Royal Liverpool Preview and Music + Golf with Micah Pueschel of Iration

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

00:00:02
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:00:05
Speaker 3: And when I find my.

00:00:05
Speaker 4: Ball in a brid egg Frida Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida eggagg bride egg.

00:00:11
Speaker 2: Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course. Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. I have to admit the Open Championship has somehow snuck up on me. I feel like I've been very busy with the US Women's Open, and all of a sudden we're here. We're basically on the eve of the Open Championship. So I wanted to get a little debrief on the golf course. It is uh, I haven't been to Royal Overpool, full disclosure, it's you know, honestly, I was thinking through it. It might be the last time that I've ever haven't been to a major championship course beforehand, so this will maybe be the last one where we won't have first hand takes. So one of the things I wanted to do was get some firsthand knowledge. Our guest today is Jasper Miners. He is the man behind a value eighteen dot com. It's a golf course architecture website. He's also doing some consulting work on some projects in the UK. Jasper has a very good architecture mind and is quite knowledgeable on Royal Liverpool, so it was a pleasure to speak with him about it. And I'm really really amped up. As I've dove into the course, I've gotten more and more excited. I think, you know, one of the things with the open road is you get these unique challenges and I think Royal Liverpool, you look at the winners, a lot of great names, you know, Peter Thompson, Tiger Rory among many others, but you know a lot of great names, a very interesting history, you know, where the golf courses constantly being changed, which is which is unique. But I think there's some some nice characteristics to it. It is. It is absolutely a test you got to be You got to drive the ball well, I think just from kind of my early digging into it, and you've got to be really smart with your t shot. It's not just driving it far, but it's also just being smart with it. And I love the back nine stretch where you get some really beautiful dunes land and I think kind of a little bit more dramatic. I think the the front nines kind of flatter, and that back nine gets into some nice students Lean So we'll talk way more about this. I will have a preview podcast with Kyle Porter that will go up on Sunday, So that'll be up in a couple of days, and that will be kind of an open preview. I know I didn't do my favorites heading into this one, but you know, I really like Scottie, I really like Rory, I really like cam Smith. Those are three names that I really like. And just in general, the open typically skews a little bit to experience. I think they have a little bit older age profile the most, So if you're thinking about that, look for some informed players that that have experienced and this should be really fun. I'm excited. And then in the second half of this podcast, I almost forgot our second guest. Now, how can I forget it? One of the great people that I've met through golf, and just for a little bit different flavor on this pod. We've had a lot of stuff going on. At some point we'll get into the Senate Committee hearings, but I figured this would be way more fun to have kind of a divergence if you're interested in the Senate Committee hearing. We did a big breakdown on the shotgun start Brendan Porth and I right after that that would be the Wednesday episode of this week was a big breakdown on that, so you can get a lot of analysis on that there. So just to be a little different. My second guest here is Micah Bouchelle. He is the lead singer and he plays a guitar too, in a band called Iration. They are kind of like a reggae band. They are delightful, delightful summer music. I cannot I can't tell you how many times I've had it on with like friends and they're like, oh, what is this? They're beating their head, what is this? And Micah is a golf nutt He's one of the one of the early people that I met through doing this and great guy. I complete golf Cicho and we just kind of talked about his life with golf and a little bit about music and golf and some parallels and some differences, and then just playing golf on tour. He had a epic golf trip that was tied to his tour, his most recent tour, so without further Ado here is Jasper and Micah and thank you for listening. We'll be back soon. And yeah, thank you. Now for a quick word from our sponsor ag One. Listen. There are very few things that I do every day, one of which is drink ag one. It really sets me up for the day. It's gotten me into a healthy routine. I've talked about this a few times on this podcast. Yes, you know, in ag one there's seventy five high quality ingredients that really give me the key daily nutrients and they support energy, focus, strength, and clarity. So one thing, you know, with this routine, getting into a routine has really helped me. I've started to go for morning runs and it's kind of like a it's a great routine. I wake up before anybody in my house is up. I pour my ag one in, get poor a little water in, and I'm off and going. And it gets a couple of things. It gets the water, but it also gets the nutrients in in my body. It gives me a little bit of energy and it makes me feel great. So I'm on. You know, I'm getting another healthy routine in there. But it all started with getting a routine with ag one. You know I'm building on my healthiness this year. So if a comprehensive solution is what you need from your supplement routine, then try ag one and get a free one year supply of Vitamin D and five free ag one travel packs with your first purchase. Go to drink ag one dot com slash the fried Egg. That's drink ag one dot com slash the fried Egg. Check it out and thanks to ag one for their support. Jasper, thanks for coming on. Uh and uh, I just uh, how you feeling these days with with the Open coming up and you know you have the Scottish Open going now, what's what's the general uh general feeling towards golf right now?

00:07:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean this is this is an exciting time for for golf in the UK because all the big players from state site come over, everybody starts to love golf. It almost seems like the world attention just slowly build until we get to the Open. So this year not so much with the Irish Open, Scottish Open, there's a graduate will build. You've got a lot of the big players that are playing down in London some of the Heathland courses, so it was nice to see I think at least three. Anyways, we're down at Sunningdale, so that's always good when we start to get.

00:08:11
Speaker 2: Some of the like a Justin Rose match. Justin Rose that played somebody down there.

00:08:16
Speaker 3: Forgot who it was, Yeah, I mean I've seen it was Speed and Fowler and a couple of others playing at Sunningdale. There's always a big meet up at Queenwood, which is an exclusive club just outside London, so there's quite a few there. So yeah, it seems like I don't know how to get around the country. It must be the private jets of the helicopters, because it seems like they're in North Berwrick one day and then you know, playing somewhere in Ireland and then back down to London. And yeah, however it works, but it's great because it brings the world's eyes and attentions to this year, especially golf in England, and I think England as a golf destination is.

00:08:55
Speaker 1: Woefully underrated, with all due respect to Scotland and Ireland.

00:09:01
Speaker 3: I mean there's some good, good golf in England. Yeah.

00:09:04
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the country as a whole doesn't have as much of a tourism dependency or or focus as as Scotland and Ireland. I think the those countries are are much much more likely and and eager to you know, get the get the influential Americans and different or not even Americans, influential UH foreigners over to UH to show them a good time, you know. And I think that and I think that obviously. I think the golf courses, the business models are a little bit different right where it's you know, they Scottish and Irish clubs are are very very dependent on on the you know, on the guest play, and in the English clubs, while hospitable maybe aren't aren't as dependent. Would you say that's a fair assessment.

00:09:59
Speaker 3: I think so, yeah. I mean it's interestingly, I mean Scotland and Ireland, it really seems like the game itself is democratized.

00:10:08
Speaker 1: You know.

00:10:08
Speaker 3: It's, let's be honest, golf, top tier golf in England, especially around London. Nothing is cheap in London, but then you add a little bit of exclusivity, and then you add a London premium to it. You you can spend quite a lot. If you can't get in the front door, you can't spend a lot playing golf in and around London. But that being said, there's like second tier, third tier courses that are absolutely astonishing that you don't have to break the bank force.

00:10:37
Speaker 1: So there's something for everyone.

00:10:39
Speaker 2: But you're right, well, give it, give us, give the audience, give a few hit, give it two or three hidden jams that you would you would urge people, you know, I think the thing that's need about London, which I think, I mean, Scotland and Ireland are great to bring anybody to, but one of the things about London, a London off trip is like you got stuff for everybody. I always make the argument the best golf trips are in cities because and they're so hard. There's so far and few in America that have good accessible golf, right but you know, London, like you're paying paying up for it, but like you're in one of the greatest cities in the world. Andy could play some of the greatest golf in the world and that's rare and it's.

00:11:22
Speaker 3: Accessible absolutely, So I mean, if you if you really wanted to hit the highlights you've got I mean Saint George's Hills. I've got a soft spot for that obviously.

00:11:33
Speaker 1: Gig there, Yeah, thanks very much.

00:11:36
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's really exciting to be working with Brian and Clyde and Angela and Chris, and then to be able to bring in a lot of the historical research that's nice too. But yeah, perhaps get on to that at some point. So I think Sunnydale Old and new Swinley Forest, of course, that's a little bit difficult to get on sometimes. Once you move past those, that's kind of your cult taken care of. You've got Wolton Heath and new some Fouler content for you there. You know, you can get into I think West Sussex. It cruises under radar and it's an absolutely brilliant golf course. And then just outside London, if you go down towards the coast, you've got lip Hook, which is quite a nice golf course. It's really really good. Tom Simpson and Arthur Croume a little bit of influence there. Hayley down on the south coast really good again, another Tom Simpson inspired design, or at least had some influence there. And then you get loads of different ones Blackmore, Hindhead. There's little pockets where you maybe get three, four or five golf courses within a couple of miles of each other, the three Ws in Woking, Warpless in Woking West Hill. You could add New Zealand onto that. Literally, you could spend months in London playing great golf at golf courses that most English people have never heard of.

00:13:00
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's a great city to be in and near.

00:13:03
Speaker 2: So that's that's awesome. I feel like I feel like London has the best claim to try and take on like New York and London or the are the two goliath of golf, right.

00:13:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I I've obviously not spent a lot of time in New York London. I've been able to spend quite a few years now, almost a decade taking off courses around here. Melbourne in Australia and the mornings in Peninsula is special. I mean this winter I got to play quite a lot of the kind of the big ones you'd want to go and see if you're an architectural buff. But then talking to the people that are down there, Mike Clayton and a few others, and then they say, well, next time we come back, we've got to play these, and again it's like London. There's another fifteen twenty twenty five course, and I think I'm gonna have to emigrate to Australia. So yeah, it's let's.

00:13:54
Speaker 1: See what happens.

00:13:55
Speaker 3: But we've got family in Australia, so we can spend hopefully spend a little bit more time there. And it's you know, you're not sure for hotels and all the rest of it all the time, so let's see what we can do next time we go.

00:14:04
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the magic things now about the Open having been over is that I think it evokes like a a nostalgia, a memories for everybody that have made trips over to the UK to play golf, and like you just you know, I was, I was reading and watching stuff on on Liverpool this morning and I, uh, there's a great cookie Jar video that just uh that went up a couple of days ago. They did a really good job. It's on YouTube. I would urge everybody to go watch it. The thing, yeah, the thing is, I got, you know, you get I just saw some of the scenes and it's like, oh God, that the dudesland when it gets into the dunesy stuff at Liverpool kind of reminded me of like my time at Mirfield, and you just get this this nostalgia. And we've been going through kind of like this all the stuff, Like I feel like we we use some of the stuff we captured last year, but we were going through all of it and posting some stuff and every time I'm just you know, it brings us warm and fuzzy feeling to you.

00:15:08
Speaker 3: Well, it's just it's yeah, it's pure classic golf. It's it's the way it was meant to be played and the ingredients that go into it are timeless.

00:15:16
Speaker 1: All the great golf courses share it.

00:15:18
Speaker 2: I do think one of the things too, that's really cool about the Open and and it's I feel like it's growing more and more this way as you see the best players in the world acting like tourists the week of the Scottish where they're running around and seeing stuff you've you talked about about Ricky and JT, Ricky and JT and Speeth playing Sunningdale like that. You know, a bunch of them out at North Barrick while they're in and in the Gullen area. You know, it's just like that that's usually combined to just Zach Blair during weeks like living out, but like there's something about about that that makes this time of year special. I remember a few years ago Brandon's brandon Stone after he shot I think he was leading the Open. It was at Carnoustie. He was then out at the old course playing with victories like that same day.

00:16:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is the thing that's great because I think what it does is it shows that golf, proper golf doesn't need to be played on seven six hundred yard you know, courses that are inaccessible to all of us and at a level of play that we can't you know, comprehend. You know, there's some videos going around today of Rory hittting a Percimon driver at Renaissance and talking about ball speed and launch angles and you know, equipment in But it's great because, you know, you see these individuals effectively going to golf courses because they want to see the golf, not necessarily because they want to play card and pencil golf where they're just trying to post course records. They're going there to see it for the love of the game. And there's nothing better for the game than see these top tier guys literally transverse in the country to see some of the greatest It's out there, and so for us, I think it's important that fans of the game see that there's a lot more to golf outside of just those venues that perhaps the tours go to week and week out. And an open season, yeah, it opens every year. Bring bring the golf, to bring golf to courses that are accessible to all.

00:17:20
Speaker 1: Of us, and Liverpool is one of those.

00:17:23
Speaker 2: I might make a campaign for for a month over there, just so I can selfishly spend a month over there for for work.

00:17:30
Speaker 1: You know that way it's reasonable, isn't it.

00:17:32
Speaker 3: I mean, it's absolutely it's Yeah, it needs to be done. Look, it's it's part and parcel of with what you do for a living. It's you know, it's not even an option. You just have to make it happen.

00:17:44
Speaker 2: Maybe next year. I say that every year, and then last year that way that I wasn't going to get there, but then I got wrapped up with with lost of the US Open, US Women's Open, go to Pebble, and then all of a sudden you start to look at the calendar and it's like, ah, this would be crazy if I went, so.

00:18:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll get it in early and let's see where we're going.

00:18:04
Speaker 2: I know next year for sure, maybe later this year, maybe we'll see sounds good. Kind of a kick, a kick of myself for not being out there right now. So let's let's get into Royal Liverpool.

00:18:15
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

00:18:17
Speaker 2: Uh you you obviously have a uh you know, you do a lot of historical stuff. I'd love to hear. I think it's got a pretty unique history and it's you know, a historical significance of a place is very it has just a ton of history in terms of significance, and then a very interesting architectural history. So I'd love if you kind of dove into those two topics.

00:18:46
Speaker 1: Sure.

00:18:46
Speaker 3: So, I mean, I guess we'll set the record straight straight away. I mean there are individuals that know Hoylake inside and out. I mean a good friend of mine, Joe Joe McDonald, you know, walking encyclopedia about it. So I don't want to put a.

00:18:59
Speaker 2: Sick is coming on the pod next week.

00:19:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the right man to get So so if I if I, if I do message, I think up, you'll put me right next week. I'm seeing them next week Tuesday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

00:19:11
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna spend some time together.

00:19:13
Speaker 2: So going to the tournament.

00:19:15
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, We've got a little event society that I'm a part of is having an event Tuesday night up at the club and then Wednesday will we'll get in a practice day, see the course and see some of the players. So yeah, it's gonna be a good couple of days. And like you say, with the exception of your fine self, the world has come to Hoylake this year, so you know, the Gulf world, so it's it's always a good week to see some people and make some connections and have some good chats. So it's good.

00:19:44
Speaker 1: But yeah, with regards to the history, you know, it's I think for me.

00:19:49
Speaker 3: The real drive to getting to know Hoylake better was the cult connection. So early on, obviously you had Chambers and Morris eighteen sixteen kind of started out nine holes and twelve, but it was really Cult in twenty three post World War One, who kind of formulated and kind of got things to effectively the framework that you know, we kind of understand the course to be today. And there was a lot of you know, world class holes that if it hadn't fallen off the Rota probably more of us would would know of you know, you look back at what Tom Simpson had to say, renowned golf course architect about the Old Course and Hoylake, and it was almost like he held them in the same esteem, neck and neck. But because it wasn't front and center, especially with the American audience for so many years, and it was based in England rather than Scotland, perhaps it isn't as well known. But there was some crack and holes at hoy world class.

00:20:56
Speaker 1: So you had two.

00:20:58
Speaker 2: That were removed, and I've seen it. I've seen people compare it to like Augusta lose I say, I think ranmore set compared it to like Augusta losing two of his best holes, or the Old Course losing seven and eleven, like I've you know, and.

00:21:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's to that extent, I mean, to the point where Tom Doakan is confidential guide, you know, basically included one of the holes that no longer exists at Hoylake in one of his like top tier golf holes. I mean, it was so good that he's basically waxy and the lyrical about it and it doesn't even exist anymore. I mean the hole that's there. So it was called Dowie. It was a renowned par three that basically had out of bounds like rate on the left hand side of the green, and it was so potent that it was just too much even for the pros to handle. So I think for the the open to the Vincenzo one, they made a local rule and kind of changed where the boundary of out of bounds was, and then eventually prior to two thousand and six, I believe if they took it, kind of took the hole out or changed it so that they could basically have a different hole in play. So that that was one that the golf course architectural world laments as one of the great holes that's been lost on one of the great courses is Dowie. The other one that kind of comes to mind is Royal.

00:22:20
Speaker 2: Real quick, you know, with Dowie and people are hearing about the out of bounds being pushed up against it. Of the one of the defining characteristics of this golf course is out of bounds, correct.

00:22:33
Speaker 3: That's right? Yeah, So it comes into play on quite a few holes, admittedly not as much as it used to. And I think the misconception that happens a lot is that out of bounds it's kind of just a weird local thing that they have at Liverpool and it's, you know, just a carryover tradition type thing. I think if you listen to anything that Joe's been on and kind of explained, you'll see that he's quite adamant about the fact that effectively the course on the club hired land from from the landowner, and effectively where the practice ground is now that that still makes up out of internal out of bounds on. Well, it's the first hole and the last hole. Well, yeah, getting mixed.

00:23:19
Speaker 2: Up with the third. The third hole for the tournament is normally the first hole for the for the golf course, and this is where you're immediately hit without a bounds, right, that's right.

00:23:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, So members first, Open, third, and then you've got members sixteenth, Open, eighteenth that kind of runs around the practice ground and it's an absolutely brilliant golf hole.

00:23:45
Speaker 1: It's interesting.

00:23:47
Speaker 3: I remember to quote from from Tom Simpson and effectively what he said it was in the architecture side of golf, which is basically my bible. So so yeah, he basically talks about Hoylake the first hole being like this amazing hole of incredible significance. But what he liked about it was that you effectively have to call your shot either you have to play.

00:24:10
Speaker 1: Away from it on the Yeah. And what's good about it?

00:24:15
Speaker 2: Mess it around right out of the game.

00:24:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're playing stroke play and and it's card and pencil golf, I mean, you could literally ruin your card on the first hole without much bother. It's you know, and it's been done many times. I haven't put I've played the I've played the chorus a handful of times and visited a few times more. I spent a lot of time researching it and chatting about it with Joe and Sam and all the rest of them. So I've never gone out on the drive and out of bounds, but I have put a ball out on the approach. And that's the thing because the because the out of bounds line is to the right side of the green on on one as the members played are three as the open will be played. If you shy away from the out of bounds and your t shot, more than likely you're going to have to face a shot towards it on your approach. So whether it's it is, Yeah, And at some point you just got to you've got to take that bite. It's it's there, it's looking at you in the face and either got to face it on your t shot or on your approach it. It's one or the other, and it's just a matter of when you're going to take it on. But it's it's an incredibly great hole. It'll be interesting to see how the pros take the line off the tee because it is very much it's a little bit like the road hole that way, you can bite off as much as you like, but a lot of it it's gonna have to do with wind, and it'll be interesting to see how those stands affect the wind as well in that hole. So yeah, that's going to be.

00:25:41
Speaker 1: An exciting one.

00:25:41
Speaker 3: Third hole is always great, whether you're playing it or watching it.

00:25:44
Speaker 2: I think the thing that is interesting like out of internal out of bounds as it is now, but at the time you know it was out of bounds. It was a property line effectively, and I think like it always sparks a fair police eight, you know, where you know the concept of fair is going to enter the chat just as soon as as soon as somebody hits one out of bounds and it's you know, you can see there's like a grand stand there, and you're gonna be like, wait a second, like why is this out of bounds? But this is the way it was, Like, you know, the job of a golfer is to overcome the challenge that's presented in them in front of them. And I think, like, you know, I'm not like a big out of bounced guy, I'm not trying. This is not me grand standing for out of bounce.

00:26:31
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone would know, but out.

00:26:35
Speaker 2: Of bounds is the most penal of penalty and it has a incredible effect on professional golfers who are conservative players, like the best players are generally very conservative golfers, like, so this this has a massive impact on how they play the hole. And one of the things that I was taken aback by it's just how pressed up against the green the outer boundces. So if you are left and you're in the in the rough in particular, you are going to not have control of your golf ball, and that out of bounce is going to be so so in your purview. And that's what I think. The brilliant thing about this hole is really is like the idea or like if you're going to bite off some but you don't bite off as much as you as you can. The same problem presents itself because you are going to run through to the left edge, you know maybe and even from there, you know, to certain pins, it's going to be a factor. It's really it's a fascinating hole. And you know, listen, like, I'm not like big on out of bounds, but I think it it has a really fun place in golf, especially in high stakes tournament golf, because you know this, this is something that really dissuades the top end players.

00:27:57
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you can make an argument for it, you say, I mean, there's there's a lot of great golf courses, especially this side of the Pond, that make brilliant use of out of bounds as a strategic feature. I mean, everybody loves the road hole for obvious reasons. T shots exciting, I mean, the approaching is phenomenal. One of the greatest golfles, if not the greatest golf hole you know ever, the third or the first, however you want to call it. At Hoylake is another one of those that makes good use of it. You think about the amount of holes, even say Carnoustie Hogan's Alley the left hand side out of bounds. You can hit basically the left third of that fairway and still get a shocking bounce like out of bounds. So yeah, there's no.

00:28:41
Speaker 2: The that famous alt walking. Yeah for for example, Yeah, due to the railway line.

00:28:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:28:48
Speaker 3: So, I mean you see it over and over and over again, and maybe that's why here as opposed to you know, and I can straddle that line.

00:28:57
Speaker 1: I've been here long enough.

00:28:58
Speaker 3: I understand the concept of these things now and studied it here.

00:29:03
Speaker 1: We're at home, you know.

00:29:04
Speaker 3: Growing up in Canada, out of bounds was like wow, you you really did something stupid if you found out of bounce, you know so, But.

00:29:12
Speaker 1: But here it's regular and it's normal.

00:29:14
Speaker 3: Stroking distance has definitely affected that the rule change, but so long ago now, but yeah, it's it's it's one of those things that effects plays at Liverpool at Hoylake seven, not so much as it did obviously on on Dowie, but then again the final hole. I mean recently there was a video of.

00:29:35
Speaker 1: Who was it.

00:29:37
Speaker 3: Padrick Harrington who went driver driver to finish off and you're thinking to yourself like, yeah, six hundred plus yards with perhaps a side wind blowing to you towards out of bounds, and then you've got to cut the corner again. You got this massive amphitheater with stands all around it. It's going to be an incredible hole to finish on.

00:29:59
Speaker 1: Before we got on, I was try to trying to think.

00:30:00
Speaker 3: I didn't know which holes would be used for the playoff if there is a sudden death playoff, so four hole aggregate and then sudden deaths.

00:30:08
Speaker 1: But it wouldn't be amazing to.

00:30:10
Speaker 3: See something like you know, eighteen as it's being played in three being again. So yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how it all comes into it.

00:30:20
Speaker 1: But another hole that was really yet go ahead.

00:30:22
Speaker 2: Oh, before we get to the other lost hole. I I you know you've you've brought this up a couple of times, and you know, Win, it's a very exposed place. And what happens when the wind kicks up at Liverpool?

00:30:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean it's what was it? It was Bernard Darwin.

00:30:40
Speaker 3: I mean the favorite, the famous quote of Darwin. Bernard Darwin was.

00:30:49
Speaker 1: Combining words, it's late.

00:30:50
Speaker 3: For me, that's that's my Darmon and Darwin to Bernard Darwin.

00:30:54
Speaker 1: There we got it out.

00:30:55
Speaker 3: Eventually. Hoylake is blown upon by mighty winds but also a brief of mighty champions. So the fact is that it is an exposed site. The prevailing wind is from the lighthouse, so effectively, as you go out to the far end of the course, it could play with you. So that might come into play on the What we've played is the tenth for the open, the eighth which is far, so that's quite a long usually part five for members par fourger in the open probably won't be as difficult for the tour guys because of the length that they all possess, especially if the wind is blowing with them. But if you get the wind against you on a hole like that, especially with that green, it's quite small and there is a horrible bunker front, right, I mean, if you're in that, yeah, it can reak havoc. So it'll be interesting to see if the prevailing wind sticks that back. Then on Sunday is going to be interesting because as soon as you turn that corner you've got a string of holes basically four holes that you could be playing right into the teeth of that wind, and then the seven is.

00:32:08
Speaker 2: Over those holes are over some of the choppiest terrain. You're going to probably get the most uneven lies in that part. I think that's where you know, in watching the video, stuff gets it gets fairly dramatic out there and playing into the wind and that stretch of holes, it presents more challenges also in just the lies you're going to get.

00:32:31
Speaker 3: Well absolutely, I mean you once you get down to that end of the course basically playing into the duneland, that stretch of holes once you make the turn. So during the open eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen basically plays along a dune ridge and you kind of play alongside of it and then you play up and off of it and then back into it.

00:32:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of holes that kind of play ridged ridge holes, right.

00:32:56
Speaker 1: And that'll be the interesting one.

00:32:57
Speaker 3: So some of them obviously you can you know, you're kind of playing off the off the dune, but then you have to attack it and go back into it. So you know the famous shot that Tiger hit with the fore air and I think and he sunk it for you know, got an eagle on the par four whichuld.

00:33:14
Speaker 2: Be is that fourteen?

00:33:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, well twelve as members play at fourteen as the Open would play it. But I think that's that's definitely in the discussion for me as probably the best hole on the golfers.

00:33:27
Speaker 1: Hillbury.

00:33:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for me that's that's when you always get excited to play. You know it's coming and you always look forward to it. It's an absolutely brilliant golf.

00:33:36
Speaker 2: It feels like a very pretty narrow golf course in terms of you know, just like you you really have to there's there's a certain like just looking at it, it's narrow. But then it also the way fairways move and you know they create these it creates a lot of angles that make the effect of narrowness even in more like placement of shots is extremely important. It's more it feels like control is imperative here.

00:34:11
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's the point. You know, you talked about the effect of wind. So you know famously Tiger basically hit one driver when he won in was it two thousand and six, And it's like, you know, to go around to two and three irons off the tees. And I think one word that keeps coming up is plotting. Not and it's not that it's target golf, because it's not.

00:34:34
Speaker 5: It's not like, you know, let's hit a number and then walk up to it and hit another number again.

00:34:39
Speaker 3: Because you're right, it's firm, it's fast. You have to think about what the ball is going to do after it hits the ground. With that in mind, though, it is very strategic, so you do have to think your way around the golf course. And and you're right, the fair way with isnt expansive, you know, it's not massively wide. Sometimes we would we would basically equate with you know, strategic golf with the angles and all that kind of stuff. But anytime I've ever played it, I've never walked off thinking that, you know, these are incredibly tight fairways with really penal rough. You know, I know a course that you played and that I've played, Mirrorfield. You know, sometimes you venture off literally a yard off the fairway and you think to yourself, well, you know, I don't even have a shot here, so you know, and part of that too, is is conditioning. I think the the the lead up to the Open, it was really dry in May. In June in the UK and and the World Peninsula usually is drier than most places. They have got a little bit of moisture. The last few weeks, and I think they've got the agronomy in a situation where if they need to use a little bit of extra moisture, artificial or otherwise, that they'll be able to control it and present the course the way that they want to. So it's it's probably not going to be a two thousand and six where basically there's this massive puff of dirt and dust when you when you take a divot. There's probably not going to be twenty sixteen where yeah, with with Rory, you know, there's not going to be large chunks of turf coming out, I don't think, but it'll be probably somewhere in between, because it looks like the weather's going to hold. But you're right, it's going to be the It's going to be the ball strikers, the ones that can control spin in trajectory, especially on the new seventeenth.

00:36:27
Speaker 2: Let's get back to the other lost hole, then we'll get to the new hole.

00:36:31
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, So it's an interesting one because the last hool, I mean, I think we're both referring to Royal, which is going to play as the opening hole for the Open, but is the penultimate hole when you're playing it as a member or a visitor, so seventeen. So basically the green used to be right upside what is for all intense purpose is an extremely flat piece of land. So any type of intrigue or or jeopardy or any type of interest had to be manufactured, and they did it amazingly well with a dog lake right to left, with this green right pushed up against it, with some really really strategic bunkering, so effectively, again, the you know, the formula for good strategic golf is risk and reward. You know, the closer you get to that wall, the better line you can have in and if you don't, if you play conservatively, then you can have a really testing shot over some bunkers. So that unfortunately, that hole, as good as it was, was.

00:37:35
Speaker 1: Modified.

00:37:35
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say lost, because effectively the hole is still there. It's still called royal. It's just that the green was brought in from effectively beside right beside the road a little bit in hand to give it a little bit of a buffer because of health and safety. So it's still there, but it's been slightly neutered. I would say, if that's a description, what.

00:37:58
Speaker 2: Those two holes can they both easily be recaptured if the if the club wanted it.

00:38:04
Speaker 3: Well, I think so yeah, I mean they're both there. You'd have to reinstate obviously internal out of bounds for the old DOWI, which would be controversial I don't know to the members, but at least to the rest of the golfing world. I think at some point, especially the pros, had to come back and play.

00:38:18
Speaker 2: I just love a par three. What's just out of bounds?

00:38:23
Speaker 1: It's a crazy concept really for us.

00:38:25
Speaker 3: Now, back that it wasn't, but for us now it seems like really odd and royal would be phenomenal.

00:38:32
Speaker 2: Like the beauty of golf architecture, the beauty of the of the Open Rota. I think like, and I think we're sometimes My frustration with the US Open lies is like, you know, the US Open so often goes to courses and then the identity becomes the US Open identity versus that that world class course that they're going to, and I think, like, what's super fun about? Like, I feel like a lot they're if this was a PGA Tour event, right, this was just like the Scottish Open that's being now run by the PGA Tour and the European Tour, right, they would remove the encourse out in course out of bounds because they would say this isn't but like what I love about this, there's like a cheekiness to it. There's a playfulness, there's a uniqueness, a you know, and it's it's variety. What what we want out of our venues is variety. And that's you know, that's what makes golf so awesome is that we have all these different courses that fields effectively as any other sport, and each field has this unique quirks and and and challenges that you have to overcome. Here, you know, there was more out of bounds, but out of bounds is a central theme.

00:39:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not going to change, you know, to use an expression, it is what it is. And if you don't like it, well tough because it's not gonna be changed for you. And the fact that they haven't changed it for arguably the world's you know, the greatest golf tournament. It's it's one of those things where there's there's still a little bit of like I love it, uh And of course I'm not a member at at at Royal Liverpool, so yeah.

00:40:16
Speaker 2: That's that's good. That's see. That's that's a that's a good you're a non biased party. You know, you bring a member on here and you got you got bias problems.

00:40:27
Speaker 3: Well, but I love the fact that you've got this entity that's effectively saying, yeah, you can come and play your tournament here, but just remember like this is our golf course, and this is the way it's played. And of course they change the routine and you know that or the way that it's it's played. The holes are all there and you can still play them. But I love the fact that effectively the golf course that you go and play to like the Monday after the tournament is exactly what you're going to play, you know what what you see on Telly so and and that includes all of its quirks. And that's the beautiful thing about golf. I think in the UK that I really like is that you get that in Space so and Links golf especially, but even Inland. You know, you talked about Woki, you know, and there's some great common Land golf courses where you get to courses like Mentioning, Hapten or Painswich that are just blow it'll blow your mind with regards to what you think golf is because you step up to some of these holes and you think, really, we're really going that way, we're really doing that, we're going over this, we're through that. But it's fine because that's just the way that they've done it, and that's the way that they're going to continue to do it. And yeah, we'll just embrace it, which is which is great. It's it's one of the special things about golf over here is that it's not formulaic.

00:41:46
Speaker 1: It is what it is.

00:41:47
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's something to be said about like the the era in which golf courses were made and why they aren't formulaic was like it wasn't a profession, it wasn't a you know, and this is not a shot at modern designers, but you know, it was amateurs and like the there is like a sense of unrefinement to them. And I think like one of the one of the things that and before we talk about the seventeenth like one of the tough things about what's happening with a lot of golf courses is the is that there's being more refinement put into them. And you wonder how much of the original, like luster and soul is brought into that, you know. So with that, obviously Mackenzie and Ebert architects that have worked all over the UK, some in Canada too, they have been consulting with the club as they do with many of the RNA golf courses that are in tournament RODA, and they have installed a yet another new hole for Royal Liverpool. Tell us about the seventeenth. It's a part three.

00:42:58
Speaker 3: Yes, so seventeenth so basically replaced the rushes which was a part of three that basically was on the same piece of land, but when in the opposite direction. So they've effectively like done a one to eighty. And actually, just before I came on, I was scrolling through Twitter and there's a video that came out with Martin Ebert and from the Horse's Mouth he said that the reason why he built it was because the RNA and the club were effectively wanted a dramatic finish and boy are they going to get it. It's an interesting one because I think when it was first constructed with what has become a Mackenzie and Ebert hallmark or trademark, with these open sandscrapes, you know, you get this, it's an amazing golf especially from the aerial drone footage, and it's going to look really really good on Telly, especially with the sunset and all the rest of it. They're going to get some incredible shots that are going to show off Royal Liverpool Hoylake World in a way that it's never been done before.

00:44:02
Speaker 1: When it first came out, it felt like it was.

00:44:08
Speaker 3: I don't say not in keeping, but I think as they've export exposed more sand on the dunes land, it started to feel more accepted, you know, because they've opened up sand and captured sand and use sand and from from the dunes that you play from well what will be eleven three to fourteen.

00:44:28
Speaker 2: So you'll notice the very the dramatic bunkering. And I think this is something that as a as a casual onlooker from the States, who you know, you can't comment a lot of on places that you haven't been, but this seems to be a very a very standard practice from Mackenzie and Eebert where they they do the sandscrape, you know, essentially like a sandscrape exposed a bunch of sand and it really gives a different look.

00:44:58
Speaker 1: Right, It's a massive contrast.

00:45:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, not especially especially different than the front nine of the same golf course, where it's very flat and there isn't there aren't necessarily all these places to do this right where you know they've continued. You can see it, especially in videos. If you look, you'll see just a different style bunker. And that's really what it is. When that bunker shows up and everyone will see it this week. That is a new thing that's been brought to the course by Mackenzie and Eber.

00:45:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's I mean long on that hole. So it's not a long hole. It's about one hundred and forty yards and anything long is dead. I mean there is. I've played the whole handful of times. I've never been long, and I don't think most people usually are in golf. We all think we hit it longer than we do, so we don't usually mise it long. And that's a good thing on that whole.

00:45:52
Speaker 1: It's a really good thing.

00:45:54
Speaker 3: It's a little bit like the original concept of the eat and that Saint Andrews. It's like, Yeah, you can't be long because that's dead. You can't be short because that's dead too. Oh and if you're left or right you'll probably be in some really terrifying bunkers, so there's really.

00:46:09
Speaker 1: No safe miss.

00:46:11
Speaker 3: You know, you basically just have to hit the shot to the middle of the green. The way that the bunkers work often like left, you end up in a bunker and again prevailing wind, you should have that out of the bunker into the wind, which might help. The right bunker is deep. It's pretty intense. The other thing to say about the bunkers, which is really interesting, and I've James bledg who's the course manager. I've listened to him a couple of times on a few bits and pieces. Effectively, they're raking the bunkers so that there's no ball in the bottom of them. So the ball, if it just trundles off the lip or rolls. Let's say you hit the green and it catches one of the slopes and it just falls over the edge of the bunker down the revetment. There's a good chance that it could stay literally the revetment at the bottom of the bunker and almost been ninety degree angle. And likewise the other way, you could eventually just get this like ball to trendle and just aside it drops off and you've got this, you know, so you can't you can't a dance.

00:47:12
Speaker 1: The ball forward.

00:47:12
Speaker 3: You might have to go out sideways or even in the wrong direction to get it out.

00:47:17
Speaker 2: I was I was taxing. I was taxic with a player who played in the last open there, and he was telling me that it is vitally important to avoid bunkers at Hoylake like and obviously, you know, if you think about Tigers two thousand and six, that was a big, big part of his strategy. But he put an emphasis on avoiding bunkers at all costs.

00:47:42
Speaker 3: And I think that it kind of comes back to what we said before about it's the type of golf course that you've got to plot your way around. You know, there's mattake, you know, massive drives and then try and.

00:47:52
Speaker 1: Chop out just not going to work.

00:47:54
Speaker 3: And I think what they're trying to do as well is make sure those bunkers are one shot penalties. If you find one, like you're not going to have a half shot where you can kind of take a nine iron, get it down the fairway and you know, try and make part like, no, that's going to cost you a shot.

00:48:07
Speaker 2: It's hard for guys to do that too. I mean it's hard for any competitive player to not try and get everything they want. They can't. They think they can out of a shot and just understand that I chip it out sideways and this was a hazard that I was in. And that's I think one of the things that's my favorite aspects of the Open Championship is that there is real penalty with bunkers.

00:48:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I think it's going to live up to its Billy. I mean, some of those bunkers with three vetments they have, especially with the way they're presenting them, not bulling them out, but keeping them flat in the bottom. I mean, it wouldn't be surprising to me if you had massive shifts come Sunday with the pressure on going to seventeen. You know the potential, especially if that wind is swirling are coming in, you know, you could easily. You know, you talk the Thomas Bjorn affair at at Sandwich. You know there's there's there's.

00:49:07
Speaker 1: Every possibility that that could happen.

00:49:09
Speaker 3: Again. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Well, look, you know who's to say, but it certainly will be dramatic if if it goes down that way, and you know, it's going to make for great primetime telling.

00:49:21
Speaker 1: It's it's going to be an interesting hole.

00:49:23
Speaker 3: And even if the leaders in a tight race come down to seventeen and they all pitch it into the middle of the green, that we're all going to be holding our breath when they take.

00:49:31
Speaker 1: That t shot.

00:49:32
Speaker 3: So it's, uh, it's going to be an interesting one to see how it all plays out. I was thinking about this earlier though, and to bring it back to what we said about Dowie was effectively an incredible difficult incredibly difficult and some would even say penal golf hole, and it'd be interesting to see what the result is of that as we look back on the seventeenth and and it's the role that it will play in this Open Championship. And not to forget that the spirit of Hoylake, that there was some pretty severe holes that some of us like architecturally historical kind of you know, romantically look back and think about Dalai and Royal and how great those greens would be to put.

00:50:18
Speaker 1: Back, and.

00:50:21
Speaker 3: Well, guess what, we've got a version of something like that of seventeen now.

00:50:25
Speaker 1: And I think that's tempered me.

00:50:27
Speaker 3: So I'm reserving judgment I've played the whole a few times. I don't think I've ever blown up on that hole. I've definitely bogied it. I think I might have parted. But yeah, it's one of those where it could go horribly wrong, or it could be a non event where they just pitch it to the middle of the green and walk away. But it's going to be cool to see what happens.

00:50:50
Speaker 2: One of the neat things I will say about the sand scrapes that they've done is they've mined them for tap dressing sand, which I think is they've saved a ton of money by using their own own sand on property, which I think is pretty pretty wise and economical. I know James Blodge, the superintendent there are it does a really great job.

00:51:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's really look in the in the UK especially. I don't know what the laws are like, uh in the US, but things are getting more and more difficult here when.

00:51:26
Speaker 5: It comes to golf course agronomy in particular use of chemicals and and and rightfully, so you just have to find different ways to do what we've always done.

00:51:38
Speaker 3: That being said, you know things like carbon talx and mining on site and the ecology benefits of it, you know, those like you say, if he, if he could operate in the romantic world of historical golf course architecture and just do what you wanted, when you wanted, how you wanted to get, it'd be great, and it would be love to be great to live in that fantasy world. But we're one hundred years removed from it. You know, this is not nineteen twenty three with Harry Cult at Hoylake. You know, this is you know, this is twenty twenty three. So what they what they've done is really clever. They have masses of sand at Hoylake, which is really good. But there's a lot of golfers golf courses in the UK that you can struggle moving forward, So a lot of the big quarries are running out. Yeah, we're just gonna have to find different ways to do it. But yeah, to have that asset on site to do what they've done, yeah, is really clever, really really good.

00:52:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. So last question before I get yeah out of here, I guess if you could distill Hoylake's kind of essence and how that relates to other open road to courses, if you could just you know, kind of distill like when you when I ask you about Hoylike, what is the first thing that pops in your mind.

00:52:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's It's not a disservice. It's actually very much a compliment. As you know, I'm a massive fan of Saint Andrew's, the old course. It is the the thing, the greatest golf course in the history of the game on so many levels, and Hoylake for me, is not far off Saint Andrews because the type of golf course that it is, it doesn't just resemble the golf course. A lot of people say, well, it's flat like Saint Andrews, but again I think that's a bit of a simplistic view. I think for me, it's a cerebral golf course. You have to think your way around it, and I think that's why Tom Simpson loved it so much. And the more that I've been there, the more time I've spent with guys like Joe and Sam who talk about it intimately that they have a knowledge of it, you realize that it's the type of golf course that gives its secrets away through extended play and thought, and any golf course that you can play for your entire lifetime and only get more excited about that's a pretty.

00:53:53
Speaker 4: Good golf course.

00:53:54
Speaker 3: Those are the best course absolutely, I mean and literally that's it makes lakes golf so good. Just the nature of the property, firm, fast running wind every day.

00:54:05
Speaker 1: Is different for me.

00:54:07
Speaker 3: Hoylake is all the good things of great links golf, but as well you have like these extra bells and whistles, not quirky stuff, but the things like you know, just the history of the club. It's it's intimate association with the amateur game. It's integral to the growth of the game as it came out of Scotland into England and then and then further afield. There's so much too Hoylake that makes it more than just a great golf course. And I think as it continues to host more and more Open championships, you know, twenty thirty, forty fifty years from now, we're going to start to deepen our respect for Hoylake and I think we will talk about it very much in the same way that we talk about, you know, places like Saint Andrew's and Merefield. It's got all the history, all the class, all the elegance and all the strategy of those places, but.

00:55:06
Speaker 2: It's got the winners list, maybe the best winners list.

00:55:10
Speaker 3: Well absolutely, I mean you you know, Tiger, Rory Hagen, Jones, Peter Thompson, Thompson, I mean, you just can't beat it. I mean it identifies great golfers, great champions and at the end of the day, these are guys that can control the ball, they control spin, trajectory, they're ball strikers and they're smart. They've got mental prowess that against most people beat themselves at Oi Lake. But I think we'll see we'll see an amazing tournament this year, and I think the golf course will will give us everything that we want from it. It's going to be a great Open Championship and an absolutely brilliant venue, and it will be the first of many to come, I'm sure.

00:55:53
Speaker 2: All right, Jasper, people can find your work your E Value eighteen, that's E V A l U eighteen, the number eighteen dot com and your Value eighteen on social media and thank you so much. We'll have to do more of these on different topics in the future.

00:56:14
Speaker 3: Brilliant. Yeah, I look forward to it. Thanks so much, Andy, It's been absolutely brilliant. Thanks again for the invite. And spending well whatever your precious time was, Yeah, fifteen minutes, so yeah, really look forward to it.

00:56:26
Speaker 2: One for your precious time. I'm just a podcaster with nothing.

00:56:30
Speaker 1: To do with just no no, I appreciate it.

00:56:33
Speaker 3: It's good.

00:56:33
Speaker 1: So thank you so much again, Really appreciated that it's been. It's been a privilege.

00:56:44
Speaker 2: Now for a quick word from our sponsor, the USGA. Well, a lot of attention is paid to the USGA's biggest championships, like the US Open and the US Women's Open. The USJA hosts fifteen championships throughout the year to provide golfers of all levels platform to showcase their skill. This week we had the second ever US Adaptive Open. This is on my bucket list of events to attend this year. I was, I was at the US Women's Open, and I was kind of jealous of all the USBA folks that were heading out back to Pinehurst to attend the Adaptive Open. This is I mean, you want to talk about growing the game, this is this is essentially growing the game giving you know, every type of golfer a chance of playing for a national championship. So with Adaptive Open, it's giving the world's best adaptive golfers an opportunity to compete. You know that is that is awesome and something I support. Holy So if you support the usba's mission of celebrating all that the game that makes it special, join the USBA. Become a member. You get a bunch of things, a slew of the benefits, a bag tag, a hat. You can either get the LACC or the pebble, and you get you know your money's going to good causes such as supporting things like the adaptive Open their Water program, all sorts of different things. The way to join is you go to USGA dot org slash frieda Egg. That's USGA dot org slash fried egg and joined today. Thanks, and now back to our episode. Hey, I don't know if I've ever asked you this, Poosh, but how did you get into golf?

00:58:33
Speaker 4: Well, when I was a kid in Hawaii, my dad played growing up. He was your typical kind of weekend shoot one hundred and ten, basically just going out there on a Saturday with his buddies to drink beers and kind of have a good time. And I would occasionally get tagged along with him just to kind of ride in the cart and hang out with the guys, and so I started to I think when I was about fourth or fifth grade, I started junior golf with kind of my group of friends that I played basketball with in the basketball season, and then when basketball ended, they were like, you should come play golf junior golf, So I said, okay, And I quickly got pretty good at it and could beat my dad by the time I was in like sixth grade or seventh grade, and kind of through high school could usually shoot in the eighties, just kind of fairly easily without just picking it up and going and playing on the weekends. And then when I went to college, I just totally lost it. Didn't play at all in college. I'd play when I go home during the summer and Christmas and play that kind of when I play a lot, and then i'd when I graduated and joined the band, I was too broke to to ford golf, so and I lost my golf clubs. Thought somebody had stolen stolen them out of my car and found them like six years later in the rafters of our house where we all lived together. So yeah, then I picked it back up again in like two thousand and tennis two thousand and nine, and kind of a group of guys that I was with on the road with some other bands. They were like, let's go play in Monterey, right next to the Cali Reads Festival, and there's a golf course. There's Monterey Pines, I think is what it's called. And we went out to play and I just could not get the ball going at all. They couldn't get it going straight, couldn't hit. It was like the most embarrassing, frustrating experience athletic experience in my life, after being used to being able to just kind of pick it up and shoot like eighty six eighty seven without you know, really trying or doing any sort of work, and every single guy in the group was better than me, and it kind of just ignited the competitive fire in me. And from that point on, I got the bug. I got really, really bad, to the point where I was waking up in the middle of the night just kind of thinking about golf. My wife was in Honolulu going to get in your Masters at the University of Hawaii, and I would be laying in bed at nine thirty at night and I'd be like, I gotta go hit golf balls and go down to Ali and pound giant bucket of you know, one hundred and fifty balls or something in eleven at night sweating. So yeah, it just the bug hit me really bad.

01:01:19
Speaker 2: It's I feel like your story is a similar one to a lot of people. Like I went to college, I played a lot less golf. After college, I played a lot less golf because when you're twenty three and you're working, you don't have a lot of money.

01:01:35
Speaker 4: You know, you don't have a lot of excess cash is what it is.

01:01:39
Speaker 2: And then and then when you pick it back up, it's it's great. I think, you know, I was, I was curious, you know, as you've been doing this, you've had the had the bug, and is there have you found any sort of relationship or similarities between the music process or any part of being a musician and being a golfer.

01:01:59
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think there's lots of parallels it. You know, obviously there's there's the obvious ones with when it comes to practice and tempo and things like that. And I think with music, I kind of when I went went to college is when I got the music bug, And it was really the guitar. Started playing the guitar, and that was like any time I would see a guitar, I had to pick it up and play it, and it just felt like this yearning to constantly play the guitar. Same thing happens with the golf club. It's like you see a golf club line around, you want to pick it up and just like feel it swing it, just kind of get the the feel of it. And I think, you know, maybe it's says something about the personality type, but it's when it comes to music and golf, it's both it's things that you can never master. Really, you never really get to the bottom of it. There's no there's no such thing as a perfect song or a perfect you know playing of the guitar, or you know, perfect golf golf game. It's just there's no perfect it's just it's all about the process, and it's all about kind of search that search, I think, and what makes it magical and what makes it fun. And it's they're both difficult, you know, They're both kind of have a mysticism to them, and I think that's what always draws me to things of that nature.

01:03:10
Speaker 2: I had thought about, like the picking up thing, and I think one of the things though that's interesting about music is with golf, everybody that you're with knows when you screw up, But with music, like if you're you and like the few members of your band are probably the only people that know you messed up, because I mean, that's like the cardinal rule in music, right, It's like, if you screw up, just you just got to keep going and act like nothing happened.

01:03:38
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I mean there are times when you can't hide it. You know, you forget the lyrics or you know, you just straight up screw up in front of a giant crowd of people. And that's maybe you know ten ten x what it feels like when you screw up a golf shot. But they're both pretty embarrassing and can can really bring you to your knees as far as your embarrassment level.

01:04:00
Speaker 2: I don't want to dwell on this, and I'm just curious about what's the worst grew up you've ever had on stage?

01:04:07
Speaker 4: Oh, dude, I can't even There's like a bag of them. But as I was just talking about it recently, I think it was somebody on the golf courses asking me this the other day, and it was we were in there's been a couple. There was one time we played in Spokane, Washington, and then we played in Boise, Idaho in consecutive nights. And both of the venues in those cities that we were playing with are knitting factories. So that's a knitting factory. Bois knitting factory Spokane. They're both fairly similarly set up. And so I think we went from Spokane to Boise or something, and I was like, what's up Spokane and just like threw out a Spokane and the whole crowd just booed me. I was like sorry, and it's like you're trying to explain. It's like we were in Spokane, La. You can't even do it.

01:04:54
Speaker 2: And so that's gotta be the that's the worst.

01:04:57
Speaker 4: That's the nightmare, right, yes, where you call it the wrong city, it's it's and we've I've seen it at you know, a number of times and it happens to the best. But it's like there's nothing you can do at that point. You're like you're kind of just fighting for your life for the rest of the show, and you're just like every time you get a chance, you kind of have to apologize and be like, I'm sorry about that whole thing back there, like let's try and move forward. But yeah, you know what happens. I've done that I did. I did a Portland, Oregon in Portland, Maine one year, and that was and I somehow managed to like flip it into like that I did it on purpose, like I didn't really and at the end I got the crowd like really going. But it was. It took like a masterclass and like basically like freestyling psychological warfare on an entire crowd of people.

01:05:48
Speaker 2: I mean, it's got to rattle you a little bit for during the performance, right, It's got to be like when something like shakes you out the golf course right right off the bat.

01:05:57
Speaker 4: Okay, so I guess the golf equivalent be like you hit your drive in the middle of the fairway on the first hole and then you just hit an absolute dead shank with the second shot and hit it out of bounds and there's like nothing, and then everyone's watching you and you're kind of just like, I don't know what do I do. There's not you don't know where it came from. It just all of a sudden, the shank just hit and then for the rest of the show. You're kind of like on edge or the rest of the round. You're kind of is it gonna happen again? Is it gonna happen? You're just thinking about it and you're kind of rattling. So it's kind of like the equivalent of hitting the shank.

01:06:29
Speaker 2: I suppose I mentioned another thing that similar is like if you're fighting on the creation side, right like this song side mm hm, similar to like golf. This is something I was kind of thinking about when when I was thinking about this conversation, is like, is there a certain aspect when you're writing a song, like where you have to just stop trying?

01:06:53
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean there's lots of times where.

01:06:57
Speaker 1: Ill.

01:06:58
Speaker 4: So there's a song on not this our new album, but we're there's a future release after that that we're working on. And we went in as a group, as the whole band to do a session, and it was for a feature with a specific artist that's kind of a big, big name artist, and so we were really trying to tailor the song to this person's style, and we kind of started this whole thing and we got it going. We got it going, and then we kind of stopped and we realized we were like, let's you know what, this isn't right, Let's go and try something different. So we went down an alley for like four hours, and we got to the four hour point of it and we're like, we just ran into a wall and basically had to say this is not work, Like this isn't going, this isn't working. So we went all the way back to the beginning thing, and then when we went back to the beginning thing, it just went and from that point on it took us like an hour to finish the whole song. It was awesome and now it's you know, we are really happy with it. But it happens all the time in music where you just kind of have to go, listen, let's just let's just move on to something different and then come back to this and with fresh ears and with with a fresh perspective, because sometimes you just end up spinning your wheels and it's hard to get out of that same, the same thought process. Like a lot of times with songs, there's a when you have a certain melody stuck in your head you can't unhear it, or you have a certain rhythm or a certain thing you just can't get it out. Of your head and you can't unhear it. And it's like listening to one song and then trying to sing another melody while while you have another song stuck in your head or another ear song playing in your ear. It's impossible. So it's one of those where you just kind of have to take a step away and then come back to it. It's kind of like golf, like I need to take like right now for me, I've played so much golf in the last two weeks that I need to just I'm my clubs are on the bus getting a ship or you know, rolling back here, and it's like a blessing because I really want to hit golf balls because I play is playing so poorly. But it's better than just take a little week long break and step away.

01:09:03
Speaker 2: That's what I honestly I was. I mean, I think about this just because like it just happened. I played nine holes this week and I hadn't played in like a week. And before that, I was, you know, I was driving the ball great, but I wasn't hitting great irons like I just was you know, something was I was thinking too much about the golf swing, and like sure enough I played this nine holes and I hit like a great number of great irons, like really really high quality irons, and I was like, I kind of like got off the course. I was like, you know what, I just was swinging. I wasn't thinking about like a little bit about mechanics here. And I try and keep all those thoughts out. I try and have like one, but it was like literally like I just was doing it instead of It's just it's wild how the brain and music is similar, right, Where with a golf swing, like you it's intentional, like you're you're very conscious. It's not I imagine certain things have like a reaction aspect, right, But for a lot of it, it's you're thinking about it.

01:10:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. When we're on tour, like we have been playing, you know, every night for a month or so a month and a half, it's becomes like muscle memory. So I get up on stage and I don't the less I think about what I'm doing, the better. As soon as I start thinking about, oh, what's if I think about what's the next lyric coming, That's when I'm like, I panic and I'm like uh, and then usually it'll come. Sometimes it doesn't like if I'm tired or if I didn't have a good night sleep, and then we play a show and it's a song we haven't you know. We had a couple of gigs on the last tour where it was a headline gig where we had to play ninety minutes in the middle of playing sixty minutes set every night that was, you know, relatively the same set, and so we had to throw like, you know, six five or six news songs in there that we hadn't been playing, and I get up on stage and I'm like, in the middle of some of them, I'm like thinking about, wait, we haven't played this song in like six months. I don't remember what the lyrics are. And then it's kind of like sometimes they come and sometimes I end up with like a so you doing one of those, and it's like it's it is like the golf swing where it's like if you're playing, if you're playing golf swing, you're not playing golf, like you will almost always play worse if you're thinking about your golf swing, when when you're playing, you always play worse. It's like when golf feels easy is when you're totally target focused, and it's like you're just swinging and hitting shots and you're going like, wow, this is so easy, you know, like I'll never forget this feeling, it will never leave me. And then then literally the next day you can go out there and you're like trying to recreate it, and as soon as you try to recreate that feel, it's gone and you are thinking about the feel is more than you're thinking about just hitting the shot.

01:11:55
Speaker 2: This is a little bit of diversion from music and golf talk. But I'm just like the musician's journey, right, I feel like we're in this era of music, like, well, while it's easier to get discovered maybe than ever because of the but it's harder to be like a musician than ever. What's it been like on just I guess, like I think about even my experience with you and where your band is now compared to like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen when we first knew each other, like met each other and I went to a show, Like what's it like when you think all the way back to starting and where you were playing then and versus where you're playing now? What I mean and kind of if you could do it quickly like the journey of going from you know, I'm going to do this music thing to now where you're headlining.

01:12:52
Speaker 4: Sure, it's well, it started in college. You know. We were a proper garage band. We literally started in one of my buddy's garages. And then it was let's play in front of the college kids, you know, let's play at a house party. We built stages, we bought a PA, it was one of those. And then it was like, oh, we got a gig downtown. We can play. We can play for one hundred bucks or two hundred bucks, or we could play for a door deal. As many people will buy a ticket, we get the money. And then we got a gig out of town. You know, oh we got to you know, so we kind of started. It was funny because you kind of start as technically a headliner because you're playing shows in front of college kids or at a bar downtown in Santa Barbara, or you're going to Hermosa Beach or San Diego or whatever. And then you kind of have when you decide, okay, we want to we want to go on a national tour. Then you have to kind of start square at you know, run one on the ladder and it's you're opening first of three for five hundred dollars total a night maybe and that's enough to like pay for your gas and you know, maybe give you a few bucks to eat. And you know, we were for a long time. We were in a van. We're in a sprinter van driving across the country doing national you know, eight week national tours in a band in the winter with no heat or no air con. I slept on a bean bag chair for months at a time with a futon on top of the bean bag chair. And you know, you're you're the first of three, so you have you really have no clout. You walk into a venue and you're the opener and people are like, all right, whatever, dude, Like go stick your stuff in the corner, get off stage as fast as you can, like you get the tiny the tiny green room. And then if you you know, stick with it and you keep going and you're you know, what you do is is good and you make it. And it's like we started there and we started playing the tiniest venues in the country and we've done them all and you know, we're lucky to have, you know, got some momentum going and made some good records that that did well, and then you kind of end up at a place where you know, you just build, you just build your play. Then you go to theaters or you go to you know, thousand cap venues or you know, then you kind of go to the next thing, and then eventually you you can make the jump off to Okay, now I can headline in an amphitheater or you know, you're headlining or playing at big festivals and things of that nature. And I think it just you know, it is surreal at this point that we look back and I go, you know, we play in a place like in Minneapolis or something where we played the Seventh Street Entry, which is like next to First AB. It's this tiny little hole in the literal hole in the wall, maybe holds two hundred fifty people. And going from there to plane you know, First AB to playing you know, all these big theaters and like you said, in Chicago we played Shubas for instance.

01:15:36
Speaker 2: Ye like a tiny bar, great spot. If you that's a sign to you're in early on a band. If you catch them at Shubas in Chicago.

01:15:44
Speaker 4: Yes, yes you got Shubas. You pat yourself on the back and then you know, going to playing Aragon or norther of the Island or you know, places like that. So it is a surreal thing and you know, we're just lucky at this point to be where we are. The band has grown every year over years since we started, and I think we just take that as like we're not maybe the overnight you know sensation that some some bands get. But we have been a slow burn and and have grown. So we just as long as we keep growing, like I'm happy with it and no looking back, just keep going.

01:16:20
Speaker 2: If you if there were like two or three moments along the way that like just stand out as like transformative moments, what were they like when you think back to like what you you know, you might have been like, you know what we're making it?

01:16:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say. I think when we put out our sample this EP we had and this is gonna be funny, but we put we had a song called Falling that.

01:16:44
Speaker 3: Good.

01:16:45
Speaker 4: They got onto it. It was the first generation of the iPhone had a game called Tap Tap Revenge and the song got was like the easy mode like beginner song that you get on Tap Tap Revengers, like basic guitar Hero for your iPhone. And we had already hit number one in Hawaii on the radio, and we'd had a lot of had gotten a lot of you know, Billboard on the Billboard, Reggae charts and all that stuff, had gotten number one. But then all of a sudden, we got this song and Tap Tap Avenge and it like had a second wave of millions and millions of streams, and it kind of helped us kind of get into the main mainstream even more across the country because then people started coming out the woodworks and my Space really started to take off at my Space, which you know, that was like the first time I remember being like, whoa, this is pretty cool. And then we went and played the Roxy Theater in l a and we sold it out, and it was like that felt like, oh my gosh, we're gonna make it now. You know, we're gonna you know, the Roxy's not big, it's like five six hundred people at most. And for that that moment though, it felt like we're in Hollywood, we sold out show. We're from Hawaii, for instance, Like you think about Hollywood, You're like, whoa, We've sold out a show in Hollywood. Those that felt like a big moment. I think it's like the first time you hear your song on the radio. That's always a big moment. In Santa Barbara, we have you got.

01:18:19
Speaker 2: That's getting on the radio now you do.

01:18:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, the new, the new. We have a new single called day Trip, and that's that's getting some success across the country right now. It's one of the you know, top five most added songs on the alt radio. So yeah, we're putting the push behind it and it's going well, so hopefully it can keep going. But yeah, I think it's it's it's moments like that. I think that are are surreal, and it's like I think it's anytime you play some Sometimes you play these shows in New York. You sell out a show in New York, sold out Irving Plaza, it feels bigger than maybe it really actually is, because it just you think about, oh, when you're starting, you think about, oh, man, if I can play a show in New York City, that would be awesome, and then you end up selling a show out there, and it feels bigger, you know, because you built it up in your mind. But yeah, I mean there's there's a ton of little moments like that. I think you know that have felt momentous and and I think we're just you just keep rolling and hopefully they keep coming.

01:19:18
Speaker 3: Hey.

01:19:18
Speaker 2: You know, obviously a lot of people that listen to this pod are super into golf courses, and they're kind of like, I have to go experience this golf course. If you think about it, it's kind of like a concert venue, like what are what are the must Let's just say three must experience concert venues that you guys have played in or or that you personally have seen a show in.

01:19:39
Speaker 1: Uh.

01:19:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say I think everyone knows about Red Rocks in Colorado. That's that's on my I think that's a must. I don't think it's a must experience. If you have you have a chance to see a band that you really care about in that environment, it's it's pretty glorious. I've actually never I think I've ever attended a concert. I've just only played it. But yeah, i'd say there. I think for me, the Santa Barbara Bowl where I live is an incredible venue and an incredible place to see a show. We've been lucky enough to play it, and I've seen some amazing concerts there. Acts that I you know, that have really like changed my whole view on live music and been lucky enough to do that and then let's see one more. It's like a really really good one. There's some really cool places that are kind of tucked away. I think a lot of them are in uh, California, though, I think there's a lot of really great venues up here. The Greek Theater in Berkeley is another one that I really love that just has a great vibe and a great energy to go there. Yeah, you gotta go, you gotta go. Same thing.

01:20:46
Speaker 2: But if I took it to some random show this or this this month before, I you.

01:20:51
Speaker 4: Know, I forget and I'm you know, we're not playing it this year. We're doing the Frost Stampa Theater at Stanford. But it's it's a bummer because we usually do the Greek and it's it is really cool.

01:21:02
Speaker 2: That's that's awesome. So when did you u? When did you you start? You got back into golf in like two thousand and nine, twenty ten. When did you start? When did the clubs start coming on the road with you? Because I imagined space is a very precious commodity when you're on tour.

01:21:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was. I think it was pretty early. I think it might have been like twenty thirteen or fourteen. We brought the clubs and we just I think we may have even still been in a van when we brought the clubs and they just got shoved into the back of the trailer and they would have to get like moved every time somebody had to unload or load the trailer. But we would only play once or twice on tour really, you know, on the days off, and it wasn't a crazy thing. And then I think somewhere around twenty sixteen or twenty seventeen is when they really started to roll. We were in the in a bus. It there's space in the base, and it was just became one of the bays just got deemed sports bay. And it was just like like we had guys in our band bringing surfboards on the road, which is like literally so they could surf, yeah, which are huge just to surf. Like one day or two days when we get to Florida or North Carolina and we're like, dude, you guys come on like just ran a surfboard when you get there. It's not like you guys are getting good swell. It's just so yeah, the club started rolling and then now it's you know at the point where almost you know, our keyboard player brings this club. It used to be we had you know, we have two guys on the crew that play, and so a lot of guys are you know, playing golf on the road. And this last tour we had guys in all the bands that were playing, so it was pretty cool. We had a couple of days where we had three group three you know, four balls, you know, like ten twelve people playing golf on the days off, which is great.

01:22:50
Speaker 2: I think the last time I was at a show of yours, we were hanging out after you were talking about how many of guys in the band start have started to play, because it originally it was just you and Micah Brown that were playing. Yes, and like, what how did that? How did that become kind of a band activity.

01:23:09
Speaker 4: Well, I think what happened is when Harry Arnette was at Callaway. I think he and his family were had been fans, and there was a bunch of guys that worked at Callaway at the time that were fans of the band, and we got invited to do Callaway Live when they were doing that kind of live show. And we did it, and we played a live acoustic show at Callaway headquarters. And part of the deal was like, listen, we don't have we're not going to like, can't pay you guys to do this, but we can get you guys, you know, golf clubs and you can get fitted and do this whole thing. And so we went down there and everybody got fitted, even you know, all the guys in the band that had don't even play, you know, our drummer, our bass player that you know, they dabble, but they don't really play. And so everybody got full kit it out with you know, custom Callaway fitted golf clubs and everything. And so I think that kind of kicked it off for some of them. And then as we went we did it again. And so when we did it again the Callaway Live Harry was basically like, listen, you guys are Callaway lifers now, so thank you guys, and you know, if you ever need anything, here we go. So then we started going to Top Golf. That was another thing, was the Top Golf. And this is not an Callaway but it is, but it actually it actually got one of our keep our lighting director got the bug super bad from going to top golf and then so you know, we got him some clubs and he's become one of the golf guys now, and so I think it's just, you know, it's all facets of you know. I think I think the big thing is is the hardest thing is getting golf clubs right, because they're expensive and most people, if they're not a they're not really into golf. We're not going to spend you know, two thousand plus dollars on golf clubs. And so I think when the first thing was getting them the clubs, and then that kind of opened the door for them to really kind of get further into the game.

01:25:12
Speaker 2: I imagine it's got to be tricky. It was almost easier when there's just two players, like you get I mean, so we'll get into the latest tour and some of the golf on it, but like, how do you guys, you know, decide whether it's an all band golf day versus, hey, I got this great infight, there's only a couple of spots.

01:25:31
Speaker 3: You know.

01:25:33
Speaker 4: Well, I think Michael Brown and I kind of get we because we are the the golf the kind of golf nerds of the group that and kind of the lifers that we get the priority if there's a you know, a special invitation on the on the books. I think a few years ago we got asked to do the Pebble Beach pro am pairings dinner, and it was the same kind of deal. They're like, listen, we can't pay you a lot of money, but we can get you out to Cypress Point and Pebble You can place Cypress and Pebble Beach. And so we're like, and I took like a cell to the other guys and like, because they're not golfers, I'm like, listen, like you guys, we want to do this. You want to go up there. It's a couple of days and you know in Monterey and Carmel, like you can chill. You guys can do whatever you get access. You know, there's wine, there's all kinds of things. And so the other guys were like, yeah, sure whatever, we're not doing anything. Let's go. So he's like, listen, I can only get two of you out to Cypress Point. The other two will get you out to Spy Glass. No, no small consolation. But so Micah Brown and I obviously we're the ones that went to Cypress Point our our ldn our tour manager calling went to Spyglass and had a great day. You know, yeah, no one, no one got hurt.

01:26:45
Speaker 2: But it was like, you know, well every I mean like spy Glass is a very nice constellation for free golf, you know, free golf. Yes, Free golf's great anywhere, and spy Glass is a great, great free golf place.

01:26:58
Speaker 3: Yes.

01:26:58
Speaker 4: And then with the next day we got to play Pebble, all four of us, and it was a great The funny thing was that we had we went out the night before after you know, we played the concert at the Prayines' dinner, we went to the tap room the Johnny Thompson put the callaway card down for us at the bar. He said, you know what, guys, it's time put the company card down. So some of the guys had a few too many to drink at the tap room. And so the first we're on the first tee at Pebble Beach and our true manager Colin literally vomited on the first tee at Pebble Beach, hungover. We were the first tea time out, like seven thirty seven in the morning whatever it was. He was hurting and we we just got on the first tee box. We were late. First of all, we're hitting ball balls and they're like, you guys are on the tee. We're like, where is it. They're like, it's like you got to get a shuttle down to the word. So we go all the way down. We get there. You know, we're already late and we just walked up to the first tee what we think is the first tea. We don't. I didn't realize that there was an amateur tea box that was like forty yards up. We just got on the first tea and we didn't realize till the third hole that we were playing from the pro t boxes. We're just like, you know what, let's just go. Let's just go with it and keep playing from the back here. And it was awesome. But I mean those are the you know, obviously, those are kind of the experiences that happen and that we're lucky enough to you know, experience.

01:28:20
Speaker 2: I imagine that's helped with like just cambaraderie with the band.

01:28:24
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, for sure, I think and it keeps everyone saying, I think it's againting off the tour bus. It really, you know, killing four hours five hours plus. Where you're you're you can get out in nature, you can get out of the bus, get some exercise, get some sunned and you know, he honestly, you see parts of the cities that we're in that you don't normally see because normally we're like right in the heart of the downtown area or something like that, where or you're stuck around where the Amphitheater is, where you're not really venturing out too far away, and we get to go see kind of what the actual you know, the site is, you know, what where, what does it look like, what is the flora, what's the fauna? What are the beauty of the area. And I think, you know, we've been lucky to see some really incredible places.

01:29:12
Speaker 2: It's funny I have like the opposite thing when I go if I go, you know, I was recently on like a seventeen day trip and like it's like sun up to sundown golf, right, yeah, like very early mornings to shoot. And what I've found in this, like in doing this for years, and this is probably going to be a little sacrilegious to say on this podcast, but like what I crave is moments away from golf on those like you know, and what you're saying is golf your kind of departure from the tour bus and music all the time? Right, It's like if I can just like if I can get like a night where I go have a nice meal in the city in a city that I haven't spent a lot of time and get to see the city and feel like I'm like part of society and not just this like golf bubble. It makes me like I feel rejuvenated the next day, like I like, you know, it's not it's not definitely not groundhog Day. And I'm not that this is not a complaint, but I'm just I've just noticed that, like you have to have balance, like and I imagine, like you love music, you know, it's not like you get it. You're doing what you love. But the golf provides the balance on a on a really heavy trip if if you didn't have the.

01:30:27
Speaker 4: Balance, it's yeah, one hundred percent. It's all about balance. It's all about finding ways to not be stuck and not feel like the thing that you love is a job. I think that you know, when you're on tour, it is it is hard, like you're every day it is ground. Yeah, and you're in a different city every single day, so it's you're on a tour bus vers and foremost with a bunch of dudes that you know, listen, weird. We're friends, we've known each other for a long time. But it's like at the four or five week point, you're like, I didn't really like, you know, we didn't sign up to like be married to each other. And we're like really close, and you know, you're just around each other NonStop and you have to deal with everyone's ticks and everyone's little things that they you know, they have, and you know it's just that's normal. I mean, but you know it's a it's a good way to keep even those relationships balanced because we were just like get our like space apart. We go listen, we're gonna go play golf, We're gonna hang out with some different people, and we'll come back and we'll be our energy will be gone.

01:31:32
Speaker 2: Well, new stuff to talk about, Like everybody goes to do this, that's the thing, and you got something to talk about.

01:31:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, we ran into this guy. We saw this, you know, you know this happened. It's just a different you know, you get and you get to talking to different people. You know, it's nice, you know, different perspective.

01:31:50
Speaker 2: So let's talk about your latest tour. You just you're done and you played a ton of golf. What what were the like? At one point you had it tabulated on a certain stretch. How long was the tour? Do you know how many of how many rounds you played on the tour?

01:32:08
Speaker 4: Ooh, I don't know exactly. I mean I could roughly tabulate it. But I think we started on June. We started on June first, or actually I started, yeah, June first. I started on day one in Austin. I played a played golf the first day Barton Creek with some of the nulleying up guys. We did a little a video that's will be coming out in a while. But played there, played in Dallas, played, did not play in Houston, was thought about it, played in New Orleans, played in I played the park in West Palm Beach, played the Die Die Valley at TPC Sawgrass, then went up the coast, played got to play. I'm gonna forget. I'm definitely gonna forget. But there was a stretch where I did played let's see Peach Tree game in Hall, Wilmington, UNI. Then went to the next week did where I played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Skip Saturday in Chicago, but played Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and then I played Wednesday and actually played I think I played Thursday and Fridays. I think I played Friday, so I played Friday in Portland. Main I played Thursday and Friday. So I played almost every day for like two weeks straight, which was including the shows, which was a lot. And that's why now I'm like, Okay, I think I'm ready to take a break. But yeah, I mean I played some some really incredible places on the tour. Super Lucky Fox Chapel in Pittsburgh was it was really a place that I love to play winged foot, you know, not I'm not trying to like name drop clubs, but it's like I.

01:33:52
Speaker 2: Listened to this and I'm like, man, I should just I should just come on a tour and I'll just go play golf every day because it will get me to all these places that I need to get to. Like, my problem is I have so many places go and you go and it's like, well, I need more days in this town because there's seven other courses I want to see. I just saw three and it was like, like I just did. I did a week in New York area and we had, you know, we had an event that took up two days. But like I was there for a week and I saw a new course every day, and I was like, I need seven more days. And then I would have been there for seven more days. But then, you know, listening to you, it's like, oh, man, like you just you're going. You get it. You see new places all the time. It's I mean, it's an amazing thing. How how do you manage do you get tired? I mean I imagine that. I mean, golf in concerts don't really the hours don't drive well.

01:34:47
Speaker 4: It's funny because we have a buddy that's in one of the other bands, Jeff that's in the Expinables, and he's a golfer, and I would the first one of the first year is that, yo, you want to come play at you know someplace And he's like, but you're playing the day of the show. I was like yeah, man, Like he's like, I was like, we're playing an hour, man, it's not I like, you know, I can take a nap that's later in the evening, like he's like, no, no, I can't do that. He's like, I get way too tired. I was like, okay, like I played, you know, it doesn't I guess it's like I have an extra a golf like fuel tank. And then there's like the music fielding. It's like, as long as I get like rehydrated and can maybe lay down for twenty five minutes or thirty minutes, I'm pretty good. But a lot of times I just carry it through and it feels like the same thing, and then you know, you sleep well at the end of the night. It's easy to fall asleep. I might. I got to throw in that we played at Canterbury because I want I want to make sure because I know you're a friend of yours is Andrew Bailey that you introduced me to and we've become friends as well. Uh and Matt Constantine and we Mike Brown and I Team Brownie. We took them took them down at at Canterbury. So I just wanted to make sure I got that out there into the universe so that those guys will be extra hurt.

01:36:04
Speaker 2: That's good Scalp.

01:36:05
Speaker 4: You know, it's a good scalp. You take down a top mid end player and a plus two plus handicaps, it's a it's a good scalp.

01:36:12
Speaker 2: Day, especially at his home course that that course is like built for his game too.

01:36:17
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, you know it was. Those are the but you know, I think the main thing is like outside the courses that we get to play, which are incredible, I've gotten to play incredible courses all over the country, it's it's mostly about like the people that we've met there. I say this all the time, but I don't think I've met more than like maybe one or two people that I genuinely just didn't get along with. And it's like they weren't even like the maybe they were just maybe a random other person that was added to the group. It's like almost everyone that I end up meeting in the golf world are playing golf with are like genuinely nice, cool people that I end up like seeing over and over again as they come back and playing golf with.

01:36:58
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's I think there's like if you dial in on it right, like your your your style of music is very welcoming, right, and then you factor in a person that like wants to invite you, right and and welcome you, like there's like a double welcoming barrier, right, like the music like doctor Yeah, like the music itself like lends itself. Probably just somebody that's that's fairly relaxed, right yeah. And then and then there's another layer of yeah, I mean I'm sure it's got you that what's the pet peeve at a concert of like what's the worst things that idy can do at a concert? And then what's your pet peeve on a golf course?

01:37:45
Speaker 4: Pet peeve in a concert is somebody that's in the front row that just mean mugs you. The whole set doesn't but they just stand like we have it all the time where it's somebody they get in the front row and then they just stare at Ilia's and like they don't like they don't like why why are you in the front row? Like there's somebody that probably once would love to be there, that knows the words to the song, that would enjoy it.

01:38:09
Speaker 3: Like if you don't.

01:38:11
Speaker 4: That just you know, it's like why Like a lot of times when that happens, I'll just I'll and it, you know, as much as it's it's one of those things that's like you only you read YouTube and you see the negative comments out of you know, you're the one negative comment out of the hundred that are positive. But there's all these people are enjoying the show. But then there's one person that you just kind of zone in on and you're looking at him going like what is why? Why are you here? Like why are you doing this? And then for me, I end up just kind of focusing on them like the whole set and just looking right at them and kind of bean like, you know, what are you going to do something?

01:38:44
Speaker 2: Are you trying to get them to react?

01:38:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, like whether positive or negative. I just want to see something. And then then uh pet peeve on the golf chorus. Oh, I mean I'm pretty I'm pretty lay safe on the golf course. I think it's like for me, I think obviously it's just slow. It's got to be just slow play. And I think it's I have some buddies that I do play with that are slow, and we just give them like incredible amounts of shit and be like listen, dude, like the fourth practice swing or like the fourth regrip. Just it's not doing you any not doing anything for you, Like you're a good enough player, you don't need it.

01:39:24
Speaker 2: All right, last question, we'll get you out of here on this. It's a two part question. Has has a has a stop on a tour ever been added because of golf, like a city or a venue, and be what would be the dream golf tour? Like you're you can craft, you could craft a tour anywhere? Where would it go? Like for it could be any duration of time. But those are the two questions.

01:39:56
Speaker 4: Okay, So the first question, there hasn't I don't know if there's been a a date that's been added specifically for golf, but there have been days off that have been specifically added for golf. And it's like the manager will be like, our the agent will be like, listen, you have a day off here, we could pick up a show in like Delaware, and we're like or whatever it is, and you're like, we had the day off and it's after Philadelphia and we got offered to play Pine Valley or something like that, and you're going, no, dog, Like we're staying. We're going to Philly, Like we're not going over wherever else, you know, to the next place. And so yeah, there's been there's definitely been a lot of those, and like you know, or we have a lot of times we're driving in between. So this is a good one. We're driving from Kansas City to Denver, and it's you can't do it in one in one leg because this is too far. So the bus has to stop somewhere in Kansas, in the middle of Kansas, and we're looking at the map and I'm going, well, hutch Kansas is not super far outside of Kansas City, but at least it gets us enough far enough to that the next leg we can make it to Denver. So I convinced every like the rest of our band is stop in hundreds because there's like there's a burger place with like I think there's a burger and milkshake place there. I was like, listen, great burger milkshake. You guys can go get burgers.

01:41:19
Speaker 2: I read about it. It's great. It's world.

01:41:24
Speaker 4: But I'm like, listen, dude, like you, it's not gonna be any different from any of these other places that are in the middle of Kansas, right, Like, no offense. I love Kansas, my mom's from Kansas. But in the down in the middle of the plains, it's just all tiny little town, so we might as well go to Hutchinson so I can play Pray, we can play Prairie Dunes. We ended up going there and getting rained out anyway, so it was kind of a bummer, but uh, you know, but those are the kind of things. And then as far as.

01:41:51
Speaker 2: Trying to try to manipulate it and it didn't happen naturally.

01:41:55
Speaker 4: Well yeah exactly, and the storm got us. But I think as far as like a golf a golf tour goes, I think it's kind of in the works right now. And honestly, we're trying to get down to Australia, New Zealand. We've been trying for a while, you know, during COVID obviously that kind of put the kaibash on it, but trying to get down there, and if we can get down there, then I can. I think it's self explanatory, the you know, the the kind of circuit that could could happen down there. So that would be my dream, I think, is that's one of my top places that I'd like to see. Otherwise it's like, you know, I pretty much am on the dream golf tour because you hit all the places that you know, there are golf for the most part.

01:42:41
Speaker 2: That's the uh, the thing I do you do, you know, do you have like a big listenership down there, and that's what like do you do You look at numbers and it's like, well, we could go and have a tour, a successful yeah.

01:42:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's not like crazy, it's not as obviously as big as we we have in the United States. But I think that's why you know, you push for you know, these songs on the radio and things, because that those are the kind of things that can really spread the listenership into Europe. And we do have a you know, we have a sizeable listenership in New Zealand and Australia and South America, so I think that's where the next target is before we end up going to Europe. But you never know, and you know, we'll just keep keep trying and keep keep pressing and hopefully eventually we end up with you know, being able to go to both and then you know you can sneak in the Scotland and the Ireland and England golf tour.

01:43:38
Speaker 2: I was wondered if that was like, you know, all along the Scotland Scottish Coast.

01:43:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean Scotland is the reason why I discovered the Frida Egg because when I first booked, my wife and I decided to go to Scotland. She's Scottish, so we decided to go to Scotland for the first time in twenty sixteen. I was just in the midst of when I that was really what piqued my interest in golf architecture was the trip to Scotland when I started trying to plan my itinerary for the first time I went, and so I was trying to find anything to do with golf, anything to do with golf architecture, and I came upon you you on Twitter, and there was a number of other ones. I think it was like, you know, the Scottish Golf podcast when that was the thing with Rue McDonald, who's I've been lucky enough to play a couple of matches against in some cool places over there in Cruden Bay and Brora, and then obviously no laying Up and all the other guys that I've kind of become friends with. But yeah, that's I mean, that's really what kind of kicked it off, was that initial trip to Scotland and just wanted to get that in there because you know that I would like to think of myself as an early adapter to The Friday as well an early fan. I mean we're talking twenty fifteen here, so I don't even know when. That's pretty early.

01:44:56
Speaker 2: I think that was first year. So yeah, yeah, very very early. I remember. I remember when you followed us. I was like, oh, look a musician. I started listening to the music, so people can find you. Your Your band is called Iration, It's on Spotify. You're you're very active on social media. You have Micah Iration at micah Iration on UH on Instagram, and then push Push Daddy on UH on Twitter, which is just a great hand. Could you not get Poush Daddy on Instagram too?

01:45:32
Speaker 4: I think I I think I did have push Daddy, and then I think everyone in my band was just doing their name and iration, so I just did that.

01:45:39
Speaker 2: I had to drop mister Skittles for r Andy Tfe so I know how it feels.

01:45:43
Speaker 4: Well, I think. And now it's like Courtney Kardashian or somebody one of the Kardashians is like started a brand called Poosh, and I'm like, oh god, I'm starting to feel like Am I going to get like somehow looped into the Kardashian thing. I don't know, I hope not, but yeah, we'll see.

01:45:59
Speaker 2: You know, they might might have wanted to buy it eventually.

01:46:02
Speaker 4: Off you you know, that's I think that's what I'm banking on at this point.

01:46:07
Speaker 2: All right, Micah, thanks so much for coming on. And uh, I hope I hope you get some new listeners from it, and uh, you know, and look forward to seeing you sometime soon.

01:46:18
Speaker 4: Thanks Buddie, appreciate it.

01:46:30
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Podcast. Today's episode was produced by Matt Rusius. Thank you, Matt. Matt's also been killing it on the Instagram channel. Go check that out if you don't. But hey, quick reminder, Club TFE is humming. We had two course profiles go up this week. We had Plainfield Country Club and val Aera Country Club. Next week, I'm scheduling in a North Barrack post. So these profiles we are going eat on golf courses. If you are interested in great photography. And you know I do not like to give myself compliments, so I'm going to say mediocre writing about golf from me, great writing from Garrett mediocre writing about golf courses for me. Go check it out. It's one hundred and twenty dollars of the year. It supports so much stuff that we do. I can't emphasize that enough. It helps us continue to grow, which we want to keep doing. We want to keep doing more and this is a great avenue for us to be able to do more. So it's go to dofridagg dot com. Right across the top there's a bar of the Sin's Join Club TFF and it's one hundred and twenty dollars for the year. Your year starts the day you join, so it's not like at the end of the year you got to pay more. Years start to the day you join. And at this point we're twenty six or so of course profiles in so there's a lot of stuff to catch up on. If you haven't been a member, you lots of stuff to read. We have all these cool member videos, We have a ton ton of stuff in there. It is a copious amount of content. So thank you, and we'll be back with a bunch of pods this week. And yeah, thanks for the support.