Emergency Podcast: Braves Acquire Mauricio Dubón

00:00:21
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Habit Territory Podcast. Hope, wherever you are and wherever you are listening, you are ready for a fresh full scoop of deja vu. That's right, not one, but two episodes from one of your favorite podcast stuos when it comes to cover the Braves. Here all the Habit Territory Podcast by self Sean Covid along with Stephen Tolbert. Again, you are not having a Groundhog Day experience. We are back and better than ever with a second podcast episode this time. In the first episode we talked about the Braves re signing closer right so Iglesias. But in this episode we're going to dice sec the other move that the Braves made, the rumored potential move from earlier today, the Braves trading for utility man Mauricio Duvon and Stephen Hey always love when you break down anything. When it comes to the Braves, There's many different things that this acquisition can mean, but let's first start with the player himself what his value is to this team. Because even though I say utility man, even though I say a name that probably Mady have attributed to the Bitch throughout his career, this is someone that could be a very valuable get for Atlanta.

00:01:35
Speaker 2: What's up Buddy again for the second time tonight about literally as we as we hit stop recording on the Rossio Iglesias contract are the rossio Oglesias podcast, this news broke and so we went into full like what the hell are we supposed to do here? So we literally stopped that podcast. Got you know, it's in the editing and uploading process now and just one so it's gonna be two emergencies shows tonight. But credit to Mark Bowman. He talked about today that the Braves had inquired about Mariso Dubon and this is a fascinating move and we're gonna get into the reasons why, but so Debon is just to get the particulars out the way. Debon is a thirty one year old utility player that's played for the Astros for the last six years something like that. I didn't look and see how long he's been in the majors, but he's been in the majors quite a bit. I mean, he's not a young kid. He's not a you know, a new player. The Braves did send away Nick Allen. We're gonna give a shout out at a send away to Nick Allen at some point in the show that was the whole trade and Risio Debon for Nick Allen that the Astros are trying to save some money. Dubon is projected to make six million dollars in arbitration next year, and this leads to some fascinating conversations about what the Braves are planning at shortstop and what the Braves are planning in the lineup. This is a major utility piece. Dubon literally played all over the diamond last year in a bunch of games. So we're gonna get into it. We're gonna talk, We're gonna go in depth and try to figure out what this means. But the ripples effect, the ripple effects of this trade are fascinating to me. And you know, we learned about it three minutes ago, so I'm kind of thinking through it all as we probably as we talk here. But it's a fascinating little trade.

00:03:30
Speaker 1: And Dubon himself is a very unique talent because what he does he's very very good at. It's just that there may not be many people who put a lot of value on it. And what Dubon does is that he legitimately is one of the most utilized utility men in Major League Baseball. But not only that. Not only that, for you to be able to play multiple positions, and I'm talking about four to five positions double digit games year in and year out, like Debond does, you have to be able to play them at least at a passable level. Defensively, the calling card from Mauricio Debon is that he plays nearly every position that he does, which is every outfield position and every infield position besides first base. He plays them at an above average to elite defensive level. He's a two time Gold Glove winner when it comes to the utility man role for defense in his career. So we're not just talking about a guy who is capable of playing nearly every position on the diamond. He's capable of playing at an elite defensive level. That carries plenty of value, and it especially comes into play for the Braves for two reasons. Number one, when again, like we discussed, you know, a few weeks ago, when we did our episode on how how important it was for the Brace to potentially get a utility guy, the Braves have had nearly every one of their position player starters missed a significant chunk of time over the past two years. That's one. The second thing is that we talked about is how you can't have league worst offensive production up the middle, in centerfield, shortstop, in second base. Through the first half of the season, Dubon is shown an offensive floor of being slightly above or slightly below league average, which is much better than the league worst average. But again, he plays elite defense all across the diamond. That to a team like the Braves who has suffered through injuries and has suffered through some bad, bad streaks off from multiple position players, that's where the value of adding a player like Dubon comes in.

00:05:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm gonna read off what the positions he played. Just this is just last year with the Astros. So he played forty eight games in left field, played forty six games at second pace, He played thirty three games at shortstop, He played twenty four games at third base, He played seventeen games in center field, he played four games at first base, and he played three games in right So that's literally all of them except catcher. He played all the positions at shortstops specifically, even though he only played thirty three games he was a plus eight outs above average for in terms of Baseball savants, you know, metric. So that is incredibly valuable. And like you just said, the Braves have dealt with position player injuries for years. They need somebody who can play all over the diamond. His bat is listen, his bat is not good. He's got a career eighty five WRC plus, which is very clearly below average. But I do want to point out that there are levels to being a bad hitter, and Nick Allen was the lowest level of bat Like basically a pitcher was what Nick Allen. Nick Allen was like a fifty I think Gallen's career WFC plus was like in the fifties, fifty four or something like that. Dubon's is like eighty five. So even though Debon is a light hitter, he is a substantially better hitter than Nick Gallen. And that matters because it is technically an upgrade.

00:07:16
Speaker 1: Where it gets.

00:07:17
Speaker 2: Fascinating is this, and you brought it up. Dubon is said to make six million dollars in arbitration. Assuming the Braves get to arbitration with Dubon, they could sign him to a contract and negate arbitration and change the AAV and maybe that's the way they go. That's probably what I would do, So I don't have six million dollars sit on the bench if that's what they're gonna do. But right now he's projected to make six million dollars in arbitration. I think five point eight is the actual number. So here's the question we have to ask, are they planning on Dubon being the starting shortstop, because again, six million dollars is a lot of money to just sit on the bench. Most bench players don't make that much money, especially on a team like the Braves that don't have like a Dodger's level budget. Or are they going to allow him to be the utility player that plays all over the diamond anytime somebody's hurt, anytime somebody needs today. There's tremendous value in that. We know that, and still go get a shortstop because if they're gonna do if he's gonna be the shortstop, and and Scott's been talking about this in our in our DMS, and he's one hundred percent right, if he's gonna play shortstop, the Braves have to go get a big bat somewhere they have to, because Dubon is not a good enough hitter to be the only offensive upgrades you make to the lineup. So if you're gonna, if you're gonna do this as your shortstop, what he can do defensively, and he's an offensive upgrade over Nick Allen, you have to go add a legitimate bad at DH. You just have to. Not knowing what you're gonna get from Sean Murphy, Dubon is not good enough on the offensive side of the ball to be the the only offensive upgrade for the offseason. If you're not gonna do that, if you're still gonna, go get a shortstop. What this tells me is the Brave have a decent chunk of change to spend this offseason if they're comfortable having a six million dollar guy on the bench as with no clear starting role. Like if their Braves go get another shortstop to start, the bond does not have a place to start on the team all all of the positions are filled by full time players. So if you're gonna if they're gonna still go get a starting level shortstop and have Dubon on the bench, this tells me the Braves have quite a bit of money to spend, because that's the only reason you would trade for a six million dollar utility piece, because you're not sill, especially when you still got to go get a starting pitcher and a shortstop. So that's the question. What what what role did they just acquire Dubon for? That's what I want. I'm kind of keeping an eye on Twitter to see if any of the Beat writers, anybody sends out any clarification is he being acquired? They mentioned when they did the blue box in the in the in the tweet they did heavily mentioned his utility ability, which tells me he could be utility. It's just a lot of money to pay for a utility piece. So that's what I want to know. What did they just acquired him for? Because that changes how I view this trade and what I think is going what this trade means for the rest of the off season. So that's the question. We need to We need it, we need it answered. What What is Mauricio Dubon? What was he just traded to do? Is he the starting shortstop or is he the number one utility player on the Bitch.

00:10:33
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00:11:35
Speaker 1: So, Stephen, you asked the question. You pondered the question, what is Mauricio Dubond on this Braves team? What role is he going to play? And I think that the best answer that I can give to that, just from my perspective is it's not defined yet and that's okay. Yeah, that's a good position for the Braves to be. What I think the Braves took it advantage of doing is from the Astros perspective, they made this move for a player that was going to be due six million dollars and they potentially were going to not tender a contract on Friday. They instead went ahead and traded him and got savings in Nick Allen, who they may still non tender, but at the very least they got a backup infielder with elite defense at a much cheaper cost for the Braves. I feel like that his ultimate role in twenty twenty six is not defined yet, but they're okay with that because they've at least raised the floor in multiple ways when it comes to their depth of position players. And we talked about how important that was. We talked about because of the injuries. We talked about how because of the streakiness of some of the position players. We talked about how much of a liability offensively the shortstop role was. If the Braves could find a reliable utility player in a singular source that helps answer so many those questions, And they've got that singular source now. Because for the Braves, I agree Mauricio Debond being the starting shortstop is probably a little less ideal than him being a clear utility guy. But the point that I want to bring up is this, say that he is the main shortstop. You've got a guy who still is able to play Gold Glove level defense, which we know Alexanthopolis puts a lot of value on. But you also have a guy who over the past three years has had a ninety seven, eighty six and eighty WRC plus overall with runners on base, He's had one hundred and five, one hundred and five and eighty WRC plus over the past three seasons. Overall, over the past two years, the Braves shortstop position has had a sixty five WRC plus overall. I've mentioned it before many after going through the past years of having near league worst offensive production from the shortstop position. So many people want a difference maker offensively at the shortstop position. That is just so hard to find. But for a team like the Braves, it is a significant upgrade if you can keep good defense at the position but have slightly below average to league average offensive production at the position. And that's what Dubad offers, and he's consistently offered that he's not Hasan Kim, and Hassan Kim still could be in the Braves plans, but in terms of where they were before this trade versus where they are now, I think it raises the floor and they can pivot multiple ways, but they're in a better position to pivot based off what comes available to him this offseason.

00:14:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's so fascinating, like because it does give you leverage, right because now you do have a guy who you can when this trade face say, I could start where you Sue Debon at shortstop and just go get a big bat somewhere else. So like if you're talking to Scott Boris about Hassan Kim, you know, if you have Nick Allen sitting there and everyone knows you don't want to play Nick Allen for one hundred and sixty two games. You know, it's harder to make that argument with a straight face. Now you can say, listen, I got a guy who's a damn good defender. Marsio Deban is a fantastic glove at short stuff, and that is what Alex has talked about for years, is the most important part of playing short stuff. On top of the fact that he's just an insane utility player. But you know, he's a great defender, and he does have more offensive upside than Nick Allen, just because Nick Allen is is I mean, all due respect to Nick Allen, he was a great defender. Nick Allens is like a pitcher. He's like it was the worst offensive player in baseball. He's I mean, he just had zero offensive upside. Debon put up like a ninety seven WRC plus a couple of years ago. You know, he put an eighty five last year or two years ago, so he does have like offensive capability. Even like with an eighty WRC plus last year, he was like a two win player. So you can make the argument he can be the starting short stop. You just have to go get a big bat somewhere else. You have to You cannot run this lineup out there with all the struggles they've had the last two years and have Mauricio Dubon be the biggest hitter. You add, you cannot do that, and so like that's what I'm saying. The ripple effects are fascinating. If, however, he is just going to be the utility guy, this is a home run move. Like if they're going to still go get a shortstop and a starting pitcher and maybe a DH And this is just like we were taking advantage of the fact that the Astros needed to clear some money because Marcia Debann is a better player than Nick Allen. Like, this is not a fair trade. This is not an even trade from player to player. Now, Nariso Debon is a is a rental. He's only got team control for one more year, his last year of arbitration. And again, I would not be stunned if we found out in a couple of days the Braves signed him to like a two year deal, maybe like a two year year, eight million dollar deal where it lowers the AAV so you don't have a six million dollar guy sitting on the bench. That one't stun me at all. But I want to know what his role is designed to be. And like you said, he like Alex may not know. Alex might just be saying, hey, now we have we have a backstop. We have an you know, we have a shortstop in case we can't get something done with hass On Kim. We have somebody that's better than Nick Allen. That is an upgrade that you know, it's a it's a it's a decent plan B. And maybe that's why Alex did. It's like he's you know, it helps me negotiate from a stronger, you know, a stronger place. It's just got so many ripples. It's just if they want him to be the starting shortstop. And I don't know that they could still be talking with hass On Kim right now. But if they want him to be the starting shortstop, they gotta go get a big bat. That is, if you take nothing else from the show. If he's the guy, then all right, go get me a real DH, like a real bopper at DH or another a good Outfit or a Byron Buxton. Go give me somebody that's an impact bat somewhere on this roster. Because the bond cannot be that he will not be that he's a great defender. He's a great utility piece. He's one of the best utility players in baseball, and if that's what they got him for, then that's awesome. If they got him to be in the starting lineup every day, they need to go get a real beat.

00:18:28
Speaker 1: And I think that that tying in these two moves together, the resigning Rice e Iglesias as well as getting Marisio devond today, the real value that comes from this, I think is that, don't get me wrong, it certainly should be considered a necessity for the Braves to upgrade the rotation, for the Braves to get better in terms of the offense, for the Braves to add multiple pieces to their bullpen. Those are you can consider necessities. But today the Braves went out and check the boxes on the absolute must haves for this offseason. They got themselves a closer and a reliable one in Rice cell Iglesias, and they also at the very least did get a better option at shortstop than what they had in house. And if that if Dubon instead of being that can instead be a utility guy, then they did even better because now they've gotten a singular source, really good insurance for when that injury bug bites again, or someone needs an off day. So that's one thing that I will say, just because it may feel as if there's more uncertainty or that the ultimate value of this move is going to be more based on what happens in the future, I think in a vacuum, it definitely needs to be said. The Braves took care of multiple absolute must have moves today, and I applaud Alex for doing that. You've got your reliable closer, You've got a better option at least to be your main shortstop at that how the offseason winds up playing out, and if not that, you've got one of the best utility man in baseball. And we have been talking all off season up to this point. How that was multiple must haves for this Braves team to get this offseason.

00:20:14
Speaker 2: If Dubon was acquired to be the number one bench guy and be the mystery utility all over the field, this is an A plus plus trade, A plus. No brain, Dubon is better than Nick Allen. Like, just off that alone, it's a great trade. I understand there's different years of service time, but like, Debon is just better than Nick Allen. If that's what he was acquired for. I love it. If he was acquired to be the starting shortstop, I don't love it. I may love it. Well, no, I'm never gonna love it. I may like it depending on what else they do with DH. If he was acquired to be the starting shortstop, I have a lot more questions. We just don't know that yet, and like you said, Alex may not know that yet. I'm very curious to hear when Alex talks. You know, obviously they just signed Iglesias. I think Alex is probably gonna have to speak to the media in the next couple of days just because of the Iglesias signing. This trade will obviously come up. I'm very curious to hear what he says, like, no, no, you know, this doesn't change our short stop plans at all. We're still very much in that market. Or no, this is the guy we wanted all along. Depending on how he answers and he may give an un answer, we might not get any certainty there. But again, how I feel about this is very much tied to the role Dubon is expected to play. And if it's a utility role, this is a home run. And if it's a starting shortstop, I'm much less high on it, and I need to see what else they do, specifically to the lineup, where we've already had questions the last two years. You've got Riley coming back from injury. You have no idea what you're gonna get from Michael Harris, you have no idea what you're gonna get from Azzie Alb's like, you just have these big questions. You've potentially lost Marcelo Zuna. You know, the lineup has questions, and part of getting a better short was helping answer some of those lineup questions, not just the defense, but the lineup. So if Dubon is your starting shortstop, we still have a lot of lineup questions that we need answered. So we'll know in the next couple of days, probably when Alex talks what this, what his role is supposed to be, and that clarity will help guide how I kind of feel about this at the moment.

00:22:24
Speaker 1: Correct. And the other thing is is that you could see, you know, a bit of offensive upside with with the Mauricio Dubaud as well. The Braves have been able to find that with guys, you know, not necessarily like Dubond, but again, they've had a track record of being able to help guys improve their offensive production they added previous stops. I don't think that there's a ton of offensive upside with Dubad. But again, if you could get a guy at shortstop who could play Gold Globe level defense like we know dubond can and give you around a seven hundred w or a seven hundred oh ps or better at eighty five WRC plus or better, that's a really valuable get for a team that has just absolutely had shortstop as a liability. But I agree with you. I do agree with you. If this is the only move that you make to the lineup this offseason, it certainly is underwhelming. But if this is the first move where you're just basically raising your floor in terms of your first bitch option and you've still got plans to go get a clear upgrade that this is a great move. Will have to wait for the rest of the off season to determine that. But I do think that it puts the Braves in a better position to pivot however they want to, because they do have a guy who could play multiple roles, and not only that excel in that role moving forward.

00:23:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's it just comes down to that, what what was the point of this What exactly is the point of this move? Is he a utility guy or is the the starting short stop? And that answer changes how I feel. And I've been tracking Twitter the whole time just to make sure a we get hit with another transaction tonight, and b to see if anybody on the Brave side was tweeting anything out. A lot of times after a trade, Alex will send out like the group text messages to all the Beat writers to explain some of the rationale. I was seeing if any of that was out there. As as of the end of this recording, we still don't have a clear answer of what this trade means. And like you said, Alex may not know. He might not have that answer yet. He might just you know, this is a backup plan and this is our This is securing the backup plan before you secure the primary plan. And if that's the case, then all right, we'll wait and see what happens. And so that's kind of how we're gonna sign off tonight. Is my how I feel about this trade will very much depend on what else happens and where debon ends. Up playing what his role ends up being, and if it's the starting shortstop, I need a real DH. I have to have a real We have to have a real DH because there's nowhere else to put a big bat and the Braves need another bat. So you know, it's pretty cut and dry. If he is the utility guy, this is a fantastic trick, fantastic trait. I love it, love it, love it. I would sign him. I try to sign him to a multi year deal if I could, to be in that role. He is one of the best utility players in all of baseball, and he's a true utility. He can play every spot on the diamond that's not catcher, and he could probably play catcher if he had to, Quite honest like, he is a fantastic piece to have on a bench. So we'll just have to wait and see.

00:25:30
Speaker 1: But I want to end on this again kind of putting together both podcasts that we've done tonight for the multiple moves the Braves have made. It's November, what nineteenth, and we're talking about the Braves making multiple boots where they're clearly added payroll and they're clearly getting talent that's going to make the better for next year. That is a significantly better start and more ideals start to this offseason compared to last. Again, I know that it remains to be seen what happens for the rest of this off season, but I don't think that that should go without being stated. What we were hoping to see the Braves do. We've now got valid indications they're looking to do. They're looking to spend money, they're looking to improve the team, and they're looking to address clear needs that have been there for multiple years. And that is a really good way to start this off season. Now you've got your closer, you've got your utility man, which we talked about via a underrated need. If that guy's your shortstop, that's fine, go out make your other big move to make it okay for him to be your shortstop. But at the very least, the Braves have got a couple other more significant needs taken care of to where they can fully focus on the areas starting pitching and adding that other bat that could really be the difference making moves this off season.

00:26:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to put it into a context between last off season and last trade deadline, so basically the last twelve months we did one emergency podcast that wasn't injury related. That was you know, the Braves made a move related and that was the signing of Jerks and Profar. That was it.

00:27:16
Speaker 1: That's all.

00:27:16
Speaker 2: This is the only emergency podcast we did last offseason, and we didn't do any of the trade deadline because the Braves didn't do anything in the trade deadline. Tonight, we've done two emergency so we've done more emergency podcast tonight than we have in the last twelve months combined. So to your point, it is a much better start. The Braves are clearly going to be active. We just need a little bit more clarity on what this trade means before we can really give like Okay, I love this, I hate this. I need to see more and we'll get that. We'll probably get that the next couple of days. I really do think alex Is gonna have to talk to the media at some point here with two big moves happening on the same day, obviously Thanksgiving is coming up, we are going to do a show on Friday because it's the non tender deadline, which now, by the way, includes Mauricio Dubon. Need to add that little nugget in the Braves. You know, their list of arbitration eligible guys just got increased or none didn't increase by one because Nick Allen was already in the list, So you gotta subtract Nick Allen, and then you got to add Mariso Debon at a much higher number because Debon is in his last year of arbitration. It's gonna be close to six million. He's gonna he's by far away their highest ARC guy. So you know, Friday's deadline just became a lot more interesting because already gonna see a multi year contract you know, to be a utility guy. You know, that could answer some of our questions. Yeah, it's just a fascinating move and I'm very curious to see the next like twenty four hours, what what news or what you know ideas come out out of the Braves front office about what this means. And I think that will help guide the guide our opinion a little bit.

00:28:53
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we all wanted a busy off season. It seems like we're starting off a beneficial one as well. Again, especially with the Dubon move. The value of that will ultimately depend on what else the Braves do. But again, the very least because the Braves have gotten some needs taking care of. They now know how much money they had to attribute to getting those needs taken care of. You've got more certainty on what avenues they can take to really get the difference makers for the rotation and the lineup that we hope they'll get this offseason. So again, that's part of the benefit that comes from these moves. Stephen, anything else from you, I know that we've had plenty to discuss tonight. Again. Welcome back to Atlanta, or iceell Iglesias, Welcome to Atlanta. Mauricio Debon. I think at the end of the day, go ahead.

00:29:39
Speaker 2: Sorry, just checking Twitter as we're doing this. Alexandoplis is currently talking to the media. All right, here's what he said. Alex and Thoplos says infilm Risso Debond's role will be determined by how the rest of the all season develops. He says, they can do everything except catch We made the same joke, and he might even be able to do that. He even made our joke. Versatility is very important. He says. He feels comfortable with them at shortstop, but expects him to be more of a Swiss army knife. So yeah, all right, so basically what we just said, Alex isn't really even quite sure what the role is. So that's where we're gonna leave it is. If he's the starting shortstop, then I have questions about the lineup and we need to add a bat. If he's the utility, if he's just a Swiss army knife, you know, old school just can play everywhere a utility player. I love this move, and I don't think Alex knows either yet, so we'll see.

00:30:38
Speaker 1: And that's fine. That's why you make these moves early in the off season. That's why Alex Adopolis usually is so active in the off season. He gets his absolute needs taken care of. It did for the other moves that could pivot a variety of different ways. He at least has got sub moves done that makes the tea better, so he could pivot in the way that he needs to to really make the move to make the team better. That's kind of what I've reading from these moves and from his comments. Steven, anything else from you as we wrap up this edition to the Hamber Territory Podcast.

00:31:10
Speaker 2: No, that's it. I mean again, it's good to see activity. Yes, right after last off season of literally one move happening all off season, and then the trade deadline where nothing happened. It's good to see activity, it's good to see moves. They're clearly addressing stuff. The devil's going to be in the details of exactly what else they do. I still think they need a real short stop. I don't think Dupon is a large enough upgrade at shortstop to say that this is what I want to happen. And if they don't know greater at short stop, then they have to get a DH It's just no, there's no two ways about it. And they still need starting pitching and they still need more bullpen help. This should be just two of several emergency podcasts we do over the next few weeks months until we get to spring training. So not already subscribed. Make sure you're subscribed the moment the stuff drops, we are, you know, coordinating and trying to get a show out, you know immediately. Obviously tonight we did two, So make you make sure you're subscribed. And yeah, it should be a very entertaining and interesting offseason.

00:32:17
Speaker 1: And we're gonna be right back with you in forty eight hours. The Braves deadline when it comes to who they are potentially tendering contracts too. Could there be another trade that happens when it comes to Alex and Thopolis trading the way guys he may not necessarily want a tender contracts too. Could the Braves make a move for another move where another team that want to pay a guy and they bring him in. Could we see multi your contracts with a guy like Mauricio Debond. There's a lot of different moves to make at so many different levels, and that's what makes the off season exciting. But at the very least, we have proof that the Braves are likely going to be active throughout the rest of the off season. For Steven Toler, you can find him at be Underscore Outliers on Twitter slash acts. My name is Sean Coleman. You can find me at Stat's sec on Twitter slash x. There is as much of a chance that will be with you in thirty minutes as there is gonna be Friday night. But regardless of what it happens, we're gonna be here for you to cover everything that comes to the Atlanta Braves. Until next time, Go Braves. We'll talk to you again soon. Here on the Hammer Territory podcast,