David Kendall Meets World

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Speaker 1: I have have a question people. So, with our schedule and everything we're doing in conventions and some other fun stuff, we're gonna be traveling an awful lot. HM, very excited. How do you guys pack? Are you willy nilly throw it in the bag? Packers? Are you lay everything out? Packers? Is the toilet kit as important as everything else? Walk me through it? Do you think I seem like a willy nilly anything? I'm waiting. I know, I was waiting for you to be like, you know, what's funny? Hold on, I can prick. Let's see. Danielle uses uh like actual bags within the bag, like those little divid eight bags whatever they're called. I thought maybe she vacuum sealed it. That's too much work, too much time. I don't have that kind of time. So how far? How far in advance would you say you packed Danielle for a trip? Usually the night before, but I will start thinking about the outfits I want to bring, like in this case, when you're talking about packing for a con I know I need three distinct outfits because we're going to be photographed every day. That doesn't mean I can't rewear a pair of pants if I wanted to like, if I'm gonna like this weekend, I'm bringing a pair of black jeans and I'm bringing my Harley shirt. That's the only outfit I know for sure, is that I'm bringing my Harley shirt and a pair of black jeans. And then I usually try to bring two pairs of shoes, one I wear and one that goes in my suitcase, and that always goes on the bottom, and then I covered the shoes with some sort of bag or like put the shoes in a bag if I can, like so that the shoes aren't touching my clothes. And then I only will bring me a carry on size because if I'm only going for a weekend, I do not want to wait for a checked bag. So I have all my toiletries and small carry on sizes and um, I also like get my hair done before I go and then try not to have to do anything special to my hair while I'm there. Just my hair is what my hair is, uh, and yeah, so that's that's pretty much it. I do try to bring two pairs of shoes, so luckily I've got small feet, so they fit nicely in my carry on size bag and I don't need to worry about too much. But what about now, let me throw a wrinkle at you. What about because we go to hotels and stuff like that, do you throw in workout clothes in case you want to hit the gym? Or no, well I have not worked out in four years. I do not know why I would choose to start day No, I mean no, I would never That sounds like the opposite of fun for me. I've been very optimistic in the past, packed like a pair of running shoes and sweatpaths, and then they just sit in my bag and like, why did I do this? The only thing I would do is bring bathing suit because then you could swim and you don't have to pack as much. Are you? Are you a chuck it in the bag kind of like oh that's right, I'm leaving this morning, or do you plan? Yes? I pack very quickly. But that's actually a conscious thing, not because I it's because if I think too much about it, I overpack. And I've realized I have never ever felt underpacked. I've always felt overpacked. So in other words, if I forced myself to only bring two shirts and a pair of pants, I'm fine, Like once I'm there, and like even in the worst case scenario where like I've been at sundance and wasn't warm enough. You can buy a sweatshirt, you know, for twenty bucks or whatever if you really need it, Like you can figure out your situation. And like, especially now in the age of phones, like you don't the thing I do pack too much of his books. I always pack four or five books, and I never allowed one carry on. Yeah, it's reminders there, the whole other thing a book. But like, yeah, when it comes to clothing, I try and do it within five to ten minutes, as quickly as possible and just as bare bones, because every time I've brought too many clothes, I end up having like less fun because I'm paralyzed by choosing what to wear or you know, whereas and then you're dealing with it all the time, Whereas like if you just force yourself to pack very light, you're fun. You always end up okay. So that's my little loss. What about you, Well, I'm right in the middle of both of you. I will I, you know, have one specific bag I pack. I kind of know what I'm doing now, I've kind of got it down to a science. But Sue got me a new dop kit for Christmas and it's awesome. So that's I'm almost having. I'm one of those people where I almost spend more time packing my carry on for the stuff that I want to bring with me. That's more fun than clothes, where I'm like, I always kind of wear the same pair of jeans and you know, throw on a shirt, have a sweater. I do go to the gym when I'm at the I try to go every day when I'm at the hotel, so I have to bring one or two different sets of workout clothes and then workout choose. But yeah, other than that, I'm kind of in the middle of both of you. So I was curious. Hmm, I'm looking forward to the gym. Yeah, you're good at that. You'd like to run. You run outside my house every day you're you're at Daniel usually you used to see Adler out there before Adler was in school. Yeah, he was always out there raking or shoveling or you'd like to keep him literally and he'd wave. He'd wave like like you were running by the guy who's just you know, he's raking it, and he'd just go hey, like hey, how you doing like the middle of the work day. You caught me, buddy. Um. He was really cute. Yesterday we were in the car and I was listening to a recap episode that I'm editing, and he goes, Mommy, that's you, and I said, yeah, that's that's me. And he goes, this is your work and I said, yeah, this is this is one of this is one of my jobs. And he goes, and your friends and I said, yes, writer and will and he goes wow. And then he was really happy about that. And then at night last night before bed, he wanted me to read him like a third book. And I said, well, which book do you want me to read you? And he said Frog and Toad And I said, oh, Frog and Toad. I said, as a matter of fact, Addler, you just today we're talking about writer Writer Alex and Indie gave you this book. And he went like so excited that I was like, yes, Indie. So anyway, you guys have been the others starting to understand our work. It's very cute. Well, welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm writer Strong, and I'm Wilfride. So throughout our time on Boy Meets World. We had the honor of working with writers, directors, and producers who single handedly changed family television, creatives whose body of work is expansive and legendary, and this week we are talking to one of those types. David Kendall was the executive producer and showrunner of Boy Meets World for seasons two and three and would go on to direct thirteen episodes right up until the end. He wrote one episode, back to School, which is a script we will definitely want to talk to him about. And before joining us, he was an EP on a little show called Growing Pains, which he wrote thirty three episodes of Isn't That Incredible? Since then, he has directed episodes of I Carle Victorious, Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide, Even Stevens, Hannah Montana, and he co created Melissa and Joey, a show that ran for over one hundred episodes on ABC Family Slash free Form. He's directed two pilots on Disney Channel, both shows I had the honor of directing myself Coop and Cammy, Asked the World and Sydney to the Max. We genuinely had to ignore a ton of his credits for this intro or we would be here all day. He's worked directly with all the actors now running Hollywood, from Austin Butler to Ariana to Miley to the Joe Bros. To Zendaiah and over forty different series, six hundred episodes of TV and two hundred plus as a director. If only he was given a chance, you know, such a shame. Please welcome to Pod meets World. The impressive David Kendall. Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness, he can hear you. Goodness. Okay, you want to see me too? I do, Yes, your face hear them. Hey David, Hey, David, Hey, how are you doing? Oh good? I wish I could hug you guys. This is no virtus a hugmout. I'll put a hug in the chat there. You put a link to a hug chat. First question, you famously ruined boy meats. Where I'll talk about that? Yes, well, I'd like to call a drop shock. Yes, actually we should really start with that since you wrote the episode. Is the only episode that I wrote? That? Is that true? Only episode that has my name on it? Right? Oh? You know, when you're running a show, it's it's I think you know you should let the staff write the episodes. I think. So that was my philosophy. So, um, yeah, but you you came in as an ep right away. I came in. Um. If you remember, there was a first season, and probably something that you guys didn't know is that the second subsequent subsequent seasons weren't exactly a lock. You know. They the network wanted to make sure that, um, the show had a longer life, and they kind of, um, kiddeyness for one of a better term. I'll find a better term when we really do this. This is the practice recording. Um. They didn't think that could sustain And Um, I was on a show for six years called Growing Pains, Yes, and which was a little show called Growing Only. The entire reason Boys World existed, yeah because of the success of Growing that is, well, I don't know if it's entirely but um yeah, Michael told me. Michael Jacobs told me at one point, because he has many different versions of stories, was that he had pitched uh boy Meet's World as Growing Pains from the point of view of the youngest kid that's heard. So uh. When Michael started uh creating some other shows, they needed a showrunner for the second season, I had growing pains as my credentials and the network like me and they wanted to age up. Was the was the mantra and it was no no means uh secure the future of Boy's World. In fact, I was in a meeting with the network in the studio. They hated the title. Everybody hated the title. We all hated the title. Wow. And it's like, what can we call the show that's not Boy Mee's World because it just sounds you know, it's hard to imagine, like now that it's iconic now, but then it was just kind of this awkward phrase. And it's like when I first heard wait a second, Wait a second. They wanted to change the title after season one. I know, that's what I say. They were willing to change it into Yes, they talked about it. They love it. Well, I guess it's like it's going from Torkelson's to almost Home. It's kind of just right branding. We could just rebrand the show. Ellen de Generes. Show was called these Friends of Mine or some friends of Mine or something in the first season and if you came so and also it's let me just speak globally. It's just amazing that we're talking about Boy Meets World in twenty twenty three. It's like, yeah, it's it was I was producing the show. What shows that? What's that? Right? What? Everything you're saying touches on exactly what we have said and the way based on the way we felt at the time, which was we always felt like we were on the bubble, like we were at any point in time going to be canceled. It was there was no security job security for anybody anywhere. Um. And also we felt like we were recording a show for our grandparents because no one really knew the show, what the show was, Yes, and we didn't know that there were young people whose lives we were forming and it's just so cool. Uh. And yeah, we did have a show where every season we waited for a call from the governor to pardon us for the next season, they're about to flip the switch, and then it was like, well, we'll give them one more. Well, but so I actually asked this question when we're recording a couple weeks ago, but dude, are were we picked up for the full order for second season? Where were we only? But it still was they wanted the show to have a longer future like growing pains, and so that was part of the reason or a big reason that well aging it up, and h you know, I've heard you guys talk about the drop shock of second season, but I think even all the changes we did, we still stayed true or true ish to the characters and people were watching the same characters. And I do listen to your podcast, and it's nice to hear that you guys are more comfortable and liking the stuff in the second season, because honestly, you know, I was listening to the the episode where you're talking about the show I wrote the only one with my name owners writer, and it's just I could hear you guys, you're mentally throwing up. Yeah, it was super disoriented, it was, for sure, it was. But also one of the things we loved about it was how many new character characters you guys were able to introduce in that first episode and still make it all makes sense. I mean, it was very disorienting, but it was still a great episode with introducing so many new iconic characters. Well, writer, you're disoriented when the classroom faces the other way, so everything everything. Did you remember that first episode because it seemed like when we we we were talking about it, I was like, this must have been crazy behind the scenes because we had like nine new characters and so many storylines and new sets. It was just it seemed like a lot. Yeah, I watched it last night actually to to rewatch, and some things I remember crisply and precisely, and some things was was I there, I don't remember right, But you know, we tried a lot of things that the stuff with the Thugs worked great, H and H. Introducing Tony Quinn it just worked great. That was a great way to meet him, a great way to set up the relationship with Phoene, and the relationship between Turner and Uh and Ben was great. And so many things worked. I was looking at it last night saying, so many things worked. But yeah, it was like that was the charge age up the show, introduced new characters, put it in a different world. There were influences. UH Friends was an influence just to have to flesh out the the twenty something characters that that Tony represented and Um also there was another tremendously successful show called Happy Days, and it was just a flavor of that element with the show and make it a fun place for kids to hang out and grow up in in the show and in the audience. So Happy Days was a conscious reference that you were told. Okay, because because we've talked about how the Thugs have the sort of throwback vibe to them. He's sort of old school high school bully, and we've said it's like a happy Day's ish thing. Yeah, that we're interesting. Yeah, I have a I have a question. Um, so in all these meetings before season two starts, you're getting all your marching orders from the network and we want to age it up. We want to do all this stuff. Ever a talk of dropping any or all of the three of us. Oh, no, okay, just checking his dad to be you're very badly in some ways. I am Will's dad. Do they know that story? Well, yeah, they don't know this story yet. We will get into that story of David still being my dad. Yeah. Yeah, but no, was if they were like, we don't you know the Eric it's the Chucky Cunningham the Eric character, or we're not gonna get bring to Panga back. I mean, Ryder was probably fine well with Corey and Sean, but we did you know, because you're physically related to it's usually you have that established bond between best friends where they're not gonna you know, they tried so hard to bring in a third best friend. They weren't going to bring in you know, somebody else. But especially with Eric in the first season kind of lifted out to Panga could have disappeared. Yeah, I mean we saw it happen, So it was I was wondering if that if that had been discussed at any level. Well, no, the the discussions were well, Michael said something on very stage, you said, the show is about how Ben and Ryder are, Corey and and un shown are the same and how they're different. It's about their differences in their similarities, which was a template for for the show and it's template for for finding stories. And then Uh, we were all very serious about making to Panga integral to the show and that it was about Corey having a friend and a girlfriend and watching those relationships developed. And that's really what the show was about. To me, those best episodes are uh in that in that arc in that you know Trio and uh and but we loved the way that will that you evolved. It was like, we got to find a place for this guy. This guy punted this guy so funny that that's quere that we got to find something for this guy to do and a little bit more than just the um. See. I hate when you say, oh, that's the dumb guy, that's the dumb character. I always say they think differently. They're either a beat behind that take come to it that way. You don't want to make a joke that's dumb. You want to make a joke that sees that's different. There's a great joke where I don't I don't think you've done the episode. It's the radio station one where Phoenie opens the door and sees you know, Benn and Rider, and Rider says, don't move, maybe he doesn't see us. Yeah, And that's that's to me. That's not a dumb jokes to me, it's a guy thinking differently. So uh. But anyway, Will's character Eric is like, what can we well can we what can we do? How can we fit in and just have a guy who can just go nuts and just be big and make you believe it. I mean a lot of times actors can go big and you just don't believe it. But you know, commitment is what makes the beat, the bit makes at work and you know will fredellt Uh. He knows how to commit. It makes something. No one is more committed than Will truly, it's middle name, it's William Allen. Because I was going to say, anybody one of us needs to be committed. Yea, when the straight lines are hanging out there, it's hard. So I think you kind of answered this, but I want to ask Larry specifically. Were you brought in by Michael first and then approved by the network, or were you by the network. I had not met Michael, I had not known Michael, so I was the network's choice, and uh, you know he accepted. We got along guys who had been roughly doing that I did in the first season. We're Ed Dector and John Strauss and they are like my best friends. We talk all the time. Really yeah. Yeah, I went to college with Ed. Uh. John and I've lived close to each other for a while, and like I had breakfast every day for you know, millions of years. I have very fond memories of that. I haven't seen them for years, but I thought to Ed yesterday, oh please, we have to we have to reach out. Yeah, it's a great guy. And uh. And so they were kind of happy to get out, honestly, and I was looking forward to running that show. I'd seen the episodes. I thought I didn't like all the stories because I thought that these aren't the type of stories that are going to sustain a primetime show for for years and years, And that's what ABC wanted. And I was, you know, I was installed by ABC and you know, with Michael's approval, and we met. Yeah, And at the time, if I remember correctly, Michael was also trying to start other shows. Ye see right, so he was off. Actually he would like leave our set for a week or two because he would be working another show. Right. So what were those shows? Do you guys remember what they were? Was it maybe this time? Was it maybe this time? At that point? Yet every year for like two or three years there, he was creating the Genie Show. At one point, you wish maybe maybe next time or whatever that was maybe this time? Um, but yeah, he was he Loves Company, Misery Loves Company. He also did Zoe Duncan, Jack and Jane. I mean, he had a bunch of shows while we were going, um, which which was yeah, we never he would kind of pop in and pop out during that second season in the third season when we moved down to KTLA, we didn't see him that much. Yeah, okay, so that was where he really Yeah, well, because I remember there was a period where you were giving notes and like, yeah, you were running the show, and it was like, well we would see Michael every couple of weeks or maybe on tape night. But to be fair, who wants to go to KTLA? Yeah, it was a rough That was a rough time. You hadn't started yet because we were in writer's mode when we went there and got the new offices, and it was either the first or second day where someone said, everybody staying inside their offices. There's a shooting in the building across the street, so everybody, you know, getting their offices, and it was we sit there and look at each other and be like, which strip club should these kids go to to have a lot today. That's where we started getting lunch delivered, right, because at Disney we would go to the commissary, yeah, or there would be stuff. There was literally and the two I got the Tuesday morning buffet at the local strip club is really sad. I got to be totally honest with you. It's gotten better. They've redone those studios, right, they're called something Else now I'm secure. Yeah yeah, and they have a nice commissary because their Netflix. Yeah yeah, thank god. Okay, So I also I'm dying to know. I want to know how did you get growing paints? How did you start there? Okay? My career, I was uh, living in New York and wanted to work in film and TV. Wanted to direct on everybody wants to direct. I can see nods in these boxes. Yeah, nut will no desire yea. And it was nineteen eighty five and I wrote an episode of a show called The Cosby Show. And saying Cosby in nineteen eighty five is very different from saying Cosby now. So I wrote a spec Cosby script. Through social contacts, I met an agent and she her name is Phillis Wonder. We're still in touch even though she's retired. And she said, I have some contacts in LA. And I realized that at some point, if I was going to stay in the industry, I needed to know what LA was like. So I came out with my spec Cosby script. Stayed on Ed Dector's couch and other ed and Lightning Struck and the first producer that read it hired me and it was for this show called Growing the aforementioned Growing Pains, and I went in with as a green writer with no credits, and I stayed there six years. I went, you know, all the way up the food chain, and I ended up being a co executive producer and your first ever projects project. But I sometimes leary to tell that story because then people will hate me. But I can assure you I've been beaten up and have had many uh lump's career wise, but that was a that was a hell of a peak. Yes, but and that was great fun because it was a great show. I had wonderful mentors. Did The show runner, head writer Dan Gunselman, just taught me everything. Another executive producer, Mike Sulliman. He came from the network, so I learned network stuff from these two guys. They were amazing mentors and they said, you're not a story editor, you're in producer school. So that was kind of what I've tried to do when I've run shows is just treat the staff as if they're in producer school. But it was amazing. I left there knowing multi camera production inside and out. It was great. And then had a development deal where I failed miserably. So I wrote some pilots, shot some pilots, nothing out on the air. So at the end of that, I hear ABC. You know, they still like you, they want you on the show called the Boy Meets World, and I looked at it. I said, this could be fun. Wow. Okay, So then you come to Boy Meets World. Yes, do you like the episodes you've seen, but you don't necessarily love all the stories. What are your first impressions of all of the cast? How professional you guys were, How you seem very real, How you seem to intuitively understand your characters. And it was kind of I won't say easy to write for, but it's like, oh, okay, they can do this. This is great. So it was you gotta love your characters. Yeah, and it helps if you love your actors and and you guys are great. And hey, look we're still talking. It's twenty five years later and we got long. I'm still in touch with all you guys, you know, so it's amazing. A little known fact David Kendall. I shadowed David Kendall, and David Kendall was very instrumental in me starting my directing career because after Girl Meets World, where I had directed four episodes, I tried for two straight years basically for people to take me seriously as a director, and nobody really wanted to. Nobody was willing to take the risk on me. And then Mark Reasman, who created the show Sydney to the Max for Disney Channel, was willing to take a chance on me. But he flat out told me in our meeting David Kendall directed my pilot and if it were up to me, David Kendall would direct every single one of my episodes, but they won't let me do that. So and then we, you know, spent a long time talking and he ended up deciding he was going to give me a couple episodes to direct, but he very in the nicest way possible, told me he would feel a lot more comfortable if I came and shadowed David Kendall. And I was like, well, the good news is I know David Kendall very well, and so David is one of my mentors. Yeah, I saw too. You didn't know I was shadowing you. It's called stalking. Will right done with the place, Thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, no, I shouted, David too. I you know, it's funny. You're one of the few people I know of that has worked in television on both sides, like whereas a writer, producer and a director. Most people usually, you know, stay on one side of that line, but you've crossed it a bunch of times, and in fact, more than anything, you mostly consider yourself a director nowadays. Right if you my DNA, I'm I'm a writer, and I think writer is the most important thing because without a script, nothing but um, it's more fun to direct. And uh, I have a blast directing. I never have a bad day directing. Often writing and producing running a show, you'll have many bad days. Yeah, you get the bad phone calls if you're an episodic director where it's someone else's show, it's just the you know. I joke that it's the difference moved parenting and grandparenting, that writing and producing a show is like parenting with all the stresses, and it's you know, it's miserable, but you'll love your kids so much and you do anything for him, and grandparenting is like, yeah, they're done at the end of the week. The head I'm not there, but that's how I like him. Yeah, that's how you think of it. Yeah, that's great. Wow, that's amazing. Did you ever bring in any guest stars from Growing Pains? Like, did you ever? We talk a lot about how Michael was really loved to reuse actors that he was familiar with and that he knew when you started running, boy meant world, did you have like a group of people you went to for things. I can't remember if we had anybody. I don't know, I have to yeah, I can nothing. Nothing at top of mind. Nothing, I don't think so. Actually, I'm thinking of the cast of Growing going through the cast of Growing Pains in my head, and I don't think we had anybody. I mean, maybe somebody that had done both shows, you know, yeah, yeah, not a guest cast, but no, but none of the none of the regulars I don't think came on. And also that I think that a lot of the the cast of Growing Pains it didn't do another ABC Family show for a while. It was like, let's get out of this for a while. I have a question when when you got the marching orders, everybody got the marching orders to age up the show. Was anybody against that? Did anybody say no, we don't want to do that or did it? It sounds like it would make sense to kind of age it up a little bit. And yeah, the stories in the tone of the first season was not sustainable for a primetime show, right, and you know the show ran seven years. You know, I don't I can't imagine those stories. You know, we had the show had to grow up, everybody to grow up, and it was a little bit of a of a big change, but I think it was I think it was worth it. And uh um, yeah, last night I looked at the first one, the only one I wrote, and the first one I directed, which was the end of the first season where writers starts, uh, Sean starts living with the Matthews and then ends up at Turners. Anyway, it was a lovely episode. Is at the end of second season the end of second season? Yeah, the second season is he's uh, I'm getting ahead of your rewatch. But yeah, I didn't know. I didn't realize Sean was already running away second season end of the Sea. I guess it makes sense because Tony was only there for what two three season until the end of the third or so. Yeah, so it's we were trying to figure out all the timeline and that was the first episode you had ever directed, right, Oh, no, I had when I was on Growing Pains. There was a spinoff of Growing Pains called Just the Ten of Us, okay, and we had a house director for Growing Pains, John Tracy, who directed the Past and so h we did not have a house director for Just a ten of Us. And so I got my first directing assignment at Just the Ten of Us and that was my first and and then directing you guys was my second. Wow. When I came back after running the show and I came back in the directing rotation, that's when I really started to direct a lot more. And you guys were so important to me as as developing as a director because I knew you guys, you trusted me, you could I could talk to you guys, and so it just allowed me the freedom and the security in this your environment to direct. So I felt after directing a bunch of those blomous world it really helped me and gave me confidence and gave me fluency in directing. So thank you, And you've done now two hundred plus episodes of television. I have directed two hundred plus episodes of television, all told as a writer, producer, director, six hundred hundred television over forty different series. Because I am very old, Wow, and we're still We're still your favorite. Yes, we should also talk a little bit about how this was the end of an era when it came to television, because the idea of a network coming in and saying, we really like this show, we want to change it a bit and tweak it because we wanted to have longevity and we want it to grow. That doesn't just anymore. Yeah, they don't let stuff grow anymore. You do a few episodes of something, we hated it and they cancel it. I mean it's so rare nowadays to see something that you know they believe in and they want they want to have grow, they want to have change, they want to build a night. That's something that is so old school TV. And I think we caught that right at the end. All the biggest shows in television history, Mash Cheers, I mean, you name it, The Office, even new stuff, they were gonna be canceled, but the network went, no, let's let's change it. I think we can find an audience. We're gonna move a night. We're gonna do this, We're gonna do that. That's just gone. So I mean that's it. It shows. I mean, it just shows what you can find when you give something a chance to find itself and find its audience. Yeah. Giving show a chance to grow is not what we do so much anymore. So, Yeah, which is a shame. Yeah. Yeah. What were your experiences with Bill Daniels? Like Bill was, Bill can be tough. I eventually bonded and I love him and I'm still in touch with Bill and Annie And did you see my uh I saw it? Yes, So for those listening, it's there's a prop from the show where new principle is Weenie. So yes, and that's the origin, that's the original one. That's well, I guess it's one of the original ones. Yes, yes, I'm sure they made a bunch. I can keep it in my bedroom so I can be reminded every day. So Bill eventually, because Bill, I think, likes to test people a little bit or make sure that they're they're savvy. And so once we got past that, it was It's a great relationship and it still is. And um, you know, there's just to direct Bill Daniels is just great into and to give him an idea or a thought and to see that he thinks, oh, I'll do that because this person's not an idiot is a great sense of satisfaction. So yes, yeah, it was a Bild's amazing. Bill's amazing. Do you have a favorite episode of Boy Meets World? I do not. Yeah, I just I remember scenes in moments and and also attached them to the experiences in the writer's room. Yeah, and uh, which is an amazing thing. And if you haven't been a part of it in a in a series, it's really one of those things it's impossible to describe. But you know, we had a great writer's room too. We had just great people. That's I think enough. Part of the reason of the show's success, in addition to how how great you guys are, is we had people who just worked hard and love the show. So yeah, it was it was a good It was a good group. Well, we mentioned in your intro that you have gone on to direct all A listers when they were kids, Austin Butler's and diah Miley, Ariana Grande. What do those stars haven't have in common when they were kids? Liked what was the secret sauce of those kids. I think the secret sauces is stay secret. But but you can tell if someone really got it. Well sometimes sometimes, uh, you know, like with Miley Cyrus, who I did the first few episodes of Hannah Montana and she was very green. She didn't know what a fifty fifty was, she didn't know where to stand, and she she didn't know how to cheat it out. And but you know, you just talked to her and you just see the progress bar going, you know, quickly, and then you just watch a run through where it's time to perform, and there's just that little extra, just that little extra, and you know that was not a surprise that she became big. I mean, who knows how big she was gonna be the same with Ariana, just there's a little extra spark that sometimes sometimes you can tell and it's uh, some people and I won't name names, so it's just like I can't believe they're huge. But a lot of times, a lot of times it's like, oh, yeah, that's no surprise. Yeah. I mean Brad Pitt was on Growing Pains and yeah, yeah he was, and that was like, okay, you know, three one Superstar yeah, but Leo Leonardo DiCaprio also on Growing Pains. Yeah, Leo, I was not. I did six of the seven years I had left in Leo k Man. You know, I was still at Warner Brothers, so you know, I met him a few times with the other cast, but Leo was there not my year. I did not work with Leo. Were you involved in the casting process of all the new people in the episode you wrote back to School? Yeah, I mean all all the producers where I mean, Sally Steiner, You're wonderful casting director. I'm still in touch with them. And then I think Barbie didn't Barbie Block didn't start with her till this season. After that, I think, yeah, yeah, she brought in people and it was you know, me and Michael and a couple of the other producers and then of course the networking studio input. But yeah, I was in on it. It was a you know, a group decision, uh, you know, and network has always gone away and especially about important things like who mister Turner was going to be. I'm so glad you said that. Okay, I just want one quick question. So the you're talking about, like the network and notes from the network, did did you get any I mean, obviously they wanted to make a radical change or what what would appear to be a radical change between season one and season two. Were there any overall network notes between seas in two in season three that they wanted changes for or was it kind of like, no, you guys have found it now, just keep doing what you're doing. It was that was it? No, you guys have found it now, and and and I think we did. And I think that to me, usually in a show, third season is often the creative peak. It's like the first season it starts to get off the grounds, the second season, at Gail's, third season at peaks, fourth season, it's a little off peak. Fifth season, it's, yeah, there's still some good in there. In sixth season, it's like, why are we still doing this? So not always not always the case, you know, but that seems to be a general pattern of of of television. But but you know, you can survive if you're starting to do if you open up the world, which boy means world did wonderfully, you know, with you and uh and Matt and Maitland. I mean that was great and just kind of expanding the worlds that you know, exploring the college in general. Yeah, yeah, that was great because that was it was still the same show. Sometimes when a show becomes a different show, it doesn't quite work. Let's do something really different. It usually doesn't work, but let's take the dynamics that work and just put them in different arenas. So we were also two seasons in before they even made Corey and Topango a thing, So that then took the show in an entirely different direction. That kind of became the core of the show. So we didn't even find that until what thirty forty five episodes. In fifty episodes in, it was found is maybe the not the best work because it was like, we're waiting to do that. We knew we were going to go, so you do you knew you were gonna go. So even with Danielle when she was, you know, kind of a guest cast quote unquote guest cast, um you, Corey and Topango was already planned. That was a thing at the start of the second season. It was I don't know what about the first season, but the second season, let's let's do this slowly because we want to you know, the show run for a while. Yeah, they're really good together. Danielle really pops. She's fantastic and their chemistry is good and uh, let's do this slowly and one step forward, one step back, to step sward, one step back. Cool. Yeah, yeah yeah. What can you tell us And what do you remember about the casting of Tony for mister Turner. I remember a lot of guys came in and just Tony just nailed it. He was warm, he was funny, he had a great presence, and it wasn't like, well, how about this guy? Was like Tony came in and read and I can't remember the other names, but it was like, okay, Tony, it's it's going to be Tony. I didn't realize that Michael had worked with him before, honestly, right, so he just he just nailed it. And so how much of mister Turner's character and getting involved with Sean's character and that story arc that ends up happening, how much of that was planned from the beginning, and how much of that was like natural evolution? I think it was natural evolution because also you don't know how the new character is going to click and how the chemistry is going to be, and then I can't remember all of the thinking that went into it. But you know, if we established Sean's home life as being kind of weird and not necessarily healthy and taking the approach of walking the line of making that funny and also taking the character seriously, and it was like, this is a good relationship. Let's let's try this right. Wow, Now, as you're coming up with these stories, I'm curious because Michael is kind of popping in and out right. You know, is the room and knew are you kind of guiding where the stories are going and Michael's coming in and kind of saying like, yeah, that works, or is he coming in and saying no, We're going to switch this up? Or I mean, would he come in and change things? Would he help guide? I mean what was kind of what was he doing at the time, because I knew it was involved with other projects. For most of what I remember is I'm running the room and it's like, let's talk about story areas, let's talk about arcs, let's talk about general directions. Let's write up a beat sheet to get Michael on board and then get the network to improve it, in the studio to improve it. So it was really you know, lots of steps, but in the day to day. I was running the room. Sometimes Michael would be there, but it was it was mostly me and you know, and and the great our great writing staff. Wow, it wasn't great staff. Yeah, we had we had um we got along. It was just a fun energy. There was one story that because I was thinking about this, where um, we all know Jeff Minell, he's been a guest, yes, and um, I can't remember who started it. It was he was being picked on for maybe eating more than he should and it's just you know, Jeff, you gotta watch your cholesterol. So there was a writer's room pool on pick Mannell's cholesterol. Who come cholesterol? So we got one of those home tests and we all you know, write that, wrote down our numbers, and I remember I won. And so with the money that I won, I wrote a check to the American Heart Association because I told Jeff, I don't want your blood money. So that's amazing. So that was kind of the energy of the writer's room. Did you ever feel I mean, I'm sure you felt pressure, but did that pressure like, did you ever feel I don't know how knowing that it was basically handed to you. Your job is to turn this season one kiddie show, turn the ship around, turn it into a more aged up show that's going to get us many many years. Like did you ever feel the pressure of that? Did that ever get to you? Or did you did you just have so much confidence that you knew what to do that it was fine. Well, you know, it wasn't me solo. You know, Michael's there, the network's there, we had a good staff, and but I was confident that I think I know how to do this. So um, but it's it's always pressure. It's always pressure. It's it's no matter what if you're if you're running a show, it's like, yeah, you're going to be the person who picks the words that will fuel this machine that spends millions and millions of dollars and oh yeah, and be funny, right, universally funny something we can all agree is funny. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, So yeah, there was pressure. And you know it's uh staying on budget. The way it worked at the time at the at Disney as every quarter I would be summoned to Disney and and uh they look at the budget and say you're you're you're four percent over budget, where you'd wow, and i'd say, you know, it's ninety six percent good. You know, I'd like anything am doing. Okay, so we'll use it one less guest star and have less trees, Okay, you know, okay, Right, well, that's what I was gonna ask. I mean often we guest guest cast. Just cast must have been the most expensive component, right, yeah, there was there. That was you were we were limited until who we could. I mean I've heard you guys to discuss, you know, where's where Stepango this week? What happened? How come this person come back? Money is a factor, but it's also pages. It's you know, it's if the sitcom script, it's forty five pages and a story. The a story is going to take thirty pages, and it's about you know, uh, Eric and Corey, and it's just uh uh we have to make sure that Sean is something to do, so let's find that and uh and of course you have to find something for a Bill to do, and Resty and Batsy, the parents so character it's it's a lot of things to uh to fit in. Now that that's you mentioned Bill. So that's one one question I wanted to ask you because it seems like you know, he's brought on as the principal essentially in the in the second season, so he's not in the classroom. Um, and it seems like he has kind of a smaller role this year than he did season one. Was that also something that was planned or I mean, because again you want to age it up, but you want to you know, age it up for the kids. Was it was it kind of like, hey, we're gonna just move Bill to the side a little bit more than we did last year. It was more like when you have to other characters to service. If you're going to go to school, you'll have that many scenes and pages in school, and if you're going to do the faculty, you have another faculty member to serve and introduce. And I'd like to think, yeah, if you probably looked at the screen time that Bill had first versus second season, he had less than the second season. But I'd like to think that the stuff he did was as meaningful. Yeah, and that his presence, I mean, Bill could be in seven pages and you'd feel him through the whole show. Yeah, you know that just that stronger presence. But there was never anything else, you know, we need less Bill. It was never that it's just this is what we have to do to make the show run lots of years, and it's what we have to introduce. And uh uh, you know after the third season, you know, I was not the air, so I don't know what it was in the you know, Tony and other parts and who was coming and who was going. You know, I would come back to direct. Yeah, I came back to direct. But it's like, okay, here's the strip, right, all right, So why why did you leave? I had other opportunities to do stuff and led to my own show that got on the air that didn't last. But it was a tough decision because I, you know, missed and bonded with you guys. That's why I was. It was real happy, very happy. When Blackman and bus Gang, who were running it after I had left, Mark and Howard said would you want to come back and do it was like hell yeah. Before they got the end of the sentence and and you guys welcome me back. It wasn't like, you know, what the hell are you doing here? Grudge holders you Yeah, yeah, I didn't. I didn't sense any of that. If you, if you did, you hit it, well, I'm curious how much of our conscious brains, like understood like director. I mean, we definitely knew directors versus writers versus producers, but like you showing up to direct we were probably like, oh, you've been here this whole time. Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't at least to another thing. I've heard you guys talk about things that happened that you are not privy too, or things not being explained or just hey you gotta kiss this personnel, and I apologize for not being sensitive to that, and uh, it's just I listened to it. I go, man, why did I think of that? So though, sorry for being part of putting you guys through that. So no, it's it's all part of the culture at the time, you know. It's it's definitely it's hard to you can't really single any one personnel responsibility for that sort of thing. It was just the vibe, you know. And that's yeah, that's why being a child actor's hard. Yeah, you don't have control over sometimes we treated the child actors like there were children, so yes, but also in an adult in an adult role, so's. Yeah, it's a very it's a it's a strange balance that we again when you're in it and you've been doing it for we all started when we were so young that it was just normal. For it was all just a normal kind of thing. It's looking back with the eyes of an adult that you kind of go, oh, maybe that wasn't normal for a twelve year old, you know that kind of stuff. So well, also, there was definitely there There's always been an idea of well, that's their job, that's what actors do. Well, you do whatever's on the page, and and it's only you know, like Will said, now as adults looking back on it and it being us, uh that I think, you know, we're able to go, hey, yeah, it was our job. But also first before professionals were children. Um, and I think now people think about that, you know, way from the beginning, like, these are people, these are real children, and let's address those concerns and needs first and then we can talk about the professional aspect of it and the job aspect of it. But that's just you know time. But yeah, things that we're talking about, we've talked about it on this podcast. How for the life of the child actor is constantly growing, evolving and getting better. Yes, you know, from back in the day when you're when the kids were on set for twenty five hours and doing their own stunts and and too. You know what we went through, which was was mostly a very positive experience all the way around to now where it's very much about making sure that everybody's safe and healthy and working with kids it's its own thing. You have to treat them, remember their kids, treat them respectfully like adults. But we are here to work and I feel really good. I mean, we're all still in touch. And yeah, absolutely, you know absolutely, you know I've said this before. I feel like I've about forty nieces and nephews out there from the shows I've done. And one son, I was gonna say, on one son with me, can you guys tell the story? Well you want me to tell? Well, yes, how I remember so, I remember we were so the Nancy Kerrigan was coming on to do the dream sequence, and of course we had to go and shoot the sequence in Lake Placid where you guys got to go in the field together. Yes, it was beautifully warm, sunny, happy time. It was like negative sixty degrees um and we flew there. It was it was David and Karen McCain. McCain the line producer, wonderful line producer, incredible line producer, and the three of us went and was it at a restaurant? Was it in the airport? Where did this happen? It was in the airplane because you were I was sitting with Karen and you were a row ahead of us, and they asked it didn't did they ask you or they asked you tell the stories. I can't remember exactly what happened. The steward, Uh, clearly he fancied Will, and I wanted to make sure that it Will was alone before pursuing further conversation, and said, is that your father referring to me? And I was not his father. So from that moment, that moment on, yeah, he's being what always like, how you doing, son? I'm like, I'm good, Dad, I'm good. Happy birthday. Yeah, I really get Happy birthday, Son. I get all this stuff. So David Kendall is my producer TV daddy. Yeah, okay, you guys bonded on that trip. I remember you guys came back and you were like fast friends for the rest of the show. Was so funny. Yeah, we had inside so jealous because it's such a good time. Yeah, it was. It was. It was a lot of fun. It wasn't It was just because it was an experience just being in the field, you know, it was an experience. Yeah, but Will didn't get to go to Disney World, so let's not bring up the fun Lake Plastic trip because he didn't get to go to Disney. I wasn't going to bring it up. Danielle. It was going to be water under a really cold bridge. Okay, David, I have a very important question for you, and I think you're the perfect person to answer it. Would Danielle Harris who played t K? Would Danielle Harris have been back had Danny McNulty stuck around for longer? Like would was their potential for Danielle Harris to be more of a recurring guest cast because she was so incredible as TK. She was great. But I it was a wonderful one off story. Yeah, but if we had to honor that character and bring her back, it would have taken up a lot of pages and a lot of stories. Yeah, I can't remember that being as wonderful as it was. There's sometimes there's great one off stories that hum when you're in the room trying to come up with stories that keeps the the engine going in the main dynamics. That was not one of them. That would have been that's a spin off, that's right. I also, you know, a couple since we watched that episode and talked about a couple of people have sent us behind the scenes Danielle Harris, Like there's some YouTube video of like hole behind the scenes about her, And I feel like in some ways we were kind of lucky to get her. Yeah, I feel like she probably wouldn't you know, she was like it was she came on as a guest star to like do her one big episode, but I feel like she was doing movie after movie after show after. I feel like she's the kind of person that you would have had to like create an entire show. She wouldn't have wanted us. She wouldn't have wanted us. Yeah, to be a secondary or tertiary character in our show, and there's filming people to serve. It would have been a lot of story and a lot of pages. And if someone's talking, someone else isn't, you know, right, So I have a question for you, because you're obviously you've done the six hundred episodes of television, been involved in and being a television to hallic myself. Is there a show that you really wanted to direct or beyond that you didn't get a chance to where it was like that's oh man, I wanted to do that. A lot of shows, you know, it's like, oh I could. I couldn't make that work? I could, I could do that. I don't really think like that that hard because it's just, you know, what's in front of me. What am I getting to do? Because it's a great privilege to be on a set and talk to the actors and work the story and make it work visual. But it's not like there's at this holy grail or work thing. I just don't think like that. Sorry for the disappointing answer. No, No, not at all. It's a great answer. It's a great answer. How far ahead were scripts done? Like three or four weeks? They're probably you know, you have your outlines, you have your first drafts, you have revised drafts, so we're probably six or eight ahead. I like to be ahead a lot because I don't like that less minute stuff. So I'm trying to be uber organized and meticulous and let's get ahead, Let's get ahead, let's get ahead. So usually six to eight and the whole season is outlined before we start, right like, no, no, no, it's not ideas, some ideas and some sense of where the arcs are. But you know, nowadays in the world of binging, you want to go in with with the arcs set and really firm, so you know where the kind of milestone and the big moments are so you can, uh, you know, keep the audience through. But in our world where we had just general arcs mostly about Corey and to Pang in terms of their relationship, and then another not so much an arc, but just kind of diving deep into what Shahn's going through and how that's affecting him and what stories we can get it out of that. So it was it's like we had room to see what was working and you know, who knew that that the thugs were going to work in episode one, you know, right? Yeah, and how much they added to the show and uh, I bought my Harley T shirt yesterday. Yeah. Were there any ideas that you remember for the show that like you really wanted that then didn't end up going through. Oh yeah, we had a really nice um episode in the first season. I think Mark Bleatman might have mentioned it, but he remembered it a little bit differently, where Corey gets to throw out the first pitch at the Phillies game and injures, you know, Lenny Deistro, the star Philly, so he's like Verboating and he's like the goat of Philadelphia. So I thought that was a nice story, but that would have involved using actual major league uniforms and Disney didn't want to pay for that in the logos. The story died because we couldn't use major league uniforms. But I always thought, especially early on, you know it's my first year, it's like, this is a great story. This is about It's about Philadelphia. It's about the kid that love sports. It's just the comically funny that with the greatest honor the kids ever had in his life, turns into you know, he's the the the goat of the city. So that was a fun story that we never got to do because they would have had to be Major League Baseball licensing fees. Wow. So funny how that works. Yeah, We've talked about Will's development a little bit, but I want to hear like because by the end of the second season, was he as crazy as he got or no, like I think second third season is when the ramp up into crazy happened and into just way out there, and you had inherited Jason Marsden as the best friend, because that would happen in first season, right, I don't remember Jason's first Yeah I was, he was in first season. Okay, I don't remember. Yeah, so the Lobster, which is the Lobster was first season and his first season, and yeah, yeah, so I guess I'm just curious. Did you ever feel this sort of with with Will's character, Like were you guys consciously developing Eric or was it like always no, we know, we just got to write funny scenes for Will. It's just gonna be. It was like, you know what's working. And also comedy writers, if something's funny, we will gravitate to it, sometimes to a default. It's like, Wow, he's making the out there stuff really worked. It's like we have our own Jim Carrey. Let's let's say it was really about his Let's feed him stuff to see if he can do it. Holy crap, he can do it. He can do more like beat it, Let's feed it. Let's and with Rusty and Betsy. What was that dynamic? Do you guys, do you remember the conversations you guys were having, because we've seen their relationship change a little bit second season, it seemed maybe a little more adult in the second season. I don't know, but but it was really you know, the show is called boy Meets World and it's on the kids point of view. It's always the kids' point of view, so the parents will always be secondary. But you need, you know, grounding parents. And they did such a great job. I mean, you totally believe that their parents, and you totally believe you know, they're both great TV parents. They're they're not your standard. I mean, Rusty had had a has a wonderful edge, but also it has a loving and warm so he was like the perfect TV dad. But you know, there were stories occasionally about them, but they were always involved with the with the kids. Oh we did do when he gets his band together, we did do that one tons good yeah, yeah, four guitarists, four guitars. Yeah, we did do that. But that was it was always secondary. Pants are always going to be secondary, and that's you know, life on a kid show for the adult actors was continuity ever talked about in the writer's room, like, we obviously notice a bunch of continuity things now because we're binging it, but you weren't binging back then, and so like, where's the yard a front yard, back yard nela sisters? Stay? Yes, you know, I don't think anybody ever watched the show and just mommy, mommy, that's not the hallway. And also I said this in Jess, but I'll use it now. It's like, you know, the they the door on the camera right, sometimes the bloyer's room. Sometimes it's the history classroom. Sometimes this their PHOENI well, the school is about seven stories tall. Every floor parent has the same layout, so they're just on different floors. I like how they put the same posters on the on every floor, just to remind everything. Mister Turner's classroom is also on the always got on all seven floors. I got mister Turner's classroom. I love that. Clearly I didn't test this theory before. There's no theory you can throw our way that we will not rip to shreds immediately. The show was designed to be twenty two minutes a week, right, Um, I'd like to know why we are so much better than Growing Pains? Do you think we are I've never watched Growing Pains. All my children will and they can't have it. I can't favor. Growing Pains was good. Growing Pains was a solid sitcom. It really solid eighties family sitcom. It really was Yeah, really okay. But here is maybe a more realistic way of framing that similar that same question. Did you ever think when you were doing season two in season three of Boy Meat's World that you would be talking about this show thirty years later? Oh? No, I mean it was really like I said, it was what show? Is that? Boy? What? And then you know, when it ran forever, it was like is that still long? So we went from what's that show? To is that? And we didn't know that we were just you know, people were loving it. I mean, I had no idea that that was the level of affection for the show, and that, you know, go to when my kids were in high school, I go to pick them up and you'd see a sign, well it means the world trivia night, Friday night. You know. Cool? Now, I know I'm hoping, but I doubt I doubt it because I'm sure it was thrown around everywhere. You said they talked about the idea of changing the name. Do you buy any chance to remember any of the alternatives? Did anybody throw anything out Corey's World, Wow, Corri's World, Okay, didn't work for Dave's World. No, Courey's World wouldn't have been a horror, it wouldn't have been terrible. No. No, I feel like the awkwardness of Boy Meets World is the reason why it's been ended up being a good title, do you know what I mean? Like it's one of those things, it's like, we got through it, and so now you can't say boy meets something without associating with this show in a weird way, and that's branded. Yeah, it's yeah. No, I think you're right. The the dissonance or awkwardness of the world's words together kind of gel and and they have stuck. Yeah. But I don't think there's a single one of us. I'll just speak for me. But I know, writer, you already said this where the first time you heard the title, you weren't like it's a terrible title. It's terrible title. So when people recognize us on the street, they never get it right. No, Boys meets the World World, It's always Boys meet World, or it's like boy I used it gets becomes word slide all the time. That's interesting. But I remember because when we all got the pilot, well you know it was it was then they send the script. It was at the untitled Ben Savage Project, which in a strange way, was a better title to me than boy Me Tworld. It was like a little weird on the show Jack led led Ken. How do you feel about the state of sitcom now? Like because it has changed, right, I mean because of Ben Jane and because of the like where are you at? Like do you miss the old days where you could just do twenty two minutes and throw away a character or do you do you like where it's going? As long as there's stuff that they'll hire me, I'm good. I mean, yeah, I like. I love multicams. I know I've heard Will talk about this a lot. I love multicams. There's just something so exciting about the live audience and doing a runthrough and and have it work great. But comedy doesn't really seem to work much on the networks now. Multicam they always say they say they want it, and I think they kind of want it. And the moment one shows up and is a hit, everybody will say, see, yep, that's exactly what's going to happen. And you know, the the Nickelodeon and Disney Channel shows. I've done a lot of those past bunch of years, and that's a lot of fun because like, they're not afraid to be funny. I think sometimes comedy is afraid to be funny and out there, and that's where that's like kind of the last bashion of sitcom. There's actually, you know, some of the Disney Channel and Nickelodeon shows that are out there, they might be skewed much younger, but it's a real sick it's it's it's it's nice to see that people are still doing good kind of TV like that. And you know when you see a Sydney to the Max sort of the kind of shows that are out there, they're really good. So it's yeah, it's it's they're what do you mean by they're not afraid to be funny? Though sometimes you know there's like too cool, you know, a really cool joke, and it's like let's go for you know, let's go for a smart a joke and not big and broad. I mean, you can be too broad. You can be too silly, sure, but uh, you know you watch you watch Friends, it's really broad. Sometimes it's great. Yeah, and and I think sometimes people are afraid of that in the networks. I mean, I don't know, I don't know what's what what what they know what they're thinking. But um, you know, there's always going to be comedy. Uh, and uh, I don't know if it's always going to be on on the networks. I don't know if there's always gonna be networks. Yeah. There's one other thing. In hearing you guys doing podcasts, I want to talk a little bit about Arlene Grayson, who is our line producer who passed away at the end of the second season, about the love she had for the show and maybe things that you guys didn't know is when we were aging up the show, taking it to high school, Arlene sat and interviewed people for background. So she met and talked to and interviews with everybody, like sitting one to one with people, and then they had to pass the Arlene test before they came a part of our background. I hear you guys talk with affection about a lot of the background and Veil's Arlene that's how much she cared. Wow, was just calling some background people. It's like, these people are going to be part of our show, you know, part of the world, part of the family. I'm going to meet them and I want to make sure that they they're okay. So that one of the many great things about the late Arlene Grayson. So that's incredible. I did not know that at all. Well, David, thank you so much for being here with us. I hope this will not be your only appearance. I hope you'll come back, and maybe you determine that, not me, so you know, well you have to agree. So I hope that you'll come back for an episode you directed, and we can maybe do a recap with you and talk about when you you directed. No, it's been fun talking to you. But after thirty years, there's something I've finally wanted to say. I have some notes. I will put them in the chat next to the Hugay, get them right away. Yeah, I mean, I think you know it's funny is that I we are all still well. I can't I won't speak for anybody else. I'm still in such I'm still in such close contact with you. It feels like this is just another conversation I get to have with you where you once again enlightened me and educated me on some things. And um, I always love talking to you. I can't thank you enough for everything you've you've brought to my life over the years and continue to bring to my life. So thank you for joining us. And we can't wait to have you you guys, and uh, you know, it's it is great. It is great to see you. Man, you believe we're doing this. It's fun. No, no, all right, we're very monkey another virtual hug. Virtual hug. Ry Kendall is such a pro. Yeah, it's like just one of those consummate pros. And when I shadowed him, it was on a show. It was very it was a single camera show. Its very hectic, very tough, no budget kind of situation. And man, he kept as cool, like he's just unbelievable, like and he makes sure that you know, watching him that week when I was following him around and seeing what he had to deal with and the kind of choices and the pressures he was under, never made anybody else's problem, you know, And like I could see it because I was shadowing, so I was alone in the room with him looking at a shot list going you're never gonna make that day, you know, And he knew it, and he would be like, what, we gotta show up, we gotta do it, we gotta do our best, we gotta you know. It was just like unbelievable. Um. Yeah, And that's why he's always worked, because he's so great. And he's also the perfect person to work with younger actors. Yeah, because of that patience and that steadfast kind of resolve that he has. It's like, it's a great person to put the helm of a show that involved young people. I can't believe that he was kind of still I mean, it's it's like we keep saying it, but like that he was still kind of new to the industry. Magaz he had done six years. But like, yeah, that the fact that he hadn't directed like one hundred episodes of television when he was doing Boy just were his second episode. But going from writing a spec script to then getting hired by your first producer and staying on that show up to then being a coep is insane. I never happens. I know it is. I mean to say it's not. The norm is like the biggest understatement, yet job in television, let alone, let your first script getting your job, let alone leading to a six year season round. Yeah, it's at a big at a big smash hit show. I mean that's insane, that's crazy. Well, I think we learned more in that episode than any other for our dear listeners. I think he explained things very well too. I mean, I find six to eight episodes ahead. Yeah, that's what I figured. Actually, wow. But I also think I also think that was when Kendall wasn't sure right right right. I think he said he was very good about making sure that we were six and eight out. I don't think that ends up being the case after he leaves. Also, Corey's World, Yeah, they wouldn't have to change much. Yeah, still be throwing us globes at every every photo shoot. Yeah, but yeah, Corey's World. I wonder what the other run disgusting writers, Oh why I really dislike it. I get, I mean it's weird because I mean, obviously boy is in the title. But I think something about making it Corey only seems a little bit of a bummer. It seems limiting to me, you know, but I guess it was. I mean it was really the whole show is Ben and around Corey. But for some reason, Boy Meet's World has a little bit more of a thematic. I mean, even though it's awkward phrasing, it sounds bigger than Yeah, I feel like more people can identify with Corey when it's called boy Meets World, if that makes sense, And if it's just Corey it's like a specific person, uh that I don't know, it's a little more limited. Maybe. Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com. And we have merch Daddy Daddy if I missed some merchandise Daddy, Pod Meets World Show not to the point where you're just doing a monologue the night of merchandise. By the end, it's just going to be forty minutes. Law the amount of people who have asked us to just compile those together, we will have to do it. We are absolutely going to have to do it. Maybe by the end of season two. Yeah, anyway, we'll send us out. We love you all. Pod dismissed Pod Meets World is an eye heart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfordelle and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, executive in Charger Production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara Supbach, producer, Jackie Rodriguez, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram at Pod Meets World Show or email us at Pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com