#331 - Craig Wiseman on His 29 No. 1’s As a Songwriter + Seeing Garth Brooks at a Writer’s Round in the 80’s + His Relationship with Tim McGraw + Writing Songs for Kenny Chesney, Tim McGraw, Blake Shelton and more!

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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to episode three hundred and thirty one of the Bobby Cast. My name is Mike d I'm the producer of the show and a bit of a different episode for you guys today. Eddie is actually hopping in to do this interview. You may know him from the Bobby Bones Show. You may know him from the Story Loser's podcast. He's hopping in and talking into songwriter Craig Wiseman, who was a big songwriter here in Nashville, actually has twenty nine number one. He landed his first number one back in he wrote It's a Good Die Young by Tracy Lawrence, Good Die Die. He also wrote songs like Where the Green Grass Grows for Tim McGraw, where the Green Grass Lived, Like You Were Dying for Tim mcgrawl seven Seconds. Also wrote a bunch of stuff for Kenny Chesney, like the good Stuff, Yeah Man, that's the good stuff, songs like She's Got It All. Wrote some big songs for Blake Shelton like Boys Around Here, the Fall round Here, dragging that up, cool Bear talking about and not only that, he's still writing songs, some of his most recent ones where I Was Jack for Jake Owen, Every time here that's chasing you for Morgan wallin Sad and his most recent one here and now for Kenny Chesney now, so we'll get into all of that, also talk about his management company that he has here in Nashville. So here it is episode three and thirty one of the Bobby Casts with Craig Wiseman and Eddie stepping in to do this interview. Craig, I'm so glad you're here. I'm glad I get to talk to you. I want to start just from the beginning. Man. You're from Mississippi, from Hattysburg. Yeah, what was it like growing up? What were you listening to? What kind of music were you into? And you know, I really I look back now and really appreciate it because Hattiesburg is uh about sixty miles up from the coast, about a hundred miles from If you go to New Orleans from here, you fifty nine you go through Hattiesburg on the way to New Orleans. So I could get all those radio stations and then the coast, and so I mean I listened to everything. And we have one of those classic you ever hear this? H You ever hear Rex Bob Blowenstein one of those songs. Um, we have one of those classic A M stations to w f O R that would play Frank Sinatra and then George Jones and then and then you know, it was one of those they played everything before all that stuff, before formats and exactly they would just play play whatever. So I mean I listened to everything and liked everything. You know, my mom even my mom was like, man, you know your Disney storybook albums when you were a kid. I it does on for your naptime and stuff, and so you know, just music was just so when did you decide you were going to be a songwriter. Was it just something that you knew that you were good at or were you a poet? Would you know? I'm not loved it. I saw I I was playing drums. I started playing drums and in bars and stuff, and all this happened when I was playing I wanted to play drums because like in seventh grade, the high school jazz man, you know, I was like, oh, I want to play drums. Setting that and then out of that, um, so jam one were your buddies, right, but drums are allowed, so you invariably there'll be the time when the drums have to shut down. Somebody just have a guitar. So my buddies taught me some chords, and I still say that one of the best songs to ever learn and to learn guitar is Freebird because it has like every every chord and it really was like a minor A, a minor F C G. It's just the whole thing and um somewhere on the line. So I know what happened. I think there was an RSP Wagon or something song. There was a song that I learned just three chords, you know, stupid rocks on them that I wrote my own lyrics to change the lyrics too. But I only did it that one time. It was already a song, but you changed the lyrics, which I hear from reading about other songs. I hear there are a lot of guys that you did that for a lot. That was kind of their template to start with. I did it one time, But you know what happened, man, I was a church camp kid, right, and I'm a horrible guitar player. It doesn't matter. I mean I couldn't see horrible, man. I mean learned friends of mine when I playing guitar, they're just like just stop. It's like, yeah, it's like watching their grandfather dry. They're like, oh, man, man, don't, don't, don't. But man, I went to church camp, right, and I had my course because I was gonna do be so I could walk some girls home, you know, and kissing and stuff here. Yeah exactly, but here's what I figured out, man. So right, So you're trying to learn how to because think about it. Think about learning music back then, especially like so you have like Stairway to Heaven. There's one of the best guitar players on planet Earth, and you were one of the worst guitar players on planet are trying to imitate him? Exactly, I mean think about that, you know. So so nonetheless, I was going but I went to church camp, and you figure out just singing church camp songs, you know, amazing grace from Michael Rutherboto Shore or whatever. You You've figured out like, well, not just g every kind the people's key of G not, you know, not too not too low for the girls, I do high for the guys. And I figured out from that it's like, oh, man, you don't know, all these songs are just the same three or four chords, like you could just play over and over, and I realized, Like I went home and told my brother that. I was like, you buy all these church camp songs. And then so he was a huge country not so you know, I saw he so he hit a g and he started singing, and I was like, you can play all these country songs. And I realized I think I played the joker Steve Miller. So people come even spical and I was like, and I was like, oh my god, all these songs, all of these songs, okay, And what it is I learned. I learned this amazing thing called transposing, which means changing the key. So instead of me trying to so ill equipped and horrible trying to come to the music, I brought the music to me. And from that, I mean from that, that's when I started writing the songs. Like I said, so I wrote that one song and then just started. I would stay up that one summer I was fifteen, I would stay up until sunrise writing horrible, horrible songs, like writing five or six a night, just with my chords and just by my little desktop recorder and just uh and there was no like, well, I'm gonna be a big summary areathing? I just loved, loved, and I always kind of was not you know, the Phil Collins and Don Hendley's are the Eagles and stuff like that just sort of come out of the drummer too. So, but just the songwriters, you kind of realized, like regroup, there's a songwriter and there's a guy who's really kind of writing it, and just love that. Just loved and I still do. So did you find out that there was actually a way to make money writing songs? And how did you move? And to move to Nashville? So I was in a band. I was in a roadband that it was getting me pretty popular, and we had a there was a there was a guy that financed or some and me and the me and the lead singer from this band. He wanted to get us under contract. You guys were that good? Well, well, well, you know, pay for the PA and stuff like that. I mean, this this is all this is all just you know, basic stuff. Um, but the lead singer he wanted, he wanted you know, the band Alabama had broken that kind of went through everything like almost look at this because Alabama was huge. He saw eighty million records. I mean, you know, it's serious. So bands all of a sudden, we're getting some focus and he wanted to give me a contract, and and he gave me a contract because I was writing some stuff for the band. And thank god, my mom was attending Peabody at the time from Hattiesburg. She would come up. She was always an academia working on her PhD and like education administration whatever. And I actually had we had two weekend gigs, so I had the week open and I was like, I want to ride with you to Nashville. And she went to Peabody, which is right there off of eight teens and I literally walked to Music Grow from there. What was it like then? But I mean it was not not a bunch of high rises like it is now. No, No, it was all just houses and it was all I mean, that's just it. Everybody says, everybody's trying to save me the Grow. It was like man back then, because there was nothing but little houses with people, and you know, that's that's just people up in ATTLEX writing songs. It was all. It was the old christ Ker Starfferson days that really you could come to town the Christmer Starffers and then you come to town sweet Florigna studio, do that thing. Uh, finally get offered the deal, go down the street to your lawyer who got you a deal, who took you down further down the street to get your manager, who took you further down the street to the record label who got you that. And then you started making money and somewhere on the street you bought a house and that what your publishing company. And all of that happens just right there in this little two mile little race track, you know, and it still does. That's why I'm there. I mean when I bought my first building on Music Ground, I was here. I was tearful. It was We'll get there, because that's pretty cool that it comes to full circle like that. You So, mom was at Peabody and what did you do? You you went on over to Music Road. I took my contract and you know what it is, um Ken Levitan, who's a manager. Now he was a lawyer. Then I remember walking saw the signs Levitan music attorney. I was like, that's what I need. Ignorant does not begin to describe. And I literally walked in and I'll go to the girl and I'm like, I think somebody look at this contract. She was like, I'm sorry, you have to get in. I was like, no, I just kind of just pased my twenty dollars. Look at this contract because I don't even know what's going on. And one of and one of kids let it kind of I think it was Mike. You know, there's a lawyer over there with the jacket all just his Oxford white shirt, you know, sleeves rolled up like at the copy machine. And finally he just goes, MA, I got this guy, come here, come here. So I fallen back to an office. You know, yeah, you don't even sit out. He just like, what who are you? What's calling but a band contract? And just like you look at it there and he was just like, you're not even getting a draw. And I'm like, what's the draw? What are you talking about? He said, He goes, this guy's getting all your publishing, and I was like, what's publishing? I mean, just seriously, And finally he just throws it on the desk and can tell you what, I'll give you twenty bucks not to sign that. And I was like, oh, and he goes, man, if you write songs, he goes, just come to town. He goes, we'll shopping around we'll get you a deal. And I was like, uh, I thought he was I thought he meant like record deal. I was. I was like, no, got a publishing company. You could just be a songwriter. And I was like, wait, I could just be a soungwater. He goes, yeah, man, he just started rattling off like at the time he said, like you know Russell. He goes people that were in bads like Russell Smith. He was the amazing room made. Now he's a summer and just listen to all these people. I was like, I could just come right songs. He was like yeah, and I was like whoa. So I went back to my band. I thought. I was like, whatever, our last gig, we have book, whatever, it's three months out from now, Like that's it. Um give you that much time to find another drummer. I'm I'm moving to Nashville. I'm gonna go be a songwriter. Now did you did you move and crush it right away? God? No? No? It was eighty five No, No, I mean I got here and uh so I was still a musician. I played six nights a week. So I went to Trinity Lane, which you know it was but it was it was the place where the musicians hung out, a place called Real Country R. E. E. L. Right here at sixty five Frenny Lane, and and yeah, and and basically the BANDA played and in the last set, whoever was hanging out they could get up and play, just to sort of it was, We're just like, okay, all you all you, all you street people, go ahead and go up there. And and did that for a a couple of weeks, and finally one guy was like, correct, man, there's there's a band up Madison man looking for a drummer. I told me, you're a nice guy, you want to go. So I went up there. And so I went from being a Mississippi making six seven hundred bucks a week playing maybe five nights a week. In some places it was like you had to close at midnight, so you played from eight to eleven thirty. I got here and got my first gig. Seven nights a week, six hours a night, twenty five dollars a night. I mean, that's that's just illegal, dude, dude. Yeah, I went home and do the math. Me. I was like, I'm doing more than forty hours a week playing drums, So yeah, man, so yeah, So I wasn't, but it's really good because I was trying to write songs. If I was trying to do something on me the grow, I would just stay up because I would get home at three or four o'clock in the morning. And he had not to mention it was a five dollar trip and gas up there and back and so um. And after six months and somebody else came and hired in Hendersonville place called the Eleventh Frame, but it was six nights a week at thirty five dollars a night. And so I finally had a night off to go to one of these songwriter bars. And even then the Bluebird was was kind of the Bluebirds, So Douglas Corner was the place. So I went to my first night in Douglas Corner, my first night off after six months. I mean Dougla's Corner. Never get merv. He was just like somebody said minutes craiging New time everything. He had me a rolling Rock beer and I still love rolling Rocks, and was like, man, you know this is cool. It's different, foreign, just fancy. But there was a guy walking around in a hoodie with a cowboy hat, and I was like, oh man, you've already got your head covering. Why don't you need the cowboy like that seems a bit overkilled. So um So he's walking around there and then these guys get up on stage and he just go, man, I just want to thank you guys. As you guys know, I got my record deal on everything at Capital and everything. But to help him milk Crazy's like, men, you gotta put your concessant. You know. I always listening for songs and everything. It was Garth Brooks, and beside him said, in fact, this was the big big I've told the story before. Beside him sat a little guy, and so Garth and these are two other guys got out there to kind of do the nine thirties slaughter whatever it is. And Garth sings and somebody else and I gets this guy beside him, and this guy was just he's one of those guys. As soon as he started playing, you were just sort of in his room with him. It's just that enchanting, just this wow man, this guy just I walked slow up trying to make it and I mean still I was just like wow, like not stuff on the radio, just stuff, just the best music I ever heard in my life. Just this guy's solo and it was like, oh my god. And finally he was a bearing garth and then finally he gets up there and he's his turn again. Looking at him back on the memory, Uh dude, he sung the dance and guards for sounding like about mad. Somebody gonna cut that song. And I'm sitting back so mean while I'm in the back of Douglas Corner and I am just mesmerizing, and I looked at my buddy and I was like, who is that guy? That's a Tony Rotta. I was like, oh God, where's he right? The guy goes, I don't have a deal, man. I think it works like some printing company or something. And I'm like, and seriously, I was like, that guy didn't have a deal. What in the hell am I? And seriously, that night it was probably the only time ever drove home that night just going what am I doing? Man? I could pack my crap up, leave it daylight and be home in time for lunch and really was We're just like but at the same time it was so inspiring. It was just this wow, man, there's something. Somebody just sat down with a peple with a notebook and a guitar and wrote that holy crap. Yeah, there's something to be said about being in a town where there's so much talent. There's it's but it's also liked inspiring. It's absolutely its absolutely, it truly is that there is that there is that there is that conflicting, there is that that that thing of just that holy crap, man, you know, it's really I mean, as I like to as I tell people now, that whole thing. I mean, you know when people like, oh, I have to move to Nashville, I have to just just I mean it's kind of like this, Like you've been playing pickup basketball or your brother in your backyard with your hoop against the Barns. You need to go to Chicago and play against Michael Jordan's because he's gonna kill you. I mean he's gonna kill you for a long time. But at some point you're gonna be able to play against Michael Jordan's And that's what we're going for. But that that that that that boot camp time of you being broken down and rebuilding and remaking yourself is um, that's not for the fan hardest man. So how many how many failures came before your big break the first big break. I don't think failures. I mean, I don't know, I'll just done my I don't even you don't even don't even see that trip. They probably don't even don't even think about it in terms of failures. What what what? It's just sorry, um that man, you know. But by the end, I was just writing all that time about you know. It was like year three and uh, you know, funny thing is that barn Hendersonville. I think Roy Overson was one of the investors in it or whatever, and his son Wesley would come to that bar. We got to be friends. Why she's a very very nice guy. And here's this I meant, and he and I would write some songs. Sometimes he was like in your day, like ser stuff. Man wasn't try stuff for his album. I've been here about three years at that point, long and long enough to be cynical. I was just like, that's not it's never gonna happen. It's just like it's never like no, but up there we wrote some songs and everything, and then the next thing you know, he's like, hey, they come to the car. I mean, you guys gonna I'm gonna play some day And he had cut basically Roy cut his son's song. But I happen to be a co writer on it, and you know, so so wow, and that was a good lesson to the so Paula takes there. There's some you know, it takes all of that, all that, you know, luck meets preparation meet saw that meets desperation and all that stuff. So but you know, the weird thing was that happened. But I realized now everybody else in the industry saw it what soft for what it was. It was a Wesley song. It wasn't mine, and he was on version and it wasn't so it wasn't in Nashville. That didn't show up on the Nashville radar at all. You know, So well, here we are twenty nine number ones. Um. Do you listen to the radio and sometimes kind of hear a song and forget that you wrote it. You're like, oh, crap, oh, I did write that. Not not when I'm listening to the radio, because that's more intentional, but I will be walking through you know, a Walmart or something like that, and all of a sudden, sometimes my wife is just like she'll just I'll probably walking and she'll just tap my arm and I'm just like, what I didn't, what I didn't I wouldn't live with that girl, you know, and then realized like, oh oh, yeah, yeah, I wrote that one. Yeah yeah. And that that's what freaks me out, the fact that because I how I do, I always kind of feel like the impostor a little bit. And the fact that that's what really gets me. And I do remember when stuff of mine would come on the radio and it would be those that five beasts before I knew, and I realized, like, my stuff just fit right in with that other stuff almost seamlessly, and like that's like that can't be right. I mean, come on, I mean, how could my stuff be right in right in there with that with that stuff? I mean, it is still a little it's a little wow man, you know. I think there's a little bit of a yeah, like I said, a little little bit of the imposter thing or something. I don't know, what's the biggest challenge even now because you're still writing, I mean, what what's the biggest challenge now? Um? With you look at bands like the Rolling Stones and and you know, bands that just lasted a lot a lot of years because they changed their music. Aerosmith, they changed their music with the time, so they got to last for a long time. Is that the same with you? Very much? So man trying to because it went from when I was when I've really started doing it. You know, nobody I was a guy that was It was weird for me because I was a guy that wrote tempo. It was really weird. So I was a guy. I became the tempo guy in town. People kind of who had no business cutting my stuff. What does that mean? The tempo everything I wrote? That was another great thing from Baboober or what I learned because I want to I'm a drummer in the band, right, so this is how you eat. Your band has to be smart if you want to eat, So you play the stuff people want to hear. You play the stuff that they respond to, they react to. There you go. And then every band I've ever been in, it was never like, oh, we're a countryman or whatever. I know, we're a cover band. We were a band. We were a juke box. We were five or four piece of jukebox. And we're gonna play everything from Steve Miller to George Jones to George straight to to to the New George Michael. You know everything, if you want to if you want to survive, you do that. M So, yeah, I got a bluebird. And think about it. Now, this is the mid eighties, and I mean, and there'd be these living legend songwriters, but they go around four times, everybody playing a ballad, and I was like, I was like, you know, some cerebral level, this is amazing, but man, you guys would starved to death at the bend. So I really I mete up my mind, like, I don't ever want to play a ballad in the in the round ever. So I just wrote up tempo stuff and it served me well because the next thing, you know, my buddies back then, Dave Gibson and Russell Smith and these these famous guys, they would invite me on the round because I was always gonna be a tempo thing, and it ended up just you know, the the So the tempo things served me well, and so I just wrote tempo man. I mean, you know, and at the time especially, that was very, very different. You know. I was kind of rock influenced. I was. I was that guy who listened to everything, um, and so it was really sort of stuff. So I was but that that that's where I was kind of a new thing, and then I really started hitting and then and then other writers kind of started imitating that, and the next thing. Then here comes these new kids, and now, yeah, I'm really really pushing to stay relevant and do that and try to write with these track guys and stuff and and give them room. It's been good too cause that because it's a I like the humility of that, because I know a lot of my peers, a lot of these guys that just get and I just kind of get bitter, and it's just like, man, you know, the kids are doing the same same thing we were doing twenty years ago. They're just hustling, man, They're just They're just there is no there is no it is what it is. There is no right, wrong, good, bad, or anything else that it is what it is. And there you go. In in nineties seven, you had a few hits with Tim McGraw. How did you meet him? Man? You know, it was funny. I love that. Um So I was just starting to break as a writer pretty good. And I actually ran to an expert, to his producer, Byron Gallimore, in the parking lot of the Old Jamaica and I was walking down and he was walking out, and he goes, hey, man, hey man, uh yeh, Kim, he likes some of your stuff. Man, look you picture something. He really wants some different lyrics. And so think about that as opposed to man, we needed an up tempo, we needed you know, we need to sign about my different lyric that's all he said. He just wants some. He said, he likes your lyrics. He wants some. He wants some different lyrics. And I saw. I went to the project company and I was like, so, without any regard for ballad, tempo, whatever, polka, speed metal, just whatever, just had quirky lyrics in it. I put together just set of four of six songs and all of them were just weird lyrics and they were all over the place, and Tim cut four um uh. Three of those ended up making the record. And then for that same record, he liked this so me and Mike where he got together and wrote everywhere Yeah there too, so but yeah, but that was it. I really I always appreciate a buyro and not trying to describe, you know, the counege, because we all know the pitch. She is. Always just like they try to just kind of describe you thing. It's like trying to describe colors, you know, And he was just like querk hilarious. Man. I was like, well, I got quirky larrics. Okay, you can do that, and I got I got some quirky lyrics, so yeah, yeah, yeah, so but but you know, Tim's one of those guys, doll. I always like to say, you cause people think that I'm just like, I don't know, crashing on you know, the couches of the Blakes and the Tims and the candies and stuff, and it's like it's like and it's like, man, I was like, that's like to tell people people like you hang out with him. I was like, I hang out with Tim on stages at Number one parties and we're both completely happy with that. I was like, that's kind of and I do have a personal relationship more of a personal relations but it is just like that. It's just like there's some people, you know, and you're really buddies with other people not so much, and you know, and I'm you know, and he's great and I could call him right now ask him. He's done my charity show and stuff. He's great and we're friends, but we just haven't been that, you know, just that Well, that's what we do as fans, you know, we picture all these things and this is how we think it goes. Like, for example, Tim McGraw, Uh, live like you were dying. You know, Um, there's a key change, the big key change at the end that kind of totally different. I pictured it where you guys wrote it without the key change, and Tim McGraw saying we need something different here. Is that how it went down? Or don't you write it that way? Not at all? Not at all again, dude, you're just you're just in the high weeds failures and illusions, delusions, that's no, you know, Okay, so what you were dying? That thing happened so fast. Me and Tim Knichols wrote that, Uh wrote the second verse at midnight, lame my jet black living room on the phone at midnight, finished the second verse with the next day and literally got in the and there was no intro. We just had the song itself. And I was in the vocal booth with guitar and I was like, I don't want an intro. I just kind of wanna I started doing that climb thing. You understand when you're in there with musicians. They're all in these different rooms, right, so everybody has the chart in front of them, so it's not like everybody's just right here, you know, sparking off each other. I was like, I just kind of want this thing. I was like, and then and I was, then, then we'll just start the chart and I'll just start because I started. It's a downbeat, I said. I was, then just start right there. And Tony Harrow was playing keys and everything and saw and so they just started doing this climb and they did it once and then they did it over again and that was none of that. And it was like, and we were all I just looked at each other, play him, I got said, I was in my and it just happened. And and I've never done it before and never done it since. But I was like, this song is a modulation, yeah, and that's the key change that that that's the key change before. Never done it again. It was cheesy. That's cheesy crab because I came from the seventies and I was just like, you know, this cheesy crap man rocking down the only moderation we've ever done. I've never done one before or since, but it just sort of was like this song needs and it really moderation is for me is it was always this thing we're supposed to sort, we're supposed to be and when they when they did it, when it works, it's amazing, and when if you overdo it, it's amazing, it's immediately just like come on, yeah. Well on the same song to you know, you have the bull named Fu Manchu and and I mean, was that a real bull or how did the name man? We were in the middle of the I kind of knew we were in the middle of the course. It was like kinda rocking buck clowning, so it was already pretty you know, hallmarky, and then we I kind of knew the bolting, you know, a love sweeter spoke deeper, so it's like this is all sacring stuff. I was like, man, we need need a little palate cleans where we need something that kind of makes you smile. That's not we don't need to go for depth here in the middle. We just need a need a random line. We need a little little thing because we're about to go right back into all these lifelines and stuff. And I was like, man, you know, we say something crazy about like you know, like a you know, like a cowboy rodeo, you know those horses they rather I was like, no, I was like bull, the bulls have got crazy names. I was like, we need a bull. I was like, and we need a crazy name for a bull. And literally we were just like Foo Manchu or whatever. And then here's what I didn't realize. So I saw Missy Gallimore Byron's who went on to become his wife production system just tomow the song sorry at c M A at at e M I hot Dog Day was like, hey, I've got a brand new song. She came to a brand new publishing company office, set down and played it for her and she got through and she goes, she goes, goes, Goes goes. You know, you realize that Tim's dad is like because I know that I knew that Tug was not good health that she was like, He's like like right there, she goes. Did you know that Tim went to the rodeo in Louisiana and wrote a ball And I was like, no, but that's perfect. And I was like I had no, I had no no, and yeah, so all these so all these you know, just it really was it was a very meant meant to be mean, They're like, we're doing a movie option on that thing right now, on which one on lihile you were dying? I mean, here we are fifteen sixteen years later. I mean, and this isn't the first one. I mean, there was a couple that that came and went. There was a TV show, then there was something that kind of came and went, and something felt some funding fell apart or whatever. I think the actual whole network went away, just all that stuff. But all of a sudden, about six months ago, hey man, you know, yeah, and then this seems pretty credible. This is all this is all done by people you've heard of, by companies you've heard of. It's all it seems to be going on. It's like, here we are like that. I was being told that that Tim's got the cowboy in me and the new yellow Stone. Yes, and so so what's that like for you when something comes out of the dark again like that and you're just like, I didn't expect that. Yeah, it's it's a really uh, it's a it's a blass. Your work just keeps on working for you. It's it's it's honor, man, it's come on, man, it's a freaking it's that's nuts, it really is. That's that's crazy. Actually, you know, every songer knows everybody writes songs, but you through all that, you kind of realize that every day and I'm right, I'm really I'm writing songs, you know, three hundred plus days a year, and out of all that, like there might be a copyright once every few years if you're blessed luck. I mean, there's plenty of people that make lots of money, driving nice cards, living nice houses that arguably will never write a copyright, A real, a real you know, hang your hat on kind of thing. You know, there's a there's a point. We talked to athletes a lot or you know, they love the sport, they love their job, but once it becomes a job and you start doing it for a long time, it becomes tough for some people. Did you still love music the way you used to? Yes, I love music, and I love I love I love music people. I love that. That's the onely reasons I got into publishing was just because by the time that happened, you know, I was having a bunch of hits and stuff, and I want to go right. I was. I start off at A and m at at at Alma Irving, and I was the young kid by the time I left, and they were selling things seven or eight number ones. You know, I was the elder statesman by this. But but BMG, the old b MG R c A bought my catalog and so I'm over there and they had a bunch of kids, and so now all of a sudden, instead of me being the twenty five year old kid, I'm the thirty five year old guy. And I with a bunch of twenty five year old kids, and they were all just you know, running around and I tried write with all it. Somebody canceled then, like, hey, you didn't hear with me. I mean, they'd just be terrified standing around the here, just like you. But you know, and I tell this story too. I mean I wrote a song. We wrote a song that Kenny Chesty. I wrote a song with Luke Laird, who at the time, seriously it was like nineteenth the time, and Kenny immediately put her on hold, and Luke like three nights later, he calls at midnight just completely just you know, I man, man, it's Kenny cut I was just like man, I was like, you know what, Luke, I was like, I don't know what Kenny gonna do. I was like, but you know what, you you and I have this song, this song, this very very short list that Kenny himself with together. I was like, so nobody can take that, man. So so that alone, that's a huge thing to say. There are lots of famous songwriters around this town that would love to be in the position that you're in. So have another damn beers, let me go to their bed. Well here you are now. You know, you're co founder of Big Loud. Uh. It's a record label, a publishing company, a management company, all the above. You're you're on the other side of things. You know, we spent all this time talking about you and your start, but now you're the man that people are coming to say, sir, help me. I want to get into this a little weird. Yeah, what what's what's the difference between those three things? You know when you talk about starting a label, a publishing, a publisher, and man, well, well you know the thing you had natural publishing. So it really started as a publish on too though. So I left BMG in two thousand and three. That's when I opened the Georgian Live Out Your Times, No matter if that was on the first demo session, I did so the way to open a publishing company. But I started that because you know, I wanted once again to be around these young songwriters and that energy and to watch their life change. Man, it's just because already by then I was getting cynical, like to heck with a whole. I mean, like I said, there's Luke calling me drunk over a hold. I was already to the point like what do you mean if I don't have title and leadoff single, don't even what are you doing bothering me? And I just realized, like, man, I'm just getting so caught up in all this ship. It's like, no, I want to stop. And like, these kids remind you of how precious every every one of these little steps are. And I was like, I want to stay around that. I want to me And that's really that's why our company we had we always started we have a parking lot party over you know, what's your party for? It's just like just for us, just for all of us to get together and have a beer in the parking lot. It's not that's just a general celebration. I'm a guy the company especially, there's a lot of successes happening now. I'm always got going. When are we gonna have a party? People? You just want to party. I was like, I want to stop and celebrate these blessings and we should because I have been there where they were gone by so fast you took and you take it all for granted, and as soon as they even slow down a little bit, you're just like, what the wrong with this? It's like, dude, that is so screw it up. That is so screwed up tonight, Just in general life, if you can live in a little bit of an awareness of your blessings, how much happier will you be if you could just live with a little bit more of an awareness of of your daily and just your big blessings in general? Oh, I completely agree. I mean it's just so you just get so I get it, and it's so and you know I've done it. I'll do it every day. I'll walk out of here and do it again after talking about it. But man, just to try to just be to live in a little awareness of your blessings. When you sign a writer or you know someone that's come to town wanting to be a writer. What are you looking for? And in these writers? Man, that's just it. So many people about send me a song. It sounds just like stuff on radio. I'm just like, yeah, that's that's okay, good, good for you. Yea, yeah, I know, I want, I want. I would much rather have somebody right stuff. It was like, holy crowd, I don't know you could do that. You know where it really is where there's some I mean it's these people that we work with. I mean these you know that we got God, we get Earnest, we got guy just he was a total rap dude. I mean he was like serious, spitting fire and all they're going like, you know, might try to wrap thing in him. I was like, like, I think he's just an amazing songwriter. And he really is. I mean, the guy the Awards Smith does not begin to describe Earnest. Uh. And then you get around, you know, get around parties, and you get around these guys, get the f g l s and all these guys and Morgan Wallas and all these people that come along. You're just like, dude, the way these guys want to put stuff together and stuff they wanted and that's that's all. I want to publish a company to be for being, for songwriter, to be it for artists or whatever is. Man, it's not a question of someone writers just like we gonna you know, I've tamped this down is a little fit. That's just like, dude, That's what I thought. Always. I tell some many young writers like, man, if they love your song, they will call and ask you to do a tamer line. They will never call and ask you for a better line. That's just to pass. They will always call and go, dude, can we not say, you know, can we not say tap dancing stripper on the hood of a sixty pontiact Like, oh, you want to change the car with your cadillactac, we can do that. I love that car, more room to tap dance, bigger hood. So you know, you know, do you feel the pressure of of um, you know, steering music and where it's going country music? Or do you let the artist kind of do that? And then like what's what's what role do you play in that? I want to put out the best stuff ever heard, whatever it's in half the time, nobody's ever heard anything like that. So whenever that happens, to me and you know, I mean, I mean I remember our, you know, our for our you know, the first FDL album when it was all of a sudden, now all right and those guys and everybody thinks they're overnight, except they spent a year and a half, right, I mean you cruise was written the office beside mine, but there was all kind of rap. But the thing is f gl it got so big and so imitated so fast through all that broke country stuff that nobody just think. But at the time, man, it was like pretty trust me. We had some pushback. It was like someone because all these songs are about party and all these songs, but we got we looked that record and it was like okay, fine, okay, okay, we got a song about mama then that we're supposed to do for a country or but what song do we knock out for this lame, predictable thing. I was like, I don't want to let any of these go. And it really just came like we can't not put this record out with these songs because it's just who wouldn't want to hear that? And that's sort of that's kind of where we're at as opposed to I mean, we've dealt with enough labels and stuff, these stuff where there really is there's a lot of it's driven by a lot of fear and a lot of trying to play it safe and stuff. And and you know that that was at a lot and looking I made a lot of friends and I made a lot of money with the old way that business was done in town. But but but it was it was kind of time for for a new I mean, I went through the years of dude like in the nineties and have some new act. There be this kind of really standout song on the record, Like okay, there you go, like, no, that's not gonna be a little off single, like we're gonna put out this one. You get by ready you know for that. It's like it's just it was just like, you know, man, in music and food, I'm always ready just for something great. I don't have to be you know. You know, it's not like I need to like, you know, get ready for it during I need to eat this crappy tuna fish sandwich from the truck stop before I go to have some great Like I'm just ready for greatness at all times. Just bring it all just right now? Why I don't need to be softened up. I don't need to get ready, I don't need to be you know, massaged, you know all that kind of stuff, and I just just bring it, just bring it all right now? Why not? And so that's kind of we really at the label. We don't only try to talk about that. It's just is it a great song? And the question whether it's gonna fit in out there or not? I bet about half the time or going like, oh this is this is gonna be hard, you know, but that is a great thing. As hard as streaming and download and all that kind of stuff has been on music and songwriters and stuff like that. That has allowed us that thing. We can just put stuff out as we do now as opposed it to to the old radio just going to radio and stuff like that. You're streaming stuff and you get in front of people and they you know, America is the A and R Department and always has been. They they want it, they'll play it. And if they don't, okay, you can throw a lot of money at trying to get them, trying to program them if you want to, but just get the music in front of the people. People will tell you and I'll live and buy it. I'll live and die by that man. Absolutely, Yeah. I want to put some stuff out and that and for me as opposed to do well, here's some major corporation, major music corporation, and we know all the players and we know, oh, this song work well because the demographic their shooting for everything that's easy compared to is America gonna like this or not? And we're really putting it out there. Just are they gonna like this? Like let's just let's just put it out there and see, you know. And that's really kind of yeah, yeah, I try to think about it too much or anything, but it's really because, like I said, we never we never have conversation about that. It's always like people like XO meetings and stuff. It's like I don't even do so I was like, we didn't do some meets and like, well I don't really because our thing is we're kind of are aware of the music we get. Those are getting passed around anyway, and the only songwriting, you know, the only meetings that ever gone though you're cutting out right, well yeah, of course, yeah, of course, what's a great song we're cutting It's a great song, like yeah, and there's not, so there's no when it comes to that. You know, it's funny. It's I think a lot of a lot of the places where a lot of people stop and just augur in really hard. We blow past that in about a tenth of a second, that part of it. Anybody, how much long do you think you're gonna be doing this? You know, I've thought about that, and the idea of me not doing it terrified my wife. Um but what's she gonna have you around? What we're doing today? What we're doing today? Um Man, I don't know, this is what I do. I mean, it really is just not a job. I love it. Um you know, I already kind of take I get burned out. I kind of take summers off anyway, take a couple of months off, go right around a pontoon boat and drink beer and you know, kind of chill. So I mean, I'm not I wanna, I wanna, you know, more of the same. I don't know, I don't. It really is not a job. It's um yeah, I can't see trying to keep up with these kids and stuff. You know, these writers, they got a lot of energy and and and they're freaking brilliant. And the thing is, that's what I realized now that all their influences that they got are just so different and everything. Now it's what I do love that. I do love that that people come along with F G L s and all this kind of stuff. Morgan's and got all these guys, But what's your favorite stuff? And it's like, well, of course there's a Garth Brooks and Georgia Strait and there, but then there's just all the hip hop stuff and all that stuff as well, and they mentioned all that in one breath, and it's just like wow, Okay, I mean it really is. It's just world music now, I mean it is. And well I always saw it like that, the whole idea of coming here in Nashville and this whole these very distinct genres and country music fans want to understand that. Like I'm think country country music fans they're just their music fans. Let's take country like their music fans and a music fan. If it's good music, they're gonna be a fan of it. How about that doesn't matter what ye talking about. How About like, dude, trust me, I've spent ten years in in country bar, in country bars, and Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Louisiana. And when it where it comes to my band and the stuff on the jukebox, they wanted to hear everything. They wanted to hear all the good music at all times. So yeah, yeah, so well, Craig, it was a pleasure talking to you, Mike. Do you have any questions for I think what I take away from that? Because we need to have more parties to celebrate. I agree. I mean, you're absolutely right about that, just in general in life. You know, we need to celebrate our blessings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I understand. And you know our parking lot party did turn into a thing of show up. Well yeah, they drink all the beer, but no, but but you know, pro party doing the day and stuff. But it has not anything. We do it every year and it's just that it's just a cool like for no reason that even takes to own us off the party of or what's it for. It's like it's just for everything. It's just it's just a general party because just to celebrate in general, and just to have a beer with our friends and sit out here and have some popcorn and drink a beer and just you know, and it really is. It's it's it's nice and it is because, like I said, I mean, lord knows, there's so much. Oh, there's a lot of dark and cynical and stuff right now. And everybody's looking for man, everybody's everybody's miserable about crap and everything. And you know, I don't know why. As far as I'm concerned, if you're a young person who's willing to work hard and be positive, you can own this planet right now. I mean that's what I keep looking at. Everybody's on there complaining and stuff, and I'm like, going, dude, you could grab that ball and head right along the sideline to about four hundred to about four hundred touchdowns right now, because there's a lot of people who are just sitting down and crying and complaining and stuff. It's like, that's all about the mute. But it's like, yes, it's hard, it's impossible, it's all. It's all that's of. Somebody need business different now than it was. It's like it's nothing but catch twenty two, and that's impossible. It always has been. It's never different. But you know what if I could go to a number one party of a new kid every week. So this thing that never works, that it's impossible, that never works, happens all the time. So there you go, somewhere in the middle of all that will never happen, consider that it's happening all the time. So there we go. Hey man, thank you so much, really if for talking to great. It's good meeting you and your your your energies. You have a lot of energy and I love it and and you know, being kind of ran through the ringer in this town. To see you on this side of it coming out so positive and full of wisdom like that, it's very inspiring. I was glad to help you out man failures and then my false images that I had in this songwriting. You're you're You're coming to the parking lot party. It'll be may I'll horr at you got it. You come, you get you get a balloon hat. Oh you have balloons. You get a balloon animal hat. You get a nice, big, big cold cup of beer. It's gonna be amazing. I have been to one of your parties. It was after a c m A Awards, was upstairs at your office. I was probably in your office, sitting in your desk. Did you guys, basically turn your workspace into Those night parties were biblical, so we'll put it this way. Taylor Swift came to one of them. It was texting about our hangover. The next day. We were like, yeah, I'm in our late night parties. Man. It was like, oh wow, all right, we'll do that again, Craig, all right man, Thank you so much. Craig Wiseman,