316 | When Parents Join the Session: Why It Compromises the CCPT Model

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Hope in Kentucky.

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Hello to my Kentuckians.

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Go Wildcats.

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All of y'all are such rabid Wildcats fans.

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I know I can universally say that

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with your blue cars and your blue everything.

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All right,

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so

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we are going to talk about incorporating parents

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and remaining adherent to CCPT today

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as a result of Hope's questions.

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So I'm gonna read parts of that in just a second.

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I just have a couple of housekeeping things.

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First and foremost,

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if you are new to the podcast,

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and I know that happens every single episode.

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So if this is one of your earliest episodes

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that you've listened to or maybe your first ever,

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welcome,

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so glad you're here.

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Thank you for being a part of the Play Therapy Podcast family.

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However,

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not a however,

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and

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we're so glad you're here.

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Welcome.

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And

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please make sure that you go back and listen from episode one.

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This is a seminal curriculum content driven podcast.

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And if you skip ahead to the end,

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you've missed

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all of the really important basis and foundation

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for what we're talking about now.

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So it would be really helpful if you go back also.

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CPRT code is coming for $100 off

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for all of you podcast people.

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So for those of you that have been waiting with bated breath,

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you probably

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died of lack of oxygen a long time ago,

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but

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it's finally here

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and we are launching next week on Monday,

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July 7th.

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So on the 7th,

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we will be releasing a code for podcast listeners so that

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you will be able to get $100 off the course.

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I hope you will take advantage of that.

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That's going to save you a lot of money

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and you get 16 APT approved CEUs,

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and it's going to give you everything you need to facilitate.

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CPRT with confidence,

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not just the content itself,

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but also the direct facilitation coaching as well.

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You get to see me actually teaching parents

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and coaching parents with the content.

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So

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the most comprehensive CPRT course that's out there,

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really excited about it.

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You'll be able to get a code on Monday,

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July 7th,

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so stay tuned for that.

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All righty,

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let me read a couple of components of Hope's email and then we'll dive in together.

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With a lot of my younger clients ages 3 to 5,

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I've been,

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I've begun incorporating parents into session using more of a

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filial therapy approach of modeling and teaching parents these skills.

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Your Play Therapy Parenting Podcast has been invaluable for this as well.

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I'm glad,

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Hope.

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And for those of you that may not know about that,

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that's a really helpful segue while I'm

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taking a left turn really quickly.

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For those of you that maybe are not familiar with my parenting podcast,

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that actually began first.

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So the play therapy.

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parenting podcast has been around longer

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and that is geared for parents with CCPT as the foundations of a parenting approach.

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So if you do not refer parents to that podcast and or

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if you do not take advantage of that as a resource,

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please do so.

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It will really help support your parents.

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It provides them with psycho education,

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it provides them with resources and some coaching in the CCPT model,

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and that is available on play therapy parenting.

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dot com.

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All right,

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so let me continue with the email.

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Recently I ran into a dilemma when using limit setting with a 4 year old client.

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He has a trauma history but a strong bond with his foster mother,

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who he's been placed with for 2 years.

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I set a limit with him in session.

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The toys aren't for putting in our mouths.

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He put the toy in his mouth again right after I said it.

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I think he wasn't quite sure what I said,

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and his foster mother repeated it in a slightly more stern but still kind voice.

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He then got really sad,

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shut down,

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and became unresponsive for several minutes.

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I tried reflecting his feelings back to him and

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giving him choices to play in other ways,

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reassuring him that I was not upset.

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Nothing I tried seemed to work,

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and the foster mother eventually just reverted to

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how she would normally handle the situation,

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telling him that he could either stop pouting and keep playing,

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or that our play session would need to end so that

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he could go home and take a nap to feel better.

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I would love any advice on how to manage this response to limit setting in a

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more child-centered way and coach the foster mother in how to do so as well.

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OK.

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That's a lot.

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We're gonna dive in

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first and foremost,

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we

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at our center and we as CCPTs

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are very much in favor of incorporating parents.

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We know that the outcomes are better.

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We know that when parents are more involved

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we have more longitudinal impact from the.

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Work that we do

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and we know that the filial

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approach is effective because relationship already exists

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between parent and child.

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It has to be created from scratch between us and the child.

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So why not have parents involved in the filial side of things?

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So I am 100% in favor of that.

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Here's where we need to make some tweaks,

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Hope,

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and maybe this is appropriate for many of

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you that are trying to incorporate parents.

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If we're going to incorporate parents,

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we do so in a filial therapy model

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where we coach parents and the child is not present.

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We do not

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have parents in session with kids.

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That is not aligned with CCPT.

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And the CPRT facilitation,

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for example,

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has parents doing play sessions with their children in their own homes,

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and they get to practice what they're learning in a play session,

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but it is at home between the two of them.

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We don't ever want a parent in the room

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when we're providing CCPT

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for a lot of reasons.

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I'll hit some highlights.

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The first is

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it introduces variables that we are not able to control.

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It is a breach of confidentiality

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and it is

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potentially undermining of the therapeutic relationship

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because it is no longer the dyad of us

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and the child now there's another person in the room

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and that dynamic shifts many times,

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the conversation,

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the vibe,

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the tone,

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etc.

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which is exactly what you experienced hope in what you're describing.

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So we absolutely want to involve parents.

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We want parents to be coached and trained.

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We want to provide them with skills and psycho education and resources,

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but it is independent of our work with the child.

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We need to keep those lines separated

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to make sure that CCPT

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is adherently executed.

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When mom is in the room,

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what you're describing is a very consistent standard concern.

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So let's talk through that.

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You set the limit,

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the toys aren't for putting in our mouths,

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and I suspect maybe that was truncated for the email's sake.

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We want to make sure that we do all three steps of that limit.

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So I'm hopeful,

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hope that you said,

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I didn't mean to do that.

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I suspect,

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hope

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that you would have said,

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oh,

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you put that in your mouth,

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but the toys are not for putting in our mouths.

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You can choose

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to put that

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in the sand,

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or you can choose to put that on the floor,

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which do you choose?

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So we would want to go through all three pieces of the limit setting process

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so that the child feels understood,

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the neutral limit has been set and there are alternatives to the behavior.

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And he did it again right away.

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Whether that was confusion,

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whether it was misunderstanding,

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whether it was testing of limits,

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whether it was boundaries,

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and he doesn't really know how to comply.

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I don't know,

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maybe you don't either,

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but now mom

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has interjected,

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so now mom is setting the limit

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in a different tone of voice.

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That no longer is

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unconditional acceptance between you and the child.

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Mom has now intervened and mom has now interjected.

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And it completely

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defeated and dejected

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the child.

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He got sad,

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shut down and became unresponsive.

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All right,

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so then you move into damage control mode.

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You're trying to reflect his feelings

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and give him choices to play in other ways.

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The thing that you said next is where we need to be really careful.

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You said

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I was reassuring him that I was not upset with him.

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When we don't have a third person in the room,

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we never have to reassure a child that we're not upset with them.

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Because if we are adherent to the model,

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it's unconditional acceptance.

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What was missing and what Mom did was the neutrality.

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And that's why neutrality matters so much

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in our CCPT approach.

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Because it was very clear to your client.

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That that did not feel unconditionally accepted,

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and he did not feel that it was neutrally set.

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That's why he shut down.

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So you saying you're trying to reinforce that you are not upset with him,

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that wouldn't have even been necessary if Mom wouldn't have been in the room.

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That's another illustration of why it's just us and the child.

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And you said nothing that you tried seemed to work.

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The

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component of that

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is where we don't rescue a child,

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we don't try to convince a child to be happy.

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We don't try to convince a child to play.

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We don't try to

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distract a child or

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make them feel like it's not a big deal.

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We sit in the pocket of the feelings that the child is experiencing.

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And we patiently and expectantly wait for them to sort it out themselves.

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And so again,

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mom's rushing the process here.

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She has an agenda.

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So instead of you being able to sit in the pocket with him,

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And you being able to just say,

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you've decided that you're not ready to play yet,

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you're still a little bit upset.

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You really wish that

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you

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could have put that toy in your mouth.

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You're choosing to just sit,

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you're choosing not to play yet.

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We're patient and we sit in the pocket,

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and we validate and we make sure the child feels heard and understood.

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But mom kicks in

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and says,

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you can either stop pouting and keep playing.

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That's a threat.

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Or

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our play session would need to end.

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Yikes!

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Kids can't earn or lose play sessions,

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ever.

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Nothing they do or don't do say or don't say ever

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earns them a session or loses them a session.

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If he chose to sit there for the rest of the time and do nothing,

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that is child centeredness.

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That is unconditional acceptance.

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That's our neutrality honoring where he is and what he's choosing to do.

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So my mom saying stop pouting and play,

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or we're going to go home and you don't get to play anymore.

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It's agenda,

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it's control,

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it's dictatorial,

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and now all of a sudden,

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he's threatened with,

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he has to do something or he's not gonna be able to play.

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That is flying in the face of CCPT.

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Again,

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another reason why parents are not in the room.

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And let me go a little bit deeper onto that because

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I've actually been getting a lot of emails lately with therapists saying,

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and mom was in the room,

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dad was in the room,

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caregiver was in the room.

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I actually watched a play session video this week in coaching where

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mom was in the room for the start of the play session.

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So this is a very common thing.

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I actually got an instant or a DM on Instagram.

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This week,

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about the same thing.

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So this is a very pervasive thing that's going on right now.

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Why do we not have parents in the room?

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For all the reasons I've already shared,

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as well as

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Kids do not feel safe and comfortable.

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Being truly raw and vulnerable

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when they have to protect their loved ones from their junk.

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They can't have abandon,

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they can't have reduction of inhibitions,

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they can't say the things they want to do,

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they can't do the things they wanna do,

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they can't play in the ways they want to play

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if they have to safeguard against their parent's reaction.

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Parents can't handle what goes on in play sessions.

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When the kid handcuffs you and

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has you lay on the ground and they act like they're gonna stomp on your head,

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no parent can handle that.

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When you get hit in the mouth with a Hotwheels car

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and your tooth breaks through your lip and you start bleeding,

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no parent can handle that.

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When a kid screams and hits Bobo,

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bloody murder,

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aggression,

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a parent cannot handle that.

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This is why we're the neutral objective third party

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because we can handle it.

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We know it's valuable we know it's significant,

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we know it's therapeutic,

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we know it's necessary we know all these things

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because we understand the model and we have the neutrality

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of it not impacting us.

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Parents cannot distance themselves

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from their parent role.

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So kids are not only protective of their loved ones,

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but parents can't handle

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what has to happen in play sessions for self-actualization to occur.

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Mom could not handle hope

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00:13:21,869 --> 00:13:23,140
that he wasn't playing.

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But he can choose not to play.

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He can choose to just sit in his feelings and not do anything.

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Natural consequence of decisions,

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he chose to put a toy in his mouth.

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Now he's choosing to deal with the outcome of that.

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That is healthy and appropriate for him.

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It helps him learn to comply with boundaries,

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and then he gets threatened that he's gonna lose his play time

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if he doesn't shape up and do what he's supposed to do.

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That is no longer at all CCPT.

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So parents cannot be in the room,

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they can't handle it,

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kids can't do the work they need to do.

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00:14:05,099 --> 00:14:07,409
It doesn't preserve their confidentiality.

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00:14:08,059 --> 00:14:09,409
So many reasons

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why we absolutely want parents involved.

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00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:14,210
We want to help them,

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00:14:14,239 --> 00:14:14,869
equip them,

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00:14:15,140 --> 00:14:15,500
support them,

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00:14:15,619 --> 00:14:16,419
encourage them,

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00:14:16,739 --> 00:14:17,140
train them,

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00:14:17,299 --> 00:14:18,210
psycho educate them,

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00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:18,780
all of it.

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00:14:19,309 --> 00:14:22,419
But that takes place in adult sessions.

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00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:25,500
That is not in the room with the child

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00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:27,109
during CCPT.

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00:14:28,039 --> 00:14:29,909
That is a very different approach.

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00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,039
That's why CPRT,

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00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,309
the filial model,

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00:14:33,559 --> 00:14:36,280
is geared that you meet with the parents only,

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00:14:36,679 --> 00:14:39,109
and parents practice with their children at home.

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That keeps the appropriate division that we need.

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So hope,

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00:14:44,380 --> 00:14:46,130
thank you for sharing that.

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00:14:46,239 --> 00:14:48,650
I hope that that is encouraging to all of you.

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00:14:48,859 --> 00:14:49,890
I hope that

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00:14:50,020 --> 00:14:52,260
that helps you understand the rationale

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00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:54,690
behind making sure that it is clear

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00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:56,450
to parents and children,

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00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:58,659
the playroom is just for you and me.

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00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,830
They need to know that from the get-go,

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because that is what preserves the model,

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00:15:05,119 --> 00:15:07,549
and that's what allows us to remain fully adherent.

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00:15:08,659 --> 00:15:08,900
All right,

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love y'all.

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We'll talk again soon.

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Bye.

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00:15:11,979 --> 00:15:14,780
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.