Quantum steampunk: we explore the art and science

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Weekly

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Podcast.

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I'm Hamish Johnston.

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Today,

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I'm going to explore the science and art

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of quantum steampunk

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with a theoretical physicist

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and a sculptor.

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But first, I'd like to thank Atlas Technologies

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for their generous support of this episode.

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This episode is supported by Atlas Technologies.

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are used in quantum applications,

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And they're built in a fully integrated facility

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Let Atlas help you solve your next

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Learn more at atlasuhv.com.

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Earlier this year, I had the pleasure of

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attending the Global

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Physics Summit of the American Physical Society,

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which attracted about 14,000

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physicists

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to a huge convention center in Anaheim, California.

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That's where I met the steampunk artist,

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Bruce Rosenbaum,

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who is exhibiting his beautiful sculpture

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of a quantum engine.

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It was created in collaboration with physicists,

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including

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Nicole

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Junger

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Halpern,

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who pioneered the scientific field of quantum steampunk.

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I was so taken by the art and

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science of quantum steampunk

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that I promised Bruce that I would have

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him and Nicole on the podcast.

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And here we are.

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Nicole joins me from Maryland

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and Bruce from Massachusetts.

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Welcome to both of you to the podcast.

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Thanks very much for having us. Yes. Thanks

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for having us.

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So Bruce, can we start with you? Can

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you give us an idea of what

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steampunk is?

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Sure. Well, it it sounds like a simple

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question. What is steampunk? But I think, you

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have 10 people in a room. You ask

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that question, you're gonna get 10 different answers.

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And there's probably even a difference between

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Nicole and I in terms of exactly what

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steampunk is. But for me, it's it it

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has its roots in science fiction.

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AW Jeter,

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science fiction author,

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in the nineteen eighties actually came up with

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the, the term statement.

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And,

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really, it's,

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I kind of look at it,

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in in a science fiction

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type of realm where

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it's this what if scenario, kind of this

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reimagined history. So

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it's what if during the Victorian period or

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the industrial age, that's,

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you know, roughly eighteen fifties to the nineteen

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hundreds. What if the people of that time,

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the

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the engineers,

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the,

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the inventors, the innovators,

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what if they had knowledge

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on modern or futuristic

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technology?

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How that would have changed anything. It's it's

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almost imagining if the computer

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was invented a hundred years before it actually

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was,

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invented, how that would have changed everything.

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And just to kinda give you a quick,

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story, a real story

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that,

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that could have been that scenario,

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if people are familiar with Charles Babbage,

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a mathematician,

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scientist,

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from England,

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I think it was in the late eighteen

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hundreds, he actually came up

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with a

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mechanical computer, basically,

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called the difference engine or the analytical engine.

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And he actually drew it. He came up

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with the design, which was very complicated.

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And like a lot of inventors, you know,

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they're they're looking for funding or money to

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actually build thing,

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and he couldn't find funding.

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And,

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it wasn't until, I think, in the early

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two thousands, there was a museum in England

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that actually built it, this mechanical computer based

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on this design, and it actually worked.

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So people ask, well, what if we actually

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did get funding?

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How could have

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brought our modern computer, you know, in much

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earlier.

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And even, you know, maybe we would have

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our quantum computer

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right now if if that would have happened.

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So,

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but to to kind of put it in

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in in almost elementary or kind of math

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terms, I really think that,

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steampunk,

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is this fusion of history,

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art, and

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So that so that's Babbage's folly that that

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you're referring to. And I, I mean, I

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I was under the impression that it I

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mean, it really fits in with your definition

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of steampunk punk because wasn't part of the

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problem that

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the the the components

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that Babbage

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required in his calculating machine

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couldn't be machined

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to the to to the exacting tolerances

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back then, and it was it it it

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was only really with modern

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machining tools that,

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that that we could actually make one that

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wouldn't, you know, sort of immediately

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jam up because of

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imprecision. I mean, maybe that's apocryphal. Maybe

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that's my view of it. But I I

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do remember reading that somewhere, maybe when when

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his machine was was finally built. Yeah. I

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think he was ahead of his time in

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terms of actually, you know, fabricating it.

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But, I think that the tough part was

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just convincing people because it was so complicated.

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Like, people would be looking at it and,

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like, how is this thing gonna actually work

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and and think?

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You know? So so it wasn't till later,

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but but this is, you know, I think

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with with a lot of inventions,

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it is a confluence

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of different,

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technologies that need to come together

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to make it happen.

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So the timing of of

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these creations are always kind of dependent on

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what's going on in the world.

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And, Bruce, I met you,

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back in March at the Global Physics Summit

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in California.

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And you were exhibiting a a wonderful

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sculpture

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of a of a quantum engine.

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And I think it really cut caught the

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imagination of a lot of physicists,

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at the conference. Can you can you describe

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that work?

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Sure. So just a kinda little bit of

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background too on how I got connected to

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Nicole.

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I'm always looking for collaborations,

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and not with just other artists, but

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because I think steampunk is history plus art

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plus technology, I'm connecting with scientists

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and, other people in the STEM

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STEAM fields.

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And,

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I have this

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I set up a Google alert that basically

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gives me any links to anything that comes

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out about steampunk.

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And one day, what pops up?

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Quantum Steampunk.

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And I look closer, and it's Nicole's.

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She has a presentation. She has a book.

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And I'm, like, going, wow. This is, like,

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you know, something that, I'm really interested in

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looking into.

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We spoke to Nicole, and she was actually

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looking,

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potentially for an artist to help create kind

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of an educating

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and entertaining

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kind of,

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device,

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in installation that could

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teach people on,

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how classical thermodynamics

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could translate

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and

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build into

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quantum

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thermodynamics

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or or basically being able to control

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an an atom.

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And so,

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so we just

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we were kind of going back and forth.

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Like, there is no steampunk quantum engine right

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now, but what could it look like?

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And,

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I always loved the armillary

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stair, which is a representation of our solar

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system with kind of the sun in the

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middle and the planets going around it,

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almost like an atom too, what's going on

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going on inside.

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And so we kinda came up with this,

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the structure of what it could look like,

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and then

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was able to

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provide,

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the science, the real science behind it,

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in terms of what

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elements

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could,

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make sense in terms of creating this this

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engine.

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And so

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we just went back and forth and created

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a really cool

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illustration.

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And if you've seen Nicole in her presentation,

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she usually has it as her as her

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background,

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and

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this was the inspiration for actually,

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fabricating.

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And part of the steampunk ethos also is,

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you know, we wanted to engage.

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So how do we do that? We do

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that through movement,

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through lighting, through sound. So that was an

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important part of the way that we were

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going to actually build this. So we worked

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with a

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group near me in Massachusetts,

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empire,

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and they,

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were able to CAD it.

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We actually put it, you know, in a

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computer drawing,

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and,

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Nicole and I kinda went back and forth

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and, you know, wanted to make sure that

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the elements not only look good but make

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sense,

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in terms of its functionality.

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And,

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and part of it was that we created,

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you know, from classical thermodynamics,

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we had these these classical,

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engines

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with pistons and, you know,

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cycles and all that. So that was surrounding

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the sphere,

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and it was those elements that actually powered,

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the,

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the appearance of lasers

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that would go into a chamber,

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for trapped ions. And I'm I'll let Nicole

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talk more about, you know, how this all

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works. But having the movement and having the

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lasers kind of pop on,

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and and then also being able to,

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00:11:06,785 --> 00:11:09,504
have a sound profile to it. So what

286
00:11:09,504 --> 00:11:11,264
does it sound for an engine to, you

287
00:11:11,264 --> 00:11:13,985
know, to develop, for it to turn on

288
00:11:13,985 --> 00:11:17,285
lasers to to ignite these, these ions?

289
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,639
So we had fun with that too in

290
00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:21,100
terms of how that would do.

291
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,960
And then so you would come up, you

292
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,920
hit the the button, and it comes alive.

293
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,779
It's about a sixty second cycle.

294
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,245
And it was it was really

295
00:11:31,944 --> 00:11:32,924
fantastic being

296
00:11:33,384 --> 00:11:34,985
at the at the summit because I had

297
00:11:34,985 --> 00:11:37,084
physicists coming and thinking

298
00:11:37,544 --> 00:11:40,024
this was, like, real, that we were actually

299
00:11:40,024 --> 00:11:43,544
dropping ions and, like, you know, making making

300
00:11:43,544 --> 00:11:45,485
this this, steam engine.

301
00:11:46,139 --> 00:11:46,639
But,

302
00:11:47,259 --> 00:11:48,800
again, an artist representation,

303
00:11:50,139 --> 00:11:52,320
with this kind of brainchild of

304
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:53,920
of an artist in

305
00:11:55,259 --> 00:11:57,279
a in a quantum theoretical fist.

306
00:11:58,345 --> 00:11:59,625
Yeah. It is,

307
00:12:00,024 --> 00:12:02,524
I mean, it's a very beautiful object. And

308
00:12:02,585 --> 00:12:04,825
the thing that that struck me is that,

309
00:12:05,465 --> 00:12:08,205
you know, just a a few yards away

310
00:12:08,264 --> 00:12:10,365
in the sort of main exhibition,

311
00:12:11,039 --> 00:12:11,940
there were companies,

312
00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:15,940
that were selling stuff that looked

313
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,539
a lot like your

314
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,139
sculpture, which,

315
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,700
you know, I I thought that was fantastic.

316
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:22,820
So,

317
00:12:23,919 --> 00:12:26,259
Nicole, you worked with Bruce,

318
00:12:26,825 --> 00:12:28,285
to create this sculpture.

319
00:12:28,904 --> 00:12:31,545
And I I suppose it's obvious looking at

320
00:12:31,545 --> 00:12:34,684
the sculpture that that a physicist was involved.

321
00:12:35,225 --> 00:12:37,644
What sort of ideas did you contribute?

322
00:12:38,985 --> 00:12:41,649
The first was the overall notion of quantum

323
00:12:41,649 --> 00:12:43,429
steampunk as Bruce described.

324
00:12:44,129 --> 00:12:46,950
One contribution was writing the grant proposal.

325
00:12:47,330 --> 00:12:50,129
It turns out that art, like science, involves

326
00:12:50,129 --> 00:12:52,149
a lot of just grinding logistics,

327
00:12:52,915 --> 00:12:54,615
including applying for funding.

328
00:12:57,154 --> 00:12:58,835
The kind of core notion is that of

329
00:12:58,835 --> 00:12:59,894
a quantum engine.

330
00:13:00,274 --> 00:13:01,254
Quantum engines

331
00:13:01,634 --> 00:13:02,295
have been

332
00:13:02,915 --> 00:13:06,195
theorized about since 1959 and 1967.

333
00:13:06,195 --> 00:13:08,179
The first proposal for a quantum engine was

334
00:13:08,179 --> 00:13:10,839
put forth then. They've been realized experimentally

335
00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:12,600
on a variety of platforms.

336
00:13:13,139 --> 00:13:15,000
We chose a trapped ion platform

337
00:13:15,699 --> 00:13:16,759
in part because

338
00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:20,839
I'm based at the University of Maryland, and

339
00:13:21,235 --> 00:13:22,294
Maryland has

340
00:13:22,915 --> 00:13:24,054
a lot of

341
00:13:24,915 --> 00:13:27,554
work on trapped ions and is partially known

342
00:13:27,554 --> 00:13:28,215
for that.

343
00:13:28,595 --> 00:13:28,995
So the

344
00:13:29,875 --> 00:13:31,794
we can get into later what a quantum

345
00:13:31,794 --> 00:13:32,695
engine is.

346
00:13:33,475 --> 00:13:35,254
But one reason why

347
00:13:35,715 --> 00:13:36,215
the

348
00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:40,220
center of the sculpture, which has the ion

349
00:13:40,220 --> 00:13:41,680
trap, looks so realistic

350
00:13:42,139 --> 00:13:43,920
is I have the good fortune

351
00:13:44,379 --> 00:13:46,620
to be friends with an ion trapper in

352
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:49,660
Maryland, Elena Green, and she very kindly let

353
00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:51,180
me ask her a whole bunch of questions

354
00:13:51,180 --> 00:13:53,394
about how to make this piece look particularly

355
00:13:53,394 --> 00:13:53,894
realistic.

356
00:13:54,674 --> 00:13:56,134
Also, Bruce mentioned

357
00:13:56,995 --> 00:13:59,174
the armillary sphere, which is,

358
00:14:00,274 --> 00:14:03,095
an old time instrument and a very beautiful

359
00:14:03,394 --> 00:14:04,615
object that evokes

360
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,659
steampunk or clock punk.

361
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:07,860
The

362
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:09,360
the this

363
00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:11,759
so there is a sphere that bounds the

364
00:14:11,759 --> 00:14:12,259
sculpture

365
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,100
very beautifully, I think. It evokes the armillary

366
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,639
sphere. And on the other hand, it evokes

367
00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:19,539
the Bloch sphere.

368
00:14:19,855 --> 00:14:20,674
So the Bloch

369
00:14:21,054 --> 00:14:24,035
sphere represents the possible states of a qubit,

370
00:14:24,095 --> 00:14:25,955
the basic unit of quantum information.

371
00:14:27,774 --> 00:14:28,674
We also

372
00:14:29,934 --> 00:14:30,434
included

373
00:14:30,815 --> 00:14:33,715
a an arrow that represents a Bloch vector.

374
00:14:33,830 --> 00:14:35,590
So suppose that we have some qubits, a

375
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:37,129
basic unit of quantum information,

376
00:14:38,149 --> 00:14:40,649
may be represented by within a trapped ion.

377
00:14:40,789 --> 00:14:43,529
This trapped ion is in some quantum state,

378
00:14:43,830 --> 00:14:47,110
which is represented geometrically by a point on

379
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:48,649
or in the Bloch sphere.

380
00:14:49,235 --> 00:14:50,054
And when we

381
00:14:51,394 --> 00:14:53,735
do physics or do quantum computation,

382
00:14:54,434 --> 00:14:56,294
we often will represent

383
00:14:56,834 --> 00:14:59,315
the state of the qubits with an arrow

384
00:14:59,315 --> 00:15:01,154
that points from the center of the sphere

385
00:15:01,154 --> 00:15:02,389
out to

386
00:15:02,769 --> 00:15:05,110
the point that represents that that

387
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:08,230
really is a solid representation of the state.

388
00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:11,350
Bruce found a beautiful arrow that was,

389
00:15:12,050 --> 00:15:12,550
fabricated

390
00:15:12,930 --> 00:15:15,250
in the early nineteen hundreds to serve as

391
00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:16,309
our block vector.

392
00:15:16,964 --> 00:15:17,464
The

393
00:15:18,804 --> 00:15:20,424
sculpture also has

394
00:15:21,284 --> 00:15:21,865
a representation

395
00:15:22,404 --> 00:15:25,125
of a battery that might be charged by

396
00:15:25,125 --> 00:15:26,424
the engines in

397
00:15:26,884 --> 00:15:27,464
the sculpture,

398
00:15:28,245 --> 00:15:29,464
and it has a representation

399
00:15:29,845 --> 00:15:32,330
of a clock that would time an engine

400
00:15:32,330 --> 00:15:32,830
cycle.

401
00:15:33,529 --> 00:15:35,789
Also, the sculpture has representations

402
00:15:36,330 --> 00:15:38,029
of hot and cold reservoirs,

403
00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:40,990
which play key roles in

404
00:15:41,370 --> 00:15:43,549
the functioning of a heat engine.

405
00:15:44,764 --> 00:15:46,764
I see. And I I wanted to ask

406
00:15:46,764 --> 00:15:50,065
you, Nicole, about the phrase quantum steampunk,

407
00:15:50,684 --> 00:15:53,085
which which you've coined. I mean, it it,

408
00:15:53,085 --> 00:15:54,705
you know, it sounds like a fun

409
00:15:55,085 --> 00:15:58,384
idea, but it it it's a physics concept,

410
00:15:58,445 --> 00:15:59,184
isn't it?

411
00:15:59,610 --> 00:16:00,570
The this,

412
00:16:01,289 --> 00:16:03,149
is it the idea of quantum steampunk?

413
00:16:03,450 --> 00:16:04,970
Can can you talk a bit about the

414
00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:07,070
physics of quantum steampunk?

415
00:16:08,250 --> 00:16:08,750
Sure.

416
00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:11,389
Quantum steampunk is

417
00:16:11,875 --> 00:16:14,375
in part another term that I use for

418
00:16:14,514 --> 00:16:16,675
and in part a term for the spirit

419
00:16:16,675 --> 00:16:17,975
and aesthetic of

420
00:16:18,595 --> 00:16:20,295
the field of quantum thermodynamics.

421
00:16:20,995 --> 00:16:21,975
The quantum thermodynamics

422
00:16:22,514 --> 00:16:25,559
is a subfield of quantum physics that has

423
00:16:26,039 --> 00:16:28,360
been around for many decades, but it started

424
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,379
booming within the past fifteen years.

425
00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:32,460
What is quantum thermodynamics?

426
00:16:32,919 --> 00:16:35,179
Well, first, what is ordinary thermodynamics?

427
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:36,620
The thermodynamics

428
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,580
is the study of energy. It was inspired

429
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,100
by the Industrial Revolution.

430
00:16:41,615 --> 00:16:43,615
So it was inspired by the historical setting

431
00:16:43,615 --> 00:16:46,914
that Bruce alluded to when defining steampunk.

432
00:16:48,254 --> 00:16:49,315
During this era,

433
00:16:49,855 --> 00:16:51,875
during the eighteen hundreds, people were

434
00:16:52,815 --> 00:16:55,454
realizing engines on a large scale for the

435
00:16:55,454 --> 00:16:56,190
first time

436
00:16:56,509 --> 00:16:57,649
to drive factories.

437
00:16:58,110 --> 00:17:00,990
So naturally, people wanted to understand how efficiently

438
00:17:00,990 --> 00:17:02,370
these engines could operate.

439
00:17:02,909 --> 00:17:03,409
Thermodynamics

440
00:17:03,789 --> 00:17:06,269
helps us understand what are the limitations on

441
00:17:06,269 --> 00:17:06,769
engines,

442
00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:09,069
what are heat and work, how do we

443
00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:12,049
quantify them, what are the relationships amongst them.

444
00:17:12,884 --> 00:17:13,384
In,

445
00:17:14,404 --> 00:17:16,105
this theory of thermodynamics

446
00:17:16,644 --> 00:17:17,144
was

447
00:17:17,765 --> 00:17:19,705
inspired by large classical systems,

448
00:17:20,644 --> 00:17:21,144
but

449
00:17:21,845 --> 00:17:24,164
there are quantum systems to which work and

450
00:17:24,164 --> 00:17:25,144
heat and efficiency

451
00:17:25,445 --> 00:17:27,720
are relevant as well. For instance,

452
00:17:28,419 --> 00:17:30,599
for most systems to

453
00:17:31,139 --> 00:17:33,779
exhibit quantum phenomena, they have to be cooled

454
00:17:33,779 --> 00:17:36,579
to very low temperatures, and cooling is a

455
00:17:36,579 --> 00:17:37,799
thermodynamic process.

456
00:17:38,579 --> 00:17:39,799
So in quantum thermodynamics,

457
00:17:40,555 --> 00:17:43,535
in part, well, I see us as addressing

458
00:17:43,595 --> 00:17:44,575
three main questions.

459
00:17:45,035 --> 00:17:46,795
First, we ask, how can the laws of

460
00:17:46,795 --> 00:17:47,295
thermodynamics

461
00:17:47,755 --> 00:17:48,494
be extended

462
00:17:49,515 --> 00:17:50,654
so that we can see

463
00:17:51,115 --> 00:17:53,434
how exactly they apply to small and quantum

464
00:17:53,434 --> 00:17:55,515
systems, so even systems that can entangle with

465
00:17:55,515 --> 00:17:57,690
each other? And sometimes we can use tools

466
00:17:57,690 --> 00:17:59,230
from quantum information theory

467
00:17:59,529 --> 00:18:02,349
to prove more detailed, more refined versions

468
00:18:03,049 --> 00:18:04,349
of the laws of thermodynamics.

469
00:18:05,369 --> 00:18:08,474
Second, we know from quantum information processing that

470
00:18:08,714 --> 00:18:12,015
quantum phenomena such as entanglement can enhance information

471
00:18:12,075 --> 00:18:13,694
processing tasks such as computation.

472
00:18:14,554 --> 00:18:17,194
Just as there are information processing tasks, there

473
00:18:17,194 --> 00:18:17,855
are thermodynamic

474
00:18:18,154 --> 00:18:21,615
tasks such as extracting work and powering batteries.

475
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:25,180
So we ask, how can quantum phenomena enhance

476
00:18:25,180 --> 00:18:26,480
thermodynamic tasks?

477
00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:28,940
And finally, we can look at a system

478
00:18:28,940 --> 00:18:31,359
that is processing energy and ask,

479
00:18:32,059 --> 00:18:35,039
what behaviors can this system exhibit

480
00:18:35,595 --> 00:18:37,775
if it's quantum and not if it's classical?

481
00:18:37,994 --> 00:18:38,815
So we use

482
00:18:39,275 --> 00:18:39,775
thermodynamics

483
00:18:40,315 --> 00:18:43,434
to understand better what divides the classical realm

484
00:18:43,434 --> 00:18:44,654
from the quantum realm.

485
00:18:45,035 --> 00:18:46,575
So I see quantum thermodynamics

486
00:18:47,115 --> 00:18:47,615
as

487
00:18:48,509 --> 00:18:49,009
combining

488
00:18:49,710 --> 00:18:51,250
the Victorian setting

489
00:18:51,549 --> 00:18:52,289
of thermodynamics

490
00:18:53,070 --> 00:18:56,130
with the cutting edge and partially futuristic

491
00:18:57,070 --> 00:18:57,570
technology

492
00:18:58,029 --> 00:19:00,690
of quantum information science. I see

493
00:19:01,150 --> 00:19:01,650
steampunk

494
00:19:02,105 --> 00:19:04,345
or I see quantum thermodynamics as the real

495
00:19:04,345 --> 00:19:05,884
world version of steampunk.

496
00:19:06,265 --> 00:19:08,265
And to emphasize that fact, I use the

497
00:19:08,265 --> 00:19:10,825
term quantum steampunk, so partially to refer to

498
00:19:10,825 --> 00:19:13,545
the field of quantum thermodynamics and partially to

499
00:19:13,545 --> 00:19:14,924
refer to its aesthetic.

500
00:19:15,619 --> 00:19:17,619
I see. And one thing I wanted to

501
00:19:17,619 --> 00:19:19,080
ask you, Nicole, is,

502
00:19:19,779 --> 00:19:21,700
you know, I can remember many, many years

503
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:23,799
ago when I was a physics undergraduate.

504
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:25,320
We studied,

505
00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:29,460
quantum statistical mechanics where, you know, it's very

506
00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:30,920
important whether the

507
00:19:31,384 --> 00:19:31,884
components,

508
00:19:32,865 --> 00:19:35,644
of a system were fermions or bosons and,

509
00:19:35,704 --> 00:19:37,224
you know, we sort of added up all

510
00:19:37,224 --> 00:19:39,484
the degrees of freedom, etcetera, etcetera.

511
00:19:40,024 --> 00:19:42,204
Is I mean, is that different

512
00:19:42,585 --> 00:19:43,085
to

513
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:44,640
quantum thermodynamics?

514
00:19:45,259 --> 00:19:47,839
Or is is that a part of quantum

515
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:48,400
thermodynamics?

516
00:19:48,859 --> 00:19:50,539
Because, you know, that's what I thought of

517
00:19:50,539 --> 00:19:51,039
immediately,

518
00:19:51,740 --> 00:19:53,680
the sort of statistical mechanics

519
00:19:54,140 --> 00:19:55,740
of it. But, I mean, it sounds like

520
00:19:55,740 --> 00:19:56,960
there's something more,

521
00:19:57,954 --> 00:19:59,014
I don't know, fundamental

522
00:19:59,315 --> 00:20:00,694
with quantum thermodynamics.

523
00:20:01,234 --> 00:20:02,454
Is that right? Or

524
00:20:02,755 --> 00:20:03,154
are they

525
00:20:03,714 --> 00:20:05,014
I suppose they're related.

526
00:20:05,875 --> 00:20:08,434
Yes. I definitely say that they're related. I

527
00:20:08,434 --> 00:20:11,075
actually wrote a blog post exactly about your

528
00:20:11,075 --> 00:20:11,575
question

529
00:20:11,875 --> 00:20:13,950
because someone else asked it of me a

530
00:20:13,950 --> 00:20:14,690
while ago.

531
00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:17,070
One of the main points of that blog

532
00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:19,170
post is that thermodynamics

533
00:20:19,549 --> 00:20:22,109
is an operational theory. When we use an

534
00:20:22,109 --> 00:20:24,849
operational theory, often we think about

535
00:20:25,325 --> 00:20:27,805
an agent who is trying to perform some

536
00:20:27,805 --> 00:20:28,305
task

537
00:20:28,845 --> 00:20:30,224
given certain resources.

538
00:20:30,684 --> 00:20:33,005
We ask how efficiently the agent can perform

539
00:20:33,005 --> 00:20:33,744
this task.

540
00:20:34,525 --> 00:20:35,904
For instance, in thermodynamics,

541
00:20:36,444 --> 00:20:37,424
we might say,

542
00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:40,059
suppose we have a hot reservoir and a

543
00:20:40,059 --> 00:20:40,799
cold reservoir,

544
00:20:41,179 --> 00:20:44,880
how efficiently can we extract work from this

545
00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:45,839
set of reservoirs?

546
00:20:48,140 --> 00:20:51,019
Information theory two is an operational theory. For

547
00:20:51,019 --> 00:20:52,960
instance, we will often think about

548
00:20:53,365 --> 00:20:55,464
an Alice who wants to

549
00:20:55,845 --> 00:20:58,644
send information down a channel to Bob, and

550
00:20:58,644 --> 00:20:59,304
we ask

551
00:20:59,765 --> 00:21:02,005
how many bits of information, how many basic

552
00:21:02,005 --> 00:21:02,984
units of information

553
00:21:03,444 --> 00:21:05,970
can she squeeze her message into. So how

554
00:21:05,970 --> 00:21:08,450
efficiently can she send her information down the

555
00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:08,950
channel?

556
00:21:09,569 --> 00:21:10,789
That's a reason why

557
00:21:11,329 --> 00:21:12,929
it makes a lot of sense to apply

558
00:21:12,929 --> 00:21:15,029
quantum information theory to thermodynamics

559
00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:17,029
to get quantum thermodynamics.

560
00:21:18,690 --> 00:21:20,069
Oh, statistical mechanics

561
00:21:20,934 --> 00:21:22,955
definitely plays a role in thermodynamics.

562
00:21:23,815 --> 00:21:25,575
Just the focus tends to be a little

563
00:21:25,575 --> 00:21:26,075
different.

564
00:21:26,535 --> 00:21:28,955
When we're doing statistical mechanics, usually,

565
00:21:29,494 --> 00:21:31,434
we are calculating a partition function.

566
00:21:32,134 --> 00:21:34,234
Whereas when we're doing thermodynamics,

567
00:21:34,669 --> 00:21:36,049
we're thinking more about

568
00:21:37,710 --> 00:21:38,210
tasks,

569
00:21:38,589 --> 00:21:39,089
resources,

570
00:21:39,630 --> 00:21:40,130
efficiencies,

571
00:21:40,750 --> 00:21:41,250
and

572
00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:44,029
how we can break down the analysis of

573
00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:46,509
these efficiencies in quantities such as heat and

574
00:21:46,509 --> 00:21:47,255
work. Right.

575
00:21:48,355 --> 00:21:50,035
I see. So so I I can see

576
00:21:50,035 --> 00:21:52,355
the you know, there's a complete analogy, isn't

577
00:21:52,355 --> 00:21:54,375
there, to the to the Victorian

578
00:21:54,835 --> 00:21:55,335
engineers

579
00:21:55,954 --> 00:21:56,454
who

580
00:21:56,994 --> 00:21:59,335
really weren't interested in the microscopic

581
00:22:00,035 --> 00:22:02,355
nature of their systems. They just wanted a

582
00:22:02,355 --> 00:22:03,630
more efficient

583
00:22:04,250 --> 00:22:06,990
steam engine or a better a better pump.

584
00:22:08,329 --> 00:22:10,349
And and I suppose we want

585
00:22:11,049 --> 00:22:13,390
we want to be able to process quantum

586
00:22:13,450 --> 00:22:15,470
information in in a better way.

587
00:22:16,734 --> 00:22:19,375
Yes. So they had very particular goals. They

588
00:22:19,375 --> 00:22:21,375
had very particular tasks in mind, and they

589
00:22:21,375 --> 00:22:23,075
were limited to certain resources.

590
00:22:23,934 --> 00:22:26,414
Nowadays, since we know about quantum theory and

591
00:22:26,414 --> 00:22:27,075
we use

592
00:22:27,615 --> 00:22:29,875
density matrices all over our calculations,

593
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,819
I think that maybe the traditional

594
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,099
boundary between statistical mechanics and thermodynamics

595
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,740
is breaking down a little bit. So

596
00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:41,380
one will often hear that

597
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:44,099
if one is using probability distributions

598
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:45,539
over microstates

599
00:22:46,275 --> 00:22:46,775
classically

600
00:22:47,234 --> 00:22:47,734
or

601
00:22:48,115 --> 00:22:49,095
density matrices

602
00:22:49,875 --> 00:22:52,515
when using a quantum model, then one is

603
00:22:52,515 --> 00:22:55,654
doing statistical mechanics rather than thermodynamics,

604
00:22:55,955 --> 00:22:58,855
which deals only with macroscopic properties.

605
00:22:59,634 --> 00:23:00,210
I think

606
00:23:00,529 --> 00:23:03,589
that view might not be the most relevant

607
00:23:03,970 --> 00:23:06,390
to today's world and to quantum thermodynamics

608
00:23:07,009 --> 00:23:09,269
because it is useful to use the apparatus

609
00:23:09,490 --> 00:23:12,069
of microscopic quantum theory and quantum thermodynamics.

610
00:23:12,904 --> 00:23:14,444
Just when we do quantum thermodynamics,

611
00:23:15,304 --> 00:23:16,044
we can

612
00:23:16,345 --> 00:23:19,224
use, say, the density matrix in order to

613
00:23:19,224 --> 00:23:21,484
calculate quantities like work and heat

614
00:23:22,025 --> 00:23:23,164
and derive

615
00:23:24,025 --> 00:23:26,505
more detailed versions of the second law of

616
00:23:26,505 --> 00:23:27,005
thermodynamics

617
00:23:28,099 --> 00:23:30,680
and reason about quantities like heat and work.

618
00:23:32,019 --> 00:23:32,980
I see. And,

619
00:23:33,460 --> 00:23:35,380
Bruce, I'd like to to to bring you

620
00:23:35,380 --> 00:23:36,119
back in.

621
00:23:37,059 --> 00:23:37,559
You're,

622
00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:40,980
you're not a physicist. You don't I don't

623
00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:43,559
think you have a a background in physics,

624
00:23:43,994 --> 00:23:47,295
but you've really embraced the concept of quantum

625
00:23:47,434 --> 00:23:47,934
steampunk,

626
00:23:48,714 --> 00:23:51,194
in your art. Did you have to learn

627
00:23:51,194 --> 00:23:52,095
some basic

628
00:23:52,394 --> 00:23:55,134
quantum physics in order to create,

629
00:23:55,835 --> 00:23:56,575
the sculpture?

630
00:23:57,990 --> 00:24:00,950
Well, it's, I jokingly tell people that, I'm

631
00:24:00,950 --> 00:24:02,630
not a physicist, but I play one on

632
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:03,130
TV.

633
00:24:04,309 --> 00:24:06,789
I I have, you know, knowledge of basic

634
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:09,130
concepts. I'm I'm I'm a curious person, and

635
00:24:09,714 --> 00:24:11,254
so I love technology.

636
00:24:11,875 --> 00:24:14,355
I love, you know, what's next, and I

637
00:24:14,355 --> 00:24:15,335
watch documentaries.

638
00:24:16,194 --> 00:24:17,654
I actually listen to

639
00:24:18,274 --> 00:24:18,774
Nicole's

640
00:24:19,075 --> 00:24:21,714
quantum steampunk presentation and and read her book,

641
00:24:21,714 --> 00:24:22,170
and

642
00:24:23,049 --> 00:24:23,630
and she

643
00:24:23,930 --> 00:24:25,769
she lays it out in a really great

644
00:24:25,769 --> 00:24:28,570
way layperson's way, you know, to make it

645
00:24:28,570 --> 00:24:29,070
understandable.

646
00:24:29,850 --> 00:24:31,930
So I I really when I'm,

647
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:33,789
embarking on these,

648
00:24:34,934 --> 00:24:37,494
creation of these art installations, I I need

649
00:24:37,494 --> 00:24:39,994
to do my due diligence and research and

650
00:24:40,615 --> 00:24:42,634
and just kinda get a broad understanding,

651
00:24:43,734 --> 00:24:44,315
on what,

652
00:24:44,694 --> 00:24:45,994
you know, what this is,

653
00:24:46,375 --> 00:24:48,154
so we can that can be represented

654
00:24:48,779 --> 00:24:50,400
in the, in the sculpture.

655
00:24:50,859 --> 00:24:53,019
And, really, it's it's this, you know, putting

656
00:24:53,019 --> 00:24:55,820
my head in the past, the present, and

657
00:24:55,820 --> 00:24:58,460
the future. That's kind of what we're trying

658
00:24:58,460 --> 00:25:01,180
to represent here to make a timeless type

659
00:25:01,180 --> 00:25:02,454
of sculpture,

660
00:25:03,075 --> 00:25:03,474
that,

661
00:25:04,035 --> 00:25:05,494
again, both educates

662
00:25:06,115 --> 00:25:06,934
and entertains.

663
00:25:08,515 --> 00:25:10,994
So, so that's kind of, you know, my

664
00:25:10,994 --> 00:25:13,154
approach with every project, you know, if it's

665
00:25:13,154 --> 00:25:15,894
quantum physics or or anything else that,

666
00:25:17,259 --> 00:25:19,599
has this combination of history, art, and terminology.

667
00:25:20,619 --> 00:25:22,960
And, Nicole, do do you have a background

668
00:25:23,259 --> 00:25:24,000
in art?

669
00:25:25,820 --> 00:25:28,184
I don't have a background in visual arts.

670
00:25:28,505 --> 00:25:31,545
I have a background in writing that I've

671
00:25:31,545 --> 00:25:32,845
gotten through, say,

672
00:25:33,225 --> 00:25:34,285
writing a

673
00:25:35,785 --> 00:25:38,505
community column for a local newspaper when I

674
00:25:38,505 --> 00:25:41,225
was in high school. I also blog for

675
00:25:41,225 --> 00:25:44,130
Quantum Frontiers, Caltech's Quantum Blog once a month.

676
00:25:45,089 --> 00:25:47,170
And I consider writing to be an art,

677
00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:47,910
but I

678
00:25:48,289 --> 00:25:49,269
did not have

679
00:25:50,210 --> 00:25:53,029
experience with visual art before working with Bruce.

680
00:25:53,329 --> 00:25:55,089
Oh, right. And and how did you find

681
00:25:55,089 --> 00:25:57,410
that as a as a as a a

682
00:25:57,410 --> 00:25:58,369
scientist? Were you

683
00:25:59,934 --> 00:26:02,515
did did did you have a problem with

684
00:26:02,735 --> 00:26:03,235
maybe

685
00:26:03,775 --> 00:26:05,235
being too lit literal,

686
00:26:05,615 --> 00:26:07,055
if you see what I mean, in terms

687
00:26:07,055 --> 00:26:09,634
of expressing ideas? Or

688
00:26:09,934 --> 00:26:12,515
or did did you slot right in immediately

689
00:26:12,575 --> 00:26:14,250
and sort of understand,

690
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:16,730
how Bruce was was working?

691
00:26:17,670 --> 00:26:20,170
I think we achieved a good balance of

692
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:23,049
sufficient representation

693
00:26:23,509 --> 00:26:24,250
of reality

694
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:25,450
and also

695
00:26:26,984 --> 00:26:29,005
aesthetics that extend beyond

696
00:26:29,705 --> 00:26:31,164
a mere accurate representation.

697
00:26:31,785 --> 00:26:33,545
We certainly went back and forth a great

698
00:26:33,545 --> 00:26:34,045
deal.

699
00:26:34,664 --> 00:26:36,424
I actually, this was a part of the

700
00:26:36,424 --> 00:26:37,565
process that,

701
00:26:38,505 --> 00:26:40,919
to me, was a little different from what

702
00:26:40,919 --> 00:26:42,460
I experienced in science.

703
00:26:43,159 --> 00:26:45,159
As a scientist, I go back and forth

704
00:26:45,159 --> 00:26:46,059
with my collaborators

705
00:26:47,319 --> 00:26:48,859
until everybody is satisfied.

706
00:26:49,639 --> 00:26:52,220
This might take days or weeks or months.

707
00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:54,839
And similarly, Bruce would go back and forth

708
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:56,535
with me a great deal

709
00:26:57,234 --> 00:26:58,535
until we were satisfied

710
00:26:58,994 --> 00:27:01,255
with the look of something and also

711
00:27:01,555 --> 00:27:03,255
the representation of science.

712
00:27:04,035 --> 00:27:04,535
However,

713
00:27:05,474 --> 00:27:05,974
Bruce

714
00:27:06,355 --> 00:27:07,894
hires people like

715
00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:09,710
an illustrator

716
00:27:10,089 --> 00:27:11,950
or a design engineering team,

717
00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:14,890
and their time is very much on the

718
00:27:14,890 --> 00:27:16,890
clock. So I could not go back and

719
00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:19,309
forth with them just ad infinitum.

720
00:27:19,849 --> 00:27:20,750
So that was

721
00:27:21,289 --> 00:27:21,789
the,

722
00:27:22,345 --> 00:27:23,404
I think, the main

723
00:27:23,784 --> 00:27:26,105
difference between my experience with art and my

724
00:27:26,105 --> 00:27:29,224
experience with science that surprised me. But I

725
00:27:29,224 --> 00:27:30,984
think that we did manage to come up

726
00:27:30,984 --> 00:27:32,444
with a really great balance.

727
00:27:33,304 --> 00:27:35,144
So so how did it compare to, you

728
00:27:35,144 --> 00:27:37,470
know, let's say you you you you've got

729
00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:38,450
a great idea

730
00:27:38,829 --> 00:27:41,390
for a paper and you're collaborating with some

731
00:27:41,390 --> 00:27:41,890
people

732
00:27:42,509 --> 00:27:42,910
and,

733
00:27:43,309 --> 00:27:46,349
you know, you're you're perfecting your craft, you're

734
00:27:46,349 --> 00:27:48,750
you're working very hard to get things right

735
00:27:48,750 --> 00:27:51,555
and to to make it understandable. Was it

736
00:27:51,634 --> 00:27:53,894
was it a a process that was comparable

737
00:27:54,115 --> 00:27:56,355
to that, or was it was it very

738
00:27:56,355 --> 00:27:56,855
different?

739
00:27:58,195 --> 00:28:00,515
I'd say probably there were fewer rounds of

740
00:28:00,515 --> 00:28:02,855
back and forth in the context of art

741
00:28:03,555 --> 00:28:06,115
because we were working with people whose time

742
00:28:06,115 --> 00:28:08,789
was very limited, and we had limited budgets.

743
00:28:08,929 --> 00:28:11,089
And those two resources need to match up

744
00:28:11,329 --> 00:28:12,869
needed to match up with each other.

745
00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:13,990
But,

746
00:28:14,609 --> 00:28:16,769
occasionally, there was a little wiggle room so

747
00:28:16,769 --> 00:28:18,929
we could get in a few extra tweaks

748
00:28:18,929 --> 00:28:19,605
here and there.

749
00:28:22,005 --> 00:28:24,085
Okay, Nicole. We're we're getting towards the end

750
00:28:24,085 --> 00:28:25,065
of our conversation,

751
00:28:25,365 --> 00:28:25,684
but,

752
00:28:26,164 --> 00:28:27,924
I I just have to ask you about

753
00:28:27,924 --> 00:28:29,144
a bit more physics,

754
00:28:29,684 --> 00:28:32,085
seeing as this is the Physics World Weekly

755
00:28:32,085 --> 00:28:32,585
podcast.

756
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:36,309
Can you can you talk a bit about

757
00:28:36,309 --> 00:28:39,109
the physics of quantum heat engines? What is

758
00:28:39,109 --> 00:28:41,430
a quantum heat engine, and why is it

759
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:42,970
important to study them?

760
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:46,809
Sure. I'll start with a basic heat engine.

761
00:28:47,615 --> 00:28:50,174
A heat engine is a device that takes

762
00:28:50,174 --> 00:28:51,715
any heat from a hot environment

763
00:28:52,174 --> 00:28:53,775
and expel some of that heat to a

764
00:28:53,775 --> 00:28:54,595
colder environment.

765
00:28:55,295 --> 00:28:57,795
The rest of the heats, the engine transforms

766
00:28:58,015 --> 00:28:59,075
into work.

767
00:28:59,455 --> 00:29:00,515
So more

768
00:29:01,619 --> 00:29:03,400
correlated or rather more

769
00:29:04,019 --> 00:29:06,980
organized energy that can be directly harnessed to

770
00:29:06,980 --> 00:29:10,180
do something like power a factory or charge

771
00:29:10,180 --> 00:29:10,759
a battery.

772
00:29:12,099 --> 00:29:15,059
A quantum heat engine is an object that

773
00:29:15,059 --> 00:29:17,944
essentially does the same thing. It takes in

774
00:29:18,325 --> 00:29:20,804
heat from a hot environment. It expels some

775
00:29:20,804 --> 00:29:22,345
of that heat to a cold environment,

776
00:29:22,884 --> 00:29:25,304
and the rest of the heat, it transforms

777
00:29:25,605 --> 00:29:26,105
into

778
00:29:26,964 --> 00:29:27,464
more

779
00:29:27,924 --> 00:29:29,065
organized work.

780
00:29:30,085 --> 00:29:32,720
An early question in quantum thermodynamics was, is

781
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,279
it even possible for a quantum system to

782
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:37,599
act like a heat engine? This was a

783
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,920
this is a foundational question and I think

784
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,539
a question of just basic curiosity.

785
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:43,220
But this

786
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,914
is the question that I alluded

787
00:29:47,835 --> 00:29:48,075
to that was addressed in the nineteen fifties

788
00:29:48,075 --> 00:29:49,055
and nineteen sixties.

789
00:29:49,595 --> 00:29:51,934
Folks argued that a single atom

790
00:29:52,315 --> 00:29:54,815
can function as a heat engine when it's

791
00:29:54,875 --> 00:29:56,414
working as a maser.

792
00:29:57,275 --> 00:29:59,980
A maser, as some listeners will know is

793
00:29:59,980 --> 00:30:02,000
the same thing as a laser, just emits

794
00:30:02,059 --> 00:30:04,299
microwave radiation. That's what they happen to be

795
00:30:04,299 --> 00:30:04,799
studying.

796
00:30:06,220 --> 00:30:08,559
Quantum heat engines now form

797
00:30:09,099 --> 00:30:09,920
a sandbox

798
00:30:10,460 --> 00:30:10,960
for

799
00:30:11,420 --> 00:30:13,680
exploring questions within quantum thermodynamics.

800
00:30:14,585 --> 00:30:17,224
Since lots of quantum heat engines have been

801
00:30:17,224 --> 00:30:19,865
designed and some have been realized experimentally, we

802
00:30:19,865 --> 00:30:22,765
can play with them to ask, for example,

803
00:30:23,384 --> 00:30:26,424
do quantum systems obey the same thermodynamic laws

804
00:30:26,424 --> 00:30:27,390
as classical ones?

805
00:30:28,190 --> 00:30:31,089
What is the right way mathematically to represent

806
00:30:31,150 --> 00:30:33,970
those laws of thermodynamics for quantum systems?

807
00:30:34,589 --> 00:30:38,589
And can quantum systems outperform classical counterparts in

808
00:30:38,589 --> 00:30:39,089
thermodynamic

809
00:30:39,470 --> 00:30:41,490
tasks? And exactly how

810
00:30:41,815 --> 00:30:45,015
and exactly what quantum resources do those engines

811
00:30:45,015 --> 00:30:45,515
need.

812
00:30:46,695 --> 00:30:48,855
I see. And so I'm I'm I'm just

813
00:30:48,855 --> 00:30:51,015
trying to come up with an example in

814
00:30:51,015 --> 00:30:52,615
my head. I mean, I I'm I don't

815
00:30:52,615 --> 00:30:53,515
know. Are you are

816
00:30:53,815 --> 00:30:55,335
you are you talking about a system? I

817
00:30:55,335 --> 00:30:56,634
don't know. That maybe

818
00:30:57,109 --> 00:30:57,609
comprises

819
00:30:57,910 --> 00:31:00,549
of lots of different spins that can interact

820
00:31:00,549 --> 00:31:01,450
with each other?

821
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:04,730
And, the the quantum heat engine can

822
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:07,750
sort of chug away and cause all those

823
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:10,570
spins to align in a ferromagnetic

824
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:11,529
way.

825
00:31:12,105 --> 00:31:13,785
And then, I don't know, maybe you could

826
00:31:13,785 --> 00:31:16,265
make a measurement of a magnetic field from

827
00:31:16,265 --> 00:31:17,085
that or

828
00:31:17,704 --> 00:31:19,065
I don't know. I'm I'm just trying to

829
00:31:19,065 --> 00:31:20,845
make sort sort of make it real.

830
00:31:21,785 --> 00:31:23,085
Yes. The recently

831
00:31:23,704 --> 00:31:25,404
people have begun

832
00:31:26,265 --> 00:31:26,765
designing

833
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,039
many body quantum engines, which is what you

834
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:31,539
described.

835
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:32,740
The

836
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,539
quantum engines that were analyzed

837
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,440
originally and early on, and the simplest quantum

838
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,734
engines consist of just a single particle each,

839
00:31:42,894 --> 00:31:43,394
like

840
00:31:43,695 --> 00:31:45,954
the the quantum engine identified

841
00:31:46,335 --> 00:31:49,394
in those papers from the 1950s and 1960s.

842
00:31:50,255 --> 00:31:53,134
Those quantum engines consisted of just one atom

843
00:31:53,134 --> 00:31:53,634
each.

844
00:31:54,654 --> 00:31:55,714
And our sculpture

845
00:31:56,339 --> 00:31:59,380
depicts a quantum engine formed from one trapped

846
00:31:59,380 --> 00:31:59,880
ion.

847
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:02,519
We're used to from

848
00:32:03,299 --> 00:32:05,480
undergraduate statistical physics classes

849
00:32:06,019 --> 00:32:08,119
thinking in many cases about

850
00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:11,079
engines that undergo four stroke cycles.

851
00:32:11,535 --> 00:32:13,934
For example, the CARTO cycle is a four

852
00:32:13,934 --> 00:32:14,674
stroke cycle.

853
00:32:15,215 --> 00:32:17,775
The auto cycle that operates in many cars

854
00:32:17,775 --> 00:32:19,154
is a four stroke cycle.

855
00:32:19,455 --> 00:32:20,355
But we can

856
00:32:21,695 --> 00:32:24,430
put together a four stroke cycle to which

857
00:32:24,430 --> 00:32:25,410
we can subject

858
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:27,650
an ion or an atom

859
00:32:28,269 --> 00:32:30,369
so that during two strokes,

860
00:32:32,590 --> 00:32:35,170
the atom or ion is interacting with

861
00:32:35,950 --> 00:32:37,964
an environment that might have a hot a

862
00:32:37,964 --> 00:32:40,144
high temperature or a low temperature.

863
00:32:40,684 --> 00:32:43,025
This bath might consist of radiation.

864
00:32:44,044 --> 00:32:45,664
During the other two strokes,

865
00:32:46,125 --> 00:32:47,664
we tune the Hamiltonian.

866
00:32:48,285 --> 00:32:50,444
So we, in the context of a trapped

867
00:32:50,444 --> 00:32:51,505
ion, could

868
00:32:51,980 --> 00:32:53,440
change the trapping potential.

869
00:32:54,140 --> 00:32:56,960
If we're tuning a parameter in a Hamiltonian,

870
00:32:57,580 --> 00:33:00,080
then we're tuning a control parameter.

871
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:01,200
And

872
00:33:01,820 --> 00:33:03,039
work is

873
00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:06,000
energy that is controlled. It is directed.

874
00:33:06,595 --> 00:33:09,875
So when we perform tuning strokes, we tend

875
00:33:09,875 --> 00:33:10,934
to have the engine

876
00:33:11,715 --> 00:33:12,615
perform work.

877
00:33:13,154 --> 00:33:13,654
Whereas

878
00:33:13,955 --> 00:33:14,855
during the

879
00:33:15,555 --> 00:33:16,055
thermalization

880
00:33:16,434 --> 00:33:16,934
strokes,

881
00:33:17,315 --> 00:33:19,875
the engine is taking in or spitting out

882
00:33:19,875 --> 00:33:20,099
heat.

883
00:33:21,140 --> 00:33:23,299
And that's what an engine does. So a

884
00:33:23,299 --> 00:33:24,119
heat engine,

885
00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:28,019
or at least a conventional heat engine undergoing

886
00:33:28,019 --> 00:33:30,819
a four stroke cycle, will interact with heat

887
00:33:30,819 --> 00:33:32,955
baths during two strokes and

888
00:33:33,815 --> 00:33:36,375
have some of one of its parameters tuned

889
00:33:36,375 --> 00:33:37,994
during the other two strokes

890
00:33:38,455 --> 00:33:40,955
during which the engine can perform work.

891
00:33:41,335 --> 00:33:41,835
So

892
00:33:42,375 --> 00:33:45,255
a quantum engine can undergo these strokes like

893
00:33:45,255 --> 00:33:46,634
a classical heat engine.

894
00:33:47,015 --> 00:33:49,309
Just which parameters we tune

895
00:33:49,690 --> 00:33:51,289
are different in the quantum case than in

896
00:33:51,289 --> 00:33:53,150
the classical case, and

897
00:33:53,769 --> 00:33:56,190
the physical nature of the heat baths

898
00:33:56,490 --> 00:33:58,890
might be different in the quantum and classical

899
00:33:58,890 --> 00:33:59,390
cases.

900
00:34:00,569 --> 00:34:01,230
I see.

901
00:34:01,529 --> 00:34:02,029
Okay.

902
00:34:02,914 --> 00:34:04,775
And and, Bruce, are you,

903
00:34:05,954 --> 00:34:08,835
are you hooked on quantum steampunk now? Are

904
00:34:08,835 --> 00:34:10,914
you are you going to be working with

905
00:34:10,914 --> 00:34:12,375
Nicole or or maybe,

906
00:34:12,994 --> 00:34:13,734
other physicists

907
00:34:14,594 --> 00:34:14,994
in,

908
00:34:15,554 --> 00:34:16,775
creating more art

909
00:34:17,269 --> 00:34:19,130
based on the, on the thermodynamics

910
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:20,889
of the quantum world?

911
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:24,489
Yes. So, so a couple of things.

912
00:34:26,789 --> 00:34:29,349
When we first were talking about creating a

913
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:31,130
steampunk quantum engine together,

914
00:34:31,905 --> 00:34:34,224
we were actually thinking bigger. We were thinking

915
00:34:34,224 --> 00:34:36,465
about a sculpture that could be eight foot

916
00:34:36,465 --> 00:34:36,965
route,

917
00:34:37,425 --> 00:34:39,905
you know, armillary sphere, something that you could

918
00:34:39,905 --> 00:34:41,905
literally walk into and, you know, be a

919
00:34:41,905 --> 00:34:42,644
part of.

920
00:34:43,025 --> 00:34:45,364
But, of course, the the size, the complexity,

921
00:34:45,505 --> 00:34:47,849
the scale, you know, we're we're talking about,

922
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:50,489
you know, larger amounts of funding.

923
00:34:51,670 --> 00:34:54,469
Nicole was able to to, get this wonderful

924
00:34:54,469 --> 00:34:55,349
$10,000

925
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:58,329
grant to build the sculpture that we did,

926
00:34:58,614 --> 00:35:00,855
but we still have in mind that we'd

927
00:35:00,855 --> 00:35:02,075
like to build something

928
00:35:02,535 --> 00:35:04,394
bigger, better, more interactive,

929
00:35:06,055 --> 00:35:07,195
more sci fi,

930
00:35:07,655 --> 00:35:09,735
you know, in a way. So,

931
00:35:10,055 --> 00:35:12,055
so we're still kind of out there. And

932
00:35:12,055 --> 00:35:12,954
if your listeners,

933
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:16,639
would like to, you know, touch base with

934
00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:17,139
us,

935
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,980
you can they can actually go to quantumsteampunk.org

936
00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:22,179
is the website

937
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,039
and contact Nicole or I in terms of,

938
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:27,380
you know, maybe helping us out with this

939
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:28,980
this bigger sculpture.

940
00:35:30,195 --> 00:35:32,454
But, the other thing too is because,

941
00:35:33,394 --> 00:35:35,655
Nicole is at the University of Maryland,

942
00:35:36,195 --> 00:35:37,255
they have a whole

943
00:35:37,715 --> 00:35:40,914
kind of quantum campus there, the Discovery District,

944
00:35:40,914 --> 00:35:42,775
and we're talking with folks there.

945
00:35:43,359 --> 00:35:45,679
We're part we're trying to get part of

946
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:47,139
of these quantum initiatives

947
00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:48,339
to do,

948
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:49,859
statement pieces,

949
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:51,539
quantum,

950
00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:52,980
art installations

951
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:54,739
for that campus.

952
00:35:55,425 --> 00:35:57,744
So we're we're excited that we're working together

953
00:35:57,744 --> 00:35:59,684
and that we have all these connections now,

954
00:35:59,985 --> 00:36:02,385
and we really see that this is starting

955
00:36:02,385 --> 00:36:04,465
to to take hold and that we we'll

956
00:36:04,465 --> 00:36:06,164
we'll be able to do more together.

957
00:36:07,105 --> 00:36:09,344
That's great. And and what about you, Nicole?

958
00:36:09,344 --> 00:36:09,585
Are you

959
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,819
has there been any sort of feedback from

960
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:15,900
from your work in art

961
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,699
back into physics? Is has

962
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:20,619
working with Bruce,

963
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,539
has that helped you consolidate

964
00:36:22,839 --> 00:36:24,539
ideas within your research?

965
00:36:25,974 --> 00:36:27,034
I find that

966
00:36:27,574 --> 00:36:30,695
engaging in art or writing helps me understand

967
00:36:30,695 --> 00:36:33,655
the physics better. Maybe it makes me read

968
00:36:33,655 --> 00:36:36,135
in details papers that I had just heard

969
00:36:36,135 --> 00:36:38,215
about. For example, what I have in mind,

970
00:36:38,215 --> 00:36:38,715
one

971
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,599
engine paper that I read in detail for

972
00:36:42,599 --> 00:36:43,739
the sake of

973
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:44,780
the sculpture.

974
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,619
An example of a project

975
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:50,059
that

976
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,579
benefited my research because of engagement with arts

977
00:36:54,014 --> 00:36:56,734
actually came out of my book, which is

978
00:36:56,734 --> 00:36:58,355
closely related to the sculpture.

979
00:36:58,894 --> 00:37:00,734
So when I was writing my book, I

980
00:37:00,734 --> 00:37:03,375
had to write about what comes next for

981
00:37:03,375 --> 00:37:05,315
quantum thermodynamics in the epilogue.

982
00:37:05,934 --> 00:37:07,775
And I thought it would be useful for

983
00:37:07,775 --> 00:37:08,674
quantum thermodynamics

984
00:37:09,135 --> 00:37:11,929
to start to be useful, to be practical,

985
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:14,010
kind of the way that thermodynamics

986
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:16,969
originally went hand in hand with the Industrial

987
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:17,530
Revolution.

988
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:21,130
So shortly after writing that epilogue,

989
00:37:22,309 --> 00:37:24,404
I came across an experimentalist

990
00:37:24,704 --> 00:37:25,764
who asked me

991
00:37:26,224 --> 00:37:28,144
what experiments would be interesting to do in

992
00:37:28,144 --> 00:37:29,045
quantum thermodynamics.

993
00:37:29,824 --> 00:37:32,164
I told him of my desire for practicality

994
00:37:32,304 --> 00:37:33,284
for quantum thermodynamics,

995
00:37:33,824 --> 00:37:36,144
and we came up with a project that

996
00:37:36,144 --> 00:37:37,984
led to a whole line of research on

997
00:37:37,984 --> 00:37:39,444
autonomous quantum machines.

998
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,159
So far, I don't have a whole line

999
00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:46,519
of research inspired by quantum stink buck artwork,

1000
00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:48,699
but I am definitely open to the possibility.

1001
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,480
Oh, that's great. That's great news. It sounds

1002
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,019
like it's been a very fruitful

1003
00:37:53,585 --> 00:37:56,304
collaboration so far, and and long may it

1004
00:37:56,304 --> 00:37:56,804
last.

1005
00:37:57,505 --> 00:37:58,565
Bruce and Nicole,

1006
00:37:58,864 --> 00:38:00,885
thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

1007
00:38:01,344 --> 00:38:02,944
Thank you for hosting us. It's been a

1008
00:38:02,944 --> 00:38:05,135
pleasure. Thanks. Yes. It was a pleasure.

1009
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,239
I'm afraid that's all the time we have

1010
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:15,460
for this week's podcast,

1011
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,460
which is supported generously

1012
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,460
by Atlas Technologies.

1013
00:38:20,414 --> 00:38:22,755
Thanks to Nicole Junger Halpern

1014
00:38:23,135 --> 00:38:24,515
and Bruce Rosenbaum

1015
00:38:25,055 --> 00:38:26,434
for joining me today,

1016
00:38:26,735 --> 00:38:29,295
and a special thanks to our producer, Fred

1017
00:38:29,295 --> 00:38:29,795
Ailes.

1018
00:38:30,414 --> 00:38:32,894
We'll be back again next week. See you

1019
00:38:32,894 --> 00:38:33,394
then.

1020
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:40,579
Atlas Technologies

1021
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,820
is happy to support this episode

1022
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:46,099
and the exciting work being done in quantum

1023
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:46,660
science.

1024
00:38:47,344 --> 00:38:49,684
Atlas helps solve engineering challenges

1025
00:38:49,984 --> 00:38:50,484
everywhere,

1026
00:38:51,025 --> 00:38:52,005
particle colliders,

1027
00:38:52,385 --> 00:38:53,284
space missions,

1028
00:38:53,585 --> 00:38:54,085
quantum

1029
00:38:54,385 --> 00:38:54,885
cryogenics,

1030
00:38:55,344 --> 00:38:56,164
and more.

1031
00:38:56,625 --> 00:39:00,565
Custom vacuum chambers and bimetal flanges and fittings

1032
00:39:00,989 --> 00:39:02,369
are built in Atlas's

1033
00:39:02,750 --> 00:39:04,449
fully integrated facility

1034
00:39:04,750 --> 00:39:07,170
with on-site design, development,

1035
00:39:07,469 --> 00:39:08,530
and manufacturing

1036
00:39:08,909 --> 00:39:09,409
capabilities.

1037
00:39:10,269 --> 00:39:14,369
Learn more at atlasuhv.com.