Barbie Block and Sally Stiner Meet World

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Speaker 1: You are genuinely interested in acting on camera, like right now? You would love to do that? Yes, I have no interest. Do you actually do you really? Do you want a small part in the movie? Would you do? Oh? I was kidding, you don't have to put me in your movie? Well have to have to put me in your movie, of course, I mean, yes, of course I would do it. But I mean that wasn't why I was doing that. No, no no, no, it was yeah, but no. I mean I'm in a phase in my life right now where I miss the and I think it's because of this podcast. One of the reasons, like going back and kind of watching the journey I took as an actor, and it makes me want to entertain again and get back and kind of in front of the camera. But I want to bring act the American sitcom, which is what I've always wanted to do. I want to do an old school, classic eighties family American sitcom for camera, like the thing that doesn't exist anymore. I think the world that the country would love to see that right now. Um, that would be Why do you think you have zero interest in acting against I don't know. It's so funny though, because when I but like when I'm directing, I'll have these moments when we're you know, like if we're getting up ready for the day or whatever, and I have I'm so anxious. And then I realized, oh no, wait, I don't have to be on camera today, and all the anxiety disappears. And it's like it's palpable to me that like as much as as difficult as directing is as much of a sort of mental challenge and I'll be worried about it, it doesn't cause the same anxiety at all. It'll it'll be like, oh, no, we're I get to be on set, but I don't have to be on camera. Yeah, I don't know. I just hate the idea as an anxiety. Boy. I have to ask if the follow up question, which is do you not want to act? Or does the fear keep you from acting? Because for me, the fear just kept me from doing what I wanted to do, which is different than not wanting to act. Um Uh. The challenge I've given myself, what I've said, is that I will only act again if I want to do theater, like because to me, if I'm willing to commit to a play that takes you know, weeks of rehearsal and it's gonna be just only seen by a certain amount of people in the room. And it's just about the purity of storytelling and acting. When I'm ready to do that, that's when I'm going to allow myself to like really dive into acting. The idea of auditioning or being on set or you know, like going like making a movie and being on camera. Right, don't know, I have no interest. It just doesn't it doesn't sound fun, it sounds I don't know, it's just too much pressure. I guess. Yeah, that's just yeah, I do. I do love being around actors. I love talking about storytelling. I love working through Like you know, when I wrote my play and I got to be there for rehearsals and working with the actors, I got the same high, the same positive emotions that I do that I remember liking when I was an actor, Um, but without having to actually do it. Tell everyone about your play, Jensen and I went and saw your play and it was an amazing it was great. Thank you, thank you. Tell everyone about it. Uh. Well, So I wrote a play. It was called Never Ever Land Um, and we produced in tween the end of nineteen. Um, he started the pandemic. Yeah, um, yeah, it's you know, it's it's the thing I'm most proud of in life having written this play. You know, it was kind of like I was getting sick of writing screenplays because they never get made, right, Like you can make a living as a screenwriter, but nothing that actually gets produced. And I wanted to write something that would sort of be its own document that when I finished writing it, it was like it is now a finished thing. And that's what a play can be, because a play can be reproduced or or it could just be read as a text. And um, you know, obviously I started in theater, so it comes naturally. And I so I wrote this play. It took me like a year of writing the notes and thinking about it, and then it all kind of flooded out and we put it on its feet. Just so satisfying to to go, you know, from a blank page to that finished play. Like, like I said, I'm so proud of it. Yeah, it was really great. It was great. I don't know how did Will how did we not plan to go on the same night. I don't know. I don't know either. Yes, soon and I went and we had a great time. We took two of them. We took two of the four seats in the theater. Exactly it was, but it was but alm. I almost I almost thought the intimacy of the theater added to the experience of the play. Frankly, I mean there are some plays where you know, you put Ibsen up on its feet. It's like it's okay that there's five hundred seats in the theater. But you know, this was like you were right there. You felt like you were part of it. So I thought it actually added to the whole experience. Frankly, that was great. I agree with you, especially because there are some moments in it where there is like some real tension and and you feel it in that small room. It's uncomfortable. Yeah, you uncomfortable. Yeah, it was uncomfortable on purpose. And uh and every you could see everyone's looking around at each other like you uncomforty too, Yes, all right, I'm not gonna lie. I am getting slightly nervous about our live show. Yeah, me too. It's getting closer and closer, which I realized as I say, this is how time works. October twenty two at the Magnolia in San Diego, we are going to be recording some of the podcast in front of you all, but also it's going to be an interactive boy meets World fest. We're taking questions and answers, playing games, performing, bringing out a special guest wearing tons of layers, and everyone will see Mr plays with Squirrels live. Please no shiny objects and keep your hands away from his mouth, which means I am breaking out a thirty year old character just to reminisce with some of your pod heads. Is that as? Is that a word? It sounded weird? My ears is that we're calling our listeners podheads. I don't think so. That doesn't sound very good, but we can ask them on October twenty two at the Magnolia. Get your tickets now at ticketmaster dot com, where there are also v I P packages with a meet and greet and a photo. Come for the nostalgia, stay for the unpacking well s. They all on October twenty two in Sandy A go pod friend does? I don't like that either? Well? I am very excited about our guests today. We are going to be joined by Ms Sally Steiner and Ms Barbie Block, who were the casting directors for Boy Meats World after our pilot. So the pilot episode of Boy Meats World was cast by Alison Jones, who is like one of the most famous casting directors. Yeah, so she did the pilot of Boy Meats World, and then after the pilot she was gone, and Barbie Sally Steiner came in and Sally did the first season and then I believe Barbie joined her in season two. So we will find out more when we get to ask them some of these questions. Um, now, writer and will is the last time you saw Barbie and Sally when you were on Girl Meets World? Because for those who don't know, Barbie and Sally also were the casting directors for Girl Meets World. So is that would that have been the last time you guys saw each other. Yeah, absolutely, it's been a few years. That's why I'm crying already. It's been years. How is that possible. I'm very fortunate that I get to see well, I got to see them for a long time because after Girl Meets World and I started directing for a show called Sydney to the Max. They were the casting directors for Sydney to the Max. So imagine what a cool story it is for me to be working with young actors who, for the most part know me as the mom on Girl Meets World. And then I get to tell them, well, yes I was the mom on Girl Meets World, but I was also a child actor just like you. And these lovely ladies who cast you on this show also cast me. So it's uh, it's quite a story. Well, it's fun to it's fun to see your success to that. We love that. That was fabulous. And everybody on Sydney loved you. You know, Girl Meets World, they loved you. Everybody loved you as a director. Well, thank you very much you as a director, so please please do Also, I'd really love to be the mom on a sitcom again, So if you need a mom, I would love it. I really would want to be the dad. Why have we not written this already? Will we could be a married couple that would melt Boy Meets World fans brains, though they'd be like what Panga and Erica would end up with Eric Matthews the way she always wanted to from season one. Yes, that's the show. That's funny. Yeah, but he disappeared for a while. Will we tried to get you to be sitcom down a few times. I know, I know I was. I had to get my own mental health straight before I was able to want to come back. But we were just talking about that earlier, about if if I was ready to come back. I'm I think I'm officially ready to come back at this point. That would be for something that'd be fun, but i'd it would be, Yeah, it would be, it would be fun to be back. But huh, it's true. I love it. I love it though it's it's always you know, being in front of the audience is terrifyingly wonderful. So it's, uh, it's great, but yeah, who knows. So let's get into the story of how you guys started on Boy Meets World. You Sally came on too, Boy Meets World after the casting director after basically kind of a failed pilot. Right, how was this job pitched to you? How did this come to you? I just remember going, Okay, I'll do it. Yeah, but you know, I knew we were going to be making some changes, and um, obviously Ryder was solid in there, um and um, but you know we found Rusty and Wilford Dell, you know, so um, yes, so we had some changes to make and you know, I saw the pilot, I knew I could see why they needed to make some changes for certain things. And I thought chemistries were not as flowy as they could be. So, um, you know, I kind of knew what my job was. So to give everybody, even before we jump into more details, to give everybody an idea of exactly what a casting director does. Because something you know, we take for granted that we have us know what your job is. Why don't you tell a little Danielle, nobody knows. Explain tell us what a casting director does. Explain it in your words. Um, if I can think of what we do. Um, you know, we're usually the first one hired, and we get the script and we put out what's called a breakdown to the agents and the managers in the world. And then we also look at it and say, okay, who do we think this person is. It could be described blonde hair, blue eyes, and you know, we'll bring in all different types because why not. And what we do is we will narrow down and to show our producers, you know, four or five of the best choices we have and sometimes twenty or thirties depending on the project. Right, Um, and lately. You know, we've been working with actors a lot on zoom and coaching them, and you know, they'll sending a tape from who knows where and we'll call and say, can we talk to this person? And then you know when they then they get to hear what the role out, what we're thinking, how to not be like everyone else, how to trust your own instincts and not think about what they want, you know, just be and and all three of you are so distinct in your deliveries and everything that you do. You know, there's no middle of the road here. And a lot of actors come in and you'll write the note good, But there's got to be that something else, that special something that you want that person to hang out in your living room where you want to be around the person the audience, you want the audience to want to be around that person. You know, when I was trying to be a casting corrector, um I was told that you have to remember the whole picture, not just each individual actor. You have to realize how they fit into into the show. You know, does does will work with writer? Does you know, Danielle cour I mean, you really have to try to envision what the group is like because most of the time you don't even get to read with the other actors. I mean, they're just you know, I'm sure a lot of you went in and didn't even read with other actors. So, um, I think it's really important to look at the group of people that you're going to cast and you know what and what it is you're casting. I mean, everything is different. There's drama, there's comedy. You know, you guys know that. So um, I think that's important to really focus on that. Now, what do you remember about discovering Will and his audition? Do you remember the first time you saw him or auditioned him. Do you remember what the buzz about him was when he got the job? I know, I remember. I'm very forgettable, I know. But here's what I remember is that I met you for a movie I was doing for amblin a far off place. I don't know if you remember that you did an audition for that movie and I kind of hooked onto you. Then I really thought you were special. Do you remember that at all? From place? Which one was that place? Um? Actually, Reese Witherspoon got your role. Okay, okay, Well, because Ethan Embry was the one we were casting, but then they decided to change the roles because okay, you know so, but they got to go to Africa, so you know. But that's where I recall meeting you. Okay, but I don't remember the audition process. So do you you met him at that audition for that movie. Did you then specifically request him to come in to read for Boy Meets World or was that just a happy incidence. Well, I think he went on tape. I must have gone on tape because I was doing all of this out of New York. Yeah, he went on tape, so um, yeah, but that was But that's what I remembered you from because I probably saw you on tape from a far up place, must have it. But but I remember going, wow, this is a great kid. You know. I want to remember him for stuff. I mean, And that's how you cast. You remember things from the past, you know whatever, all kinds of people. So it's so interesting. I think actors get so hung up on whether they do or do not get a certain part. But the reality is it's still worth going out because the casting director will be like, oh, well, you're so wrong for this part, but you're so right. For this your thing, and like it's just you always want to go and make a good impression, right, Like you have to just get and even if it's a couple of lines, but we file it in our little computer when we find someone's best, right, well, you zoom in our brain. It is it requires such imagination to do what you guys do, because, like you said, you have to think of the whole. You can't just look at every individual actor. And on Boy Meats World, you were creating a family. So you needed a mom and a dad who were believable as a couple, and then you needed that couple to be believable as the parents to these three children. And so these three children had to be different enough but yet also have similar you know. It's like it requires such an imagination. And Will mentioned that we saw the original pilot and there is definitely some differences in chemistry, the difference between the original pilot and the way the pilot came together for Boy Meats World. You see the pilot for Boy Meats World and you go, yeah, I love this family. I feel like I'm jumping in to exactly where they are in their life. I don't need I don't need to like see them at one oh one. I know that this is a family and they're established, so that's really cool. You know, you also have to be on the same page as the producer, the director, and the network, you know what I mean, layers to go through. Well, do you guys remember, because we've talked a lot about how the first five or six episodes of Boy Meats World had a lot of revolving gust cast and you know, even Danielle was a replacement for the original Topanca. So do you guys remember Boy Meets World being a little bit of a a tough job because challenge, we're going to cast quicker than most shows, right, I mean that was a typical He cracks me up because I never heard you guys talk about the death chair. I was talking Shureman the other day. He said, I knew about the death chair, but as a casting director, Richards all the time too. So I was in the death chair, which I remained in for years. But but you just kept filling the death chair, Sally, the death chair. No, it's but I never referred to it as the death chair. Remember going to time to the stage of Bill Daniels, So if he would see me come on the stage, he'd go, you know, thumbs down, I'm going to always you know, I freaked him out a little bit if I went to the stage, but you know, you know, you have to me. It's like, unfortunately these actors don't know that. And I feel like I owe Marty your apologies, apologies. And I usually explain it to the you know, to the agents and stuff. They don't always pass the message along. I don't think it every time. I'm not perfect or whatever. But you know, it's not It's not the actor, do you know, it's the chemistry. It's what they're looking for, and they kept looking to fill in something there and they weren't finding it. So um, you know, those are so sensitive anyway. Even if they got that message, they're like, sure, thank you, thank you for saying that to make me feel better. But we all know it was me. That is not the truth. That is not the truth. And it's funny when you don't get a role a lot of times it's got nothing to do with your performance. Nothing, it's you know, it's it's what looking for in the whole picture. It's height, it's hair color, it's it's never hair color, and especially when you get to those, to the to the later parts, then it really becomes about chemistry. You know. The first like you, they liked it as an actor, they like a quality. But then when you get down to and I know you guys have talked about testing. When it's you and one other person, you're both very talented, it's just who fits the jigsaw puzzle in that moment, right. It's what you just said before Barby started talking um, you said you it should be required. Oh, I was gonna say for me, like it was such a learning experience when I finally got to sit in on a casting session that I was not auditioning for. And I think it should be required for actors to do that, like it to be a reader or to just sit because it becomes so obvious that it's not about you. Do you know what I mean? Because when you and you and you watch how many talented people come and go and you have a casting session with like people, like you said, most of them are good, Like most everyone, You're like, well, yeah, they could do this. They're if you're in that room, you're you're usually there for a reason. You have an acting talent, you have an ability and it's just like you said, it's just kind of either the luck of the draw or the way that the room felt when they walked out, or like whatever. But it's so out of the actor's control, and when you could sit on the other side of that, it's such a relief, you know, but it's it's hard. It's hard. I did a lot of actors to come into our sessions to see what's going on. They said, you know, Michael, Michael would bring some of you guys into our sessions so you can see what was going on, if any remember. But it was so important for the actors to see what was happening. I think in that process. Now I have as I have a question. When you're casting children as opposed to casting adults, does the conversation of how they may look when they grow up ever come into the to the discussion, you know, not so much. No, I mean, you know, you wonder if they're going to be, you know, twelve feet tall or something like, but not really, not so much, not as much as people think, yeah, we will hear, oh she's too tall for that. What do you mean she's too tall to do? You know, like just it's such a siny little thing that you know, and people always want to find a reason why not when, as we keep talking about, there often is absolutely nothing you can do at the end of the day. And this is tough to hear. That second person a lot of times gets cast in the show because the producer will be like, oh, remember Jane who tested, Let's find a role for her. That happens all the time, all the time. Yeah, for sure. We cast one pilot what was serious and it had what four boys in it, Savages Complete Savas and um, we had cast one boy early on and then we found the other boys. Well, the one boy that we cast early on, they decided really didn't match with the other boys, so we had to drop him before nothing to do with him other than physically. The other kids we cast it made it more of a family. So the first kid who had the job ended up getting like because the other three changed the dynamic didn't even get to work. I mean, it was like, you know, So that was that was horrible. So you mentioned that show, Complete Savages. What are what are some of the other shows that you guys have casted for that people will know other than Boy Meets World. Oh my god, I know you have. You have a very long list of credits, but why don't you just say podcast. I mean, we don't have that much time. You know. What. One show that we walked in late was Malcolm in the Middle. We asked the last two seasons of Malcolm in the Middle, so they had done five years, and we thought they had probably used every comedy actor in the world. And what a blast that was and the series, you know, and what actors needed to learn was they needed to just deliver the lines that it was the series regulars that were the ones that were supposed to be funny. So when actors came in doing too much, it didn't work. But if they came in and said, here's your pizza, then Brian Cranston could get into a whole whole thing. That was a memorable show. Good Luck Charlie was a wonderful family show that we were We cast the baby old six months old and not months, no twins, nothing. We called her yoga baby. She came in and did all this stuff and she turned out to just be a little killer the whole, you know, until she was five years old, signing autographs to she was wonderful. But she was eight months old when we hired, but she she stood out. Yeah, we've done. We've got a couple of features lately that we're really fun with Happy Madison and Netflix, um Adam Sailor's company. We did Hube Halloween, which I was about a year ago, but it will be It will be odd too every Halloween, and another one called Home Team that starred Kevin James and we found about ten or eleven brand new kids. We found a couple of adults that we gave major breaks to and that felt great. And uh so that's also a Netflix. Everybody wants to check it out. And from that's kids from all of the United States. That's why I said, I'm so zoomed out because you know, we're watching these zooms twenty four hours a day. I mean, it's it'shausting. And these two are also cast an amazing, amazing show called Pepper Dennis that writer this is how my wife. Yeah they cast your wife. Yeah, we know. Like and here's the thing. We finally got to cast writer because we didn't keep cast him going that's right, you guys cast him on Pepper Tennis. And then as a bonus, he got a wife. Writer far from Seawan Hunter yeah, you know, letting actors have a little range and do different things. And it was great to see you like that. That was so fun. I remember that audition. Yeah, I remember that audition. I was just like because, yeah, you know, I knew as you guys, But I was also like, are they gonna be cool with me being like a nerd? You know, like I had been sewn for so long, but this character was like this really awkward, geeky guy, and I was like, I think I could pull this off. And I just remember the audition went so well on Wavy was great, remember, Shawn was amazing and we just had a great time. Yeah, it was a terrific show. We got knocked out with the w B. Yeah how many how many wives did you read with before you selected Alex? I'm just trying to who was what rider worthy to write chemistry and all that kind of stuff. She was. She was a good example of a one shot guest star scored and then they got in her back and bringing her back and that you know Sally had mentioned earlier. You know, sometimes a couple of lines you never know. A week on Girl, I'm sorry kid, we had we did a show two guys and a girl, and we did that show and a girl came in. Who was it, Jillian Bock Chillian Buck. She came in for two lines. She became like the head, the whole person of the series. I mean, he came in for two lines, so you never know well. And as Nathan Phillions from Canada, he did as a favor and did like a couple lines as a jukebox guy, became a serious to regular and has never left a seasons. They give me, give me hell about this. I always talked about Mash, but Clinger on Mash was was somebody who was supposed to have a couple of lines in the pilot and that was it. I mean, some of the biggest characters in television history are people that came on said one or two funny things. Daniel official official Toga. I mean that is I wanted Danielle from Topanga for day one. You always think you're audition was whatever. I adored you from day one for that role. So she was Danielle your first pick? Then, if you had to cast it right off the bat, was daniel your first pick for Topanga? Yes? Wow, you heard it here, There's no question. So it really you think like you blew the audition or whatever. I mean, it was so I was so terrible. I just wanted it was like bringing at the time or whatever. Yeah, you were in the character that I envisioned. You were that person and so and sometimes a bad audition, we can see right through. We can see who you are, what you can do, and you know, Wow, Rusty Rusty. When I cast him, I was so excited because I cast a film that I put him in with who was in that record Howard and Jane Simmons and um he is detective kind of guy or whatever, and I was just such a major fan of his and like Betsy, everybody had a brush on him. Anyhow, when I brought him up to Michael Jacobs, he was beside himself. He was so excited. But I would get calls why they were trying to get Rusty? Do you think this is gonna work? Do you think this is gonna He was so excited for Rusty to be on that show. Yeah, boy, was he a score, such a score, such a score. But that was a big coup to get him on our show. Yeah, well he was great. We've talked about how good Rusty is, I mean just and how and you guys have talked about how not the typical sitting at each were more interesting and more grounded up and still got the comedy. And you know that's the kind of that's the kind of comedy that I know. We both leaned towards that. The more real I mean, you know, Danielle, you did Sydney that was so much more real. I mean, you know, those like Disney a lot of stuff. We've done a lot of Disney, but the shows we've done, most of them have a reality base. They're not like big broad you know, goofy so um we're having you know, will. You said something on one of the podcasts the other day about how they're getting all the actors from you know, England, you know, wherever. And I so agree with what you said in that people are not training here and people need to train. And I just wanted to reinforce what you said because factors are listening. It's so important. You don't just you know, do a podcast and then all of a sudden become a star. That happens. I did Fresh Prince, but um I cast you know, the pilot the first couple of years of Fresh Prince of Laire and Will had no experience, you know. And I remember I interview with Prince Joe. That was exciting doing up to his house and I but do you think this kid can do it? You know you Will Smith. No, I didn't discover him. He they set the show around him. But when I met Quincy to do the rest of the show, I remember staying to Quincy, so you think this kid can do it? Quincy took my arm and says, yeah, I do. But Will was I mean, you know, he he like all new actors, you know, he needed a few episodes. But and I remember standing on stage point I want to see that guy do drama because he just had it all, you know, and he wasn't like a trained, trained actor, you know. So yeah, exactly. But that was a fun show to do for a couple of years. Wow, that's amazing. How much of the casting is gut feel? I mean because again, because my then follow up question is if you know, like, how often is it where you know this is the right person for the job, but then the producer comes in and says, no, I want someone else. Oh that kills me. But I feel like we've been pretty fortunate in in the in the producers and directors that we've worked with, we just we seem to be able to be on the page with them, and that's just that's been great. And maybe it's the people we've worked with, but we also will speak up and say, hey, you miss something with that guy, and most producers will say, if you feel strongly, bring that person back in. Um. There. There's there's a few that have slipped by. You know that Eugene Eugene Lovies network tests and the network executive said, oh, he's not funny my life, in my life. They sent him out and they sent him home. Billion tested for two guys and didn't get it. And that's where the calm said can you come on just for this couple little thing? And then they made regular that you know, well, it's interesting you mentioned that big because I was just I was just occurring to me. You're saying that my I would have been your first choice from Topanga from my first audition, and so you you were probably a hundred percent the reason I ended up with that part that had two lines. You were like, Okay, Michael Jacobs or whoever, she hasn't been approved through the producers for this Topanga role, but can we at least give her this? And so the reason I was even on set at all that week was because you had you felt a fondness for me after my audition. And you know, Danielle, you know you wrote in your book, which is a very good book, by the way, thank you. So how you know I upset you and you were crying? You're, oh, yeah, got a series of regular that's cry. But you um, because I was paying so much attention to the other actor, Yeah, well you needed to how to contact her? Yes, I you know, I knew Marla for a long time and I think she's terrific, but she was not Topanga, you know, and so I was just trying to make her feel really good. And you know, because I knew, I was calling youator to tell you got the job, you know, and I had your incoration. So, oh my god. I did another show called Great Scott with Toby McGuire, and um, I had that office where there was a little blast window you could look through and I was laughing at people and blah blah blah blah blah, and this actress came in and I guessed I was really intense and I wasn't laughing or whatever. But she was the one that I thought was right for the role. You know I did. So she went back to her office trying to her agent. She didn't laugh at me, she didn't whatever. She got the role. You know, she don't really know. Sometimes I guess I got a little more intense with her rather than you know, well, there's your wheels are probably spinning, which is you know, you you're inside your mind going, Okay, nailed it. So now this person is going to be the person at cast. So now I'm gonna have to go and call her agents. So your mind already starts going ten steps ahead. And they're like, she clearly doesn't like me. That's so crazy. We're ten steps like, we gotta called agent, we gotta called the network. We have to do this. Okay, please make them be available at the agent and screw up. That's a big thing, right, that's a biggie Alex. Alex talks about her audition for Pepper Dennis. She said it was like she killed him and like everybody was laughing, and she came out and somebody in the waiting room was like, wow, they were laughing really hard. And Alex's takes She's like I think they were laughing at me. She's like, I don't think it was good. She walked away convinced that everyone was like making fun of her, not laughing with her. And then she got apart and she was like, oh, okay, maybe it was working. You just have no idea as an actor. You know, actors are also the most insecure people on the planet. We are the most insecure people on the planet, actors. Everyone thinks you're all confident, but you're not. It's horrifying. Yeah, actors will come in and say, so, what are you looking for? What do you want? I will never ever give them that conformation. I want to see what they bring to the room, because note you to death, you know, and I've always wanted to see what is coming into the room rather than oh I want him to be this, this, this, and this, oh and Danielle. At the other minute ago, I said, no hair color. Nobody cares about your hair color. I've never cast by hair color. You know. It's we can change hair color. You know, we can change color. We can do anything. Because people get all caught up agents so called well it says blonde on here. It's like, get over it, you know. So and we try and never to put those descriptions in, but they do. And I won't put in a like Jack Nicholson or something, you know what I mean, I won't pay any of that stuff, right, I like to see what what you have to offer. Yeah, well there's the progression that that have you ever heard that, the old actor's progression that they hear, which is you use yourself. You say, like it goes, who's Wilfred L. Then get me wilfrid L. Then get me a younger Wilfred L. Then who's Wilfred L. That's always the progression they say in the in the acting industry. So it seems to go that way. Oh that's so funny. So we recently had treat a McGee on and she told us this amazing story about how she auditioned for Angela and then wasn't going to get the part or didn't get called back, and she went into her agent's office to basically confront her agents, say no, they need to give me another chance. I really want this part, and the agent blew her off for a phone call, and so she left her agent's office and was standing in the in like the waiting area talking to her agents assistant and was saying, like, you know, it's unbelievable they won't I need to go back in there and read. And the assistant was super on board. The assistant was like, yeah, they've got to get you back in there. And the assistant picked up the phone and called Barbie and got Barbie on the phone and said, can we get Trina back in there to read again? And Barbie said send her in And that's then how she ended. That was like then the audition that ended up getting her the part on the show. Our memory is there was no one else. Yeah, Trina was so uniquely and and and then and then we were watching her and going, oh my gosh, she was good. She was terrific. She remembers then when she did once she was in the mix, it was always her and ten other people. And then sheep that you guys can't bring her and then put us through the ringer. They were brought in a zillion a zillion people. A lot of people say don't bring in your best people first or whatever. I don't fall for any of that crap. Um. It's like, I like to bring in who I feel is the most special for the role. Then if I want to see fifty other people. Fine, but I feel like I've done my work a lot of it, so I mean I still looking, but um, you know a lot of people. Um. I had one producer said well, what if you miss somebody in the pre reach. I mean it was like and then he started sitting in on my pre reads. It was like he was the very insecure producer is not anymore that you know? And you know, that role of Angela was so special and there was so much pressure on it because Sean was going to fall in love for the first right, and who is going to really turn Rider's head? You know, you could get back down to that chemistry again. And if you quizzed me, I couldn't tell you who those other nine girls were. It was only Trina knew them all. Remember, she was like she was in the room. She was in the room. She was competition. Yeah, do you have one that got like the one that got away that you knew her right for the part? This is the I'm casting this person. And then producers somebody yanked it and said no, you can't do it. And when you you remember, uh, you know, there's a lot of good people that were passed on Barbie just said, Jason Biggs, I don't know. Well, there was a role. There was a role of a kid at the prom and he was supposed to be a nerdy kid at the problem. And Jason had just moved to l A from New York and he was like, I hope I'm going to do well in l A. And you've you know, done a few little things. And we brought him in and the producers passed on him and they, you know, went with somebody who was more of a pocket protector kind of guy. And then a year later he came out in American Pie as the biggest nerd in the world. That's when you turn to your partner and say, city, I know I've never been I've never run into Jason over all these years, but I've always wanted to say to him, see if you did that, good, but you should have that. He should have had that role. We had the one experience where Taylor Lautner didn't get a role on Was It Jonas? It was Jonas Jones brother. Taylor did not get the role, but if he had gotten the role, he would have never been in Twilight. Like you know, you don't know, I mean it's like, you know, karma out there. Yeah, what's meant for you will still be for you. You know, how about Tony Quinn. Do you remember anything with casting Tony. I know that he was Joel Ferrem, who was ahead of NBC's trainer. Really Joel introduced him to us. Unbelievable. Yeah, because that's what he's doing now. Yeah, Tony's been a trainer for years. Yeah, Tony has been a trainer for years. You've got to meet this guy and he was terrific. So and the reason I got the job working with sal I was not on season one, which is why I'm loving the podcast so much. I came on the middle of season two for the episodes c er Now and I pulled onto the Disney lot and I see Anthony Tyler Quinn standing at outside Sally Taylor and I said, I'm getting this job. Tony Quinn, I was, You're like, I want to be here every day exactly one really rememberable. We have got one really memorable pasting session. You know, we saw the millions, but there was there was the one where it was the Ski Lodge episode and it was the girl that was going to turn Corey's head and then to Cardalini and when she came into read, she just she just had it and was so excited. One of those you're praying that the producers dumped on board. So she says, Hi, Corey, and I see Michael Jacobs out of the corner of my eye furiously circling her name. I could see that, and I'm just going to okay, we're good. Yeah right then, because I mean, that's that's never really happened before, where I just you know, okay, it's all good. And she and in rewatching that she was she was the perfect person with you and with Ben and then the Jonathan Jackson of it all. They were two really solid people that could have turned one of you. And yeah, that was great. Both were incredible actors. We we heard a story or I heard a story. I'll speak for myself. I heard a story from some of the writers. I can't remember that. One of the casting sessions they remember the most is some woman came in and started breastfeeding her child while she was reading. Is that it was that a real story? Well, she can She had her baby with her because she didn't have childcare, so she was holding the baby and reading, which is not unusual. It was a small baby, and she was giving a really good read. The baby started fussing, so as natural as that is, she was feeding the baby and I was still continuing to read with her. But some of our writer producers that will admit it that they were a little juvenile, right, It was a little tough to get to the end of the scene, you know, with them, But you know it was it was beautiful because she she didn't miss lots of things, I mean, not missing the beat. To me, that's kind of brilliant. All she's a wonderful actress. She works all the time. By the way, I think she won an Academy Award? Did she or close? Yeah, I'm not going to mention her name. Yeah, major, I cannot believe you're not going to tell us who it is. I's kind of brilliant. I want everybody to just send us emails on who they know. Who do you think it could be? Who do you think pretend to Now do we know for sure that she's won an Academy Award because we can narrow it down Academy Award winning actresses or do you know will get on the show. We'll get back to you on that. Okay, I don't know she's been up for awards. I don't know. What do you remember about casting Adam Scott? Oh he was. Here's what I remember is that after he got cast, he came into my office and he brought me three little muffins in this little thing. He was so adorable. Three Why three muffins? But did he eat one on the way started? But by the time he couldn't yet afford a mini muffin basket, so he just got three. It was the cut I just thought it was the sweetest thing. And the only thing I know is that I don't keep everything, but I kept his little card. I just knew somehow he was going to score another one. We had a trailer full of guys, there were guys down the street, guys everywhere, but it was only Adam Scott. He just at it. He had that. You know, it's funny when you think all these actors are reading for a role and it comes down to really nobody else's right for a role, and that that is the way it is a lot of the time, you know, So that will Jeff Sherman told me to tell you the story. I did Great Scott with Um uh, which is Toby McGuire, And um, it was Leo DiCaprio was a good buddy of his. So he was hanging out all the time. So I go into a casting session, I come back into my office and there are posted everywhere in my office. He was practicing his signature. I had all of these autographs all over my wall. I didn't keep a single one. I should have him one day and I said, Leo, don't know. You know? He was right. They were. They were the cute They used to hang out all the time. They were just great guys. They're still good friends. I still think Leon DiCaprio, if he works hard, could make it in this business. I've said before, I'm going to say it again. I think he's got something and he's got a shot. But I have so funny that he was in there just practice autograph. I have another another question about casting. What do you remember about casting the late great Brittany Murphy. That breaks my heart. I know that that was an impossible role. Yeah, absolutely impossible because she was so wacky, and but there had to be something grounded. You had to there had to be the vulnerability. And when I tell you, there was nobody for that role, and Michael had had a relationship with her on the show she did Almost Home. Yeah, yeah, that was that was wonderful and very sad this moment. But I guess, yeah, when you're casting next to somebody like to Panga and you want to drive to Panga more Center, it's like when you're casting for Frasier and to make Frasier the normal one, you have to cast Niles. So it's like that same where it's like Brittany had to be the wacky kind of because again then you're pushing to Panga kind of. More Center asked, so, yeah, so strange. But she was another one. She came on our set and was just instantly one of us, like just instantly she was a great great Yeah, yeah, she really was girl. And what about Ethan sup I want to know about his Yeah, talking about my other favorite, okay, those I love him. I felt I called my little baby. Probably hate that what I do. But he just had such an innocence, and you know when he did those little poems and everything, and I'm you guys going to get him on the podcast, I hopefully, I hope. So I adore him, and he went on to be so successful that it's just you know, and he's gone through a whole transformation body transformation, so um. But you know, I just remember there was nobody, you know, there was nobody like him. He was so special. Even even even was you know, he was such an intense actor actually, like you know, even if we're doing comedy and we're doing these kinds of ridiculous scenes, but he was always so focused and so interested in taking risks and making sure that everything he said was interesting, Like he never he couldn't open his mouth without it being incredibly fascinating. And I just remember his intensity on set being kind of at odds with because the rest of us are like, you know, we're doing a comedy, we're trying, but and he was. It wasn't that he was up like in a bad mood. He was just had an intensity about it. And I remember David Trainer pulling me aside and being like, have you noticed how he takes this so serious? And it was like, yeah, He's like I think that's really great. I was like, yeah, it's amazing and amazing. I guess American History X or something like that, where he's just so intense and awful and he can do and you can do it. Yeah, I mean yes, super talented, super talented. You know when he would do those poems and stuff, he would just rip your heart out. Oh. So you mentioned Brittany as as being impossible, what was the Was she the hardest role to cast the entire time you're there? I mean, can you think of one where it was just like so different? I think they all were. I think they were all difficult. Um. We had you know, the producers, they they had such a standard for what was going to work on that show and it you know, and it did really work. So and you know, as you know, Michael was so passionate about everything, so passionate. I have a great respect for Michael Jacobs. I think he's just he's done a wonderful job at this show with you know, the lessons and everything and um, so you know, he was it wasn't easy to cast for him, you know. And I had some agents that because kids were getting let go and stuff, they weren't sending their kids in, so I had I had a lot of challenges, you know, to deal with bringing people in. So um. But Michael, um, he he he had a vision and he was going for it. You know, so um, and you couldn't always get into his head, you know, to figure out exactly what. But I think we did a good job of getting there, you know. But and you know, when when we did the show, I started, I was a casting associate and I did that for the first few years and then Sally promoted me on season six to casting director. So Boy Meets World was my first show that I was a full casting director. And Michael too was very generous in allowing me to and I kind of walked out of the thing. Okay, if I can cast for Michael Jacobs, anybody, anybody, and you know, and it was you though he we felt love from him, We felt like we cared about us and it was all about making a show better. So, um, I'm Boye's World down, Girlmate's World. They were just both wonderful experiences and shows that were really proud of good. I'm just curious, was Matt Lawrence cast or was he was Matt put on the show by like Disney? He was put on the show. That's okay, that's what That's what I thought. So we I was just curious his his origin story, which we'll get you eventually, but somehow I don't know what happened, but you know, there were conversations whatever, but he came on the show, so and and he fit right in really well with you. It was a great group. Yeah, he did. So we've talked a lot about how the third seat, the death chair, was one of the ways they were trying to bring diversity onto the show, because we have also openly talked about the fact that we were a very white cast. We were such a white cast. And so do you remember do you remember the conversations, like, were there conversations about needing to bring diversity into the show, and and it just like, do do you have any memories of those discussions? No? Okay, and um, you know, I um, I really don't. I mean I think they could have been. I just don't recall those I mean, it became more and more, you know, through the years, like you know, diversity here, we gotta do that, we gotta do that, we gotta do that. But you know, we did bring in diversity, but I didn't hear it as a mandate or at any right, but it could have been. I just don't remember. Yeah, I mean that's why, you know, Alex is one of my you know, treating. I mean, it's like I was thrilled with that, and then I always tried, you know, when I was doing stuff. So and part of the casting director's job is to envision the world, and you know, we we felt a lot of responsibility. There were you know, little girls, eleven year old girls having having sleepovers, and so we felt like, you know, to ask chunky kids or kids with braces or kids you know, you know, all kinds of all kinds of people, you know, diverse, you know, is what our world looks like. So I feel like it's become a big thing that everybody talks about now. But I feel like casting directors were always there trying to push it where you know, and present the real world. And I worked on Fresh Prince for the pilot in the first couple of years, so um, it was the opposite there. So I came from, you know, the two worlds. How now I think people be interested. So let's say you've got somebody like Alex who's coming on as a series regular. How much time between finding out there's going to be a new series regular and finding Alex usually goes by about three weeks, okay about you can say about three weeks. Yeah, I can't say yes, because I remember they brought us back a couple of weeks early they to cast that series regular, and we were given about three weeks to cast him. But that's not always the case. It's always different. I think it's always different. You know, times better days or that night they call this person tomorrow. Yeah, a lot of that. Not so much in the last few years, but it used to be that way. But you know, but we start thinking from the minute we get an outline, even if it changes, even if it goes away, we'd rather know sooner. So when you see there's gonna be a love interest for Eric in your outline, we're already looking for that. Um, you know, six or seven weeks down the line. We are. Office does a lot of generals. We just meet people. But agent will call somebody's in town from New York and you meet them, and you know, then that's how you kind of stack it up. And you know, in addition to pree reading is just meeting new people in town and because you never know where they're going to turn up again, or you know, well here, then here's a good question for that do you have? And it's hard off the top of your head, I'm sure. But are there any actors you can think of that we may not have never heard of, but that you think have like, deserve more shine or should have been huge stars but for whatever reason, it just hasn't worked out that way. But you're like, man, this person is talented, they have it, it just hasn't worked out for them. Do you have any actors like that that you think aren't where they should be because they should be bigger? You know what, I don't have a name that I could throw to you, but I do believe that there are some really talented people out there that are not getting a big break. I really believe that, yeare we see these wonderful, wonderful readings and then we see that the person is not working and we don't understand it. Is like, what's going on? You know? So I can't. I don't have a person you know that I can say, oh blah blah blah. But um. That leads me to another question then, because you mentioned something about how you said lately, Um, a number of people have been talking about how the business, you know, even before the pandemic was really starting to change. Have you noticed how, you know, how big. It changes it in in the whole in the casting world compared to what it used to be when we were doing something like Boy Meats World. How different is the industry now for you, Well, before we only had four networks, so there were a lot more actors. Now everybody has spread out, you know, Stars and HBO, Max, and it's it's more and more difficult to find available actors who can do what we need them to do. And our office in particular is extremely open. We do open calls on almost every role we we We we put out to actors access on every guest role because you never know that somebody that that other agents not going to submit them and they're like, I could do that, and I'd like to do that, and so we just use that as another source to get as much opportunity as possible to find those little gems. But as well, no, diversity is being hit really hard in the last few years. I mean that really has being been hit, which is very important. I think so about time, you know, exactly, everybody says, well they've gone overboard. I said, you know, maybe they've gone overboard. But everything's going to even out in life someday, Like wellies we just to keep reflecting the world in every way. What is your best piece of advice for someone who's thinking about getting into acting. I know you mentioned training, and Will has talked about that too. That's important. Yeah, What is your best piece of advice for somebody who's thinking about taking the leap of faith and saying I've always wanted to do this. What would you What would be the number one thing you'd tell them. One thing I would say is I would trust in your self and the uniqueness that you bring to as opposed to trying to figure out how to be all these other people in the truth, it's just going from what your truth is and showing people who you are and not trying to you know, fit into a box or what they want. And to know that we're looking for your uniqueness. You know, we're looking for your uniqueness. We're not looking for you to imitate somebody else. I mean, there are those people out there to do that, but you know, we're looking for your unique qualities. And I think that you have to, um have a confidence in yourself, um that you have a special quality and somebody is going to be looking for that, you know, So I really, I really believe. It's trusting yourself. I mean, it's really trusting yourself and also pursuing everything else. Writing, you know, take yourself and watch it back with your friends. There's read a lot. Is That's always advice I give is reading. You can learn so much of our characters through reading. So moments, you know, beating kids over with a reading things great. I mean. And also, uh, no, matter what you think about how your audition went, you were probably doing a bad guestimation about what they were thinking. Because as the person who walked out of an audition and thought, there's no way I booked this, they weren't interested in me at all. They didn't ask me for my phone number. And now this many years later, I thoind I was that I was? That I see him in New York um at the agencies, and we used to laugh. We used to have big jokes because the actors would call him and say I sucked, I was horrible. Whatever They would get the role called up and said I was, Yes, Well that's what I did with Eric. That's literally what I did with Eric. I went to a My dad took me to a pay phone to call my agent New York to tell him it went terribly. I mean, that's fair, and he went, you got it. I mean that's you always do. Invariably. There's there's a couple of things that we would we would always joke about from the actor's side, which is, um, yeah, if you think you did an amazing job and you got the part, you probably didn't. And if you can't get an audition and you can't get a meeting, book nonrefundable plane tickets on the same day and you'll get the meeting and you'll get the meeting or the auditions. Those are like everybody knew that, Like vacation. I used my last thousand dollars to go to Hawaii that week and now I got that all just so yeah, everybody knows that. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. But as a casting director, you know we're in this. We always saying the cashing when the same position as actors. You know, we're job to job or whatever. And you know, as soon as I would get a call about something, I would I have one friend that we set a lunch date. Never failed. I'd get a job. If I needed a job, I'd say, hey, I want to have lunch, you know, or playing a trip or exactly do you guys have a favorite actor or actress of all time? A favorite of all time? Yeah, who are your favorites? So you can name a few if you have. I'm just so curious what you want them to have? Cast them in something? Just ever, just like who do you look up every time my screen? You're like, I want to see them act? You know, there's just go ahead, there's so there's just so many. I I just I love actors. So there's all there's leading actors. I love, there's character actors I love. You know, people that come in and out of our office over the years. They know we adore them. They know they could come in and give a not so great read and they'll be back. Um, that's such a tough question, you know. I had to say. Olivia Hussey was on the show. Well, Um, growing up, I was had the opportunity to see Romeo and Juliet and Zepharelli, which kind of made me, you know, crazy about the business. So um, when you know I got to cast her, like oh my, I mean that was so many zillions of years after Romeo and Juliette, but you know I was able to see that Zephi Rolling Movie because he did all the Shakespeare films. I mean he it was amazing and it was one of the most famous directors. But um, that was exciting to say. One of the current person that I just love is you know Temple. Everything she does, she you just fall in love with her. And on ted Lasso the most awful things and you still love her. And then um, and then she was in a minute mini series, Um, the Godfather, Vinie series, Come on, you guys making it The Godfather, and she would wonderful. I'm just amazed every time I offer watch her, Yes, offer great, great minies. I've just been seeing again. I'm dying to see it. I hear it's great. Jensen's watching it now. That's why I know by the way, I'm seeing Dope sick. Yes, oh yes, that's a tough that's a tough watch. But man, everybody's so good in it. Do you know that the writer, creator and director Danny Strong played Arthur who went up against you will to be to get the internship at the television Really that was Danny Strong and he is big time now. I remember saying his name go by on a bus for Empire, and Danny's Strong from I'm like, fling, I have to google. Now, I have to google. Yeah, we stayed in touch. Figured that out by now I had I didn't know Danny him. Yeah, I know, we should have him on the podcast. Actually we reconnected in our twenties. We started doing these live theater shows called The Thrilling Adventure Our exactly, and yeah, he's a great guy. And he had just at that time written recount and that was his first major scrape. But I I didn't even remember him. He came up to me. It was like, yeah, I was on your show, and we like reconnected and we obviously have the same last name, and then we ended up. Yeah, we stayed in touch. He's such a good guy, such a good is of course, I of course I kne who Danny really. I ran into him not too long ago, and he was like, that was my second job of my whole life. He's been people launching. It's a pretty big role that he had for somebody who was so brand new. Yeah, if you go back and watch season three, episode two, we will be there. We will be there in five years exactly. Nominated for fourteen Emmies this week, just nicest, still so grateful and all right, we'll have him on. Jeez, that's really put podcast billions billions the least three years. It's really cool. Sally and Barbie casting directors for pod Meats World. We'll get you guys on booking if you don't mind not to do that. I know, I love it. I have one I have one more question. When one of these actors that were so intricral to our show, like a Tony Quinn, like an Alex Days Air something, that when they were told they were no longer going to be on the show, were you involved in that in any way, shape or form, Like were you involved in letting them know or did you just hear like the rest of us that they just weren't coming back. Uh, well, we heard obviously before you guys heard probably, well maybe sometimes you guys heard stuff before we did. But we didn't have to do the actual because you know, there's contracts and all stuff. Barbie did have to let somebody go one time. It was awful, and I made do it. I said, you don't have at all until somebody not to come to work the next days. And it's a rite of passage. It's awful, but it is. You've got to do it in the most kind way that you possibly can. Was it on Boy Meats World? Yes, we're not going to say who did. You don't trash people on this We that's that did trash people. And I didn't like that episode. So we don't like to trash people. Never never would encourage it. I do off I do off air, though, really want to. I'm gonna have to. Got we got enough follow ups here, my friends. You know, it's really it's unfair because you know, two people to hear like oh I was replaced or I was this, or I got let go, and you know, and some of the people that let the shows there are some of the biggest stars in town. You know, sure exactly. You know it's but some people don't take it that way. So that's why I'm protective of our actors. I love you actors. I think being mostly primarily a voice over actor to now anyway, for the last twenty years or whatever, you get used to everybody, especially there's been a voice over actor has been replaced in something has been and there's absolutely nothing to it. It's like, oh yeah, I was doing that and they replaced me with somebody. It's just you just get used to it. Frankly, so I think I think the on camera world could learn a little bit from the from the vo I'm I'm sensitive about the actors, and I just really I don't I don't feel there's a need to put that out there. So yeah, that's great. Well, thank you both so much for being here with us. This has been an absolute joy. We both are questioning questions. Question one thing you talked about having a party with everybody, Nelson the middle did that. We had the best party ever. It was like, how many years after the show ended. I mean it was great. I think that has to happen. Can you cast the party? Yeah? Will help. Well. One of the things I wanted to mention that Sally and I are just starting to do, which is super exciting, is we have started another company in addition to our casting called Steiner Block Consults, and we're going to be consulting with actors and parents all across the country, demystifying the casting process, answering questions people money, he's actors, the agents. People are always trying to say, spend money on this, spend money on that becomes creditory. Yeah, yes it is. You know, we have been doing this for you know, a million years in our office when we do generals is giving people advice and it's something that we both really love and feel like we're in a position to really help people and from zoom now why not right Steiner Block Consults at Gmail. Consults consults at Gmail, and we will have our website up in the next few weeks. Any type book can contact us that way amazing. Well, thank you guys so much for being here. We love you. I can't wait to see you again on whatever show we work on together next. You love what you love us. We love you and your our babies. We keep I'm the way to The actors love you, Danielle. Actors that you direct just absolutely adore you. And they learned so much on Girl Meats World and on Sydney to the Max. The actors just can't stop reading about you. Thank you. That means a lot. I learned a lot from watching Writer. Well, we need to we need to get new heads outs taken so they can cast us as the mom and dad in the show and then Writer can direct it. There you going it, you guys, Writer well together. Actually, Danielle, you know what people would accept. I bet you more than than us being husband and wife. Is us being brother and sister that are then forced together and like have to raise kids. That idea that would be that would be the would work. People would get that more than I think they would accept the us being all right, fine, we won't be married, We'll just be brother whatever. I just want to I just want to be a TV parent and we want to request more Poppins from Indie because he is hilarious, really comes out of the mind of a seven year old. I'm really interesting on this podcast that it's really funny to see the show through his eyes. He just you know, I felt like we would be when he was like to remember the sweeping the stage for a couple of years there a kid, rooms come to my house. That's how I look at it too. That's that's when I want to have a kid, just during the brooming era. You guys are great on the podcast. Thank you, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on right to hear all the acts. Will let you know when we have that party. Yeah, okay, well, thank you guys. Podcast podcast. You want to say, miss nailed it. I never know my line. Oh man, that was so fun just to get the kind of behind the scenes of what it was like and how you walked out of that room thinking it was like that was the They were like, Nope, that's that's her, wasn't it. They had a tough job, guys, Like I mean casting. The amount is the fact that they open it up to like open casting calls. It's just mind bog then. It just shows that they have such an optimism about actors and the potential. You have to have hope, right, Like it seems like it would get so I feel like I would become so cynical about actors if I was a casting director, to be like, ah, they're all the same, the diame a dozen. But you can't be right. That's you can't be You have to have like they're kind of positivity about actors and respect for the art form and just the hope that there's always talent out there. It's so so cool. I want to know who the woman was. I want to I want to find out. Yeah, we'll find out. Um. I did casting once in my life for a pilot Jensen and I were doing for for someone, and the number one thing I remember is that the amount of energy it takes to be a casting director and want to present yourself to you know, because actors are walking in trying to have you know, they want to nail it. They want to have a good audition. And it doesn't matter that you've seen thirty seven other people before this actor. You know that your energy with them can completely derail them and completely throw them, and that they're looking to you for little bits of guidance and to get a read on the room. And I said, then after I had done that experience, I said to Barbie and Sally said, I don't know how you guys doing it is. It's so much energy. And they said, we really don't know how we do it too. But right or to your point, it's because they as people are such optimistic, Like they are just such bright people who so love actors and actors that's what they love actors, they really do, and they take pride in their work as they should, you know what I mean. Like they are a huge part of why Boy in the world of a successful show because they were able to always piece together amazing every week. You know, it's not just the show for the first season, it's every week having to bring in our incredible guest casts, our elf guy who came in. You know, it's like they're indelible characters and it's because of them that they were they were able to find these actors. It's also you watch show after show after show that just gets worse as it goes on, and they tried to save it by bringing on wacky characters or you know, casting a new little brother and usually doesn't work. And on our show, I still think we were one of the few shows that got better as we were going on that the additions actually worked. Um, you know, it's made the show better, but I mean they did, they added to everything that went on, and that's you know, a lot of that as a testament to the casting really is. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a it's also a very um undervalued job. I think in the public public eye. You know, like there should be an Academy Award for casting. There should definitely be an Academy Award for casting. The category needs to be recognized. I think partly because it's always been women too, you know, I think that's the sexism of the industry. It's one of those jobs. Think about how many male casting directors do. You know, it's very rare. You know, it's usually it's it's always been a female centric job, and I think that's part of the reason why it has not gotten as much respect as it deserves. You didn't even realize there wasn't an Academy Award for casting. How is there not? Right? It doesn't seem like because it's the job that makes movies. I mean, it's such it's so important. And you know, yes, if you're getting into a certain level, they're just making offers, right, But if they're still auditioning people and there, yes, there should be a category to just recognize the power of the great casting director. Agreed. I have so many questions about that, Like then is it about the putting together the right ensemble? Is it about casting somebody? It's yeah, I'd be interested in how they would define the category. But I agree, yeah, you like Castle characters. It right, And that's the way it works, and that's where the Academy works, is that you vote within your you nominate within your own professional category. So interesting. All right, Well this has been another wonderful episode. If I do say so myself, you absolutely do say so yourself. I think you can follow us on Instagram at pod Meats World Show. Please be sure to email us at pod Meats World Show at gmail dot com. Also, if you have not subscribed, what are you waiting for? And if you love us, leave us a review five stars only. If you leave us four stars, one of us has to eat the other one and then it's it's actually it's terrifying. Yeah, so we don't accept anything less than five stars. Um hate listen on your own time and uh yeah, this has been really fun. Thank you guys for joining us. We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an I heart podcast produced and hosted by Daniel Fishel Wilfred l and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sup Bosch, producer Lorraine Viurez, Engineering boy meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at pod Meats World Show or email us at pod Meats World Show at gmail dot com