Bull Durham (1988) vs. Major League (1989): Part 1

<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Surely You Can't Be Serious Podcast. Remember it
<v Speaker 1>is die Hard night, free episode for anyone who is alive.
<v Speaker 1>Last time the Indian warned a pen in it.
<v Speaker 2>Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely Can't Be Serious Podcast,
<v Speaker 2>discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten of eighties
<v Speaker 2>and nineties pop culture with your co hosts James D.
<v Speaker 2>Graves and Jason Colbin.
<v Speaker 3>All right, D, let's go. We're gonna announce my presence
<v Speaker 3>with authority and now I'm gonna the.
<v Speaker 1>Entire pot announce your announce your what, announce your having
<v Speaker 1>presence with authority, show my heat.
<v Speaker 3>Hang on, everybody, hang on second, Hey, D can help
<v Speaker 3>you with it. Rose goes in the front, big guy.
<v Speaker 1>Very nice. Yeah, we're here to talk about two of
<v Speaker 1>the best baseball movies of the eighties, Bull Durham and Major.
<v Speaker 3>We're so excited. I am a former high school baseball player,
<v Speaker 3>and when I was in high school, man, we quoted
<v Speaker 3>these movies all the time locker room bench, during the game.
<v Speaker 1>I am a former little league baseball player, and so Jason,
<v Speaker 1>you will be our resident baseball expert for this episode.
<v Speaker 3>Well that sounds good. I am a big baseball fan.
<v Speaker 3>I love the major leagues. I grew up watching minor
<v Speaker 3>league baseball in my hometown, so baseball has always been
<v Speaker 3>a huge part of my life. And I love these movies.
<v Speaker 3>So I'm very excited to talk to these with you.
<v Speaker 1>Well, I you know, I don't want to sell myself
<v Speaker 1>too short. I've coached a little league for my boys.
<v Speaker 1>We won the entire season for our t ball team
<v Speaker 1>for one of my boys. But yeah, let's roll on this.
<v Speaker 1>We've got Major League and Bull Durham. Let's talk about
<v Speaker 1>when those movies came out.
<v Speaker 3>So Bull Durham was released June fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight,
<v Speaker 3>and then not quite a year later, Major League was
<v Speaker 3>released April seven, nineteen eighty nine.
<v Speaker 1>Right, so, Jason, which one of these movies is your favorite?
<v Speaker 3>We're gonna tell it right now.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know the answer to this question. They're both
<v Speaker 1>so freaking good I can't I still don't know the answer.
<v Speaker 3>They're both awesome, They're both extremely quotable. I think they
<v Speaker 3>both have a lot to offer. But I'm gonna hold
<v Speaker 3>my opinion until the very end.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm gonna have to because I just still don't
<v Speaker 1>know the answer on this one.
<v Speaker 3>I will tell you this though. I'll tell you this.
<v Speaker 3>Sports Illustrated rank Bull Durham as the number one sports
<v Speaker 3>movie of all time. So let's start with Bullderham.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we'll start with Bull Durham. So Bull Durham was
<v Speaker 1>written and directed by Ron Shelton. Ron was a minor
<v Speaker 1>league baseball player himself, played from sixty seven to seventy
<v Speaker 1>one for the Baltimore Orioles Farm Team, played second base.
<v Speaker 1>He's written several other movies. But he got together with
<v Speaker 1>Kurt Russell, who some of you may not know, was
<v Speaker 1>also a minor league ballplayer. He would he'd go shoot
<v Speaker 1>movies and then he'd go play ball, and people at
<v Speaker 1>the ballpark were like, hey, you know, you're not really
<v Speaker 1>focusing on baseball, and he was like, yeah, you're right.
<v Speaker 1>I guess I'll go make lots and lots of movies.
<v Speaker 3>You know, that really blows my mind because Kurt Russell
<v Speaker 3>is a full blown movie star when we know who
<v Speaker 3>this guy is. But he was also a professional baseball player.
<v Speaker 3>But he's been an actor since he was very young.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, yeah, he was Disney movies actor.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Kid movies, The Computer War, Tennis shoes, right, right.
<v Speaker 1>So have you seen the documentary that he did about
<v Speaker 1>it was called The Battered Bastards of Baseball.
<v Speaker 3>No, I haven't even heard of it.
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So his dad being Russell, who was also an actor.
<v Speaker 1>He was in Bonanza and some other stuff. But he
<v Speaker 1>owned a minor league team called the Portland Mavericks. And
<v Speaker 1>there's been a documentary that's come out in the last
<v Speaker 1>couple of years about that team and it is awesome.
<v Speaker 1>I love it. You need to check it out.
<v Speaker 3>Okay.
<v Speaker 1>Cool. I may not be a sports guy, but I
<v Speaker 1>am a sports movie guy, and this one, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>it's just it's it's great. Being Russell is a character.
<v Speaker 1>I like it. I think you'd really enjoy it. So anyway,
<v Speaker 1>Ron Shelton Bullderham, Right. So, Ron and Kurt Russell get
<v Speaker 1>together and they put together this script based kind of
<v Speaker 1>on both of their experiences as minor league baseball players,
<v Speaker 1>and it was intended that Kurt Russell was going to
<v Speaker 1>play the part of Crash Davis.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and they said he went out of town for
<v Speaker 3>a few days and when he came back, Ron had
<v Speaker 3>given that part to Kevin Costner. Kevin Costner actually had
<v Speaker 3>talked to Ron Shelton. This is before Kevin Costner was
<v Speaker 3>a household name, right, So they shot this in nineteen
<v Speaker 3>eighty seven. The Untouchables was released in eighty seven. That's
<v Speaker 3>what kind of ramped him up. Untouchables in no way outright.
<v Speaker 3>So Kevin Costner was like, hey, listen, I played baseball
<v Speaker 3>in high school. I love baseball. In fact, let me
<v Speaker 3>show you. And so he dragged Ron Shelton to the
<v Speaker 3>batting cages and just wanted to demonstrate to him. Look,
<v Speaker 3>I can play a little bit. You know. I wasn't
<v Speaker 3>in the big time, but I can hit.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He switch hits during the movie. I don't know
<v Speaker 1>if you noticed that, but Kurt was known for being
<v Speaker 1>a solid hitter. Wasn't that great in the field because
<v Speaker 1>he spent time making movies instead of practicing, But he
<v Speaker 1>was a switch hitter as well. So it's just kind
<v Speaker 1>of weird. I think this movie might have done as
<v Speaker 1>well with Kurt Russell as the character. But at this point,
<v Speaker 1>Kevin Costner's locked into my memory as Crash Davis.
<v Speaker 3>Well, Kevin Costner doesn't knock it out of the park
<v Speaker 3>as Crash Davis, But I mean, you're right, I think
<v Speaker 3>Kurt Russell. First of all, he could look like a
<v Speaker 3>baseball player, which is huge. Before we really go any further,
<v Speaker 3>Ron Shelton makes this point most actors want to be
<v Speaker 3>athletes but can't, and they can't even pretend to be athletes. Right,
<v Speaker 3>But Kevin Costner and Kurt Russell were the only two
<v Speaker 3>guys that he found that he felt like could pull
<v Speaker 3>off visually what a baseball player looks like. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>I've got a list of guys that were considered for
<v Speaker 3>this role. H should we go through this list? This
<v Speaker 3>is incredible list, Sure, go for it. Considered was Mel Gibson,
<v Speaker 3>Harrison ford, Don Johnson, Jeff Bridges, Nick Nolty, and even
<v Speaker 3>for a brief moment, Bruce Willis with Sybil Shepherd as
<v Speaker 3>Annie Savoy was considered.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's funny because they were still full on Moonlighting
<v Speaker 1>at that point.
<v Speaker 3>They were full on Moonline. Yeah that's right.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And Nick Nolty he had been in the Football
<v Speaker 1>movie earlier, so was obviously an athlete, but just he
<v Speaker 1>didn't like baseball.
<v Speaker 3>Well I'm glad he didn't take it.
<v Speaker 1>Then. You know, this movie, I think opened the door
<v Speaker 1>for a lot of baseball movies. It was kind of
<v Speaker 1>this that led into Eight Men Out and Major League
<v Speaker 1>and a league of their own A lot of lot, right, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>for sure.
<v Speaker 3>In fact, at this time when he was pitching this
<v Speaker 3>to the studios, sports movies in general are kind of
<v Speaker 3>known to be not great moneymakers, but baseball movies, I mean,
<v Speaker 3>you think before this movie there was kind of a
<v Speaker 3>run on baseball movies in the late eighties. But before this,
<v Speaker 3>I mean we're talking about like The Bad News Bears
<v Speaker 3>was the last reasonably made baseball movie.
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, which is a fantastic movie, by the way,
<v Speaker 1>come on, butter crud anyway, so it opens the door
<v Speaker 1>to other movies, including our other movie, which is Major League.
<v Speaker 1>Major League was written and directed by David Ward. Now,
<v Speaker 1>David Ward had come into Hollywood. He had been teaching
<v Speaker 1>like screen writing at a college level and then sold
<v Speaker 1>a script called The Sting and it ended up winning
<v Speaker 1>Best Screenplay, so it opened a lot of doors for him.
<v Speaker 1>But then he didn't do so well after that and
<v Speaker 1>this one. He had been pitching this movie since nineteen
<v Speaker 1>eighty two and couldn't get anybody to bite on it because,
<v Speaker 1>like you said, sports movies weren't doing anything. And then
<v Speaker 1>Bull Durham comes along, everybody falls in love with it,
<v Speaker 1>and now Major League gets the green light.
<v Speaker 3>I think it's really cool. David Ward was a Cleveland
<v Speaker 3>Indians fan. Yeah, he was fulfilling his own fantasy of
<v Speaker 3>seeing the Cleveland Indians win the Pennant.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's he said he thought the only one he said,
<v Speaker 1>he thought, the only way he was ever going to
<v Speaker 1>see them win is if he put it in a movie.
<v Speaker 3>Yep. Cleveland City at that time.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they were the dregs of the league, and
<v Speaker 1>it's Cleveland is such a major part of this movie.
<v Speaker 1>And I love that they start the movie out with
<v Speaker 1>burn On by Randy Newman, which is about the Cuyahoga
<v Speaker 1>Rigor first on fire because there was so much collition
<v Speaker 1>on top of it. Even so, I don't know if
<v Speaker 1>you know this, but this is sort of based on
<v Speaker 1>a story of a real guy named Calvin Griffith who
<v Speaker 1>owned the Minnesota Twins, and he's infamous and famous for
<v Speaker 1>a lot of things. Billy Martin was his manager that
<v Speaker 1>he both hired and then fired later on. But he
<v Speaker 1>had this deal when they moved into the Metrodome in
<v Speaker 1>eighty two. Yeah, part of the lease that he had
<v Speaker 1>done was if the attendance averages less than one point
<v Speaker 1>four million people each year for a period of three years,
<v Speaker 1>they were released from their lease. And he was legitimately
<v Speaker 1>looking at Tampa Bay.
<v Speaker 3>Right Florida was held out as this wonderful destination for
<v Speaker 3>major League Baseball to come. So he threw out a
<v Speaker 3>bunch of scrubs and intentionally tried to make the attendance
<v Speaker 3>go below one point four moan and it worked.
<v Speaker 1>But he ended up selling to another group anyway. But
<v Speaker 1>this was the last family owned major League baseball team.
<v Speaker 1>He was the last of the family owned Major League
<v Speaker 1>base Wow. So, as you mentioned David Ward, he grew
<v Speaker 1>up in South Euclid, which is just a suburb of Cleveland,
<v Speaker 1>and this was a labor of love for him. And
<v Speaker 1>so he had done the sting. He had fallen out
<v Speaker 1>of favor with some bad projects and then did some
<v Speaker 1>work with Robert Redford, and once bul Durham was a success,
<v Speaker 1>he was able to get his movie made.
<v Speaker 3>I love the fact that even though Cleveland does play
<v Speaker 3>a major part in this, it really wasn't filmed in Cleveland.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, no, they filmed almost all of it in Milwaukee.
<v Speaker 3>They had to move to Milwaukee for the Baseball Shots
<v Speaker 3>because the Cleveland Browns were playing their preseason games and
<v Speaker 3>they couldn't tear up the field. And all you see
<v Speaker 3>Baseball Wise is filmed in Milwaukee. Shall we move on
<v Speaker 3>to the over simplified plot?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Do you want to go first on Bull Durham? Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>Okay, the oversimplified plot of Bull Durham. Young upcoming, hard
<v Speaker 3>throwing wild pitcher Ebbie Calvin nuclear Looche is in the
<v Speaker 3>Durham Bulls Minor leag He's wild, but extremely talented, and
<v Speaker 3>he needs somebody to guide him. So management decides, let's
<v Speaker 3>get this better and catcher that we think is really smart.
<v Speaker 3>His name is Crash Davis. Let's buy out his contract
<v Speaker 3>in TRIPAA, bring him down to a ball so he
<v Speaker 3>can guide and direct this young talented pitcher. Meanwhile, Annie
<v Speaker 3>Savoy the town baseball group. He takes it upon herself
<v Speaker 3>to guide and direct a young prospect every season to
<v Speaker 3>get them to the major leagues. So Crash and Annie
<v Speaker 3>have the same task at getting Nuke ready for the
<v Speaker 3>major leagues.
<v Speaker 1>And by the way, do you know, do you know
<v Speaker 1>what a baseball group he is called an Annie? Okay,
<v Speaker 1>oversimplified plot for Major League Former Las Vegas showgirl Rachel
<v Speaker 1>Phelps inherits the Cleveland Indians baseball team from her deceased husband.
<v Speaker 1>She is intent on getting the team moved from Cleveland
<v Speaker 1>down to Florida, but when told that there's no way
<v Speaker 1>that the city will release her from the lease, she
<v Speaker 1>shows the general manager of clause that says if the
<v Speaker 1>attendance is bad enough and they perform badly enough, they
<v Speaker 1>will be released from their lease. She then commences to
<v Speaker 1>put together one of the worst teams imaginable. This guy's
<v Speaker 1>dead crops him off the list. She puts together a
<v Speaker 1>team of horrible players, including pitcher Ricky Vaughan, catcher Jake
<v Speaker 1>Taylor who's playing for the Mexican League, manager Lou Brown,
<v Speaker 1>who she's brought up from the minor leagues, Adro Serrana
<v Speaker 1>who cannot hit a curveball, pitcher Eddie Harris who is
<v Speaker 1>beyond his time. The team performs poorly, but not poorly
<v Speaker 1>enough for Rachel Phelps, who then begins to take away
<v Speaker 1>many of the team's amenities, including whirlpool baths and planes. Eventually,
<v Speaker 1>the team is two fed up and is losing games,
<v Speaker 1>but at this point, the general manager informs the manager
<v Speaker 1>of Rachel Phelps's plan, who then informs the team, who
<v Speaker 1>then decides to win the whole effing thing. The Indians, then, again,
<v Speaker 1>to all odds, begin to win, all the while Jake
<v Speaker 1>Taylor tries to rekindle his romance with his ex love Lynn,
<v Speaker 1>and the Cleveland Indians go on to win the pennant.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's it's such a good movie. I love this movie.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Jason, let's compare the rosters for each of these teams.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that sounds good. All right. So crash Davis is
<v Speaker 3>the main character from Bull Durham. He's Kevin Costner's character,
<v Speaker 3>and he was actually named after a real person, Lawrence
<v Speaker 3>crash Davis. I don't know if you know this story
<v Speaker 3>or not, but he was kind of scouring the old
<v Speaker 3>magazines of baseball players, came across this name and loved it.
<v Speaker 3>Assumed that the guy was dead because it was an
<v Speaker 3>old magazine. Yeah, he played from He played actually for
<v Speaker 3>the Durham Bulls from nineteen forty six to nineteen fifty two,
<v Speaker 3>and then found out later the guy was very much alive,
<v Speaker 3>and so they were really trying to kind of wanted
<v Speaker 3>him to let them use his name. He came to
<v Speaker 3>the first day of filming and he said, how you doing.
<v Speaker 3>I'm Crash Davis and he said, I only have one
<v Speaker 3>question for you. Do I end up with the girl
<v Speaker 3>at the end? He said, yes, you do. He said, great,
<v Speaker 3>you can use my name.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The real crash Davis actually ended up being in
<v Speaker 1>another movie, Ron Shelton's later on called Cobb.
<v Speaker 3>The character of crash Davis was modeled after William Holden's
<v Speaker 3>character from The Wild Bunch. He wanted him to be
<v Speaker 3>like a modern day gun slinger moving from town to town.
<v Speaker 3>He has no family, he's got no home. He just
<v Speaker 3>goes where the money is and that's He's just a
<v Speaker 3>hired gun.
<v Speaker 1>Right. So for Major League, our catcher is Jake Taylor,
<v Speaker 1>played by Tom Barringer. He's based on Carlton Fisk. You
<v Speaker 1>know they mentioned that Jake Taylor is an all star
<v Speaker 1>in Boston. But Jake has come from the Mexican League
<v Speaker 1>and has one of the best introductory shots. I think
<v Speaker 1>I love what he says.
<v Speaker 3>He gets the phone call, Hey Jake, this is the
<v Speaker 3>Cleveland Indians. He's like, is that you? Tolbert Funny ooh,
<v Speaker 3>I'm hungover.
<v Speaker 1>He could have pretended it was the Yankees. All right.
<v Speaker 3>Back to Bull Durham.
<v Speaker 1>So we have our pitcher, Ebbie Calvin nuke Lalouche. Did
<v Speaker 1>you know that he was named after a waiter.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I heard this story. Yes, Shelton was eating at
<v Speaker 3>a restaurant and the guy came up to him and said, Hi,
<v Speaker 3>how you doing. I'm Ebbie Calvin LaRouche, but you can
<v Speaker 3>call me Nuke. So he's played by Tim Robbins. They
<v Speaker 3>actually Ron Shelton had to go to bat.
<v Speaker 1>For Tim Robbins, right.
<v Speaker 3>The studio did not want him at all.
<v Speaker 1>Did you know that Charlie Sheen was actually considered for
<v Speaker 1>this part as well?
<v Speaker 3>I did see that, Yes, but he had already been
<v Speaker 3>hired to play in Eight Man Out. But the studio
<v Speaker 3>really wanted Anthony Michael Hall.
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, that's right. Which man that would have been?
<v Speaker 1>That would have been wrong? Yeah, several while.
<v Speaker 3>In case you may not remember who Anthony Michael Hall is,
<v Speaker 3>he is the nerd from the Breakfast Club. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>if you're listening to this podcast, you probably know.
<v Speaker 1>Who, right, or the nerd from sixteen Candles or the
<v Speaker 1>nerd from weird science science. Yeah, you know.
<v Speaker 3>He played in the movie called Johnny Be Good. We
<v Speaker 3>was a football player. He did okay in that he
<v Speaker 3>did okay. But anyway, he arrived to the meeting with
<v Speaker 3>Ron Shelton thirty minutes late and had not read the script.
<v Speaker 1>Ooh.
<v Speaker 3>The producer said he thought Ron Scheldt was gonna kill
<v Speaker 3>him right then. Yeah, So they put it off till
<v Speaker 3>the next day, and when he arrived he had only
<v Speaker 3>read half of the script and so they chased him
<v Speaker 3>off and said, forget you, this is not happening. Forget
<v Speaker 3>That's what they said. Yeah, So Charlie Sheen was also considered,
<v Speaker 3>also considered David Duchovney.
<v Speaker 1>Again, that doesn't that wouldn't be right for a guy
<v Speaker 1>to be named Calvin nuklalouch. He has to be six'
<v Speaker 1>five and all kinds of, lanking, Right AND.
<v Speaker 3>I Mean Tim robbins is six foot five and pictures
<v Speaker 3>are generally tall and, long you.
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah And david d'coffney is not.
<v Speaker 3>Tall, ALONG i DID i found something out about this
<v Speaker 3>character nukele. Loosh this character is based on a real,
<v Speaker 3>Person Steve. Dalkowski so this guy played in the late.
<v Speaker 3>Fifties Ron shelton's former, Manager joe Al tabelli was ordered
<v Speaker 3>to Help Steve dalkowski get ready for the big. Leagues
<v Speaker 3>his nickname Was White. Lightning, okay this. Guy, basically it's
<v Speaker 3>agreed upon that he threw between one hundred and one
<v Speaker 3>hundred and. Ten they didn't have radar.
<v Speaker 1>Guns back, there, yeah, right no.
<v Speaker 3>Radar Cal Ripkins senior he has said publicly that he
<v Speaker 3>thinks the guy may have hit one. Fifteen Arondis, chapman
<v Speaker 3>who is an Active Major League baseball, player he can
<v Speaker 3>he throws one, hundred four hundred and. FIVE i mean
<v Speaker 3>that is a different. GEAR i mean when you if
<v Speaker 3>you ever played, baseball when you get into the, nineties
<v Speaker 3>that's super. Smoke you get in the upper nineties and
<v Speaker 3>that's ridiculous. Heat one hundred and ten is. UNHITTABLE i,
<v Speaker 3>mean it's unbelievably.
<v Speaker 1>Fast right in the time that they have been recording
<v Speaker 1>the speed of pitches with radar, guns there has never
<v Speaker 1>been a pitch faster than one hundred and six miles an, hour.
<v Speaker 3>Right Like Nolan ryan was like a. Hundred but, Anyway
<v Speaker 3>dalkowski is this. GUY i, mean there's all kinds Of
<v Speaker 3>lore with, Him dulkowski struck out more batters and walked
<v Speaker 3>more batters than any professional pitcher in. History, okay so
<v Speaker 3>we were talking about how the studio did not Want
<v Speaker 3>Tim robbins as they're. Nuke they really Wanted Anthony Michael.
<v Speaker 3>Hall Ron shelton finally just said, No i've got to
<v Speaker 3>have this. GUY i really Want Tim. Robbins and the
<v Speaker 3>studio's response to that, was the audience will not believe
<v Speaker 3>that a guy like him would be with a woman
<v Speaker 3>Like Susan. Sarandon, right she's too high, class she's too
<v Speaker 3>pretty for him and all. That, well as it turns,
<v Speaker 3>out they have this little. Romance they were together for
<v Speaker 3>over twenty.
<v Speaker 1>Years the actual, Actors, Yeah sarandon And Tim robbins got
<v Speaker 1>together because of this.
<v Speaker 3>Movie they have three, kids And Ron shelton's actually the
<v Speaker 3>godfather of their firstborn, child which is a really cool.
<v Speaker 1>Story, right that's. Awesome, Okay so pitching for The Cleveland
<v Speaker 1>indians Is ricky Wild Thing. VAUGHN i love this. Guy, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>MAN i tell, you it's got to be one of
<v Speaker 1>the most memorable. SCENES i remember seeing this one in
<v Speaker 1>the theater and when he walks out for that final
<v Speaker 1>game and comes out with The glas glasses. On, yep
<v Speaker 1>this is the coolest.
<v Speaker 2>Guy in the.
<v Speaker 3>World when the owner of the, Team Rachel, Phelps she's,
<v Speaker 3>LIKE i hate this effing.
<v Speaker 1>Song, Right so he's. Played he's played By Charlie, sheen
<v Speaker 1>who had actually played high school ball and had been
<v Speaker 1>offered to play FOR i believe it was The university Of.
<v Speaker 1>Kansas is that?
<v Speaker 3>Right? Yeah Kansas, jayhawks that's.
<v Speaker 1>Right and obviously he went on to be an, actor
<v Speaker 1>was in several, movies Including Eight Men out and then
<v Speaker 1>some of our favorites Like Ferris Bueller's Day, off and
<v Speaker 1>then kind of gained some renowned in the last ten
<v Speaker 1>years for being a drug.
<v Speaker 3>Freak he's been In Feris Bueler's Day, off, right he
<v Speaker 3>was In, platoon he was In Young, Guns Minute, Work, Winning.
<v Speaker 1>Winning and speaking of, drugs he admitted later on that
<v Speaker 1>he actually took steroids to prepare for this role and
<v Speaker 1>increase the speed of his fastball from seventy something up
<v Speaker 1>to about eighty.
<v Speaker 3>Five but he's actually based on a real Life did
<v Speaker 3>you see.
<v Speaker 1>This, yeah he's based On Ryan.
<v Speaker 3>Duran Ryan duran is known for his blazing fastball and terrible.
<v Speaker 3>Eyesight in, FACT i asked my dad about this because
<v Speaker 3>my dad was a baseball, player and first thing he said, was, oh, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>man he threw really, hard but he had glasses the
<v Speaker 3>size of coke.
<v Speaker 1>Bottles let's talk about the, Manager skip played By Trey,
<v Speaker 1>wilson who was also in one of my favorite movies
<v Speaker 1>Called Raising arizona Played Nathan arizona in that. MOVIE i
<v Speaker 1>love that. Guy we lost him too. Soon he died
<v Speaker 1>just a few, months like nine months after this movie came,
<v Speaker 1>out at the age of.
<v Speaker 3>FORTY i, think, yeah he had a cerebral hemorrhage and.
<v Speaker 1>Died for.
<v Speaker 3>Me he is the manager In Bull, durham but you're.
<v Speaker 3>Right In Raising arizona he has one of the funniest
<v Speaker 3>lines of the entire movie when they're, like could you
<v Speaker 3>describe what the child was wearing and he's, LIKE i don't.
<v Speaker 3>Know it Was jammy's And yoda's on.
<v Speaker 1>Them you.
<v Speaker 3>Know.
<v Speaker 1>Great isn't it true that your real name Is Nathan.
<v Speaker 1>Huffhines would you buy furniture from a place Called Painted? Huffines?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah he. Does he does the managerial job in this
<v Speaker 3>and is super. Funny, yeah he's hilarious and his he's.
<v Speaker 1>Great both of the managers in both of these movies are,
<v Speaker 1>awesome but it's a totally different. Part his manager is,
<v Speaker 1>THIS i don't know what to, do the kind Of.
<v Speaker 1>Forlorn please help. ME i just can't deal with this
<v Speaker 1>kind of. Guy whereas In Major, league if we're ready
<v Speaker 1>to move on to, that we've Got Lou brown played
<v Speaker 1>By James, gammon who is maybe the. COOLEST i mean
<v Speaker 1>his do not give a f.
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't even blank and the owner comes. In he's buck.
<v Speaker 3>Naked i'm old to be diving behind.
<v Speaker 1>Longer one of MY i think one of my favorite
<v Speaker 1>scenes is Where dorn brings him the contract and, says
<v Speaker 1>what do you think about? That not a?
<v Speaker 3>Word not a? Word just flop zip WE i, MEAN
<v Speaker 3>i tell, you we quoted this movie all the TIME
<v Speaker 3>i get in front of the Ball. Dorn don't give me,
<v Speaker 3>This oh, Lady, Yeah, OH i don't. KNOW i got
<v Speaker 3>a guy on another line about.
<v Speaker 1>Wall.
<v Speaker 3>YEAH i love both of these. Guys all, Right so
<v Speaker 3>do you want to talk About Susan strandon and we
<v Speaker 3>want to talk About Larry. Hockett, WELL i don't know
<v Speaker 3>Who Larry hockett, Is so let's talk about. Him Larry
<v Speaker 3>hockett is the pitching coach for The Durham, bulls played
<v Speaker 3>By Robert. Wohl he's the guy who goes out to the.
<v Speaker 1>MOUND i didn't know his last name Was. Hockett, okay
<v Speaker 1>so we're talking about the assistant. Managers now that's, Right,
<v Speaker 1>LARRY i got. IT i got. It now go.
<v Speaker 3>Ahead So Larry hockett is played By Robert, wohl who
<v Speaker 3>has been In.
<v Speaker 1>Batman.
<v Speaker 3>BATMAN i mean that's WHAT i know him. From he, is, uh.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah the Reporter Opportunity. Knox, yeah CAN i get a? Grant? Artless?
<v Speaker 3>Artless that's. RIGHT i was just. Saying he's a stand up.
<v Speaker 3>Comedian And Ron sheldon hired him because he did the
<v Speaker 3>absolute worst audition of all. Time he said he was
<v Speaker 3>completely over the, top but, yeah had a super high
<v Speaker 3>level of. Energy. Yeah he, thought you know what if
<v Speaker 3>we can just redirect this guy a little, bit and,
<v Speaker 3>so uh he. Became in his own, Words robert will,
<v Speaker 3>said he was the yes. Man he's the guy when
<v Speaker 3>they throw the bats into the shower and he's, like
<v Speaker 3>anybody not the shower in ten seconds could fine hundred.
<v Speaker 3>Dollars larry, One mississippi Two. Mississippi he. Was he was
<v Speaker 3>the most middle manager guy you could. Be he was just,
<v Speaker 3>there just like not contributing anything at all except to be, like, yep,
<v Speaker 3>yep okay okay uh AND u candles make a good,
<v Speaker 3>gift which solved one. Problem that was the least important
<v Speaker 3>problem out of four. People talk about that. Line let's
<v Speaker 3>talk about that line real.
<v Speaker 1>Quick, yeah he had lived that.
<v Speaker 3>Line so the original scripted, line he was supposed to
<v Speaker 3>go out to the mound and they were supposed to
<v Speaker 3>describe all these problems having, Right nuke's dad was there
<v Speaker 3>and he was, nervous, right and his shackers were, jammed,
<v Speaker 3>right and was, cursed and nobody knew what to get
<v Speaker 3>Million jimmy for their wedding, gift, right, Right and so
<v Speaker 3>the scripted line, was, OH i thought you said there
<v Speaker 3>was a.
<v Speaker 1>Problem.
<v Speaker 3>Okay so it was at the end of the night
<v Speaker 3>And Ron shelton he knew That Robert willis is creative,
<v Speaker 3>guy and he knew he'd been kind of chewing on
<v Speaker 3>this line all day, long and he'd been ready for.
<v Speaker 3>It so they had done it four or five or six,
<v Speaker 3>times and he's, like all, right whatever you, got last
<v Speaker 3>take of the. Night go do. It so when he
<v Speaker 3>runs out, there he says the infamous, Line he's, like,
<v Speaker 3>well you, know candlesticks make a great, gift and maybe
<v Speaker 3>you can find where she's registered and get a place set.
<v Speaker 3>In all, right let's get to. Right and when they watched,
<v Speaker 3>dailies the whole place busted up at that. Line so
<v Speaker 3>and in his mind he, Thought, okay that was, great
<v Speaker 3>that was kind of. FUN i got to crack up the.
<v Speaker 3>Cast but he didn't think he'd ever see it. Again
<v Speaker 3>and then when he watched the movie there it was,
<v Speaker 3>yeah and it's one of the great lines in the.
<v Speaker 3>Movie it's really, funny.
<v Speaker 1>Right and then to throw it back over To Major.
<v Speaker 1>League the assistant manager on that one Is Pepper leach
<v Speaker 1>played By Andy, romano who's just good AS i, mean
<v Speaker 1>he's just a good, COMPLIMENT i think to Lou, brown
<v Speaker 1>JUST i love that scene where they go both stand
<v Speaker 1>side by side next To jake and Have ricky throw
<v Speaker 1>it and they don't move an. Inch they look so.
<v Speaker 3>Awesome when he destroys the pepper, sign, yes he throws that,
<v Speaker 3>Pitch it goes over the catcher's, head destroys the pepper
<v Speaker 3>sign and he goes nice velocity sounded like.
<v Speaker 1>It, Yeah, okay before we move on to the love,
<v Speaker 1>interests let's just throw out the fact that there are
<v Speaker 1>a lot of similarities to these to some of the
<v Speaker 1>players here that are just side. Players so you got
<v Speaker 1>two voodoo guys and you got Two christian. Guys the
<v Speaker 1>voodoo guy For Bull durham Is jose who gets the
<v Speaker 1>curt his girlfriend puts the curse on his burst and live.
<v Speaker 1>Rooster have a live, reister, Right he's played By Rick.
<v Speaker 1>Marsam and then the Infamous Pedro serrano is played By Dennis.
<v Speaker 1>Haysbert oh my, gosh one of the best characters in
<v Speaker 1>all movies, ever but certainly in this In Major.
<v Speaker 3>League, okay so let's talk About Pedro serano for just a. Second,
<v Speaker 3>yeah for those of you who don't recognize this, GUY
<v Speaker 3>i mean he's around a. Lot he does all of
<v Speaker 3>The All state, commercials The All state, commercials the guy
<v Speaker 3>with the de. Boys he looks completely, different, yes without
<v Speaker 3>the goatee and the shaved. Head, right he was the
<v Speaker 3>president in twenty. Four have you've ever seen twenty? Four?
<v Speaker 1>Yep so here's something you, know all of these guys
<v Speaker 1>that they had come and play except For Wesley snipes
<v Speaker 1>had baseball, experience AND i don't really know What Dennis
<v Speaker 1>haysbert's experience, was but they said that every time he
<v Speaker 1>was supposed to hit a homer in the, movie he
<v Speaker 1>hit a.
<v Speaker 3>Homer. Right that's, incredible that's. Awesome like the reaction.
<v Speaker 1>That you see from everybody in the stands and everybody
<v Speaker 1>on the field is a genuine reaction to the fact
<v Speaker 1>that the actor just knocked it out of the.
<v Speaker 3>Park he was actually based on a real, Player Orlando. Sapata,
<v Speaker 3>yes guy from the, seventies known to be just kind
<v Speaker 3>of a big power and superstitious and. Superstitious.
<v Speaker 1>Yes and then we have Our christian players we have
<v Speaker 1>For Major league we Have Eddie, harris who is played
<v Speaker 1>By Chelsea, ross who's been in a bunch of. Stuff
<v Speaker 1>he was In Basic instinct and he was also one
<v Speaker 1>of the guys In.
<v Speaker 3>Hoosiers, yeah he was one of the, dads.
<v Speaker 1>Right and who had the player the Actor David neerdorf in.
<v Speaker 1>It who was the player In Bull Durham, bobby the
<v Speaker 1>one who gets cut from the. Team oh that's, Right
<v Speaker 1>oh that is.
<v Speaker 3>COOL i didn't recognize that.
<v Speaker 1>Guy, yeah he does. Well just before where he gets,
<v Speaker 1>cut but he's the one who's Asking jose to throw
<v Speaker 1>some magic on his back because he hasn't been able
<v Speaker 1>to hit all. Season but his improvement doesn't come soon
<v Speaker 1>enough and the organization has decided to go a different.
<v Speaker 3>Way, Okay So Eddie harris is based on real life
<v Speaker 3>Pitcher Gaylord, perry who was very well known to have
<v Speaker 3>all types of illegal substances all over the.
<v Speaker 1>Place so and then The christian For Bull durham Was,
<v Speaker 1>jimmy always wanting to give people his. Testimony Love jimmy
<v Speaker 1>such a sweet.
<v Speaker 3>Guy And Ron shelton talked about how every team he's
<v Speaker 3>ever been on there's always at least one religious, guy
<v Speaker 3>AND i love that they don't play him off as
<v Speaker 3>A he's.
<v Speaker 1>Not a Mockery. Chelsea Chelsea ross is there to be
<v Speaker 1>made fun, of for, Sure But, JIMMY i, mean people
<v Speaker 1>are snickering at, him but he's so genuine and delivers
<v Speaker 1>that part so well that it's not a. Mockery you're exactly.
<v Speaker 3>Right let's talk About harris for a, second Because harris
<v Speaker 3>is The christian, guy but you know he's he Steals
<v Speaker 3>Joe boo's rum and he does some things that are
<v Speaker 3>kind of Non. Christian BUT i Love Joe. BOO i
<v Speaker 3>love the fact that he gets in that holy argument
<v Speaker 3>With serrano when you know he's, like, well you, know
<v Speaker 3>you might think about Taking Jesus christ as your, savior
<v Speaker 3>and he's, like, ah, Hey SUE'S i like him very,
<v Speaker 3>much but he no helped me with the. Curveball you're
<v Speaker 3>trying to, Say Jesus, christ kid hit a. Curveball that
<v Speaker 3>is one of the best lines in that.
<v Speaker 1>Movie and the guy who Played jimmy And Bull durham
<v Speaker 1>also was With Charlie sheen in the Movie Hot.
<v Speaker 3>Shots all, right let's we ready to talk About susan, Standon,
<v Speaker 3>No i'm not ready to talk about her. Yet, okay
<v Speaker 3>let's talk about the announcers. First, okay.
<v Speaker 1>Okay so announcers For Bull durham Is, teddy who's played
<v Speaker 1>By Garland, bunting who was not in a whole lot
<v Speaker 1>of other, movies but he wasn't a movie Called, black
<v Speaker 1>which also Starred Lolita, davidovich who is the wife Of Rod.
<v Speaker 3>Shelton, yeah he was the director of that.
<v Speaker 1>Movie his delivery is. FINE i love to listen to
<v Speaker 1>him just because he's so dead. Band but just saying
<v Speaker 1>some of the most hateful things about the.
<v Speaker 3>Team let's tell it like it, is sports, Fans these
<v Speaker 3>dorm balls are playing like. Junk, YEAH.
<v Speaker 1>I love. It and then this Movie Major league would
<v Speaker 1>not be the same movie Without Harry, doyle, right.
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely Bob. Buker, yes, So Bob buker was a pro.
<v Speaker 1>Ballplayer and you, know like many athletes back in the,
<v Speaker 1>eighties Did miller like Commercials it's, great less Filling you remember?
<v Speaker 1>Those oh, yeah, Right So David ward knew him from
<v Speaker 1>those commercials and his other great acting, experience Mister, belvedere,
<v Speaker 1>right and he's, like, Hey i'd love for him to
<v Speaker 1>be the. Announcer he had no idea That Bob buker
<v Speaker 1>had been the announcer for The Milwaukee brewers for the
<v Speaker 1>last twenty.
<v Speaker 3>Years, yeah that's really. COOL i do remember his mill
<v Speaker 3>Of light.
<v Speaker 1>Commercials, yes he.
<v Speaker 3>Would he was this crazy fan in the stands and
<v Speaker 3>he'd be on the upper row and he'd be like
<v Speaker 3>he missed the tag and they'd come and get. Him he's, like,
<v Speaker 3>oh they're gonna move me to the front. Row. No
<v Speaker 3>the best line that he delivers is the just a
<v Speaker 3>bit outside.
<v Speaker 1>And that one's improved. Fantastic, Yeah ord was, like just
<v Speaker 1>do it like you would do. It just just call
<v Speaker 1>it like you would call a regular. Game he, would
<v Speaker 1>he'd find out what was you, know what the plays
<v Speaker 1>were that was going, on and he would call it
<v Speaker 1>like it. Was and then he also the bit where
<v Speaker 1>he takes the. WHISKY i, mean he's got a he's
<v Speaker 1>got liquor or beer in front of him in every single,
<v Speaker 1>scene but at one point he takes it and dabs
<v Speaker 1>it behind his, Ears, like well that's All Bob, uker all,
<v Speaker 1>RIGHT i am now ready to move on to the love. Interests,
<v Speaker 1>well let's talk About wesley times.
<v Speaker 3>Before we dive into the love. Interest let's talk About wesley.
<v Speaker 1>Steps, Okay So Wesley snipes was one of the few
<v Speaker 1>guys In Major league that did not have baseball.
<v Speaker 3>Experience, yeah he looked like an, athlete kind of acted
<v Speaker 3>like an. Athlete he looked a.
<v Speaker 1>Lot more like an athlete in later, movies like when
<v Speaker 1>you get Into blade And Demolition. Man in some of
<v Speaker 1>those movies he had, obviously you, know he'd gotten in
<v Speaker 1>contact With Charlie, sheen he'd muscled up a little.
<v Speaker 3>Bit but in this one he just kind of a
<v Speaker 3>skinny guy well, right and he's based on real life
<v Speaker 3>major league Player Ricky. Henderson Ricky henderson widely accept as
<v Speaker 3>being the best lead off player of all time and
<v Speaker 3>could steal bases like. WILD i mean just absolutely took
<v Speaker 3>bases at, will very very fast.
<v Speaker 1>Player SO i told You i'm not, Really i'm not
<v Speaker 1>a sports. Guy BUT i had an aunt who lived
<v Speaker 1>In Castro, valley which is just not too far From,
<v Speaker 1>oakland and so the Only Major league baseball games That
<v Speaker 1>i've seen have been The Oakland a's And i've seen
<v Speaker 1>him a couple, times and it was back in the,
<v Speaker 1>eighties and SO i had My Ricky Henderson tops cards
<v Speaker 1>along with Jose Can. Siko.
<v Speaker 3>Nice, yeah. Nice if you'll notice in the, movie you
<v Speaker 3>never See Wesley snipes throw the.
<v Speaker 1>Baseball right because it's terrible.
<v Speaker 3>Because he couldn't do. It he couldn't do it an
<v Speaker 3>throw a.
<v Speaker 1>Baseball he's an, actor, sorry he's not a not a
<v Speaker 1>not a. Baller and all of his running scenes are
<v Speaker 1>in slow, motion which is the way that he's able
<v Speaker 1>to look so, fast because he's really not that fast.
<v Speaker 3>Either WHEN i watched, IT i can tell he can't.
<v Speaker 3>HIT i can tell by looking at. Him he can't, hit,
<v Speaker 3>right but he looked fast. ENOUGH i, mean you looked
<v Speaker 3>fast enough to.
<v Speaker 1>Me so, yeah all, Right So Willie Mays. Hayes let's
<v Speaker 1>talk about this real. Quick So Willie may's baseball, player,
<v Speaker 1>right and he gets. Intro you, know he does the
<v Speaker 1>basket catch Like Willie mays. Does he does that and
<v Speaker 1>then nice catch. Catch hayes don't ever do it. Again,
<v Speaker 1>Right but the other, One, hayes is not a baseball.
<v Speaker 1>Player it took me forever to figure that.
<v Speaker 3>Out do you know, this, WELL i think he's that's
<v Speaker 3>his last, name, Right.
<v Speaker 1>No he's based on a on a football player whose
<v Speaker 1>last name Is, hayes whose first NAME i can't. Remember
<v Speaker 1>his name was. Bullet, oh Bullet Bob.
<v Speaker 3>Hayes, yes Bullet Bob.
<v Speaker 1>Hayes thank. You i'm glad you knew. That i'm Glad
<v Speaker 1>cowboys guy on. Here, yeah Bullet Bob. Hayes that was
<v Speaker 1>The hayes because he's you, know he says hits Like,
<v Speaker 1>mays runs Like. HAYES i couldn't figure out who the Heck. Hayes, oh,
<v Speaker 1>Yeah bob the Bullet. Hayes Bullet Bob.
<v Speaker 3>Hayes that's. Right he was The Dallas, cowboy very very
<v Speaker 3>very fast wide. Receiver, yeah maybe the fastest man in
<v Speaker 3>the world at the time he was playing For Dallas.
<v Speaker 1>Cowboys. Right and we shouldn't leave Out Roger dorn.
<v Speaker 3>Either Corbyn burdson Playing Roger, Dorn.
<v Speaker 1>Yes WHO i know From La. Law AND i actually
<v Speaker 1>don't know if he's been in anything else other than
<v Speaker 1>this movie In La. LAW i, MEAN i know that
<v Speaker 1>he was in the Other Major league, Movies Major League,
<v Speaker 1>Too There You, go And Major League THREE i, think
<v Speaker 1>Which i'm pretty sure That David ward just doesn't acknowledge
<v Speaker 1>as a movie at, all BUT i think he goes
<v Speaker 1>into ownership in one of. Those.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah So, doran that character he tries to, play he's
<v Speaker 3>kind of a lovable prima. Donna, yeah he doesn't want
<v Speaker 3>to do any of the extra. Work he doesn't want.
<v Speaker 3>To he's, like my contract, says IF i don't have
<v Speaker 3>to do any, KELSTONNIS i don't want to DO i
<v Speaker 3>don't have. To, yes he cares more about his golf
<v Speaker 3>game and his his stock, portfolio but he's still a likable. Guy.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah i'm Just i'm trying to remember the line when
<v Speaker 1>When serrano takes his golf, club warmer hats for.
<v Speaker 3>Bats that's for, bats keeps that. Warm hey, hey Hey. Pedrow, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>okay all, right are we?
<v Speaker 1>Ready and then hold, on before we get to our love,
<v Speaker 1>interests let's talk about our, Villain Rachel phelps real, quick
<v Speaker 1>because In Bull, durham we don't have a, Villain like
<v Speaker 1>there's just not one that's an interesting aspect of the.
<v Speaker 1>Story you don't have a villain in this. Story but
<v Speaker 1>In Major, league you've got. One and her name Is Rachel,
<v Speaker 1>phelps and she's the show girl who's trying to make
<v Speaker 1>the team the worst team in history so that she
<v Speaker 1>can move down To Tampa. Bay as it turns, out
<v Speaker 1>the way the script was originally written and they shot
<v Speaker 1>it this, way was that it was all just a
<v Speaker 1>ploy to give them like this movement to rally behind
<v Speaker 1>so that they would become a great, team and that
<v Speaker 1>her actual intention was to make them. Great audiences hated, it,
<v Speaker 1>WELL i hated. It oh, yeah it was.
<v Speaker 3>Terrible are you kidding? Me she's the villain the entire.
<v Speaker 3>Movie and at the very end she's, like, NO i
<v Speaker 3>just wanted you guys to.
<v Speaker 1>Win, yeah it's, ridiculous it, is and you, know we're
<v Speaker 1>looking at it from the way that we've seen the.
<v Speaker 1>Movie BUT i think probably what happened is once they
<v Speaker 1>had those test audiences, go, hey we didn't like her
<v Speaker 1>as a secret good. Guy we like her as the,
<v Speaker 1>villain and we want to keep her as a. VILLAIN
<v Speaker 1>i think at that point they went back and shot
<v Speaker 1>all of those scenes where she's where she's watching from
<v Speaker 1>up in the stands and griping and cheering at their
<v Speaker 1>losing and that kind of.
<v Speaker 3>Thing, yep when she they had to reshoot the scene
<v Speaker 3>where she's, LIKE i hate that effing song for. Me before,
<v Speaker 3>this but she was In secret Of My. Success she's
<v Speaker 3>the one she's always trying to Seduce MICHAEL. J fox
<v Speaker 3>in that.
<v Speaker 1>Movie was that the Ant?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah And, Beery oh my, GOSH.
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize. That that's. Fantastic oh, MAN i Love
<v Speaker 1>secret Of My. SUCCESS i can't BELIEVE i didn't realize.
<v Speaker 1>That even still thinking about, It i'm, like that's the same. Lady,
<v Speaker 1>wow that's. Crazy it's the.
<v Speaker 3>One Chasing brandley around the pool the whole. Time, yeah but,
<v Speaker 3>YEAH i love when the scene where they have a
<v Speaker 3>little pin up of her in the locker room and
<v Speaker 3>every time they win a, game they remove a piece
<v Speaker 3>of her. Clothing of. Course Former vegas. Showgirl, yeah of
<v Speaker 3>course you loved.
<v Speaker 1>It it was the. Eighties were pre teenagers at that.
<v Speaker 1>Point keep on.
<v Speaker 3>Winning, yeah all, right, guys that's gonna wrap it up
<v Speaker 3>for episode one Of Bullderm Versus Major. League, wait whoa,
<v Speaker 3>whoa whoa.
<v Speaker 1>Wa we didn't talk About. Susan she is on the
<v Speaker 1>list for. Today cross her.
<v Speaker 3>Off then all, right thanks, guys we will see you next.
<v Speaker 1>Week all music images and movie clips are used for
<v Speaker 1>the purposes of commentary and education in conjunction with The
<v Speaker 1>Fair Use agreement under THE us copyright.
<v Speaker 2>Law