Cosmic generosity: a selfless investment in the future of physics

1
00:00:04,830 --> 00:00:05,610
Physics.

2
00:00:05,610 --> 00:00:10,160
World. Hello and welcome to the Physics
World Stories Podcast. I'm Andrew Gleer.

3
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:10,840
In this episode,

4
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,360
we're gonna be exploring the Bell
Bonnell Graduate Scholarship Fund,

5
00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:16,960
a fund set up by leading physicist,

6
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,320
professor Dame Jocelyn Bell Bonnell and
the Institute of Physics to encourage

7
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:26,000
greater diversity in physics by assisting
PhD students from underrepresented

8
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,800
groups. Later in the podcast,

9
00:00:27,970 --> 00:00:32,120
we'll hear from one of those successful
PhD students who's using that fund to

10
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,440
study stars in the
Magnic clouds. But first,

11
00:00:35,740 --> 00:00:37,560
here's Professor Helen Gleason.

12
00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:41,480
I'm the Cavendish professor of Physics
at the University of Leeds. Um,

13
00:00:41,580 --> 00:00:45,320
but I hold roles within the
Institute of Physics as well. Um,

14
00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:49,840
I'm the chair of the Benell Graduate
Scholarship Fund, and I'm also,

15
00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:52,640
um, the institute's, um,

16
00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:55,440
representative to Council
for Inclusion and Diversity.

17
00:00:55,460 --> 00:00:58,000
And that means I do things like chair, um,

18
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,040
the Inclusion and Diversity Committee
for the Institute of Physics at the

19
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,760
moment, the Dale Graduate Fund,

20
00:01:02,870 --> 00:01:07,000
grad Graduate Scholarship Fund to
give it is full title, um, was it,

21
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,840
it's a fund that supports, um,

22
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,640
students who are minority
students in physics, um,

23
00:01:13,780 --> 00:01:18,360
to either study or complete
their PhD. So the fund was,

24
00:01:18,580 --> 00:01:22,760
was established when
Jocelyn Benell, um, won the,

25
00:01:22,980 --> 00:01:26,360
the Breakthrough Prize. Um,
in 2018, she won 3 million.

26
00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:30,040
She gave that to the Institute
of Physics, all of it.

27
00:01:30,350 --> 00:01:32,880
Instead of giving it to her family, she
gave it to the Institute of Physics.

28
00:01:33,860 --> 00:01:37,560
And, um, she specifically
wanted to improve, uh,

29
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,520
diversity in physics, that she's,

30
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,880
she's on record many times for saying
how important it is to us. And, and,

31
00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,040
and of course, I fully agree, uh, as
a community to have better diversity.

32
00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:53,680
And, um, so she, she gave this, uh,
money to them to set up this fund, um,

33
00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:58,120
to support people who wouldn't
otherwise have been able to do, um,

34
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,480
postgraduate study or complete
postgraduate study, uh, in physics,

35
00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:07,960
um, to, to, to be able to do so.
Um, I got us to chair that, the,

36
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,800
the, the group that looks after
giving that money out. Um,

37
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,280
and so as part of that role,
I've been doing that since 2019.

38
00:02:14,570 --> 00:02:18,520
We've had four cohorts through.
And as part of that role,

39
00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:22,120
what we needed to do, um, as
a, as a group, as a committee,

40
00:02:22,260 --> 00:02:26,760
was to work out actually how we
could, um, how we could do that,

41
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,320
how we could fairly and transparently, um,

42
00:02:30,470 --> 00:02:31,800
give away Jocelyn's money.

43
00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:35,520
Before we get into the practicalities
of how the fund is allocated,

44
00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:36,760
in case you don't know,

45
00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:41,400
Jocelyn Benell is an astrophysicist
from Northern Ireland whose work as a

46
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,840
postgraduate student at
Cambridge's Cavendish Laboratory
led to the discovery of

47
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,120
Paul sars in 1967.

48
00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:51,360
A pulsar is a highly magnetized,

49
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,160
rotating neutron star that emits
beams of electromagnetic radiation

50
00:02:56,420 --> 00:03:00,800
out of its magnetic poles because the
emission is seen as a series of regular

51
00:03:01,020 --> 00:03:04,320
pulses. Bell Bennell and her
supervisor, Anthony Hewish,

52
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,760
nicknamed the first Signal as
Little Green Man or L G m won.

53
00:03:10,430 --> 00:03:14,760
That breakthrough was recognized
in the 1974 Nobel Prize in physics.

54
00:03:15,220 --> 00:03:16,320
But as many of you will know,

55
00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:21,480
bell Bennell was infamously overlooked
with the prize going to Hewish and the

56
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,800
English radio astronomer, Martin
Ryle, the snub, never deterred Benell.

57
00:03:25,940 --> 00:03:30,400
And she went on to have a very successful
career in astrophysics and has always

58
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,320
worked tirelessly to promote
diversity in physics.

59
00:03:34,020 --> 00:03:38,840
The special breakthrough prize that she
won in 2018 recognized Nell's Scientific

60
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,240
contributions and her inspiring
leadership in the scientific community.

61
00:03:43,620 --> 00:03:47,800
Here's a short clip of Jocelyn Benell
speaking to the Physics World Weekly

62
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,640
Podcast back in 2019,

63
00:03:50,170 --> 00:03:53,840
describing her motivations
for setting up the fund. The.

64
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,440
Plan is to increase diversity
in physics departments

65
00:03:58,740 --> 00:04:03,640
in the UK and Ireland because
the I o P covers both the UK and

66
00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,560
Ireland. Um,

67
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,080
I do believe that diversity
strengthened a place. Um,

68
00:04:10,090 --> 00:04:14,960
there are echoes of my own PhD
studentship there because I turned

69
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,080
up in Cambridge, um,

70
00:04:17,180 --> 00:04:21,040
to be one of the few women and one of
the few people who wasn't from the south

71
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,840
of England, and it felt quite alien. Uh,

72
00:04:26,020 --> 00:04:29,880
and I wasn't sure I was going to make
the grade and was working very hard.

73
00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:34,000
And that's really how the
discovery of Pulsar came about.

74
00:04:35,020 --> 00:04:39,960
So I have this maybe vain hope
that by increasing the diversity

75
00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:41,360
in physics departments,

76
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,380
there'll be more people
who are feeling a bit

77
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,500
unconventional, um, outta the normal mold,

78
00:04:48,970 --> 00:04:50,580
working like the clappers,

79
00:04:50,580 --> 00:04:53,620
thinking a little differently
and maybe finding things.

80
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,700
The first thing that we needed
to do was to, to understand, uh,

81
00:05:02,810 --> 00:05:06,980
what what was meant by the minority
groups in physics. Okay. And that was,

82
00:05:06,980 --> 00:05:11,220
that was fine because that had been
defined, um, as part of the gift and,

83
00:05:11,220 --> 00:05:13,500
and setting up the, the, the, the fund.

84
00:05:14,140 --> 00:05:17,940
I think then the next challenge was to
think about what that actually meant in

85
00:05:17,940 --> 00:05:22,580
terms of, um, supporting people who
wouldn't otherwise have been able to, um,

86
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:26,940
to do their PhDs. So we came up
with, with two kinds of award,

87
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,460
one we call a top-up award,
and that can be an amount, um,

88
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,660
up to 10,000 pounds, um,

89
00:05:33,830 --> 00:05:38,820
where somebody has hit something
that's, um, really, um,

90
00:05:39,090 --> 00:05:43,580
putting the completion of their p
PhD at risk. Okay. This could be,

91
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,380
um, a health issue. It could
be, um, a childcare issue. Um,

92
00:05:48,380 --> 00:05:50,420
it could be a whole range
of different things. And,

93
00:05:50,420 --> 00:05:53,940
and of course there are things in
place in universities and the research

94
00:05:53,940 --> 00:05:56,940
councils for many of these
things, but not all of them.

95
00:05:57,580 --> 00:06:01,800
And so that's the first kind of
cohort that, um, we can support where,

96
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,360
where things, uh, where people
just need that additional,

97
00:06:04,370 --> 00:06:07,900
additional bit of funding. The second, um,

98
00:06:08,050 --> 00:06:10,820
kind of award we make is, is, um,

99
00:06:11,220 --> 00:06:15,060
a co-funded full award for
someone to do their PhD.

100
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,740
So it's a full scholarship,
it's a fully funded scholarship,

101
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,300
and we give something like half
of the funds for that. And, um,

102
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,060
we decided that we wanted
the institution, um,

103
00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,300
to give the other half. Okay. And
the reason for that was twofold.

104
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,420
One was to make money go further so we
could actually, um, fund more people. Um,

105
00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:39,180
but the second was to make
sure that they had, um,

106
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,540
really invested in, in what we're,
what it is we're trying to do. And,

107
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,100
you know, I think if you just give money
away, um, it's easy to just receive it.

108
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,340
Um, but on the other hand, if you've
co-invested in something, then, uh,

109
00:06:54,340 --> 00:06:58,940
there's a different feel to what it is,
um, that, that we're trying to achieve.

110
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,340
So that was one of the, the criteria we
came up with the other that we decided,

111
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,300
um, you know, we, we,

112
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,700
we want people to be
recommended to us for,

113
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,580
for these awards by the universities.
And that's, um, you know,

114
00:07:15,310 --> 00:07:17,420
there are all sorts of
complicated reasons for that.

115
00:07:17,420 --> 00:07:22,180
But the simplest one is that we didn't
want to be making the judgment about

116
00:07:22,180 --> 00:07:26,060
whether or not somebody was right to
do a PhD with a particular supervisor.

117
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,220
You know, it's important
that judgment is made by the,

118
00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:34,060
by the individuals concerned, and
it's a funding decision, um, at,

119
00:07:34,060 --> 00:07:38,290
at that point. Um, the,

120
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:42,890
the other thing though is that we
were very clear that we wouldn't,

121
00:07:42,990 --> 00:07:45,410
we didn't want to rank list, okay?

122
00:07:45,510 --> 00:07:49,730
So we do not distinguish
between BS, E and, and mfi.

123
00:07:50,510 --> 00:07:55,050
And we do that deliberately because
we know that there are people who, um,

124
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,890
just simply can't afford to do a
pa um, an mfi, right? You know,

125
00:07:59,890 --> 00:08:04,090
they don't have, uh, parental
backing the student loans as we know,

126
00:08:04,090 --> 00:08:08,490
particularly in this cost of crisis,
cost of living crisis, um, may,

127
00:08:08,630 --> 00:08:12,210
may not be enough on their own.
Um, so that's the first thing we,

128
00:08:12,230 --> 00:08:15,770
we know that there, there are
people who choose to do a bsc, um,

129
00:08:15,830 --> 00:08:19,570
for all sorts of reasons. And one
of our minority groups, you know,

130
00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:24,410
are people who come from disadvantaged
backgrounds. Um, the, the other,

131
00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:29,570
um, reason we don't want to go down. Um,

132
00:08:30,410 --> 00:08:34,670
we, we don't. So we, we, we want to
hear about people's academic, um,

133
00:08:34,670 --> 00:08:39,270
achievements, um, but we don't
rank them. We, we, we look at them,

134
00:08:39,370 --> 00:08:42,790
we try to look at them,
um, in, in the whole, um,

135
00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:46,950
because we also know that some people
don't do as well as they might,

136
00:08:47,850 --> 00:08:52,110
um, for all, again, for all sorts of
reasons, which relate to the barriers to,

137
00:08:52,130 --> 00:08:55,550
to people from disadvantaged groups.
And it might be because of disabilities,

138
00:08:55,690 --> 00:08:59,840
might be because they have to hold down
a job, um, at the same time as studying.

139
00:09:00,660 --> 00:09:04,480
Um, it, it might be for mental
health reasons. Um, it, you know,

140
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,840
there are a whole range of reasons why
people might not be the top of the class.

141
00:09:08,980 --> 00:09:09,800
And, you know,

142
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,440
we are really aware that the normal way
of handing out PhD scholarships is to go

143
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,760
to the top of the list of
marks and work your way down.

144
00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:22,680
And that misses so many people
from diverse backgrounds who are,

145
00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:28,120
you know, fantastic, um, candidates
for PhDs. They're amazing candidates,

146
00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:31,640
but they just don't even
get a look in. So we, we,

147
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,920
so we thought about all of the
criteria rule on the website, um,

148
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,040
but we thought about them quite
carefully so that we could, um,

149
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,720
it's all very well wanting to support
people from minority groups, but actually,

150
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,680
actually having a process that does
that was, was really important to us.

151
00:09:48,340 --> 00:09:52,880
Um, so I'm gonna ask you a question
which I, I'm upset that I have to ask,

152
00:09:53,220 --> 00:09:55,560
but there are people who
need the answer to it. What,

153
00:09:55,660 --> 00:09:57,720
why is it important to have?

154
00:09:58,570 --> 00:10:01,920
Right. Okay. Because,
um, you know, I, there's,

155
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,520
there's lots of research that says
that the best ideas and the best

156
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,280
solutions come up from te come from
teams who, uh, are very diverse,

157
00:10:11,740 --> 00:10:14,080
um, and, and who have
different ways of thinking,

158
00:10:14,110 --> 00:10:18,560
different ways of approaching problems.
And, you know, if what we do is have a,

159
00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:23,480
a cohort of people in physics that all
look the same and think in the same

160
00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:26,800
way and have the same values, then
we are restricting ourselves and,

161
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,560
and we won't be the best visits
community that we can be. I mean, there,

162
00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:33,760
there are all sorts of reasons why it's
important for the individuals as well.

163
00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:37,960
You know, there's, there's
the fundamental, um, fairness,

164
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,880
arguments about giving people
equal opportunities and,

165
00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:44,560
and understanding barriers and
tackling them. So for individuals,

166
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,440
it's really important that they have
those opportunities in the same way as

167
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,400
someone who's had a different pathway,
has opportunities. So, you know, that's,

168
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,880
that's another part of
it. But as a community,

169
00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:58,240
we should care because it
really matters to us, um,

170
00:10:58,300 --> 00:11:02,960
in terms of how successful we'll
be and how innovative we'll be. Um,

171
00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:07,480
and you know, how much we will push
those, those physics boundaries and that,

172
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:08,440
that we want to push.

173
00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:11,960
You personally. You've, I mean,
you've, you've done all right, right?

174
00:11:12,180 --> 00:11:15,800
But as in your journey,
have you seen the need for.

175
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,360
It? Oh, gosh, yes. So, you know, I, you,
you're absolutely right. I've done it.

176
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:24,360
Okay. Um, I was, uh, so
I went into physics at,

177
00:11:24,820 --> 00:11:28,040
um, uh, uh, in, in, I
started my degree in 1980,

178
00:11:28,940 --> 00:11:31,800
and I came from a, a school, um,

179
00:11:31,890 --> 00:11:35,520
where as I joined the school
into the high school, um,

180
00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:39,840
girls didn't do maths past the age
of 14 because, you know, girls, a,

181
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,960
they don't need it, and b, you know,
hey, they don't like it. And, and,

182
00:11:43,980 --> 00:11:48,080
and sadly we still hear that, right?
There was a big kerfuffle, um,

183
00:11:48,410 --> 00:11:52,320
about people actually still saying
that. So, you know, that was 50,

184
00:11:52,530 --> 00:11:56,880
50 years ago, 40, 50 years
ago. Um, so, so fighting that,

185
00:11:57,230 --> 00:12:00,560
that kind of, um, that kind
of bias and on, you know,

186
00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:05,520
whether it's unconscious or real, um,
has been, has been absolutely, um, vital.

187
00:12:05,980 --> 00:12:10,120
So I came from a very ordinary background.
It wasn't an all girls school. Um,

188
00:12:10,430 --> 00:12:14,240
when I, um, started my
career in physics, um,

189
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,720
I did a math physics degree. There
were, there were not many women on,

190
00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:18,370
on that course.

191
00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:21,680
There were more than there were in the
physics course because maths actually

192
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:26,160
does better at attracting women.
But nonetheless, um, uh, very few.

193
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,760
I was the first female lecturer in
physics appointed at Manchester,

194
00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:37,560
um, in 1989, which is shocking.
Yep. Okay. It's a disgrace.

195
00:12:38,180 --> 00:12:42,080
Um, so I'm, I'm proud of it on the one
hand, but I, I also think it's terrible.

196
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,200
O on the other hand, um, you know, I,

197
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,080
I had one woman lecturer, um, who,

198
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:54,440
who was actually in maths, not in physics.
Um, so, you know, just seeing that,

199
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:59,090
that this subject is for everybody. And,
and so that's just gender, you know,

200
00:12:59,090 --> 00:13:01,170
that's just gender. Um,

201
00:13:01,270 --> 00:13:05,170
and so seeing that that physics is a
subject for everybody has been a long

202
00:13:05,330 --> 00:13:08,810
standing problem, and we've
done better on gender. Um,

203
00:13:09,510 --> 00:13:11,810
but that problem is not fixed. You know,

204
00:13:11,810 --> 00:13:13,810
the proportion of women is still too low.

205
00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:18,130
But if you then look at other
minority groups, um, we,

206
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:22,330
we do very badly as a community, um,
even against the national statistics,

207
00:13:22,350 --> 00:13:23,890
and we're good at doing statistics, right?

208
00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:27,370
We're good at working out where
it is, we think we should be,

209
00:13:27,370 --> 00:13:29,370
as long as we've got the data. Um,

210
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:33,730
but there's no way of cutting it
other than say, saying that, you know,

211
00:13:34,110 --> 00:13:38,570
the physics community is very good
at recruiting middle class white men

212
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,260
and very poor at recruiting
people from other backgrounds.

213
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,020
And is the Melbourne EL Scholarship
Fund making a difference to.

214
00:13:48,020 --> 00:13:51,660
That? I hope so. I think
it is. You know, so, um,

215
00:13:51,830 --> 00:13:55,420
absolutely to the individuals we've
now made 31 awards, and of course,

216
00:13:55,420 --> 00:13:58,700
some of them haven't yet started because
we've only just, um, we've only just,

217
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,700
uh, uh, made those awards. They'll
be announced fairly soon. Um,

218
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,140
but to, to 31 individuals,
absolutely we have,

219
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:11,060
I hope we have to more than that.
I know that some universities,

220
00:14:11,060 --> 00:14:14,340
when they heard that we were
doing this, um, said, you know,

221
00:14:14,340 --> 00:14:17,580
we want to put candidates forward for
this, but actually we will fund them,

222
00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:19,980
whatever, because we think
this is so important.

223
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,700
So I think there are more
than that. I think, um,

224
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,700
the fact that you can see the inspiring
stories of our be now scholars on the

225
00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:32,970
website acts as, as, um, you know,

226
00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:37,130
complete inspiration, um, to,
to many who read them. But,

227
00:14:37,150 --> 00:14:40,490
but not just that showing that
people who are a bit different,

228
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:45,530
who have had to overcome struggles can
do it and will be supported in doing

229
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:50,330
so. Um, I, I think, you know, that's
the start of making a wider difference.

230
00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:50,830
And,

231
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:55,560
and our be scholars are committed
to being ambassadors for the fund.

232
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:59,800
So, you know, they're doing that in all
sorts of ways. Um, some of them are,

233
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:04,440
are, are influencing policy
decisions. Um, some of them are, uh,

234
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,000
going out and talking to schools, you
know, some of them have podcasts. So I,

235
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,720
I think that's also really important,

236
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:15,800
and I hope that our process, you know,

237
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,320
one of the things we do is
we ask about the suitability,

238
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:23,440
we ask about the record of the supervisor
and what process the university's

239
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,720
gone through in making their
selection. And in doing that,

240
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,120
we wanted the to just
reflect on what a supportive

241
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:36,470
environment was and whether
their process was fair

242
00:15:36,850 --> 00:15:40,750
and transparent and had
sufficient flexibility

243
00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:45,600
to not just mire itself in, you know,

244
00:15:45,830 --> 00:15:50,360
reproducing the same outcome as,
as we've had for a very long time.

245
00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:55,800
And, and I've, I've spoken about the BE
Health Fund and, and our, our process,

246
00:15:57,020 --> 00:16:01,720
um, you to, to people from the
states, to people, uh, you know, um,

247
00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:05,760
in different disciplines and so
on. And, and, you know, it is,

248
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:10,200
it is a bit of a trailblazer. It's
a new way of doing things. So I, I,

249
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,680
I think it is, it's not
necessarily the perfect way,

250
00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:17,840
but it is helping to make
people reflect on, um, you know,

251
00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:20,640
how we build our community going
forward. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

252
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:23,560
But you not, not everybody has, you know,

253
00:16:23,710 --> 00:16:27,520
Dame Jocelyn to give them the money
to start these things off. No.

254
00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:32,400
No, they don't. And so, you know,
some universities are, are, are,

255
00:16:33,180 --> 00:16:37,120
um, you know, looking at
how they can have, um,

256
00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:40,160
do you mean in terms of disciplines
or in terms of, oh, well, both really.

257
00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:41,880
Cause actually we can't, we,

258
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,680
we could fund loads more
scholars if we had more money.

259
00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:48,320
And the Institute of Physics has
done a great job, um, you know,

260
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,640
adding to the pot. So, uh, and you know,

261
00:16:52,030 --> 00:16:55,480
that that's been really important to us
to increase the number of awards that we

262
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,520
can make. So it's not just a
one-off static thing. Um, you know,

263
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,960
if anyone's listening to this
and wants to make a donation,

264
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:06,640
like there's a way of doing that, just
get in contact with the Bell, um, fund,

265
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:11,880
um, administrators at, at, at the
Institute of Physics. Um, so, so no,

266
00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:14,720
not everybody does have
that starting point. Um,

267
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,600
I think universities are investing their
own money in this kind of things, uh,

268
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,120
in this kind of, um, award and
support. Um, there are other,

269
00:17:23,980 --> 00:17:27,480
um, benefactors that are
doing that. You know,

270
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,440
universities do have money that,
that is, are given to them by donors.

271
00:17:32,460 --> 00:17:36,040
And, you know, I hope that,
I hope that, you know,

272
00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:40,280
the processes mean I, if, if there
are changes in processes, maybe we,

273
00:17:40,340 --> 00:17:44,480
we won't need to be doing this
going forward. But in the meantime,

274
00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:45,520
the more people that,

275
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,840
that see that there's something exciting
and important that they can do here,

276
00:17:50,740 --> 00:17:51,880
um, you know, the better.

277
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,210
Hopefully, as you say, people listening
will want to add money to the pot,

278
00:17:57,310 --> 00:17:59,130
but what if people are
listening and they think, well,

279
00:17:59,170 --> 00:18:02,330
I would like to apply to be one
of the scholars. What do they do?

280
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,890
Yeah, so our next round is, um,
it's open in the, in the autumn.

281
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,490
It's all done through their,
through a host university.

282
00:18:10,550 --> 00:18:13,730
So it's really important to start talking
to someone who might be a potential

283
00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:18,730
supervisor as soon as possible. Um, make
sure that you're eligible, you know,

284
00:18:18,730 --> 00:18:22,710
the eligibility criteria on
the are on the website. Um,

285
00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:25,350
I've just written an article,
which is in physics world,

286
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:29,070
which gives quite a bit more detail as
well. And I hope that that's accessible.

287
00:18:29,140 --> 00:18:31,990
It's, it sort of says a bit more
about what it is we're trying to do.

288
00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:36,870
Just to say Helen's article is free to
read now on the physics world website,

289
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:38,310
physics world.com.

290
00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:43,450
Um, but yeah, get in touch with,
with a prospective supervisor. Um,

291
00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:48,690
our deadlines are usually in
January. Um, so that's our deadline,

292
00:18:48,750 --> 00:18:53,130
but universities will have deadlines
before then. Um, and we usually hold,

293
00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:54,690
I mean, I'm sure we'll do it again,

294
00:18:54,990 --> 00:18:59,530
but every November we have a q and a
session, which is just open to anybody,

295
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,130
whether it's supervisors, postgraduate,
admissions tutors, students themselves,

296
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:07,290
um, to come along to
and just ask questions,

297
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:12,210
ask anything that they're curious
about. Um, so, so I would advise people,

298
00:19:12,350 --> 00:19:17,130
but the first thing is, you know, look
for a supervisor, uh, supervisor's,

299
00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:20,970
really important. The supervisor student
relationship is really important. Um,

300
00:19:20,990 --> 00:19:25,210
if you are one of the people who, um,
would be looking for a Topup award,

301
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,250
obviously you've already
got a supervisor, um,

302
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:31,250
you still need to be put
forward by your university.

303
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:34,770
So just check the process
and, and eligibility,

304
00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:38,330
and we're happy to answer
any questions anytime. Um,

305
00:19:38,330 --> 00:19:41,570
there's an email address
for, for the fund on,

306
00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:44,330
on the Institute of Physics
website. Um, you know,

307
00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:47,410
please do get in touch if you've got any
questions. We're happy to try and help.

308
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,220
I'd just like to say, you know, uh,

309
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,060
the institute have really put
themselves behind this. You know,

310
00:19:54,060 --> 00:19:57,740
they've given great support,
not just to administering, um,

311
00:19:57,930 --> 00:20:01,180
that the initial gift and, and,
and working, working that through,

312
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,820
but also the fundraising
that they're doing, um,

313
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,740
so that we can make double the number of
awards each year that we could make in,

314
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,700
in the first year. Okay. So that's
made a, a huge difference. But,

315
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,660
but also to the committee who
work alongside me, um, you know,

316
00:20:16,660 --> 00:20:21,540
they're silent in the background. Um,
they're, they're hugely important to, to,

317
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:21,960
to,

318
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,940
so that we can constantly reflect on
whether we've got things as right as

319
00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:31,060
we can. They put a lot of work into
assessing the applications and, and,

320
00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:34,660
and then go through, through, uh,
the interview process. And of course,

321
00:20:34,660 --> 00:20:39,580
they do that as volunteers.
And you know, it, it's, it,

322
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,540
it is a privilege to do it. I'll say
that from my own personal perspective,

323
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,220
but nonetheless, it's work.

324
00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:48,600
And I'm very grateful to all of them
for giving up their time for doing that.

325
00:20:53,620 --> 00:20:54,453
As it stands,

326
00:20:54,550 --> 00:20:59,400
just 17% of members of the
Institute of Physics identify as

327
00:20:59,400 --> 00:20:59,980
female.

328
00:20:59,980 --> 00:21:04,800
For men and women who are black l
lgbtqia a plus have a disability

329
00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:07,760
or from lower socioeconomic backgrounds,

330
00:21:08,050 --> 00:21:13,040
membership rates are even more
out of step with the rest of

331
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:13,873
the population.

332
00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:18,840
Joanna Sikka is a physicist who has
been successful in being accepted

333
00:21:19,230 --> 00:21:23,040
onto the Benell graduate fund.
Joanna says that in physics,

334
00:21:23,290 --> 00:21:26,840
she's a minority. As a
Polish immigrant, as a woman,

335
00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:29,400
and coming from a
working class background.

336
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:34,400
I'm Joanna, I'm a third year astrophysics
student at the University of Surrey.

337
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,040
I specialize in something called
galactic archeology. I focus on, uh,

338
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,970
something called, um,
local group galaxies.

339
00:21:42,670 --> 00:21:46,650
In particular the manian clouds.
These are galaxies that you can see,

340
00:21:47,730 --> 00:21:50,000
maybe not from the northern
hemisphere where we are,

341
00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:54,480
but from the southern hemisphere. Um,
they, you can see them with a naked eye.

342
00:21:55,420 --> 00:21:57,600
So they really are quite
in close touch to us.

343
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,440
And so they're really a beautiful
place to study galaxy formation and

344
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,120
evolution, because it can resolve
every single star. There were big,

345
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,800
fancy telescopes and really
studied their chemistry and, um,

346
00:22:10,090 --> 00:22:15,030
their ages and really understand how
this galaxy has formed and evolved over

347
00:22:15,030 --> 00:22:17,870
the last 12 billions of years.
But when I was a child, I, uh,

348
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:21,550
always wanted to know how things work.
And that sort of childlike curiosity.

349
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,360
I think when you get older,

350
00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:29,080
the childlike curiosity starts to sort
of be applied to things like school and,

351
00:22:29,140 --> 00:22:31,480
uh, and physics and how
do things around me work,

352
00:22:31,540 --> 00:22:35,120
and then how do things up there work and
you just keep going and keep going and

353
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,200
keep going. And suddenly you, you are
interested in how the universe works.

354
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,600
<laugh>, um, yeah, no, it's, uh, that,

355
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,120
I think that's how it started really
with me. I kept going and, uh,

356
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,440
I found physics at school really,
really interesting. Super cool.

357
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,520
Astrophysics was so awesome.

358
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,160
I think the pretty pictures always
helped with astrophysics and, you know,

359
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,880
I found it difficult at school. I
found it a bit, uh, challenging,

360
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,920
I think is the word, but I, I just kept
going cuz I, I kind of listened to,

361
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,480
you know, what my heart is saying,
wh which is, this feels right,

362
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,560
I really enjoy this and I
really want to pursue it.

363
00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:09,920
Are there many pretty pictures involved
in what you are doing at the moment?

364
00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:15,240
Luckily, yes. Uh, I use optical
telescopes, so I study the light. We see,

365
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:20,340
I resolve 20 billion stars
in a small galaxy called the,

366
00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:24,720
the small Mag Club. And yes, there
are pretty pictures guaranteed.

367
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,200
I think most of my time
though is trying to, um,

368
00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:33,270
write codes to study these
pictures better. But, uh,

369
00:23:33,970 --> 00:23:34,670
yes, I,

370
00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:39,190
I think I've sort of made that natural
bridge between what made me curious in

371
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:40,750
the first place versus where I am at now.

372
00:23:40,930 --> 00:23:42,750
Are there particular
telescopes that you are using?

373
00:23:43,450 --> 00:23:48,360
Yes, I use a dark into camera in, um,
Chile. It's a four meter telescope,

374
00:23:48,620 --> 00:23:51,200
and you might have heard of the
dark energy survey. Well, it's all,

375
00:23:51,550 --> 00:23:55,400
it's all tied to this idea
of dark energy. Uh, but uh,

376
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,760
there are a lot of applications
of these telescopes, right? So,

377
00:23:57,980 --> 00:23:59,360
so this telescope, um,

378
00:23:59,550 --> 00:24:03,680
it's a ground-based telescope and it has
a excellent view of the mag and clouds

379
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,440
in the, in the southern
hemisphere, you know,

380
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,040
in Chilean desert where you can really
see these things so beautifully.

381
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:11,560
How did you get interested in that then?

382
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,680
I remember when I was, uh,
applying for PhD positions, it's,

383
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,640
it's like the job market. It's quite
difficult to find a PhD position and I, I,

384
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,040
I was sure I really wanted this,

385
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,200
but there was also a lot of doubt in the
back of my mind, which was, you know,

386
00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:28,560
is this really right for me? It's
quite a, it's quite a big risk,

387
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,440
higher award scenario here. And, um, I,

388
00:24:34,190 --> 00:24:37,360
it's, it's so happened in the person
that I was sort of working with,

389
00:24:37,380 --> 00:24:41,640
cuz at the time I was sort of
on a, on like a master's, well,

390
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,760
I was on an integrated master's.
I was on like a placement,

391
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,600
and the person that looked after me
on that placement, she, um, was at my,

392
00:24:48,860 --> 00:24:50,440
my university.

393
00:24:50,820 --> 00:24:53,800
She got to sort of talk to me once and
kind of get to know me a bit better.

394
00:24:53,820 --> 00:24:56,640
And then, and she really encouraged
me to apply for the Bell,

395
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,360
but now Graduate Scholarship fund. And
at the time I thought, oh, you know,

396
00:25:00,430 --> 00:25:03,440
this is crazy. Like, I, I don't
qualify for this stuff. Like I,

397
00:25:03,740 --> 00:25:08,100
I'm used to like, you know, not
really never going for it. Like I, I,

398
00:25:08,260 --> 00:25:11,260
I don't really apply to things because
I just sort of have that mindset of,

399
00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:15,060
you know, why would they choose me,
why would they, all that stuff. So I,

400
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:20,260
I remember getting an email
and just dismissing it
completely. Uh, but she, she,

401
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,100
you know, she, she pushed me for
it. She pushed me for it, uh,

402
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:28,860
and we applied together
and she, yeah, she was, uh,

403
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,380
she helped me out a lot with it.
And, uh, we got the scholarship. Uh,

404
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,980
so it was really an amazing thing,
you know, put in all the, the,

405
00:25:35,980 --> 00:25:39,860
the financial stuff aside. It's, it's
really nice to have that recognition of,

406
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,500
Hey, you've done it. You know,
I've, I was quite used to sort of,

407
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:46,180
I've never won anything at school. Uh,

408
00:25:46,260 --> 00:25:51,100
I was quite used to sort of
just trying to keep up with

409
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:55,880
everything. I, I found physics
difficult, not because I was, you know,

410
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:59,000
not, not working hard enough. It's
just, I, I just found it difficult.

411
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,880
It's a hard subject. And I think I was,

412
00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:05,150
I grew up in a sort of a household
or like a mindset, you know,

413
00:26:05,150 --> 00:26:06,630
if you're not really
naturally good at something,

414
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:08,430
maybe it's not really
great for you, you know,

415
00:26:08,430 --> 00:26:09,950
you're not an Einstein kind of thing.

416
00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:14,950
And I think this kind of mindset is
about physics, let's put it this way.

417
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:16,950
Now you, you're not, yeah,
you're know, in Einstein,

418
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:21,110
you're not a smart male guy, I don't know,

419
00:26:21,210 --> 00:26:23,830
but you know, you are,
you're just yourself. Do.

420
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:24,710
You still have that mindset?

421
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,200
I think I'm very lucky now
that with the Be Now Fund,

422
00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:34,240
there is community of people
who are differently alike.

423
00:26:34,370 --> 00:26:38,320
We're quite alike in
our sort of experiences

424
00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:42,860
of being a, a diverse person in physics,

425
00:26:42,990 --> 00:26:47,960
physics or maybe not fitting the mold
or the classical mold of a person doing

426
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:48,793
physics.

427
00:26:49,540 --> 00:26:53,930
And I think being in our community
and sharing our experiences,

428
00:26:54,170 --> 00:26:58,070
although unique, they
are, they are the same.

429
00:26:58,690 --> 00:27:02,550
And so I'd like to say
that this mindset is,

430
00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:08,190
when I think about it, it has helped
a lot with this mindset of, you know,

431
00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:12,110
we don't really fit in or maybe you're
not really good enough to do this physics

432
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,520
stuff, you know, it's
so, I, I like to say it.

433
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,360
I don't think like that anymore
and it's helped me a lot,

434
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:18,840
but I can't say for sure.

435
00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:22,280
When you look around the
physics community today,

436
00:27:23,150 --> 00:27:26,520
does it look like you don't fit in?

437
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:27,920
Personally, I must say,

438
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,320
I think I'm really lucky because
at least the physics department,

439
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,120
where I am at at my university,
I think it's one of the most,

440
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:40,630
I think from, from speaking to
other people, it's very diverse.

441
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:43,750
It is very diverse. I think
everyone is made very,

442
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:48,350
what feel made to feel very welcome. But
there are definitely departments where,

443
00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:52,730
or you know, people I've
met who just don't quiet.

444
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,010
Yeah. You see that difference
between, between you two, it's, it's,

445
00:27:57,060 --> 00:28:00,450
there is a difference, but I think
it's, it is getting much better.

446
00:28:00,490 --> 00:28:03,370
I think there's a lot of progress
happening. You know, it's,

447
00:28:03,370 --> 00:28:06,930
it's the best way I can describe. It's
a bit of a butterfly effect, right?

448
00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:09,290
Where you have a butterfly flat
at its wings and when, you know,

449
00:28:09,290 --> 00:28:10,070
it just keeps going.

450
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:13,050
So hopefully that will keep going
for the next 10 or 20 years to come.

451
00:28:13,070 --> 00:28:16,780
But I think things have definitely
improved, but there is still work to do.

452
00:28:16,780 --> 00:28:17,940
There is still work to.

453
00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:22,660
Do. And do you think that that
improvement is related to the Bell Now

454
00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:23,480
graduate prize?

455
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,660
Yes, I can definitely see
that making a difference. Um,

456
00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:29,500
I know that one of the
criteria for the fund is that

457
00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:35,340
they're, they already interested in
seeing what the supervisory team is like.

458
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,380
And obviously

459
00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:41,950
if you're not really in a supervisory
team that understands these diverse things

460
00:28:41,970 --> 00:28:45,950
and you're not really gonna be
able to, to um, sort of fit,

461
00:28:45,970 --> 00:28:49,150
fit the ethos of what the
fund is about. I think it,

462
00:28:49,270 --> 00:28:51,510
I think the fund has really
helped trying to bridge the gap,

463
00:28:51,630 --> 00:28:55,830
I think sort of awareness of this,
these issues in this community and,

464
00:28:56,490 --> 00:29:00,710
and the fact that, um, you
know, Jocelyn Beba now herself,

465
00:29:00,810 --> 00:29:05,150
she felt like an outcast when she was to
bring her PhD and look at where she is

466
00:29:05,150 --> 00:29:05,950
now. You know, these,

467
00:29:05,950 --> 00:29:10,590
these kind of reminders are very needed
in the community and I think the fund

468
00:29:10,690 --> 00:29:12,590
really helps with these reminders.

469
00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:14,230
Do you meet often? Yes, we.

470
00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:18,550
Meet at least once a year. Um, obviously
with Covid it was more difficult, uh,

471
00:29:18,650 --> 00:29:21,310
but, uh, at least once a year and it's,

472
00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:24,950
it's very nice to share the experiences
during these, these sessions.

473
00:29:25,370 --> 00:29:30,150
We also have, uh, a little chat, uh,
me and the other awardees of Aria.

474
00:29:30,150 --> 00:29:35,080
We have a little chat so we can discuss
sort of how things are going on our end

475
00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:39,880
and support each other if need be.
But, uh, I think, yeah, I think the,

476
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,720
I think there's [inaudible]
has been successful.

477
00:29:42,970 --> 00:29:45,480
There is also a bit of
an online presence. Uh,

478
00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:50,440
I've definitely been part of that, so
that's been great. So yes, I, I think the,

479
00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:52,760
yeah, I think the community
does support itself.

480
00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:55,600
Are there any downsides
to the, to the scheme?

481
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,780
I want to say the scheme
should accept more people,

482
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,860
but I think that's completely fair.
I think that's with every scheme.

483
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,860
So I remember when we first started,
cuz I was part of the first cohort,

484
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,750
so it was very much fresh and very
much trying to work things out.

485
00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:16,300
I think a lot of us really wanted to do
more outreach stuff ourselves and have

486
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,700
the schemes give us a platform to do it.

487
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,780
But because of Covid of course
this was more difficult,

488
00:30:21,780 --> 00:30:26,460
things got a bit dropped, so I, I know
that, um, a lot of us have had ideas on,

489
00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:31,330
yeah, like I said, like diversity,
like, um, perhaps local stuff. But, uh,

490
00:30:31,330 --> 00:30:35,970
it would be nice if the scheme sort
of try to support that or maybe di

491
00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:39,620
maybe had a bit more sessions on, um,

492
00:30:41,130 --> 00:30:45,940
helping bring your diversity ideas
or diversity experiences to the

493
00:30:45,940 --> 00:30:46,900
community, you know, through,

494
00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:51,540
through helping you advise you on how
to establish mentoring platforms or any

495
00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:54,180
other idea. You may have some kind
of advisory thing going on there.

496
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:56,700
I know we really try to do things as,

497
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,300
as an amba as ambassadors of the
fund to help diversity in, uh,

498
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,240
in our respective areas. But it's
been quite difficult with, you know,

499
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,040
recovering from all of the,
the stuff of the last years.

500
00:31:09,470 --> 00:31:11,600
Yeah, no, fair enough.
You're in this community.

501
00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:16,640
Do you look at what the other graduates
and are looking at researching and

502
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,920
think, oh, that's interesting.

503
00:31:18,740 --> 00:31:21,520
Yes, for sure. And astronomy for sure. Um,

504
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,160
actually I met with one of the other
awardees at a conference last year that

505
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,510
looks at exoplanets and that is something
I've never had any exposure to just

506
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:31,830
because of the natural way my, um, my,

507
00:31:32,490 --> 00:31:36,350
my department just doesn't really look
at exoplanets and so that was really

508
00:31:36,550 --> 00:31:38,070
interesting to hear about
her work, for example,

509
00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:39,550
read about her work on a website.

510
00:31:39,650 --> 00:31:43,230
Of course we'll post a link to that
website on the physics world website,

511
00:31:43,230 --> 00:31:48,230
physics world.com in the
article associated with this
podcast episode where you

512
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:51,750
can read about those exoplanets and
all the other work being done by the

513
00:31:52,030 --> 00:31:55,390
successful graduates in
the Benell graduate fund.

514
00:31:55,570 --> 00:32:00,190
But I wondered once this PhD is out of
the way, what's next for Joanna? Three.

515
00:32:00,190 --> 00:32:04,910
Years is sort of the standard funding
for everybody and then you have six more

516
00:32:04,910 --> 00:32:07,750
months as an extension
you can apply to. Um,

517
00:32:08,980 --> 00:32:12,240
I'm definitely going to apply
for that because I, I must say,

518
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,240
I think Covid affected a lot of,
um, people's supervisory teams.

519
00:32:16,590 --> 00:32:18,320
This definitely happened
with me for sure. You know,

520
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,640
trying to figure out how to work with
somebody over distance and, you know,

521
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:26,060
things that I, I tend
to be quite stubborn,

522
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,420
so if I have like a
problem in, in my work,

523
00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:34,820
I I really train work on it for a
few days trying sober myself because,

524
00:32:34,820 --> 00:32:37,340
you know, I'm not, I don't really
wanna bother the other person,

525
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,090
but when I think it's very
normal to ask for help and

526
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:43,130
you know, it's,

527
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:46,740
it's the kind of thing that's made
easier when you're not over distance,

528
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:47,593
for example.

529
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,980
So the six months then you might
go to industry or stay in academia.

530
00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:56,300
I am definitely considering both options.
I would like to say in astronomy.

531
00:32:57,100 --> 00:33:02,100
I think that I am now good of the
fund because of the awareness of Ed

532
00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:04,510
I and diversity. I'm quite, I'm,

533
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:08,630
I I feel quite equipped to
say in astronomy because
I feel quite equipped with

534
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:13,550
the knowledge of what's normal and what's
just not acceptable in treatment of,

535
00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:18,510
you know, everyone in this, in this,
um, in this field for example, you know,

536
00:33:18,610 --> 00:33:21,910
if there's a whole thing
about pay gap for example, uh,

537
00:33:22,050 --> 00:33:26,710
I'm quite well versed now in, you know,
what's, what's, what's normal about,

538
00:33:26,730 --> 00:33:29,710
you know, I'm, I'm
quiet. Uh, I feel like I,

539
00:33:29,730 --> 00:33:32,990
my confidence has been quite
boosted by this fund for sure.

540
00:33:33,250 --> 00:33:37,550
So I know that applying for things
now <laugh> is a good thing.

541
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:39,710
I think I never used
to apply for anything.

542
00:33:39,790 --> 00:33:43,270
I used to feel quite disheartened about
doing it. I never really did it. Uh,

543
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:46,350
I feel like now looking
back on my PhD journey,

544
00:33:46,460 --> 00:33:50,030
I've definitely applied for a lot
of talks, a lot of summer schools,

545
00:33:50,150 --> 00:33:51,870
a lot of conferences, and
they have been successful.

546
00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:55,350
And I don't think I would've done that
if I was never really pushed by somebody

547
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:58,150
to say, you know, you should apply
for this. And I say, you know why?

548
00:33:58,310 --> 00:34:01,430
I mean I don't, I don't think I stand
a chance but just do it and then just,

549
00:34:01,730 --> 00:34:04,590
it just works out on its own. You know,
you don't get it, you don't get it,

550
00:34:04,590 --> 00:34:08,350
but if you do, it's great. You don't get
anything. It's not a reflection of you.

551
00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:12,910
There's also options outside of academia
and it's important to respect that uh,

552
00:34:13,050 --> 00:34:17,870
you don't have to stay in one job
all your life and if you decide

553
00:34:18,110 --> 00:34:22,150
academia is not for you anymore because
academia is a bit of a funny system,

554
00:34:22,150 --> 00:34:24,310
right? It's not, the job security isn't,

555
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,150
isn't always there and the salary
doesn't always match your working hours

556
00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:33,150
for example. And you, it's so
many factors at play. It's,

557
00:34:33,490 --> 00:34:37,950
you are not a failure if you want to
leave academia and go into industry.

558
00:34:38,490 --> 00:34:40,230
So really it's, it's okay.

559
00:34:40,700 --> 00:34:41,550
Just a quick aside,

560
00:34:41,550 --> 00:34:44,230
speaking of somebody who's moved
from industry into academia,

561
00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:47,350
you're not necessarily a failure
if you move the other way,

562
00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:50,390
at least I hope Anyway, back to Joanna,

563
00:34:51,170 --> 00:34:54,750
if somebody was thinking of applying
to the Bedale graduate fund,

564
00:34:54,940 --> 00:34:56,350
what would you say to them? But.

565
00:34:56,350 --> 00:34:58,710
The question was colleges me
off guard. Cuz I just never,

566
00:34:58,780 --> 00:35:00,590
it's such a personal thing I feel like,

567
00:35:00,590 --> 00:35:05,350
and I feel like it's quite important
to when writing these statements really

568
00:35:05,410 --> 00:35:10,390
dig into your reasons for why
you have done done the things you

569
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:12,870
have done. Because I feel
like a lot of people,

570
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:15,870
I feel like a lot of people

571
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,830
brush aside their achievements
or brush aside their

572
00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:25,820
difficult experiences and
stay modest and that's okay,

573
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,100
but wanna blind for things. You wanna,

574
00:35:28,270 --> 00:35:30,580
these people who have no
idea about all these things,

575
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,660
you really should look at everything
you've achieved and state every single

576
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:40,490
thing because it's so easy to
just sort of forget about the good

577
00:35:40,490 --> 00:35:44,450
stuff and it's so easy to focus on maybe
negatives and be hard on yourself, but,

578
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:48,010
but I would say make sure you really just,

579
00:35:49,610 --> 00:35:53,380
just think about everything
you've achieved. Even if
you think it's small, it,

580
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:55,940
it might really be consequential,
it might really matter. Brilliant.

581
00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:58,980
Yeah, lots of people struggle
with the old, you know,

582
00:35:58,980 --> 00:36:02,420
blowing your own trumpet thing, but
that's the moment to do it, right? Yeah,

583
00:36:02,420 --> 00:36:02,820
for sure. When you're.

584
00:36:02,820 --> 00:36:07,240
Applying for something, for sure.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah,

585
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,960
I think my, my per from
personal experience, my
supervisor's very good at that.

586
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,440
I think she, she's very good
at encouraging people to
write about this and that,

587
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,760
you know, whenever I,

588
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,360
I write something and I give it to her
and she knows my achievements better and

589
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:23,440
well better. Well she knows my
achievements, uh, well and the PhD,

590
00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:26,080
she always adds in things and
I just think, wow, that was,

591
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,840
I thought I was very inconsequential,
but obviously it mattered. So yeah,

592
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,280
I think, you know, my
supervisor is female as well,

593
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,400
so it's quite nice to have
that role model. I think the,

594
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,480
I think the fund, the,

595
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:43,960
the requirement to have a good supervisory
team that's aware of EDI has really

596
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,440
helped me personally cuz it made sure
I chose right supervisor for my own

597
00:36:48,610 --> 00:36:52,690
background or life experiences.
But I think a lot of people,

598
00:36:53,140 --> 00:36:55,410
there isn't much choice
sometimes when they have,

599
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,210
when they apply for PhDs and they
have to go with what they have.

600
00:36:59,270 --> 00:37:02,930
And so they might fall into the wrong
supervisory team and they're not really

601
00:37:02,930 --> 00:37:04,690
aware of this until it's a bit too late.

602
00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:08,810
I'd like to thank Helen Gleason and
Joanna Ska for talking to me for this

603
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:09,643
episode of the podcast.

604
00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:13,450
And if you'd like to hear more of that
interview from the Physics World Weekly

605
00:37:13,450 --> 00:37:15,210
podcast with Jocelyn Bell Benell,

606
00:37:15,550 --> 00:37:19,450
you'll find a link to it alongside the
article for this episode of the Physics

607
00:37:19,450 --> 00:37:22,130
World Stories podcast
on physics world.com.

608
00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:26,530
We'll be back next month when we'll be
looking at how artificial intelligence is

609
00:37:26,650 --> 00:37:30,970
changing physics and the role of the
physicist bringing exciting opportunities,

610
00:37:31,590 --> 00:37:35,610
but also developments to be
wary of. For this month though,

611
00:37:36,070 --> 00:37:39,330
I'd like to leave the
last word to Joanna Sikka.

612
00:37:39,850 --> 00:37:43,290
I look at different kinds of stars,
different ages, different medalist. Yeah.

613
00:37:43,490 --> 00:37:46,970
I focus on something called Stella
Populations and in my head it's quite

614
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:48,490
fascinated in that, uh,

615
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:51,770
style is so different and so unique
and they all make up a whole galaxy.

616
00:37:52,510 --> 00:37:56,730
And I find it a really pretty bridge
between what I'm passionate about,

617
00:37:56,730 --> 00:38:01,650
which is diversity, and then my work,
which is big diversity of stars, right?

618
00:38:01,790 --> 00:38:03,370
And analyzing every single one of them.

619
00:38:03,370 --> 00:38:06,290
And they're all just so important
because then you can see how,

620
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:10,090
how this galaxy is formed over
time and it's a complete picture.

621
00:38:10,220 --> 00:38:13,850
While if you miss out
a certain kind of star,

622
00:38:13,850 --> 00:38:18,610
certain kind of population, sort of
certain age or certain, certain type,

623
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,050
then that picture is not complete.

624
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,130
Physics world.