Vivacious Variegation, the Truth About Milky Spore, and Plant Breeder Megan Mathey

Hello, my friends across the fruited and rooted plane. It's time for the
Gardening Simplified Show with Stacy Hervella, me, Rick Weist, and our engineer
and producer Adrianna Robinson, as we broadcast from the Beautiful Studio a at proven
winners, color Choice shrubs, and yes, things are in flower here.
We hope things are blooming where you're at, Stacy. To start things off
today, let's talk plant variegation, foliage, variegation. The other day I
was walking through the greenhouse and I took a look at Wagila. I pronounced
that right, Wougila right, yes, vino verde. Oh yeah. And
this is a really cool plant. Now, for folks who are watching us
on YouTube, you'll see this pop up. It has lime green leaves and
a bold black margin. When you talk about variegation and foliage, this is
a beauty. It's very unique. There are there's really not very many other
plants that look like it. And it keeps the variegation all season, which
doesn't always happen. So it is a very bold and very different look.
You know, I think, and I'm sure you're gonna get to this,
but varigation is a very polarizing topic. Oh my word, is it ever?
And we will get to that. You know, when you think of
foliage variegation, one of the first plants that comes to mind, of course,
are hastas. There are many proven winners has their shadow land hastas like
etched glass, Liberty or mighty mouse. These are all hastas that have that
variegation. Or you look at one of my favorites in the landscape, Pullman
area, and it's splotchy foliage. But with variegation in the landscape, you're
so right stacy that you have to be careful or selective because for me,
if too much variegation is used in the landscape, it just gets too busy
in it and it bothers me visually. And you know, the people who
love variegation, though, they tend to love variegation, and so they pile
it on. And I kind of think that variegation is like an all or
nothing or deal, like you're going either going like one carefully placed variegated plants
or you're just like pouring it on and making some sort of variegated wonderland,
which I have seen work. It's not everybody's taste, but you know,
it's it's it makes a lot of people, I think, appreciate sort of
the quietness of the garden, and variegated plants not quiet. Yeah, the
eye needs a place to rest, and variegation can get kind of busy.
But again, this is controversial. You know, a few weeks ago we
we got controversial with the whole cilantrol thing. So let's jump right back in
here and talk about variegation. Now. It can be argued that plant breeders
have an interest in variegation because of the economic value of variegation in certain plants.
And this is something that I experienced with houseplants in the industry, especially
two eighteen to twenty twenty one. Of course, there was the houseplant craze
and people wanted their calathias, their aglinemas, their pothos, all kinds of
plants. And this year's houseplant of the Year, feeling Flirty, is a
variegated plant. But it was really philodendrons and monstera that took it to the
next level. And these were like genetic mutation. It almost became like tulipmania
in Holland in the sixteen hundreds, when these viral infections would cause variations and
variegations, and then of course people would borrow money against their house or whatever
it is, and then the market collapsed. And while we all know what
happens that bubble burst, but it was kind of like that because some of
the prices that I was seeing out there for a variegated monstera was crazy.
Yeah it was. It was. Yeah, it was tulip mania kind of
tulipmania kind of stuff. And then it still is. I think you still
see those things that I'll see on Facebook. Some local greenhouse say we've got
three, you know, tai Constellation monstera or whatever, and you know they're
one hundred and eighty dollars. Come and get them before they're gone and they'll
be gone. And talk about the just just talk about the whole cilantro thing
in the controversy. Same here with the house plants, because the pink congo
philodendron came along where people eventually determined that this plant was not variegated because the
plant wanted to be variegated, but people made it variegated and in color and
the variegation would not last and that created boy, a whole big tada.
But it does bring up a point I wanted to ask your opinion, Stacy
on variegation in foliage. People will often ask me, hey, can low
light conditions cause a variegated plant to lose its pattern and turn green? What
do you think about that? Yes, a ken and absolutely ken so And
similarly, highlight conditions can cause variegation to burn or you know, scorch and
yeah, Because basically, variegation can be a couple of different things. You
can have gold variegation, you can have white variegation, and like we're talking
about purple and black, there's a lot of different ways pink that it can
manifest, different shades of green even but generally when you're dealing with like the
yellow or white variegation, the white is a lack of chlorophyll. There are
no chlorophyll cells in that white portion. That's why it's white. In the
case of the yellow variegation, there is a different plant pigment rather than chlorophyll
or some chlorophyll, and mostly the yellow plant pigment, and that chlorophyll is
basically a plant sunscreen. Sure you know it's it's the part of the plant
that makes energy from sunlight, but it also works as a sunscreen for the
plant. So if you don't, if it's not getting enough sun, then
that can cause it to you know, it's not going to be as vivid.
It will go kind of a muddy, and if it's getting too much,
that can cause it to burn because it doesn't have that sunscreen. And
it's very common and I'm sure you've seen this in the garden center industry as
well for plants when they come out of pollyhouses or greenhouses, or if you
order plants by mail and you take them out of the box. Anytime they've
been in those lower light conditions, they're not experiencing the full spectrum of sunlight
that brings that variegation to the forefront. But that doesn't mean it's not there.
It returns once it gets into light conditions. So there you have it,
folks. It's not a fig leaf of your imagination. That is a
real thing. I have favorites, of course. I love the cord lines,
the tropical plant cord lines. I love colladiums, like the heart to
heart colladiums. That's just a riot of color on foliage and in our annual
containers. Variegated Swedish ivy is a plectranthus which is in my opinion a great
choice, and of course sweet potato vines something like sweet potato vines even that
has gotten into the act with a tricolor sweet potato vine. A lot of
people like that one because it's a little bit smaller and less rambunctious than a
lot of the other sweet potato vines. Now, as I understand it,
there are different types of variegation. There is genetic variegation where it's simply passed
down it's in the DNA of the plant, and then the next type of
variegation. I'm so happy to have Stacy seated next to me because I can't
pronounce this. I think it's chimeric or chimeric or chimeric. I've heard it
kei kai or ka, and I really don't care anymore. It's spelled hi
M R I C. But that's kind of a random occurring and not predictable
variegation in plants. Then we have blister or reflective variegation. One of my
favorites is satin pothos or silver splash. It's a variegation formed by air pockets
that exist between the outer leaf lair and the inner pigmented layer of the plant,
and then I'm going to throw in the fourth type, and that is
artificial, where people make the plant variegated, but it's not going to last.
In other words, inject something into the plant. I have seen that
with painted succulents, or the pink congo philodendron, or or variations and orchids.
Well, you know, it's it's important to understand that variegation is a
mutation. It's not you know, in nature, very few plants are just
gonna, you know, emerge from the seed as a variegation. Most typically
what happens is that they emerge as a sport. So you've got a plant,
it's all green, and then when do you walk out and you're like,
holy macaroni, there is a variegated branch, Holy macaroni, varigated branch
on my plants. And it's just that that little part of the plant is
has flipped its genes. And that's how most of our variegated plants end up
getting to us. Although sometimes that is not always stable. So what happens
is a plant breeder will take that cutting and try to grow it, but
very often it's not stable. It will revert and very often when you have
variegated plants, you'll find some green shoots coming out here and there as it
tries to revert or go back to its all green form. Interesting. So
again, these sports can be very valuable and interesting and provide new plants and
variegation within your landscape. But again probably proceed with caution. However, however,
caution as far as overdoing it is concerned my opinion. However, coming
up in Plants on Trial, we're going to talk about a variegated plant that
I like in mass Oh all right, yeah, that's coming up next here
on the Gardening Simplified Shows, stay tuned. Winners Colored Choice Shrubs cares about
your success in the garden. That's why we trial and test all of our
shrubs for eight to ten years, making sure they outperform everything else on the
market. Look for them and the distinctive white container at your local garden center.
Creating's Gardening friends, and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. It's
part of the show where we put a plant on trial. We talk about
one of the three hundred and twenty proven Winners Colored Choice Shrubs, and you
decide if you're going to give it a try in your garden or not now.
Rick. At the beginning of the show, we were talking about variegation
and you said you like it. So I have a question for you.
Does that make you a sports fan? I am a sports fan. Good
Ones, Stacy, thank you appreciate that. Well, today's Plant on Trial
is, of course variegated. I don't have a response to that. I'm
just letting you have your moment. Thanks. It's, you know, when
it's extreme horticultural humor. I'm not sure that many people look Kennedy, Oh
they may have just heard it, but you know, I'm cracking myself up.
But yeah, it's of course it's a variegated plant for today's Plant on
Trial. And you know, last week we talked about a newer plant do
will play Doozy spy Rhea. Today we are talking about an old favorite that's
been a part of the proven winner's line for many, many years, and
that is my Monai Waigila. I love it. And mister what was it?
Vigel would be proud? Was it? Vigel? Yes, mister Wigel,
Yes, he would be proud. He'd be proud. Yeah, why
Gila has come a long way since the first plane Waigila came out, and
you know, we have a number of variegated wigila reck you mentioned Vino Verde,
which has a bit of an unconventional variegation. We've got a new one
called Bubbly Wine, will be out next year. But I wanted to go
back to the classic, and that is My Monai, because there had been
some variegated waigila on the market before, but really nothing like Mymonai. I'm
sure you remember when it came out. I mean, it really was a
sensation because there wasn't anything like. First of all, it's variegation is so
pretty. It's a really nice mint green in the center with a pure white
margin, and that margin when we say margin, we mean the outer edge
of the leaf, and that takes on pink tones during cool weather, so
in spring it can have pink and white and that beautiful mint green all at
once. So in addition to this gorgeous variegation, it actually is a very
good bloomer. Has quite a lot of pink flowers that go perfectly with it.
Some plants, variegated plants when they flower, the flowers actually detract from
the variegation. They're not really doing much. In the case of Mymonai,
they absolutely accentuate it. And it is a dwarf wigila. So for many,
many years, whigella were huge plants that were mostly used as hedges.
You know. They were six to eight feet tall, very woody, very
large, and Mymonai clocks in at a very diminutive one and a half feet
tall and two feet wide. I love it, so, I really do
it. Just it's controlled. And you mentioned the colors. I love the
fact that there are hints of pink in there. Yeah. And I've always
been a person who feels that pink is a great color in the landscape because
pink plays well with just about any other color. So if we're talking about
a busy variegated plant, why not have some pink in the color? Yeah,
And so it's really between the size and the color. It kind of
just made people take a new look at whigila because it could be used in
a way that wigila had not been used before. It really, in its
looks and in its size, it's almost like a perennial. And instead of
thinking about it as a big landscape shraba you have to clear out a bunch
of space and takes a bunch of time to plant. You could really treat
it as a perennial growing alongside you know, things like hosta and all of
these other popular perennials. And it was neat and tidy and well behaved and
in very very beautiful. And another reason that it was kind of a game
changer is Whigila has traditionally always been a full sun plant, and Wigila is
Mymoneuagila is very much heart shade plant. You're going to want to put this
thing in parts on so you know, four to six hours of sun each
day, and that will really help prevent that white again, that pure white
edge, no chlorophyll in that, so that will help prevent it from getting
sunburned. And so people who couldn't grow Agila before all of a sudden could
grow Agila with something like my monai. And that's part of the reason I
said that I enjoy. You know, usually do not like variegated plants in
mass, but my monai, I'm I'm willing to live with that. I
think it looks looks really really sharp. Now, of course. Monee and
I'm reading this here, the French painter and founder of Impressionist painting. Basically
his attempts to paint nature as he perceived it as he perceived it, and
you know, that's what we try to do in the landscape. Also,
each of us has different taste, different approaches, but a plant like my
monai, I think, just give you license to get creative, you know.
And I have seen over the years that I have been with proven winners,
colored choice shrubs, a number of very interesting plantings of my mona,
and I agree with you, this is one that I think does work very
well on mass um. It's there's something about it that I think is a
little less busy than a lot of variegated plants. It's, you know,
some variegated plants, the foliage, the colors are kind of all modeled and
swirled together, whereas mymonai has a very organized variegation where that white edge just
kind of neatly goes around the green and so it makes it much more RESTful.
We used to have a huge mass planting of it in our trial gardens,
which was lovely, and I have seen it in um you know,
gardens in Canada and the US where people have said, I just wanted to
shooting out how much I love my moona wigila, and they send a picture
and they've got like fifty of them, and it's it's a sight to behold.
That's fantastic. So where does my moonai whigila come from? Well,
of course, not surprisingly, it comes from the Netherlands. Uh. And
you know we've had again this one for a long time. And in the
Netherlands, you know, over twenty years ago or so, that's where all
of the plant breeding, ornamental plant breeding really was happening. And so we
brought this over from a breeder named Vert hurt ver Hoof. I don't know
you're you're going to sea for that's his name, Am I mispronouncing that?
You got it? Okay, verho Verhoof. And so it was his work
and as many plants, as I said previously, many variegated plants developed.
It was a sport off of something else. So another whigela just puts out
this random branch. Whether or not that branch can then be collected and propagated
and continue to grow on depends. But in the case of my mona wigila,
fortunately the answer is yes that it can. And if you've grown my
money gila before, you may find that it does shoot out some green shoots
here and there, and that's totally normal. Like I said, it's you
know, when something has a very work is variegated from a sport, it's
not always genetically consistently that one. There's still some of that green plant lurking
around in those genes, and as such, it can pop back up.
And when you see that happen with any variegated plant, whether it's a perennial
or a shrub, you want to make sure that you remove that as soon
as possible because that green shoot is all chlorophyll, so it's going to have
a lot more energy than the variegated plant surrounding it, and it will easily
outcompete it if it's left to its own devices. So you just want to
get your pruners out, snip that out as close to the base as you
can, and that will improve the look. And again this is very common.
It's not something that you know, people want to happen. But rare
is the variegated plant that has absolutely no reversion. Now with my monae,
my recommendation Stacy would be that often for the landscape, I look for plants
with foliage color. So in spring, love to plant colius. Yes,
I know, the deer love the colias. Too, But I love colias
simply because foliage color will just reliably give you color all season long. And
you could say to a degree that you could plant my moonai similar to the
way you plant colias, and that is you're planting the foliage for season long
color. Yeah, and you know it is a plant that again you're gonna
want to give it partsun and you don't want to let it dry out.
So if you have a regular, more conventional way, Deela, that's a
big, full green plant, it's going to be able to take a little
drought. Now, my moonai is not one of those plants. It's going
to be able to take drought. If it gets stressed, it will go
dormant early. Now, it won't kill the plant generally unless it go it's
an extreme condition. But if it gets stressed, what happens is it's just
like you know what, I'm done. Can't deal with this, just dropping
my foliage and dropping out for the rest of the season. And you don't
want that to happen because then you'll be looking at sticks and you'll think it's
dead and you might take it out, which it probably isn't. So this
is not a plant I would say to put in your most drought tolerant,
hot sunny spot. It's going to want a cooler spot. It's gonna want
parts on, it's gonna want mulch, you know, whether or not you're
in a drought, because mulch is extremely beneficial to all sorts of plants and
regular water. And that's really going to give you the best look. Now,
because it is so small, I find that it needs no pruning at
all. It's again, it's so tidy. The only pruning you're going to
need to do is if it does put out that occasional green shoot. You
don't want it to revert, so you just want to take those out.
It blooms on old wood, so if you do need to prune the whole
thing, you're going to do that after it flowers, which is you know,
right about now in early summer, and like most of hijila, quite
tier resistant. I recommend planting it in your landscape. I love it container
or a container. This is just a great plant. It won't take a
lot of monet to afford this plant. No, well, I need to
brush up on my past. Sorry, and you will find it at your
local gardens. Set it right now, is a great time to shop for
ygeala, so please do visit your local garden center. If you don't know
where one is, visit proven Winner's Color Choice dot com. You can find
a listing of retailers that sell our plants. And we really hope that if
you have the conditions for this really unique classic variegated by Jila, you will
add it to your garden. See pictures and all the details at Gardening Simplified
OnAir dot com. We're going to take a little break. When we come
back, we open up that garden mail bag and find out what's on your
mind, so please stay tuned. At proven Winner's Color Choice, we've got
a shrub for every taste and every space. Whether you're looking for an easycare
rose, an unforgettable hydrangea, or something new and unique, you can be
confident that the shrubs and the white containers have been trialed and tested for your
success. Look for them at your local garden center. Greenings, Gardeners,
and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. One of the ways we'd like
to make gardening a little bit simpler for you is to answer your gardening questions.
We can pull well our knowledge and experience to help you with whatever you
are dealing with. So you can just email us at help HLP at Gardening
Simplified OnAir dot com or visit Gardening Simplified on air dot com. You can
check out our show notes as well as you use the contact us tap to
send a picture and your issue. And you know, now that the gardening
season is in full swing, we're definitely hearing from people with some problems.
But you know, if you don't have a problem, you just want to
celebrate. That's cool too. We love to hear from you, and so
let's, without further ado, get to the issues that are plaguing the gardeners
out there. Let's do it. Okay, and has a great question.
I'm a gardener in Zone six A. My gardens are just coming into their
own. I love the month of June when that happens. But I know
just around the corner is the season. I dread Japanese beetle season. They
destroy everything. I purchased milky spore, but always feel like it isn't the
right time to apply it, as milky spore the best approach to breaking the
cycle. If so, is it best to apply in spring? Summer?
Fall. Thank you confused in New York, Well, you know, and
I want to thank you so much for writing in and such a great,
greatly worded question. You know, of course I was aware of milky spore,
but when I really dived in to help and with her question, I
feel like I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole, grub hole,
as you were, beetle hole, and I learned a lot. So
it's quite interesting. So a little bit of background. Milky spore is a
bacteria. It's a bacteria that was discovered in about the nineteen thirties and it
was approved for use by the public in nineteen forty eight. So one of
our earliest biological controls or using one organism to control a past. So it's
a living bacteria. And this bacteria basically, when grubs the larval stage or
baby stage of the beetle eat it, they as they're feeding in the soil
on roots and algae and that kind of thing, if they consume milky spore,
this bacteria, it goes into their gut, it multiplies, and they
die. And interestingly, milky spore can only be produced from grubs that already
have milky spore exactly in other words, you need a sizable grub population for
it to work. And even when they produce it for sale for people to
apply to their lawns, they have no synthetic process. They are literally farming
these grubs, taking them and somehow extracting the bacteria from these grubs that are
infected with it, and that's what they're selling you. And apparently milky spore
underwent a little bit of a controversy in the nineteen nineties where a company thought
that they could make synthetic milky spore that was completely ineffective, and they put
it out on the market and people were like, what's going on, And
so everybody has gone back now to this in vitro production of the bacteria.
Now, it's important to understand milky spore only works on Japanese beetles, so
if you have other type of beetle grubs that are damaging your lawn, it's
sort of a two pronged effect, right, So people want to control the
adult Japanese beetles like and because they're eating all of your ornamentals, but the
grubs do also cause damage two lawns, and it's easy, it's it's somewhat
easier to control them when they're in that stage. But if you're applying it
to your lawn and you have other types of grubs, not going to be
effective on anything but those Japanese beetle grubs. Now it is not a true
control. It's known as a population suppressant. So you know, and you
said that, is this the best way to break the cycle. The answer
to that is no, it's not really going to break the cycle. What
it's going to do is suppress the population in your yard only because you're you
know, they do fly. Adult Japanese beetles are are quite able to fly
pretty long distances. But it will help limit the number of grubs that are
in your lawn to control their damage as well as the ones that emerge.
And another little complicated factor here is that milky sport is really only effective if
it's consumed at sixty six to seventy degrees. So you need the soil temperatures
which to have about a three hour delay from the air temperature. You need
the grubs present, you need the milky spore present, and you need it
to be sixty six to seventy degrees for them to actually consume it and for
it to be effective and actually kill them. So I don't want to be
discouraging because this is obviously a really good, easy, non toxic way,
but it does have a lot of caveats with it, and you know,
very often that's the case. So I'm not going to discourage you from doing
it, you know, especially if it's not expensive, you can put it
out there. You want to put it out in spring, because again,
what you want it's going to depend someone on your formulation and what it recommends,
but you want it to be present when there are grubs that are actively
feeding, so that the bacteria can reactivate in the soil and be consumed by
them. But a lot of times, especially for people in northern climates like
us, you know, we may not get up to sixty six to seventy
degrees when those grubs are actively feeding. So it's a really complex and interesting
situation. I will definitely put some resources on the show notes at Gardening Simplified
OnAir dot Com, but I don't think that it is the most effective way.
You're going to want a multi pronged approach to the controlling Japanese. Yeah,
and and the situation here is that it's the adults that are doing the
damage in your landscape. So identify first the plants that they most like to
munchon, Like roses are a plant. There are a variety of plants that
the Japanese beetle adult will attack. And what I will do is I anticipate
that to happen. I agree with you, Stacey. Even if you're applying
some type of control to your lawn, if your neighbors aren't, or the
surrounding areas aren't, adult beetles fly and you're going to have a problem.
So take a look at those plants that are most susceptible in your landscape and
then treat them right about the time the Japanese beetle adults come out. You
can use neeme sprays. There's a spino Said spray that you can use.
All of these things I've tried and they work out. They work out quite
well. I also find a lot of therapeutic advantage to picking them off foliage,
dumping them into soapy water. I've tried vacuuming them off that. Now
that's a skill that you have to develop because you can damage foliage. A
shop back, I could see that not going well and something like a rose
exactly. But you know, I think that it's so important when you're dealing
with pest insects, whether it's spottered lantern fly or Asianic garden beetles or Japanese
beetles, to understand that when you do hand pick them, you are impacting
the population, and not in a significant way with just one, but when
you look at the way they multiply over the years and the population goes up,
it does make a difference to go ahead and hand pick them. Sure,
it makes a difference. And of course, the Japanese beetles as adults
are feeding, they're mating, they're laying eggs in the lawn, and the
whole cycle starts over again. And so as a part of integrated pest management,
it's also important whatever the pest you're dealing with, and in this case,
Japanese beetle, to understand the life cycle so that you can be proactive
in dealing with these Japanese beetles. And I feel your pain. Yeah,
And you know what, this is not the solution for everybody. But if
you can get chickens, because wow, they love Japanese beetles, they will
definitely take care of not just the adults, but the grubs as well.
So if that's a viable control option for you, lucky you, because you'll
also get eggs. But again, lots to know about Japanese beetles. I
will put some resources in the show notes for Anne and for anyone else who
is unfortunate enough to have to deal with them. But it does take a
full on IPM approach to trying to manage it. And absolutely, oh and
one other quick thing. You know, we could talk for hours about Japanese
beetles, but bear in mind that again, if you are able to spray
early enough the foliage of these plants that are most susceptible, you're going to
really put a dent into the problem. Because Japanese beetles, once they've attacked
the plant, they almost send out this signal for people additional beetles to join
the party. The problem compounds on itself. So if you can avoid it
from the start, it really makes a difference to otherwise your foliage becomes Swiss
cheese. Bill writes to us in early April, I planted English lavender seeds
for bees, but it has been the slowest growing of anything I've planted this
year. I understand lavender needs consistently warm temperatures in which to grow, prefers
dry conditions, even so two months later, anything that has sprouted is just
barely above the soil. Yep. And then he goes on to say,
what could I be doing wrong aside from maybe being impatient? And well,
Bill, we know patience is a virtue, especially for gardeners. But no
one can blame you for being impatient. But that is really all there is
to it. Lavender is very, very slow to grow from seed. And
you know, honestly, I am pretty impressed with the German nation they had.
Bill included a picture which we can add to the show notes, and
I'm pretty impressed with the results he was able to get from growing it.
I mean sometimes that when I was reading it, some sources were saying that
lavender will take one to three months to even Germany, never mind start growing.
So it is a plant that needs patients, you know, and that's
not unusual for woody plants. They have to put on a lot more cells
than a herbaceous plant like a tomato would. So you said the key word
woody, and I think that's why it's as slow as it is. So
you know, a little bit more patience. Fortunately, you live in a
warm climate, so even if the seedlings aren't ready to go out until fall,
they'll still have a nice long time to get established in your garden.
And you know, even though it takes time and work and effort, there's
always something really nice to looking at a plant that eager from seed and going.
You know, I agree that I held that when it was just a
tiny little baby seed. Hang in their bill A way to go. If
you have a question for us, we'd love to help you. Just email
us help at Gardening Simplified on air dot com or visit our show notes Gardening
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going to take a break. When we come back, we have a guest,
Megan Mattie, plant reader for Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs, so please
stay tuned. The Gardening Simplified Show is brought to you by Proven Winners Color
Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens have been trialed and tested
for your success so you enjoy more beauty and less work. Look for Proven
Winners Color Choice Shrubs the distinctive white container at your local garden center. Welcome
back to the Gardening Simplified Show. It's time for branching news and no better
way to cultivate interest in plants. As a matter of fact, it's a
kick in the plants to talk to a real plant breeder, and that's what
we're doing today. Megan Mattia is joining us. She's a plant breeding manager
here at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs, and Megan, welcome to the show.
And the first thought that pops into my mind, and probably for lots
of folks who will watch and listen to this interview, is sure, you
come into work, maybe have a cup of coffee, But then what does
a plant breeder do during the day. Oh, I'm so excited to be
here, Rick, when Stacy we wear Manny has as plant breeders here.
So basically it's just everything from the day to day in the summer it is,
you know, we do grab a cup of coffee and we head right
to the greenhouse check on our seedlings that are germinating right now, you know,
and then we just start going through the trials and the evaluation what's blooming,
What are we going to look at this week? What are we going
to evaluate? What should we cross? So kind of a lot of everything.
And what's that mean when you say what should we cross? So?
I guess plant breeding is kind of the art of taking pollen from one plant
and moving it to another plant, So that is making a cross. So
we try to find and combine the best of the best. So which two
plants are going to be the best parents, or you know, which plant
has one attribute that we really like or hoping to combine it with another plant,
And so you basically act like a bumblebee. Yes, I actually do
have a shirt with this little bee. It says b the bee on it.
But what do you do that with? Are you using like tweezers or
paybrushes or how are you actually doing this? Lots of different tools depending on
the type of flowers that we were working with. The art of this is
one of my favorite favorite term or something, but the art of doing this
pollination is called emasculation. So we are basically taking off and removing all of
the anthers from the plant that will become the mother and then we have either
stored or collected pollen that we are using paintbrushes with and to collect that pollen
and then just dap it onto the stigma of that flower. And by emasculating
or taking the pollen off of the mother plant, you're making sure that it
doesn't pollinate itself, correct and then it would just have So you're trying to
get those different genetics in there, and that's how you get a new,
interesting, proven winners color choice Shoub exactly. Yeah. So like after you
have that cup of coffee in the morning, then is it like, oh,
okay, let's see, wouldn't it'd be cool if we took Now there's
probably a process, right, you know, thankfully we do have a lot
of like creative freedom here. Sometimes some times it is just that like oh
wow, I wouldn't it be great? You know, you're wandering the green
os. Wouldn't it be great if we could just cross these two plants?
Or those ideas are coming with us? You know, at all times we
do have strategic planning crosses. Um you know, a timy, a planning
period in the winter where we do sit down, we look at all of
the crosses we made last year, what worked, what didn't work, and
then UM set forth a plan for the following year. So it's a little
bit of both. We do got that on the spot freedom and that's kind
of our favorite. Yeah, my grandson Max likes to watch this cartoon,
The Stinky Dirty Show or something like that. It's a garbage struck and a
dump truck, you know, and they get into all kinds of trouble.
But then you know, at a certain point in the show they start asking
the question what if, what if? And what if we tried this?
And I would think that's to a degree what a plant breeder does, right,
that's a lot. Yeah, I'm very familiar with that show too.
I have a four and what is it stinky? I don't know whatever,
the Stinky and Dirty Show, but it is. Yeah, And sometimes,
you know, we make those crosses and these broad ideas and they fail and
they don't work, um and then typically that is just more motivation to try
again to dig deeper us. So maybe why that cross didn't work, And
sometimes it's just the wrong combination of parents within that species, So trying another
cultivar that cross might work. So what to you interested in plant breeding?
That's a good question. So I was. I started working at a Greenhouse
when I was fourteen, and my favorite part of the year was always the
new varieties, like what are we going to get this year? And then
as we started getting customers for that season, like the very the customers that
were in the know would come in and like ask for these specific cultivars,
and it's like, oh, wow, how do they know about these?
How did these cultivars get created? Wouldn't it We need to be that person
to make those cultivars. And then my interest really peaked in my undergrad my
very first semester there, I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to work
on a breeding program with their ornamental flower professor Neil Anderson. So, so
what did you major? So if someone wants to become a plant breed or
sort of, what does that path look like from a school perspective? Sure?
So, um, A lot of the horticulture programs and universities are are
kind of going away. But I have a horticulture degree with a science emphasis.
So a lot of universities that still have horticulture degrees, they're either you
can go landscape or turf science, or in my case, I went science.
You could also follow the same path by going for botany. So how
long? So you've been here improven winners color choice shrubs for ten years,
right, eleven years? Ten years and the first plants that you created are
just starting to come out over the last couple of seasons. So how long
does it take to know? Of course I know it's going to be different
for annuals, fruit shrubs, etc. How long does it take to develop
a new plan? So, like you said, it does vary. On
average, Our average shrub takes somewhere between six to eight years before it,
you know, from cross to selection to actual introduction, So six to eight
years from physical cross is what I would say, and that's going to vary.
We've had a few plants that are on the docket we've had for fifteen
years. It took them fifteen years to get introduced. So a lot of
that depends on the probability of that plant. So we are really lucky we
are breeding clonally propagated crops. So once we create that one individual that has
it all, we are then able to take clones off of it and propagate
it. So usually one of the biggest hindrances and slows down that introduction is
getting up quantity to actually bring to market, right, So patience is important,
and who wants a great new plant that you can't get because there's only
get ten of them out there, and then you create a nightclub effect.
Everybody wants it and they can't get it, and then they lose interest and
walk away. We don't We definitely don't want that. So what do you
think is the hardest part of being a plant breeder? I guess, so
it's two to two different things. The biggest one is waiting, Like we're
always waiting, So you're waiting for that one set is seed to germinate,
You're waiting for your first flower, You're waiting, you know, for your
next pollinations, you're waiting for that introduction. By the time you make a
choice to introduce a plant, you know, we're waiting three years before we
see it hit market. So waiting, I would say, is kind of
one of the hardest parts of it. And then the other thing is is
the seasonality of it. So right now you're making crosses while you're also selecting
seedlings, and you're also evaluating plant So June, July, August are kind
of ore. We're doing a lot of things right now. Well, not
least of all because you work with so many hydranges, right, which brings
up a point, so we talk hydranges. So being a plant breeder,
I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you if you have a
favorite plant. Is there are a favorite plant that you like to work with
and a favorite plant for you person for your home garden. My favorite plant
that I like to breed in house is by Gilia or dear Villa. Those
plants, those flowers are really great to emasculate. They're large, you can
work with them, you don't need a magnifying glass. The anthers are big,
so they're just really fun to work with. Pollinations, you know,
fast germination easy, and there's just a lot of variation there, and you
see it at a young age, so you see it at the time those
seedlings germinate because you know you've got yellows and green leaves and purple leaves and
everything all in that tray, so fast reward kind of breading crop. My
favorite hydrangea plant that I have developed is let's Dance sky View, Oh beautiful,
and that just Hydrangea is one of those things where you know at first
when I was asked to breed Hydrangea maca. I was kind of, you
know, taken it back, like, what are we going to do?
They're so beautiful, so much work has already taken place in that genus.
But sometimes it is like just putting in the right selection criteria that makes it
interesting. So we have a very what I would consider a very stringent selection
criteria. They need to bloom coming out of a frost in the sea,
you know, in the spring, they need to rebloom, So we're testing
for that. They don't, you know, so more than just developing a
pretty plant. If you needed to develop a pretty plant, I've got like
three thousand we could go pick right now. So I'm surprised, Like,
do you find it difficult when you do have to reject plants that are really
pretty but don't meet all those criteria for performance that we have improvement ers,
colored choice shrubs. Are you just like used to that and kind of hardened
to just say like, oh, oh, well, that's a funny question,
Stacy. I mean, you know, I feel like it would be
hard for me because you know, when you're a plant lover, it's just
like you see the good qualities in something and even though they're not necessarily what
we're looking for from a commercial's perspective or to make you know, home gardeners
successful, you're still like, oh, this is so beautiful and it's never
going to see the light of day. We get attached. We do get
attached, especially after we name something. So we name so thing, we
know it, we go through the trial, and you know it has a
bad trade, a negative trade. So I've got one plant that comes to
mine. Internally we call it raven claw. No, that will never be
a trade name. But gorgeous, gorgeous hydrangea plants, got black stems,
and but it's floppy and it doesn't reboom very well. So it's a bad
plant. We don't want to give you guys bad plants. But sometimes bad
plants become good mothers, so we do get to keep them around, so
we get to breed with them and try to improve those qualities. Fascinating,
This is really fascinating. You know, I can see why I'm not a
plant breeder. I would. I don't think i'd have the patience for it.
I have tremendous respect for what you do. You know, I think
i'd show up on a Thursday morning and say, you know, let's try
crossing a barberry with a hydrange of today and see what happens. You know,
make a Frankenstein plant. It's alive, you know, and it doesn't
work that way. I mean there's a real discipline to breeding plants. Yeah,
they're definitely is. And if you could cross the hydrant end a barbary
wreck, you would be I mean, you are famous. So would we
talk about it that way? Like, Okay, you know, I'm just
taking the pollen from one plant and putting it on another. I mean,
I know that's a vast oversimplification of what a plant breeder does, but that
is the essence of it. So, you know, a lot of people
like to experiment with that kind of thing at home. Do you have any
advice for people who are maybe dabbling and plant breeding at home? Keep at
it, have fun with it, Go ahead and do that. You know,
that is essentially that It's a very interesting part. That's the art of
it. That's the design, making the cross, growing out those seedlings.
The next stage that is usually the most difficult then, is that selection phase.
So you've got a population now of a hundred of your babies. You
made them, You made, you put that pollen, and you made that
cross. All hundred of your babies are probably great to you, but now
you've got to narrow it down to just choosing one or two. And that's
the continued art in plant breeding is the selection. So out of those hundred
babies that you get from across you know, I know this is like a
Mandela Mandela Villian Mendelian genetics kind of question. But so how many of those
hundred seedlings, just using as an example, would you expect to be the
same or very similar to their parents? How much variation would you maybe expect
to get in that cross. Again, it depends on genus. Some plants
are extremely what you'd call heterozygous, so you're going to get a huge diversity
in that population. And some plants you might get almost what looks like row
Run plants, where they're almost all identical and you're only getting differences in heights.
So again it's it's by plant. It's also you know, maybe by
how inbred or hybridized a particular mother might be as well. So if our
listeners want some Megan Mattie developed plants in their gardens, you said, let's
Dance sky View is one of your favorites. What are some other ones that
you've developed that are on the market now. Probably my second favorite would be
Wine and by Gilio Wine and Spirits. So that's new this mail order this
year in garden centers next year, Yeah, yep, And I think it
has hit a couple of garden centers this year. I was getting reports on
so I was looking really good. And then my third tier would be the
Lagerstromia's Center Stage Red is my favorite one, but the whole Center Stage series
is great. And if you aren't familiar with Lagerstromia, that's crape myrtle,
And I know that's a species you've been working on a lot because you're trying
to develop a very dark foliage black crape myrtle that didn't get powdery mail do
and have all the liabilities that some of the other ones on the market had
exactly, and you know, and typically it's more of a southern crop for
us. So it's really fun for me to breed southern crops in a northern
environment because we put even you know, tougher selection criteria on onto those plants.
All the work you do, Megan is fantastic. Her name is Megan
Mattie. She's a plant breeding manager here at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs.
And Megan, you must really, truly sincerely, you must really take pride.
It must be enjoyable to see a plant get to the point where it
makes it to market and people are enjoying the wonderful characteristics and benefits of the
plant that you saw a long time ago as you developed the plant. It's
got to feel great. It's an absolute dream. Definitely, Yeah, love
it, love it. Thanks for joining us on the show. Megan,
it's been great, Avenue, Thank you, Thank you really nice to here.
Wow, that was great. That was so inspiring, interesting, and
what a wonderful person. I am proud to call her a colleague and friend.
And we want to thank you all for listening. If you have any
questions, don't forget to reach out to us at Gardening Simplified OnAir dot com.
Thank you to Rick, thank you, thanks Adriana, thanks to Megan
who joined us, and thanks to you for listening. Hope you have a
great week.