Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep11 - Biting Fingers When Taking Treats - Puppies with "Rough Mouths"

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I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist,

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and this is a Puppy Culture
potluck podcast.

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You bring the topics,
we bring the conversation.

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Well, when it rains, it pours.

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And this week it's raining puppies

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who take treats like piranhas.

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We got this question
four times on our different groups

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this week from both breeders
and puppy owners.

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So I'm going to read you a sample
that's representative

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of all the posts that we got.

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I have a litter of seven week old puppies
and they're doing great with Puppy

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Culture, manding, free stack, self-control
and so on.

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Really great puppies,
but they get really excited

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the second I'm giving a treat and snap
like piranhas

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at my fingers and the food.

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Well, it's
something we have to teach puppies.

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Okay?

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We we have to teach puppies
how to take food from our fingers.

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It's a tutorial issue.

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It's not something that

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we have to stop them from biting us
or teach them somehow.

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That biting is bad.

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It's more just a question
of physically teaching them

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the mechanical skill of taking a treat

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from a human being's fingers.

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So let me put this into perspective
for you.

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From from the puppies perspective.

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Puppies do not have the fine motor skills,
nor do

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they have the learned behavior
of taking treats from a human's fingers.

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When you first take a treat
and bring it down to your puppy

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to feed the puppy, first of all, the puppy

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just gets this huge
scent cloud right there, just like,

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wow, there's all this excitement
coming down, like there's a scent cloud.

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The puppy doesn't
have a lot of useful vision.

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And even if they did, puppies
do not rely on vision at this point.

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Okay?

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So they just, they, their,

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they know there's food,
there's excitement about the food.

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They're not really sure where it is.

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So they're just going to kind of
start grabbing.

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And then if you snap away
your finger quickly

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or are not very careful to actually place
the food in the puppy's mouth,

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you get this action of the puppy
kind of getting desperate, excited,

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aroused, unable to find the food, unable
to locate the food, and they start

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snapping at and grabbing whatever's there,
which is your fingers and the food.

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Okay.

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I have never encountered a puppy

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that took treats roughly from hand
that this was not the case.

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Okay.

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Where
I could not in a very short period of time

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and I'm going to tell you how I do it.

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Show that puppy how to take treats gently

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from hand and completely eliminate,

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you know, any problem.

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But the problem is if you don't,
if you haven't addressed this

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when they're puppies,
it becomes a learned behavior.

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Okay.

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And that's where you get adults
that draw blood

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when when you go to give them
treats and can have hard mouths.

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Because if they never learn the skill
of taking treats from hand,

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you know,
now you're into a different territory.

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And I'm not going to address that today
because it's on a different level.

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I mean, you might have to wear gloves.

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It could be a longer process,
but I am going to address

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exactly how you deal with this in puppies.

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Okay. So

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let's go back to our puppy
sitting there in the scent

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cloud with all that exciting food smell.

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And they're really unable
to locate that food.

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And if you don't believe me
about how little puppies

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use their eyesight to locate food ...

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if you are part of our Newborn to New Home
breeder course,

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we have a video up there of a puppy
doing scent work.

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And it's a it's a piece of food

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on a plate in plain
sight in front of the puppy.

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And you put the puppy five inches from it
and the puppy actually sniffs.

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You can see him sniffing along

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the ground on to the plate,
moving away from the food,

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even though it's right
in front of his eyes and locating it just

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with his sense of smell.

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Now, if you're not in that breeder course

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and you don't have access to that video,
make your own.

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Set up your phone

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camera video on a little tripod,

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put a plate on the ground
with a piece of food on it,

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and put your puppy about six inches away
and watch.

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You're going to see that that puppy
uses his nose to find that food.

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When you look back at that film
and slow it down,

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you're going to see
what I'm talking about.

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So really, you think you bring this
treat down, it's so obvious.

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It's right in front of their face.
They're not seeing it. Okay?

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They're working blind and they have to,
you have to give them a chance

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to narrow down that scent cloud
and figure out where that food is.

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Number one, you're going to do this

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without any other dog or puppy around,
because that definitely can add

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to the excitement
and franticness of the puppy because they,

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they're competing with the other puppies
or the other dogs

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or they're afraid one of the other animals
is going to get it.

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So it slows down the learning process
and they just start grabbing.

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So number one,
you're always going to do this alone.

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That's your first tip.

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Number two, you are going to hold that

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treat a fairly large size for your puppy.

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Okay?

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You're going to hold it between your thumb
and your index finger

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and you are going to slowly
bring it right down in front of your puppy

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and almost push it into your puppy's mouth
a little bit.

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Okay.

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And you are going to hold your finger
still until that puppy

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takes that food out
from between your fingers

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and you're going to allow them
to take it out of your fingers

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and keep your fingers there
for just a second afterwards.

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Okay.

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So the puppy can slowly understand
what has to be done.

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Now, you might have to use

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a pretty big treat
to start out with to avoid being bitten.

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But most puppies, if they're,

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if you're working one on one with them
and you bring your hand down

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slowly to their level,
push it in toward their muzzle

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and hold your hand still, they will just
gently take that treat out of your finger.

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They're going, they're going to
figure it out pretty soon.

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If you cannot have success with that,

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I would say this is, you know, a two B,
you could use a meatball.

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Okay. A raw
I use a raw hamburger meatball.

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You can hold the puppy in one, one arm,

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hold the meatball in the other,
and just bring it into their face.

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Okay, so you're holding the puppy

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so the puppy can't wiggle away
and get too far away and get confused.

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And you're going to bring that meatball
right in

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and let them take a bite of that meatball
and then take your hand away.

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It's just a way to have something

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bigger that

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you can break off into pieces
and not get bitten.

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Okay.

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So now you've slowly taken
that nice sized treat.

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You've brought it right down
to the puppy's level

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and almost pushed the treat
into the puppy's mouth.

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You're going to do that a few times, okay?

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You're going to have sessions
of just doing that until that you see that

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that puppy, when you hold that treat
just about an inch from that puppy's nose,

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that the puppy can sort of locate

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that treat,
find it and pluck it from your fingers.

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This is what we call our
take a treat protocol.

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And it you know, it's
something that I never really realized

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that breeders didn't know that they had to
do, shall I say.

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And so I added, added it after

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Puppy Culture.

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But we do do this now
and I do recommend it

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if you're a puppy owner to just work,
it seems like a fluff protocol,

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but just work on the skill of the puppy
taking the treat from your fingers.

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Now I'm going to put in here
at this juncture,

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what do people often recommend

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for puppies with rough mouths
when they take treats?

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Put it on a fork, And, you know,
I think it's a little bit misleading

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because you think, oh, yeah, well,
they're going to put it on a fork

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and then they'll get poked
if they bite hard

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and they're going to learn,
you know, that it hurts

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and therefore
they won't bite hard anymore.

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But that's not what's going on.

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What's going on is you can hold the fork

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still and you're
not afraid of getting your fingers bitten.

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So you can hold it there
and allow the puppy the latitude

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to learn how to navigate that scent cloud
and get to that

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treat and take it off the fork.

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I mean, they really don't have any desire
to bite hard.

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I mean, it's it's extra expended energy.

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They don't, it's not a default
that they're going to bite hard.

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But when they're panicked, excited,
want to grab the food and don't

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have the tutorial skills to get the food,
this is what they're going to do.

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So by all means,
if you're just really worried

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about getting bitten,
you can start with this treat on a fork.

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But again, the fork should be stuck
still and right at the level of the puppy.

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And because all you're doing is teaching
the puppy how to navigate to that treat.

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Okay, next tip,

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common mistake that, we all do it.

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Okay. Puppy owners, breeders.

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I find myself,
I always have to remind myself about this.

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When you are working with a puppy

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and you are click
treating them for a behavior,

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allow them the time to finish

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chewing before you move off.

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So if, for instance,
you're teaching heeling, you click,

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you treat for the puppy
being in the magic circle and then wait.

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Watch the puppy.

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Slowly
bring your hand down, put your fingers

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right in front of his muzzle.

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Allow him to get the treat and watch him
and allow him

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to finish chewing and swallowing
and then move on.

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Okay, that quick

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dart of here,
take the food and then run it.

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So it creates
a little bit of panic in the puppy, okay,

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because they're grabbing,
they're trying to swallow quickly.

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They can't they really can't walk and chew
gum at the same time yet.

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So slow everything down.

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Give the puppy a chance to finish chewing,
then move off.

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If you're teaching a stationary,
even behavior

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like down or sit
or you're luring or whatever you're doing

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before you initiate the next repetition,
allow the puppy to finish chewing.

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Again, with young puppies, and I would say

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under 16 weeks old,
I have never yet encountered one

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that did not respond well in immediately
to what I just described.

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Now, there's a slightly different issue

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when you are working in a group, because
sometimes you are working in a group,

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sometimes you're working in a group
for instance, if you are a puppy owner

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and you're teaching dogs to wait
their turn

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to get treats, which again
we cover in our puppy owner course.

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So I'm not going to go
over these protocols, but

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they you will
sometimes be working in groups.

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Okay.

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Number one, I recommend that

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you work on this separately
and the puppy has a soft mouth

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and good treat taking before you proceed
to working in a group.

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Okay, same thing for breeders.

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There are group exercises
that we do teaching puppies

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to work,
you know, display behaviors in a group.

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However, I do recommend that you have done
take a treat and done

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all this soft mouth work beforehand
before you proceed to working in a group.

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And if you do have one that's working,
taking treats hard

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when you're working in a group, I
recommend, you know, you cut your engines,

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take that puppy out of the group,
work with that puppy a little again,

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and then try a little bit later again
in the group.

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Okay.

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But that all having been said,
the excitement of being in a group

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can make puppies and dogs grab food hard.

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In fact,
that's one of your best indicators

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of your animal's internal state
is how how rough their mouth is.

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Okay.

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They get they tend to get more rough
and tighter in the jaw

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and rake your fingers
more as they're more aroused.

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And being in a group often will arouse
them for all the reasons we talked about.

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Now, what do you do?

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What I recommend is a tactile marker.

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If you are in our Newborn to New Home
breeder group,

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we do cover tactile markers, but for you
that are not, I will briefly describe it,

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which is instead of a click,

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you power up a touch on the head.

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Okay?

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Or it could be a touch on the shoulder.

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It could be, but it's a tactile marker.

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So you tap the puppy
instead of clicking the puppy.

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I find that for me,

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doing a tap just on the cheek
on the side of the face works better.

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Sometimes I'll do the top of the head,
but the top of the head can be trickier

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to get to.

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It just seems to be easier to tap
just sort of on the cheek on the side

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and I power it up
just like I power up the clicker.

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I do that feed, do that
feed, do that feed.

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Then when you're in a group,
you can tap the puppy

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that's going to get the treat
and feed that puppy.

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And you will be shocked

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at how calm the entire group becomes.

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Well, I hope that helped you guys.

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It seems like it's an epidemic this week.

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I imagine, you know, it's

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the middle of winter
and probably that doesn't help either.

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So possibly

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if you are seeing this spring up suddenly
and the weather's been bad

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and maybe your puppy's around a little bit
tight, one final thing I might throw out

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there is perhaps doing some scent work
or some kind of game.

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You know,
if you can't get outside and take a walk,

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if you can get outside and take a walk,
that's great.

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But you know, anything you can do
to sort of bring down the temperature

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a little bit on those puppies
is also going to make this go easier.

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If you liked this

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00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,280
podcast, you'll love our Puppy
Owner Course

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00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,080
available at madcapuniversity.com.

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00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,360
If you're a breeder,
check out our breeder course

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00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,360
also available at madcapuniversity.com.

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Well that's it for this time.

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Thanks for listening.

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Bye bye.