
like Earth

509
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,120
that we haven't really we haven't really found

510
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:47,500
yet, but I believe that

511
00:17:48,095 --> 00:17:49,234
we will someday.

512
00:17:50,174 --> 00:17:52,275
We will find a way to travel there.

513
00:17:53,134 --> 00:17:55,134
But we're just the steps we're taking now

514
00:17:55,134 --> 00:17:57,055
are very, very baby steps. And I don't

515
00:17:57,055 --> 00:17:59,455
think I'll be alive to see travel to

516
00:17:59,455 --> 00:18:01,775
another planet like earth, obviously. I think we're

517
00:18:01,775 --> 00:18:03,315
going very far in the future.

518
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:04,490
But

519
00:18:05,109 --> 00:18:07,130
I really believe that we will find

520
00:18:07,509 --> 00:18:09,750
something out there like earth that we could

521
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:10,490
live on.

522
00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:13,529
Hannah, would if if you're not the explorer,

523
00:18:13,670 --> 00:18:15,750
would you settle? I am the explorer just

524
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:16,835
not the place.

525
00:18:17,294 --> 00:18:20,355
Okay. Fair enough. I like exploring people's lives.

526
00:18:20,974 --> 00:18:24,115
Of course. Would you move to another planet?

527
00:18:24,174 --> 00:18:26,015
If that if that option was there, would

528
00:18:26,015 --> 00:18:27,154
you take that

529
00:18:27,534 --> 00:18:29,910
plan? No. No. Why not? I don't know.

530
00:18:29,910 --> 00:18:31,670
I've got a strange view of it all.

531
00:18:31,670 --> 00:18:33,430
As a sort of person who doesn't know

532
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:36,090
anything about whether we could settle somewhere else,

533
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:37,610
I feel like I don't even

534
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:40,150
if this doesn't sound too weird, I don't

535
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:42,309
mind if humans are a blip in time

536
00:18:42,309 --> 00:18:42,809
either

537
00:18:43,269 --> 00:18:46,044
and if we're just gone, because that's what

538
00:18:46,044 --> 00:18:48,605
happens, I don't want that to happen. But

539
00:18:48,605 --> 00:18:49,424
if it does,

540
00:18:49,804 --> 00:18:51,804
so be it. I don't know. I was

541
00:18:51,804 --> 00:18:53,565
always interested in physics when I was a

542
00:18:53,565 --> 00:18:55,644
kid and then I stopped being, you know,

543
00:18:55,644 --> 00:18:57,980
I went into humanities instead, but I always

544
00:18:57,980 --> 00:18:59,900
find it really frustrating that I couldn't

545
00:19:01,259 --> 00:19:03,259
you know, the the idea of infinite and

546
00:19:03,259 --> 00:19:04,779
where well, you can put your hands in

547
00:19:04,779 --> 00:19:06,299
it and where's an edge. And if there's

548
00:19:06,299 --> 00:19:07,900
no edge, how does that even I couldn't

549
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:09,500
envisage it, and it got so annoying. I

550
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:11,200
didn't even want to think about it anymore.

551
00:19:12,380 --> 00:19:13,200
And maybe

552
00:19:13,765 --> 00:19:16,984
it's beyond the realms of my comprehension that

553
00:19:17,204 --> 00:19:19,065
that could happen. So I just

554
00:19:19,765 --> 00:19:21,544
I just can't imagine it. No.

555
00:19:22,644 --> 00:19:25,204
That's Eileen, when you're in space and you're

556
00:19:25,204 --> 00:19:27,044
looking out of the the shuttle window, are

557
00:19:27,044 --> 00:19:29,089
are you do you spend most of your

558
00:19:29,089 --> 00:19:30,849
time looking down at Earth, or do you

559
00:19:30,849 --> 00:19:32,529
look out to the stars as well? I

560
00:19:32,529 --> 00:19:33,589
would say 99.9

561
00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:35,750
looking down at Earth.

562
00:19:36,529 --> 00:19:38,529
I have looked out at the stars. But

563
00:19:38,529 --> 00:19:40,710
from where we are in low Earth orbit,

564
00:19:40,849 --> 00:19:43,429
the stars look very similar to

565
00:19:44,075 --> 00:19:45,674
the way they look from the surface of

566
00:19:45,674 --> 00:19:46,255
the Earth.

567
00:19:46,795 --> 00:19:49,275
With the exception, there's no atmosphere in space.

568
00:19:49,275 --> 00:19:51,595
So the stars don't twinkle. You know, sometimes

569
00:19:51,595 --> 00:19:52,795
on Earth, when you have a lot of

570
00:19:52,795 --> 00:19:54,894
humidity or clouds, you might see

571
00:19:55,275 --> 00:19:56,255
stars twinkle.

572
00:19:56,990 --> 00:19:58,990
You don't see that from space. They're very

573
00:19:58,990 --> 00:19:59,490
solid

574
00:20:01,789 --> 00:20:02,289
dots.

575
00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:05,410
But the earth is so compelling,

576
00:20:06,029 --> 00:20:08,430
so beautiful, so bright. Because you look at

577
00:20:08,430 --> 00:20:09,950
space it's all dark. And you look at

578
00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:12,130
the earth and the sun is shining on

579
00:20:12,855 --> 00:20:15,595
deserts and clouds very, very bright.

580
00:20:16,295 --> 00:20:18,615
And then the ocean the blue ocean sort

581
00:20:18,615 --> 00:20:21,095
of medium. And then the times when you

582
00:20:21,095 --> 00:20:21,835
see land,

583
00:20:24,295 --> 00:20:26,549
it's it's not desert. Let's say a

584
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:29,990
jungle. It's very kind of a subdued green

585
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:30,490
color.

586
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:32,250
But

587
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:33,289
it's

588
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:37,049
just beautiful watching the earth turn below you.

589
00:20:37,670 --> 00:20:38,170
And

590
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:40,484
when I like to play the little game,

591
00:20:40,484 --> 00:20:42,244
like, I look out the window, what is

592
00:20:42,244 --> 00:20:42,744
that?

593
00:20:44,005 --> 00:20:46,265
What am I looking at? What continent or,

594
00:20:46,725 --> 00:20:48,565
you know, what portion of a continent am

595
00:20:48,565 --> 00:20:50,164
I looking at? And then I try to

596
00:20:50,164 --> 00:20:52,325
pick out cities. At night, it's a lot

597
00:20:52,325 --> 00:20:54,345
easier because cities are so bright.

598
00:20:54,839 --> 00:20:57,420
But it's fascinating to think about the people

599
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:58,460
down there.

600
00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:00,700
And I would think about

601
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,960
the billions of people on earth. Every person

602
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:04,779
has problems,

603
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:07,179
and every person has

604
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:08,779
happiness and sadness.

605
00:21:09,805 --> 00:21:11,585
And I think about all the energy

606
00:21:12,285 --> 00:21:14,144
in the people on earth.

607
00:21:14,924 --> 00:21:16,705
I mean, it's it's just mind blowing.

608
00:21:17,244 --> 00:21:20,065
And I'll see cities that are very historic

609
00:21:20,125 --> 00:21:20,945
like Jerusalem,

610
00:21:21,325 --> 00:21:23,644
very historic city, and what's going on down

611
00:21:23,644 --> 00:21:25,169
there. And when I look at Europe, I

612
00:21:25,169 --> 00:21:27,089
think about all the history that took place

613
00:21:27,089 --> 00:21:27,750
in Europe

614
00:21:29,409 --> 00:21:29,909
and

615
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:34,210
how people move around the planet, how people

616
00:21:34,210 --> 00:21:36,369
migrate. And, you know, what happened over the

617
00:21:36,369 --> 00:21:37,349
course of history,

618
00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:39,269
it really has made me

619
00:21:39,984 --> 00:21:40,484
very

620
00:21:41,345 --> 00:21:43,924
interested in traveling and reading history.

621
00:21:44,224 --> 00:21:46,565
I was never a history buff until after

622
00:21:47,105 --> 00:21:49,105
I retired from the astronaut program, and I

623
00:21:49,105 --> 00:21:50,944
said, I wanna read about these places that

624
00:21:50,944 --> 00:21:53,160
I saw from space. Yeah. That's cool. And

625
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,080
now I just I read history books all

626
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,160
the time. Oh, that's really cool. Now when

627
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,600
I was a kid, I used to read

628
00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,420
science fiction.

629
00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:02,519
I read Isaac Asimov and Arthur Clark, and

630
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:04,759
I just loved science sci fi. I was

631
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:06,855
a sci fi nut. I don't read sci

632
00:22:06,855 --> 00:22:08,474
fi anymore. I read history.

633
00:22:09,174 --> 00:22:10,855
When I was young, I read about the

634
00:22:10,855 --> 00:22:12,615
future. And now that I'm old, I read

635
00:22:12,615 --> 00:22:13,515
about the past.

636
00:22:14,214 --> 00:22:16,055
That's what I tell people now because I

637
00:22:16,055 --> 00:22:18,375
encourage people to read books. Put your phone

638
00:22:18,375 --> 00:22:20,730
down. It's making I tell people kids. I

639
00:22:20,730 --> 00:22:22,509
tell them your phone's making you stupid

640
00:22:23,049 --> 00:22:24,730
and books will make you smart. I have

641
00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:25,470
to read books.

642
00:22:26,250 --> 00:22:26,750
Very

643
00:22:27,450 --> 00:22:28,750
very good for you.

644
00:22:29,450 --> 00:22:31,930
I did because you were commander of the

645
00:22:31,930 --> 00:22:34,865
space shuttle. Right? Which is just extraordinary.

646
00:22:35,164 --> 00:22:37,164
Yeah. How much time off do you get

647
00:22:37,164 --> 00:22:39,724
as a commander when you're on mission? On

648
00:22:39,724 --> 00:22:41,825
the space shuttle, we really,

649
00:22:42,684 --> 00:22:44,785
didn't really have any time off because

650
00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,940
is for me as commander, I'm constantly responsible

651
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,819
for the safety of my crew and responsible

652
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,940
that the mission everything is mission, mission, mission.

653
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,160
We gotta get the mission done. And then

654
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,240
you've got, of course, the umbrella of we

655
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:00,380
need to do it safely.

656
00:23:00,775 --> 00:23:03,674
And I've always been concerned with my crew.

657
00:23:03,734 --> 00:23:04,394
Are they

658
00:23:05,974 --> 00:23:09,095
feeling healthy? How have they adapted to zero

659
00:23:09,095 --> 00:23:09,595
gravity?

660
00:23:11,095 --> 00:23:13,815
I would ask my crew every day, how

661
00:23:13,815 --> 00:23:14,474
are you doing?

662
00:23:15,059 --> 00:23:16,440
If you need help with something,

663
00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:19,779
we can rearrange the schedule up here. Because

664
00:23:19,779 --> 00:23:22,339
people tend to get behind because problems things

665
00:23:22,339 --> 00:23:24,819
break and problems happen up there, and we

666
00:23:24,819 --> 00:23:26,440
have to jiggle things around.

667
00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:29,295
So I never really had any time off.

668
00:23:29,535 --> 00:23:32,335
Now technically, on the schedule, everyone is scheduled

669
00:23:32,335 --> 00:23:34,835
8 hours. It's back in the shuttle days.

670
00:23:35,295 --> 00:23:37,455
Everyone has 8 hours of sleep, but very

671
00:23:37,455 --> 00:23:39,715
few people took 8 hours because

672
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:43,890
we would normally have

673
00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:46,430
2 hours of like, you'd wake up. It

674
00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:48,029
was supposed to be 3 hours, but it

675
00:23:48,029 --> 00:23:49,870
was never 3 hours. You'd wake up. You

676
00:23:49,870 --> 00:23:51,630
would have 2 hours of what's called post

677
00:23:51,630 --> 00:23:54,269
sleep. And that's when you eat, brush your

678
00:23:54,269 --> 00:23:57,494
teeth, get your clothes ready, read your email,

679
00:23:58,035 --> 00:23:59,634
and then you'd work all day. You get

680
00:23:59,634 --> 00:24:01,815
an hour off for lunch, 30 minutes maybe.

681
00:24:02,035 --> 00:24:03,394
And then before you go to bed, you'd

682
00:24:03,394 --> 00:24:06,275
have pre sleep 2 hours. Well, everybody worked

683
00:24:06,275 --> 00:24:08,835
right into their pre sleep because something broke

684
00:24:08,835 --> 00:24:10,855
or you're helping one of your crew members.

685
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,049
And then you'd end up going to sleep

686
00:24:13,049 --> 00:24:13,549
late.

687
00:24:14,089 --> 00:24:15,690
So I don't know if we ever really

688
00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:17,849
had any time off. Now in the shuttle

689
00:24:17,849 --> 00:24:19,849
days, if your flight was only 12 days

690
00:24:19,849 --> 00:24:22,670
or 15 days, you could barrel through that.

691
00:24:23,164 --> 00:24:25,085
Today on the space station, they're up there

692
00:24:25,085 --> 00:24:27,085
for 6 months or a year. So today's

693
00:24:27,085 --> 00:24:28,384
astronauts on the station

694
00:24:29,085 --> 00:24:31,244
do get more time off. My first flight,

695
00:24:31,244 --> 00:24:32,845
I don't think I looked out the window

696
00:24:32,845 --> 00:24:35,404
very much at all because I was adapting

697
00:24:35,404 --> 00:24:37,265
to space and trying to catch up.

698
00:24:37,740 --> 00:24:39,660
And it was February, and it was cloudy.

699
00:24:39,660 --> 00:24:41,660
And it was just a kind of a

700
00:24:41,660 --> 00:24:42,160
bad,

701
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:45,099
ground track over the Earth. But my second

702
00:24:45,099 --> 00:24:47,740
flight was in May, and it was gorgeous.

703
00:24:47,740 --> 00:24:49,259
And I was at the window a lot

704
00:24:49,259 --> 00:24:49,755
more.

705
00:24:50,234 --> 00:24:51,994
So it it kind of varies. That's the

706
00:24:51,994 --> 00:24:53,714
commanding side of it is, you know, you

707
00:24:53,835 --> 00:24:54,894
you're on completely

708
00:24:55,434 --> 00:24:56,954
all the time. As a pilot, is it

709
00:24:56,954 --> 00:24:58,634
the same I I feel like when you're

710
00:24:58,634 --> 00:25:00,234
taking off, there's not much you can do

711
00:25:00,234 --> 00:25:02,255
as a pilot. Am I wrong on that?

712
00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:03,299
So,

713
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:05,779
yeah, in today's

714
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:07,220
Dragon capsule,

715
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,220
it's fully automated. They don't they don't fly.

716
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:12,559
And they don't really

717
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:13,539
honestly,

718
00:25:14,494 --> 00:25:15,695
they may need to come up with a

719
00:25:15,695 --> 00:25:17,775
better name than pilot because you're not really

720
00:25:17,775 --> 00:25:18,275
piloting

721
00:25:19,055 --> 00:25:22,494
in today's capsules like the Starliner or the

722
00:25:22,494 --> 00:25:24,434
Dragon or even the Russian Soyuz.

723
00:25:25,055 --> 00:25:26,195
Although I will say

724
00:25:27,019 --> 00:25:29,179
scratch the Soyuz because they do have some

725
00:25:29,179 --> 00:25:30,720
piloting skills for rendezvous.

726
00:25:31,419 --> 00:25:33,679
Now, on the space shuttle, we actually flew

727
00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:36,380
the space shuttle during rendezvous. We hand flew

728
00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:38,700
it. And we had 6 degrees of freedom

729
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:41,055
with our thrust hand controller and our rotational

730
00:25:41,055 --> 00:25:44,095
hand controller. We flew the rendezvous. We also

731
00:25:44,095 --> 00:25:46,115
flew the landing. Every shuttle landing

732
00:25:46,734 --> 00:25:49,555
was landed by hand manually by the commander.

733
00:25:51,390 --> 00:25:53,970
Nowadays, they splash down and there's no

734
00:25:54,349 --> 00:25:54,849
landing.

735
00:25:57,070 --> 00:25:57,570
So

736
00:25:58,269 --> 00:26:00,109
the other thing in the shuttle days is

737
00:26:00,109 --> 00:26:02,109
many of the tasks that we had to

738
00:26:02,109 --> 00:26:04,529
do were also manual. For example,

739
00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:06,369
after main engine cutoff,

740
00:26:07,204 --> 00:26:09,684
we had to tie 2 main buses together.

741
00:26:09,684 --> 00:26:11,625
That was done by the pilot with switches.

742
00:26:11,924 --> 00:26:14,164
We had to vent and purge the main

743
00:26:14,164 --> 00:26:15,144
propulsion system.

744
00:26:16,325 --> 00:26:19,285
We had to manually operate heaters for the

745
00:26:19,285 --> 00:26:19,785
cryogenics

746
00:26:20,690 --> 00:26:22,390
and manage fuel cells.

747
00:26:23,009 --> 00:26:24,230
And that was done manually.

748
00:26:24,529 --> 00:26:26,690
Today, it's the computers do the whole thing.

749
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:29,490
And that's that's good because it frees up

750
00:26:29,490 --> 00:26:31,569
more time for the astronauts to do science

751
00:26:31,569 --> 00:26:32,069
experiments.

752
00:26:33,565 --> 00:26:35,644
And we have the technology today to do

753
00:26:35,644 --> 00:26:37,484
that. And all those things we learned through

754
00:26:37,484 --> 00:26:39,644
the shuttle program, we learned what needed to

755
00:26:39,644 --> 00:26:41,325
be automated and how it needed to be

756
00:26:41,325 --> 00:26:45,005
done. And so today's spacecraft are benefiting from

757
00:26:45,005 --> 00:26:46,704
what we did in the shuttle days.

758
00:26:47,029 --> 00:26:48,490
I hope that answers your

759
00:26:48,869 --> 00:26:50,549
your question. And that's not to be I'm

760
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:51,289
not criticizing

761
00:26:51,829 --> 00:26:53,289
today's space. It's

762
00:26:53,829 --> 00:26:55,210
it's the way it should be.

763
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:58,809
Yeah. But there's there's still the need for

764
00:26:59,109 --> 00:27:01,349
somebody to be able to pilot a craft

765
00:27:01,349 --> 00:27:02,684
like as I'm thinking of,

766
00:27:03,325 --> 00:27:05,325
Neil Armstrong landing on the moon. He needed

767
00:27:05,325 --> 00:27:07,164
to take control. You needed to take control

768
00:27:07,164 --> 00:27:07,664
to

769
00:27:08,045 --> 00:27:09,965
flip. Can you tell us about that flipping

770
00:27:09,965 --> 00:27:12,445
the the shuttle route? The RPM, the rendezvous,

771
00:27:12,445 --> 00:27:13,424
pitcheron maneuver,

772
00:27:13,805 --> 00:27:15,565
it was done first time on,

773
00:27:16,045 --> 00:27:17,105
STS 114

774
00:27:17,859 --> 00:27:18,679
in 2005.

775
00:27:19,299 --> 00:27:21,139
That was my last flight. It was the

776
00:27:21,139 --> 00:27:23,480
flight after the Columbia accident.

777
00:27:24,019 --> 00:27:25,880
The accident happened in 2003.

778
00:27:27,059 --> 00:27:28,339
My crew was the first to go up

779
00:27:28,339 --> 00:27:29,865
after the accident. And,

780
00:27:30,424 --> 00:27:32,444
It was suggested by the rendezvous

781
00:27:32,984 --> 00:27:33,484
engineers

782
00:27:33,944 --> 00:27:35,724
that we do the splipper on maneuver,

783
00:27:36,424 --> 00:27:38,664
which is basically turn the shuttle upside down

784
00:27:38,664 --> 00:27:40,505
so the crew above us on the space

785
00:27:40,505 --> 00:27:43,720
station could photograph our heat shield to see

786
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:44,700
if there was damage.

787
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,099
And we developed that procedure,

788
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,179
the astronaut office,

789
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:52,220
with the rendezvous engineers.

790
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:54,779
My crew practiced it in the simulator.

791
00:27:55,634 --> 00:27:56,375
And we

792
00:27:57,075 --> 00:27:58,375
tweaked it. And

793
00:27:58,914 --> 00:28:00,835
we ended up being the 1st crew to

794
00:28:00,835 --> 00:28:03,315
fly that. We were when we actually flew

795
00:28:03,315 --> 00:28:05,154
it, we were 600 feet below. Like, you

796
00:28:05,154 --> 00:28:07,154
come up from below. Right? So we stopped

797
00:28:07,154 --> 00:28:09,174
at 600 feet below the space station.

798
00:28:09,580 --> 00:28:11,580
We're standing by for the beginning of this

799
00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:13,740
rendezvous pitch maneuver. It's due to begin at

800
00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:14,240
12:15

801
00:28:14,539 --> 00:28:15,440
PM CST.

802
00:28:16,460 --> 00:28:18,000
Just a few minutes from now,

803
00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:20,320
you can see the, shadow of the

804
00:28:21,674 --> 00:28:24,335
spacecraft beginning to, creep up there on Discovery's

805
00:28:24,394 --> 00:28:27,035
right wing. Basically, we were flipping around the,

806
00:28:27,595 --> 00:28:28,414
y axis.

807
00:28:30,555 --> 00:28:32,575
And the whole thing took about 6 minutes.

808
00:28:33,515 --> 00:28:34,015
And

809
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,839
the 2, well, the astronaut, the cosmonaut on

810
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:39,700
the space station photographed us.

811
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,940
And then we

812
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,700
continued on with our rendezvous

813
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,339
and came in and docked.

814
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,799
So again, the purpose of it was to

815
00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:49,299
photograph

816
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:50,099
the,

817
00:28:51,615 --> 00:28:54,335
the tiles and the leading edge of the

818
00:28:54,335 --> 00:28:55,634
shuttle wing underneath.

819
00:28:56,015 --> 00:28:58,174
Because Columbia, I won't go into the Columbia

820
00:28:58,174 --> 00:29:00,195
accident now, but that's where they had damage

821
00:29:00,335 --> 00:29:01,934
and there was no way to see that

822
00:29:01,934 --> 00:29:03,555
damage on the Columbia flight.

823
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:05,820
So on my flight on discovery 2 years

824
00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:08,220
later, we didn't want that to happen again.

825
00:29:08,220 --> 00:29:09,840
So we developed that RPM.

826
00:29:11,660 --> 00:29:13,259
How do you know how to do that?

827
00:29:13,259 --> 00:29:14,880
I mean, it's a slightly silly question.

828
00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:16,480
No. We have a simulator.

829
00:29:16,785 --> 00:29:18,325
So we we have a simulator.

830
00:29:18,945 --> 00:29:20,945
So first of all, we have analysis. So

831
00:29:20,945 --> 00:29:23,265
you the engineers do their analysis and they're

832
00:29:23,265 --> 00:29:26,404
like, well, we have, you know, this much,

833
00:29:27,424 --> 00:29:30,000
momentum. This is what they know what orbital

834
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,000
mechanics are doing. They know,

835
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,259
they're solid equations and,

836
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:37,360
basically data from the past. So we understand

837
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,860
orbital mechanics. So they would do their analysis.

838
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,500
Can this be done? The answer was yes.

839
00:29:42,634 --> 00:29:45,035
So then we wrote procedures for it. And

840
00:29:45,035 --> 00:29:47,215
we went in the simulator and practiced it.

841
00:29:47,755 --> 00:29:50,394
And we saw where the tough areas were,

842
00:29:50,394 --> 00:29:52,015
where the problem areas were.

843
00:29:52,475 --> 00:29:55,134
And we would develop workarounds for that

844
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,880
based on what the capability of the shuttle

845
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:58,380
was.

846
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,220
So although

847
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,240
we hand I flew hand fluid as the

848
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,240
commander with this the whole crew worked on

849
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,799
this. Everyone had their like my pilot was

850
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:10,120
reading the checklist, keeping everybody on schedule. We

851
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:10,860
had somebody

852
00:30:11,605 --> 00:30:14,265
working the laptop, computer, the lasers,

853
00:30:16,565 --> 00:30:18,325
cameras. And so we all worked together as

854
00:30:18,325 --> 00:30:18,904
a crew.

855
00:30:19,765 --> 00:30:21,924
But a portion of it was flown on

856
00:30:21,924 --> 00:30:22,424
autopilot.

857
00:30:23,044 --> 00:30:25,204
So, for example, if this is the station,

858
00:30:25,204 --> 00:30:26,644
we come up from below. We stop at

859
00:30:26,644 --> 00:30:29,170
600 feet. So I hand flew all that.

860
00:30:29,549 --> 00:30:31,710
Once we were in position, I hit the

861
00:30:31,710 --> 00:30:32,210
autopilot.

862
00:30:32,670 --> 00:30:35,789
And the whole 6 minute maneuver was flown

863
00:30:35,789 --> 00:30:38,190
with the autopilot on. So we all went

864
00:30:38,190 --> 00:30:39,009
to the restroom

865
00:30:40,194 --> 00:30:42,034
because it was so long. And then you

866
00:30:42,034 --> 00:30:43,154
come back up at the end of the

867
00:30:43,154 --> 00:30:43,894
6 minutes.

868
00:30:46,194 --> 00:30:48,134
I took manual control back

869
00:30:48,434 --> 00:30:49,494
and I flew

870
00:30:49,954 --> 00:30:52,595
the what we call a transition to the

871
00:30:52,595 --> 00:30:55,319
v bar, which is the velocity vector.

872
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,099
And then we'd be at about 400 feet

873
00:30:58,099 --> 00:31:00,099
and then you'd come in. We would fly

874
00:31:00,099 --> 00:31:01,960
our normal hop down the v bar

875
00:31:02,339 --> 00:31:03,319
and we eventually

876
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:06,339
gradually break and slow down. And we docked

877
00:31:06,339 --> 00:31:08,119
at 0.2 feet per second.

878
00:31:08,714 --> 00:31:10,794
So the docking and by the way, everything

879
00:31:10,794 --> 00:31:13,355
was in English units back in the shuttle

880
00:31:13,355 --> 00:31:16,075
days. And now they're using metric units on

881
00:31:16,075 --> 00:31:18,255
the space station. But we did everything

882
00:31:18,714 --> 00:31:21,275
in English units in shuttle. How different does

883
00:31:21,275 --> 00:31:23,835
it feel piloting the shuttle in space as

884
00:31:23,835 --> 00:31:24,335
opposed

885
00:31:24,869 --> 00:31:27,210
to the simulator? Is it very close?

886
00:31:27,509 --> 00:31:30,890
It's very close. It's very close. It yes.

887
00:31:31,589 --> 00:31:34,230
We can tweak the simulator. So the astronauts

888
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:35,990
would come back from the early flights and

889
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:36,490
say,

890
00:31:37,174 --> 00:31:39,595
it didn't actually behave like that. Maybe change

891
00:31:40,054 --> 00:31:42,134
the gains a little bit. Maybe change the

892
00:31:42,134 --> 00:31:43,434
timing in these

893
00:31:44,934 --> 00:31:46,154
so I would say

894
00:31:46,775 --> 00:31:48,154
it was it was

895
00:31:48,934 --> 00:31:49,994
better than 95%

896
00:31:51,549 --> 00:31:52,609
accurately simulated

897
00:31:53,549 --> 00:31:55,490
on the ground. So there were no surprises

898
00:31:56,349 --> 00:31:58,769
flying the rendezvous. It's a little bit different

899
00:31:58,830 --> 00:31:59,650
on the landing.

900
00:32:00,029 --> 00:32:01,890
So we have a separate simulator,

901
00:32:03,244 --> 00:32:05,805
a Gulfstream 2 airplane that we use to

902
00:32:05,805 --> 00:32:06,305
simulate

903
00:32:06,684 --> 00:32:07,744
the shuttle landings.

904
00:32:08,525 --> 00:32:09,505
There were little,

905
00:32:10,045 --> 00:32:11,505
I would say, there were some

906
00:32:11,805 --> 00:32:14,445
differences there depending on your weight and center

907
00:32:14,445 --> 00:32:15,805
of gravity. And I don't want to get

908
00:32:15,805 --> 00:32:17,184
too technical there. But

909
00:32:17,565 --> 00:32:18,305
I think

910
00:32:18,890 --> 00:32:20,029
being a test pilot,

911
00:32:21,210 --> 00:32:22,429
I had to make some,

912
00:32:23,289 --> 00:32:24,649
I want to say things that I had

913
00:32:24,649 --> 00:32:26,349
learned from being a test pilot.

914
00:32:27,769 --> 00:32:28,909
Real time corrections

915
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:31,309
making the transition from the simulator

916
00:32:31,609 --> 00:32:32,669
to the actual

917
00:32:33,805 --> 00:32:34,705
shuttle landing.

918
00:32:35,725 --> 00:32:36,865
Without going into

919
00:32:37,725 --> 00:32:38,865
a lot of technical

920
00:32:39,244 --> 00:32:40,144
mumbo jumbo,

921
00:32:41,565 --> 00:32:43,345
I think there was a lot of feel.

922
00:32:43,484 --> 00:32:45,424
And I used to tell other

923
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:47,200
potential,

924
00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:50,160
upcoming shuttle commanders that were going to land,

925
00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:52,880
be careful using your feel.

926
00:32:53,740 --> 00:32:55,339
You can do that in an airplane. You

927
00:32:55,339 --> 00:32:57,259
can feel your way through a landing based

928
00:32:57,259 --> 00:32:59,605
on what you've landed in the past. The

929
00:32:59,605 --> 00:33:01,845
problem coming back from space is your body

930
00:33:01,845 --> 00:33:02,585
has changed.

931
00:33:03,605 --> 00:33:05,684
We've been up in zero gravity. Your face

932
00:33:05,684 --> 00:33:07,065
has been full of

933
00:33:07,365 --> 00:33:09,845
fluids, and you've kind of adjusted to being

934
00:33:09,845 --> 00:33:11,365
in space. And as you come back to

935
00:33:11,365 --> 00:33:13,784
earth and you get this gravity field,

936
00:33:14,980 --> 00:33:17,220
all the fluids are pulled back down. You're

937
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:19,140
sitting down. Obviously, you have a g suit

938
00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:21,299
on. The g suit helps keep those fluids

939
00:33:21,299 --> 00:33:22,679
from pooling in your legs.

940
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:25,940
But you're still you're you're still are losing

941
00:33:25,940 --> 00:33:27,559
some fluids up here. So

942
00:33:28,445 --> 00:33:30,785
you have to use your eyes to land.

943
00:33:31,805 --> 00:33:33,505
And I have always been very,

944
00:33:34,204 --> 00:33:36,365
I want to say, focusing on using my

945
00:33:36,365 --> 00:33:37,345
eyes and

946
00:33:37,724 --> 00:33:38,865
not using my

947
00:33:39,404 --> 00:33:41,105
traditional pilot feel.

948
00:33:42,140 --> 00:33:44,539
And using my eyes, meaning the heads up

949
00:33:44,539 --> 00:33:45,039
display,

950
00:33:45,579 --> 00:33:48,960
the PAPI lights, which are precision approach indicator

951
00:33:49,099 --> 00:33:51,740
lights, the ball bar, which helps us stay

952
00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:53,659
on glide slope, and all of these landing

953
00:33:53,659 --> 00:33:54,159
aids,

954
00:33:54,460 --> 00:33:55,919
you have to be very

955
00:33:57,315 --> 00:33:59,255
visual and very procedural,

956
00:33:59,714 --> 00:34:01,634
and you can't really feel your way through

957
00:34:01,634 --> 00:34:03,734
the landing like you can in a airplane.

958
00:34:04,514 --> 00:34:05,575
Houston discovery.

959
00:34:06,034 --> 00:34:06,934
Wheel stop.

960
00:34:08,675 --> 00:34:11,760
Roger, wheel stop. Discovery, and congratulations

961
00:34:12,139 --> 00:34:14,799
on a truly spectacular test flight.

962
00:34:15,339 --> 00:34:16,960
Stevie Ray, Suicci,

963
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:19,119
Andy, Vegas, Charlie, Wendy,

964
00:34:19,579 --> 00:34:20,319
and Eileen,

965
00:34:20,619 --> 00:34:21,760
welcome home, friends.

966
00:34:23,775 --> 00:34:25,454
And thank you. Those are great words to

967
00:34:25,454 --> 00:34:27,135
hear. We're happy to be back, and we

968
00:34:27,135 --> 00:34:29,855
congratulate the whole team for a job well

969
00:34:29,855 --> 00:34:32,034
done. We're going to page 5 dash 3.

970
00:34:32,335 --> 00:34:33,554
And we'll meet you there.

971
00:34:34,255 --> 00:34:36,974
An an experience that very few people have.

972
00:34:36,974 --> 00:34:39,769
But what what what are the main or

973
00:34:39,769 --> 00:34:41,690
the main lesson that you would like to

974
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:43,690
give to us here on Earth that you

975
00:34:43,690 --> 00:34:46,809
learned in space? Reading books about science fiction

976
00:34:46,809 --> 00:34:49,210
is very important, I think, because it tells

977
00:34:49,210 --> 00:34:50,510
us what can be.

978
00:34:51,025 --> 00:34:53,364
What what can the future

979
00:34:53,744 --> 00:34:55,045
possibilities be?

980
00:34:55,744 --> 00:34:57,505
Read books. I'm reading a book now on

981
00:34:57,505 --> 00:34:58,644
artificial intelligence

982
00:34:58,945 --> 00:35:01,585
and and, which is more near term than

983
00:35:01,585 --> 00:35:03,344
what I'm reading. But I've also read far

984
00:35:03,344 --> 00:35:03,844
term

985
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:06,920
artificial intelligence who read different authors

986
00:35:07,619 --> 00:35:10,280
and don't ever think something can't be done.

987
00:35:10,579 --> 00:35:12,260
Maybe it can't be done in our lifetime,

988
00:35:12,260 --> 00:35:14,099
but they but y'all need to be like

989
00:35:14,099 --> 00:35:15,699
setting the scenes for what can happen in

990
00:35:15,699 --> 00:35:16,760
the future. Brilliant.

991
00:35:17,264 --> 00:35:19,824
Hannah, what's your one lesson that you won't

992
00:35:19,824 --> 00:35:21,364
be able to take away from the film?

993
00:35:22,304 --> 00:35:24,164
However complicated it is,

994
00:35:24,464 --> 00:35:27,444
human endeavor is something to be applauded,

995
00:35:27,744 --> 00:35:28,724
and it's amazing.

996
00:35:29,664 --> 00:35:30,164
And,

997
00:35:31,089 --> 00:35:32,469
you know, it's inspiring,

998
00:35:33,329 --> 00:35:35,489
and it's tricky, and it should be. And

999
00:35:35,489 --> 00:35:37,250
that's that's part of what we like as,

1000
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:39,489
you know, as humans. We we want to

1001
00:35:39,489 --> 00:35:41,569
do things that aren't straightforward, and so it's

1002
00:35:41,569 --> 00:35:43,829
great to see Eileen do that. And,

1003
00:35:44,184 --> 00:35:44,844
you know,

1004
00:35:45,224 --> 00:35:47,484
I hope people learn a lot from watching

1005
00:35:47,545 --> 00:35:48,364
how that happened.

1006
00:35:49,065 --> 00:35:51,304
And see our film. See our film. You

1007
00:35:51,304 --> 00:35:53,864
will really love to see how someone like

1008
00:35:53,864 --> 00:35:56,264
Hannah who has who the creative mind and

1009
00:35:56,264 --> 00:35:58,284
me who's a more procedural mind,

1010
00:35:58,670 --> 00:35:59,809
how it came together

1011
00:36:00,110 --> 00:36:02,269
in in the film. I do recommend that

1012
00:36:02,269 --> 00:36:05,630
you see spacewoman directed by Hannah Berryman, which

1013
00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:07,570
does tell the story from

1014
00:36:07,869 --> 00:36:11,650
the humble beginnings of Eileen Collins to commanding

1015
00:36:12,110 --> 00:36:15,514
and piloting the space shuttle. It was incredibly

1016
00:36:15,574 --> 00:36:18,054
exciting. Right? You know, finally, we're seeing a

1017
00:36:18,054 --> 00:36:19,194
woman in the cockpit.

1018
00:36:20,694 --> 00:36:22,074
Come on. Come on. Come on.

1019
00:36:23,014 --> 00:36:25,514
There probably were some men in the astronaut

1020
00:36:25,574 --> 00:36:27,974
office who would have preferred not being on

1021
00:36:27,974 --> 00:36:28,679
those flights.

1022
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:32,199
The whole idea of having a woman with

1023
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:32,859
the controls

1024
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,639
was, at the time, hard for some at

1025
00:36:35,639 --> 00:36:36,780
NASA to digest.

1026
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,300
It's a mixture of archival footage and

1027
00:36:42,675 --> 00:36:44,375
beautifully shot new footage

1028
00:36:44,755 --> 00:36:47,335
along with some really insightful interviews

1029
00:36:47,635 --> 00:36:49,795
that tell the story not just of what

1030
00:36:49,795 --> 00:36:51,954
happened to Eileen in space, but some of

1031
00:36:51,954 --> 00:36:54,755
the dramas back here on earth, both in

1032
00:36:54,755 --> 00:36:56,375
the space program and

1033
00:36:56,699 --> 00:36:59,179
among her family. At the time of recording

1034
00:36:59,179 --> 00:36:59,920
this podcast,

1035
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,440
the discussions about the distribution of the film

1036
00:37:03,579 --> 00:37:05,500
are ongoing. But if you can't get to

1037
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:07,659
the world premiere this November at the New

1038
00:37:07,659 --> 00:37:09,280
York documentary festival,

1039
00:37:09,625 --> 00:37:10,445
doc NYC.

1040
00:37:11,305 --> 00:37:13,005
Then keep an eye on spacewoman.film

1041
00:37:14,344 --> 00:37:16,344
where you'll find all the latest information and

1042
00:37:16,344 --> 00:37:19,244
the links to social media for the film.

1043
00:37:19,545 --> 00:37:22,025
I'd like to thank Eileen Collins and Hannah

1044
00:37:22,025 --> 00:37:24,170
Behrman for talking to me. We'll be back

1045
00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:26,489
next month with something else from this wonderful

1046
00:37:26,489 --> 00:37:28,170
world of physics. I know some of you

1047
00:37:28,170 --> 00:37:30,829
may have been expecting something about Pele's tears.

1048
00:37:30,969 --> 00:37:32,650
We will bring you that in a future

1049
00:37:32,650 --> 00:37:34,730
episode. But for now, I'll leave you with

1050
00:37:34,730 --> 00:37:36,989
a short audio clip from the documentary,

1051
00:37:37,449 --> 00:37:39,554
Space Woman. The launch is gonna go shortly

1052
00:37:39,554 --> 00:37:40,295
after midnight.

1053
00:37:42,034 --> 00:37:44,215
I didn't eat anything because I thought

1054
00:37:44,755 --> 00:37:45,815
I might get sick.

1055
00:37:49,715 --> 00:37:51,394
The first eight and a half minutes, 90%

1056
00:37:51,394 --> 00:37:53,155
of your trolley goes out to me. That's

1057
00:37:53,155 --> 00:37:53,655
true.

1058
00:37:55,699 --> 00:37:57,800
Probably not on this one. On this one.

1059
00:37:59,139 --> 00:38:00,599
Maybe just a lower chest.

1060
00:38:03,699 --> 00:38:05,639
Looking at the shuttle at night,

1061
00:38:06,755 --> 00:38:08,215
it's just overwhelming

1062
00:38:08,675 --> 00:38:09,735
brilliant light.

1063
00:38:12,914 --> 00:38:15,155
It's one of the most incredible things that

1064
00:38:15,155 --> 00:38:16,135
I've ever seen.

1065
00:38:17,795 --> 00:38:19,889
And I'm thinking, I'm gonna launch on that

1066
00:38:19,969 --> 00:38:20,869
thing. Okay.

1067
00:38:31,809 --> 00:38:33,510
Watching the clock count down,

1068
00:38:33,969 --> 00:38:35,414
that's when your heart starts

1069
00:38:35,994 --> 00:38:36,494
beating.

1070
00:38:37,074 --> 00:38:40,194
Discovery crew OPC closing lock advisors and the

1071
00:38:40,194 --> 00:38:42,375
802 flow. Have a good flight.

1072
00:38:44,835 --> 00:38:46,694
And thank you very much for listening.