Jurassic Park (Sacred Cow), Jurassic World: Rebirth, M3GAN 2.0, Sorry Baby

00:00:00
Speaker 1: New Year, New me cute, But how about New Year New Money. With Experience, you can actually take control of your finances, check your FICO score, find ways to save, and get masked with credit card offers, giving you time to power through those New Year's goals you know you're going to crush. Start the year off right. Download the Experience app based on ficoscorre model. Offers an approval not guarantee eligibilit requirement in terms apply soufet to credit che which maympact you credit scores offers not available in l States. Seexperience dot com for details.

00:00:34
Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today? You're not interested in art?

00:00:37
Speaker 3: Now?

00:00:38
Speaker 2: No, Look, we're going to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation from Chicago.

00:00:44
Speaker 3: This is Film Spotting celebrating our twentieth year.

00:00:46
Speaker 2: I'm Adam Kempinar and I'm Josh Larson. On the island, We're headed to two dozen species.

00:00:52
Speaker 3: If survived there alone.

00:00:56
Speaker 1: The theme park owners did experimental work on worse ones here.

00:01:02
Speaker 3: The Jurassic Park franchise take Scarlett Johansson and us to the Island of Misfit Dinosaurs for its latest installment Jurassic World Rebirth. We've got a review plus the Killer Doll sequel Megan two point zero.

00:01:15
Speaker 4: Yes, It's me, What a Shock, etc.

00:01:20
Speaker 2: Really good movie. We'll also have a sacred fossil review of the Hino flick that started it all, Steven Spielberg's Jurassic Park, That and more. Hold on to you, but ahead on film spotting. Welcome to Film Spotting.

00:01:43
Speaker 3: A sacred cow review two decades well maybe sixty five million years and two decades in the making. Josh, I hope it's not the cow that gets fed to the Velociraptor in Jurassic Park.

00:01:55
Speaker 2: If that happens, we will be in deep trouble with a certain segment of our listenership.

00:02:00
Speaker 3: Let's just say that, Yeah, we have been triggering nineties kids since the very earliest days of the show, not giving Jurassic Park enough love. I think one of us may be in trouble.

00:02:12
Speaker 2: Later in the show, we.

00:02:13
Speaker 3: Will have that sacred cow review of Spielberg's I don't know, thirteenth to eighteenth best film somewhere in there.

00:02:21
Speaker 2: I'd have to check my rank heats, but let's go with that for now.

00:02:24
Speaker 3: Along, Josh, with your recommendations of Megan two point zero and the new Sorry Baby out in limited release, plus Massacre Theater and more. But first, Jurassic World Rebirth. If like us, you maybe lost track of where we are in the Jurassic franchise, the rebirth in the title is a clue. It's the seventh film in the franchise, but the first following the twenty twenty two conclusion of the Chris Pratt, Bryce Dallas Howard led Jurassic World trilogy. Rebirth may also be a nod to the return of David Kepp, the screenwriter of nineteen ninety three series starter Jurassic Park, which we'll get to.

00:02:59
Speaker 2: The new film welcomes new stars to the franchise, namely Scarlett Johansson along with Wicked breakout Jonathan Bailey, and there's a new director as well, Gareth Edwards. Edwards has a decent track record when it comes to franchises. He made twenty fourteen's Godzilla and twenty sixteen's Rogue One, a Star Wars story. Just previous to this movie was an original, the AI Versus Humans War film the creator. So what is Jurassic World Rebirth about? Dinosaurs? Kind of weird? Ones. Here's a clip. Mister work here did tell us everything that we need to know. Look, this island was a laboratory of sorts.

00:03:40
Speaker 1: They conducted experimental work here, well, kind of experiments, cross breeding of species, engineered entertainments.

00:03:47
Speaker 2: They call them genetically altered freaks Andy that were malformed or just too damn hard for anybody to look at. The left them here.

00:03:57
Speaker 3: I just came from seeing Jurassic World Rebirth, so we're going to jump right in, and I think I've got a decent place to start. This could be a short review. According to film Spotting PA Sophie Kempenar, the only question we have to answer is how hot is Jonathan Bailey.

00:04:12
Speaker 2: I'm going to say not wicked hot, but pretty hot.

00:04:15
Speaker 3: I think that's fair, but still nerdy hot. If you're into Jonathan Bailey, you might be into Jurassic World Rebirth. We will build off that or try to go into a bit of a different direction. A Rotten Tomatoes blurb caught my eye from movie mom Nell Minnow's fresh review.

00:04:33
Speaker 2: She gave Rebirth a B.

00:04:35
Speaker 3: Grade, saying it's what we came for, dinosaurs chasing and eating people and just to mix it up, a bit some people chasing dinosaurs, a sprinkle of humor, a touch of warmth, a very brief detour into morality, but mostly the aforementioned chasing. You're a certified Jurassic completist, Josh, I am not. I've only seen four of the seven, and the only one I like is the original, which, as folks will hear in event, I certainly don't love. So you're the right guy to pose this to. What do you come to a Jurassic movie for? And did Rebirth deliver?

00:05:13
Speaker 2: Oo? You don't come in with very high expectations, at least I don't to your point. I recently forced myself to become a completist and watch Jurassic World Dominion, and I added it to the pile of negative reviews of Jurassic movies I have given. Of the six previously released films, Adam, I gave a positive review to Jurassic Park, of course, I did the original, and I gave a slightly positive two and a half out of four stars review to Jurassic Park. Three. The others you'd probably have to pile themselves on top of each other to get to four stars. I am giving a third positive review to a Jurassic Movie with Jurassic World Rebirth. I'm got further than that, Adam, and say, this is the best Jurassic movie since Jurassic Bank the original parentheses, but hardly any of them have been any good? Right, Okay? Are you with me?

00:06:15
Speaker 3: I am not with you, though, And I do want to point out, because I mentioned this last week that I had said that we were both going to make time for Dominion.

00:06:25
Speaker 2: You did as you just noted.

00:06:27
Speaker 3: I did not. I was too busy. Sure, there was also an overwhelming lack of interest, but also when I said I've only seen four out of seven, I did realize that not only did I need to watch Dominion, I hadn't seen The Lost World or Jurassic Part three, and those watches weren't happening. So what was I going to accomplish if I finally watched Dominion Suffering?

00:06:47
Speaker 2: Basically, you would have accomplished suffering suffering.

00:06:49
Speaker 3: Based on my ratings and looking at my notes for a Jurassic World and Fallen Kingdom, I feel comfortable saying that Rebirth is better than those two, though, for what it's worth, I did check this to get too caught up in the Tomato meter here, Josh, but Durassic World is the second highest rated on Rotten Tomatoes seventy two percent. It's even higher than The Lost World, which I think is maybe fifty nine percent. I didn't have a bad time with Rebirth. David Kepp is the screenwriter here, like he was with the original Garrett Edwards. They're both solid craftsman, and for as unnecessarily bloated as the plot maybe felt to me, it helms along pretty well. And you do have Jonathan Bailey as Scarlett Johansson and Maherschel al Lei. They're all solid, of course, as is Manuel Garcia Rolfoko. I like a lot from The Lincoln Lawyer on Netflix, a show i'd call a guilty pleasure, except I still don't believe in guilty pleasures. And Ruper Friend is good too, even if he's just playing the Paul Reiser role from Aliens, and even though he's never playing the villain, I don't certainly think he's ever overplaying the role. There's still never a second where you doubt that he's anything but truly awful.

00:07:58
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:07:59
Speaker 3: I should also note that in many ways, Jurassic World Rebirth is surprisingly playing the role of James Cameron's Aliens. Did you notice, especially at the end, the dinosaurs take on the form of xenomorphs. Oh yeah, xenomaths. They really look like them.

00:08:14
Speaker 2: Our friend, our friend, Wendy fox Webber, she went with me to the screening and she pointed that out right from the big still they had plastered on the screen before it started. She's like, we're going alien here apparently, So it's there right.

00:08:27
Speaker 3: There is also a legitimately awesome action moment and an individual shot and subsequent shots that I'm sure that we'll get to.

00:08:36
Speaker 2: That'll set.

00:08:37
Speaker 3: I'm surprised my issues weren't also issues for you. So maybe I'll throw it back to you and say, for a movie called rebirth, did you feel like this movie was a rebirth? Did you feel like this movie was untethered from the Jurassic Park, or at least the Jurassic umbilical cord.

00:08:56
Speaker 2: I think it was untethered, far more than I expected it ever could be, given what we've seen previously with this franchise. Of course, they're are connections. It's rooted right in that opening, the cold open, where it's you know, I think seventeen years ago, and they're doing experiments. I believe it's related to the original park. So yeah, this is not like a complete standale. This isn't like Prey to go to the Predator series, right, But I think it's closer to the recent Godzilla and Kong films, and as we've mentioned, Gareth Edwards did the earlier Godzilla. I think it's closer to those than it is to the Jurassic movies. Now, those i've been I think mixed to mildly positive on. I'm not saying they're the gold standard of creature features or monster movies, but I think, you know, Edward's Godzilla in particular, have some strong moments and overall they're good films in this genre. I do think Jurassic World Rebirth is closer to that, rather than worrying about being part of the Jurassic legacy, and that's to its credit. I was in on this pretty quickly, Adam, once I realized, you know, I think you said that the plot is a little bloated. This movie is absolutely longer than it needs to be. But honestly, once I realized they had a clear mission for this subjective to get three blood samples from three different massive dinosaurs, all around this one island and then get out. I kind of breathed a sigh of relief and thought, Okay, there's gonna be no like side missions or conspiracies or supporting characters who pop up later, legacy characters we have to deal with for a Jurassic movie. I found this to be remarkably streamlined. I'm also just a sucker. Give me an expedition movie to a dangerous spot and with clear objectives and characters that I relatively, you know, find compelling. The way you describe the stars here totally accurate. They do the job. Johnson especially, I think, knows how to thread the needle of having enough fun but not too much fun. So she's distancing herself and her performance from the material and in a sense making fun of it but also not you know. I think Bree Larson was in one of the Kong movies, might have been Skull Island, which which is interesting, but she's like, given one hundred and thirty percent, It's like, I'm gonna show you I'm really invested in this movie. You don't always need that either. Johansson is right kind of down the middle where she's having just the right level of fun, but you called out, you know, one of the relatively supporting characters, Rubin Delgado played by Manuel Garcia Rolfo, and he's, you know, the head of this this family. His younger daughter Isabella played by Audrina Miranda, his teen daughter Teresa played by Luna Blaze, and then Teresa's dope be lazy boyfriend Xavier played by David Iacono. So here's something that this movie helped me realize, Adam. The common question with these disaster monster creature features is do we care about the characters? Do we need to care about the characters? Does the screenplay care? And I would say my expectations going in are to meet that bar you discribed that the stars bring committed, interesting, compelling, nice to look at. Okay, there is a higher bar that some movies do meet. And you know, we'll discuss this in our Jurassic Park Sacred Kyle review about the characters there. And I always am asking myself, especially with something like Jurassic Park, why why are these characters not registering in the way I really want? The writing is there in Jurassic Park where they're trying to put this parenting theme on top of Doctor Grant so they've paid attention to it. They're trying to make it work right. And here's one thing I realized. I don't know how they do it. I don't know if it's the writing or the performances or a magical combination. But for a character in this movie to work ultimately for me, I have to be invested in something about them beyond their immediate escape from the danger on screen. And I got to tell you, Adam, I got, you know, not like emotionally invested to the point that I worried about them and thought about them while I was going to sleep the night after seeing this movie. But I got emotionally invested in the dynamics of this family beyond their danger. This is a dynamic. When we first meet Xavier and their boat. This happens early on. It's not not a spoiler gets swamped by the Masasaurus. Masasaurus sure, sure, I get the dinos right, you know, it's he has already proven to be disrespectful and lazy, as I said, And just you know, one of these boyfriends, You're like, why is this, Why is this girl with this kid? You want him to get swallowed up. Basically, you figure people are going to die in this movie. Xavier, you're looking like you're the first to go, and I'm okay with that. By the time this movie ended, Adam, I didn't want Xavier to get a scratch on them, right, And that is not so much because of the danger scenes he's placed in or scenarios he's placed in. It's because the dynamic with the father, with Reuben chases, the dynamic with Teresa is revealed. We start to understand why she is invested in him. And those three gave me something to something human to be intrigued by that would have been happening even if the dinosaurs weren't around. So Kibar er lobar, however you want to describe it. It did help me clarify when these characters work as real humans in these types of movies. And I think that's you know, I think that's to Rebirth's credit.

00:14:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to come back to the care question maybe a little bit later, because I do think this will relate to what you're saying, but to your point, and I agree with that family dynamic, this idea of being invested in something beyond just escaping danger. I think that's a good way to frame it. I think it comes back to the idea of showing and not telling. When the movie shows us character through their actions, through behavior, we believe in them as human beings and how they relate to each other, their dynamics, then we get invested in them. It's when the movie tries to create an emotional core by telling us all the reasons why we should care about them as human beings that movies struggle, and this one does.

00:15:18
Speaker 2: It has a perfect example of what you're talking about exactly.

00:15:21
Speaker 5: And that's speaking of the same way to get back to with Ali and Joelners. There's multiple yes, there are multiple examples, but there is one key scene, yes, and I think we're thinking of the same one early in the film where basically the movie it lays out its emotional exposition is what it does in that scene, but trying.

00:15:39
Speaker 2: To fill in their backstories and paralleling them and it's all to your point through dialogue. It doesn't work at all. It doesn't. It's what I think does happen a fair amount in Jurassic Park and happens in a lot of these movies really, So when I see a significant portion of a film like this finding a way to do it better. I have to. I have to, you know, admire the movie for that.

00:15:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, you talk about it being streamlined in the objectives, and I get it. There's also the flip side to that, which is sometimes when the movie lays out too neatly what the objectives are step one, step two, step three as there are here, then you are, as an audience member, very keenly aware of how much time it's taking to accomplish those objectives. And so it's like, is the movie going to get there? How much time are we going to take here between step one and step two? And there is quite a gap between step one and step two. But to that original question along those lines, Josh, what do you want? Well, for me, it doesn't matter if it's a Jurassic Park movie or could be any movie. It's really the same.

00:16:37
Speaker 2: For me.

00:16:38
Speaker 3: I want characters and I want stakes. They're related, right, what's my investment? What's your investment really in this film? And I think that's a problem. It was a problem for me ultimately, if they complete the mission, if I'm rooting for them to complete the mission, it's evil pharmaceutical guy helps his company make, according to him, trillions of dollars and let's say I don't care as much about that. Well, then the best case scenario is a mercenary with a heart of gold doesn't have to take dangerous missions anymore. Okay, cool, I guess that wasn't much for me, Josh.

00:17:15
Speaker 2: It depends you. It depends how much you buy Henry the Bailey character's alternative, of which he suggests early on, Hey, let's take let's take the you know these samples and make this free. You know will like what does he say? Crowdsource it so the pharmaceutical benefits will be availed to buy anyone. Now, Yeah, do I think that's hokey? But it, yes, a little hokey. It's not exactly what I needed to root for, but it does balance out what you're talking a little. It does give you a third choice. Yeah.

00:17:45
Speaker 3: But also it is introduced late enough into the film that for a while it took me a bit to get invested in the film. And I'm glad you mentioned that, because that's another thing to add to my list. I can't believe I forgot it. It's another thing to add to my list of ways this movie I think isn't completely weighed down by the legacy of the original, but certainly is anchored by it. I'm gonna give you a few, right, and why is that one in particular, because that goes back to the line that is in Jurassic Park, right that Hammond says and the lawyer. The lawyer has the funny quip where he says, yeah, we'll have a coupon day or whatever where the families will come. Hammond says, science shouldn't be just for the elite. It shouldn't just be for the rich. It needs to be for everyone. That's an echo of it here in that science should be for all. Clearly a callback to the film, right. So the prologue, as you already mentioned, is very similar to Jurassic Park. There's the objects in mirror are closer than they appear no in the in the shot where we're introduced to the ruper friend character, also we're introduced to him through the rearview mirror. I don't think that's by accident. Clearly, David Kep must be a health food nut because I'm pretty sure he thinks that all of these dinosaur experiments would actually have been successful if the workers could just stop eating junk food stickers, wrapper, snickers, wrapper plays a prominent role, and there's there's a brushing of food off a map that directly echoes Sam Jackson's brushing of junk off Nedri's desk in the original. There's of course a notable use of flares. I wrote all these down. I caught them all, Josh, A notable use of flares, which is also.

00:19:29
Speaker 2: A Gareth Edwards thing like that's a very probably in Godzilla visual motif that I think he uses really effectively.

00:19:36
Speaker 3: So when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, the banner hanging the same banner, maybe not the exact same, but it is for all intensive purposes hanging in a museum, and I think it's even at that point when we see it in the film starting to come down, but.

00:19:50
Speaker 2: It's definitely echoing the motion, right.

00:19:52
Speaker 3: Sure, there's of course a direct mention of Alan Grant. There's a dinosaur eyeshot that felt pretty similar to the t Rex scene. There is I know we'll get into this. There is a behold the dinosaurs in a field scene that certainly felt similar. There's the decision that we've already talked about to introduce the Delgado family into the mix with the two girls and cut between those two storylines that mirrors the storylines in the first one, where you have Grant with the kids and everyone else. And honestly, none of that Easter egg kind of stuff really bugs me. I don't think it overwhelms mine. I don't think it overwhelms the movie or anything. And you know, as I said, some of that Delgado stuff I think contributes to the bloatedness of the plot, even if I genuinely do like their scenes together and like those characters. But I will be honest, Josh, by the time we got to the end, and maybe you know, you can just tell me I'm being too cynical here, but this is how I felt by the time we got.

00:20:49
Speaker 2: To the end. And there's no spoiler here.

00:20:52
Speaker 3: And the penultimate shot is almost the exact It really is the exact same shot as the one in Jurassic Park where characters look out the window or look at the water and see birds gliding gracefully along, and we cut back to their content reverent faces. By that point, it was too much. Homages are one thing, it's another thing to co opt emotional beats and just copy and paste them in, especially when on the whole this movie, I think exudes a fraction of the reverence for the natural world that the original did.

00:21:29
Speaker 6: Well.

00:21:29
Speaker 2: I think this might be a case of, you know, not having seen a couple of those other Jurassic Park movies that I have, because the things you're critiquing I found to be much worse in those movies, and this handles them, to my mind, just a little more delicately, at least in a way that didn't bother me. I would say to that last point in particular, I think this movie makes space for the Spielbergian wonder much more than the other installed and said we reviewed Jurassic works together, and that one the thing I held the incident the most is the cruelty towards the dinosaurs that it gave us just by killing them, you know, indiscriminately, and that was part of the action. This brings us back to the wonder, whether you find it hope, I wanted a lazy you know, I think it's probably going to be a mileage may very moment. By that ending, when it echoed the ending of Jurassic Park, I had been had such a good time that I was willing to forgive that and see it as an echo, not just a lazy echo, but an echo of spirit that the movie had earned for me by that point. So I think it's earned some of those homages. I also think that some of the home homages are doing original work here, or at least clever enough work. The Snickers thing again, because it happens in the cold open and we can talk about in detail. It's not really a spoiler, but I just love how Gareth Edwards uses that visual detail. There's storytelling economy right in that. It's funny, there's the connect that you mentioned. Sure little LEAs strike for the people enjoy that not too much where it's distracting, but also it's this signature of the human folly that's it's reminding us that the whole series has been about human control.

00:23:13
Speaker 3: For as much as you can control, something is always going to go wrong.

00:23:16
Speaker 2: Because you should may mess claws it. You shouldn't be messing with this in the first sex, and so I thought that was actually a clever way to continue that theme. But yeah, to your point about the homages, though, I think you can go beyond Jurassic Park what I found. You know, I would say to me, I could take it or leave it. Some people are going to love it. Some people are going to be annoyed by it. There are way more Spielberg nods here than Jurassic Park. The Mosasaurus sequence where with the sailboat it's an extended Jaws, I mean it could be pulled from Jaws. The way that is that is handled. I found that, like, I found it kind of enjoyable that they decided to say, hey, we're going to lean into the Jaws. The jawsiness of this, yeah, there is this one worked less well for me. One of the where the creatures they have to track down is one of the flying dinosaurs. So it has a nest in the side of a cliff and inside the nest is built in like a abandoned temple from an ancient civilization Indiana. Jones is all over that. It feels like it you're that one. I was like, okay, come on now. And you know the one thing I also did not work for me at all. It's a minor plot detail, but the younger Delgado daughter, a tiny baby dino you know, comes finds her and she adopts it. Et vibes all over that with the animatronic and of that whole thread line. I didn't need either. So it was just interesting to me that they were they weren't just returning to the Jurassic model, they were returning to the Spielberg model in ways that I would say they had a you know, a five hundred bat in efforts or a fifty percent success rate on that.

00:24:48
Speaker 3: For me, yeah, I think that is very clear that Edwards is trying to tap into that model. And maybe before I counter on the wonder point as well, I'll at least acknowledge that the shot or moment I was alluding to earlier that I think really is amazing, And overall I agree with you. I think the action scenes, for the most part, the action scenes are are rendered very well and are are pretty thrilling. There is a shot. I don't think we want to spoil it exactly. I will just say that there is a shot later that makes tremendous use of nighttime and clouds at nighttime and a very large dinosaur, and I suppose a sense of camouflage and the way that dinosaur emerges is a genuine surprise and and a genuine bit of misdirection and an awesomeness a different kind of wonder. But that's it really is it really is great. Now, I will have to take your word for it on how the Wonder is handled in relation to the other sequels, at least you know, I don't remember has been a while now, the other ones that I have seen, and I know we are going to discuss this more when.

00:26:06
Speaker 2: We talk about Jurassic Park.

00:26:07
Speaker 3: That's one of the key elements of that film that make it successful. Rebirth eventually tries to summon awe, but when Edwards finally cuse the Wonder, it's too little, too late, or it was for me. And when I say cue the Wonder, that's how it felt to me. Not entirely ineffective, but a bit obligatory, and so late in the film. I looked at my watch, it was at least at the ninety minute mark. I think there's a reason why Spielberg, you know, besides it worked for the story, why he put that scene so early in the original film. By the time we get it in this film, Josh, we've almost entirely seen the dinosaurs as threats, as grayish gross mutations, and this scene, despite how great the score is, again going back to the original recalling the original film, making great use of that and needing it, really needing it to do that work. It's not enough to undo that fact or to balance out the fact that we've seen them as threats up until now. And I do believe the Jonathan Bailey character, in particular his sense of wonder in the moment. But here again something we'll dive into deeper. When we talk about Jurassic Park, I do think Edwards miscalculates a bit what produces that sense of wonder for the audience or what the equation is. He makes it mostly about scale, the size of the dinosaurs, their size and relation to the humans, the sweep of the valley, and the several dozen dinosaurs dotting the landscape. You know what we get very little of until late in the scene, faces reactions, the audience's experience. We experience wonder through the characters more so than the camera. And by the time we finally get I thought we were going to get it Josh, and he cuts away almost immediately from Bailey and goes to the dinosaurs. Most of the grandeur by the time we get to Bailey, most of the grandeur of that scene had passed for me. And so by the time it is about Bailey and his experience. He's a phenomenal actor. I really do believe that by the time he's shedding a tear, I didn't feel it.

00:28:20
Speaker 2: I would say that sequence was serviceable to me. I would put it on the same level as we talked about the stars. They're doing their job. That sequence for me did its job. This is the Titanosaurus herd. I think we can say, which is the second of their three dinosaurs that they need to get a blood sample from. Here's maybe why I'm a little more generous towards it. I do think it's nicely set up earlier in the film, and maybe this is why it didn't bother me that it came at the point it did. But the movie begins in New York City where basically Scarlett Johans's character is being recruited by Rupert Friends corporate, you know, the pharmaceutical corporate guy, and they're stuck in traffic at one point because and I may get my dinosaur wrong here, I think it's a brachiosaurus, but it is basically wandered into the streets. I did like the setup of this where at this point in time, dinosaurs have mostly moved towards the equator, because they can't survive anywhere else, and people now are just kind of annoyed by them, lost interest. So we're New York City and this giant beast, which honestly I thought the effects are well done. That produced a certain amount of awe, this shot of this giant beast on this street in Manhattan. But what are the people in the movie do. They're just honking at it. They're just pissed. It's making them late, it's disrupting their day. But it's a nice little precursor of the scale and scope you're talking about and reminding us of the grandeur of these creatures. There's also a line and this brings us back to Bailey's Henry the Scientists to who goes along and when Rupert Friend is trying to rec him, he points out, you know, have you ever seen a dinosaur in the wild? And Henry says no, And he says, he says, if you've never done that, you're only like a guy who's been to the zoo. And there's nothing visual about that. But there's character stuff that you're talking about going on there. And so when we got to the Titanosaurus scene in the field, I think it worked a little better for me because I was remembering the earlier moment. Well, that's the payoff, and you can understand why he's responding how he is. You're right about the attention to scale, because that that is the one thing that made Edwards Godzilla so distinct, is that the movie was all about dwarfing the humans and emphasizing the immensity of Godzilla and those creatures. So maybe he leaned a little too far here, But I think I think the movie worked well enough. I think that sequence, I should say, worked well enough for evoking this tradition of basically, overall, Adam, I thought this movie respected its monsters, and you touched on this about the wonder and the grandeur of the terror scenes too. I thought Rebirth allowed these monsters to have both pathos and terror in a way that was kind of tapping into the Spielbergian wonder thing too.

00:31:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that scene in that moment, the crying in particular, didn't work for me because I was still also hung up on what we were discussing partly earlier. And this also goes back to something in the original Jurassic Park. Most of the movies attempts at poignancy poignancy just fell flat to me. Backstories about dead friends on training missions, missed mothers, funerals, dead children like, the more people are having conversations about these things, and actors have to do a lot of heavy lifting with their eyebrows and their eyes, you know, to get us to care about the characters, get us to buy into the stakes of their mission. The less interested I was. It is funny because this is something else that I'm sure we'll want to bring up when we talk about Jurassic Park, how self, where that movie is or isn't about, sort of the question of commerce and its place, right, creating a blockbuster movie and creating this park that's driven by capitalism. This whole you reference this right, This whole mission, and this whole concept of this movie is built around the idea that now nobody cares about dinosaurs anymore. And in fact, the mutations were all a byproduct of the fact that no one wanted to go to places like the original Jurassic Park anymore, because it wasn't enough for just to see the brachiosaur walking around anymore, right, so they had to amp everything up and turn them into freaks to get people to care and here we are all walking into the Summer movie where it's littered with dinosaurs that are a bunch of freaks.

00:33:00
Speaker 2: So it is it though, See, Yeah, I think I suppose one thing I liked about this movie is that it's bookended by that, right, this idea of the genetically experimented on dinosaurs. But the three main targets we encounter, and we also have a t rex sequence too, those are all, you know, original old school dinoses. Yeah, and so that's kind of what I liked about.

00:33:22
Speaker 3: If you go in and and and you're right to that point, if you go in expecting that that's what you're going to get. And let's be clear, there are plenty of dinosaur attacks and dinosaur evasions in this film, but if that's all you think you're going to get, like the first hour of this movie, there's almost no dinosaurs. There's a lot of there's a lot of just setting up of the story and character stuff, or at least plot stuff between the characters.

00:33:47
Speaker 6: Right.

00:33:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, before the hour sounds a little I mean have minutes. I really like the open. The cold open worked well for me, so that carried me through for a while. But yeah, it takes a little while to get to the real action, I do want to before we go, just call out one action set piece because I do think we get oh maybe four possibly five standout sequences here, and there's a detail in one that I love. It is the t Rex. Not going to spoil it entirely, but let's just say the Delgados are making their way across the island, this family and they encounter a t Rex. Great reveal. I'm not going to spoil it of not only what the creature is that this is, you know, it reveals patients that Edward springs to another bit misdirector for the audience, and it also has a little detail. I'll just say there is a rubber raft, yellow rubber raft that's involved, and we get a great shot where a character is hiding underneath it. The t Rex is above and pushes it snout into the raft and you can see the triangles of the teeth protruding into the rubber to the breaking point. Things like that. Like you and I'm maybe there was like some CGI assistance in that imagery, but you think of a visual idea, a simple idea like that, it is all you need. You do not need like a supercomputer creating herds of beasts rampaging across the screen that is not nearly as scary as a simple evocative image which you know makes makes that one of the I would say many stand out action set pieces.

00:35:26
Speaker 3: And Rebirth Jurassic World Rebirth is currently playing in wide release. If you see it and agree or disagree with us, email us feedback at filmspotting dot net.

00:35:38
Speaker 4: Yes it's me, what a shock, etc. My path of personal growth has been paid with disappointment. I think we can agree that my biggest mistake was that I cared too much.

00:35:53
Speaker 2: Actually, the biggest mistake you made was murdering four people and a dog.

00:35:59
Speaker 3: Continuing the trend, and I suppose of confusing movie titles if only to me. Megan two point oh, that's m the number three Gan two point oh the sequel to twenty twenty two's hit Killer Doll Movie and Josh, you, in preparation for this one, caught up with the original Mthriegan you liked it?

00:36:19
Speaker 2: Is it possible?

00:36:19
Speaker 3: Based on your ratings, I can't remember exactly where you landed three and a half I think out of four for this one on your site? Were you just a three for the other one. Do you like this one even more?

00:36:30
Speaker 2: A better sequel? I had so much fun with this one, Adam, one of the most entertaining times at a theater this year. Halfway through, and yeah, I mean, I'm no expert. I came to Megan late. I'm not gonna pretend like I was right there at the beginning. I was certainly curious about the first film, but it went by me. And then when I heard everyone kind of going nuts for it, I just marked it like I'm gonna have to catch up with that. A sequel was the perfect excuse. I did like this better because I feel like Megan two point zero has a firmer sense of what it wants to do. It is a little longer, I believe it in a way is more expansive, but its concerns are more focused. And I found this to be a rather compelling, interesting, provocative satire of the artificial intelligence, you know, ethical debate that we're either having or that we should be having right now. And it's funny some of the responses I've seen, you know, they fault Megan two point oh for its ethics on the notion of AI, and I just feel like this isn't a movie that's that's really trying to make a statement that it wants people to agree with. It is instead making fun of the illogical rationale in this debate, or the poor reasoning, or the hubrist that's involved in it. Is really taking a bigger look at all of these questions we're embroiled in and having a lot of fun with them, while also, as I said, some of the Hubrists and so forth behind it. So it's a smart movie. It's it's really smart. And you know, people, I thought the first film was not so much about AI. It was about to me handing over our parenting responsibilities to technology. That's a very different thing, and it was a smart satire on that level. I enjoyed it for the elements it had. It got a little bit away from that and went for some you know, horror kills and and things that were in a different direction. So I just love the focus that Megan two point zero has, and it partly attained that by shifting genres. This is something that other folks are holding against it as well. It's not a horror film. It is like a sci fi spy game genre flick. It's like, you know, Mission impossible. I described as mission impossible if you took out Tom Cruise and plopped in RoboCop, except RoboCop was a you know, killer female doll, and that worked for me. This sort of idea of let's play in a different sandbox with related ideas, and here's the key, but further expand on this central character, which has always been the crowning achievement always these two movies. Now it's the hallmark of them, the fact that they've been able to come up with a completely fabricated character who feels so real, a distinct personality, someone who is funny, who is sassy, yet somehow has this eerie element of automation to her that keeps you at a certain distance. And it's this thrilling combination of performance and special effects. They're using animatronics here, but they're also using a child actor, Amy Donald in both films for some of the sequences. The vocal performer Megan's voice, which is so key, is by Jenna Davis, and even in the sequences here in two point zero, where Megan the program is stuck in a smaller desk body that looks like Eve from Wally, it's that vocal performance that is so strong that lets us know this is the same quote unquote person with the same attitudes and the one we've kind of come to maybe not love, but enjoy. And so I think that's a real feat too, that they've not only been able to carry that over to Megan two point zero but expand on it in terms of who Megan is as a threat and sort of a figure we root for. So yeah, I don't know that people have you know, been down on Megan two point zero as much as just said, here are sequelitest things that have frustrated me. I went the other direction. I thought, I thought they took a big risk here and it paid off.

00:40:44
Speaker 3: I don't know why you had to look at me like that when you said handing over parenting responsibilities to technology.

00:40:50
Speaker 2: You know, I don't.

00:40:51
Speaker 3: I don't need your judgment or the judgment of a doll with a number in.

00:40:55
Speaker 2: Our first name. Are you looking for a Megan? Are you in the market for a Megan?

00:40:59
Speaker 6: There?

00:40:59
Speaker 2: And the Kemp in our household? I mean, things are busy. You guys are juggling a lot, so surely blame you.

00:41:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got our hands full right now. Certainly bringing up the topic of Hubris is appropriate for this week's show. You've convinced me I need to catch up with the Megan series, and hey, they've got the name already set for the third one. You know there's going to be a third movie. That has to be a trilogy, right yeah?

00:41:26
Speaker 2: And I think you know they must have known it all along, That's why they chose their name at the beginning.

00:41:30
Speaker 3: Megan two point zero is currently playing in wide release. If you see it and agree or disagree with the Josh's take, we.

00:41:36
Speaker 2: Would love to hear from you.

00:41:38
Speaker 3: You can email us feedback at filmspotting dot net.

00:41:41
Speaker 2: Listening is the number one thing you can do to support an independently produced show like ours. There are a couple of other things you can do. You could take a minute to give us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Doesn't matter if you're brand new or have been around for twenty years. Every time we get a new review, it helps us reach new listeners. Another one to support us, and this is really the lifeblood of the show, it is to join the film Spotting family over at film spottingfamily dot com. We want to say thank you to advisory board member there are a couple levels you can choose when you're becoming a Film Spotting family member. The advisory board people, these are the folks with all the poll Scott Bosh from Pocopsen Pennsylvania, I hear that's just outside Philadelphia is on that board, so thanks so much for that. Scott. Scott's a good follow on letterbox as well, if you want to keep up with him there. His username is Sbosch.

00:42:38
Speaker 3: And Scott's always an active participator in those advisory board calls.

00:42:42
Speaker 2: Which we very much appreciate.

00:42:44
Speaker 3: Scott says, I was looking to get into more podcasts and wanted a movie one. Honestly, I probably first gave it a try because of the play on Trainspotting, which I love and thought the name of the show was clever. I probably started listening around two thousand and seven because I remember No Country and there will be Blood being early reviews, I listened to a favorite review or segment. My all time favorite moment is still the I'm Still here review that sticks in my head all these years later.

00:43:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, memorable a review we got wrong?

00:43:10
Speaker 3: Okay, Adam is wrong on the Dune movies. These are exactly the kind of films we should want from blockbuster filmmaking. They introduce fully formed worlds and never slow down to hold the audience's hand. They demand you pay attention, even on multiple viewings. But most importantly, they are a visionary work from a filmmaker and not something created by a committee from a studio. Also, they're basically Star Wars for grown ups, and that ain't too bad either. I do appreciate that Adam has truly earned back the moniker of Art House Adam. Though I don't know, Scott, I think I can appreciate the approach and.

00:43:41
Speaker 2: What you're saying. I agree they are.

00:43:42
Speaker 3: The kind of films we should want from blockbuster filmmaking, but still not really like the storytelling that much. Letterbox, Top four, Star Wars, The Godfather, A Clockwork Orange, and Taxi Driver. Okay, listen, I know this is like the most basic film bro for faves, but I'm in my mid forties and these are the movies I discovered as I was getting into movies and are pretty responsible for me becoming a cinophile. A favorite he revisited recently. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a favorite, but I recently rewatched Thief as part of seeing all of Michael Nann's movies with my son. It really clicked for me in a way it didn't the first time.

00:44:18
Speaker 2: I loved it. Yeah, good movie.

00:44:19
Speaker 3: A random film or filmmaker he loves Josh's pta calls him the greatest filmmaker of his generation. And I can't be convinced otherwise.

00:44:27
Speaker 2: Okay, we won't try.

00:44:28
Speaker 3: We're good with that, a movie he credits with becoming a cinephile. There were a bunch I hunted down at the local video store, but the first in a theater that kind of opened my mind to what movies could be is probably pulp fiction. And finally, a book about movies or movie making from Scott the Film Club. It's about a period of time where a man watched movies with his son after redropped out of high school. That's a new title to me.

00:44:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, new to me. I'm is your impression fiction or or is it like adary nonfiction? It is? Okay, fiction.

00:44:55
Speaker 3: Fiction is my impression, but I'm going to have to look it up and learn more. Thank you so much, Scott for that, and for your support of film Spotting by being a family member. If you would like to become a family member. You can learn more at Filmspotting Family dot com.

00:45:12
Speaker 2: Something pretty bad happened to me? Did it just happen?

00:45:15
Speaker 1: No, it was a little over three years ago.

00:45:20
Speaker 2: Well that's not that much time. I know, this is hard to talk.

00:45:24
Speaker 3: That's Ava Victor with John Carroll Lynch in the Ava Victor written and directed Sorry Baby, which is currently playing in limited release. Victor plays Agnes, a college professor still trying to process a traumatic experience. Naomi Aki and Lucas Hedges also star. The film debut at this year's Sun Dance, where Victor won the screenwriting Prize. I know you saw Josh at the Chicago Critics Film Festival, where it got a lot of good buzz there, and it continues to get a lot of good buzz. I'm really frustrated that I can't see it but where I'm located. It's not going to play my favorite theater until later in July. But since you've seen it and it is opening in theaters in Chicago this weekend, we wanted to make sure to give it a little time. It's Victor's writing and directing debuts, so the key question for us here at film Spotting is should this be a Golden Brick nominee?

00:46:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, for me, it's I think we have maybe four titles in the run at this point, at the midway point of the year, and I think it's it's in the lead right now. This is such a strong debut with that unique authorial vision that we talk about, and yet at the same time it's very unassuming in its sense of assuredness. I don't know. I've been having trouble trying to describe to people whether this is a friendship comedy that kind of sneaks in some intense seriousness, or is this first and foremost something like a and I don't mean this derisively, but like a trauma drama that understands laughter is a part of that real life experience as well. It is this balancing act that is this is the unique voice that we're looking for in a Golden Brick that a filmmaker has. It is the balancing act of those tones, also the balancing act of the movie's construction. It jumps in time in ways that is not ostentatious but crucial for the effect and the reveal of certain plot developments and everything that I've described in terms of the tone of the movie itself can also be found in Victor's lead performance the way they just hit there's a scene here, and I don't think this is a spoiler, so I'll say it, but there's a scene early on when her friend Lyddy tells her that tells Agnes that she's pregnant, and we're watching Victor's face receiving this information, and you see the genuine excitement for her friend, for Agnes's friend, you see disbelief that this is happening, this is the stage of life there, and then they give a little sideways glance that just tells us Agnes knows in that moment their friendship will never be the same. And so for Victor to be able to bring all that to a small scene, it's just an example of what happens throughout in the performance in the movie. And it's one of those that the longer you sit with it, you'll realize how accomplished it is in what it is trying to do. And yeah, you mentioned Hedges in there, so good to see him back on the screen. And John Carol Lynch just like I mean, maybe a six minute scene like just kind of like slips into your chest and scoops out your heart and tucks it in his pocket and walks away. It's like you, before he even did it, you realize you've been devastated by this little mini performance in the movie. So a lot of reasons to see this movie Sorry Baby on its own, but especially as we're considering the Golden Brick nominees for this year. Can't wait.

00:48:58
Speaker 3: Sorry Baby is currently playing in select cities. If you see it, we would love to hear your thoughts feedback at filmspotting dot net. We have put it off a couple of times, but next week, we promise, and it sounds like Sorry Baby maybe in the running. Anyway, It's our top five films of twenty twenty five so far. I know we both have been trying to catch up with anything and everything we can see, but that's not all.

00:49:25
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the.

00:49:26
Speaker 3: Best, second best, I don't know, maybe third best, and that certainly wouldn't be a bad position to be in when you hear some of these titles. In a second of the year nineteen sixty, we're going to talk about Billy Wilders The Apartment. This movie is in the film spotting Pantheon and it was part of the twenty first Film Spotting Marathon back in twenty ten. We of course recently completed Josh our fifty first marathon, and we're talking about this movie because it is celebrating its sixty fifth anniversary, and we've got this ongoing Pantheon project where we're trying to give a full, in depth discussion, both of us, me and you. We're trying to give an in depth discussion to every movie that is in the pantheon, those movies from nineteen sixty. Well, it is competing against Psycho, Breathless, and La del Javita.

00:50:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and The Apartment, all those four films in one year is pretty incredible. I'll confess, Adam, I've already rewatched this. We had, you know, a night where the family was just looking for something to watch together and a lot of times we end up with classics that kind of pleases everyone, and so I was like, hey, I've got The Apartment coming up. Only Debbie had seen it at that point, and so let's give it. Let's give it a world love. When these movies go over so well with younger generations and just loved watching it again, we are going to have a great, great conversation about this one. Yeah.

00:50:51
Speaker 3: Also next week results and your feedback from the current Film Spotting poll asking you to choose your favorite film of twenty twenty five so far. You can vote and leave a comment at film spotting dot net. If you would like to see a schedule of future shows, at least what we currently have planned, you can visit filmspotting dot net.

00:51:08
Speaker 2: Slash episodes from director Robert Altman comes a story. Yeah, of Hollywood. I get a writer right.

00:51:16
Speaker 1: Here, who's going to pitch?

00:51:16
Speaker 4: I think you ought to hear.

00:51:17
Speaker 2: I think it's hot.

00:51:18
Speaker 6: We open outside Sam Quentin.

00:51:20
Speaker 1: A graduate Part two and Missus Robinson had a stroke.

00:51:24
Speaker 2: Adam. I am deep in preparation for cinema interrupt us The Player, which will be this August at Gene Sisco Film Center. And one question I have in the back of my mind is if The Apartment is one of those classic movies whose poster lines the halls of the studio. If you remember in The Player there are so many posters, and you know, Altman and his collaborators chose specifically which ones. There's some reason, right, And now I'm thinking, are we going to spend a full day at Interruptus. I think someone even asked me this on social media, just dissecting the posters in the background, and I'm panicking because you could absolutely do that with this movie. There's so much good movie Hollywood lore to dig into. But of course you know the format for this. We only have three days to make it through the player after watching it on that first day, so we can't get stuck on the posters too long. So many other details we want to dig into again. Those tickets for Cinema Interrupts are now available. Our dates are August eleven through fourteen, So August eleven we watch the player in full, and then the next couple of days we start at the beginning and go through it seen by seeing anyone can jump in with a question or a comment. We're going to offer four day package that's available if you want to be there for the whole thing, or if you can only make one day. There are single day tickets and you could get those at Ciscofilmcenter dot org. Slash interrupt Us this week on our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, It is part two of There for Love or Money pairing. They are going to add to the Materialists debate. I keep seeing as more reviews roll in on letterbox, Adam, I feel like I get one that's a rave and then another one will come by that's just witching it apart. It's really a divisive film, which is interesting for what's, you know, sort of a romantic comedy or dramedy. So it'll be very curious to see where the Next Picture Show folks land on materialists. They of course previously talked about pride and prejudice, so part of their discussion will be comparing it to that Joe Wright film. New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday and you can get them wherever you get your podcasts. It is time now for Massacre theater, where we perform a scene and you get a chance to win a film Spotting prize. Last time we massacred this scene. Hey, you know I'm not because I think we have a kind of friendship where if I world the devil, You'll be the only one I would tell, Well, you were awfully put to run after Tom's help with all right.

00:53:55
Speaker 5: You want it, and the things have gone well for to that I probably wouldn't be saying any of this.

00:54:02
Speaker 2: I grant you everything, but give me this.

00:54:07
Speaker 6: He personifies everything that you've been fighting against, and I'm in love with you.

00:54:16
Speaker 2: How do you like that? I buried the lead Albert Brooks there with Holly Hunter in nineteen eighty seven's Broadcast News, written directed by James L. Brooks. Along with massacring that great scene, we also had a review of Materialists and the Life of Chuck. Why do we choose a scene from Broadcast News.

00:54:36
Speaker 3: Well, here's Aaron in Manhattan, you guys massacred Broadcast News, the James L. Brooks film about a brilliant woman caught in a love triangle with a smart, capable, sincere but cynical Albert Brooks and the pretty boy charmer William Hurt. I haven't seen Materialists, but it sounds like a similar premise executed to much less than perfection. Every character in Broadcast News is so uniquely themselves and evocatively performed, you never doubt who these people are, and you never question why they are who they are. Also, there is not a line in Broadcast News that makes me think put your pen down, as you said about Materialists, If anything, I wanted to keep going forever. In fact, maybe I'll go watch.

00:55:13
Speaker 2: It right now here's Evelyn So from New York City. Einstein, very clever, Adam, that's Albert Brooks's real name. Highly doubt I'll win twice in a row. But I had to write in because I love broadcast news. The link is easy too. Cite it as one of Selene's song's inspirations for materialists, also involving love triangle and romantic dramedy, although there is way more calm in this movie Hurrah and by need to go have my one minute of crying.

00:55:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember what we changed Jane's name too, if we did, and I assume we did, but we had to change Aaron's name, and I went with Einstein because indeed his name in real life is Albert Einstein. I will note that Sam wasn't aware of the Selene song list when he picked this movie. He was just going purely off the love triangle. But it is one of those films that is on the list of inspirations for materialists. Finally, Liz Stickle in Wheaton, Illinois says, both films with career women who are the best at what they do, caught in a love triangle between mister charming and mister good listener. I think that's a good way to frame it.

00:56:22
Speaker 2: Now.

00:56:22
Speaker 3: She has another line here, Josh that I'm actually going to refrain from reading because it references the ending to materialists in broadcast News. And while it isn't explicitly a spoiler per se, it could be a spoiler if you are someone who has seen broadcast news but not materialists. And I will just note for Liz out there anyway, I agree with her, So thank you, Liz.

00:56:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we split on this point when we reviewed broadcast News. I forget what the occasion was, but I loved it as you did until we got to that ending. Yeah. Okay, well we can't. We can't really discussed it anymore. Go find it in the archives. Find it in the archives and will Yeah, we.

00:57:05
Speaker 3: Get to it there though it's a bonus content review, but not to belabor it. I think you're referencing maybe the very very very end of broadcast News. I don't think that's what Liz is referencing.

00:57:16
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, I'm just assuming we'll talk off their we'll talk off their.

00:57:19
Speaker 3: Josh each into the film spotting hat and pick out this week's winner.

00:57:23
Speaker 2: Our winner is Brandon gettles here in Chicago. I hope I got that right, Brandon. Congratulations, Yeah, at least we think you're in Chicago. I'm basing that off a previous entry. Congratulations, Brandon. You can email us at Feedback at film spotting dot net to claim your prize, either a trial membership to the film Spotting Family if you're not already one, or a film Spotting tote bag or film Spotting t shirt. Tear sticks are doping for actors. Do you want to be the Lance Armstrong of theater?

00:57:55
Speaker 1: No, get off the stick.

00:57:58
Speaker 3: We move on now to this week's edition of Massacre Theater, impeccably chosen by producer saying so good.

00:58:06
Speaker 2: How he remembered this? I don't know, but I love it.

00:58:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be fun.

00:58:10
Speaker 2: You have the bigger role here.

00:58:13
Speaker 3: I actually have a part that has been combined, two parts combined into one. There is but one of me here. We have changed the name of my character as we do, to try to make it a little bit harder. I don't know that that's going to work, Josh. People who know this movie are certainly going to know this scene right away.

00:58:35
Speaker 2: And also, you know this is in your contract if I have more lines in Masacre Theater, you you get to take on a second part. So we're just following. We're just following your contract here.

00:58:45
Speaker 3: I really want to see the hand gestures.

00:58:51
Speaker 2: That's what I'm going to say. I might need them to help me.

00:58:54
Speaker 3: Okay, I started off. Actually you started off. I'm going to give you the action. Are you ready, Let's do it and action. Okay, here's the thought. I see an empty stage, I see drums, I see a drummer, I see a microphone, and I see a singer. Ted, come on, what if we gave this stuff up?

00:59:13
Speaker 2: Listen, listen to me, cal Look. When I was a kid, when I was a little boy, I always wanted to be a dinosaur. I wanted to be a Tyrannosaurus Rex more than anything in the world. I made my arms short, and I roamed the backyard and I chased the neighborhood cats and I growled and I roared. Everybody knew me and was afraid of me. And then one day my dad said, Bobby, you're seventeen. It's time to throw childish things aside. And I said, okay, pop, But he didn't really say that. He said, stop being affing dinosaur and get a job. But you know, I thought to myself, I'll go to medical school, I'll practice for a little while, and then I'll come back to it. Dad, How is that a skill? I forgot how to do it. You're a human. You can never be a dinosaur. Hey, I lost it. Hey, what's the point? The point is, don't lose your dinosaur and scene. Now.

01:00:02
Speaker 3: The problem is the writing's so good. You notice I said the writing, not the performance. Though you were fine, Josh, I broke character there and started laughing.

01:00:10
Speaker 2: It's so good and you know, also oddly inspirational. I think I'm just going to keep that in my back pocket if I'm feeling down. Don't lose your dinosaur.

01:00:19
Speaker 3: I think we need to make t shirts or maybe coffee mugs. If you know what film we just massacred, emailed the movies title and your name and location to feedback at filmspotting dot net. Your deadline is Monday, July fourteenth. We will select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and announce it in a couple of weeks.

01:00:38
Speaker 6: Doctor Grant, my dear doctor such, Welcome to Jurassic Bunk.

01:00:49
Speaker 3: Yes, welcome, help yourself to as much melted ice cream as you'd like. Also, if you need to use the restroom good scene, please note that we've set them up alfresco very chic. Just how huge of a hit was Jurassic Park in nineteen ninety three. Seven movies grossed over one hundred million dollars that year, from seven to one in the Line of Fire, in Decent Proposal, Misses, Doubt Fire, Sleepless in Seattle, The Firm, The Fugitive, and in the top spot Steven Spielberg Cgi Game Changer, which was the only one of those smashes to gross over two hundred million. Because it actually grossed over three hundred million, it's not difficult to see why it was such a success. Long before Imax, Dolby Vision, and other enhanced viewing experiences, seeing Jurassic Park at the cinema in ninety three felt like, well, going to Jurassic Park, And that was true even on my relatively dinky little screen at the Capitol two where I worked in Newton, Iowa. The memorably awestruck faces and near collapsing bodies of Sam Neil's doctor Alan Grant and Laura Durn's doctor Ellie Sadler when they seed the Brachiosaur. That was pretty much all of us so dazzled by the special effects that maybe, for the first time watching a movie, we didn't have to work at all to suspend our disbelief. Spielberg, like Richard Attenboroughs John Hammond, had done it. He created real dinosaurs. Josh, when we were teasing this discussion recently, you propose that to give Jurassic Park the fairest possible shake, you were basically going to try to brainwash yourself this time you would watch Jurassic Park pretending that a different all time Spielberg classic didn't exist. I jumped in to suggest that title had to be Raiders of the Lost Arc, the eighties kid action adventure equivalent of this nineties kid fave, while these no Indiana Jones. Doctor Grant even has a similarly defining look Panama style hat red Paisley bandana around his neck, aviator style sunglasses. You said Jaws, and I'll be honest, I didn't make anything more of it beyond the obvious connections of giant things with giant teeth, chomping people and blockbusters, with Jaws of course being the reasons and that word exists. We revisited Jaws for its forty fifth anniversary in twenty twenty, and with insights from that conversation still fresh in my mind, as I watched Jurassic Park, I noticed the connections maybe went a little deeper. Aren't Jurassic Park and Amity Beach both essentially amusement parks places for family entertainment, Places for family entertainment that bring in, or have the potential to bring in lots and lots of dollars that also happen to be wildly unsafe, irresponsibly unsafe, considering that in both cases, the decision makers have more than enough information to make the calls to shut the parks down, but Sheriff Brody succumbs to the pressure to open the beach, and poor Alex Kinner is sacrificed, just as Hammond's obsession to get his park open leads him to almost sacrificing his own grandchildren. Tell me, were you able to view Jurassic Park through a Jaws less lens, and if so, did your strategy pay off?

01:04:01
Speaker 2: Or is it.

01:04:02
Speaker 3: Possible that your selective amnesia clouded you from further appreciating the work of Spielberg? And screenwriters David kath and Michael Crichton, adapting Crichton's novel.

01:04:12
Speaker 2: It sounds like I might have thrown you off by that suggestion. It sounds like I put Jaws in your head, and so now I'm curious to hear how that might have affected your viewing. I was largely successful. It required a lot of work. It was, you know, brainwashing myself wasn't easy because I've always found the parallels to be so clear. But whenever I would start to hear that music, that Jaws score coming in the background, I just I said no, I shut it off, and I focused on what was on the screen and pretended like I was a kid who maybe did grow up in the nineties, had not seen Jaws, maybe knew nothing about it, and walked in to watch Jurassic Park. And I understand. I've always understood the appeal, the allure. For the record, both of us have always liked this movie. We liked it when we first saw it, and have liked it largely since. I think what this allowed me to do was to look for other areas that I have maybe not appreciated enough about this film because I was spending time dismissing it in comparison to Jaws. And one thing that now, this isn't a deal breaker, This doesn't elevate it to the level of Jaws. But you've referenced twice now Richard Attenborough as Hammond and Adam. That was maybe my major takeaway from this viewing is that even separate from the Jaws comparisons, I love what you're bringing out there. You know, in a way, he's maybe a version of the mayor of Amityville's mayor, except we have an extremely complicated figure here, not this straight up villain who we're going to get in later Jurassic films, these corporate you know, CEOs who are clearly, even if they pretend to me nice, just avaricious, caring nothing for anyone. Here we have this grandfatherly, kindly, gentlemanly man who appreciates nature, who loves dinosaurs, who loves his grandkids, but is also a self deluded you know. The term we'd use now is a disruptor, right, A rich guy who thinks they can just skip the line because they've inherited. Usually these guys inherit their money and just wreck havoc for the rest of us. By being dumb and rich. And you know, there's a line that jumped out here in Jurassic Park, Hammond hates inspections. They slow everything down, and I thought, of, I haven't watched this yet, but I was listening to a Slate Culture gabfest discussion of the recent documentary about that Titanic submersible company the entrepreneur who he died with clients when the vessel failed, and they were talking about how the doc brings up all of the safety regulations that were ignored in the favor of speed and profit. Essentially, Hammond is that guy too, and Attenborough allows us to see that guy. Like there were more ham And scenes than I usually noticed, and I think it's because I was looking for things like that to notice by putting Jaws to the side. I think Attenborough is very good in the performance. And you reference the ice cream scene. I think that's a key scene for it. This comes what's a good scene. Everything has fallen apart and he's there eating the ice cream because what does he say, otherwise it will melt and it's just like it's binge eating, it's guilt eating, and there's regret there. But what does he also do in that scene, I forget the exact particulars, but doesn't he reference his future plans that he still has for this enterprise. So he in the face of his grandchildren almost being eaten, he's remorseful, but he's not done.

01:07:57
Speaker 6: You're right, You're absolutely right. Having then ed to do was a mistake. That's obvious. What over dependent on automation. I can see that now now the next time everything's correctable. Creation is an act of sheer will.

01:08:15
Speaker 2: Next time a.

01:08:16
Speaker 6: Little bit flawless.

01:08:17
Speaker 2: And this is the kind of complicated characterization that I don't think the rest of Jurassic Park has that I think is strewn throughout Jaws, that every character has. Here, we get it, and it's something I didn't give the movie credit for, maybe because I was focusing on the characters who didn't have it, and I missed the guy who did, which was Richard Attenborough's Hammond. So yeah, I think I like the movie a little bit more this time around, and that was one of the reasons.

01:08:44
Speaker 3: I can see that I really like the performance. I do agree that character is maybe more complex than I gave them credit for before, or gave the screenplay credit for before. This is the third time. I think only the third time I've seen Jurassic Parks start to finish. Anyway, I probably saw parts of it a hundred times when it came out because I was working at the movie theater when it came out. I am still chasing the high I think of that initial viewing. Based on the last two viewings, I do still find it thoroughly fine. And I definitely didn't have selective amnesia with Jaws when it came to that comparison, and you can compare Hammond to the mayor. Sure, there is another comparison I found more interesting. I'll say this those sort of big picture about the movie and touch on that comparison, which I want to dig into more. The effects puppetry, animatronic and the early CGI remain movie magic. Yeah hold up so well, and as a cautionary tale disguised as an amusement park thrill ride, its intensity is undeniable.

01:09:50
Speaker 2: Though.

01:09:50
Speaker 3: I'm drawn to the parallels between Hammond and Spielberg as obsessed visionaries bent on creative control, and that includes not just Spielberg himself, but the Spielberg stand ins that are strewn throughout his work. That was among my big surprises watching the film this time, and when we talk about these sacred cows, usually when it's been ten plus years, we see those elements just like you were touching on Attenborough, watching through a different lens, or just watching it for the first time in a while. There are always things you didn't pick up on before or you just found more fascinating. And I had three things we'll get into I won't go into detail on all of them now, but there were three elements that really stood out to me, and they all Josh Mark Jurassic Park as specifically Spielbergian, beyond just the craft of it, which does make the film more interesting to me, even if I'm still critical of the film. And one of those things is the it, which we've already touched on, and look, I understand the challenges or the problems, the flaws of making the connection between Jaws and Jurassic Park or leaning too heavily into it. One of those is whereas there is some levity in Jaws, some levity in Jaws, there are moments of straight up comedy in Jurassic Park. It is a much lighter movie overall, and that could partly explain why some of the things I'll touch on don't pack the same punch, but it still is in many ways Jaws on Land. Also, I understand the exercise that you were embarking on right, trying to kind of free yourself from seeing it through that lens. But I also think this can be a little bit misleading when people hear me say what I was doing, or even what you were doing. I didn't have Jaws in mind at all when I watched or thought about Drastic Park the last time I saw it in the theater when it was re released in twenty twelve, and I thought it was just okay then too. Nor was I actively comparing it this time.

01:12:03
Speaker 2: Either.

01:12:04
Speaker 3: This is the stuff you're thinking about when you're processing your reaction and trying to understand why you're reacting the way you are. Jaws is just a reference point for helping me figure out why I'm not or what I'm not responding strongly, too, It's not the reason I'm not responding strongly, And I.

01:12:22
Speaker 2: Think there's a key difference there.

01:12:23
Speaker 3: You said something interesting too, when you mentioned kind of putting yourself in the shoes of being a kid watching Jurassic Park, and you and I both surely saw. Even though we weren't old enough to see Jaws in the theater, we both surely saw Jaws when we were kids for the first time. Though I don't think of Jaws at all as a kid's movie, whereas Jurassic Park definitely does feel like a kid's movie right fittingly for Spielberg, he introduces kids into it. They're almost the main characters along with doctor Grant. We experienced them movie in some cases through their eyes, their sense of wonder, their sense of fear, certainly so wanting more from it or maybe wanting it to be more serious like I do anyway, isn't fair though. Even that's nuanced, Josh, because you know Jaws. I don't think our rating existed then, or it definitely didn't. But Jaws was rated PG, and it's still PG now. If it came out now, obviously it would be at minimum PG thirteen. But I still think the Jurassic Park has to say it's a kid's movie is still difficult because it has more violence in it and more intense scares in it, I think than Jaws does. I don't even think it's close. I think that t Rex sequence alone is far scarier than anything in Jaws. And you may remember this. When I took my kids back in twenty twelve, Quinn was only about five and a half years old. Now people listening may say, gosh, how could you have done that? Well, I hadn't seen Jurassic Park at that point in many years, right since it came out, so I didn't remember how intense it was. And I was taking his slightly older siblings, and five and a half that's the age when you get really into dinosaurs. I was really into dinosaurs at five and a half. He was super into dinosaurs. I thought, okay, i'll bring him along. At the t Rex sequence, he flipped out so much I had to call his mother and have her pick him up at the movie theater before I could go back in and finish the movie. So I'm just saying five and a half may sound obviously like it's too young to see Jurassic Park, but whatever the ideal age is, I'm going to say it's a lot closer to thirteen than it is five. Okay, so kids movie, Okay, sure, But in terms of that comparison, right, if we're thinking about it in its relationship to Jaws, because of those very clear connections to it. The satire element is there, but the commentary about putting economic interests ahead of public say, nowhere near as potent. I'm not as attached, nor do I care about, nor simply want to spend time with the characters anyone in this movie asterisk, I'll come back to one of them the way I want to hang out right with Brody and quint and Hooper. The screenplay has it does obviously have a few very memorable lines and scenes Life Finds Away, Clever Girl, Malcolm's big lunch monologue. None of them really strike with the same force as some of the key scenes and Jaws. And then emotion too, and I think this movie is going for some real emotional moments. So I think this is totally fair, and this will lead into one of my other big surprises. Despite a lot of very pointed attempts to play up grants transformation and his relationship with the kids, nothing here has the same impact, at least for me, as you know Brody and his son at the dinner table, or Missus Kintner slapping Brody. So this isn't the only level on which I'm going to be critical of this movie. Is just comparing it to Jaws. But since this is how we initially framed the conversation, I do think it's fair, and the connections between the two films are obviously undeniably there.

01:16:10
Speaker 2: Yeah. And to be absolutely clear, and this is where I'll close off on the Jaws things, just for myself is by no means did I come to this viewing and say that Jurassic Park is as good as Jows and that I had just been nostalgic in my estimation. I think every point you made is true. I've written about at length about the ways it falls short of Jaws, and the word I keep coming back to in that critique is mechanical. Jurassic Park feels mechanical to me and Jaws does not. My exercise here was again to give myself blinders so that I could find newer things to appreciate, and to that end it was successful. Yeah, And it was successful in new ways, new things I found, as I said, largely at in Borough, but then just reappreciating and being able to enjoy the things I've always liked about Jurassic Park without a Yeah. But and I do want to spend some time on the brilliant sequences in Jurassic Park, which I do think the filmmaking is on par with what you get in Jaws. And this time those blinders allowed me to only think about them on their own terms, to notice maybe particular choices and decisions and techniques, and notice more of them. That's what happened to me, Adam is it's not just the t Rex sequence, which I do want to spend a little time breaking down. It's not just that where I noticed Spielberg's prowess, but telling myself to just look for it in this movie. I want to bring up one shot, and it's a seemingly inconsequential shot. It happens early on. It's where Grant, Ellie and Malcolm are in one of the tour cars going along the tracks and they're looking out the window, and Spielberg chooses a profile shot, so we see all three of them from the side in the same frame, and we can see a little bit of each of their faces. And this is where that, you know, I think it's one of the clever bits of dialogue where Malcolm begins with God creates dinosaurs and then proceeds right right. Well, we get all their faces in profile as I said, it starts in focus on Malcolm, and then there's a rack focus to Ellie when she delivers the punchline women inherit the world. We can see Grant because of the framing choice. We can see Grant, who hasn't said a word throughout all of this, smiling in the background. There's character work there because this is a dynamic among the three of them that's been back and forth. So the shot enables all of that to happen without a single edit. And then we get the camera pushing in on Ellie and swinging around so it can fully face her as she observes something out the window. This is just again it's inconsequential, but it could have been filmed in so many other ways where you didn't get the suspense, you didn't get the characterization, you didn't get the dynamic among the characters. This is what Spielberg does, and this is another thing. By being able to just focus on the text in front of me, at least I could say, you know what, never noticed that before? But how many filmmakers would shoot it that way and how many would be as effective in what they want to convey. I think there's a lot of that in Jurassic Park, which I was happy to discover this umpteenth time watching it.

01:19:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and for all of the revolutionary techniques that he is employing in terms of the effects, how about the classical approach with subtle things like just using props. You mentioned the scene between Hammond and Ellie when they are talking over ice cream, and I think this is I mean, it's obviously a key scene. I think it's a really important scene for reasons that I'll get into later. But how does that scene conclude? That entire scene has been them having this dialogue where he is eating that ice cream, and they've been in conflict with each other, and by the end she challenges him enough that he does seem to come around to her point of view, or at least seems to acquiesce to her point of view and understand they come to a meeting of the minds by the end of that conversation. And so how does it end? It ends with her taking a bite of the ice cream. The entire conversation, she hasn't touched the ice cream.

01:20:27
Speaker 2: Josh.

01:20:27
Speaker 3: She takes a bite of the ice cream at the end, she comments on how good it is. He says a line about how he's spared no expense in the scene ends, like those little touches are there for a reason. They add those little character touches, but they're very subtly, but it's there. They're bonding over the ice cream because they have come to an understanding by the end of that scene.

01:20:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this to your point, like, there are many moments like that which don't rely on CGI or animatronics or anything like that and are incredibly effective.

01:20:58
Speaker 3: Now, let's talk about another performance or another element of this film that absolutely elevates this movie. Even though unfortunately I'm also going to bring it around to a criticism of this movie. I'm sorry. Jeff Goldbloom is in Malcolm. I forgot how much damn fun he is having. He is going for it in one of his earliest scenes. It may have even been his first scene. I can't remember if it's when they get to the island or they're still on the helicopter.

01:21:27
Speaker 2: He punctuates a moment.

01:21:29
Speaker 3: He's delivered some line, and he punctuates the moment by almost doing a dinosaur impression.

01:21:37
Speaker 2: He kind of snarls, so you too up dinosaurs, Well.

01:21:45
Speaker 3: Try it, he snarls, deliciously, and he's smiling the entire time. I think his character, Well, actually, I don't see how you would argue with this, because you can just look at the screenplay and it's in terms of the smartest dialogue that lays out all the big questions of the screenplay as a cautionary tale, all the man versus nature Hubris Man playing god conflicts. It's really only there because his character lays it out every time he opens his mouth.

01:22:18
Speaker 2: Yes, every time he opens.

01:22:20
Speaker 3: His mouth, and I'm gonna get to the other thing that's usually coming out. If it's not this, he is saying something very intellectually interesting and you want to hear more. He has the smartest dialogue in the film. And when he's delivering it, like the snarl, he's making fun choices like the time when he pounds on the table twice to again punctuate little moments and what is he doing when he's not being super intelligent being the smartest guy in the room. Every other moment is him taking every opportunity to hit on.

01:22:55
Speaker 2: Laura Darn's character. Of course, adore it right, like honest.

01:23:00
Speaker 3: Sign me up for the version of Jurassic Park Josh where Ian Malcolm seduces Ellie into being the next future ex Missus Malcolm. I'd be on board with that version of this film and all of this, all of this is why, though it's absolutely unforgivable that they somehow made a choice to sideline Ian Malcolm for almost the entire second half of the movie. The only choice is Jeff Goldbloom gets to make for the second half of this film are variations on how am I going to sit up and groan slightly differently?

01:23:31
Speaker 2: Oh, what do you know?

01:23:32
Speaker 3: It's Jeff Goldbloom still just laying there on a table, sitting up occasionally. It's crazy, it's criminal.

01:23:39
Speaker 2: So, first of all, I have to say his performance prompted me to Google images search for the Burt Reynolds Playgirl spread, because I swear on this watch Goldbloom is purposefully positioning himself or someone is someone directed him to in the exact pose of that renels Y're right, You're right. It's amazing. And it's when he has the shirt open, it's like, that's that's just brilliant and in line with all the other choices he's making as a performer. Right, interesting what you say about unforgivable to lose him because do I want more of that performance? Of course I do. I generally agree with you, but Megan two point zero strangely suggested something to me. Jermaine Clement shows up early in that film as very amusing, as like a tech you know, ceo rich guy, and it's it's a completely joke performance that works for me. I loved it, And then after two scenes, I think he's gone. He's gone from the rest of the movie, and for a while I was like, Oh, he's not gonna be back. But then after the film it was like, would I really have wanted more of Jermaine Clement in the movie? Like what does the movie really need that? And so Goldblum is far funnier here in Jurassica Park, but it's a similar dynamic where I do wonder if they'd given us too much of that, if he'd keep delivering the same thing, it would have worn thin. I also know it does wear thin because he is in I think like five at least of the next Jurassic movies, and yeah, he doesn't need to be So maybe this is all he needs to be in Jurassic Park. I don't know.

01:25:15
Speaker 3: Maybe one other element I want to touch on and it goes back to the practical effects that are on display here my favorite dinosaur. Did you go through a dinosaur phase, Josh, I imagine almost every kid does, or a good majority of us.

01:25:33
Speaker 2: I think it's weird because I was obsessed with animal nature documentaries and watching them on TV. But I don't remember dinosaurs being you know, one thing about Jurassic Park is I feel that's when it became more popular for kids to study, and both things kind of happened side by side, So I feel like I was almost you know, it wasn't as big obviously, if you were into it, it was out there and maybe you just had a certain for it a little bit more so, I was like a nature animal kid, But I don't remember having a dinosaur phase, which, yeah, strikes me as a little strange.

01:26:06
Speaker 3: Now, okay, yeah, I mean those were the books that I was drawn to when back in the day you had nothing to do except go to the library right in the summer, you'd write your bike down to the library and you get books, and I got dinosaur books, and Triceratops was always my favorite dinosaur, which is maybe why I love the scene so much, and that's a Stan Winston puppet. And to be able to have brilliant this great cgi used, but also then have something practical like that a puppet where you can have Laura Dern actually a lay on the thing and have it have it breathe and have it feel.

01:26:37
Speaker 2: That he feels the breath in yeah, when Grant does and rises with the belly. Those are like those are like the Wonder touches, right, which you know. I want to talk a little bit more about Wonder at one point, and I do think Jurassic Park probably has more of it than I gave it credit for previously. But yeah, okay, finish what you were saying.

01:26:56
Speaker 3: Well, I want to pivot actually to those Spielbergian aspects. So do you want to stay on Wonder Before we get into.

01:27:04
Speaker 2: That, I want to quickly note, and this is for you know, film spotting family members. It made me think of one reason I was so bad at trivia spotting with a dinosaur speed. Maybe it's because I didn't have those books that you were reading. I did enjoy after that debacle of my answer, which I don't even remember what it was, about how fast a t rex can run, I did enjoy two references to Dino speed in this movie. I'd forgotten we clocked the t Rex at thirty two miles per hour. I remembered that that was the question you remember, Yes, yes, that was it. It was the Botch question. I didn't remember. There was the other reference at some point about raptors going fifty to sixty miles, right, So I was closer, you know, just double that, I think, No, I was. I was close. Quadrup that Josh Quadrup, didn't I say two hundred than two hundred and twelve. Yeah, yeah, I was a little off. I mean, I'm pretty I should have spent more time with those Dino books. No, as a kid. As a kid, the Spielberg thing that always got me. It's in et. It's gotten everyone is the wonder thing, right, And it comes in moments big and small. It's in that moment with the Triceratops we just discussed. It is in the way we experience the reveal of the dinosaurs for the first time in that field through Grant. And it's not just in the CGI, it's more in Grant's face in the performance, and and you know that they're looking at nothing. So that's what makes it even more incredible. It's little touches, like the expression yes, but the way he fumbles with his glasses. This is a guy who we've known to not be really a you know, a fussbudget professor type, Like he's very precise, he's very serious. So to see him suddenly like kind of be flummixed tells you how how in awe he is. And then the us to have you know, Ellie looking the other way and him have to gently turn her head so you can see what I'm seeing. Those those are choices again to your earlier point, no effects are needed there, but it's incredibly effective. And then even here's one where there are a lot of effects, but the same sequence. I think it concludes with this beautifully composed long shot of them on the bluff looking at this you know, Safari type display of dinosaurs down by a lake in the background. It's just beautiful, and that's where we feel like we're sitting next to them taking all of this in. So, yeah, I think wonder is something that is a through line in Spielberg's work. It's interesting, and this shows goes to the point of my underrating of Jurassic Park. Is a couple of years ago for the Thinkershian Movie Club, we had a meeting about Transcendent Spielberg, and so I made a video examining the motif of people just looking up, you know, close encounters et you.

01:29:56
Speaker 3: Can picture them all, as says, right, Ye, the opposite of the Kubrick shot in a way.

01:30:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty touch it exactly, and I omit a Jurassic Park. I just I didn't include one from there, and I could have and should have, as this recent rewatch shows, because we get a few beautiful examples of that.

01:30:13
Speaker 3: So maybe a different kind of wonder here, right, this is more wondrous in terms of the technical proficiency and the craft. You touched on it already. But I'm going to ask a question, though it is maybe a bit of a sacrilegious question, about what is an incredible sequence. Don't get me wrong, the t Rex sequence is incredible filmmaking, even if I think Lex's light getting stuck on is really clunky. I'm gonna say that first. The sequence itself is great. But my sacriligious question is this, Josh, everyone points to how incredible it is the thinking behind the touch Spielberg's decision to show that the t Rex is approaching with the ripple of the water in the cup. I went back and watched this three times just to make sure I wasn't crazy and that maybe I wasn't being too nitpicky. If you or others think I'm still being nitpicky, that's fine, okay. My question is why do we have to hear the thump of the t rex coming so loudly in the sound mix when the whole point of the shot and the design is that the water ripples in the cup are indicating that something big is coming. It's so clearly there. It does get louder, but it's so clearly there. Why aren't we just why isn't the boy? Why isn't the kid in this case? Why isn't he and us through him his point of view seeing the ripple and then we start to hear I can't believe I'm questioning Spielberg as a filmmaker. I was surprised, is all I'm saying, because in my memory I thought it was all about the visual of the real want, and it wasn't we hear the sound too?

01:32:04
Speaker 2: It's what we remember, It's what people talk about. I mean, I have an answer, I don't know if it'll satisfy you. It's exactly something I noticed on this rewatch, and it is what I do think makes Spielberg as a suspense filmmaker distinct, and especially in light of the other Jurassic movies that would come after this one, it is patience. He has patience as a suspense filmmaker that few others have. And so if you break down this t Rex approach, because I think it's all about until the attack, once it attacks, I still find it thrilling. Sure you can question why does this happen? Would they really do this? There's that sort of stuff, But it's all the approach pre attack where Spielberg's genius is on display, and it's because the patiency has to milk every moment. To me, the audio is part of that. I would suggest the thud we hear is chosen because movies are a visual medium, and so if you want to get every outside of this sequence, you start with only sound. And so there are think of all the steps Spielberg takes before we get the money shot, the full reveal of the t Rex. First is the thud on the soundtrack, and you know, wouldn't that give them all the alert to put them on high alert right away. I don't know if you need an excuse. There was a thunderstorm. Maybe it could be mistaken for thunder. Okay, we know it's not the first thing you get thud on the soundtrack. Then is the shot of the water shaking.

01:33:41
Speaker 3: So there's thinking about them in unison seeing the ripple. We hear the sound, Josh, Now maybe we do hear a sound before.

01:33:47
Speaker 2: We hear exactly the thud. We hear a thud before we see the glass. What do we get after the glass? We get the rear view mirror shaking, And this is just building. It's more we're we're like, at this point, by the point of the glass, we want to see this dinosaur. I get it. We get the mirror. Then what do we get. We get a shot through the night goggles that the goat is gone. I mean, this is excruciating at this point. Then we get the goat's leg falling on the roof of a kinder. Then we get a shot of the claw on the electric fence. Then it comes then the money shot of the goat going down the dino's throat. So if you count the first element as that thud, it's one, two, three, four, five, six, suspenseful elements before the full monster is shown. To me, that is ingenius. It sets field apart from other action filmmakers who would cut that. If they cut that in half, they're still doing something special, into my mind, compared to most like monster creature features we might get.

01:34:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't disagree with any part of that breakdown. I think I'm just suggesting. But if you just moved number two in that order to number one, yeah, I just think you could still show that patience.

01:35:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be patient. But it goes back to the idea of, like again, movies being visual, so you start with sound. Starting with sound is always going to be a little more mysterious to me in a movie. There's something cloaked if you're just hearing it. So I have to think maybe that's why that was chosen. But it only extends from there to the action, you know, the action blowout from that point when yes, of course it gets bigger and faster and louder.

01:35:30
Speaker 3: Well, maybe a little bit disappointing too is the fact that he returns. He returns to the trick with doctor Malcolm later in the mud Puddle.

01:35:39
Speaker 2: It's also the jello being held up at one point two. I knew there was I knew there were three. I kind of like that. I kind of like that, it becomes a motif.

01:35:46
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, okay, yeah, motif or just kind of overdoing it a little bit. I definitely like the ripple in the water effect. So the second thing in terms of what makes the steelburging that I definitely would not have ever glommed onto when I saw this movie originally is that father figure element that now we so closely associate with Spielberg. Now, I'll say this part first. This for me is another weakness of the film in that this part that I'm not totally convinced that Hammond exudes enough terror concerning the fact that his grandchildren are out there. He's lost contact with them and they're almost certain to get devoured by a t rex. I know in that conversation he says to Ellie, who better to get the children through Jurassic Park than a dinosaur expert. I know he's in a state of denial. I agree with you. You read on that scene. It's guilt, it's there. But he is still shockingly calm throughout this entire sequence, considering what he has just put his grandchildren through. The entire emotional arc of the movie is really put on Grant. It's Sam Neil and how he evolves. Evolution is the word he he himself puts on what he sees he and Ellie doing, but particularly him from this guy who beginning or in the beginning of the film can't stand even the mention of the word kids. To then warm compassionate father figure who is constantly hugging and protecting these children as if they were his own. It's about him coming to terms with being this father figure. And what does he not ever do? What does he not do that? The lawyer who's the only parent figure, right, the only adult in the car with them, what does he do?

01:37:39
Speaker 2: He abandons them? Right? What is her phrase?

01:37:43
Speaker 3: Think about everything we know about Spielberg from his films and also from the Fablemans, what does Lex repeat multiple times, two different times, and she says it multiple times? He left us, He left us? And what does Grant say? He did? But that's not what I'm going to do. He steps up to the plate and acts as a father figure and doesn't abandon them, And that then leads to that third part, and that part that is the most interesting to me maybe is the Spielberg choice.

01:38:15
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you a question about that. Are you are you saying this is something you newly admired or you found it to be thin? Because to me this has always been no. I find it if they find it mechanical, plot lines, it's.

01:38:27
Speaker 3: It's it's a little bit of both. I find that the emotional weight of it isn't really there. I find it mostly to feel false. I find it interesting to talk about in terms of Spielberg as an overture. Sure there's that, but I do ultimately find it a little bit weak. I find this one stronger or more compelling. This part makes me want to go back to Jurassic Park or talk about it more. The Spielberg choice, this notion of art or whatever, you're obsessed with your work versus family. And I alluded to this right when talking about Hammond and Spielberg in terms of the parallel or Spielberg's stand ins. Hammond and I noticed this, Josh, It's something I just I thought about. When he starts to take them on the first tour, right, and he's showing off everything. He's the showman, He's like a director on a set putting on a show. Everyone has to get in their places. He's responsible for all the departments. They all have to follow his vision. He wants to be responsible for every decision, every act of creation. And what does he want. He wants perfection, he wants ultimate control. And the problem is, of course, he lives in a world. He lives in a human world where that type of control, that type of perfection is not allowed. And that takes us to that or it's not possible. And that scene again, that ice cream scene. He is all about thinking, well, all I have to do is do better the next time, I can right control it better. And what does she say, You never had control. That's the illusion. It was all an illusion. Well, what else is an illusion?

01:40:09
Speaker 2: Josh?

01:40:09
Speaker 3: Filmmaking film is an illusion, it's fantasy, it's not real. And when she says to him that the only thing that matters now are the people we love. It's not the illusion, it's not the art, it's not the flickering light on the screen. It's the people we love. That's all that really matters. And I think you could maybe even again just humor me here. Okay, I'm not even saying necessarily that Spielberg's thinking about this stuff, but it's fun to think about. Take the analogy a little bit further. Even by nineteen ninety three, maybe there was part of Spielberg that still saw himself as kind of the punk kid, upending the Hollywood order, making obsolete all the legendary directors that he revered. Go back to what Ian Malcolm says to Hammond when he is criticizing him for the decisions that he's made and what he's trying to do. As you stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could, and before you knew what you had, you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunch box. And now you're selling it. You're gonna sell it, and then that line, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could they didn't stop to think if they should. He's responsible for the blockbuster movie. He and his friends like George Lucas, all of that merchandise Star Wars. It's about the figurines, whether they intended to do or not, and all the merchandise, it's all over the logos. Everything's Jurassic Park, right, all the merch that Hammond has everywhere, as we see the camera pans across all the merch that's now not going to be sold before it gets to him sitting at that table so forlornly eating that ice cream. And here's at least a case where the parallel is very clear. Again, whether it was in his mind or not, there is a line I came across Josh when I was looking something up where they had a dinosaur supervisor named philt It working on the film, who is a longtime Hollywood guy, like a legendary guy, and yeah, yeah, yeah, and none of his none of his stuff, or at least none of these models his his go motion models were used in the film, and and he saw some of the early work that was being done, the CGI stuff. Spielberg showed it to him, and guess what he said, I think I'm extinct. And Spielberg said, that's a great line. I'm going to put that in the movie. And of course he put that in the movie, doctor Grant saying I think I'm extinct.

01:42:32
Speaker 2: So you know, there's that part of it.

01:42:34
Speaker 3: And even what you were saying about like hating inspections, hating the lawyers. Well, what filmmaker wants the suits to come around from the studio right looking at what they're doing and and and questioning the choices they're making and all all of that seems still like something that I could very much see as part of that his his psyche as he's making this film and seeing the similarities between him and a Ham and like figure. And I do think Josh, to go back to your question about whether or not some of this works, to go back to Grant when he makes his choice and he what Spielberg has him.

01:43:10
Speaker 2: Do right is drop the claw.

01:43:13
Speaker 3: He drops the claw, which is which is his his decision ultimately to show that he has accepted domesticity and he has decided to put aside his dreams of only being on digs right and being the best scientist in the world or whatever it is, and he's now going to embrace being husband and father. I didn't buy it in this film, did you?

01:43:34
Speaker 2: No? No, no no. And that's you know, that's one critique I've long had that I think does still stand. Yeah, it's interesting what you're saying about Spielberg. And you know, when I've when I've written about Jurassic Park. Before I talk about how these cars are on predetermined tracks, they're in the park. There's no drivers, right, That speaks to your point about control and how the movie does have a driver. It's Spielberg, and yet at the same time, the predetermined path, to me speaks to why Jurassic Park is a little bit lesser of a film in his filmography, because it does feel just that predetermined in the themes, in some of the choices, in some of the characterizations, And that brings me back to the you know, the feeling of it being a little more mechanical than I would like from a Spielberg movie. I still do feel that way about it, even if I come to if I've come to appreciate it a little bit more. Also interesting what you're saying about the merchandizing, because that jumped out at me too, and I was thinking, was this the first Spielberg movie that was merchandizable while it was being made? Right, So in advanced they knew, you know, exactly because Et definitely became merchandised with the lunchboxes and all that sort of stuff, But that was after the fact. Even Raiders, which at this point would have been what thirteen years old and three sequels. Yes, Indiana Jones got merchandized, but probably that didn't happen til Temple maybe or shortly after Raiders came out. They weren't thinking about it, as you said, while they were making it. And here it is clear that they're selling Jurassic Park while they're selling Jurassic Park. And that's why I think level of self awareness at play that I don't think his other films had at up until this point.

01:45:22
Speaker 3: Self awareness, or you could say perhaps hypocrisy too. That's perhaps why the satire that's what is any satire isn't potent at all, because they're they're aware, they are self aware that they're selling. And that's why even like I don't think the opening scene, the opening sequence is that good, frankly. And one of the reasons I don't think it's that good is because it feels so sterile and artificial. It feels like it's done on a set. It doesn't have any of that kind of classic Spielberg authenticity to it, and everybody in it is wearing the exact same uniform with the exact same helmet, and it feels like they took figurines like.

01:46:05
Speaker 2: Out of the plastic.

01:46:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the vessels out of the plastic and put them on a set and the models and brought them to life. That's how that scene feels to me. It feels so yeah, it feels so fake.

01:46:18
Speaker 2: It's tricky. I agree. It's not as strong as it should be to open up with the movie, though it does make two good decisions. We don't see much of the monster right, and also the touch, the touch of having the one guy who gets it being dragged up and down. I mean, I don't know if I agree with you that Jurassic Park is scarier than Jaws, but that is scary to have this guy, like, why is he being dragged up and down? Why does that need to happen. It's just one of those like you inject like inexplicable elements into a horror scene like that, and they become infinitely scarier because your mind is just like, I don't know what's going on here now, I want no part of it. I did like that touch, but yeah, could have been a stronger opening for a Spielberg monster movie for sure.

01:47:02
Speaker 3: I mean, we can save it for another time. But Josh, that t Rex sequence is like eight to ten minutes long, and once that t Rex starts tearing apart the truck with the kids inside. Yeah, what competes with that in Jaws for prolonged terror?

01:47:16
Speaker 2: Prolonged is a good question. But and you know what, it's not fair because this goes back to when I saw Jows to your earlier point. It's like the bone chills from Jaws, seen it as a kid, are so deeply embedded at this point. Sure, it's just there's not going to be anything that's Jaws, Like that's gonna hit me that way. Okay, but I agree, it's like it is a brilliantly sustained sequence. The patience that he takes to set it up pays off with the delivery.

01:47:44
Speaker 3: I think it doesn't matter because the scariest thing in Jurassic Park is the lawyer wearing a suit with shorts.

01:47:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, bad look. Can agree on that? Bad bad luck? He deserves to get eaten just because of that? For that? Can we agree? Why not?

01:48:01
Speaker 3: Jurassic Park is currently available on Peacock and vod. We know you've seen it, so if you agree or disagree, and I feel like at least I'm going to get some emails.

01:48:13
Speaker 2: I love it.

01:48:14
Speaker 3: I want to hear why you love Jurassic Park. Oh you're gonna hear these you telling us hear it feedback at film spotting dot net. Josh, that's our show.

01:48:24
Speaker 2: You can find Adam if you want to share your Jurassic Park thoughts on Instagram, Facebook, and letterboxed as film Spotting, I'm at all those places as well Blue Sky two. As Larsen on film. We are independently produced and listeners supported. You can support the show by joining the film Spotting Family at film spottingfamily dot com. You'll be able to listen early and ad free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and access to the entire show archive. For show t shirts and other merch go to film spotting dot net slash shop.

01:48:57
Speaker 3: We actually have a July fourth sale going on right now at the film Spotting Shop. Hats, t shirts, stickers, magnets, you name it, it's all.

01:49:08
Speaker 2: There film spotting dot Net slash shop.

01:49:12
Speaker 3: In that film Spotting archive lots of Spielberg sacred cows, including Jaws episode seven eighty two, Close Encounters and Lincoln with Michael Phillips episode four twenty two Raiders of the Lost Arc an infamous episode in the show's history. I mean, now Jurassic Park me hating on dress car Parks may replace it because Michael famously doesn't like Raiders much. That's episode four thirteen, Top five Spielberg Scenes, Episode three seventy nine. And then there's other reviews going back to two thousand and fives or ranging from two thousand and five's War of the World's That's episode twenty to twenty twenty two's The Fableman's That's episode nine hundred. Gareth Edwards, who made Rebirth well the creator. We talked about that on nine thirty nine, Rogue one six fifteen, twenty fourteen's Godzilla four ninety one streaming or available vod now, Josh The Old Guard Too playing on Netflix. Actually really wanting to see this. We like this movie The Old Guard.

01:50:12
Speaker 2: We did. And this is the first time hearing of the sequel, Me Too, Me Too.

01:50:17
Speaker 3: It's the sequel to the twenty twenty film about a quartet of immortal warriors who protect humanity. Good news that Charlie's theren and really good news that Keiki Lane is back, among others. Director Gina Prince Bythewood not back in limited release, you can see forty Acres. This is a movie set in a famine decimated near future about rural black farmers struggling to safeguard their farm. So this seems pretty intense. Matt Neglia from the Next Best Picture says it's a gnarly post apocalyptic survival thriller and Danielle Deadweiler is no nonsense and tough as nails.

01:50:53
Speaker 2: Did you see that coming, Josh? That she can do anything? But I mean after her performance of the piano lesson, she's deaf, definitely, you know, a draw for whatever she's doing. And this this setup sounds pretty good too, so I might have to catch up with forty.

01:51:05
Speaker 3: Acres also being re released in theaters. This is Spinal Tap. This was part of our eight from eighty four review, along with Stop Making Sense and Purple Rain that was on episode seven seven Film Spotting. Yeah, great show, And I'm just going to say this real quick. This past weekend, the band that I've been in since seventh grade had to get together because we had a show Saturday night in our hometown. And just in case you thought maybe Spinal Tap somehow still wasn't relevant to bands, or wasn't a film that most people our age didn't still adore. We might have sat there Friday night at about one in the morning, having a few beers and just watched a super cut of all the best lines and left our butts off.

01:51:52
Speaker 2: Josh, So you do this after the show, not to show, to get ready for to get ready? That's what I was wondering. That makes more sense. Did it pay off? Did you guys kill?

01:52:01
Speaker 3: We did okay, but we also did have some spinal tap like moments on stage.

01:52:06
Speaker 2: It was fitting. Well, see, this is what happens.

01:52:10
Speaker 3: Well, it's really what happens when the performance is also your practice. Also out, you can see Video Heaven, a documentary about the era of the neighborhood video store from Alex ross Perry. It's playing at Chicago's Davis Theater on Sunday, July sixth, with a post screening discussion hosted by critic Ignati Visionovetski. In wide release. You can't see Jurassic World Rebirth next week. It's our top five films of twenty twenty five so far and our Pantheon Project review of The Apartment for its sixty fifth anniversary.

01:52:40
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Desso and Sam van Holgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar Special thanks to everyone at wbeazy Chicago. More information is available at wbez dot org. For film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam M. Kempenar. Thanks for listening.

01:53:00
Speaker 3: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

01:53:03
Speaker 2: Good Bye.

01:53:20
Speaker 3: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family at film spotting family dot com and get access to ad free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, for the first time, all in one place, the entire film Spotting archive going back to two thousand and five. That's a film Spotting Family dot com panimly