Jayson Stark talks D’Backs & Phillies at deadline, Moving trade date back, Future of ABS challenges

00:00:00
Speaker 1: After one hundred and ten games. What your team is and what your odds are, and what you should do for now and for down the road.

00:00:12
Speaker 2: Jason Stark from the Athletic joining us right now. Jason, it's so great to see you. Thank you for joining us. How are you and how was your All Star coverage?

00:00:20
Speaker 1: I'm great, guys, happy second half to you. Saw Eric Scott, I saw your father. Never did lay eyes on you, but had a great time in Atlanta. The swing off was just one of those moments where I was so glad I was in the park with a computer I write about that.

00:00:40
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you about that, Jason, because you've done a lot of reporting over the years on changes and the evolution of rules within the league. Do you think that we'll see more of this now? I'm not even necessarily saying regular season, but can they even figure out a way to incorporate this into more All Star Games if it doesn't involve extra innings? What are your thoughts? What have you seen?

00:01:05
Speaker 1: Wait, just explain to me what you're conjecturing here. That there would be home run derby busting out in the middle of regulation before we even got text trainings.

00:01:15
Speaker 2: So here was one thing I was coming up with yesterday. Either two options. Either you play the game and then at the end of the game you do a derby and if let's say the AL was winning six to two, each team gets three swings. The AL has a four run lead, so they get four bonus swings. Or mid game you do a derby and that can lead to an extra run with a three swing swing off. It's an exhibition game, Okay. We debated a lot yesterday, Jason about if we would ever see it in a regular season game, maybe from the twelfth inning on. What are your thoughts on that? And do you think that messing with the All Star Game is too much or it's okay because it's an exhibition.

00:02:01
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do these one thing at a time. First off, I love this. It was so much fun. Every once in a while, you know, given the stuff I write about all the time, when something like this breaks out, I almost feel like I somehow willed it to happen, you know what I mean? Just why I could write about it. It was so entertaining and the way the crowd got into it and those players got into it. It was awesome for the All Star Game. I am not a proponent of doing this in any other context. But one thing I couldn't help but think about was all the powers that be in the sport were in the park watching that and seeing how people reacted, hearing the buzz, just watching the reaction to those Kyle Schwerber bombs and thinking they're gonna be tempted to do this. I don't know, guys, how do you feel about the idea that the last pitch of a game that counts would be thrown by a coach. I'm not there yet, Jason.

00:03:12
Speaker 3: Sorry that Scott just wasted your time with what he was saying, because I've tried to stop him. They try to stop me when I say just as nine things, and this is my chance to just stop Scott from constantly talking about this. But no, it's not. We don't want coaches on the field like the game's played for players. It was so awesome. I completely agree with you that it was awesome. But from that game, besides that, what is the storyline that is going to bleed into the second half from the All Star Game? Because obviously everyone's like, oh, Kyle Raley's going to be so tired because he played in the home run derby in the game and all of stuff. But what do you feel like is going to bleed into the second half as we left the All Star Game in.

00:03:57
Speaker 1: Atlanta, something from the game besides that, that's going to be the thing we talk about most. I think, I mean, I've been honestly thinking about what does this do for Kyle Schwarber's trip to free agency. I think he was going to get paid, even though there's really no precedent I think for a contract for a guy who fits his profile. But you saw it, you. I mean, I talked to players in that National League clubhouse about that guy afterwards, and just hearing Kyle Staras say that guy's a legend and this just made him more of a legend. Does this help Kyle Schwarber's trip to free agency? Because I'm gonna vote yes, understandably.

00:04:46
Speaker 4: So. The guy's an absolute beast. He's been doing it for years. My question to you is I'm jumping to a team here. The Arizona Diamondbacks have been okay the past couple of years, made it to the playoffs, almost made a run, you know, and won the whole thing. And now they're in a stance here are they going to be sellers, are they not? They got a couple of pieces they can get rid of. In my opinion, I feel like they should be sellers. Talk to me a little bit about the Diamondbacks with this trade deadline coming.

00:05:10
Speaker 1: Up, tad. From what I'm hearing, they are set up to sell. They're clearly the team to watch here these next two weeks, and just think of how the planets are lining up. They have the perfect excuse to sell, don't they. They can just stand there and say, we loved our team, we couldn't stay healthy. We're in a tough division, so we're going to trade these guys and then try to sign them all again as free agents. And I honestly think that's what's gonna happen. So I don't know, isn't there a world where au Haneo and Josh Nayler become the two best bats traded? I think so. And I don't know if they deal both Merrill Kelly and Zach Gallan, But I mean, what are the odds whichever one of those two they do sign becomes the best starting pitcher traded. I think they're really high that that's a team that I think now controls the deadline. They're perfectly positioned and they know it.

00:06:14
Speaker 3: But is this team they're not looking to rebuild, They're not even looking to really necessarily build their farm system. So this might be my favorite team because they could make a baseball trade where they're like, hey, we'll take your you know, we'll take your already established big leaguer with one year of time for our rental that we have. Is there a team that they match up the best in that type of trade?

00:06:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they match up with about ten teams. You know. They look, they've got the walk year All Stars, you know, so the value of rent of players has been falling in this market. But for them to get one young piece of the puzzle, I mean, that fits infinite number of teams, you know. I don't again, I don't know if how many teams that are in a race want to trade a player who's actually on their big league roster right now. But they're going to do fine, I think. And you know what, you just described a team looking to make trades that are good baseball trades that set them up to compete again next year. That describes the Diamondbacks perfectly for me.

00:07:35
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00:08:29
Speaker 2: They are super popular. Go give them a look. Car gurus dot com, c r g u r us dot com. Hey Jason, I want to ask you about the trade deadline in general. Your colleague got the Athletic and our buddy on this show. Jim Bowden recently put out an article saying that he thinks the trade deadline should be pushed back a bit after years now of a case study, with the third wildcard team added and more teams with a decent percentage of making the playoffs. Are you okay with where we're at or do you feel like we're hurting ourselves as a game by preventing trades from happening because too many teams are still on the fence, and it would give them a little bit more time after the draft to collect thoughts, right, because it seems like generally most teams are not doing much until after the draft, which is three days ago.

00:09:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, Scott, both those things are true, and I agree with Jim to that point. But I think there comes a time when teams need to make a decision about what they are. And I think teams can waffle until August fifteenth just as easily as they can waffle till Live thirty first. And when I look at these teams that can't decide, I just think you should understand after one hundred and ten games or whatever it is, what your team is and what your odds are, and what you should do for now and for down the road. And I just think it's an excuse. I don't know how much it clarifies anything to wait until August fifteenth. I do think it's an issue the teams that have some big injury after July thirty first have no vehicle to make a trade that gets them a replacement. I would like the sport to think about that, but otherwise I like it where it is.

00:10:24
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more. I got traded plenty of times on August thirtieth. I'm not a big I'm not a big playoff contributor, but I still think teams need to have that out where they get that August thirtieth deadline back again because big guys get moved. Justin Verlander gets moved during that time.

00:10:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that Justin Verlander trade is one of the biggest, most difference making deals of the last ten years. And it happened not in July but in August. And just the all the anecdotes about out what happened that night with the Astros people waiting in a car outside his house right and him running down the stairs so he could sign and approve the deal right before midnight tremendous. Give me as many tales like that as we can put together.

00:11:17
Speaker 3: I don't know all those stories. I like reading all those stories, but they don't all line up right for me, Like like they got the call in by eleven fifty nine and supposedly he's still signed it. Anyway, we don't need to make up stories to be friends, Jason, but I do. I do have to ask you about the Phillies. Dave Dombrowski is like he is waiting with his hand on the button to trade for somebody. How big of a move or moves is Dave Dombrowski looking to make right now, all the way up until the trade deadline?

00:11:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I Eric. I think he has this sense about his team that with the right move or moves, they can win the World Series. That everybody else is beatable their team too, but they have that team that nobody wants to play because of their pitching. Right. And I ran into a guy in Atlanta who has talked to Dave, and he said he thinks Dave is geared up to do something huge. He's got his prospect chips ready to go, and look, his ideal trade is not gonna happen. His ideal trade is the twins for Byron Buxton and Johann Duran. That that's not gonna happen. The Twins aren't gonna do that. But that's what I think David do in an ideal world. Give up a ton of prospects for a big bat, a huge arm, and two guys he can control beyond this year.

00:12:48
Speaker 4: Okay, so let's go to this. So ABS challenge was used in the All Star Game. I thought that was pretty cool. You saw guys like Wilson understand his strike zone. You saw men Machado actually strike out. Do you think this is a lock for next year?

00:13:05
Speaker 1: I do. It really sounds that way, and you know I hear I've heard you guys talk about it. I've thought about it a lot, mister rule change. You know, I love using technology to make the sport better, but I'm just not sold that introducing a challenge system without some sort of buffer zone makes sense. I know Rob Manford shot that down when I asked him that about in the Baseball Writers meeting the other day. But do you guys want a game decided by a call overturned on a pitch one one hundredth of an inch outside Because I'm not comfortable with that. I'm really not.

00:13:48
Speaker 3: Well, you're not comfortable with it? So then shrink the strike zone, and then when it hits the edge, it's a strike. Like Jason, it's a strike. One of an inch off is a ball on. It's a strike. Now if you can tell me that it's not, if you can tell me that it's not that accurate, like the distance for the home runs and the home run derby, like they just made up. They wanted right and they wanted cal Raley to move on. But to me, there's no there's no buffer zone. We don't need a buffer zone. The strike zone is what they made it, and if it's too big, make it smaller. But if it hits that smaller strike zone, it is a strike.

00:14:27
Speaker 1: Okay, So I think I can tell you that we know that Major League Baseball acknowledged to the players on the Competition Committee earlier this year that there is a margin for err with abs of up to half an inch half an inch. And so when you've got that much wiggle room, that much margin for error, how does it not make sense to have some kind of buffer zone. I think there are a lot of different ways to introduce that, But like I know that you have to draw the line somewhere between what's a ball and what's a strike? I get it, but I just don't want with two outs in the ninth the picture to pop the mit, the umpire to call strike three, and then it's challenged and the game changes based on a call that technologically may or may not be correct. I also wonder about whether the up down portion of ABS is technologically correct. I know that they they've experimented with a lot of different permutations of this, but there's no surefire way to especially gauge height, and so they're doing it by percentage of height. And this like a guy who is up there in a crouch, his strike zone is not the same as the guy who's upright, but his ABS strike zone is the same. And so I look, these are things that I've got to work through in my brain. And you know, you heard Tony Clark the other day say the Union feels like there needs to be a buffer zone. They're gonna clash on this, but Rob Manford MLB, they hold the cards, so whatever they decide is what's going to happen.

00:16:17
Speaker 3: But isn't there gamesmanship in this? Isn't there gamesmanship in the fact that when you go into Texas, AH, the ABS is a little bit wider. Oh, every time we go into Sacramento because their cameras are the lower angle, Like, isn't there gamesmanship? Well, why is Jacob Wilson squatting a little bit lower this year? Like there's a gamesmanship to that that. Don't you think teams will be able to work through? Like it's not going to be catastrophic like a Jim Joyce missed out call at first base for a perfect game.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: So you're basically saying that pitchers and catchers and even hitters right have to adjust to the abs strikes zone in a given city, the way that you guys have spent your lives adjusting to umpire strike zones. Is that what you want? Yeah? And I think there's murd in that I can't. Here's my problem, Eric, We're talking about the use of technology, and how are you selling it to your fans. You're telling them we don't worry about those egregious calls that humans make because we've now got robots and they're going to get this right. But are we sure about that? And if they don't, there are games riding on it, There are postseasons riding on it, there are legacies riding on it. One more thing I can't get out of my head. There are wagers, okay on DraftKings riding on it. So if you're going to use this, doesn't it have to be right? Think about it.

00:17:53
Speaker 2: Here's the one thing I feel like we can all agree on right now. It's fun at the current setup. I think it's fun. Two challenges and then you keep them if the yump's wrong. That part I think has resonated well in the minor leagues, in spring training and now from the All Star Game the other day, I didn't hear anybody, and most of my social media browsing saw people be like, oh, that took ten seconds and haha, got it wrong on three out of four or four or five whatever it was. Can we agree on that?

00:18:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun. Like I don't know how much fun the umpires think it is. It's fun. I mean the wait for the animation to appear in that scoreboard and then sometimes like one of my favorite things in spring training was fans would boo the cartoon. What are they booing?

00:18:46
Speaker 2: That's fun?

00:18:46
Speaker 3: Though I agree, it's like them always booing the Astros jersey. Like none of the guys except for Joseel Tuve were on the team, and they said they just boo the jersey, so why not boo an animation.

00:18:56
Speaker 2: Fans are looking for something to cheer for and looking for something to do, and this is another.

00:19:00
Speaker 3: And that's engagement with the arsenal. That's engagement, his engagement.

00:19:03
Speaker 2: I'm more locked into a game if I can say, oh, they should challenge that one. That one's off, whether I'm at home or at the ballpark. But yes, to be continued, Jason, we'd love to keep the colm going. I'm sure there will be more articles in the Athletic about it. Great to talk to you. Happy second half of the season to you.

00:19:20
Speaker 1: I always enjoyed talking to you guys. Thanks