A Goofy Movie: Parenting Styles & Parenting Teens

Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster movies and psychoanalyze them.
My name is Bernie Brownfield and I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by
Ben Stover, individual therapist, Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists. We're
all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists who practice out of Chicago.
Even though we are licensed mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for entered
himent purposes and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture in all forms.
Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists, we aren't your
therapist. If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find a local
mental health provider. We're keeping that one in. We're keeping alight. He
couldn't tell from that noise we were. We were doing a goofy movie today
and we're starting it out appropriately, which is laughing our asses off. All
right, y'all, So we're talking about beloved nineties Disney classic, a goofy
movie. Um. Today we're gonna be talking about parenting styles and parenting a
teenager specifically. UM, if you've never seen a goofy movie. Um,
I'm going to assume you were not a child in the nineties. Um,
But it is about um Goofy goof I assume it's his Christian name. I
think it's the only thing we can go by truly. So he's got high
hopes, you guys, So he's got sun um. But so Goofy and
his son, Max Goof Maximilian goof Um, they are in a tumultuous time
in which Max Goof is becoming a teenager and he is sort of rejecting his
dad and we're wanting to be his own person. And then because of that,
goof Feet tries to take them on a family vacation, just the two
of them to reconnect, and like a typical nineties movie, shenanigans ensue involving
a pop star, a hock girl named Roxanne and two rocksan members of another
family, Pete and Peage. So with that, let's jump into it.
So parenting styles, So what do we mean when we say parenting styles.
We mean that there are a couple set ways that you can choose to interact
with the team as a dominant communication style, which an interaction style which some
people choose one or the other, and it can be quite the cesspool of
discussions between friends, family members, intergenerational communication styles, and the lovely place
called the Internet where a great deal of parent and mom shaming takes place.
Yeah, where everyone thinks that they Yeah, everyone thinks they know exactly the
right way to parent, and it's usually in direct opposition to how they were
parented. If I had to make any bets, yeah, or in direct
mimicry of it. Yes. True. So there are four main known parenting
styles within psychology. So there's authoritative, authoritarian I hate that those two sounds
so similar, it's so and then there is permissive and neglectful. So when
we open up in this movie, we'll kind of talk about the different styles
as we go. But as we open up with this movie, would you
consider Goofy's parenting style to be a bit permissive, because I think permissive is
the parent that kind of goes along with whatever the kids do, very just
like Las Fair. You know, kids make the rules and the parents kind
of just follow suit and don't really enact punishment anything like that. We don't
get a ton of about the Paris in the beginning, but that was kind
of flavor I was getting. I don't think we have enough information. Honestly,
I think, based by Max's behavior, he does seem to fear authority,
but he also seems to think he can do whatever he want. So
I think it's likely that Goofy lend or leaned more towards the permissive side,
especially because we see the way Max reacts to when Goofy switches on him.
Yeah, which usually works super great by the way, to just switch a
parenting style with no warning. But yeah, I think it's it's a fair
that Goofy was a more permissive type parent. I think that's probably accurate,
but I don't think we get enough information to say for sure. Sure,
yeah, I feel the same way. I feel like I feel like he
definitely leans towards permissive, but it's really hard to tell because we don't get
we don't get a really good view of it in that like ten seconds before
he goes to school, or a couple of minutes before he goes to school.
Yeah, Like, I think what I noticed that made me even just
use this as an example as we're talking about parenting styles is when Goofy comes
into his bedroom the very beginning of the movie, and he's very like can
you please clean up your clothes? You know, I've kind of told you
a few times and really appreciate your way to drive you to school. And
Max is pretty rude, like very like dismissive and rude. He doesn't seem
to feel swayed by Goofy's expectations. It seems like he just kind of railroads
past. Goofy grants that he is in a hurry to do his hijack of
the school assembly, right, but it doesn't seem like he has any He's
not worried about Goofy in an authority way, an authoritative way, no,
Yeah, I mean Max is pretty preoccupied throughout the whole film with his own
agenda, So, you know, inferential reasoning would say, at least did
this small window of time. It seems likely he has a permissive parent,
yeah, which I think is also not a typical of single parentdom. You
know, I think what we do know about Goofy is that he's a single
dad. Like we were talking about before that we started recording. There is
neither hind nor hair, nor mention, nor photo nor tear running down the
cheek reference to Max's mother, if she even exists. I don't know how
that works in tune world. Maybe she just came to be Max's came to
be. But so we have no idea like how long Goofy has been parenting
by himself, if it's a newer thing, if it's an older thing,
if it's been Max's whole life, you know, because where I'm going with
that is that would be interesting to me help with the parenting style part of
it, because if it's just been just been the two of them, you
know. I think that also can create a more permissive parent just because it
becomes We've talked about this in other episodes. It can create more like a
peer to peer kind of energy at home instead of a parent child dynamic,
which can kind of organically create more permissiveness, not necessarily anyone's being a bad
parent. I think that can just be like an organic evolution, especially as
kids get older. Yeah, and it can be you can have more diffuse
boundaries because of in meshment, because that's they're literally each other's whole world.
And you can see Goofy is doing a lot of doting on Max and taking
care of him, and even admits later in the movie that he's kind of
having trouble with him growing up and not needing him to do all of those
things anymore that he's got his own life, and Goofy obviously takes Max on
a road trip that Goofy might have done at a vastly different age, yeah,
Max on Yeah, a vastly different age, or the total misunderstanding of
who Max is. Because I think also something we noticed we I guess I
inferred right away is that Goofy and his father seem to have a lot more
in common than Max and Goofy, and seem like Goofy was having a hard
time recognizing that his relationship with his dad, Grandpa Goofy can be different than
Max's relationship to him. Yep. And also the thing that all parents seem
to forget, which is hard because we try to teach our children to survive
the world we understand. But I know I've mentioned this before where there's a
Hebrew proverb I phone doing some research for all Right article I wrote that said
don't confine your children to your own learning or they're of a different time,
which I think is really powerful for adults to remember. And this movie highlights
really well, which you know, Goofy is seeing this like possum Pals thing
that probably was the peak of awesomeness in nineteen sixty two. Yeah, those
animatronics were really popping, which you know, I did it. I appreciated
the meta humor of Disney making fun of themselves here, but you know,
the animatronics would have been like the peak of technology then. And then for
Max it's like, wow, this is bad. And also I'm not six,
but parents have to adjust to like the idea of just because like this
was the coolest thing ever when you were young, does not mean it is
still the coolest thing ever. I think that's I'm going to be biased here
in musical taste, but I think that's why there has been very limited guitar
hero development for a long time, because the Boomer generation did nothing but like
try to introduce it, indoctrinate us into their music, and nobody could ever
be better than that. And I wonder how many people got discouraged and did
their own thing like circuit bending and learning to make digital music and EDM and
all kinds of things that boomers couldn't do. And then we have very very
few guitar heroes in our generation compared to what they had kind of skipped a
generation. Like there's some zoomers who are picking up guitarist and doing some wild
shit with eight stringers and creating a whole new sound in style. But when
parents fail to realize that your generation's thing and time common goal, they fail
to connect with where their kid is at. And like you're saying, who
is Max, I don't, Goofy doesn't know at all. Yeah, And
I think because of that then it allows the situation where Max gets in trouble
at school, right, and Goofy panics, you know, he panics that
he is but Max is going down the wrong road. And I think that
also says a lot about maybe how much he's really paying attention to Max as
his own person is like an autonomous person that he's so easily shaken by.
This seems to be a blip of an incident, you know, with Max's
reputation. I mean, I'm making kind of an assumption, but Max and
strikes me as a kid that gets in like repeated trouble or like the principle
knows his name kind of. He's not like a Marty McFly. I guess
that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I would agree with that, I would
agree with that. He doesn't seem like it seems like this thing that he
did was really like it's a romantic gesture in some ways, is really what
it was. And so it doesn't seem like he's the kid who's in the
principal's office all the time. No, No, I doubt it. Yeah,
I agree, I don't think he could. It didn't seem like there
was familiarity with him in the office. They all looked pretty pretty perturbed to
be there. Yeah. And also poly shure, because he's just poly sure.
Anytime he shows up, he's poly sure. Yeah. And also with
how anxious PJ was to do it felt more like kids who don't really break
the rules that often. No, I mean, we'll talk about PJ in
a minute. And also probably why he was so anxious. But you know,
I think what we see happen with Goofy as a parent is not a
typical to what I've seen when I've worked with parents of adolescence, where they
can have a more permissive kind of like hands off parenting style, which of
themes works like if a kid's like a pretty good kid just on their own,
like you don't really have to be on them too much, and then
something happens, and then the parents become anxious about how they're parenting and what
kind of child will adult there, like they're growing into the world, and
then they try to like rapidly switch tactics, and it makes a mess of
a lot of stuff, because one thing you said been earlier is that it
does not do well to unexpectedly swing the pendulum parenting style and then think it's
gonna fly for a number of reasons. One, the kid's going to be
confused about where the hell this parent is coming from. Right, They're gonna
either like some well, nactually I was gonna say they're gonna submit, But
I really see the very often usually what I would see as the kid's buck
and they're like, what the fuck is this? Why are you doing this
to me? Like like why should why am I supposed to listen to you
now? When things were used to be okay before? And honestly, when
I would do that work with families, I would not necessarily take the kid's
side, but I had to do a lot of work with the family of
like, your kid's not wrong for having this response to you. You've changed
the game. The rules to the game halfway through and then you're pissed that
the kid's just not like, oh, okay, you know that's fine.
Yeah, the kids are not just gonna go along with it, no because
I decided to change your mind. No, And it's like it's missing out
on the fundamentals of behaviorism. Hey, human beings are animals and they have
set behaviors, and there is a set phenomenon it's known as an extinction spike
when you chart out the frequencies of behaviors and then try to make an intervention.
The second you make an intervention, the behavior you're trying to change is
going to buck back against you an increase to try to get you who are
making an intervention to stop making that an intervention. Like the first time you
set a rule on a kid, they're going to test you. Yeah,
and we see that with Max immediately, especially when you do something that's radically
different, like one of the things that you always hear people talk about that
will go to hypnosis seminars for cigarettes, or people that are about to go
into rehab facilities for alcohol. You know what they're going to do the day
before they go in. They're drink a shit ton. Yeah, they're gonna
get high, they're gonna get sucked up, they're gonna drink a lot.
They have to get well before they get sick, as they say, right,
and then the ad hypnosis seminars that people go to for quitting smoking,
which I don't know how popular those are anymore, but they used they were
in the nineties when this movie is made, so it's relevant. Right.
Sure, they would people would go like before they started, even the hypnotis.
The hypnotists would tell people, Okay, all of you, you're going
to go out and you're going to smoke your last cigarette, which was actually
part of the programming because they'd go smoke like six of them and be all
fucked up. Yeah, it feels so good. And then then you've got
a natural behavior you can work with to build an association with feeling sick and
smoking. But you have to understand it when you change your behavior, when
you radically shift and try to put a hard stop to something, the first
thing is going to happen is that extinction spike the behavior and things to get
you to change are going to increase rapidly. M Yeah, and then and
I think what we're seeing goofy too. Is like he's feeling anxious, he's
starting to parent out of anxiety, and then he unfortunately goes towards a source
for parenting advice that is a poor source for parenting advice, which is Pete,
Big Whole Pete and so Pete parents and what we would call an authoritarian
style, which is that very like almost like military esque. I am the
I am the grown up, you are the kid. I'm the boss,
like in Matilda, that whole speech where it's like I am big, you
are little, I am smart, you are stupid. It's that very you
know, kids are to be seen and not heard. It is better to
be respected than loved, you know, but respect it's not really respect so
much as it's like scared up and submitted to, you know, not really
respect in my opinion. And Pete even says that he keeps using the phrase
under your thumb The most important thing kid can be is under your thumb too,
goofy. And if that's not like the motto of authoritarian parenting, I
don't know what is. Yeah, it's like that is, you know,
it's almost like and you see how he treats PJ. It's basically he wants
a little servant, you know, to who's scared of him, who listens
to him, who does what he says, and that's it. Like,
there's no trying to understand PJ as a person to make him feel loved and
secured. There's no love and affection between them. It's all authority, authority,
authority, which isn't more like that's a more old school way of parenting
that when I work with parents, especially when I worked with grandparents who are
taking over parenting, I would have to like ease them out of that style.
You know, I like, this approach is not going to do what
you think it's going to do. Yeah, you know, if we really
want to think about where the goals of your relationship with your child, because
could it have worked eventually, Yeah, but it would have been at the
total sacrifice of of Goofy's relationship with Max, which you can tell that Goofy
didn't want Yeah, nope, no he did. He really wanted a way
to continue to have the same kind of relationship with the son, but just
help him. But he just felt disconnected to him, and he was trying
to figure out how to be connected to him, and so he did the
only thing that I think that maybe the only thing his parent did to connect
to him, which just take him on a vacation. Hm. Which what's
so funny about that is that's it seems like who he kept reflecting to,
which is his father, Goofy Senior. I don't know who the name was,
but like didn't seem like an authority. I hate this an authoritarian parent.
So it is interesting. I think that's where I said, like,
I feel like that's where it's Goofy's anxiety coming out of like I'm doubting myself
a parent because I also think what's hard about him being a single parent too,
is like he doesn't have a partner to balance off of, to check
in with, to talk through, to debrief with about like, oh shit,
this thing happened with Max today at the school. How do we want
to approach it? Do we want to go hard on him? Do we
want to ground him? Do we want to try to talk to him and
understand what's happening? Do we need to switch our parenting tactic up? But
would that look like you know, he just has a vacuum, right,
and so he has no one to bounce these ideas off of. And also
no one to affirm him too, because it's also if he had a partner
and not Pete who's demeaning him. Pete's bullying. Pete is like the Biff
of this movie, just like a total bully asshole. And so of course
he's not gonna build Goofy up. He's going to immediately tear Goofy down,
and you know, and tell him you, of course you're probably a ship
parent. Of course you're probably raising a future convict like and so Goofy doesn't
have any one telling him where you're doing a good job. There's something that
we could tighten up on. But overall, we've raised a good kid.
We're good parents, we're very loving, Like he doesn't have a partner who
is building him up. And that's what's really hard about seeing a single parent
is you're just like in your own head, in your own house, especially
if you don't have good like family, friends, supports, like you really
are doing your actual best as a parent and hoping that that is correct.
M yeah, right, and which which he doesn't know. And Goofy,
you know, flat out says he doesn't really have friends, he never needed
him, or something to that effect, and that means that he's largely keeping
his own counsel and doing his best based on his parental learning. Yeah,
and his only friend is who has through work, which is Pete, who
we've already said sucks, and his boss and then his dad, Goofy's dad,
who eat like, you're right, he's using he's trying to follow the
template of that style of parenting to put a band aid on the current situation
with him in Max, right, but then listening to to Pete because he
has nobody else to listen to that he respects, so he listens to to
Pete, and Pete scares the hell out of him because the one thing that
Goofy's afraid of more than anything else is Pete losing Max. Oh Max,
Yes, yes, you're right and like and then when he looks at Max
and he sees him in a little like prison, get up right. Yeah,
he's really because then he'd be really alone. I mean, I think
he'd die in the electric chair. It's like, good God, where in
the nineties. Yeah, and he brought that up later too, Goofy does
say too, I don't want him to die in the electric chair or something
like that. Right now, it was like thinking about that because I have
a Ride the Lightning T shirt and a band named Ride the Lightning. And
Eva was looking at the back of that shirt, which has a dude in
an electric chair getting shocked, and he's like, daddy's that a skeleton.
I'm like, uh huh, I go all right, is there electricity is
like, oh, topics, We're not going to explain to a five year
old, Yeah, dark which is good. Yes, yes, baby girl,
It's a skeleton enlightning. That's it. And it's it's really hard when
I work with parents. It's really hard to get them out of parenting out
of anxiety. When something's happened. It's really hard for them to even notice
that they're parenting out of anxiety or that they're doing reassurance seeking through this change
in their parenting style. Um and ideally when they come to someone like me
or Hannah or Ben even like because I know you don't do parent coaching like
I've done in Hannah's probably done, it's like they sometimes they do. Part
of what you do is you just reassure them and try to like name the
anxiety for them in a piece apart like what is the anxiety coming into the
front seat and leaving how you're interacting with your kid and what is actual like
solid parenting, because what Goofy's trying to get to and I think he does
get there is authoritative parenting, which is the A plus like primo parenting.
That's the parenting you want to get to, which is that middle ground of
having expectations, having boundaries, having rules just because you're two people living in
a house together, if nothing else, there has to be some sense of
structure and then also listening to your kids, being receptive to them and letting
them be their own human beings. Yeah, absolutely right, which that parenting
style is you know, typically looked at as the ideal by most people in
our profession. Yes, yeah, yes, some people and other professions probably
would disagree. But creating like healthy bound yes, but also allowing people to
be themselves is generally looked one favorably by those of us in this mental health
world here, and that's likely what parent coaching will focus on is how do
you create a system of rules so you're not getting walked on by a child,
because god damn it, they will try. Yeah, which, because
I know the popular parenting that's kind of coming through right now is like gentle
parenting, And I don't I haven't read anything about it, so a lot
of what I've learned is very like anecdotal or like things here and there,
but it does seem to be more on the authoritative parenting side. And I
think the name is what's throwing a lot of people and making them think it's
like permissive parenting. That it's like you're an adult getting on your hands and
knees for your kid and being like, oh no, are you sad?
Well, then of course we can't do this today, my sad lovely child.
Would you like a hug and to lay down and I'll get you a
blanket and a baby cappuccino and you can watch, you know, a goofy
movie until your heart gives out, like when an actuality. What I understand
gentle parenting is is that like you very gently kind of tell a kid,
even when they're really young, you know, that's not how we're going to
do it, Like we don't hit, we don't throw, what we're going
to do this instead? What do you need? You know? Like?
So it is that that middle of like you are still telling a kid what
isn't is not Okay, what isn't is not allowed, while also trying to
communicate with them and not to shut them down. Yeah. Absolutely absolutely,
And I think that and I think that a big part of why people in
our field really look at it is because it really shows a healthy It helps
model a healthy relationship of having healthy boundaries, of asking for what you need
when you need it, of being able to and being able and being able
to in some ways follow some you know, simple rules that we there's rules
we have to follow in society. Yeah, you know, right, So,
like it only makes sense, Yeah, it only makes sense that you
are helping a child understand that in a way, in a way that isn't
trying to dominate them, yeah, or trying to them or trying for them
just to follow a rule just because you can make them follow a rule,
m right, right, or make them do things because it builds character.
Yeah yeah, yeah, which I'm sure trash He really probably thinks that he
is molding PJ into being a strong man, and like if he was soft
on him, then he's gonna be a soft a doll. Like, yeah,
Pete's definitely got out of propaganda he's buying and selling to legitimize the way
that he is treating his child. And I mean probably, if I had
to put money on it, I'm sure this is the way that Pete was
raised, you know. And so I think also when people are raised like
that and then they have a kid, it's kind of this I don't know
if I want to use word sick, but it is sort of this like,
Okay, now I finally get to take my turn of being the one
in charge like I did my I paid my dues, you know. And
so when I work with families where they come from that port of background,
a thing I have to work on with a parents have gone through that is
well, but I don't hit them. I just scream on their face.
And I'm like, that's not better because you're being slightly less horrific than you're
than you were treated or that very like, well, I turned out fine,
So this is obviously the way to go. So I think sometimes too,
when you're working with parents where you're trying to coach them into a different
parenting style, like you have to acknowledge that there's going to be a lot,
sometimes an impossible level of like resistance because it requires sometimes a lot of
acknowledgement of the way they were raised and of the potential maybe trauma they went
through. And that's hardcore, you know, for someone like Pete to admit
that what they're doing is not working. Sometimes they'd then have to admit that
something that their story of how they were raised is different, and that is
too much for some people. They will shut you down and walk out of
your office before they will go there as a shame. M Yeah, you
know a lot of I mean, it's very like when I was this doesn't
have you talked about as much, which I think is kind of the shift
that we're singing societally towards more like gentle parenting is. I used to have
to have talks with parents about whoopings when I was new to the field like
ten years ago, and I haven't had to talk about whoopings in a long
time. But like in defending it, even the kids too defending it,
Like I work with teenagers where they would defend in group that like whoopings are
good for you and that, and then I remember one time I was in
a group and we had a visiting psychologist and he said, can I make
an observation? Because they were all defending whoopings all the kids in the circle,
and he was like, you guys all got whoopings and they were like
yeah, and he's like and you're all here in this group and they're like
yeah. And he was like, hmmm, so like, how helpful are
whoopings if we're all here? Yeah? And they were like, I don't
remember what happened after that, So I don't know if everyone kind of just
collectively shut down when he made that observation. But you know, like it
is, it's been a tried and true method for a long time. Kind
of that authoritative authoritarian parenting, yep. But we also have learned that one
of the criticisms against that is that we teach children that when you are angry
or upset with someone one for not doing what you want, it is okay
therefore to hit them. Because children's minds are not complete, their brain development
is not where yours is as an adult, and no matter how hard you
try to make them think or see that the way that you do, they
are not biologically capable of it yet. So they learn things very simply.
If I get mad enough it's somebody I can hit them, then they deserve
it, and I'm right to do it. Which, if you've noticed,
as the shift towards gentle parenting goes on, we see less fights in schools.
Schoolyard fights used to be a thing all the fucking time, but as
that's slowed down, I am very curious. I mean, they also tolerate
it less in schools now too, But I think that there has been a
societal shift in how often kids just start wailing on each other. And I'm
curious to see what statistics would say about that. That would be interesting.
Oh, I won't know for like a a while now, because it's such
a new Like this generation or like the alpha's I think, are the generations
that are being like fully more raised than gentle parenting style. M h is
that what? What? Aa gen z's or alpha's? Oh? Yes,
yeah, so Ava probably is an alpha, probably and she doesn't she know
it? Oh, she knows it. She knows everywhere she goes that she
is an alpha as soon as she feels comfortable. Yes, the other thing
I wanted to point out, I can't believe I'm about to say this.
It's so funny to me how we will do these movies that are so like
wholesome and cheesy and kid movies, and I will talk about the darkest stuff,
So buckle up, everybody. Spoiler not spoiler, but trigger warning here
is Like Also, I was watching recently that Shiny Happy People documentary about the
Dugger family and the religious sect that they are from. And another thing that
I thought was really interesting that I do I guess I just it feels important
to say out loud as well, is that they're raised in like a super
obedience oriented way of life. And so a lot of the people that were
raised in that way of life in the documentary talk about how being raised in
this very authoritarian like almost like break your spirit kind of more like I think
where Pj's gone, like where he's not a fighter in response to his dad's
thing. He's just very subservient and very submissive. Is that then you can
create a kid who is more likely to be victimized by an outside party.
So I'm within the families and without the family, because you're raising someone who
does not question authority, you know, is totally obedient, totally submissive,
you know, doesn't know how to stand up for themselves, you know,
And so that is the risk you are also taking by being a very authority
obedient like compliant driven parent. Is that what kind of child are you raising?
Are you raising someone who's gonna Because I think that's where it's like unfair.
It's like they're not These kids don't know how to pick and choose which
adults they are totally submissive to. So if you raise kids to be submissive
to the parents and their adultults in their household, adults in their community,
like why would they all of a sudden when someone's being inappropriate. They're not
going to find the grit inside of them miraculously to then question for the first
time an adult and fighting as an adult. They're gonna get taken advantage of.
And so too, Like I think when I work with parents now as
well, and when I work with parents who still have a more authoritarian approach,
everybody just like take a drink whenever I can't say that word successfully the
first time. Anyway, I do talk to them about like why does it
feel so important that your kid be so compliant? And you know, and
I'm no longer as a family therapist, I'm no longer interested in aiding in
creating submissive kids. And I think when I first started in the field,
that was more of the flavor like creating kids who are mindful, but mindful
in the old school version of the word, which is mind your parents learn
how to behave be quiet, and be good. And now I have more
of a holistic thought process of like we want kids to obey structure because,
like you were saying ben Like or Panna that we're in a society where there
are rules, right and expectations, but we also don't want to make them
so quote unquote good that they can't that we break their spirit. Yeah.
No, well, I mean if you look at the difference of kids across
parenting styles, you can tell who feels like they have some space to do
things and who doesn't. In this movie shows like a great contrast between Max
feeling like he has enough in him to let his creativity shine and make something
happen, and PJ, who's terrified to do so. Yeah, PJ doesn't
know who he is at all and Max, Max is pretty is kind of
anxious, but like when he's ready to be confident, we see that Goofy
has very obviously let him be confident being who he is, because they get
on stage at the end of this movie with the Goofy movie version of Michael
Jackson in the nineties, like that there was no bigger anything in nine Yeah,
and just do their dance and then just start dancing, and we already
saw him do it in front of the whole school. That's not gonna just
happen. You're not gonna believe you can pull some high level shit off like
that if you don't have some gumption that and reinforcement throughout your life that no,
actually your clever idea, well that can work. And you see Goofy
reinforce that. Like I forgot what exactly he said, but there's something he
says of like, well, I guess we're just gonna have to get you
on that stage. Yeah, it's very very sweet like yeah, but then
he says something alongside of like basically like if you can dream it, you
can do it. I forgot what he said, but that wasn't the first
time Max had heard that. Yeah, Goofy feels like a parent that definitely
has a lot of like aphorisms and mantras and like encouraging motivational quotes that he
probably has embroidered and pillows and cross stitched like in framed cross stitches and that
kind of thing a positive way, in a very sweet way, definitely,
But being in like I'm with you, I'm like, I don't. I
won't coach people into authoritarian status either, because it's just I don't see the
value in it. I see the value in boundary setting and limit setting,
But if you crush on one's personality out of them, yeah, you can't
possibly empower them to develop and who they need to be, and that's missing
the entire point of being a parent. I think. So we'll take a
break here and be right back. So I want to just note this in
the movie, and then we'll kind of switch into the parenting a team specifically,
which you've already been touching on. But I think where we see Goofy
make that switch is when he lets Max be the navigator and he lets him
start picking the spots along the way. I think that was a great example
of switching to that more like authoritative parenting style. When he still is like,
you're we're not going home. We're still on this trip together. They're
still expectations around how we were with each other. But and I'm recognizing that
trying to shove down what I think we should be doing on this trip.
It working, and so I'm going to allow you freedom, get to know
you and listen to you, and allow you to pick some of the stuff
that we do. And as we see in the movie that when he starts
doing that, not only does Max start having a better time, but Max
also becomes more open to the things that are specific to Goofy, like taking
him to the biggest yarn ball in the world. Right. Yeah, it's
it's so interesting that when you give a child, even a teenage version,
space to be themselves, that they're going to be more willing to let you
do the same. And I think that's a really powerful part of that journey,
where like Goofy is not acting like himself and then Max therefore like shuts
down into a shitty version of himself, and then they loosen up and become
flexible again. Yeah. Absolutely, no, no, no, I was
thinking that you know something I'm sure if said on the podcast before, but
teenagers really want to be trusted. They really want to be trusted with really
anything, and so when he hands that map over to him, it really
feels like he is. That's such a huge sign of trust, and any
teenager I think would really I don't know whether or not they'd admit it,
but they would, but they would really thrive in a position where that's an
opportunity that they have, you know, like they have a chance to have
a chance to be trusted, and Max kind of messes that up a little
bit, right, Like, there's no doubt that he doesn't mess it up.
But also that's a part of the reason why we give teenagers chances for
us to trust them, because a they need to learn to trust themselves and
be they need to make the mistakes that they're going to make with us when
the consequences are something that we have control over. That's a great point I
wrote in my notes. This is a hard lesson that Max is learning,
which is you're right, Which is that he, you know, makes kind
of a thoughtless choice or just a very self centered choice based on his hormones,
and which we know as a very developmentally appropriate thing, which is caring
a way more about your peers opinion of you than your parents and an absolutely
like antisocially level, like stepping on your parent's heart to get two good graces
with people who don't even know you and will have no impact on your life
in two to four years and so he but he's learning that hard lesson,
which is I there are other people that I have to think about when I
want to do something for myself. And you're right in that. I love
what you said, Hannah in that you know, Goofy's allowing him to learn
this lesson in the more controlled atmosphere. And I think parents lose is that
understanding sometimes, especially when they're more helicopter parents, not necessarily like dominant in
that and like the authoritarian way, but more like helicopter parents, which is
another parenting style kind of where they don't want their kids to go through any
bad experiences and so they shelter them from that outcomes. And I have to
teach them. I have to teach parents, you know, you have to
give your kids opportunities to tolerate frustration, to go through hard situations when it's
not going to be a huge risk, it's going to feel huge because when
you're that age, everything feels like the worse than it's ever happened anyone on
the faces planet Earth, you know. But in this situation, all that
max is really, all that Goofy's risking is his heart, you know what
I mean with Max, but not but in an appropriate way. Yeah,
and he is, and unfortunately he gets stepped on by a teenager, which
ends to happen when we give teenagers freedom to make decisions but are unsupervised in
that decision making process. There should be checks and balances because teenagers are supposed
to test us as parents. They're supposed to be trying to figure out what
they can do and what they can't do. And also that thing that I
mentioned with having undeveloped brains, when they get anxious or feel that their social
status is in danger, this is a phrase you will hear me say all
the time, is that their little brain turns whatever they're afraid of into a
tiger and it becomes their priority one that they need to survive and attack by
that tiger. So their brain is shifting from the logical processing side that's on
the left to the emotional reactive processing side that is on the right, and
they won't make really bad decisions because they're trying to rely on their smarts when
they're in reactive mode, which I think, I mean, I think what
we're talking about with Max too, which is very age appropriate, is like
the movie opens up with him having a bad dream that he's becoming his dad,
which is a true nightmare for any teenager that they're going to become your
their parent, but also a parent who is you know, Goofy and goofy
you know and a yucksh you know who is a ski because no offense to
Goofy. But he's not cool. I from a teenager's point of view,
like he's very vulnerable. He's very emotional in a way that I think is
sweet. He's very wholesome. He's not edgy at all. He's not cool
or trying to be cool. He's very like, um, what's that show?
Andy Black and White show? And Griffith Andy Griffith show, Like yes,
like very Andy Griffith, which is very not cool, very Disney.
And Max is a typical nineties kid trying to be cool, trying to be
edgy, wearing his hoodie, hanging out with like the weird kids. Do
you know listening Roppy is like playing air guitar the Jango jeans. Oh god,
yeah, you see it coming back now? And he's like, what,
no, No, some stuff from the nineties is good, but not
that. Don't do that. And I think what Goofy is not doing well
as well in the beginning of the movie or the first half, which I
think is also very typical and not in a bad way, just kind of
the learning curve for parents is that he doesn't want anything to do with his
dad. He doesn't want him to driving him to school, he doesn't want
to listen to the music his dad listens too. He doesn't want to do
the things his dad wants to do. I mean, I would argue that
the stuff on the trip, I'm sure there's some of it that Max actually
would be open to doing and ends up being open to doing if it wasn't
like a direct reflection of his father. Right. And so when I also
work with parents and when their kids are trying to get old or get to
this age, a really hard conversation is that they have to stop taking their
kids' behaviors personally, and that stop you will get your feelings where by your
kid a thousand percent. They can be vicious as teenagers and they want nothing
to do with you if they think you suck. But that's all age appropriate.
And when I tell parents it's don't take it personal. What I mean
is like this is a common appropriate teenage developmental moment that you could be the
most coolest parent on planet Earth and they would likely have this reaction to you.
So you can't take it personal and that it's not about you specifically as
a person. It's just the time of life. And it's actually a good
sign if you're getting some rejection from your kids and if they are more engrossed
with their peers, and that is just I mean, the new version of
this when I talk to parents is like social media, and they're also like
freef and obsessed about social media and how much their kids are on their phones
and whatever. And I tried to tell parents, I was like, I'm
like, how much were you on the landline to your friends? You know,
how much were you going to the mall? And dude, why are
you making me feel one hundred years old? Right? But I mean,
like you have to make those one to one connections to let parents know that
we were doing our own version of that behavior, which was isolation from the
family and total immersion and total caught upedness with your friends and with your peers.
And now the Internet is the mall if you will. Parents just don't
understand. I don't know what to tell you. They just don't understand Will
Smith was right, and so I think. But just even like the power
struggle in the car over the music, you know, all those things,
I think that is that thing where parents will struggle to let go. Yeah,
you know, and not they're trying to make their kid a little kid
again and you can't do it. Sorry, But yeah, that doesn't go
backwards irates. It's just so appropriate for kids to rebel and push back and
tests, just like Max does in the movie where like he's got his own
agenda, Because kids have their own agenda and they're supposed to be trying out
their own power in the world. They're supposed to be doing that. They're
supposed to be figuring out how they can use their skills plus the things that
the parents have taught them to survive the world. That's where that proverb comes
in that I love so much and I almost want to put it on my
wall in my office. So people remember when we're having conversations about teenagers being
shit heads, is hey, kids are You can't keep them locked into whatever
your perception of the world is because their world's entirely different. Yeah, our
parents did not understand that if you wore the same pair of jeans to school
two days in a row, you were going to get lit up. And
they didn't understand that if you didn't have Jordan's, you were getting lit up,
and that if you had the wrong Jordan's, you were getting lit up.
And if you had Jordan's, no, you're gonna get your ass beat.
For the Jordans. Well, they understood that one. And but going
back to what you were saying, Hannah about the trust thing is I think
also something I really liked, which I do think is important with parenting a
teen is when, even though unfortunately Goofy has proven wrong, when Pete tries
to undermine, which he does several times in the movie, trying to undermine
the Max and Goofy dynamic, which I would I'd be curious with Pete,
like why can't you leave them alone? Anyway? Like lady doth protest too
much? If you really think where you're doing is correct, why are you
so perturbed by other people doing it differently? And when he tells Goofy Amata
that he knows that Max is being, you know, deceitful, I do
like that Goofy says like, I'm going to choose to trust Max, and
he really decides to keep trusting him until he gets definitively proven wrong by Max.
Right. And I really liked that moment because Goofy was trying to give
him the opportunity to pleasantly surprise him, because there's a very differ version of
that story where he could have just laid in to Max and been like,
I can't believe you, YadA YadA, And because what I think he really
did, which we were just talking about, is he let Max sort of
experience the natural consequences of making a bad decision, of making a selfish decision,
because you can see right away Max, well, he's conflicted the whole
time, and then right away he's like, oh no, And that feeling
is how you learn, Like Max would would learn a bajillion times more from
that experience of Goofy kind of swerving onto the road and just like taking a
breath away from him. That feeling will stay with Max way longer as like
a core memory than if if Goofy had just recreated like the power struggle dynamic
between them, and then Max could get defensive and he could say, I
don't know what you're talking about. You know, it would have been,
it could have easily fallen apart and Max wouldn't have learned the lesson. But
this way, Goofy was letting him just learn from this situation and really feel
the discomfort, and that discomfort is what stays with us and helps us learn.
Oh, I see, I thought I saw that different. I think,
I mean, ultimately that was the outcome. I don't disagree with that,
but I think Goofy was being passive there. Oh, I think he
was being who was being permissive like I think he was not building up the
courage to confront Max, even though it was quite obviously as demonstrated by his
visual disruption or I think that the visible disruption in his being not the map
too. So he knew for sure that Max was being just like you know,
de zeitful or secretive. Oh yeah, he knew, he knew,
and he was disappointed. And but I think the had it felt more deliberate
than he was doing that he was, it seemed to me, which is
just my interpretation, right, it could be wrong, is that Goofy was
not demonstrating enough assertiveness there. He didn't need to come in and blow Max
up, but it was obvious, like he already knew, and he was
extremely disappointed in distress, and he came in and just like laid down destitute.
That reminded that PJ was still there. Yeah, but I think he
was being like his typical non confrontational self and like letting it kind of eat
at him, which can happen when there's too much of that permissive parenting style
as much that buddy buddy things like they're not taking on the role of parent
actively enough in situations like that where they know they're being wrong with then they
won't confront the child and it eats them up until they bottle it up and
explode, which is basically exactly what happened the way I saw it. Yeah,
because Goofy just like I really felt like he was I really felt like
he knew that his son. I really felt like he was giving his chance,
his son a chance to tell him, and that he was giving him
a chance to make a different decision. Oh yeah, I agree with that.
I don't Yeah, I don't whether or not it was him being too
anxious to bring it up to Max, I don't know. I feel like
he was trying to give him as a chance. Well, that I agree
with I think it was after it became clear and then like goofy, rather
than like confronting it immediately. It was like losing his shit. I mean,
I definitely hoping, hoping, hoping, hoping, absolutely agree that's what
I was thinking. I definitely see where his sort of like willful optimism.
It's almost like a coping mechanism right presented in that space as well of like,
I have to believe that Max is a good boy who wouldn't do this
to me until like I'm aggressively confronted with the fact that he's like proving me
wrong about this, like that he's not just like the good boy that I
want him to be. I did like that, which I don't think this
is necessarily his intention, but I just want to point this out. I
liked that he pulled the car over and he made space. He like went
and made his own space for a Max. You know, I think that's
always a triad and true parenting strategy, which is, if you're too heated,
take a breath. You don't have There's very few things in life that
you have to do right then, that you have to approach right then the
on time you really have to do like immediate reactionary stuff is like when kids
are really small because they struggle to like they just don't have like the the
uh what's the word looking for, Like they not the short term memory,
but they like things will lose meaning really quickly that they don't have a connection.
Yeah, object permanence um. But once kids get older, obviously by
Max's age, like you can you can let them sweat it while you figure
out what you're gonna do, and I think you can. Yeah. And
the old term for that, which is bad because it goes back to whopping,
is like don't hit when you're angry. Don't spank when you're angry because
you'll hit too hard. And I would say switch up the hit the spank
part with parent, like, don't parent when you're too angry unless it's an
emergency, um, because you're not gonna parent thoughtfully. You're gonna parent out
of your own emotional reaction means and empty the garbage. Can your kids and
the dog right, yeah, get out of my Yeah. Yeah, So
I did like that. He pulled over and he and he took a breather.
They like looked over the cliff and he was like, I'm at to
be by myself and then I mean honestly and also too, like this sounds
a little more nefarious, it can be a good learning experience. Let the
kid kind of sit in their own ship for a little bit, you know
what I mean, and Stu and and that you're not gonna take that way
from them right away. That's a learning experience as well. Of like you
know, I'm not gonna, like I said earlier, I'm not going to
save you from this unpleasant situation. And then they had to you know,
Florida River and then have that really hard conversation in which no mother was mentioned.
Oh I can't get over that all nothing just never never in a goof
trip, never anything like for real, Like I think, do you think
that um goofs like procreate lag worms and like maybe one day he like really
hard and like Max came out like an egg. I don't know that I
want to consider that as possibility at at this moment in time. I can
tell you that right now, I will say Max, but I don't know.
I mean to make so I make fan art. So I make a
fan art of that. Don't don't don't do that. Thank you. Um,
I apologize to everyone listening for whatever is going to show up on our
social media pages because Brittany dessessed for that. And if you throw up in
your mouth, just mail it in a little bag to Brittany. Oh no,
I that no. Um, but Goofy's a dog. He's a dog.
Yeah, I mean yes, technically yes, but also Pluto's a dog.
And they don't have the same they don't have the same like way about
the world. No, no, they don't same personhood. Um. But
I would say they have that hard conversation at the river, and I think
that was also Goofy learning you know that Max is his kid, not his
friend. Like maybe they can become friendly, like become friends as Max gets
older, but you know, it's that hard thing for Goofy as well.
I like, your kid is not your best friend. They're not supposed to
be your best friend. Sorry. I found people out there who say things
like I gave birth to my best friend. Stop and go make a same
age peer. Pause this podcast and go make a same age peer. And
then when you've made a friend and so. But they have that good heart
to heart where I think they both acknowledge that their relationship isn't working the way
that it's working, and then you're right, like I think you mentioned this,
Hannah. As soon as they come to that realization, Goofy's right on
board, you know. I think he's such a great parent to Max,
and he really lets him flourish and goes with him to Los Angeles, and
I like that he doesn't he doesn't become totally punitive as well once Max discloses
everything yea and tells the truth and tells him blah bosan. I think also
what Goofy does really well in parenting a teenager but a kid of any age
is he's like, he doesn't get stuck on what Max has done wrong.
He's I think the first thing he says is, oh my god, you
are like have a crush on a girl. Yeah, And I think I'm
wonderful, you know. And he really does a great job of of paying
attention to what the kid thinks is important, what Max thinks is important.
So many really does immediately like he does not even though he's been upset with
Max. Soon as he gets a reason for the dev behavior he in couples
and family terms, he turned he leaned or what would turn towards m Yeah,
I heard this really great quote from a not great referral like reference source,
but I'm still the quote from her. He's like a YouTube person.
And she did say, though, if your kid does something that is out
of if your kid gets in trouble and that's out of character for them,
then something's wrong. If getting in troubles out of character for your kid,
then something is wrong. And so I think Goofy kind of exemplifies us in
this movie, which by this point in the movie where instead of getting hung
up on my kid made a mistake and fucked up and did something really stupid
and bad, he instead is like curious about how he got there, why
it's important to him, you know. And I think that's something that adults
don't paid enough attention to as well. Is that, and I think you
brought this up earlier then, is that kids have these really important things and
they're important to them. Don't worry about if it's relative to you and whether
you think it's important or not. You know something when I worked exclusively with
teenagers, something I had to say a lot is to the adults in the
mix is if it's important to them, it's important, and that's it.
Like, yeah, me telling stupid or irrational or silly is like demeaning.
It's shutting them down, it's invalidating, and it's going to make them want
to tell me to fuck off or just not talk to me ever again.
And so if you want your kids not to talk to you ever again about
anything real, you can. You can make fun of what they like and
what they're into and why they think something is important. But instead, like
Goofy is full in and he does the powerline thing, I think, goes
to the concert because he recognizes this is important to Max. You know,
whether I think it's silly or not, is inconsequential, doesn't make it doesn't
matter. Yeah, m no, it doesn't. It doesn't. And parents
have to realize that that whatever is important to the kids, whether you know,
for the generation that slime was like the biggest thing, Like these kids
are making slime. When I worked at my first PHP, we had to
ban silly bands because of the kerfuffle, the internal drama that was occurring due
to silly bands and how important they were to kids, right, I mean
think about for us. For us, it was POGs, Like how long
before POGs got banned at your school? You know, they eventually got banned
it and right because you're because such a deep cut reference POGs. I don't.
I don't think I remember what got banned where I was, or maybe
I didn't care, or maybe I didn't have one. Maybe that's what it
was. Anyway, definitely things that we're silly. Yeah, like I were
like for no reason. Yeah, Tomagotchi's uh Pokemon cards for the kids a
little bit younger than us. M. Yeah, Hannah, you might have
been just a little bit too old for POGs. M. They also were
not cool. They were literally just like cardboard discs that I think there was
a game associated with them, but mostly people just collected them. No,
no, there's a game, and you'd like you you know there was a
game, but I don't know a single person you want to play it.
Having cogs, people knew how to play where the fights would start it because
the way the game was supposed to be played was that the things you flipped
over if you won, you got the other people shop marbles. Yeah,
like modern day marbles. Basically marbles are better. But it was yeah,
it was. It was terrible and I got banned immediately because and I might
have been micromachines for you, who knows in high school not high school?
No, no, it would have been like junior high grade school, not
not high school. Yeah, but yeah, the just the ridiculous things.
M Well, is there anything else you want to say about parenting a team
or specifically Max and Goofy's relationship before we head into treatment. That's just very
important to create space, create space to let the kid develop and be who
they're going to be. You guide them, you encourage them, but you
also create space to let them have their own identity because they're gonna do it
with or without you, and they're gonna do it with your knowledge or without,
but they're still going to become whoever they are. And the more space
they have to talk to you and the more willing you are to be like
Goofy And like you're saying, Brittany, if your kid is suddenly doing something
deviant, like there's a reason for it. Yeah, I woudn't just decide
to be a dick one day. No. I mean, if your kids
are always a dick, well then that's a different discussion of something more right.
But if your kids all of a sudden in trouble, like something's wrong,
something's wrong if they're demonstrating a change in behavior, find out what it
is before going on a punishment spree or just assuming that they're like an asshole,
are going to get the electric chair? Now? Yeah, I mean,
I think the best thing Goofy says in this movie, says to Pete
like, maybe I should back off. And he was right. He backed
off and still had expectations of backed off, found that middle ground and it
went great. Right, Goofy. There's the other thing parents need to remember
is to be yourself. Yeah, you're right. Goofy doesn't never try to
be cooler. He doesn't start like wearing j Go jeans and like listening to
hard rock music like he goes along with what Max likes. But he's also
not trying to change himself. Well, he does trying to change. That's
where the problem comes in. That's the you know, the mcguffin of the
movie, right, is that he starts trying to be like um, be
like Pete. I guess what I'm more I mean is like he's not trying
to be like Max, Like he's not trying to be a teenager and relate
to him like that. Oh no, is what sometimes parents do as well.
Right, you're absolutely right, you know, like Amy Poehler and Mean
Girls. Oh yeah, be a cool mom mom, which also did not
work in that movie, or kids also distill didn't like her. All right,
well you will take a break here and then come back for treatment.
All right, I go first. Still, like I mentioned, I think
I would want to work with Goofy because I think he needs some confidence building
around his parenting. I think he's got the goods as we saw in this
movie. I just think he needs yeah, how's it of reinforcement because he
just doesn't have a good support system. I would also help him work on
getting a support system. They do reference Donald Duck. I don't know if
Max was making a joke at his expense or if he's really friends with Donald
Duck. Maybe so because also there's a Mickey Mouse phone that Max uses,
so I don't understand the world of Disney and how weaves in Mickey Mouse.
Mickey is you know, hitchhiking. So yeah, see, just a celebrity
in this whatever, But I would encourage Jerry Seinfeld. He's a celebrity,
but nobody thinks he's a celebrity nor like a celebrity, And so I think
with Goofy wanted to teach him coping schools for anxiety, because that doesn't just
go away, like we talked about, like there's the magic of movies where
they act like whatever ails, yeah, gets fixed within that tight ninety minutes
to two hours. So just because he and Love Disney in the nineties,
man, they were on their ship at this point. Yeah, so his
anxiety is not just going to magically disappear by the end of this movie.
Dixaus he had a good trip with Max at the end, Like I think
he would still need to learn how to differentiate when he's feeling anxious and parenting
out of anxiety. Maybe learning if he's feeling in his body, you know,
if he's like getting those intrusive thoughts about Max in his future, Like
what I think, Like he's someone i'd probably teach cognitive distortions too, So
when we're catastrophizing, when we're fortune telling, we're mind reading all that stuff,
and what we can do instead to help with that thought challenging techniques.
And then like I said, I think he just needs because he hasn't had
a partner, you know, I think he just needs I think that's the
benefit of even though I do individual therapy with adults, where my background is
like a child therapist and a family therapist comes in handy because then I can
help parents with this part of it and do a little psycho education about Max,
Like I would be someone who would say, you know, he's actually
at a very appropriate age to be doing this stuff and normalizing things. Because
also if Goofy is more is more isolated socially, it makes me curious if
he's other than Pete and PJ, if he's seeing other parent and kid dynamics.
So I think also what's hard about that is then you don't know if
what you're going through is unique to you or if it's like every teenagers does
this, So I think I don't know. He'd be someone who, you
know, wh where he would really flourish. I think he would flourish in
like a parenting group, like a group of like parents who get together like
potluck style, like book club style, and chit chat like I used to
run a parents support group at one of the jobs I had, And I
think he would flourish in a space where he got to like make a dish.
Nick A casserole, take it to someone's house and like and just like
have like a group of friends, a group of other parents that he can
chit chat too about. I think he'd even do well if it was in
just a group of moms, like just a chit chat too, and get
a sense of how he's doing as a parent and get validated from a peer
group. So I think I would work on him with that in the office,
and I would also try to really encourage him to build that out within
his own life. Also, I would love to know what the fuck wh
where's the mother of his child? I doesn't mean not have to know that,
And maybe that would give us some answers to where else we would go
with the work we do together. But yeah, I think he would be
I think he would be a nice client to have. I think he'd come
in very open, very wanting to learn, and just needing like terminal.
He seems like someone who just needs psycho education. And once they know like
the language and the terms and the concepts that he would be very open to
applying them. And he's a client that I think would his progress would be
great, like in a short even a short amount of time, because he
seems really receptive and open and emotionally tuned in, like he doesn't seem scared
of vulnerability and emotions and things like that, and that is great. Goofy
was a great dad, and I was like, where's that dead? In
the nineties there was yeah, you know, the only other dad like that
on TV at that point in time was bag It. Oh yeah, another
single dad. Um. Yeah. But I think also with Goofy, we
probably could say that because his relationship with his dad seemed really nice and really
like connected and sweet and loving. So I'm not surprised that Goofy's also that
way with his son. It seems like he had a very sweet relationship with
his dad, and so that would also be something we could process and therapy
together too, you know, of like what was relationship like with your dad
and do we need to do some like maybe even grief over the fact that,
like your relationship with your son isn't that easy, or just maybe have
that much naturally in common with Max? But what do you have in common?
And focusing on that? So I have what I would do with mister
goof Oh, Hannah, you want to go next show me too? Oh
Nope, me Okay, so I will go um in a role rehearsal here,
I will take the child and I will pick Max, and I think
with Max, I see some hallmark signs that Max has some self confidence issues
and thinks that he's not enough. And the intro nightmare had a kind of
double impact. Thing of the first thing that started going on was that it
was obvious the things that he was a little insecure about, his teeth,
his nose being a little bit bigger, his feet, all those things like
were the things that started growing first before he turned into his dad. So
all that striking while he's trying to, you know, have this relationship,
this romantic moment with a really strangely over sexualized anthropomorphic dog in Roxanne. But
you look at that scene. To me, I was like watching that of
going like, yep, all the things that make you self conscious in a
nightmare all of a sudden getting ten to one hundred times worse and then turning
into your dad. That sounds about right. That sounds about right, and
this coming from someone else that looks exactly like his father in ways that are
frightening. I would want to work with Max that he's not sure of who
he is, and he's in that kind of teenage space if thinking he needs
to be something more and bigger and better than who he is, and that
the things that he's self conscious about he can't see that other people, including
Roxanne, might find endearing. She tells him straight out like she's been waiting
for him to ask, and she's thought he was cute since the first time
she heard him a hook, which I thought was like a really, I
mean, Disney's writing is tight. It's always tight. The writing is so
tight. They tie things right back into each other. And they did it
again of showing like, hey, the thing you might be least secure about
yourself might be the thing someone else finds cute or endearing about you, So
maybe don't shit on yourself, yeah, because someone else might think that's cute
about you. And lo and behold, that's exactly what Roxanne likes about him,
is that he's a little bit goofy. Yeah, she does, she
does. She likes that about him. And then I think he's trying to
be this like uber confident thing and like literally batman his way into getting her
affection by creating gadgets and all of these tech things to win her affection when
really all she wants is for him to just ask her, you really elbow
that Batman reference at the last Yeah you really? Did? You really hamstring
trying to make that reach. Yeah. You know, what I was thinking
of was how do I explain Mallrats and Batman together? And then I realized,
like, that's gonna get a complicated because a lot of the things that
happened in this are pretty similar to the crap that Kevin Smith pulls in Mall
Rats of trying to like build a whole pulley in rig system to pull off
all this elaborate shit. Yeah, but I figured I probably just better leave
that alone. Then I went and did it anyway. So you're welcome.
But the importance of this movie in reminding people that just you as you are
enough, And I think with Max, I would want to really sit down
and create some space to process with him how it went with this girl telling
him exactly that that it wasn't about all of this stuff that you did,
all this fantastical stuff. You didn't have to do all that to get noticed,
And what would it be like for you to try to create what in
EMDR we would call a resource point or even hypnosis create an internal resource ifs
would call it an internal resource. So all the same concept, how do
we create a positive memory marker for you that you were vulnerable, told the
truth and just showed someone five seconds of vulnerability to be yourself and just ask
hey, I'd like to go out and would you like to come with me?
And she said yes, hmm. You didn't have to do all that
bullshit. You you just were enough. She just liked you, just be
you. That's it to create that for a teenagers really empowering that you can
just be you and that's a good enough. I think that would be the
direction I want to go from Max to work on, Like, hey,
you had this fantastical adventure where everything went your way and it worked out because
hashtag Disney. But also let's look at in real life, that's gonna be
a lot of really grandiose effort to get a date. Man, Like,
Yeah, that's a big it's a grand gesture. As you said in the
beginning, Hannah, that's a huge gesture. It's a huge gesture. And
then how much anxiety have we seen it create in people where they create a
system of completely unmanageable unattainable expectations that they create for themselves that aren't what their
partner even wants, Like I don't want you to do all this fantastical shit.
I want you to sit down and watch a movie with me. I
don't want you to work eighty hours a week and then come home and then
put me on this magical trip and buy me all this stuff I want.
I just want you to sit down and snuggle me on the couch. And
I think that would be an important lesson for him to learn early that you
didn't It's not doing all this crazy stuff that made you you. It's that
you can do that you don't have, Tom, And let's build some confidence,
all right, Hannah, Well, I was thinking about doing therapy with
pj oh Yay and what it would be like to have him as a teenager
or like the age that he is, and maybe thinking about the way he
would get there is maybe like he would talk to his school therapist, like
the school social worker or something, and then would be connected to me through
there, because I think that that's probably the most likely way a kid like
him would would see a therapist, and maybe in some cases he wouldn't because
his parent doesn't believe in mental health. And when you have parents who don't
believe in mental health is a thing, you're much less likely to get the
help that you actually need. Yeah, PJ feels like a kid that would
either talk exclusively to their school therapists and their dad would never have to know,
or it would have to be mandated therapy in some way where his dad
can't intervene. Right, Yeah, exactly, because his son wouldn't have a
therapy not his son. Yeah, exactly exactly. So it just made me
think about how how important it would be with a kid like PJ tow him
understand that he has a that he is a like a right to be himself,
that he's and that he's allowed to that he's allowed to do things that
he wants to do. And so it would be a lot of this would
be an experience word, which is pretty common. The work that I do
with the with the teenagers is really letting them lead in some kind of way,
especially if they're being sent by their parent to come and see me for
one reason or another. Is really helping them feel like they have power in
the not like power and control like the way that it works with parents,
but like that they have they have the space that they're allowed to use however
they want to use it, and how important I think that would be for
PJ to have that. And also I would want to help teach him some
skills of how to manage his anxiety and his worry, his constant worry that
he probably experiences about his dad. And it might be one of those situations
where as he gets older and it becomes more appropriate to kind of say,
you know, your dad is very inflexible, and helping him understand that this
is just the dad that you ended up with, and that it's a and
that it's it's hard when we have a parent who isn't willing to see us
or who isn't willing to let us be who we are in any kind of
way, and and really giving him the space to kind of to be able
to have that space for himself instead of waiting for his dad to try and
create that space for him and so tried to do when he's like cancing and
having his like vacuuming to doing his chores, but he's like committing to being
himself. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. He's so close and he just
but he had just has to turn into this In some ways, I would
imagine he's in survival mode when he's around his dad. Oh a thousand percent
yes, Like, yeah, he seems like the kind of kid that once
he really trusted that you wouldn't tell his dad anything, or that I wouldn't
get to his dad. I feel like he'd be the kid that would just
spill his guts to you every Yeah, like he would flourish probably and there
if he once he trusted the dynamic. And where's his mom? Yeah?
Where's everybody? Where are the mothers? Where are the where are the secondary
pains? Where are the other pairgivers? Roxanne, we only see his dad.
Hey, hey, hey, dad's comparent. Okay, that's not what
I'm saying. I said, where are the secondary parents also, or the
grandparents or anybody? Just where's where are the other caregivers? Like? Where
are the other caregivers? And they send these relationships, whether it's a grandparent
or a spouse or a close friend, whoever it is, where the hell
are they? Because they're missing MD. They have many women, adult women
in this movie at all, besides the dancers in the secretary. No,
the closest thing I got to adult woman in this movie was the senior class,
the class president. She had the authority of a grown up, but
she was very much a chop still. Yeah, um, but no,
there isn't really like Roxanne's dad opens the door, we don't see her mom.
They're really oh my god, there really isn't even like at the Postum
thing, the which was a dude, you do see some mothers there.
But yeah, that's interesting, interesting, interesting, interesting interests the goof universe.
There are no there are no That's what I'm saying. Maybe they have
a different way of procreating in the Goofy universe. Maybe maybe they do.
Maybe they do, but there are yeahs at school anyway. Yeah, yeah,
it's confusing when you're in the Goofy movie. It's like the Hunger Games
that at a certain age all the women has to go into the woods and
none of them sort of oh my god. Maybe maybe, but I think,
yeah, I think PGA would flourish in therapy, especially. I think
you and he would be a good fit. Actually yeah, yeah, I
think it would be. I think it would work really well. So yeah,
so that's what I would do. That's the work that I would do
with PJ and I have heard from when I talked to I talked to somebody
about doing this movie a long time ago, and they said that that goofy
is almost like a single dad who's also a man of color. M two,
there's a lot well, there's a lot of um yeah, per TikTok.
The black community is very has claimed this movie that this is a strong
black family the goofs are And I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah,
yeah, that was interesting. But anyway, yeah huh yeah. So we'll
take our final break here and then back with final thoughts, Hannah. Since
you've never seen this movie before, I'm interested in your final thoughts. Are
that's right because you said the Leaning Tower of Cheese and you had no idea.
Yeah, I didn't know what you were talking about. So yeah,
so this movie was This movie was very cute and sweet, like I like,
I knew that it would be an interesting and definitely has a nineties Disney
feel to it that you can't escape. I don't know if it's the music
or the way the cartoon is drawn or the fashion, like I don't know
what it is, but there's something about it that just makes it feel like
a ever just reminded me of watching how often I used to watch Disney movies
on a regular basis. So yeah, so I liked it. I thought
it was very sweet. I like the dynamic between I like the dynamic of
the family. I like that Goofy is a good dad and he's a good
enough parent, and we always want to see a good enough parent in any
kind of story that we're watching, especially any story that has to do with
kids. So that was really enjoyable. And I don't know if I'll watch
it again, just because I don't know why I would watch it again.
Yeah, kind of, but yeah, but it was really it was a
very sweet movie, and I get why people like it so much. M
This was my one of my favorite movies as a kid. I I think
I used to just mostly rewind the two power line scenes, so the song
in the beginning when he does the assembly and then the concert at the end.
I used to just like repeatedly watch those scenes when I would rent this
movie from like Blockbuster or the grocery store video store which we used to go
to a lot. And I also used to remember that I used to feel
like sick to my stomach when Goofy finds out that Max is lying, like
I used to feel so bad for Goofy, and I'd make me like It's
one of those things when you're a kid where you don't really have the words
yet for what's happening, but you know it's awful and it just makes your
body feels it more where you're like, I hate this, Like that's very
much like even when I was watching with Hannah today and I hadn't seen some
movie probably like twenty five years, I was like, my stomach still kind
of hurts, like the way that it would hurt when I was a kid,
because Goofy kept getting his feelings hurt, and I hated it because I
could see, even as a kid, I could see how much he was
trying and how like I think I used to think that Max was being so
mean. And that's why I know I must have been like on the younger
side, like ten or younger when I used to watch it, because I
was not relating to Max as like the teenager. I was very much like
almost on Goofy side. So all the times when I would watch it and
so and I forgot that it was a musical outside of the songs about all
the songs because Hannah was like, this is a musical, and I was
like, I did not remember that. I did not recall. I will
say, I think because I this movie is a grand in my head.
As a kid, I was shocked by how simple the story was. It
seemed a lot more involved when I was a kid and I watched it,
But it's a pretty simple, sweet story, I will say. Not watching
it as an adult, I like how all the weird little jokes in it
that I did not get as a kid, and I really appreciate, Like,
honestly, it's kind of a progressive view of a single dad. He's
like introduced in the movie and kind of a more feminine like look, like
he's got like the towel on his head and the towel around him, like
a more like a mom would like a female presenting person, and he's like
doing the chores. And it's not one of those like more stereotypical, especially
in the nineties kind of movie where it's like this schmuck dad and his schmuck
son and they basically live in a bachelor pat together and they need a one
hand to come in and like make this house at home. It wasn't like
that, like Goofy was making their house at home, and he very much
was like the mommy and the dad, and you could see that right away,
and so I loved that the movie wasn't about if he was enough of
a parent overall. The movie was more just about like adjusting to your kid
as they get older. And I think that is very progressive, especially like
I said, with it being a single dad instead of a single mom,
and that the story wasn't like we need to get a woman in here to
like make us a family. So I think it was a really cool different
approach to this kind of story, especially in the nineties, and I really
enjoyed it. I definitely am excited to show this to my nieces and nephews
when they get a little bit older. I mean, they probably could watch
it now because kids love There's enough Mickey Mouse looking stuff in the movie that
and music and noise and color that I think kid would like it. But
I'm excited when they're a little bit older to show it to them and see
if they still think it's cool. Hannah and I were in a club,
a dance club in Chicago not that long ago. Actually, probably in the
past year, and they played one of the power line songs in the club.
It's called Beauty Bar. It's a very cool dance spot. At everyone
on the dance floor lost their fucking mind. It's like it took like a
few it took a few beats for everyone to like understand what was playing.
So it was like this delayed like when everyone collectively understood and then poor Hannah
who hadn't watched the movie yet, and she was just kind of standing there
in the middle of all these people absolutely going ape shit with like but it
was like a thrilling moment for sure. So I love this movie. I
don't know if I'll watch it again on my own because you know, as
Hannah said, I'm an adult, but I definitely would like to introduce it
to the kids in my life once they get a little older. That makes
I love this movie. I remember, we're going to see it in the
theater. I've seen it many times. I don't know how many times I
went to see it in the theater, you know, it would have been
a little but we had a dollar show in the town that I probably have
talked about a bunch of times. That was my home. I loved that
place. But it was definitely a movie that I saw many times, and
saw many times on the Disney Channel and on VHS. I'm sure we I
don't know if we owned it, but it just it was around and I
still love it. I also forgot about all the music, but I don't
know how that all left my brain. I remembered Powerline, but all the
rest of it was gone, Yeah, just gone, probably because of all
the other space filled up by Lion King songs and probably sung by Color of
the Wind and then Mulan songs because some of the other ones just like and
then all the space, all of the space filled up by Phil Collins Tarzan
songs. My mom like listen to that like for like three months on the
way to school, and I'm like, I'm never part again. It's good.
The beginning is a little rough man jaguar straight up like steals a gorilla.
Baby Like, well, yeah, it's it's rough, but anyway,
not a jaguarry leopard. But I love this movie. I will watch again.
I look forward to showing it to my daughter. I don't think she's
quite ready for it yet because it's pretty, you know, junior high ish
kind of movie, but once she understands what school is a little bit more,
I think she'll get a kick out of it. I think eight or
nine is the sweet spot where you don't know what high school is yet other
than it's this cool place older kids go to. Yeah, so I are
introduce it. Yeah, yeah, I think I don't know she's there yet,
but I do look forward to showing it to her. I think she'll
like it, but we'll see. All right, Well, gorsh that's our
episode. Um. If you want to find us, you can find us
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