Quantum 2.0: Paul Davies on the next revolution in physics

1
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,359
Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Stories

2
00:00:05,359 --> 00:00:08,240
podcast. I'm Andrew Glessner. In this episode, I'm

3
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,500
joined by theoretical physicist, cosmologist,

4
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:12,740
and author Paul Davies

5
00:00:13,044 --> 00:00:13,785
to discuss

6
00:00:14,085 --> 00:00:17,045
amongst other things his new book, quantum two

7
00:00:17,045 --> 00:00:20,405
point o, the past, present, and future of

8
00:00:20,405 --> 00:00:21,385
quantum physics.

9
00:00:22,964 --> 00:00:25,524
Paul is a regents professor at Arizona State

10
00:00:25,524 --> 00:00:28,710
University where he directs the Beyond Center for

11
00:00:28,710 --> 00:00:31,670
Fundamental Concepts in Science, a place as he

12
00:00:31,670 --> 00:00:34,310
puts it for cool stuff. I have to

13
00:00:34,310 --> 00:00:36,149
say I agree with him on that and

14
00:00:36,149 --> 00:00:38,390
you will when we talk about that very

15
00:00:38,390 --> 00:00:40,994
shortly. But it tackles everything from the nature

16
00:00:41,075 --> 00:00:42,134
of time and consciousness

17
00:00:42,515 --> 00:00:45,174
to the origins of life and the universe

18
00:00:45,234 --> 00:00:45,734
itself.

19
00:00:48,674 --> 00:00:51,155
We're gonna explore what he calls the next

20
00:00:51,155 --> 00:00:52,454
great quantum revolution,

21
00:00:52,835 --> 00:00:53,814
quantum computing,

22
00:00:54,270 --> 00:00:54,770
teleportation,

23
00:00:55,390 --> 00:00:55,890
cryptography,

24
00:00:56,350 --> 00:00:57,090
and sensing.

25
00:00:57,549 --> 00:01:00,189
Along the way, we'll discuss why Schrodinger's equation

26
00:01:00,189 --> 00:01:02,909
remains so central and how quantum ideas are

27
00:01:02,909 --> 00:01:06,109
reshaping not just technology, but art, and what

28
00:01:06,109 --> 00:01:09,894
might happen when quantum information science meets artificial

29
00:01:10,114 --> 00:01:10,614
intelligence.

30
00:01:12,435 --> 00:01:13,894
From teleporting particles

31
00:01:14,275 --> 00:01:16,994
to the ethical challenges of AI and even

32
00:01:16,994 --> 00:01:19,655
quantum jazz, it's a wide ranging conversation,

33
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,799
and I began by asking him about the

34
00:01:22,799 --> 00:01:26,180
Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science.

35
00:01:28,239 --> 00:01:29,859
I went to ASU

36
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:31,995
in 2006,

37
00:01:32,555 --> 00:01:33,755
with a mission that,

38
00:01:34,314 --> 00:01:37,355
had a budget behind it, provided by the

39
00:01:37,355 --> 00:01:39,615
university president who's a great visionary.

40
00:01:40,555 --> 00:01:43,194
And the idea was to set up a

41
00:01:43,194 --> 00:01:45,755
center which is, small in terms of numbers

42
00:01:45,755 --> 00:01:47,459
of people, but big in terms of its

43
00:01:47,620 --> 00:01:48,120
agenda,

44
00:01:48,739 --> 00:01:49,239
to,

45
00:01:49,780 --> 00:01:53,239
dwell on foundational questions in in science across

46
00:01:53,299 --> 00:01:54,119
all the sciences.

47
00:01:55,299 --> 00:01:57,239
My profession is really

48
00:01:57,619 --> 00:01:58,119
physics,

49
00:01:58,739 --> 00:01:59,959
astrophysics, cosmology.

50
00:02:01,364 --> 00:02:02,504
But I've also

51
00:02:02,965 --> 00:02:04,104
worked in astrobiology,

52
00:02:04,484 --> 00:02:05,704
it's now now called,

53
00:02:06,084 --> 00:02:08,164
which touches on the problem, the origin of

54
00:02:08,164 --> 00:02:10,745
life, where physics and chemistry turns into biology,

55
00:02:11,444 --> 00:02:12,824
and the nature of consciousness,

56
00:02:13,764 --> 00:02:15,685
the nature of time, the origin of the

57
00:02:15,685 --> 00:02:16,185
universe,

58
00:02:17,009 --> 00:02:18,769
the place of human beings in the great

59
00:02:18,769 --> 00:02:20,289
cosmic scheme of things, you know, all of

60
00:02:20,289 --> 00:02:22,449
these sort of profound questions. The way I

61
00:02:22,449 --> 00:02:23,989
like to put it is that,

62
00:02:25,409 --> 00:02:26,229
it's really

63
00:02:26,609 --> 00:02:28,389
a center for cool stuff.

64
00:02:30,385 --> 00:02:32,865
So whatever people seem to be talking about

65
00:02:32,865 --> 00:02:35,105
at dinner parties, and at the moment, it

66
00:02:35,105 --> 00:02:37,605
seems to largely be AI, and is it

67
00:02:37,665 --> 00:02:39,905
intelligent, and is it conscious, and all those

68
00:02:39,905 --> 00:02:42,625
things, you know, we we pitch in, and

69
00:02:42,625 --> 00:02:44,064
we we do that. We have,

70
00:02:44,625 --> 00:02:47,530
a sort of in house research program, which

71
00:02:47,530 --> 00:02:49,370
is a subset of all the things I've

72
00:02:49,370 --> 00:02:51,150
mentioned, but we hold workshops,

73
00:02:51,770 --> 00:02:52,270
on

74
00:02:52,650 --> 00:02:54,510
anything that's pushing the boundaries.

75
00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:57,370
So if there's a subject that's struggling to

76
00:02:57,370 --> 00:02:58,110
get out,

77
00:02:58,634 --> 00:03:00,495
and, for example, quantum biology,

78
00:03:01,034 --> 00:03:02,555
is there such a thing? Can we take

79
00:03:02,555 --> 00:03:03,215
it seriously?

80
00:03:05,034 --> 00:03:07,194
That things like that, we like to zero

81
00:03:07,194 --> 00:03:10,074
in on and bring people together and say,

82
00:03:10,074 --> 00:03:12,334
well, can we turn this into a

83
00:03:12,979 --> 00:03:15,159
a proper discipline? Can we create

84
00:03:16,659 --> 00:03:17,159
research

85
00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:19,000
projects and collaborations

86
00:03:19,459 --> 00:03:20,360
based upon,

87
00:03:21,219 --> 00:03:23,060
deliberations over the last two or three days?

88
00:03:23,060 --> 00:03:24,900
So that's that's how we'd like to operate.

89
00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:26,500
And we used to do about six a

90
00:03:26,500 --> 00:03:26,819
year,

91
00:03:27,344 --> 00:03:29,425
because I did a lot of cancer research.

92
00:03:29,425 --> 00:03:30,084
And so,

93
00:03:30,784 --> 00:03:32,784
four of these were funded by the National

94
00:03:32,784 --> 00:03:33,604
Cancer Institute.

95
00:03:34,144 --> 00:03:35,125
We used to push

96
00:03:35,745 --> 00:03:36,245
ideas,

97
00:03:36,705 --> 00:03:38,944
new ideas about the nature and origin of

98
00:03:38,944 --> 00:03:39,360
cancer.

99
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,639
That, program was wound up, and so we're

100
00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:45,199
down to about two a year now, maybe

101
00:03:45,199 --> 00:03:45,699
three.

102
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,099
How often does the the quantum

103
00:03:49,039 --> 00:03:50,800
realm of science, if you like,

104
00:03:51,199 --> 00:03:52,500
come into those discussions?

105
00:03:54,424 --> 00:03:56,284
I suppose with the workshops,

106
00:03:57,305 --> 00:03:59,944
it's always hard to avoid saying something quantum

107
00:03:59,944 --> 00:04:02,264
because, of course, it permits all of science,

108
00:04:02,264 --> 00:04:05,084
really. But those that focus specifically

109
00:04:06,185 --> 00:04:07,644
on quantum questions,

110
00:04:08,759 --> 00:04:11,419
probably only about, you know, one in five,

111
00:04:11,879 --> 00:04:14,199
maybe even less than that. As a matter

112
00:04:14,199 --> 00:04:15,579
of fact, I'm

113
00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:19,500
planning one in, April, which will be on,

114
00:04:21,479 --> 00:04:23,654
whether it often goes under the name of,

115
00:04:24,454 --> 00:04:24,954
biophotons.

116
00:04:25,814 --> 00:04:27,915
Living tissues emit photons,

117
00:04:28,615 --> 00:04:31,574
it turns out. No controversy anymore about that.

118
00:04:31,574 --> 00:04:33,274
Low a very low level specific

119
00:04:33,814 --> 00:04:34,954
frequency photons.

120
00:04:35,415 --> 00:04:37,574
What do they do? You say is it

121
00:04:37,574 --> 00:04:38,420
just a

122
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:39,860
concomitant

123
00:04:40,319 --> 00:04:40,819
process

124
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,500
that goes along with something basic like metabolism,

125
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,960
or is there a signaling function? And is

126
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,199
there anything sort of seriously quantum about it,

127
00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:50,180
like sub quasonian

128
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:51,665
statistics or,

129
00:04:52,444 --> 00:04:55,485
coherence or something. It's all, wide open. So

130
00:04:55,485 --> 00:04:57,004
we as a matter of fact, our next

131
00:04:57,004 --> 00:04:59,324
one will be very much in this sort

132
00:04:59,324 --> 00:05:01,404
of quantum area. Amazing. Okay. So I have

133
00:05:01,404 --> 00:05:02,925
in front of me a book which is

134
00:05:02,925 --> 00:05:05,645
called, Quantum two point o, the past, present,

135
00:05:05,645 --> 00:05:07,620
and future of quantum physics.

136
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,720
I've been delving deep into it and enjoying

137
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,639
it. But could you tell me well, tell

138
00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:15,139
everyone, what what is quantum two point o?

139
00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:16,480
So I think,

140
00:05:16,879 --> 00:05:18,819
it it won't have escaped people's attention

141
00:05:19,165 --> 00:05:21,504
that quantum mechanics has, pervaded,

142
00:05:22,125 --> 00:05:24,444
pretty much all of science and technology. It's

143
00:05:24,444 --> 00:05:26,464
the most successful scientific theory,

144
00:05:27,485 --> 00:05:30,384
in history, and it's a 100 years old

145
00:05:30,605 --> 00:05:31,665
this year because,

146
00:05:32,444 --> 00:05:34,319
depending a little bit on what you go

147
00:05:34,319 --> 00:05:36,180
back to. But if you go back to,

148
00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:38,019
Erwin Schrodinger's

149
00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:40,259
work and his famous equation

150
00:05:40,879 --> 00:05:41,699
and Heisenberg's

151
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,979
work, then it's just about a 100 years

152
00:05:45,439 --> 00:05:45,939
ago.

153
00:05:47,199 --> 00:05:50,064
And, it's given us all sorts of familiar

154
00:05:50,064 --> 00:05:52,704
things like the laser and the transistor and

155
00:05:52,704 --> 00:05:53,204
superconductors,

156
00:05:53,745 --> 00:05:56,944
and it explains electronics and AI and all

157
00:05:56,944 --> 00:05:59,125
these things people are familiar with.

158
00:06:00,224 --> 00:06:00,625
But,

159
00:06:01,024 --> 00:06:03,444
the at rock bottom, this is a theory

160
00:06:03,664 --> 00:06:04,319
that makes,

161
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,439
no sense. So after a hundred years of

162
00:06:07,439 --> 00:06:08,500
extraordinary success,

163
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,960
physicists are still squabbling over what it all

164
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,080
means. Now this is, has a new twist

165
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,699
now because some of the,

166
00:06:16,444 --> 00:06:18,764
what used to be called thought experiments, which

167
00:06:18,764 --> 00:06:20,925
were devised decades ago to try and sort

168
00:06:20,925 --> 00:06:22,865
of drill down into the philosophical

169
00:06:23,724 --> 00:06:25,104
aspects of this subject,

170
00:06:25,564 --> 00:06:27,745
the nature of reality at a quantum level,

171
00:06:28,444 --> 00:06:29,985
those experiments have been done

172
00:06:30,285 --> 00:06:33,610
and have been turned into a resource that

173
00:06:33,610 --> 00:06:37,290
can be used, for next great quantum leap

174
00:06:37,290 --> 00:06:37,790
forward,

175
00:06:38,410 --> 00:06:40,810
which, I'm calling quantum two point o. That

176
00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:43,550
seems to be a fairly universal description,

177
00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:45,550
but a more formal description

178
00:06:46,865 --> 00:06:48,564
is quantum information science.

179
00:06:49,264 --> 00:06:51,764
So we're familiar with the fact that quantum

180
00:06:51,824 --> 00:06:53,365
gadgets like computers

181
00:06:54,625 --> 00:06:55,605
process information,

182
00:06:56,064 --> 00:06:57,904
but they do it in a rather crude

183
00:06:57,904 --> 00:07:00,625
way. The gates and switches, and they're on

184
00:07:00,625 --> 00:07:02,819
and off and so on. And with a

185
00:07:02,819 --> 00:07:03,800
quantum computer,

186
00:07:04,419 --> 00:07:06,339
what you do is embed the information in

187
00:07:06,339 --> 00:07:08,740
the quantum degrees of freedom itself. So that's

188
00:07:08,740 --> 00:07:11,879
possible to manipulate individual photons and electrons

189
00:07:12,419 --> 00:07:13,160
and sculpt

190
00:07:13,779 --> 00:07:15,800
wave functions, quantum states,

191
00:07:16,419 --> 00:07:18,705
to order. It's possible to,

192
00:07:19,185 --> 00:07:20,004
carry out,

193
00:07:20,465 --> 00:07:22,545
some amazing new things. So I just mentioned

194
00:07:22,545 --> 00:07:24,965
quantum computing about this quantum teleportation,

195
00:07:25,345 --> 00:07:26,324
quantum cryptography,

196
00:07:26,944 --> 00:07:28,965
and a whole area of quantum sensing,

197
00:07:29,345 --> 00:07:30,245
which is commercially,

198
00:07:30,785 --> 00:07:32,085
burgeoning at the moment.

199
00:07:32,785 --> 00:07:34,410
So we're we're on the cusp of this

200
00:07:34,410 --> 00:07:35,949
next great quantum

201
00:07:36,490 --> 00:07:39,629
revolution where we go beyond just using,

202
00:07:40,329 --> 00:07:41,870
the quantum properties of matter,

203
00:07:42,889 --> 00:07:43,789
for technology.

204
00:07:44,089 --> 00:07:45,789
We're now being able to

205
00:07:46,175 --> 00:07:48,814
apply it to the concept of information itself,

206
00:07:49,134 --> 00:07:51,154
and that's very exciting. And

207
00:07:51,455 --> 00:07:53,295
we'll give a further twist to the whole

208
00:07:53,295 --> 00:07:55,214
question about what does it mean and how

209
00:07:55,214 --> 00:07:56,835
can we make sense of a world,

210
00:07:57,615 --> 00:07:58,275
in which

211
00:07:58,769 --> 00:08:00,709
quantum mechanics with all its weirdness,

212
00:08:01,170 --> 00:08:03,029
seems to pervade not just

213
00:08:03,490 --> 00:08:03,990
technology,

214
00:08:05,009 --> 00:08:08,050
but the whole of human society now. We're

215
00:08:08,050 --> 00:08:09,829
feeling the effects of this technology,

216
00:08:10,930 --> 00:08:12,470
pretty much everything we do.

217
00:08:12,975 --> 00:08:13,954
You you mentioned

218
00:08:14,254 --> 00:08:16,334
Schrodinger earlier, and I I get the impression

219
00:08:16,334 --> 00:08:17,694
from reading the book that may I mean,

220
00:08:17,694 --> 00:08:19,055
I don't wanna put words in your mouth,

221
00:08:19,055 --> 00:08:19,794
but maybe,

222
00:08:21,055 --> 00:08:22,194
you feel like his

223
00:08:23,134 --> 00:08:25,074
contributions might have been more important.

224
00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:27,730
Should should we be celebrating one hundred years

225
00:08:27,730 --> 00:08:29,090
next year if you see what I mean?

226
00:08:29,090 --> 00:08:30,710
It's true. The Schrodinger's equation,

227
00:08:31,330 --> 00:08:33,420
was published in January

228
00:08:33,420 --> 00:08:34,310
1926.

229
00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:37,490
And so, we could say that is the

230
00:08:37,490 --> 00:08:39,410
real centenary. But, of course, the work was

231
00:08:39,410 --> 00:08:42,285
done in, 1925,

232
00:08:42,345 --> 00:08:43,565
and, Heisenberg's

233
00:08:43,945 --> 00:08:46,845
effort was also in 1925. And UNESCO declared

234
00:08:47,065 --> 00:08:48,024
2025

235
00:08:48,024 --> 00:08:49,485
to be, the

236
00:08:49,785 --> 00:08:50,285
official

237
00:08:50,664 --> 00:08:53,565
centenary, the year of quantum science and technology.

238
00:08:53,850 --> 00:08:56,570
So it's it's always hard to know with

239
00:08:56,570 --> 00:08:59,209
huge developments in science exactly when to open

240
00:08:59,209 --> 00:08:59,789
the champagne.

241
00:09:00,490 --> 00:09:02,589
Yeah. Okay. But you think Schrodinger's,

242
00:09:03,529 --> 00:09:04,429
equation is

243
00:09:05,049 --> 00:09:07,415
more instrumental, should we say? Well, it it

244
00:09:07,415 --> 00:09:09,335
really is the starting point. If you're teaching

245
00:09:09,335 --> 00:09:10,315
quantum mechanics,

246
00:09:11,014 --> 00:09:12,475
what you do is you,

247
00:09:13,335 --> 00:09:15,254
say, here is the equation that you must

248
00:09:15,254 --> 00:09:17,254
use, and students often want to know, well,

249
00:09:17,254 --> 00:09:18,419
where did that come from?

250
00:09:19,220 --> 00:09:21,700
And that whole backstory is fascinating in its

251
00:09:21,700 --> 00:09:23,779
own way. But, usually, that's the starting point.

252
00:09:23,779 --> 00:09:26,039
And then you solve it for,

253
00:09:26,579 --> 00:09:28,519
you know, fairly simple minded

254
00:09:30,740 --> 00:09:33,954
situations like, the square well potential and the

255
00:09:33,954 --> 00:09:36,914
harmonic oscillator and the hydrogen atom and so

256
00:09:36,914 --> 00:09:38,774
on. And you very soon find

257
00:09:39,235 --> 00:09:41,334
that Schrodinger's equation gives you,

258
00:09:42,115 --> 00:09:44,294
a very powerful way of explaining

259
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,740
the properties of atoms and subatomic particles and,

260
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,840
molecules and so on. And it's it's the

261
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,139
way in which you do,

262
00:09:52,919 --> 00:09:53,419
practical

263
00:09:53,879 --> 00:09:55,740
quantum mechanics, the applications

264
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,259
of quantum mechanics.

265
00:09:58,565 --> 00:09:59,545
Now you can,

266
00:10:00,085 --> 00:10:02,325
take a step back and say, well, what

267
00:10:02,325 --> 00:10:04,085
does it really mean, and how should we

268
00:10:04,085 --> 00:10:06,425
understand it in a more abstract way?

269
00:10:06,805 --> 00:10:08,965
And it's true that a lot of cutting

270
00:10:08,965 --> 00:10:09,865
edge research

271
00:10:11,289 --> 00:10:12,350
really goes beyond

272
00:10:12,970 --> 00:10:15,230
Schrodinger's equation as a practical tool.

273
00:10:15,690 --> 00:10:16,190
And,

274
00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:17,950
we

275
00:10:18,490 --> 00:10:18,990
define

276
00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:23,070
vectors in infinite dimensional spaces and

277
00:10:23,975 --> 00:10:26,534
various sorts of algebras to apply to them

278
00:10:26,534 --> 00:10:29,414
and theorems approved about those and so on.

279
00:10:29,414 --> 00:10:31,495
So you don't have to work with something

280
00:10:31,495 --> 00:10:33,754
that seems sort of intuitive like a wave.

281
00:10:34,214 --> 00:10:34,954
You can,

282
00:10:35,254 --> 00:10:36,870
have this more abstract approach.

283
00:10:37,429 --> 00:10:39,589
But I think the starting point really for

284
00:10:39,589 --> 00:10:41,769
almost all students and the starting point historically

285
00:10:42,309 --> 00:10:45,350
was that equation. So I I've been reading

286
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:46,009
the book,

287
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:48,789
you know, in stolen moments around my my

288
00:10:48,789 --> 00:10:49,529
day job.

289
00:10:49,945 --> 00:10:52,065
And everybody who sees me not everybody. Lots

290
00:10:52,065 --> 00:10:53,625
of people who see me reading the book

291
00:10:53,625 --> 00:10:55,945
say, oh, quantum physics. That's really fast. I

292
00:10:55,945 --> 00:10:58,445
don't understand that at all. That's really interesting.

293
00:11:00,424 --> 00:11:02,664
That's quite a common thing. I don't understand

294
00:11:02,664 --> 00:11:03,544
it. It's really interesting.

295
00:11:04,629 --> 00:11:06,149
Why why did you want to write this

296
00:11:06,149 --> 00:11:08,149
book? Because there are other books on quantum

297
00:11:08,149 --> 00:11:09,909
physics. Right? So what what does this one

298
00:11:09,909 --> 00:11:11,909
bring to the table that the others don't?

299
00:11:11,909 --> 00:11:13,350
You have to look at my career. I

300
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:16,485
think this is my 30 book, actually, if

301
00:11:16,485 --> 00:11:18,725
you depending on how you count, some are

302
00:11:18,725 --> 00:11:19,465
co authored.

303
00:11:22,085 --> 00:11:24,004
And, many years ago, I wrote a book

304
00:11:24,004 --> 00:11:26,404
called Quantum Fields in Curved Space. It's a

305
00:11:26,404 --> 00:11:28,899
quantum field theory, an aspect of,

306
00:11:29,460 --> 00:11:32,519
applied to gravitational systems, aspect of quantum gravity.

307
00:11:32,660 --> 00:11:35,060
I read a textbook called quantum mechanics based

308
00:11:35,060 --> 00:11:35,560
on,

309
00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:37,399
a course that I,

310
00:11:37,779 --> 00:11:38,440
I taught.

311
00:11:39,060 --> 00:11:40,920
And then in all these other books,

312
00:11:42,180 --> 00:11:42,420
the

313
00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:46,075
you have to deal with quantum physics in

314
00:11:46,075 --> 00:11:47,595
some sense. So if you're talking write a

315
00:11:47,595 --> 00:11:49,714
book on cosmology or black holes or whatever

316
00:11:49,714 --> 00:11:51,134
it is, inevitably,

317
00:11:52,154 --> 00:11:52,654
quantum

318
00:11:53,035 --> 00:11:54,794
mechanics is going to come in. And if

319
00:11:54,794 --> 00:11:56,315
you look back at those books as, you

320
00:11:56,315 --> 00:11:58,399
know, a chapter or a few sections or

321
00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:00,580
something in which I hurriedly go through,

322
00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:02,799
well, these are the basics that you need

323
00:12:02,799 --> 00:12:04,740
to understand this particular narrative.

324
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:06,820
But I have never

325
00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:08,259
really,

326
00:12:08,799 --> 00:12:10,720
at least not for many many decades, sat

327
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,615
down and tried to pull it all together

328
00:12:12,615 --> 00:12:14,774
as a subject, as a particular subject. And

329
00:12:14,774 --> 00:12:17,274
the centenary seemed like a very obvious time

330
00:12:17,575 --> 00:12:19,195
to do that, but also because

331
00:12:19,975 --> 00:12:22,535
it now I think, the word quantum is

332
00:12:22,535 --> 00:12:24,535
on everybody's lips. You you you work on

333
00:12:24,535 --> 00:12:26,475
a newspaper if anyone does that anymore.

334
00:12:27,029 --> 00:12:28,950
But the, you know, the news feeds are

335
00:12:28,950 --> 00:12:30,789
full of quantum. There's some quantum there. And

336
00:12:30,789 --> 00:12:33,370
this is largely this quantum two part data,

337
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:35,370
the the whole quantum information

338
00:12:35,830 --> 00:12:37,450
revolution that's taking place.

339
00:12:37,909 --> 00:12:41,110
It's the sentiment going into it. Governments are,

340
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:42,884
backing it, and

341
00:12:43,504 --> 00:12:44,565
it start dominating

342
00:12:45,985 --> 00:12:47,024
research, in,

343
00:12:47,664 --> 00:12:50,065
across a range of of disciplines. So it

344
00:12:50,065 --> 00:12:52,144
just seemed to me that this was a

345
00:12:52,144 --> 00:12:54,144
very opportune time. But I didn't wanna write

346
00:12:54,144 --> 00:12:56,720
a book just about, well, quantum mechanics is

347
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,399
great and it's given us all this technology,

348
00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:00,319
and now it's gonna give us more. I

349
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,399
my real interest is in, well, what does

350
00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:04,259
it all mean? How do we make sense

351
00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:05,379
of this theory

352
00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:07,839
that says, you know, deep down among atoms

353
00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:10,404
and molecules, there isn't anything quite like

354
00:13:10,945 --> 00:13:13,125
a real world in the everyday sense.

355
00:13:13,504 --> 00:13:15,504
And so how is it that we can

356
00:13:15,504 --> 00:13:17,524
probe or investigate this fuzzy,

357
00:13:18,065 --> 00:13:18,565
uncertain,

358
00:13:19,184 --> 00:13:20,965
weird quantum realm

359
00:13:21,664 --> 00:13:22,164
and

360
00:13:22,465 --> 00:13:25,629
get answers that can be communicated between you

361
00:13:25,629 --> 00:13:27,629
and me. You know, did has the atom

362
00:13:27,629 --> 00:13:30,509
decayed? Yes. I heard that that that Geiger

363
00:13:30,509 --> 00:13:32,589
counter got click. You know, we can we

364
00:13:32,589 --> 00:13:34,289
can do that. We can,

365
00:13:34,990 --> 00:13:35,490
investigate

366
00:13:37,065 --> 00:13:40,024
with technology, investigate what is happening at the

367
00:13:40,024 --> 00:13:41,725
atomic and subatomic realm,

368
00:13:42,184 --> 00:13:42,924
and then

369
00:13:43,304 --> 00:13:45,304
make sense of it in the everyday world.

370
00:13:45,304 --> 00:13:46,365
But patching together

371
00:13:47,304 --> 00:13:48,044
the reality,

372
00:13:48,504 --> 00:13:50,490
the fuzzy reality of the

373
00:13:51,049 --> 00:13:53,629
subatomic world with the everyday reality,

374
00:13:54,889 --> 00:13:56,190
of tables and chairs,

375
00:13:56,649 --> 00:13:59,610
is is unfinished business. And there's a dozen

376
00:13:59,610 --> 00:14:01,850
or so, different proposals for how we should

377
00:14:01,850 --> 00:14:03,049
do that. Who do you think,

378
00:14:03,769 --> 00:14:05,235
who do you want to read the book?

379
00:14:05,315 --> 00:14:07,075
Right? If you if you could pick a

380
00:14:07,075 --> 00:14:09,315
particular section of society to read the book,

381
00:14:09,315 --> 00:14:10,214
who would it be?

382
00:14:11,315 --> 00:14:12,834
Well, you know, this is,

383
00:14:13,554 --> 00:14:15,495
what used to be called the the proverbial

384
00:14:15,794 --> 00:14:18,375
layman. That's somewhat sexist term.

385
00:14:18,834 --> 00:14:19,975
But this would be

386
00:14:20,549 --> 00:14:21,049
someone

387
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:22,250
not necessarily,

388
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:25,110
with a thorough knowledge of physics, but it

389
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:26,070
would be someone used to,

390
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:31,269
science and the scientific method and and,

391
00:14:32,654 --> 00:14:34,975
have some sort of background in thinking about

392
00:14:34,975 --> 00:14:37,714
science, but an interest in the deep philosophical

393
00:14:38,254 --> 00:14:39,714
aspects. So it would certainly

394
00:14:40,095 --> 00:14:40,914
appeal to

395
00:14:42,014 --> 00:14:44,195
philosophy students or or people,

396
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:45,000
with,

397
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,779
in everyday pre professions who are interested

398
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,720
in the big questions of existence. And I've

399
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,560
always written about those, the things like the

400
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,800
origin of the universe, nature of time, nature

401
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:56,379
of consciousness.

402
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,835
And quantum physics touches on all of those

403
00:14:59,995 --> 00:15:01,535
areas, and that they're all

404
00:15:01,995 --> 00:15:03,835
referred to in the book. I have sections

405
00:15:03,835 --> 00:15:04,894
on all of those things.

406
00:15:05,835 --> 00:15:08,154
And so, I, you know, I hope this

407
00:15:08,154 --> 00:15:10,254
appeals to a rather broad range of people.

408
00:15:10,315 --> 00:15:12,394
But what I didn't wanna do was just,

409
00:15:12,394 --> 00:15:13,995
you know, another book on, well, what does

410
00:15:13,995 --> 00:15:16,490
quantum mechanics all mean? I wanted to write

411
00:15:16,490 --> 00:15:16,990
about,

412
00:15:18,490 --> 00:15:20,570
this extraordinary effort that is now going into

413
00:15:20,570 --> 00:15:22,330
quantum two point zero, that all of this

414
00:15:22,330 --> 00:15:22,830
technology

415
00:15:23,370 --> 00:15:26,029
are really dazzling technology. And some of this

416
00:15:26,090 --> 00:15:28,250
is really just sort of on the age

417
00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:30,110
of of doability,

418
00:15:30,570 --> 00:15:32,424
things like quantum teleportation,

419
00:15:33,125 --> 00:15:35,125
you know, can be done. Is it going

420
00:15:35,125 --> 00:15:37,044
to be turned into a practical tool for,

421
00:15:37,044 --> 00:15:39,684
like, a quantum Internet? Well, my university has

422
00:15:39,684 --> 00:15:42,245
a whole lot of people beavering away to

423
00:15:42,245 --> 00:15:45,240
try to, understand that. It's a silly question

424
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:46,839
really because I don't think the answer is

425
00:15:46,839 --> 00:15:49,320
there. But but how quantum teleportation, tell me

426
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:50,919
how soon in terms of that,

427
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,720
computing aspect of it, how soon is that

428
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:54,779
gonna be a reality?

429
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,419
Right. Well, I think when people talk about

430
00:15:57,904 --> 00:15:59,985
teleportation, they think of Star Trek and Beam

431
00:15:59,985 --> 00:16:01,125
Me Up, Scotty,

432
00:16:01,425 --> 00:16:02,465
and all that stuff.

433
00:16:02,945 --> 00:16:05,024
What does it mean? It means sending something

434
00:16:05,024 --> 00:16:06,865
from a to b without passing through the

435
00:16:06,865 --> 00:16:07,845
space in between.

436
00:16:08,785 --> 00:16:09,285
And,

437
00:16:09,665 --> 00:16:10,710
you can do that

438
00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:11,690
in

439
00:16:12,149 --> 00:16:13,129
quantum systems,

440
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:14,889
with a great deal of care.

441
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:17,450
And you do it by using a property,

442
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:20,889
of quantum systems called entanglement. And this goes

443
00:16:21,029 --> 00:16:23,670
right back to the culture wars of the

444
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:25,294
nineteen thirties because,

445
00:16:26,315 --> 00:16:28,875
one of the people who kicked quantum theory

446
00:16:28,875 --> 00:16:30,254
off, Albert Einstein,

447
00:16:31,034 --> 00:16:33,195
never really liked it. In fact, he,

448
00:16:33,754 --> 00:16:35,835
was impeccably opposed to it, and the more

449
00:16:35,835 --> 00:16:37,195
it became developed, the,

450
00:16:37,914 --> 00:16:39,375
more of a skeptic he was.

451
00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:40,659
And

452
00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:42,959
the rest of the community got behind it,

453
00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:45,220
and in particular, Niels Bohr was the great

454
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:45,860
champion

455
00:16:46,319 --> 00:16:47,919
of what we might think of as the

456
00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:50,899
orthodox or textbook view, sometimes called the Copenhagen

457
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:52,819
view of quantum mechanics.

458
00:16:53,714 --> 00:16:54,995
And the two of them would,

459
00:16:55,554 --> 00:16:58,595
bicker at conferences, and Einstein was always trying

460
00:16:58,595 --> 00:17:02,034
to find flaws in quantum mechanics with thought

461
00:17:02,034 --> 00:17:03,875
experiments, which say, well, this can't be right

462
00:17:03,875 --> 00:17:05,875
because if we did this and, measured that

463
00:17:05,875 --> 00:17:07,769
and so on, we get an absurd answer.

464
00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:09,450
And he cooked up one of these in

465
00:17:09,450 --> 00:17:10,670
1935,

466
00:17:11,609 --> 00:17:12,109
and,

467
00:17:12,730 --> 00:17:14,430
it involves two particles

468
00:17:14,890 --> 00:17:15,390
which,

469
00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:17,630
fly apart from a common origin,

470
00:17:18,009 --> 00:17:20,509
and, each is separately investigated,

471
00:17:21,125 --> 00:17:22,805
maybe on opposite sides of the lab or

472
00:17:22,805 --> 00:17:25,285
even opposite sides of the galaxy. And so,

473
00:17:25,605 --> 00:17:26,424
you will have,

474
00:17:27,205 --> 00:17:30,005
a proverbial physicist called Alice and Bob, and

475
00:17:30,005 --> 00:17:32,565
Alice will measure her particle, and Bob will

476
00:17:32,565 --> 00:17:33,625
measure his particle.

477
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:36,420
And it's very clear from the formalism of

478
00:17:36,420 --> 00:17:38,599
quantum mechanics that what happens,

479
00:17:39,140 --> 00:17:41,059
in Alice's lab and what happens in Bob's

480
00:17:41,059 --> 00:17:41,559
lab,

481
00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:45,400
are linked in some sort of, peculiar telepathic

482
00:17:45,539 --> 00:17:47,984
manner. That means that there is a degree

483
00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:50,464
of correlation in what they find over and

484
00:17:50,464 --> 00:17:50,964
above

485
00:17:51,265 --> 00:17:52,724
what could possibly exist,

486
00:17:53,424 --> 00:17:55,924
if these particles had all along

487
00:17:56,625 --> 00:17:59,265
possessed the properties that they are measured. So

488
00:17:59,265 --> 00:18:01,419
this goes to the heart of what, quantum

489
00:18:01,419 --> 00:18:03,039
mechanics is about. So Einstein

490
00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:04,000
hoped

491
00:18:04,779 --> 00:18:05,279
that,

492
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,819
beneath the quantum realm of uncertainty and fuzziness,

493
00:18:09,819 --> 00:18:11,679
there was a sort of more rational

494
00:18:12,059 --> 00:18:13,184
classical world.

495
00:18:14,225 --> 00:18:16,404
When you make a measurement in quantum mechanics,

496
00:18:16,545 --> 00:18:17,765
according to the Copenhagen

497
00:18:18,065 --> 00:18:21,105
view, the official view, you don't uncover a

498
00:18:21,105 --> 00:18:22,325
preexisting reality.

499
00:18:23,585 --> 00:18:26,785
You create that reality or the specific aspects

500
00:18:26,785 --> 00:18:28,465
of that reality by the very act of

501
00:18:28,465 --> 00:18:28,965
measurement.

502
00:18:29,570 --> 00:18:30,630
And you see Einstein,

503
00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:33,410
didn't like that. So he when the particles

504
00:18:33,410 --> 00:18:35,890
fired apart, he wanted them to already have

505
00:18:35,890 --> 00:18:37,109
well defined properties,

506
00:18:37,410 --> 00:18:39,650
and that Alice and Bob merely discovered what

507
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:41,809
those properties were. But it turns out when

508
00:18:41,809 --> 00:18:43,490
you actually do the real experiment, which you

509
00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:44,835
didn't have until the nineteen eighties,

510
00:18:45,554 --> 00:18:47,095
but Einstein was wrong,

511
00:18:47,554 --> 00:18:48,934
that it is the case,

512
00:18:49,634 --> 00:18:51,654
that, the these

513
00:18:52,835 --> 00:18:55,734
correlated particles that we're now calling entangled entangled

514
00:18:55,794 --> 00:18:56,294
particles,

515
00:18:58,355 --> 00:19:00,294
possess a degree of linkage,

516
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,380
a sort of telepathic linkage that could not

517
00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:05,380
be explained if they

518
00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:08,400
were born originally or emerge from a common

519
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,079
origin with well defined properties in advance. The

520
00:19:12,079 --> 00:19:13,679
only way you get around that is having

521
00:19:13,679 --> 00:19:14,894
some faster than light

522
00:19:15,375 --> 00:19:18,174
communication, because Einstein didn't want that because of

523
00:19:18,174 --> 00:19:19,474
his theory of relativity.

524
00:19:20,815 --> 00:19:22,434
So this thing called entanglement

525
00:19:23,055 --> 00:19:25,535
is now the resource that, it it's not

526
00:19:25,535 --> 00:19:26,515
just a matter of

527
00:19:27,214 --> 00:19:27,714
testing

528
00:19:28,170 --> 00:19:31,210
this, dispute between Einstein and Bohr, which was

529
00:19:31,210 --> 00:19:32,190
original motivation.

530
00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:33,549
It's now a resource

531
00:19:33,850 --> 00:19:36,490
that can be exploited in technology. One of

532
00:19:36,490 --> 00:19:39,070
the exploitations is in this teleportation,

533
00:19:40,090 --> 00:19:40,785
that if,

534
00:19:41,744 --> 00:19:43,365
the a third person, Charlie,

535
00:19:44,144 --> 00:19:46,465
sends an entangled pair of particles to Alice

536
00:19:46,465 --> 00:19:49,205
and Bob, they can Alice can manipulate,

537
00:19:50,625 --> 00:19:53,984
her entangled particle with the information she wants

538
00:19:53,984 --> 00:19:54,644
to send.

539
00:19:55,259 --> 00:19:55,660
And,

540
00:19:56,059 --> 00:19:58,140
Bob will then be able to recover that

541
00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:00,700
information at the other end without it actually

542
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:02,700
being transmitted down any sort of,

543
00:20:03,259 --> 00:20:05,119
opt optical fiber or anything.

544
00:20:05,980 --> 00:20:08,325
And, there's a there's a caveat there that

545
00:20:08,325 --> 00:20:10,424
in order for that to happen,

546
00:20:11,284 --> 00:20:11,765
Alice,

547
00:20:12,085 --> 00:20:14,085
and Bob have to communicate the old fashioned

548
00:20:14,085 --> 00:20:15,384
way, say, with the telephone,

549
00:20:15,924 --> 00:20:18,005
to give some instructions about who measured what

550
00:20:18,005 --> 00:20:18,505
when.

551
00:20:18,964 --> 00:20:21,450
So you can't use this to send information

552
00:20:21,509 --> 00:20:23,750
faster than light. There's a common misconception that

553
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:24,970
entanglement does

554
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:28,009
enable faster than light communication. It doesn't.

555
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:30,009
But it does mean,

556
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:31,049
that,

557
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:32,090
you can

558
00:20:33,345 --> 00:20:36,005
transmit and I'm talking not about transmitting,

559
00:20:36,704 --> 00:20:38,644
Captain Kirk. I'm talking about

560
00:20:39,265 --> 00:20:39,765
transmitting,

561
00:20:40,384 --> 00:20:42,704
you know, one qubit of information. The qubit

562
00:20:42,704 --> 00:20:44,244
does for quantum

563
00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:47,660
information sounds what the bit does for conventional,

564
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:48,940
computing.

565
00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:51,480
And so you can transmit a key bit.

566
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,039
It's been done. Now Paul went on to

567
00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:57,080
explain how these quantum experiments could translate into

568
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,580
a real world game changing technology

569
00:21:00,664 --> 00:21:02,365
or the quantum Internet.

570
00:21:02,904 --> 00:21:05,384
It's a fascinating area, but I really want

571
00:21:05,384 --> 00:21:07,224
you to read that section of the book.

572
00:21:07,224 --> 00:21:09,144
And if you do read no other bit,

573
00:21:09,144 --> 00:21:11,884
just delve into that. It's really fascinating area.

574
00:21:11,944 --> 00:21:14,250
Anyway, back to the conversation with Paul. So

575
00:21:14,329 --> 00:21:16,569
I think we've, you know, quantum information technology,

576
00:21:16,569 --> 00:21:18,809
quantum two point o has really got these,

577
00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:20,430
three legs. We've got,

578
00:21:21,130 --> 00:21:21,630
quantum,

579
00:21:22,569 --> 00:21:23,069
computing

580
00:21:23,609 --> 00:21:26,109
is the one we hear all about. Then

581
00:21:26,170 --> 00:21:27,789
the whole of the sort of quantum

582
00:21:28,365 --> 00:21:28,865
cryptography

583
00:21:29,404 --> 00:21:29,884
and,

584
00:21:30,365 --> 00:21:33,904
Internet and, tele population and then quantum sensing.

585
00:21:34,125 --> 00:21:35,884
And I think in terms of can I

586
00:21:35,884 --> 00:21:38,365
go out and buy a quantum gizmo that's

587
00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:39,025
going to,

588
00:21:39,724 --> 00:21:41,505
increase the profit in my company,

589
00:21:41,849 --> 00:21:43,450
The answer is yes? There are a lot

590
00:21:43,450 --> 00:21:46,569
of quantum sensors, being used and being developed.

591
00:21:46,569 --> 00:21:48,410
So that's the field that is really moving

592
00:21:48,410 --> 00:21:51,069
fast in the commercial space. But we hear

593
00:21:51,130 --> 00:21:53,609
more, I think, about quantum computing because some

594
00:21:53,609 --> 00:21:55,369
of the big players like Google and so

595
00:21:55,369 --> 00:21:55,694
on

596
00:21:56,335 --> 00:21:57,474
are involved in that.

597
00:21:58,815 --> 00:21:59,054
I'd

598
00:21:59,694 --> 00:22:01,454
that has just reminded me,

599
00:22:01,855 --> 00:22:03,294
of something I was reading about in your

600
00:22:03,294 --> 00:22:05,375
book, which did worry me, to be honest,

601
00:22:05,375 --> 00:22:06,355
which was about,

602
00:22:07,615 --> 00:22:11,019
AI and quantum computers. So this goes right

603
00:22:11,019 --> 00:22:13,500
to the heart of the weirdness of quantum

604
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:14,880
mechanics and its mismatch

605
00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:18,220
with daily experience. So in daily life, we

606
00:22:18,220 --> 00:22:19,660
think that there's a real world out there,

607
00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:21,660
and it's in a well defined state. And

608
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:22,710
and that seems to,

609
00:22:23,515 --> 00:22:26,554
work well enough, to to navigate human life.

610
00:22:26,954 --> 00:22:29,775
But then we start investigating this quantum realm.

611
00:22:30,474 --> 00:22:32,875
And the best way that I can explain

612
00:22:32,875 --> 00:22:34,714
it is if you take something like an

613
00:22:34,714 --> 00:22:36,015
electron or an atom,

614
00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:39,579
that a a quantum state for one of

615
00:22:39,579 --> 00:22:40,079
those,

616
00:22:40,460 --> 00:22:42,720
generally speaking, isn't doesn't,

617
00:22:43,420 --> 00:22:46,299
correspond to a well well defined properties like

618
00:22:46,299 --> 00:22:48,299
having a position or a motion or anything

619
00:22:48,299 --> 00:22:48,940
like that,

620
00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:52,115
that all of those factors are

621
00:22:52,734 --> 00:22:53,234
uncertain.

622
00:22:54,255 --> 00:22:56,335
And how should we think about that? Well,

623
00:22:56,335 --> 00:22:58,575
the the way that I like is that

624
00:22:58,575 --> 00:22:59,954
there are parallel

625
00:23:00,255 --> 00:23:01,554
alternative realities.

626
00:23:02,414 --> 00:23:04,654
You'll often read an atom can be in

627
00:23:04,654 --> 00:23:07,140
many places at once in in quantum mechanics.

628
00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:08,820
What do you mean by that? It really

629
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:10,440
means that there are many potential

630
00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:13,220
positions that an atom could have, and you

631
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:14,820
can set up a quantum state in which

632
00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:16,279
you could have an infinite number

633
00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:19,539
of potential positions. And one way to think

634
00:23:19,539 --> 00:23:21,774
about that is that these are alternative

635
00:23:22,075 --> 00:23:24,174
possible realities blended together

636
00:23:24,794 --> 00:23:25,934
to form an amalgam.

637
00:23:27,194 --> 00:23:29,774
And and the then the question is,

638
00:23:30,154 --> 00:23:32,095
you know, how how are we to understand,

639
00:23:33,034 --> 00:23:35,194
that how that amalgam when we make a

640
00:23:35,194 --> 00:23:35,694
measurement,

641
00:23:36,369 --> 00:23:38,849
that we get a definite result. One one

642
00:23:38,849 --> 00:23:41,269
of those possible worlds gets promoted

643
00:23:41,970 --> 00:23:42,950
to a real world.

644
00:23:43,650 --> 00:23:45,329
It's the winner, so to speak, in a

645
00:23:45,329 --> 00:23:46,549
great cosmic lottery.

646
00:23:47,490 --> 00:23:51,085
And that process of measurement, is is deeply

647
00:23:51,085 --> 00:23:51,585
mysterious.

648
00:23:52,365 --> 00:23:54,605
We still don't know what it is, how

649
00:23:54,605 --> 00:23:55,904
it is that the,

650
00:23:56,445 --> 00:23:57,664
the the amalgam,

651
00:23:58,365 --> 00:24:00,545
turns into a a specific winner.

652
00:24:01,069 --> 00:24:02,929
So one way of thinking about,

653
00:24:03,390 --> 00:24:05,549
the quantum realm is an infinite number of

654
00:24:05,549 --> 00:24:08,750
possibilities. And mathematically, we can describe that as

655
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:10,690
like an infinite dimensional space.

656
00:24:11,069 --> 00:24:12,910
Now now you and I don't live in

657
00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:15,089
an infinite dimensional space. We see three,

658
00:24:15,755 --> 00:24:17,695
spatial dimensions, one of time,

659
00:24:18,154 --> 00:24:20,235
and that's it. And yet, you know, the

660
00:24:20,235 --> 00:24:22,015
atom lives in this,

661
00:24:22,955 --> 00:24:25,835
infinite dimensional realm. So if you could imagine

662
00:24:25,835 --> 00:24:26,735
being an atom,

663
00:24:28,075 --> 00:24:30,494
what would you experience? You would experience something

664
00:24:30,555 --> 00:24:31,535
infinitely richer,

665
00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:35,259
than than we can experience in daily life.

666
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,279
And so, if you think that reality is

667
00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:40,600
really at the quantum level, we think that's

668
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,920
the sort of place basement of reality. The

669
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,140
quant quantum mechanics

670
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:47,144
sits at the bottom of our explanatory chain

671
00:24:47,305 --> 00:24:50,365
and that the everyday world is an approximation

672
00:24:50,664 --> 00:24:52,664
for the quantum world. But that but if

673
00:24:52,664 --> 00:24:54,125
you ask, you know,

674
00:24:54,585 --> 00:24:56,825
how does god see the universe? Well, it

675
00:24:56,825 --> 00:24:58,684
would be through quantum eyes.

676
00:24:59,305 --> 00:24:59,865
And so,

677
00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:03,480
then you have to think, well, if we

678
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,779
only ourselves see a tiny, tiny,

679
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:08,059
in impoverished

680
00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:12,059
view of the the deep quantum reality,

681
00:25:13,174 --> 00:25:14,474
what would it be like,

682
00:25:15,174 --> 00:25:16,954
if you had a conscious

683
00:25:17,255 --> 00:25:18,474
being on intelligence

684
00:25:19,015 --> 00:25:21,414
who could explore the whole of that infinite

685
00:25:21,414 --> 00:25:23,654
dimensional space? It's it's called a Hilbert space

686
00:25:23,654 --> 00:25:24,154
after,

687
00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:27,750
David Hilbert, the mathematician, but it doesn't matter.

688
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:30,150
The whole point is that this, that the

689
00:25:30,150 --> 00:25:33,529
quantum realm, which is, an just this infinite

690
00:25:33,589 --> 00:25:36,309
amalgam of all these possible realities, if you

691
00:25:36,309 --> 00:25:37,049
could actually

692
00:25:37,429 --> 00:25:39,944
inhabit that or observe it in some way,

693
00:25:40,825 --> 00:25:42,524
then it's very hard to imagine,

694
00:25:42,984 --> 00:25:44,284
you know, what what

695
00:25:44,984 --> 00:25:46,605
that experience would be like.

696
00:25:46,984 --> 00:25:49,164
Now we can't do it, but,

697
00:25:49,544 --> 00:25:52,264
supposing we were to build now everyone is

698
00:25:52,264 --> 00:25:55,890
building talk about AI, artificial intelligence. Is

699
00:25:56,509 --> 00:25:58,670
he conscious? Is he intelligent? And so on.

700
00:25:58,670 --> 00:26:00,590
I think that most people would say, well,

701
00:26:00,590 --> 00:26:02,349
not yet. We haven't got there yet. But

702
00:26:02,349 --> 00:26:02,830
now,

703
00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:05,390
supposedly we do. Supposed we get to the

704
00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:08,029
stage where, we would say, well, AI, it's

705
00:26:08,109 --> 00:26:10,214
we might as well assume that it's the

706
00:26:10,335 --> 00:26:11,954
we're dealing with a conscious agent,

707
00:26:12,494 --> 00:26:14,115
and this could come quite soon.

708
00:26:14,734 --> 00:26:16,914
Then what would happen if we combine this

709
00:26:17,055 --> 00:26:17,555
with

710
00:26:18,015 --> 00:26:20,335
with quantum two point zero? And there is

711
00:26:20,335 --> 00:26:23,315
indeed an effort to to build quantum artificial

712
00:26:23,375 --> 00:26:24,515
intelligence, QAI.

713
00:26:25,710 --> 00:26:27,169
And then we can think, well,

714
00:26:27,789 --> 00:26:29,569
what what what would

715
00:26:30,190 --> 00:26:31,890
this entity, this agent

716
00:26:32,429 --> 00:26:35,069
that could explore the whole Hilbert space, what

717
00:26:35,069 --> 00:26:36,349
would it have to say to us, and

718
00:26:36,349 --> 00:26:38,029
what sort of problems could it solve that

719
00:26:38,029 --> 00:26:39,944
we could never ever solve even with the

720
00:26:39,944 --> 00:26:41,724
help of our conventional computers?

721
00:26:42,265 --> 00:26:43,644
So it does open up,

722
00:26:44,105 --> 00:26:44,605
something,

723
00:26:45,625 --> 00:26:46,125
science

724
00:26:46,585 --> 00:26:49,164
fiction realm at the moment, but philosophically,

725
00:26:50,585 --> 00:26:53,544
disturbing or exciting or challenging, depending on which

726
00:26:53,544 --> 00:26:54,690
way you want to look at it,

727
00:26:55,649 --> 00:26:58,629
notion that a conscious quantum entity,

728
00:26:59,809 --> 00:27:00,549
would be,

729
00:27:01,329 --> 00:27:02,389
I I imagine,

730
00:27:02,690 --> 00:27:03,190
incomprehensible

731
00:27:03,569 --> 00:27:05,349
to us in terms of its experiences.

732
00:27:06,289 --> 00:27:07,809
And and it may be that we're gonna

733
00:27:07,809 --> 00:27:09,509
build one of those within

734
00:27:10,414 --> 00:27:12,015
the lifetime of some of the people listening

735
00:27:12,015 --> 00:27:12,674
to us.

736
00:27:12,974 --> 00:27:14,034
Do you think we should?

737
00:27:15,054 --> 00:27:15,534
Well,

738
00:27:15,934 --> 00:27:18,034
what we're into here, there's

739
00:27:18,575 --> 00:27:21,794
this debate taking place just with conventional AI,

740
00:27:22,255 --> 00:27:22,755
that

741
00:27:23,134 --> 00:27:25,289
at what point do we hand over,

742
00:27:26,009 --> 00:27:28,590
to to these, things and let them

743
00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:31,769
run our our our world for us. You

744
00:27:31,769 --> 00:27:34,109
even get into it in a smaller way

745
00:27:34,330 --> 00:27:36,830
with quantum sensors because I mentioned

746
00:27:37,289 --> 00:27:40,055
that, you can you can use them

747
00:27:40,674 --> 00:27:43,234
to monitor human brainwaves. You you can wear

748
00:27:43,234 --> 00:27:43,815
a helmet,

749
00:27:44,595 --> 00:27:47,795
with quantum magnetometers in them that can pick

750
00:27:47,795 --> 00:27:50,035
up a tiny magnetic field that penetrate the

751
00:27:50,035 --> 00:27:51,640
skull. And then you can couple

752
00:27:52,259 --> 00:27:52,759
the,

753
00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:55,940
subject to a computer. You could use that

754
00:27:55,940 --> 00:27:58,119
to control robot arms or,

755
00:27:58,899 --> 00:28:00,019
vehicles or,

756
00:28:00,980 --> 00:28:02,200
anything you want, really.

757
00:28:02,819 --> 00:28:03,799
Once you you

758
00:28:04,304 --> 00:28:05,684
couple the human brain

759
00:28:05,984 --> 00:28:08,625
to a computer or to the Internet. And

760
00:28:08,625 --> 00:28:10,804
that raises the question, does this enhance

761
00:28:11,424 --> 00:28:12,804
what it means to be human,

762
00:28:13,585 --> 00:28:15,424
or does it diminish that? In other words,

763
00:28:15,424 --> 00:28:17,204
are we going to become like a node,

764
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,559
just a mere node in something much bigger?

765
00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:22,400
And is that is that good or is

766
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,320
it bad? And it it depends on on

767
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,140
your, philosophical point of view. There are religions

768
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:27,599
in which,

769
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,640
immersing yourself in the great sort of cosmic

770
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,660
consciousness is regarded as progress.

771
00:28:33,794 --> 00:28:34,534
That doesn't

772
00:28:35,154 --> 00:28:37,174
the Western tradition tends to,

773
00:28:37,875 --> 00:28:41,075
be, I think, very suspicious of the idea

774
00:28:41,075 --> 00:28:41,575
of,

775
00:28:42,755 --> 00:28:44,054
surrendering something,

776
00:28:44,515 --> 00:28:46,034
of what it what it needs to be

777
00:28:46,034 --> 00:28:48,480
human to some bigger system. So that's that's

778
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,019
something that would have to be,

779
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,599
be fought out e even before we get

780
00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:56,000
to the idea of quantum AI. It's bad

781
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,220
enough for just AI.

782
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:01,125
Yes. You know, we're I look at the

783
00:29:01,125 --> 00:29:03,365
world, and I'd I'd I don't necessarily think

784
00:29:03,365 --> 00:29:05,285
that all the people in all the countries

785
00:29:05,285 --> 00:29:07,365
should be the people in power. Right? I

786
00:29:07,365 --> 00:29:09,785
think there could be better options than that.

787
00:29:09,845 --> 00:29:11,225
Yes. It's a very uncontentious

788
00:29:11,605 --> 00:29:14,129
question. People could draw their own conclusions as

789
00:29:14,129 --> 00:29:16,129
to who I'm referring to. But if that's

790
00:29:16,129 --> 00:29:18,049
what we do as humans, why why shouldn't

791
00:29:18,049 --> 00:29:20,609
we give it over to, you know, something

792
00:29:20,609 --> 00:29:22,769
that maybe new Northern Us? Why shouldn't we

793
00:29:22,769 --> 00:29:23,990
give power over

794
00:29:24,369 --> 00:29:25,109
our lives,

795
00:29:25,565 --> 00:29:28,365
our world, our universe to something that maybe

796
00:29:28,365 --> 00:29:30,365
could understand things better than me? I keep

797
00:29:30,365 --> 00:29:32,525
changing my mind on this very topic. I

798
00:29:32,525 --> 00:29:33,805
think, you know, look at the state of

799
00:29:33,805 --> 00:29:35,664
the world today, and I think, well,

800
00:29:37,005 --> 00:29:40,049
we're we're electing in some countries. We elect,

801
00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:42,190
individuals, and then,

802
00:29:42,990 --> 00:29:44,589
they seem to make a hash of things.

803
00:29:44,589 --> 00:29:46,589
And then I think to myself, well, the

804
00:29:46,589 --> 00:29:49,009
people I I know who I really admire

805
00:29:49,150 --> 00:29:51,070
and who wants to change the world for

806
00:29:51,070 --> 00:29:52,910
the better are not gonna do it through

807
00:29:52,910 --> 00:29:54,575
the political process. They

808
00:29:55,755 --> 00:29:58,315
do it through through writing or developing new

809
00:29:58,315 --> 00:29:58,815
technology

810
00:29:59,194 --> 00:30:01,294
or starting foundations or something.

811
00:30:02,714 --> 00:30:05,034
And so it is getting to the stage

812
00:30:05,034 --> 00:30:07,434
where you think, would we be better off

813
00:30:07,434 --> 00:30:08,255
as a species,

814
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:10,099
being managed

815
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:10,900
by

816
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,200
AI? So but I tell you what the

817
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,019
danger is.

818
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,240
We're now developing, as it were, the first

819
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,420
generation of AI. So maybe QAI

820
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,180
is not far behind.

821
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:21,299
And,

822
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,384
I think everybody recognizes there are dangers of

823
00:30:24,384 --> 00:30:25,284
sort of unrestrained

824
00:30:25,825 --> 00:30:27,585
AI development, that we ought to have a

825
00:30:27,585 --> 00:30:28,085
framework,

826
00:30:29,184 --> 00:30:30,244
ethical framework,

827
00:30:30,944 --> 00:30:33,424
practical framework, the you know, don't let these

828
00:30:33,424 --> 00:30:34,079
things loose,

829
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,880
if they're gonna go berserk and destroy us,

830
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,740
or don't put them in charge of

831
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:41,759
battlefield or anything. That's all people worry about

832
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:42,419
all that.

833
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:43,940
So we can imagine,

834
00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:45,859
constructing

835
00:30:46,399 --> 00:30:47,140
the necessary,

836
00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:48,819
software,

837
00:30:49,845 --> 00:30:50,825
for these things,

838
00:30:51,125 --> 00:30:52,345
which would embed,

839
00:30:53,285 --> 00:30:56,804
roughly speaking, human values. And, Isaac Asimov was,

840
00:30:56,964 --> 00:30:58,345
the great visionary. He writes

841
00:30:58,804 --> 00:31:01,525
about robotics way back in the fifties, and

842
00:31:01,525 --> 00:31:02,825
there are the three laws,

843
00:31:03,285 --> 00:31:03,785
Asimov's

844
00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:05,700
laws of robotics.

845
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:08,720
And you think, well, okay. We could we

846
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,740
could design this first generation

847
00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:11,779
of ARs,

848
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,339
to to do no evil.

849
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:17,965
We'd we'd argue over what that means, but

850
00:31:17,965 --> 00:31:19,965
we could imagine doing it. But the trouble

851
00:31:19,965 --> 00:31:22,445
is the technology is moving so fast that

852
00:31:22,445 --> 00:31:25,164
AI is already developing the next generation of

853
00:31:25,164 --> 00:31:27,085
AI and the next generation and so on.

854
00:31:27,085 --> 00:31:28,945
So supposing we surrender,

855
00:31:29,965 --> 00:31:30,465
the

856
00:31:30,859 --> 00:31:32,080
management of the planet

857
00:31:32,859 --> 00:31:33,259
to,

858
00:31:33,740 --> 00:31:35,900
a a system of AIs, and we sit

859
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:37,900
back thinking, well, we can enjoy all this

860
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:38,619
now. You know, it's

861
00:31:39,340 --> 00:31:40,859
we can just have a good life and

862
00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:42,640
let the AIs worry about

863
00:31:43,100 --> 00:31:44,320
climate change or,

864
00:31:45,515 --> 00:31:47,835
supply chain management or all of the things,

865
00:31:47,835 --> 00:31:50,795
starvation. It would well outsource it to them.

866
00:31:50,795 --> 00:31:51,535
But then,

867
00:31:52,235 --> 00:31:54,174
the the the next generation

868
00:31:54,634 --> 00:31:55,215
of AIs,

869
00:31:55,755 --> 00:31:57,450
if if you you know, I think about

870
00:31:57,690 --> 00:31:59,690
evolution. You know that with each generation, there

871
00:31:59,690 --> 00:32:02,109
are accidents and glitches and things don't get,

872
00:32:03,130 --> 00:32:05,069
passed on quite right. And,

873
00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:07,149
over a million generations,

874
00:32:07,450 --> 00:32:09,609
can we really believe that in the far

875
00:32:09,609 --> 00:32:10,109
future,

876
00:32:10,985 --> 00:32:13,465
that the AI is running things, are going

877
00:32:13,465 --> 00:32:16,105
to still embed those human values? I think

878
00:32:16,105 --> 00:32:18,605
it's very, very unlikely. So once you unleash

879
00:32:19,144 --> 00:32:21,644
this AI world with its downstream

880
00:32:22,105 --> 00:32:23,325
consequences for

881
00:32:23,785 --> 00:32:25,404
end generation AIs,

882
00:32:25,865 --> 00:32:28,099
that's starting to look really scary,

883
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,559
but it may be unstoppable. I feel like

884
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:33,279
every conversation, every podcast that I'm doing at

885
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:36,000
the moment could end up in, you know,

886
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,460
a black hole of,

887
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,920
what is AI going to bring to us.

888
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,775
So I wanna just get back to the

889
00:32:41,775 --> 00:32:43,475
the quantum side of things.

890
00:32:43,934 --> 00:32:45,615
And with this being the International Year of

891
00:32:45,615 --> 00:32:47,775
Quantum, it we've we've covered a few different

892
00:32:47,775 --> 00:32:49,615
areas of it over the course of the

893
00:32:49,615 --> 00:32:50,434
year, including,

894
00:32:50,815 --> 00:32:51,634
you know, conversations

895
00:32:52,015 --> 00:32:52,515
with

896
00:32:53,055 --> 00:32:54,835
quantum physicists, but also

897
00:32:55,535 --> 00:32:58,230
artists who have delved into the world of

898
00:32:58,230 --> 00:33:00,569
quantum in their work. People like Serena Scappanini,

899
00:33:00,869 --> 00:33:03,029
who was in a podcast with us recently,

900
00:33:03,029 --> 00:33:04,089
and Fliss Inkpen

901
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:05,130
as well.

902
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:08,309
And there's something in your book about quantum

903
00:33:08,309 --> 00:33:09,829
music. Could you tell me just a bit

904
00:33:09,829 --> 00:33:10,484
about that?

905
00:33:14,005 --> 00:33:15,605
Well, this I I have to admit this

906
00:33:15,605 --> 00:33:17,285
is a little bit of a gimmick, but

907
00:33:17,285 --> 00:33:18,424
some people have,

908
00:33:19,204 --> 00:33:20,424
decided that they,

909
00:33:21,285 --> 00:33:22,184
would like to

910
00:33:23,470 --> 00:33:26,210
couple musical instruments to a quantum computer.

911
00:33:27,069 --> 00:33:27,569
And,

912
00:33:28,109 --> 00:33:29,169
the thing about

913
00:33:30,029 --> 00:33:33,329
quantum mechanics is that it's got, intrinsic

914
00:33:33,869 --> 00:33:36,190
elements of of randomness to it, but it's

915
00:33:36,190 --> 00:33:37,650
not, like chaos.

916
00:33:38,664 --> 00:33:39,244
And so,

917
00:33:40,744 --> 00:33:42,125
if you play your music,

918
00:33:42,825 --> 00:33:45,404
through or in collaboration with a quantum computer,

919
00:33:45,465 --> 00:33:46,924
it's going to be a very,

920
00:33:47,945 --> 00:33:49,484
novel type of jazz

921
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:55,029
innovation because there'll be some unexpected elements, and

922
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:56,330
then there'll be some coherence,

923
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:58,330
to it and so on.

924
00:33:58,950 --> 00:34:00,150
And so I think that, you know, it's

925
00:34:00,150 --> 00:34:01,590
a little bit of an effort to try

926
00:34:01,590 --> 00:34:02,090
to,

927
00:34:03,524 --> 00:34:04,024
to,

928
00:34:04,964 --> 00:34:06,804
I guess, the bigger thing is that we've

929
00:34:06,804 --> 00:34:09,144
been talking science a lot about the technology

930
00:34:09,284 --> 00:34:11,864
that comes from it. But great scientific revolutions

931
00:34:11,925 --> 00:34:14,505
always have implications for the arts as well.

932
00:34:14,804 --> 00:34:17,760
And quantum music is probably just the first,

933
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,559
of the way in which,

934
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,920
quantum information science. Because when we get to

935
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:24,579
the information,

936
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,059
we're combining it with things like

937
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,179
creativity and knowledge and understanding,

938
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:31,699
and art.

939
00:34:33,344 --> 00:34:36,005
So, quantum information science will impact

940
00:34:36,385 --> 00:34:38,625
the arts, I think, right across. So I

941
00:34:38,625 --> 00:34:39,344
can imagine,

942
00:34:39,985 --> 00:34:40,485
even,

943
00:34:41,585 --> 00:34:43,684
with drama and the performing arts

944
00:34:43,985 --> 00:34:44,485
where,

945
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,239
you'd embark on a play, but you wouldn't

946
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,699
know how it's going to end,

947
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,400
partway through because you'd have a a quantum

948
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,960
AI or something would be the or more

949
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,300
modestly just a capital quantum computer

950
00:34:56,599 --> 00:34:58,440
that would be sort of rewriting the script

951
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,025
as he went along. So, you know, I

952
00:35:00,025 --> 00:35:01,804
think there's there's a lot of an entertaining

953
00:35:02,025 --> 00:35:03,724
aspect that could come out of quantity.

954
00:35:04,105 --> 00:35:05,804
No. Absolutely. Now the book,

955
00:35:06,105 --> 00:35:08,264
is or I think entertaining is definitely a

956
00:35:08,264 --> 00:35:09,324
word I would use,

957
00:35:09,784 --> 00:35:11,945
to describe it. And I think that when

958
00:35:11,945 --> 00:35:14,200
you described the person for whom it is

959
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,960
meant, I felt like you were describing me,

960
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,579
to be perfectly honest with you.

961
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,019
But my my my feeling is that

962
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,119
it doesn't really matter whether I understand this

963
00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:26,119
stuff. It gives me great joy to try

964
00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:27,880
and understand it and to read the book.

965
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,315
Right? But does it actually

966
00:35:30,014 --> 00:35:32,034
matter if people like me

967
00:35:32,335 --> 00:35:34,734
know about the quantum realm that's got, you

968
00:35:34,734 --> 00:35:35,234
know,

969
00:35:35,534 --> 00:35:36,914
permeating through everything?

970
00:35:38,014 --> 00:35:38,454
Well,

971
00:35:38,894 --> 00:35:39,335
the

972
00:35:39,775 --> 00:35:42,369
so it's often being said where when people

973
00:35:42,369 --> 00:35:44,929
say nice things about my writing, they say,

974
00:35:44,929 --> 00:35:46,369
well, you know, that was wonderful. And then

975
00:35:46,369 --> 00:35:47,570
I read I read your book or I

976
00:35:47,570 --> 00:35:49,409
read your article, and and I thought, oh,

977
00:35:49,409 --> 00:35:51,730
now I understand this obscure subject. But, you

978
00:35:51,730 --> 00:35:53,170
know, the following day when I tried to

979
00:35:53,170 --> 00:35:54,789
explain to my mother, I realized

980
00:35:57,625 --> 00:35:59,704
there is there is an art in,

981
00:36:00,105 --> 00:36:02,364
dealing with very technical and very

982
00:36:02,984 --> 00:36:04,844
intellectual challenging subjects,

983
00:36:05,385 --> 00:36:08,184
to find analogies and shortcuts and ways of

984
00:36:08,184 --> 00:36:10,230
sort of conveying the spirit of something,

985
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:13,109
without having to get into the weeds of

986
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:13,849
the technicalities.

987
00:36:14,309 --> 00:36:16,230
And I think that this book I mean,

988
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:18,230
I'd probably get more into the weeds with

989
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:20,630
this book I have with previous books because

990
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:23,385
some of the experiments are the delayed choice

991
00:36:24,025 --> 00:36:26,425
experiments and the quantum erase and so on,

992
00:36:26,425 --> 00:36:28,505
I'll go into in quite some detail because

993
00:36:28,505 --> 00:36:30,744
they're so bizarre when you if you take

994
00:36:30,744 --> 00:36:32,184
the trouble to to,

995
00:36:32,505 --> 00:36:35,065
go through them. The nature of reality is

996
00:36:35,065 --> 00:36:35,804
so weird,

997
00:36:36,505 --> 00:36:38,369
that I felt it was worth spelling all

998
00:36:38,369 --> 00:36:39,109
that out.

999
00:36:40,289 --> 00:36:41,670
Now as to whether,

1000
00:36:42,130 --> 00:36:42,869
it matters

1001
00:36:43,650 --> 00:36:45,969
whether members of the public have grasp of

1002
00:36:45,969 --> 00:36:46,469
this,

1003
00:36:47,569 --> 00:36:49,750
I think I'm writing for people for whom

1004
00:36:50,449 --> 00:36:53,029
this subject is sort of intriguing and entertaining

1005
00:36:53,625 --> 00:36:56,344
and also pushes the boundaries for them to

1006
00:36:56,344 --> 00:36:58,664
think about what what is my place in

1007
00:36:58,664 --> 00:37:00,684
the world? How should I understand the world?

1008
00:37:01,704 --> 00:37:04,605
But there's also the sense in which because

1009
00:37:04,664 --> 00:37:06,824
we live in a world that's dominated by

1010
00:37:06,824 --> 00:37:07,885
quantum technology,

1011
00:37:08,289 --> 00:37:10,869
people have some idea what is this thing.

1012
00:37:11,009 --> 00:37:12,549
Because they used to work quantum,

1013
00:37:13,009 --> 00:37:15,170
you know, as if that explains everything. Oh,

1014
00:37:15,170 --> 00:37:17,089
it's quantum. Oh, yeah. I I know what

1015
00:37:17,089 --> 00:37:19,250
you mean. But but I I think people

1016
00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:21,045
should have some understanding of

1017
00:37:21,744 --> 00:37:22,804
of how those ideas

1018
00:37:23,184 --> 00:37:25,844
came into society over a hundred years ago,

1019
00:37:26,385 --> 00:37:26,885
and

1020
00:37:27,265 --> 00:37:28,965
and how important it is.

1021
00:37:29,664 --> 00:37:31,344
And and it's not just a label. I

1022
00:37:31,344 --> 00:37:32,565
mean, it is actually

1023
00:37:32,864 --> 00:37:34,324
a a scientific discipline.

1024
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,400
And as I said earlier, the most successful

1025
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,460
scientific theory,

1026
00:37:39,079 --> 00:37:40,219
in in history.

1027
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,079
So I think people ought to know something

1028
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:46,199
about it. It's you know, it it there

1029
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:46,859
was famous

1030
00:37:47,894 --> 00:37:48,394
writer,

1031
00:37:48,775 --> 00:37:50,855
Charles Snow, c p Snow, who wrote about

1032
00:37:50,855 --> 00:37:51,835
their two cultures,

1033
00:37:53,255 --> 00:37:54,555
some decades ago.

1034
00:37:54,934 --> 00:37:56,715
I'd bemoan the fact that,

1035
00:37:57,974 --> 00:37:58,875
at high table

1036
00:37:59,574 --> 00:38:01,035
at, at a college,

1037
00:38:02,179 --> 00:38:04,679
where you're mixing people from different disciplines,

1038
00:38:05,859 --> 00:38:07,859
you would be appalled if one of the

1039
00:38:07,859 --> 00:38:08,920
scientists said,

1040
00:38:09,460 --> 00:38:11,960
well, I don't know anything about William Shakespeare.

1041
00:38:12,019 --> 00:38:14,019
You know? Was he a poet? I think

1042
00:38:14,019 --> 00:38:15,880
he wrote plays, didn't he? But, yeah,

1043
00:38:16,179 --> 00:38:17,835
I know nothing about it. You you really

1044
00:38:17,835 --> 00:38:19,295
would feel that that was a

1045
00:38:20,795 --> 00:38:22,735
a a terrible commentary on their education.

1046
00:38:23,355 --> 00:38:26,175
But if, you know, Shakespearean scholar said,

1047
00:38:26,474 --> 00:38:27,835
I've never heard of the second law of

1048
00:38:27,835 --> 00:38:28,335
thermodynamics.

1049
00:38:29,835 --> 00:38:30,989
You know, one of the most

1050
00:38:31,630 --> 00:38:33,329
arguably the most profound

1051
00:38:34,110 --> 00:38:35,809
of the laws of physics,

1052
00:38:36,670 --> 00:38:38,670
then they get away with that. They could

1053
00:38:38,670 --> 00:38:40,590
almost be proud. Like, oh, I never involved

1054
00:38:40,590 --> 00:38:43,329
myself before. Like like, second law of thermodynamics.

1055
00:38:43,949 --> 00:38:46,454
So I see see quantum physics now as

1056
00:38:46,454 --> 00:38:48,694
playing the same role as the second order

1057
00:38:48,694 --> 00:38:51,034
of thermodynamics did in previous generations.

1058
00:38:51,414 --> 00:38:54,135
It is something so central to our society

1059
00:38:54,135 --> 00:38:56,694
and to our technology and to but more

1060
00:38:56,694 --> 00:38:58,394
than that, to, understanding

1061
00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:02,220
what what is the nature of reality and

1062
00:39:02,220 --> 00:39:04,380
and human observation, and how do we fit

1063
00:39:04,380 --> 00:39:07,340
in to the universe as systems in in

1064
00:39:07,340 --> 00:39:10,300
its it's the universal material system that deep

1065
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:12,914
down, it's got all this weird stuff going

1066
00:39:12,914 --> 00:39:15,094
on, and peep people need to know that.

1067
00:39:15,315 --> 00:39:17,155
I'd like to thank Paul Davies for talking

1068
00:39:17,155 --> 00:39:18,675
to me for this episode of the Physics

1069
00:39:18,675 --> 00:39:20,994
World Stories podcast. You can find out much

1070
00:39:20,994 --> 00:39:23,635
more about quantum mechanics from quantum origins to

1071
00:39:23,635 --> 00:39:24,535
quantum cosmology

1072
00:39:24,914 --> 00:39:27,315
in Paul Davies' new book, Quantum two point

1073
00:39:27,315 --> 00:39:30,150
o, the past, present, and future of quantum

1074
00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:32,150
physics. You'll also find a review of that

1075
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:34,730
book by Physics World's editor, Matin Jirani,

1076
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:37,110
in the opinion and review section of the

1077
00:39:37,110 --> 00:39:39,349
Physics World website. But, of course, we'll also

1078
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:41,454
post a link to it from the podcast

1079
00:39:41,454 --> 00:39:43,775
pages. And, of course, there's plenty more quantum

1080
00:39:43,775 --> 00:39:45,934
science and everything else shaping the future of

1081
00:39:45,934 --> 00:39:48,815
physics over at physicsworld.com.

1082
00:39:48,815 --> 00:39:51,375
We'll be back next month for the final

1083
00:39:51,375 --> 00:39:54,094
episode of twenty twenty five, and thank you

1084
00:39:54,094 --> 00:39:55,394
very much for listening.