307 | When Parents Call It a Bribe: Defending Choice Giving in CCPT

0
00:00:00,469 --> 00:00:04,309
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

1
00:00:04,469 --> 00:00:08,180
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

2
00:00:08,510 --> 00:00:08,670
Hi,

3
00:00:08,750 --> 00:00:09,770
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

4
00:00:09,779 --> 00:00:10,510
The Kid Counselor.

5
00:00:10,670 --> 00:00:12,670
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

6
00:00:12,670 --> 00:00:14,960
a master class in child-centered play therapy

7
00:00:15,229 --> 00:00:17,389
and practical support and application for your

8
00:00:17,389 --> 00:00:19,100
work with children and their families.

9
00:00:19,629 --> 00:00:20,399
In today's episode,

10
00:00:20,489 --> 00:00:23,420
I am answering a question from Sarah in California.

11
00:00:24,229 --> 00:00:25,209
Specifically

12
00:00:25,670 --> 00:00:27,350
because a parent raised a question,

13
00:00:27,479 --> 00:00:28,510
so not really

14
00:00:28,719 --> 00:00:31,149
for her more for the parent's response.

15
00:00:31,639 --> 00:00:33,040
So we're gonna dive into that.

16
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,630
I wanted to give you all an update on

17
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:37,509
the

18
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:38,549
live

19
00:00:38,919 --> 00:00:41,310
podcast episode contest.

20
00:00:41,639 --> 00:00:47,790
So everyone who attended the live podcast was invited to share their CCPT story.

21
00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:48,930
Email it to me.

22
00:00:49,509 --> 00:00:51,830
And we were going to choose 3 winners

23
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,709
so that I was able to have a 30 minute call

24
00:00:54,709 --> 00:00:57,150
with each of them to talk about whatever they wanted.

25
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,159
So thank you to those of you who submitted stories.

26
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,300
It was so encouraging to read where you've been and how CCPT found you and

27
00:01:05,830 --> 00:01:09,620
What you've been doing since you've been all in in the model,

28
00:01:09,849 --> 00:01:12,379
really fun for me to share in those stories.

29
00:01:12,750 --> 00:01:14,839
We randomly chose 3 winners.

30
00:01:15,029 --> 00:01:19,089
We did the 300th episode on the 3 year anniversary.

31
00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:19,940
So

32
00:01:20,190 --> 00:01:22,529
3 winners are Tammy,

33
00:01:22,919 --> 00:01:23,620
Kimberly,

34
00:01:23,790 --> 00:01:24,550
and Nancy.

35
00:01:25,230 --> 00:01:27,209
So congrats to you three ladies.

36
00:01:27,419 --> 00:01:32,040
I will be in touch with you all reaching out with scheduling that 30 minute Zoom call.

37
00:01:32,099 --> 00:01:33,250
We'll set that up soon.

38
00:01:33,459 --> 00:01:33,819
So again,

39
00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:34,379
Tammy,

40
00:01:34,580 --> 00:01:36,540
Kimberly and Nancy are the winners,

41
00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:38,660
randomly drawn from all of you that entered.

42
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,580
Thank you so much and we will continue to

43
00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:44,540
have more things like that on our live episodes moving forward.

44
00:01:44,660 --> 00:01:45,459
So congrats.

45
00:01:45,580 --> 00:01:47,419
Excited to have a chance to chat with you all.

46
00:01:48,550 --> 00:01:48,790
All right,

47
00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:51,529
so back to Sarah's question from California.

48
00:01:51,989 --> 00:01:54,089
She's wondering how to answer this for a dad.

49
00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:55,319
So here's the scenario.

50
00:01:55,550 --> 00:01:58,019
She sent him the cookies choices and kids video.

51
00:01:58,790 --> 00:01:59,580
And his response,

52
00:01:59,699 --> 00:02:00,099
oh by the way,

53
00:02:00,220 --> 00:02:01,769
for those of you that may not be familiar with that,

54
00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:05,300
that is Landreth's video where he spoke at a church

55
00:02:05,620 --> 00:02:07,459
and was explaining the

56
00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:08,520
choice

57
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:09,889
giving process,

58
00:02:10,339 --> 00:02:11,960
so his choice theory

59
00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:14,500
and all of the scenarios with his own children

60
00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:17,889
and the rationale behind providing choices to children.

61
00:02:18,179 --> 00:02:20,449
So send him the cookies choices and kids video.

62
00:02:21,220 --> 00:02:24,330
And dad sounded that to him it sounded like bribery.

63
00:02:25,559 --> 00:02:27,710
How do you explain that they're different is the question.

64
00:02:28,770 --> 00:02:32,309
This is not the first time that the word bribery has come up regarding choice giving,

65
00:02:32,399 --> 00:02:34,759
so some of you might be shocked by that,

66
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,070
but interestingly,

67
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,350
I've had this conversation multiple times.

68
00:02:39,460 --> 00:02:41,919
It's interesting the way that that can be

69
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,889
interpreted because I think it misses the entire point

70
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:46,919
of choice giving.

71
00:02:48,210 --> 00:02:50,029
The whole premise of choice giving

72
00:02:50,279 --> 00:02:50,990
is

73
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:52,910
you are

74
00:02:53,559 --> 00:02:55,520
agreeable to both choices.

75
00:02:56,669 --> 00:02:58,929
And you know that it's something that the child would be too.

76
00:03:01,050 --> 00:03:02,800
There's absolutely no bribery

77
00:03:03,009 --> 00:03:05,449
in saying my child would be OK with either one of these,

78
00:03:05,649 --> 00:03:07,279
I'm OK with either one of these.

79
00:03:07,729 --> 00:03:08,960
I'm going to provide a choice.

80
00:03:10,389 --> 00:03:12,779
Now that would be for empowerment choices.

81
00:03:13,229 --> 00:03:18,710
So my child can choose to put on sneakers or my child can choose to put on sandals.

82
00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:20,100
I'm OK with either.

83
00:03:20,309 --> 00:03:22,289
The child likes both of those shoes.

84
00:03:22,660 --> 00:03:24,139
There's no bribery whatsoever.

85
00:03:24,429 --> 00:03:24,669
Sarah,

86
00:03:24,710 --> 00:03:28,750
I suspect maybe it was the enforcement choices that

87
00:03:28,750 --> 00:03:31,699
he was alluding to about feeling like it's bribery,

88
00:03:31,990 --> 00:03:32,699
and in that case,

89
00:03:32,910 --> 00:03:35,500
it's because there's a limit that's been set.

90
00:03:35,869 --> 00:03:37,309
But even in that scenario.

91
00:03:38,389 --> 00:03:39,500
What we're doing

92
00:03:39,789 --> 00:03:42,089
is we're setting up parameters and boundaries.

93
00:03:43,660 --> 00:03:45,490
Then we're giving children freedom

94
00:03:45,860 --> 00:03:48,009
and power and control

95
00:03:48,619 --> 00:03:49,889
over the circumstance.

96
00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:52,050
No child wants to be told what to do.

97
00:03:53,139 --> 00:03:57,149
And I think maybe if we would juxtapose the alternative.

98
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,740
It wouldn't probably feel like bribery anymore because the alternative is.

99
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:03,570
Do that now.

100
00:04:06,270 --> 00:04:07,509
No kid wants to be told that.

101
00:04:07,669 --> 00:04:08,949
No kid wants to hear that.

102
00:04:09,839 --> 00:04:10,750
Do it now.

103
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:11,910
I said so.

104
00:04:12,199 --> 00:04:13,270
Don't ask questions.

105
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,339
If you don't do it,

106
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:15,279
I'm going to.

107
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,390
Parents threaten.

108
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:18,390
They yell.

109
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:19,548
They're angry.

110
00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:21,309
They're dictatorial.

111
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,029
They're insistent.

112
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:24,630
They have all the power.

113
00:04:25,709 --> 00:04:28,260
So let's contrast that with

114
00:04:28,549 --> 00:04:30,459
the CCPT choice giving approach.

115
00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:31,589
First of all,

116
00:04:31,630 --> 00:04:33,019
the child feels validated

117
00:04:33,269 --> 00:04:34,630
and heard and understood.

118
00:04:35,869 --> 00:04:37,670
You really don't want to get ready for bed.

119
00:04:38,559 --> 00:04:40,959
You really wish that you could keep playing with your friends.

120
00:04:42,149 --> 00:04:43,880
You're upset that it's time to go.

121
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,100
We're helping the child feel understood.

122
00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:47,299
Look,

123
00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:49,380
you're not wrong for any of these feelings,

124
00:04:49,540 --> 00:04:49,779
needs,

125
00:04:49,859 --> 00:04:50,299
desires,

126
00:04:50,380 --> 00:04:50,890
wishes.

127
00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:53,049
They are what they are,

128
00:04:53,179 --> 00:04:54,670
unconditional acceptance,

129
00:04:54,820 --> 00:04:56,299
meeting the child where they are.

130
00:04:57,179 --> 00:04:59,260
None of that aligns with bribery whatsoever,

131
00:04:59,339 --> 00:05:02,769
but we'll get to the true heart of where I think bribery is coming in in a second.

132
00:05:03,019 --> 00:05:05,170
So we're going to validate where the child is,

133
00:05:05,619 --> 00:05:07,260
and then we're going to set a neutral limit.

134
00:05:09,429 --> 00:05:10,369
It's time to go.

135
00:05:11,410 --> 00:05:12,510
But it's dinner time,

136
00:05:12,820 --> 00:05:13,619
but it's bedtime.

137
00:05:15,140 --> 00:05:15,820
Whatever.

138
00:05:16,149 --> 00:05:17,700
It's a neutral expectation.

139
00:05:19,149 --> 00:05:21,859
Kids have to learn how to operate within boundaries.

140
00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:23,790
That's life skill development.

141
00:05:24,940 --> 00:05:27,359
People that don't learn to operate within boundaries can't

142
00:05:27,359 --> 00:05:28,820
keep a job and end up in jail.

143
00:05:30,329 --> 00:05:34,670
This is setting your child up to be able to comply with expectations.

144
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,309
Then you provide alternatives to meet the original need.

145
00:05:41,059 --> 00:05:42,489
If the kid wants to stay up.

146
00:05:43,429 --> 00:05:45,739
You can choose to stay up for 5 more minutes or

147
00:05:45,739 --> 00:05:47,260
you can choose to stay up for 10 more minutes,

148
00:05:47,299 --> 00:05:48,100
which you choose.

149
00:05:49,109 --> 00:05:51,600
You can choose to play with your friends tomorrow morning or

150
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,679
you can choose to play with your friends tomorrow afternoon.

151
00:05:53,799 --> 00:05:54,630
Which do you choose?

152
00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:57,459
If they want to stay up,

153
00:05:57,679 --> 00:05:59,230
they can stay up 5 or 10 minutes.

154
00:05:59,350 --> 00:06:00,720
If they want to see their friends again,

155
00:06:00,799 --> 00:06:02,920
it can be tomorrow morning or tomorrow afternoon.

156
00:06:05,149 --> 00:06:08,660
If they wish that they could stay at Grandma and Grandpa's house,

157
00:06:09,070 --> 00:06:10,339
even though it's time to go.

158
00:06:11,109 --> 00:06:13,390
You can choose to come see Grandma and Grandpa this weekend,

159
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,549
or you can choose for them to come to our house this weekend.

160
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,359
Which do you choose?

161
00:06:17,730 --> 00:06:19,489
You're OK with either option.

162
00:06:21,070 --> 00:06:22,510
Child then gets to choose,

163
00:06:22,529 --> 00:06:24,529
and here's the deeper piece of this.

164
00:06:24,910 --> 00:06:26,140
When a child makes a choice,

165
00:06:26,230 --> 00:06:27,350
there's automatic buy in.

166
00:06:28,329 --> 00:06:30,799
There's automatic ownership of the outcome.

167
00:06:31,089 --> 00:06:32,480
If child chooses

168
00:06:33,049 --> 00:06:34,850
to see friends first thing in the morning.

169
00:06:35,980 --> 00:06:39,000
They are OK with that because it's meeting their need

170
00:06:39,130 --> 00:06:40,089
and then when they wake up,

171
00:06:40,170 --> 00:06:41,839
what do you think the first thing they're gonna say is,

172
00:06:42,690 --> 00:06:43,970
I'm gonna go see my friends.

173
00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:44,399
Why?

174
00:06:44,619 --> 00:06:45,720
Because they chose.

175
00:06:46,019 --> 00:06:46,970
They're gonna remember that,

176
00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:47,500
they know,

177
00:06:47,609 --> 00:06:48,809
they have control over it.

178
00:06:50,899 --> 00:06:55,380
So bribery and negotiation has no place in

179
00:06:56,019 --> 00:06:58,440
The choice giving related to limit setting

180
00:06:58,730 --> 00:06:59,130
none.

181
00:07:00,850 --> 00:07:02,079
If we bribe,

182
00:07:02,970 --> 00:07:04,760
let's let's talk about a bribe real fast,

183
00:07:04,850 --> 00:07:06,929
which I don't like to do because it flies in the face

184
00:07:06,929 --> 00:07:09,970
of CCPT but you'll understand why as we get further into this.

185
00:07:11,190 --> 00:07:13,579
A bribe is if you do this,

186
00:07:13,829 --> 00:07:15,220
then I'll give you this.

187
00:07:16,049 --> 00:07:17,359
If you don't do this,

188
00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:19,079
then this is going to happen,

189
00:07:19,170 --> 00:07:20,440
but if you do this,

190
00:07:21,010 --> 00:07:24,450
so it's always positive skewed.

191
00:07:25,230 --> 00:07:26,230
In other words,

192
00:07:26,510 --> 00:07:28,309
it's not really about the thing you don't want,

193
00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:29,910
it's about the thing you do want.

194
00:07:30,309 --> 00:07:30,820
So,

195
00:07:31,109 --> 00:07:32,220
if you do this,

196
00:07:32,309 --> 00:07:33,739
then I'll give you this.

197
00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:36,309
That's a bribe.

198
00:07:37,660 --> 00:07:41,910
And the intention is I want you to make that choice.

199
00:07:42,470 --> 00:07:44,299
I want you to get in the car,

200
00:07:44,510 --> 00:07:46,579
so I'll get you ice cream on the way home.

201
00:07:48,989 --> 00:07:50,140
That's not a choice.

202
00:07:51,510 --> 00:07:54,940
That's manipulative because you're getting what you want,

203
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:56,739
which is the kid gets in the car.

204
00:07:58,140 --> 00:08:00,440
And then I'll bribe you to do it

205
00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:02,559
by giving you something that you want.

206
00:08:03,089 --> 00:08:04,619
You wanna know that what that creates?

207
00:08:06,070 --> 00:08:08,299
That creates a need to always get your way.

208
00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:12,519
And then a child chooses to do nothing unless there's something in it for them.

209
00:08:13,309 --> 00:08:15,079
It's no longer about respect,

210
00:08:15,119 --> 00:08:16,529
it's no longer about obedience,

211
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,109
it's no longer about compliance.

212
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,630
It's no longer about self-regulation or control.

213
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,290
It's I'm not doing anything unless you make it worth my while.

214
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:25,250
So up the ante.

215
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,670
What are you gonna give me this time?

216
00:08:27,739 --> 00:08:30,410
That creates a power and control struggle all day long.

217
00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:33,340
So when we bribe,

218
00:08:33,390 --> 00:08:35,340
and I mean we see this at the center all the time,

219
00:08:36,030 --> 00:08:37,190
if you go to therapy,

220
00:08:37,390 --> 00:08:39,419
I'll get you a video game on the way home.

221
00:08:40,328 --> 00:08:41,999
If you go back to the playroom,

222
00:08:42,087 --> 00:08:44,968
we'll stop at McDonald's before we get back to the house.

223
00:08:45,249 --> 00:08:45,809
But wa,

224
00:08:45,888 --> 00:08:46,008
whoa,

225
00:08:46,129 --> 00:08:46,369
whoa.

226
00:08:47,849 --> 00:08:49,369
Child gets to choose.

227
00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:52,219
We're not going to contrive scenarios.

228
00:08:52,969 --> 00:08:54,320
To make something

229
00:08:54,729 --> 00:08:55,280
more.

230
00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:57,590
Enjoyable for the child.

231
00:08:58,619 --> 00:08:59,210
You do this,

232
00:08:59,270 --> 00:09:00,260
I'll do this.

233
00:09:00,789 --> 00:09:02,859
That is not at all what a choice is.

234
00:09:03,109 --> 00:09:04,429
It's not at all what Cookies,

235
00:09:04,510 --> 00:09:05,880
choices and kids is about.

236
00:09:06,929 --> 00:09:07,460
So,

237
00:09:07,469 --> 00:09:09,780
I think it's about helping this dad,

238
00:09:09,830 --> 00:09:10,150
Sarah,

239
00:09:10,580 --> 00:09:11,179
understand

240
00:09:11,390 --> 00:09:14,809
the deeper context of what the outcomes are,

241
00:09:15,309 --> 00:09:17,979
why we provide choices in this way,

242
00:09:18,390 --> 00:09:20,099
and what it does for the child.

243
00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:23,169
And it's about wording too,

244
00:09:23,479 --> 00:09:24,419
because let's be very clear,

245
00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:25,669
it is not the same.

246
00:09:26,219 --> 00:09:26,409
We,

247
00:09:26,419 --> 00:09:28,409
we could say that we're giving a choice,

248
00:09:28,619 --> 00:09:29,479
but if it's,

249
00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:30,739
if you do that,

250
00:09:30,859 --> 00:09:32,130
I'll take you to get ice cream.

251
00:09:33,330 --> 00:09:34,640
That is not a choice.

252
00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:36,469
That's a bribe.

253
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:39,590
Choices are,

254
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:40,869
if you choose to go back,

255
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,159
you choose to get ice cream.

256
00:09:42,239 --> 00:09:43,400
If you choose not to go back,

257
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:44,799
you choose not to get ice cream,

258
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:45,710
which do you choose?

259
00:09:47,570 --> 00:09:48,190
And

260
00:09:48,380 --> 00:09:49,799
we would always choose

261
00:09:50,090 --> 00:09:52,119
for kids to have the things that they want.

262
00:09:53,159 --> 00:09:56,000
We would always choose for kids to comply.

263
00:09:56,450 --> 00:09:59,929
We would always choose for kids to have the positive outcome.

264
00:10:01,010 --> 00:10:01,809
Always

265
00:10:03,169 --> 00:10:04,700
But sometimes kids choose

266
00:10:04,890 --> 00:10:05,580
otherwise.

267
00:10:06,729 --> 00:10:10,030
And they have to own and accept the consequence of that choice.

268
00:10:12,190 --> 00:10:13,789
There's no bribery involved in that.

269
00:10:13,869 --> 00:10:14,309
So Sarah,

270
00:10:14,429 --> 00:10:18,080
I hope that that equips you to have that discussion with this dad,

271
00:10:18,469 --> 00:10:22,140
maybe equips all of us to really help parents understand

272
00:10:22,469 --> 00:10:24,059
what is at the heart of this,

273
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,099
because it's easy to misinterpret this from the outside looking in,

274
00:10:28,510 --> 00:10:32,739
but we deeply understand the value of this and what it does for children,

275
00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:34,659
and sometimes that needs to be stressed

276
00:10:34,950 --> 00:10:37,070
if they're misinterpreting the whole premise.

277
00:10:37,630 --> 00:10:37,650
All right.

278
00:10:38,580 --> 00:10:40,059
Thank you so much for the email,

279
00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:40,380
Sarah.

280
00:10:40,419 --> 00:10:41,500
I hope that was helpful.

281
00:10:41,780 --> 00:10:43,849
Shoot me an email if you'd like to reach out,

282
00:10:43,940 --> 00:10:45,609
brenna at the kid counselor.com.

283
00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:46,179
I love you all.

284
00:10:46,219 --> 00:10:47,039
We'll talk again soon.

285
00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:47,460
Bye.

286
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,400
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

287
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:52,479
Brenna Hicks.

288
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,599
For more episodes and resources,

289
00:10:54,719 --> 00:10:59,479
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.