Episode 88 - Imperial Fists pt 2 - post Heresy Fists, Crimson fists, and Sigismund

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Forty K-Lorecast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Forty K. Lorcass, with John Barsati and Brad Chester.
[SPEAKER_00]: On today's cast, we're going to continue our coverage of the Imperial fists, starting with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the Horace Heresy, they're moving through the second founding and a little bit about the crimson fists, and we're going to close out with the originator of the Black Templar, Sigismund.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because spoiler guys, the next cast is going to be Black Templar.
[SPEAKER_00]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will of note we're going to skip the sole drinkers for now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to add them into we're going to make a cast in the future at some point probably this year about some of the smaller but really lower critical chapters like cool cars car car radons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because they're really cool, but they're not like, you know, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's like cool things, not the Raptors, the Carcara Nons, but it's ours.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a bunch of really cool that have really cool characters with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're doing, we're talking about the Crimson Fist today, so we get Pedro Cantor, but like there's a lot of characters that have had a lot of flavor in the game for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But even with the sole drinkers, where it's like, are they a trader-leason or are they not a trader-leason?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's like, there's a lot of these stories are really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember, we're going to get to them pretty soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there are a lot of them are the Imperium is the Imperium, the bad guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you push back on the corrupt Imperium, yes, you're pushing back on the Imperium, but does that make you corrupt?
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, that's a spoiler alert for an episode that's probably not coming out for four months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, anyway, it's always Forty K. Lord cast the weekly podcast focusing the lower the Forty K universe releasing every Monday at seven p.m.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eastern time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, jump on in, but with that, let's get back to the Imperial Fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so it's our post-Harracy.
[SPEAKER_00]: As we discussed the last time,
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn was pretty beat up at the end of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, so beat up that it affected the rest of his legion.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a weird little thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as we said, Dorn was active, nonstop for three straight months.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of this event, something actually happens to him internally, and it's called Dorn's Curse, and it spreads throughout the entire legion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just kind of the same way the black rage hit the blood angels.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, did they think happened to the iron hands?
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a curse on the iron hands from a death of Ferris Manus?
[SPEAKER_02]: They weirdly enough that everybody knew about their primary death in iron hands.
[SPEAKER_02]: Blood Angels got permanently damaged, the iron, the imperial fist, effectively got OCD slash severe depression at the same time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but this happens before Dorn's death, spoiler alert.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't think that that's the thing is the death is always a big thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But whatever is going on with the primers, think about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of the legions have always suffered from whatever the state that the primer is in because they're sickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a huge blow.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, again, the primarx psyche lately.
[SPEAKER_02]: He seeps down into the rest of him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, Dorn had a feeling in, well, not he didn't fail.
[SPEAKER_02]: He felt that he failed, you know, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and he never wanted to happen that again.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Dorn is a combo.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really, he's in a
[SPEAKER_02]: severe any, also in a superhuman severe depression, but he's also, he's bananas OCD now because he can't think of anything but how to be better, faster or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: What are my plans better?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this makes him worse to be honest with you though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he's better before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's no question, Dorn host heresies is an inferior version to Dorn preachers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, by a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if we both were Americans, we both watch a poll.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a shell shot quarterback.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is that he was invincible and then all of a sudden, he wasn't invincible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now all he sees is his lack of invincibility.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's waving described.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do it better because it goes into it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a fighter suffering his first defeat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Under feet of fighter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of those guys never come back from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he got, and the irony is he even get defeated.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just won, he won a decision victory instead of a decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, put the decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I can never fight again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, man, grow up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, Prince Kerr's real quick is something that affects all of the Marines in his league.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it can affect any Marine in the Legion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's simply as someone having a bit of malaise and wanting to fight stronger and stronger opponents in an effort to show their superiority or the more extreme version of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: is that they become obsessed with perfect performance in battle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the conclusion of any time that they fight, all they might do is go fight again, which makes them useless because there's no we're going to get into this in two seconds, share with we here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, oh, yeah, a bunch of his legion starts to be
[SPEAKER_02]: a backs of self-adulation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, I can't go fight right this second.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I should score myself for the fans I've had.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me a while to make this one cleaner than my initial first pass on what this is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Doran's a bit of a weirdo.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what he discovers is that the only way for him to really center himself is to inflict massive amounts of pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has to suffer.
[SPEAKER_00]: thinking slash hoping, GW took this from the self-thraudulation that Knights would do during the Middle Ages, not what I think we all think this really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the idea of the Knights in the Middle Ages was that they would punish themselves for any perceived fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was their way of gaining atonement was I know what I did wrong there for I will harm myself and do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Dorn builds this thing called a pain glove.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what you do is you, it's not, but it's not a glove.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually something, it's a glove that's that it envelops your entire body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it shoots electrical currents through you making your entire, all the synapses in your body light on fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if anyone, it was been luxury and who's had the luxury of having nerve pain like I've had, where your entire arm or leg catches fire, don't just do that to himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the interesting thing about this is that Dorn does this to himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: His legion then picks it up and it actually does become a cure for Dorn's curse.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you get this issue where like you just can't get out of your own head effectively, you go and you hop in the good old pain glove and electrocute yourself for however many days it takes to stop doing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that it would probably cure my malaise or at least I wouldn't tell anybody about it anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey Brad, how are you feeling?
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Super good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never felt better.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you sure you know what you sure you don't want to hop in the pain glove?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: No issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, who wants lunch?
[SPEAKER_00]: So back to Dorn, though, it's a Dorn Post-Harracy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing he does, a tone for his sins, is he joins in the scouring heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: He grabs his legion and he's going to go out and it's Trader Askin in time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to the fair, Bobby G is super angry at this because he thought him and Dorn were going to be rebuilding a bunch of story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Bobby G gets back.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, OK, leave him and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, leave him as it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lion, I honestly didn't really want you around anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, bokeh out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jagged icon.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one knows where he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who cares?
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's supposed to be rebuilding.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he just takes off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be honest about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: What he wants.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wants to punk Puerto Rapa.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wants to he wants that is kind of the the focus of his hire.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all traders, but he's they're looking for he's trying to pick a fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we cover this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm about twenty episodes ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about like where the primarks are now trader in Legion.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this one I'm going to go really quick for you all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn and his legion discover Petarabo are on a planet called Sebastian.
[SPEAKER_00]: And on Sebastian's in the middle, the planet is a giant sign that says totally not a trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Dorn and his legion go, got it, and they attack the totally not a trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is actually a giant complex of trenches and fortifications.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Dorn is legion land on the outside of it and just go step by step destroying all of it and killing any iron war they see there until they get to the center which is to giant open space at which point because there's an X marked on it with a piano over and up of it in the coyotes over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Peter Robo says, I lied.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a trap and springs the trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they go into a kind of a pretty protracted battle here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Luckily for Dorne Gilliman was not far behind.
[SPEAKER_00]: It basically was like, come on man, I eat you back here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gilliman also saw the trap for distance and went, yeah, that's totally a trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are they doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Ultra means to send and save the Imperial Fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: This story is odd to me every time I've read it, so it's been a little bit odd.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only explanation I can give for like the story of this is that is to show how broken Dorn was after the siege of terror.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the kind of thing he would have never fallen for.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though he gets pumped on it, but I feel it's a good story because of the fact they're showing
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing things that are exactly the opposite of his character or how he usually acts.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's blinded by rage, his logical, what he usually is tech turn, you know, going by the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: He does everything that he despises kind of in his rage.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it takes them a while to figure that out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because again,
[SPEAKER_02]: Dorn after the heresy is the Diet Coke of Dorn.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that I screw with it, but like before this, he's just a fortress.
[SPEAKER_02]: He himself is just can't be, I will never move.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm always gonna win.
[SPEAKER_02]: And after the heresy, I think he just makes bad decision after bad decision because he's just filled with anger for the people that did stuff, but also anger again because of anger for himself that he could have done better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another example of this is actually the second founding.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, remember, during has always been, he speaks his mind, very much as speaks his mind, but he is a true believer in the imperial truth and the growth of the imperial.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Gilliam and comes to him with the second founding.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, so second founding is when they decided to break up all the legions.
[SPEAKER_00]: They said, no legions, you'll have more than a thousand members, cough, cough, black templar.
[SPEAKER_00]: But get to them next week, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he comes to everybody and Gilliam and knew he had a fight on his hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: with Lehman and the Lion.
[SPEAKER_00]: He knew those two would be absolutely against it, but he assumed Dorn like Vulcan and the other ones would see the rationale for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn did not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn actually was more aggressive around this than Lehman and the Lion were.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lehman just went, okay, and left and just didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he just went.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're totally going to do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, whatever, and then he just drove away with his legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: They went, you have a timetable for what you're going to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like, oh, it's going to be soon for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting right on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just got a couple things to do that are going to take ten thousand years first, but then I'll get to it after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the lion was just basically just, okay, and then hung up the phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the lion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Vulcan, Jagatai, Vulcan pushed back a little bit, but he still, he didn't say no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jagatai, Corax, they were all on board.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn was almost psychotic in this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn not only, Dorn didn't just say no, he actually began attacking, probably attacking Gilman with a how dare you, but then actually started questioning Gilman's loyalty to the Emperor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the weird turn, Dorne actually, Gilman, of course, says, what are you talking about, of course, well, and then Dorne says, well, where were you with the siege of terror?
[SPEAKER_00]: You weren't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you don't believe in the emperor.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason Gilman wasn't there is just trapped in the warp, by the way, is why he couldn't get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it just, it catches Gilman all,
[SPEAKER_00]: genuinely, like on the back foot, and Gilman does exactly what Gilman would do.
[SPEAKER_00]: The situation was just throws it right back at him and says, you're the one opposing the imperial now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are the traitor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not the traitor.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're the traitor, which is this is just two brothers arguing.
[SPEAKER_00]: This gets so bad, though, that Dorn actually moved towards a civil war, because Dorn brings his entire fleet together, refuses to break up, and actually turns his fleet into an aggressive stance against the imperial fleet that are there.
[SPEAKER_00]: The imperial fleet, of course, respond, thinking they're about to get attacked by the failanks and the local Dorn's fleet.
[SPEAKER_02]: It actually does, I mean, hold on, because things get so weird here, dude, because they get in a huge stalemate, where these fleets are posturing each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, one person does any, your ship docks a little too fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of a sudden, there's a full out war.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, how are we gonna fix this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or, don't get super bananas weird and go into his pain glove for a week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, hold on, you jumped it because before he does that, one of the Imperial Navy ships fires on the Imperial Fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that just gets everyone's like, oh, hold up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if it's something about that happens, then Rogel goes, fine, I'm going to go meditate in my pain cage.
[SPEAKER_00]: and goes back to his weird, his pain go up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, to breath like one week spends a week saying tortured, at which point I'm sure both fleets are just sitting there going, so are we doing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you basically have two kids about to have a fist fight with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they just keep standing there long enough that everyone around them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So should we just get a bite to eat?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do we do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we hang out?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, eh, but anyway, when he, during comes out of this much calmer, and he agrees to the second founding.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he does it in a very, very cool way, whereas Lehman and the Lion just didn't do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, pardon me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn sees something.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I really do respect Dorn.
[SPEAKER_00]: He sits there and accepts the imperium of old is gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that the new imperium would only resemble the form.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he was, no, but I don't want to go too far on this because I don't think that you saying that the old imperium is gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, kind of, because Dorn wants to hold on to the old ways, which the old ways were crusading.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think he ate his more in line with the old imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what he said, the way I took it as is he's accepted the old that what was is gone, but he wants to preserve what was.
[SPEAKER_00]: He still wants to appear him to go back to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's got a structure his legion in a way that will preserve what he cares most about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he restructures them basically to honor the emperor and what was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what he does is he makes it so that he most closely follow the original imperial creed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mostly, because the Templars kind of embraced the Ecclesiarchy a little bit later, which is not part of the original imperial, but it's no, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a couple of cool things he does.
[SPEAKER_00]: First off, all his second founding chapters are going to adhere to the mantra of the great crusade.
[SPEAKER_00]: They will continue the mission of unifying humanity under the banner of the emperor.
[SPEAKER_00]: All successor chapters are going to continue gaining territory expanding.
[SPEAKER_00]: Conquesting new frontiers establishing a fortress moving on.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the same at the fifth, seven doing for hundreds of years prior to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And out of this founding, we get crimson fists, black tamplars, sole drinkers, a whole bunch of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also, Dorn does another thing that I think is awesome, and I wish other legions had something as cool as this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The space will do, but it's not as awesome as Greg.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn makes something called the feast of blades.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Dorn knows that his legion being broken up is going to lose contact with itself over time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You take this point, probably like, twenty thousand, if not less soldiers, but you break them up into different legions, actually by the same five thousand I'm being honest, you break up into different legions and then send them all fallen their ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to lose contact with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they lose contact with each other over time, they're going to lose the ways of battle and the ways that kind of what makes them imperial fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he makes this thing called the feast of blades.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a once a century tournament where all the successors of the imperial fists send a champion to a fighting tournament, low one v one tournament until a champion's crown.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the winner just brings honor to the chapter and then that chapter hosts the next tournament.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the bigger thing here because what they're doing is making it so a champion, obviously you want your chapter, you want to show your martial prowess, but he wants different people to win because he wants different hosts because it gathers them together, shows where are my brothers right now, how have they been doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: What is their status?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where's their head that kind of thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it helps also keep the pride going.
[SPEAKER_00]: One important note here, the imperial fists are not psychopaths.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't fight to the death.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's stories of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the one between is the space wolves and the dark angels.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is the one where they have it and every now and then it's gotten a little ugly a couple of times.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, these guys are awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the feast of blades has occurred.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every hundred years is, so if the way it works is, whenever you win it, you have to hold an event within the next hundred years.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might be sixty years, it might be seventy, it might be the full hundred, but it has to happen that period of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have never missed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even with the war of the beast, even with all of things happening, this event has occurred.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been times and only like ten guys have shown up, but it's always occurred.
[SPEAKER_00]: So after this, let's talk about why Doran's not in the game anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but Dorn's death.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pause.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting an asterisk on there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dorn's maybe death.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have his hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's get in.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the first place to say, you know, yeah, Dorn has the lamest death.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all the primarks.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the lamest of all the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So not even a good story.
[SPEAKER_00]: First, Abonance, first black crusade comes out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn is there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He meets them and he personally teleports onto a battleship to kill everyone on the bridge with his honor guard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where he dies and his honor guard will come back holding his head.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll get to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the hand of Dorn is what it's called, has sat, it's the most holy relic it sits within the Phalanx obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for ten thousand years, it's been there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool thing about it isn't even graved every Imperial Fist chapter master is name on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's basically the Stanley Cup of Primark.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the reason this is interesting is for the entire history of Forty Kay into this point until very recently, that's been it for Dorn.
[SPEAKER_00]: We now got some new stuff and I'm gonna ask anyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: who is in the process of reading the newest full-groom book, Perfect Sun, to fast forward about three minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, I'm gonna say that big-earmuffs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or earmuffs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, earmuffs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm gonna spoil it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a book that released at time of recording three weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't read this, but it got spoiled for me when I was doing the research, and I didn't wanna leave it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for those of you who are going to read that book, again,
[SPEAKER_00]: Three minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, here we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the book, there's a blackhead was having a vision.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in that vision, he's fighting against Fulgrim.
[SPEAKER_00]: And while fighting against Fulgrim, suddenly, rogled Dorn appears next to him, surrounded by what appeared to be Gemini Superior.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's described as sisters with jumpax, so I'm going with Gemini Superior.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here's what he's saying, Celeste.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Dorn then takes up the fight with him against Fulgrim, and they beat them back.
[SPEAKER_00]: When the Black Templar wakes up, he tells a story to his leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the leader decides this is not a random dream.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an omin.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that Dorn is alive.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what we can do is if we fight Fulgram, hand a hand, the Dorn will return.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they, of course, get the ship and they had right towards their full grimmets.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is an interesting thing from a GW standpoint, because remember, full grimm hasn't been in the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, we just brought full grimm back.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only in horse hairstyles.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just brought Fulgram back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with GW and my mind is implying in this novel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a may be because this is a novel, not a codex.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it was in the codex, I'd say this is definitely happening because it's an novel, it's a may be.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're implying that the battle with Fulgram by the Black Templar will be enough to bring Dorn back in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had never until I saw this a thought that they would bring Dorn back into the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought of all the primarcs, it's definitely Lehman Russ, maybe Vulcan, but that's how it's thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It actually from a narrative standpoint makes more sense for it to be dorm.
[SPEAKER_00]: because the Imperium up until seventh edition was failing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tieriards are overrunning them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Abonna has broken the sky or ripped.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got the rift.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've got the rift.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's going the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And who do they?
[SPEAKER_00]: They brought back.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got the captain of logistics, Gilliman, with the largest force and primarismarines.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you've got the greatest offensive mind, which is the lion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Leaming can fight, but we're talking about like, of the loyalist who can take a fight to an enemy and win battles, it's probably the lion.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you then bring the best defender in, it's actually, the Imperium has a chance now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, that's my thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say that I want GW to do this, and I wouldn't do it for one very simple reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would then bring Dorne back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want Dorne to be the best model in the entire game from a rule standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to watch Brad play Roguel Dorn in numerous tournaments because he can't help himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: If he's awesome, I would be so mad that he's not Vulcan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he'd be so great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love watching you win like a major with Roguel Dorn because he's like
[SPEAKER_00]: got Gilliman's powers, but it's like a hundred and eighty points.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're just like, I'll just just like have to play Dorn.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, just a pause.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would, it would be great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, with the death of Dorn, I want to jump then into kind of what happens with the fists afterwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the scouring begins, the fists and all their successors join in, as we said, post death of Dorn, and they say that subsequent pseudo death of Gilliman,
[SPEAKER_00]: Lehman disappears.
[SPEAKER_00]: Vulcan disappears.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lion disappears.
[SPEAKER_00]: Corex disappears.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no primarx left.
[SPEAKER_00]: This creates a problem and a gap in the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fists step into this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because as each of these legions without their prime kind of become more heavily focused in their little regions of space, wherever, but basically wherever their home world is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they start waging what I would call private campaigns.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the stories from about the thirty one, like M thirty one, up through about M forty, all of what if you whatever codex you have, it's regional.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a couple little things obviously, war of the beast, Armageddon, some amazing pop up for the most part, they're all below the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only legion that focused on Terra was the Imperial Fests, because the custodes, by the way, were just in the palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were even open with the shutters.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just in the palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the fists, which makes sense, they have no home world, so they're just a giant massive float flotilla moving around the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they decide to take on this role of protectors of the Imperium, which is super awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a huge fan, obviously, of this, because the Imperium needed this.
[SPEAKER_00]: They stayed initially out of the politics of the lords of Terra, but they would make their presence known.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just put it that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Novel time because they should always, every time the lords of Tara do anything like eat breakfast or exist, you should always kill them.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, core land.
[SPEAKER_00]: Getting there and getting there in a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: But really, one of the great examples of why the fists are so important is the great or the war that we exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: because the only reason the imperium doesn't die in this moment is the imperial fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this org wall begins, as we said before, this is the first wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: The orgs were always held in check by the Eldar, with the Eldar went down and then even if the emperor there, the orgs were held in check.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now they're just not in the galaxy's hitting anarchy zone, which is where the orgs really thrive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this massive things begins.
[SPEAKER_00]: And no one really within the Imperium takes it seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lords of terror actually and a bunch of planetary governors let the I'm going to seek out for this because the lords of terror responsible for the war of the beast period.
[SPEAKER_02]: The war of the beast originally was a smaller walk and people
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the Lord's of Terras vassas and minions and couple of Lord's Terras called for we need help.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is happening and the majority of the Lord's of Terra with help that help to try to weaken their political rivals and wait for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And because of them doing this, they walk grew exponentially.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's one of the many reasons that the Lord's of Terra suck eggs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they let this happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: This grew from a, this is going to be a tough battle, because a walk's going on to a whole crap.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is one of the biggest galaxy may fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Luckily at a certain point, word reaches the fists of, hey, this is a huge problem we have.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a massive Zeno incursion that is running through everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: and core land, who actually becomes a chapter master for a very short period of time before he dies in the same war.
[SPEAKER_00]: saves the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: He recognizes that the orcs are not just a threat to the sector, but to all of the impairing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he does a couple things.
[SPEAKER_00]: First, he marshals local support to slow down the org.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he basically gets there and takes what exists of the planetary defense forces and gets them to help out.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second thing he does is awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: He calls for something that's called the last wall protocol, which is like a cheat code that Dorn put into the second founding that says, she got a threat arrive that's so significant.
[SPEAKER_00]: all successor chapters of the fists would unite on under one battle flag again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's called a last wall protocol.
[SPEAKER_00]: In doing this, all of the crusading fleets of the successor chapters, stop what they were doing and rushed to, I believe, this is an ulnar at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're saying he lit the beacons of Gondor?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because of Gondor, we're in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: This order, though, goes beyond that, because it's the fists and the fists are respected.
[SPEAKER_00]: All members of the Imperial Military, namely the other Space Marine legions, also take note of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Ultraman Successors, Blood Angels Successors, the Space Wolves themselves, and more, all start rushing over to have this look for this war.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we discussed the war of the beast before.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's where the death watch comes from.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the war of the beast shifts the military structure in a few different ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's also because they took bananas losses like holy crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the losses are so extreme that I believe one chapter was like there's like fifty members.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing that's actually cool about this story, too, is after it ends, the fists themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: The main chapter was so heavily damaged that there was a potential that they actually would die off.
[SPEAKER_00]: So their successor chapters all gave over their recruits.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to the imperial fist, so that they could bring the lesion back up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the successor chapters would rather their viewpoints, we would rather us die off and cease to exist, then the Lewis are regenerators.
[SPEAKER_00]: progenitor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, again, the imperialists weren't done yet, though, because the aftermath of the war of the beast, the lords of the terror went right back to their old ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were given a bunch of recommendations of what needed to be done, and they all went, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and bezel some money over here and stab my rival.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's more interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Imperium, it almost collapses under this war with the orcs, barely survives, and the lords of terror decide now that's put it in the grave.
[SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, or unlikely, it works out both ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thane, who's now the current chapter master of the Imperial Fists, sees the lords of terror or idiots, and are untrustworthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is great.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, I need somebody to keep an eye on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting back in the line straightened out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure the Imperians run in great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me see, list of people I could give that to.
[SPEAKER_02]: How about the head of the imperial assassins?
[SPEAKER_02]: What possibly bad could happen if I tell this guy to find out?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he did watch out.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did start doing dumb shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he immediately killed all of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every single one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every single one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two a man.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what's weird about this is that he then takes over.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can't tell if he actually officially took over or if this is more of a weekend at Bernie's thing because it's just weird little bit where he takes control and they refer to him turning into a tyrant.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, it seems like people still thought the lords of terror were around.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, this thing and eventually, and the fists come back a little bit later and have to invade terror, which by the way is a funny thing about the fist.
[SPEAKER_00]: They built all the defenses, and they spent a lot of time in the lore attacking said defenses.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they do, this battle's cool is how they go, and they actually have to fight their way through the temple of ever-sore assassins.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not somewhere where you want to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a great time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a great time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They succeed.
[SPEAKER_00]: They kill him and they place a new group of Lord of the Terror in charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: And once again, head off into the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fast forward, another thing, millennia or two, Goge Van Deer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goge Van Deer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this story is going to go to the cup a couple of times.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, you also is going to come up in our Blacktamp, Black Ast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goge is the one who takes control using the Ecclesiarchy to take control of the Imperium, the civic ancestors of battle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well before they were the sisters of battle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the height of his crazy, Goge gets the attention of the Imperial Fist and the Black Templars mostly because he actually destroyed a few of their fortresses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Black Templars don't like it when you kick Sand Castle down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imperial Fist really don't like it when you kick their Sand Castle down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they came back and with the help of the custodies, Goge ends up dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Side note, this is one of the first times that the custodians come out and fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this basically becomes the post-heracy mantra for the Imperial Fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've taken it upon themselves to honor the Emperor by being his most stalwart supporter.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to finish a great crusade and bring all of humanity under the wing of the Imperium, but at the same time, they also try to fortify and unify the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is funny because there's on Terra, but there are also the people that are the farthest away from Terra at the same time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what happens is with the fist, this again, why I think the fist was such a major part of the player base in the lore for a long time, is because all of the other legions are bit like they support the Imperium, but it's their legion first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the Ultramarines, who we know I love, they're very focused on what the Imperium needs, naturally with the Emperor wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the Space Wolves want to bring all the glory they can to the Imperium, but they don't really
[SPEAKER_00]: care beyond the glory and same as the salamanders iron hands raven guard blood well blindels are on this little weird spot white scares who cares they're all doing their own thing to but it is it's more about them it's what the chapter it's what the chapter decides the imperial needs where is the imperial fists in my mind
[SPEAKER_00]: follow the imperial retreat much more aggressively, but that they create because it creates the religious one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they follow the imperial troops much more aggressively.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got it from a good source that the religious part of the empire it was written by a very good source.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally, totally safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, there's the dark angels.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have their own stuff to deal with.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one's surprised are doing their own thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what happens with the fists is that they become more of the defenders of the realm as it moves into.
[SPEAKER_00]: They, so for example, every time Abadan comes out, the fists tend to be their waiting form.
[SPEAKER_00]: When the destroyer plague was moving through.
[SPEAKER_00]: fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have as many stories of the fist taking offensive action, their successor chapters do, but the fists seem to settle a bit more into a world of defending the imperium, fortifying the imperium, proving the imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like the fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to paint in yellow, so I will never own them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do like the fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yellow is just rough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yellow is a rough thing to paint in.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's talk before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk now though about one of the successor chapters.
[SPEAKER_00]: One that actually was really popular in the game for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then stop crimson fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm not crazy Brad, like in like fifth, sixth edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, man, you saw crimson.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the thing is they had a lot of cool rules when they started doing the successor chapter rules.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plus, Peter Cantor was a super cool leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had great rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've got, and they've got some goofy lures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I like them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about the crimson fist for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be right back after a quick break.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doran made a successor chapters.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't talk about this earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Each successor chapter he made, he did with the Emperor that we made the original lesions.
[SPEAKER_00]: where he picked specific people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the black Templars who will cover next time were the most fervent believers.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were the absolute, the Knights of the original Crusades.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we meant to copy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The crimson fists were actually the inverse.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were all the newest members.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the idea was, in my opinion,
[SPEAKER_00]: was to create a legion that would follow the teachings of Dorn, but not necessarily the history.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the Imperial Fists, for example, they just love Dorn.
[SPEAKER_00]: They care about Dorn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever Dorn is, Dorn is their Messiah for lack of a better phrase.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Black Templars were just zealous towards the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to conquer the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one's going to stop me.
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea was with the Crimson Fists, they were supposed to be the most adhered to the Imperium, if nothing else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in my mind, they resemble the seventh Legion, more than they resemble the Imperial Fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Quick side note, they're called crimson fist for the dumbest reason I can possibly throw that dumbest worst reasons, but apparently it used to be what a chapter master of the Imperial fist would get promoted.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would cut his hand with a knife and so would dorn and they would shake on it and then their hands would be covered in blood because this is written in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this was written I think eighties or nineties and that was up in blood brothers was a thing because I think one stupid movie and AIDS didn't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Post AIDS.
[SPEAKER_00]: blood brothers went away pretty quick anyway so the crimson fist they changed their colors as a result by the way to from the yellow and black armor to a dark blue armor with red fists for those of you who play on the table top
[SPEAKER_00]: I have messed this up before where I thought I was playing Ultramarines when I looked across the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was crimson fists because it tends to be the same blue, but their hands are red.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, that's that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So crimson fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to kind of how they function and what they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like everybody else, they are a mobile Legion.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then establishing a home planet, they were supposed to do this does change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have an endless crusade to the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_00]: They would conquer a land, fortify it, take a tide, the local population leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what's more interesting, though, is that the way that they view the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're bananas loyal, and they continue to be bananas loyal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's weird, is there not crazy zealots, but they are really, really people that actually, they're not, you get the same, sometimes they get the same, they're synonymous with.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that everybody in the crimson fist is a true believer on what the Imperium path is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I could see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they get is, they're odd because to your point, they're not zealots, but they are massive believers in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of them join the death watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, they become very close with the inquisition as a whole.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one that Brad doesn't like is they also become very close to the Lord of the Terror.
[SPEAKER_00]: They become
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the part of their Lord that makes them awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are really story wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are the chapter of choice when you have to go kill a chapter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but they're often sent on missions of people that are not getting attacked for the right reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why in the lore, the lore lore, like the books, not the codexes, the crimson fists are awesome, because they tend, because they're the ones when if a chapter is deemed by the inquisition to be heretic, heretical, then they send the crimson fists to destroy them.
[SPEAKER_00]: The story is this, like the first one is the sons of Gideon.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no story of what happened to them, but the sons of Gideon were determined to have embraced heresy.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the inquisition, no evidence is given nothing, but the crimson fist descend and wipe the chapter out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wiped it clean.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no man.
[SPEAKER_00]: And destroy the gene seed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they don't just kill it, they destroy the gene.
[SPEAKER_00]: The next one that they were sent after is a marines vigilant.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just one of those kind of, you know, these stories by the way, guys, are a paragraph and a codex, but they're cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Marines vigilant encountered some Zeno species, no one knows where.
[SPEAKER_00]: It turned them into passive.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one is super sad, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's extra messed up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So apparently, the inquisition goes out there and you have a bunch of Marines who just don't want to fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't see the value in fighting.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no purpose in fighting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And apparently, that's enough for you to be called a heretic.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they set the fist and they killed them and they put up zero defense against it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just sad, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the fist arrived.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like, they're not defying themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: They basically walked up to each of them and just stabbed them.
[SPEAKER_00]: The guy just went, she's just like, he fell over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the greatest battle, actually, and this is what we talked about earlier, is against another second founding chapter of the imperial fist, the soul drinkers, which, by the way, not a great name.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, cool name, but if it's simply going, I want to make a successor chapter about how we care about the Imperium, and we're going to go out there and we're going to be the light and the darkness for humanity.
[SPEAKER_00]: humanity doesn't usually like it when the guys who show up are called the soul drinkers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when it's, oh, who's here to help us?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the crimson fists, they've read hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're the black Templars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now they wear black armor.
[SPEAKER_00]: They go across on them.
[SPEAKER_00]: All the imperial fists here.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have yellow, yellow is a nice color.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who are those guys?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's purple army.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's the soul drinkers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're all going to die.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be terrible for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're all of us are dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, the soul drinkers, we're going to cover them in a later one.
[SPEAKER_00]: May or may not have turned to heresy, but they were labeled as having turned to heresy because sport, they had a little bit of a tith with the ad mech over some relics that were theirs and the ad mech felt worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway,
[SPEAKER_00]: Crimson fists go out there to kill them and they fail.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get a chunk of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in modern lore around them, the crimson fists are actually still hunting down the soul drinkers, one of the big, one of their big pieces, like the same way that the, uh, down the ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same concept.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, when you are a chapter who specializes in killing other chapters, and you're closely aligned with the inquisition on lords of terror, there are some other legions that aren't big fans of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we'll visit big fans of the inquisition and because of that, they are not big fans of the crimson fist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so what happens is the base walls basically won't deploy with the crimson fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: They won't be around the crimson fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they see the crimson fists, they keep them at a distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: The space wolves, because they've had their own little incidents with the acquisition, view the crimson fists as either a threat or as a traitor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care which one they have, but it's a cool little story that does have some implications.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my assumption is some of the other regions probably feel the same way about the fists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you guys are used to kill other space marines.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mo go ahead and not have you hang it out in my ship.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go hang it over there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has typical.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm currently nodding my head at John and no one can see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's continue.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, but let's get into kind of the last little bit of the crimson fist, which is the orcs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the crimson fists in the forty first millennia settled down on a planet called Rin.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an agri world that fist had liberated entire sector from a couple of orcs empires.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then after they land on the planet, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and much like we talked about the age of technology, that's what they land the ship and then they cannibalize the ship and they turn it into a giant fortress on this planet, Rin.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no real reason for this, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, it's kind of also odd because the last thing that Dorn told everyone to do was crusade forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then fists went, yeah, we got tired.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're gonna hang out here.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this story's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not really, well, the story's got a fun twist.
[SPEAKER_00]: The missiles got a twist on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a hell of a twist.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the orcs come back and this isn't so an orc invasion is happening on a space marine recruitment world.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is normally a very quick story of the orcs showed up and then the orcs were no longer there because unless you bring a full law you're not getting through this and this was not a full law but a weird thing happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: The orcs appear in orbit and the fortress monastery goes cool, fires void missiles at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the void missiles goes up and then it's engine basically cuts out and it turns right back down, lands straight back at the monastery, hitting the munitions depot, blowing up the monastery.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say blowing up the monastery, six companies of crimson fists were in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are sixteen remaining, not companies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Crimson fists including Pedro Cantor they then have to run across the planet the continent to the next outpost and the story from there is like rag tag chapter hangs out for a year and a half
[SPEAKER_00]: under nonstop orca salt.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they discussed this that when the Bolters didn't work, they used the chain sorts.
[SPEAKER_00]: When the chain sorts didn't work, they used a rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys fought and fought until the distress call got because remember the imperement doesn't move quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the distress call goes out and the imperement goes, yeah, we'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they eventually the imperement navy shows up with guardsman space marines and titans.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the world is saved.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, that's a really quick story.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I would say, well, why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the fun part about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the afterwords, Pedro Cantor and the rest of the fists, one under some, what the hell happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: How could, like, the kind of almost comedy of errors that would have to occur for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it wasn't fell back.
[SPEAKER_00]: The missile turned around.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then found itself laser pointed on the munitions depot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a lot of things have to happen for this to go down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it also didn't get shot down either.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it got turned off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Avoid missile got turned around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Targeted the munitions depot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And none of their defenses did anything about a one missile coming at them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what they discover is the office USS norm is behind it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No reason to give is this punishment for some sort of unknown offense or the lords of terror trying to remove the chapter that's done most of their meddling or is the inquisition just actually did the illusion want the world to follow the orcs because he was going to help them with a different mission elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: or trace in the infinite.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was always a chance to just trace in.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Brad theory, by the way, is that they're trying to hover up their chenanigans.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree that I think this was the lords of Tara trying to destroy the crimson fests because they knew, I think that's the sole drinkers thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again,
[SPEAKER_00]: I say all that, and this is all made up stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can do it everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's the fun part of the Crimson Vists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's now set up our next cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to talk about a person named Sigismant.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to read a book about someone just doing some ask kicking, read books about Sigismant.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I wish you had a stupid laurels on his head.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate that look.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, in the worst part, they're on his helmet and then on that rent and they also are on his bald head, where he doesn't wear a helmet.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, he's got one of the greatest quotes about himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Say, grittiest, sad quote.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is less dork's champion and more pause death itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a badass lie dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: Siggasman is the greatest non-primark fighter in the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say that now he would beat Lord Gar.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's such a chump.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably Jagatai.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just hate the wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do hate.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to yell that by like the eight white scars players.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one plays them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want you to know that in seventh edition, I had a white scars tau combination because they could join each other's units back then with the average never seen white scars until that eighth edition code X came out where they had advanced in charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Never had to play them for a while because they were the best Legion except for the stupid captain who had to run really quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway,
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Sigistman is born on terror.
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually fought the unification wars.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd joined at the age of twelve.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to this date, he's the youngest full fled space marine in the chapter's history.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was such a great warrior that he almost immediately gets flagged to be the join the Templars, which is the honor guard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is like, and by the way, they're called templates because they, their surcoat, kind of the cloth in front of the armor, had a big black cross on the white with a black cross on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those colors invert later, because I'm foreshadowing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just to help you with it, how much of a bad dude he was.
[SPEAKER_00]: While serving in the Templar, the first cap in the Templar died, and they didn't do one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I assume he died.
[SPEAKER_00]: They only even say what happens, they just say they need to do a new one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sigas Ben says, I'm going to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to volunteer for the tournament.
[SPEAKER_00]: In order to get the rank of first captain, you have to then one V-one, two hundred of the existing Templars back to back, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_02]: They do such crazy shits of times that they say these things, you're just like, how do you ever get a captain?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you want to be the first captain, you have to beat two hundred of us back to back, not like, not spread out over a couple years, back to back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's the better part.
[SPEAKER_00]: He beats a hundred, ninety nine of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the two hundred is a contempt or dread not.
[SPEAKER_00]: which with Sega segment with a power sword fights a contempt or dread not.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for those of you who don't play the game or maybe aren't, this isn't clicking with you, I have a contempt or dread not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually, I went to legends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've taken out entire squads with that on the tabletop and this deathguard, but still.
[SPEAKER_00]: The contempt or dread not is, I mean, maybe Leviathan patterns better, but it's one of the top patterns, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're just not beating a dread not when your queen's very rulesing him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he went sword and board on a dread not anyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, he becomes the first captain of the Templar.
[SPEAKER_00]: It allows Sigisman and Dorn to become very, very close.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the head of his honor guard, so wherever Dorn goes, Sigisman goes, but also meant that Dorn would send Sigisman to places in his stead.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where Sigisman's legacy really blows up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he ends up fighting, like what I'm like, these are all just stories of how much of a bad assay is.
[SPEAKER_00]: The imperial fists and the world leaders are on a planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: while there, Karn before he becomes Karn the betrayer, bonds with Sigismund pretty hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're having a chat, they have it a chat one day, and Karn goes, hey man, I don't know what you're doing later, but we've got these cool fighting pits that we all go into after we've been in a battle all day to go beat each other up because we think it's fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do doals, one V-one doals.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, why do you want to, and Sigisman goes, that sounds awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to take part in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he goes in and two is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just start to beating the camera up at every all the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, he also, yeah, until Angron walks up and goes, all right, my turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Sigistman does not beat Angron, and he never no one should beat Angron in the situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he takes Angron longer and further than anyone had ever done it before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Angron is just for Angron, smiling ear to ear.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is absolutely impressed with this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how much he could fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, as much as he can fight, he's also an incredible believer in the imperial truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, him and Dorn probably are two, maybe Malcolm, actually, and Malcolm was on the much of a believer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's kind of a huge belief with the imperial truth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you believed it to the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got some, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got multiple quotes for him and about him that are amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, another great one in Horace Rising is he's got, quote, talking about the great crusade.
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, we will spend our lives fighting to secure this Imperium, but then I fear we will spend the rest of our days fighting to keep it intact in the far future that will be only war.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, he says that not as a pacifist.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more just as an acceptance, like Brad, you love talking about firefly, in the line in firefly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to live in the world, but I'm going to create it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what Sigisman was on.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was on team.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am going to create a better place in them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even if it means I have to kill everybody, I'm going to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the heresy happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my opinion is that I think Sigisman took the heresy harder than Dorn did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that he even understood, like, it's just not a possibility for somebody to go trader.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't even in his mind, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that wasn't an option.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so out of left field that it's almost like he couldn't accept that it was a real thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or how?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not real.
[SPEAKER_02]: The sky is blue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sigisman rages the traders, and with rage boils over inside of him, and the plus side, he goes, is it super son?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the science?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he goes that, because this rage becomes actually or just the Hulk, and he is full clip ready to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: As much as we talked about the last cast, Dorn being like Captain Badass, and he was, Sigisman was also there.
[SPEAKER_00]: at Alpharius, Sigisman was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got same as Sigisman was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: On the wall, Sigisman was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sigisman led the raid into Mars, which is a great story, especially because he's there slaughtering traders and has this moment where he's got the supplies he needs and he can either take these supplies and go back to Terra or he can go kill a few thousand more traders.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to his credit, he takes a supplies back because he knew it was more important.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the book you can hear him, he's just furious.
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk about badass moments.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just blown off the fact that he had to go toe to toe with Alfarius for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, before Dorn came there to kill Alfarius.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alfarius was fighting Sigisman.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Alfarius was going to win, but it was taking some time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sigismans, awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say Sigismans, if you basically read the entire siege of Tara, he pops up constantly.
[SPEAKER_00]: End of death two and three are nuts.
[SPEAKER_00]: He fights full-groom.
[SPEAKER_00]: He fights corn.
[SPEAKER_00]: He fights typhus.
[SPEAKER_00]: He fights basically a who's who of traders.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sigismans fights them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he need to get bailed out a couple times, but it's pretty badass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, one of the best parts of this, and what sets us up to the next piece, is during the siege, as the traders are getting closer and closer in a sanctum, Dorn goes to Sigusman and gets him a new order.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is going to be the Emperor's Champion, the title of the Black Templars still used to this day.
[SPEAKER_00]: and what his job was is you were going to keep the Emperor safe at all costs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they re-equip it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He puts on the best suit of armor that exists in all his basements, a given incredible weapon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Give me the stuff though.
[SPEAKER_02]: The title is Emperor's Champion, which is a Black Templar title that they give to someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Sigisman spends a little period in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we talk about
[SPEAKER_00]: the siege of the imperial palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were random chaos elements that were getting into the palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: This member is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace is the emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The emperor's palace.
[UNKNOWN]: The emperor
[SPEAKER_00]: and it was mostly Sigassman, just basically like a ghostbuster running around the place just stabbing us with a lot of yelling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Later, he was intense, but later when the Emperor decides to teleport to the vengeful spirit, Dorn obviously is going to go with him before he does.
[SPEAKER_00]: He turns to Sigassman and hands the entirety of the defense to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Siggasman is leading the interview.
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew it before.
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew this part was going to make you so happy because there's still another primer here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's Dorn and San Guinius go up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jagged icon still there and Dorn looked at Jagaday and I said, I saw you did with jumping off of the wall to go fight more terror like an idiot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this guy over here, he's in charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because ten a ten, you can't be trusted.
[SPEAKER_00]: and Jagatai Khan just went muka and so Sigismund takes control of the entire imperial forces while Dorn is up on the eventual spirit.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the siege of Terra, Sigismund obviously joins Dorn on team.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go kick some traitor ass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fast forward a little bit though to Abadon's first black crusade.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Abadon's first black crusade is a major moment for both the imperial fists and also for the black Templars.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's because... It's a major thing for the Imperium, though, because Cass is not gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're a real threat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because up until Abidon's first Black Crusade, Cass was around, but it wasn't organized, and it wasn't attacking.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was being chased by people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So at this stage, Sigassman is the head of the Black Templars, because we're opposed to second founding.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know that Katie is important and they happen to be over there in the general vicinity when Abidon comes out and two major things happened that she just two main deaths.
[SPEAKER_00]: First off, this is where Dorn dies and is recovered, but on a different ship.
[SPEAKER_00]: Air quotes on dead.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hoping you come back.
[SPEAKER_00]: a separate ship, Sigisman has been hunting Abadan for over a thousand years at this point, because they fought back on terror, and Abadan had to get saved, because Sigisman was going to wreck him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sigusman finds Abadon and they have a duel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Abadon's on so many pbs by this point though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and Sigusman's a thousand years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a thousand years old when these two fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Abadon is full of chaos power.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sigusman is Black Templar.
[SPEAKER_00]: They fight all the way to the bridge of the vengeful spirit.
[SPEAKER_00]: He confronts him and
[SPEAKER_00]: Aberdon does kill him, but not until after, Sigisman runs him through with his sword.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Aban still has to this day.
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually was so deep and so powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chaos couldn't heal it all the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sigisman dies and this becomes the launching point for the Black Templar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because before Sigisman died, the Black Templar were fanatical.
[SPEAKER_00]: after he dies, this legion explodes with a rage towards heretics and anyone who stands against the arrow because- Well, Nanna Zellett's now.
[SPEAKER_02]: They also, this is a successor chapter doing wild air codes right now for everyone because a chapter is supposed to be thousand Marines and then all your auxiliary stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's get there next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's tease it a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The black Templar may or may not be the largest legion of in the entirety of a space.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's, they got some.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say may or may not, but you will cover more of that next week, it gets ugly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they are incredible zealots and incredible force in the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I wanted to stop it there because next week, we're going to do the black Templars.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to go deep into them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, we hope this has been a good enough coverage for the Imperial Fest fans.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's actually a lot of you out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you liked it.
[SPEAKER_00]: For the people who don't know the Imperial Fest, hope this is enough information.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next week's an all-black Templar episode, because they really just need their own coverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I now, maybe, making my mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while they're saying, help, help, wreck.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go, go, go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, help, wreck is just, help, wreck can fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, anyway, as always, this has been John Barside and Brad Jester.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you guys next week.