The Ugly Truth About Female Genital Mutilation

Shelly Johnson
00:00:01
This is Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Shelly Johnson
00:00:07
From the corporate office to the cab of a truck, they're here to inspire and empower women in all professions.
Shelly Johnson
00:00:14
So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
Kathy Tucaro
00:00:23
Welcome.
Kathy Tucaro
00:00:24
We're an award winning show d dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights.
Kathy Tucaro
00:00:32
No topics off limits on our show, we power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need.
Kathy Tucaro
00:00:41
I'm Shelly.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:00:42
And I'm Kathy.
Kathy Tucaro
00:00:44
Our show takes on some tough topics sometimes, but our mission is to educate, empower and create awareness to further the progress and fair treatment of women.
Kathy Tucaro
00:00:54
What we have today is a tough issue that needs to be discussed.
Kathy Tucaro
00:00:58
It may be a difficult one for some listeners, so we want to give fair warning.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:03
Did you know that 230 million girls and women across the United States and around the world have been forced into female genital mutilation?
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:12
Also called fgm.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:14
This is the practice of removing or cutting the labia and clitoris for non medical reasons.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:20
It's an extremely painful and emotionally damaging practice that leaves a woman without the ability to experience pleasure during intercourse.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:28
It's primarily done as a religious practice.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:31
Some cultures believe it's a way to preserve virginity, enhance male sexual pleasure, or improve female hygiene.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:38
It leaves terrible emotional and physical scars.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:42
It can cause infection, and the vagina and urethra can close over, leaving only a small opening leading to painful intercourse or an incision needed if a woman gives birth.
Kathy Tucaro
00:01:53
Who could imagine that this horrific practice is even going on, especially in North America in the 21st century?
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:02
Stop the Cut now is an organization on a mission to eradicate this terrible practice.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:07
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:07
Maria Viola Sanchez is the CEO and founder of this nonprofit.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:12
They're committed to creating awareness worldwide and achieving a unified voice to eliminate this terrible practice.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:19
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:19
Sanchez is also president elect of the Ventura County Psychological association, which was named 2024's chapter of the year by the California Psychological association, among many other positions.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:31
She's also on the board of trustees at Fielding Graduate university.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:35
We have Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:36
Maria Viola Sanchez with us today to educate us.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:39
Welcome, Maria.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:40
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Shelly Johnson
00:02:43
Shelley.
Shelly Johnson
00:02:44
What a marvelous introduction.
Shelly Johnson
00:02:46
My goodness.
Shelly Johnson
00:02:46
Thank you for encapsulating it so well.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:49
Well, thank you, Maria.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:50
Yeah, I want people to really stop, give pause and think.
Kathy Tucaro
00:02:55
Because when I first heard about this, I was shocked.
Shelly Johnson
00:02:59
Yes.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:01
And what's interesting about it, I was just in Washington, D.C.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:04
last week.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:05
I do a lot of as much activism as I can in the United States and people always say to me, first of all, when they hear about it, they're like, what?
Shelly Johnson
00:03:14
And then if we want, we can go into some of the details of.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:17
Of it, because there are four different types of procedures that fall under the umbrella of female genital mutilation, or FGM, as you said.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:28
And when I mentioned that there's 230 million, as you did in the introduction, in the world, they're like, what?
Shelly Johnson
00:03:36
And I said, yes, this is an epidemic.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:39
And then I said, and then, oh, by the way, there's over 500,000 women in the United States of America.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:45
And they're like, now it's like, yes, it does.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:48
And what's unfortunate is that not only is it not going away, the UNICEF released numbers and they.
Shelly Johnson
00:03:58
The number that we had been using since 2016 was 200 million, and they revised that to 230 million, as you just said.
Kathy Tucaro
00:04:08
God, that's just unbelievable.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:11
It is unbelievable.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:14
Yeah, it's shocking.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:16
It is shocking.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:17
And what's really the reason behind my foundation is that I have been aware of female genital mutilation.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:27
Actually, I had a program on NPR and a guest came on to talk about it.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:32
And this was in the late 90s, and that was the first I learned of it.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:37
So it's always been in the background of my mind.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:40
And UNICEF and the United nations and the World Health Organization, it's on their radar.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:47
And everyone says, oh, it's a terrible thing.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:49
And February 6th every year is the International Day of the Eradication of Female Genital Mutilation at the United Nations.
Shelly Johnson
00:04:59
I've attended it in person several times.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:01
This was pre Covid, and I actually went there on February 6, 2020, right before we got into trouble with the pandemic.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:09
There was less than 100 people in the room.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:12
And it's an international day.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:14
And I got so upset that all you do is talk about it.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:19
Then you give one day a year to say how terrible it is, and then you go on about your business.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:24
So that is what motivated me to found Stop the cut now.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:29
Because I kept saying I assumed that these deep pocketed international organizations would be doing something about it, and it appears that they're not.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:40
First of all, Maria, I just.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:42
Lip service.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:42
Oh, yeah.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:43
Unbelievable.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:44
You know, if this happened to men, it'd be an act of war.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:48
It would be.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:49
Yeah, it would.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:51
Oh, Maria, I want to commend you for founding this organization.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:54
I had not heard about that International Day in February either.
Kathy Tucaro
00:05:57
So there's not enough awareness?
Shelly Johnson
00:05:59
No, there's.
Shelly Johnson
00:05:59
And that's.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:00
And I'll tell you, quite honestly, Shelly and Kathy, a lot of the problem is authentic ignorance, because it's not a part of a conversation in general that we would have.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:13
But the other thing is, when we do have the conversation, which we're having now, it makes people uncomfortable.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:21
And when you're talking about cutting the genitals, they perform.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:27
The average age is from 6 months to 15 years old.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:31
That's the range in general.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:34
And people wince.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:35
And they, you know, they.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:37
I spoke to the 58 district of attorneys in the state of California two years ago.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:42
They wanted to know more about it because really, it's violence against women.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:46
It's domestic violence.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:48
It's, you know, gender, whatever you want to say, discrimination.
Shelly Johnson
00:06:52
And I'm in this room with seasoned law enforcement individuals, and my PowerPoint is animated, and so is the website, because it's so uncomfortable.
Shelly Johnson
00:07:06
I'm not showing anatomically correct pictures.
Shelly Johnson
00:07:10
And they were wincing, looking down, crossing their legs.
Shelly Johnson
00:07:14
You could see how uncomfortable they were.
Shelly Johnson
00:07:16
And these are people who try all kinds of heinous, atrocious crimes in the state of California.
Shelly Johnson
00:07:22
And that just showed me that it doesn't matter who's listening.
Shelly Johnson
00:07:26
If you have a heart, you care.
Kathy Tucaro
00:07:30
Yeah.
Kathy Tucaro
00:07:31
You know, this is a human rights violation.
Kathy Tucaro
00:07:33
There's no other way to describe it.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:07:36
100% correct.
Kathy Tucaro
00:07:38
And there's no place for it ever.
Kathy Tucaro
00:07:40
And in the 21st century, it's unbelievable.
Kathy Tucaro
00:07:44
And the fact that it's not being given the kind of priority that it should, it shows women and girls are not being given the priority that they deserve.
Kathy Tucaro
00:07:55
And I'm so, so thankful your organization is creating this awareness.
Kathy Tucaro
00:08:00
I wanted to talk briefly a bit about your background.
Kathy Tucaro
00:08:03
I see you're a psychologist.
Kathy Tucaro
00:08:05
You said you've been in the media.
Kathy Tucaro
00:08:06
Could you kind of talk about a little bit about that?
Kathy Tucaro
00:08:09
I mean, certainly you being in the media, you know how to harness that and get people's attention, which is so important.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:16
Yes.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:16
Thank you.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:17
So I have been a radio talk show host for almost 30 years, which will tell you how old I am.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:24
And I.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:25
My programs were lifestyle, health, parenting, relationships.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:31
It was very, very little political.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:33
And if it was political, I didn't care what side of the fence you were on, just as long as you were intelligent, articulate, respectful.
Shelly Johnson
00:08:42
And then when syndication came out and the budget started shrinking for local markets, including in Los Angeles, that's kind of when I went to other arenas and I decided to pursue my graduate education, because psychology, as much as other industries might, doesn't really have ageism built into it.
Shelly Johnson
00:09:08
People appreciate that you've lived and that you have some wisdom and that you might have some perspective.
Shelly Johnson
00:09:13
So I got my master's in clinical psychology, and then I got my master's in media psychology, and then I got my PhD in psychology with an emphasis on media psychology.
Shelly Johnson
00:09:24
And my dissertation was about the eradication of female genital mutilation.
Shelly Johnson
00:09:29
So it's been a long journey, but a rewarding one.
Shelly Johnson
00:09:34
And what my dissertation proved was it doesn't take a lot.
Shelly Johnson
00:09:39
It really just takes awareness and education.
Kathy Tucaro
00:09:43
It does, and it needs to be talked about.
Kathy Tucaro
00:09:46
And I want to commend you again.
Kathy Tucaro
00:09:48
Bravo, Maria.
Kathy Tucaro
00:09:49
We have to bring this out, out of the shadows.
Kathy Tucaro
00:09:52
People need to know, even if they get uncomfortable, and the fact they're getting uncomfortable, they got to know it's wrong.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:01
Well, studying it, so having it on my radar.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:05
And you read about it?
Shelly Johnson
00:10:07
Not often, because it's a secret and it goes underground.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:11
I was at the United nations for an event, and the woman who was part of the Health Ministry of Sierra Leone, which is in Africa, she was speaking.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:22
And I went specifically because I wanted to talk to her about female genital mutilation.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:28
That wasn't the topic of her conversation.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:30
She was trying to solicit funds for the Health Department in Sierra Leone.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:34
And I went up afterwards and I said to her, could you tell me about female genital mutilation in your country?
Shelly Johnson
00:10:40
And she acted as if I had slapped her across the face.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:44
She recoiled.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:46
She moved away from me.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:47
And her handlers surrounded me, men and said, what is it that you just asked her?
Shelly Johnson
00:10:53
And I repeated my sentence.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:54
And the man said to me, oh, we don't do that.
Shelly Johnson
00:10:57
And I said, that's not what the United nations does.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:00
You have a cut rate that's 85 to 91% cut rate, meaning how many of the girls are cut and their culture.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:07
And he said, oh, no, we don't do that.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:09
And I said, really?
Shelly Johnson
00:11:10
He goes, if a girl at the age of 18 asks for it to be performed, then we will accommodate her request.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:18
And so that's the disinformation that you get.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:22
So I contacted the United nations afterwards, and I said, I want to tell you this is a conversation that I had at the event that you just hosted.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:29
And they said, oh, yeah, they lie all the time.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:33
No one wants to admit it, you.
Kathy Tucaro
00:11:35
Know, and denial is deadly.
Shelly Johnson
00:11:37
Right?
Kathy Tucaro
00:11:38
And that's what they're doing.
Kathy Tucaro
00:11:39
They would rather put it under the rug.
Kathy Tucaro
00:11:41
And how is this any different than domestic abuse, which they've done the same kind of thing for Years and years and years too.
Kathy Tucaro
00:11:48
I can't even imagine taking a six month old infant and doing this to the child.
Kathy Tucaro
00:11:55
I mean, how is that not child abuse?
Shelly Johnson
00:11:59
Well, and the worst of it is it's done in unsanitary conditions.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:04
It's usually done in the bush on dirt.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:06
It is done with items that are not sanitized like scissors and razor blades and shards of glass.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:15
It is barbaric beyond.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:17
And there's no anesthesia.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:18
Of course, the younger they are, the less they remember, the older.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:22
I've spoken with survivors that had it done on them when they were 7, 8, 12, they pass out from the pain, so they don't remember the exact whole part of it.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:34
But then the worst of it is it's the women that perpetuate it on the girls.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:40
So one survivor I spoke with, her mother was a part of the four people.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:44
They hold them down each limb and spread their legs.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:48
Sometimes someone has to sit on the child's chest.
Shelly Johnson
00:12:51
And she said, I looked over at my mother and I thought, aren't you the one that's supposed to protect me?
Shelly Johnson
00:12:58
Aren't you the one that's supposed to keep me out of harm's way?
Shelly Johnson
00:13:02
And she passed out.
Shelly Johnson
00:13:04
She came to.
Shelly Johnson
00:13:06
So the most severe form of it is type 3.
Shelly Johnson
00:13:09
After they cut, they bind their ankles and their thighs together so that they can scarce with the healing, which closes up, as you mentioned, not only the vagina, but the urethra.
Shelly Johnson
00:13:23
They leave an opening the size of the head of a Q tip from which they're supposed to urinate and menstruate.
Shelly Johnson
00:13:31
And they also limit their liquids because they don't want them urinating because it hurts, because there's flesh wounds there.
Shelly Johnson
00:13:36
And the mom brought her some soup and put a spoon in her mouth and she spit it right back at her mother and said, how dare you?
Kathy Tucaro
00:13:46
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:13:46
And their relationship was severed from that point forward.
Kathy Tucaro
00:13:50
That's so unbelievable.
Kathy Tucaro
00:13:53
You know, it's interesting, I knew that it was a few years back in Michigan.
Kathy Tucaro
00:13:58
There was a judge, there was a judge who basically overturned a federal ban on female genital mutilation based on the premise that it was states rights, it could not be a federal ban.
Kathy Tucaro
00:14:13
But what had brought this to his courtroom was a case in Michigan, some doctors that were doing this and I guess there were a couple of mothers who had tricked their seven year olds into thinking that they were going to Detroit for a girls trip and instead they had their genitals cut.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:14:29
Oh my God.
Kathy Tucaro
00:14:31
And I remember when I first heard this, I'm like this is going on in Michigan.
Shelly Johnson
00:14:37
Yes.
Shelly Johnson
00:14:40
So federal legislation got passed in 1996 and then your judge is the one that reversed it.
Shelly Johnson
00:14:48
And we in the community were then panicking because now there was no federal ban in the United States of America.
Shelly Johnson
00:14:56
And fortunately, a lot of the activists got together and created legislation and it actually got signed by President Trump on January 1st 5th, the day before the insurrection.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:09
So it didn't get any press that the federal law was back in place because of what happened at our Capitol the next day.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:18
But there are still nine states and the District of Columbia that do not have legislation outlying female genital mutilation.
Kathy Tucaro
00:15:30
You know, I think part of that would you say is because people don't know this goes on.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:36
Probably because that's the lack of awareness.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:39
The state of Washington didn't have legislation and people were bringing their daughters to the state of Washington to have it performed there.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:48
And that's also illegal.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:50
You're not supposed to bring a child across state lines to do that kind of thing.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:53
But because there wasn't a law in the state of Washington, they were getting away with it.
Shelly Johnson
00:15:58
So I worked with a coalition.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:00
I testified four times to their assembly and Senate and their governor signed it into law in April of 2023, moving it from 10 to nine.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:10
So when they got wind of it, they did something about it.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:14
Now, I've testified to the District of Columbia twice.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:17
They are still nowhere near passing legislation and they know about it.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:21
They've been talking about it.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:22
They pulled people into the room to testify.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:26
So I don't know what their problem is, why they're dragging their feet.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:30
There was in Kentucky, I know you mentioned in your introduction that it's primarily cultural, which is true, but there are right wing Christian segments that perform it too in the United States.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:46
And this woman in her 30s in Kentucky went to her legislator and said, I need you to know that this was done to me, this is happening in our state.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:55
And they rallied round and they created legislation and it passed.
Shelly Johnson
00:16:59
And they call it Jenny's Law because the woman who came forward, that's her name.
Shelly Johnson
00:17:03
So there has been progress, but for nine states and the District of Columbia to still not have it illegal is somewhat unconscionable and also unbelievable.
Shelly Johnson
00:17:19
Stay tuned for more of women Road warriors coming up.
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00:17:26
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Kathy Tucaro
00:17:57
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Shelly Johnson
00:18:27
Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Taccaro.
Kathy Tucaro
00:18:35
If you're enjoying this informative episode of Women Road Warriors, I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success.
Kathy Tucaro
00:18:44
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00:18:50
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00:18:56
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00:19:05
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00:19:08
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Kathy Tucaro
00:19:17
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Kathy Tucaro
00:19:20
Did you know that There are over 500,000 cases of genital mutilations of women and girls in the United States and 230 million around the world.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:30
It's shocking.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:31
This is happening in the 21st century.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:34
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:34
Maria Viola Sanchez is on a mission to stop this horrendous practice.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:39
She's the founder of Stop the Cut now to rally support and get people around the world to eradicate this terrible practice that's often motivated by religious and cultural traditions.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:50
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:50
Sanchez says a lot of the problem is authentic ignorance because it's not a part of the conversation that we would have.
Kathy Tucaro
00:19:57
When we do have the conversation, it makes people uncomfortable to get all of this to change.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:03
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:04
Sanchez says it takes awareness and education.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:07
The problem is genital mutilation is a dirty secret that goes underground where it can't be discussed.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:13
No one wants to admit to the practice and they lie about it even happening.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:18
There are still nine states in the District of Columbia in the United States that do not have laws banning female genital mutilation.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:26
Think about that for a second.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:28
It's just horrific.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:31
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:31
Sanchez's information and her mission are so important for everyone to know and to get involved.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:38
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:38
Sanchez, what is the reason this is done?
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:41
I know that religion, certain religions do not believe that women should experience sexual pleasure.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:49
Correct.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:49
And they want them to maintain their virginity.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:52
Obviously this is going to discourage anybody wanting to have sexual intercourse.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:56
Correct.
Kathy Tucaro
00:20:57
It would be a very painful experience.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:00
Correct.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:00
It is so the primary reason some people say religion, but nowhere does it say that in any religious.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:09
It's not in the Bible, it's not in the Quran.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:12
There are imams that think that it's religious.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:16
But then there's an Iman in the United States who came from Sudan who has said no.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:23
Muhammad said do no harm.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:24
No.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:25
Abraham said do not harm.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:27
So they're evolved.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:29
A lot of it honestly is just habit.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:33
And I'm going to be a really vulnerable statement that I'm making here.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:39
I ignorantly circumcised my sons when they were born because my dad was.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:46
My brothers were.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:48
My husband, their father was.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:50
I didn't even think anything about it.
Shelly Johnson
00:21:53
And if that's what I did as a Western woman who's educated and intelligent, that's one of the reasons it's still prevalent.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:02
This is what we do.
Kathy Tucaro
00:22:04
Sure.
Kathy Tucaro
00:22:05
Well, I think with circumcision and we're told that that prevents infection and it's more hygienic.
Kathy Tucaro
00:22:12
But there are.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:13
That is not true.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:14
But yes, that's what we're told.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:15
Is it really though?
Shelly Johnson
00:22:17
It's not true.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:18
The foreskin serves a lot of purposes and I have apologized to my sons and I even was published John Hopkins Press, they did a story on regrets of male circumcision.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:31
So some people compare the two and there is no comparison because mine was done in a hospital with a local anesthetic by a physician, you know, whereas this is not.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:43
But to your point about the case in Michigan, there were physicians that were.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:49
They.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:49
It's called medicalized that they were doing it the way we would perform surgery on any other part of our bodies.
Kathy Tucaro
00:22:58
Right.
Shelly Johnson
00:22:59
I'm just looking online.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:23:00
I see because being Canadian to see what's what it is here.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:23:05
And I'm just reading that the government of Canada condemns FGM and other harmful practices that threaten the well being of women and girls and violate their human rights.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:23:16
In 1997, Canada's Criminal Code was amended to clarify that FGM is a form of aggravated assault and that removing a child from Canada, for the purposes of mgm, is a criminal offense.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:23:27
So that's kind of good to know.
Shelly Johnson
00:23:29
You have a very great activist group in your country, and there's a woman, she's done a documentary on it.
Shelly Johnson
00:23:39
It's called something like, Not My Daughter and Giselle Poitney, I believe her name is.
Shelly Johnson
00:23:45
And she.
Shelly Johnson
00:23:45
She.
Shelly Johnson
00:23:46
I've interviewed her and I've seen her documentary twice.
Shelly Johnson
00:23:49
And you should be really proud, because Canada is very progressive in that regard, and so is the state of California.
Shelly Johnson
00:23:56
I mean, we passed our law in the state in 1996 after the feds did theirs, and it was enacted in 1997.
Shelly Johnson
00:24:04
And I introduced legislation in the state of California because it's not good enough.
Shelly Johnson
00:24:09
It's old.
Shelly Johnson
00:24:10
There's loopholes.
Shelly Johnson
00:24:11
There was a public health reporting that was never done.
Shelly Johnson
00:24:14
And my bill passed through the Appropriations Committee unanimously and is now stuck in the Senate Appropriations Committee because there's a cost to it, because we're making the penalties stronger.
Shelly Johnson
00:24:29
And they're saying incarceration then costs the state more to keep somebody there longer.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:34
And in the meantime, we're costing people's lives.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:38
I mean, emotionally, it's got to devastate.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:42
Physically, I mean, I can't even imagine.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:45
And the fact that this is being done to girls.
Shelly Johnson
00:24:48
Yes.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:49
I mean.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:49
And they don't have the understanding.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:51
I mean, I don't have the understanding as an adult woman, why on earth any of this would be allowed.
Kathy Tucaro
00:24:57
Why it's considered acceptable by certain groups of people.
Kathy Tucaro
00:25:00
To me, it looks like male domination.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:03
There is a lot of that, Shelley.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:04
It is patriarchal.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:06
It is also, as you mentioned, a way to ensure that a girl is a virgin.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:12
And countries that value that the dowry for their daughter is higher if the girl is cut.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:21
And then the sad part is, is that if and when they do have intercourse, after they get married, they usually rupture and hemorrhage and have to go to the hospital because the penis isn't meant to fit into an opening that small.
Kathy Tucaro
00:25:35
No.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:25:36
The pain.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:37
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:38
And then the worst is that then the women don't want to have intercourse because it's painful.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:44
Oh, sure.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:44
So a husband ends up having a wife who doesn't want to engage.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:49
It's a.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:50
It's a lose, lose, lose for everybody.
Kathy Tucaro
00:25:53
No one would want to have painful intercourse.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:56
No.
Shelly Johnson
00:25:56
Thus, you know, out of duty and obligation, they acquiesce.
Shelly Johnson
00:26:00
Um, but there are men who are against fgm, too, and they say, we want a woman who gets pleasure out of making love.
Shelly Johnson
00:26:09
That's the whole point.
Shelly Johnson
00:26:11
And it's like, yeah, so if, yeah, if you're in pain that you know, then what's the value in it?
Shelly Johnson
00:26:16
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:26:17
So the good news is there are men getting involved because some men just accepted that this is a rite of passage and the tradition.
Shelly Johnson
00:26:26
And then when they're also education and awareness made aware that this is really barbaric and it doesn't benefit anybody, they're like, yeah, why would we do that?
Shelly Johnson
00:26:36
Why would I allow my daughter to be sedentary?
Shelly Johnson
00:26:39
That.
Shelly Johnson
00:26:39
So there is movement in that regard, but the numbers.
Shelly Johnson
00:26:43
Not in terms of the numbers.
Kathy Tucaro
00:26:44
Sure.
Kathy Tucaro
00:26:45
Well, that's where awareness and what your organization is doing is so essential because it's reeducating people and it's bringing it out into the sunlight, which is where it needs to be.
Kathy Tucaro
00:26:55
You were talking about four types of fgm.
Kathy Tucaro
00:26:58
I'm reading some of the details on that.
Kathy Tucaro
00:27:00
It's absolutely disgusting.
Kathy Tucaro
00:27:02
Feel free to go into some of the gory details so people can really, really step back and say, yeah, no.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:08
Sugar coating, because this is real.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:10
Right.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:10
So that was part of my legislation too, was that California's definition of female genital mutilation should align with the World Health Organization's definition, which they created in 1995 and then they fine tuned it again in 2007.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:27
But part one is the partial or total removal of the clitoris.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:33
Part two is the removal of that, the clitoris and then the labia minora.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:39
And then part three is the one that's the most egregious.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:43
So that's the narrowing of the vaginal orifice.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:47
And then they bring together the cut skin from the labia minora and the labia majora.
Shelly Johnson
00:27:53
And then that cut edge, they're stitched together and that's referred to as infibulation.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:01
And then type 4 is any kind of procedure to the genitals.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:04
And that's pricking, piercing, scraping, cauterizing, nicking.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:10
And so some people are saying, well, type 4 isn't as bad as the others.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:14
So how about if we just do type 4?
Shelly Johnson
00:28:16
That conversation exists too.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:19
And it's like, no, that is also mutilation.
Kathy Tucaro
00:28:23
You know what I would say to somebody like that?
Kathy Tucaro
00:28:25
Okay, you want to be the first one to stand up and volunteer for that?
Shelly Johnson
00:28:28
Yeah, you know, you go first.
Kathy Tucaro
00:28:32
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:34
So there are organizations and that's the other thing that my foundation does, is so I'm involved not only with a network in the United States formally, but, but I have global, we call ourselves intactivists throughout the world where they're trying to make their mark globally, too.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:52
So the United States, I mentioned, there's over half a million girls that have been cut.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:56
That's true.
Shelly Johnson
00:28:57
In the United Kingdom and the European Union, they each have about 500,000.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:03
Kerr.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:04
So I'm in touch with Paris and Dublin and London that they're trying to do that eradication on their level.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:14
So that's the good news is we're collaborative.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:17
Like, I don't have any problem if somebody's.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:19
I have a friend, her organization works in Kenya.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:23
I sit on the advisory board of a woman whose organization works in Liberia.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:28
Like, you know, the more the merrier.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:30
If we can move the needle at all.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:32
Let's do it.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:33
Let's work on this.
Kathy Tucaro
00:29:34
Yep.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:35
So, like the organization in Liberia, she actually is in the United States.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:41
But what she does is she sponsors girls.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:45
She gives them tuition, uniforms, books, school supplies, menstrual pads, and has their family signed a legally binding document that they will not cut their daughter.
Shelly Johnson
00:29:59
They have to go to a physician once a year to prove that they haven't been cut.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:05
And these girls actually get to go through high school and they get to go on to college because FGM also holds girl back socioeconomically.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:16
So, unfortunately, she only gives 20 scholarships a year because that's all her organization can afford.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:22
And it's like $20 a year to do that.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:27
She ships menstrual pads, because that's another thing that if they don't have menstrual pads, they stay at home for five to seven days while they're menstruating.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:35
So it gives them the opportunity to go to school.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:38
And so what I try and do is support her work as much as possible, because she already has the boots on the ground in Liberia.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:45
She already has their trust and their confidence.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:48
She already has the documents, the physicians, et cetera.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:51
I just want her to be more successful.
Kathy Tucaro
00:30:54
Bravo to that.
Kathy Tucaro
00:30:55
And it takes a village to make these changes.
Shelly Johnson
00:30:59
It actually does.
Kathy Tucaro
00:31:00
It really does.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:01
It really does.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:03
And that's why I would like to get the ear of an Oprah Winfrey, for example, who has a lot of a footprint in Africa, because they say that the largest population of FGM girls is in Africa.
Kathy Tucaro
00:31:20
I was reading that.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:22
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:22
So it's.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:23
But it doesn't.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:24
It's not exclusively so, but it's.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:27
You know, if we could move the needle in Africa, we would be making a big difference in the world.
Kathy Tucaro
00:31:31
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:32
So, like, for example, Somalia, they cut 98% of their girls.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:39
Egypt cuts 91% of their girls.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:43
So I was in Dubai in The uae.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:47
And I was working with some cultural folks there, and I talked about female genital mutilation, and they said, we don't do that here.
Shelly Johnson
00:31:56
And it's like, that's not true.
Kathy Tucaro
00:31:58
What's the percentage in Dubai?
Shelly Johnson
00:32:01
So I don't have that number by a city, but it's high.
Kathy Tucaro
00:32:07
And they're considered one of the more progressive areas of the Middle East, I think.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:13
No, they still subjugate their women to, you know, they just let them start to drive.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:17
Recently, they having been there, you know, you cover up from head to toe, even foreigners, you have to cover your knees and your shoulders and.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:30
Yeah, no, I have a real problem with the uae.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:32
I'll never go back.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:33
I was asked to speak there again.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:35
Like, I just can't.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:36
I cannot justify how you treat women and girls.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:41
And I know that they have a lot of money and, you know, but it.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:46
They do terrible things.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:47
So I just.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:48
I'm like, no, I.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:49
I've been there once.
Shelly Johnson
00:32:50
That's good enough.
Kathy Tucaro
00:32:51
Yeah, I don't blame you.
Kathy Tucaro
00:32:52
I think that the public perspective is that Dubai is more progressive, but unless you've actually been there, you don't know.
Kathy Tucaro
00:32:59
Yeah, they don't.
Kathy Tucaro
00:33:00
It's amazing how people kind of hide some of that, you know, just bury it.
Shelly Johnson
00:33:05
Well, there's actually a documentary, Shelley, about Dubai when they were hosting the World cup for soccer for FIFA, and they basically incarcerated their workers for six, seven, eight years to build the stadium that it was going to be hosted in.
Shelly Johnson
00:33:24
And they interview.
Shelly Johnson
00:33:25
The documentary shows that they pay them very hardly livable wages.
Shelly Johnson
00:33:30
They stock them away in dormitories without air conditioning and 122 degrees, et cetera.
Shelly Johnson
00:33:36
And then two days before the tournament was to begin, they reneged on their beverage contract, and I believe it was Budweiser beer.
Shelly Johnson
00:33:46
They said, no, you will not be able to serve that because they have no alcohol in their country.
Kathy Tucaro
00:33:52
Right.
Shelly Johnson
00:33:54
And so I can't help but think all along they knew they were going to do that, but they just lured everybody with their, you know, we're being progressive and this is a worldwide event, and it's not just for our.
Shelly Johnson
00:34:05
Our culture and our population.
Shelly Johnson
00:34:07
So I don't trust them.
Kathy Tucaro
00:34:09
I don't blame you.
Shelly Johnson
00:34:10
That's the long and the short of it.
Kathy Tucaro
00:34:13
Sure.
Kathy Tucaro
00:34:14
Maria, what your organization is doing is so essential, and the fact that you're on our show so we can let our listeners know is really important.
Kathy Tucaro
00:34:24
I am sure that there's some people who are listening right now who want to know what they can do to help what can people do to help your organization?
Kathy Tucaro
00:34:32
Because more.
Kathy Tucaro
00:34:33
More people need to be made aware, more people need to be involved.
Shelly Johnson
00:34:36
So thank you, Shelley, for that and Kathy, too, for the opportunity.
Shelly Johnson
00:34:40
I'm afraid to say that it all boils down to donations, really, because there's only so much that we can do without that.
Shelly Johnson
00:34:50
But the good news is it's not that complicated.
Shelly Johnson
00:34:54
So education and awareness cost just in terms of producing the materials and sometimes having the language changed, depending on the population, because like the communities.
Shelly Johnson
00:35:05
So California leads the country in the number of putt girls.
Shelly Johnson
00:35:10
So out of the 500,000 in the United States, they say 513,000, almost 80,000 of them live in the state of California.
Shelly Johnson
00:35:19
That's an inordinate amount of the population of the country.
Kathy Tucaro
00:35:24
It sure is.
Shelly Johnson
00:35:24
And so for me to get the message to the various communities that are affected by it, that requires getting into their communities, getting their confidence, having them feel safe that they can share, getting the materials and their language of origin.
Shelly Johnson
00:35:40
And again, that's where the costs come in.
Shelly Johnson
00:35:44
But the good news is that once people are exposed and understand that this isn't what we need to be doing, there is a population that is agreeing to change their culture, their traditions, and their way of life.
Shelly Johnson
00:36:02
The other thing is that the medical school curriculum doesn't include female genital mutilation in it.
Shelly Johnson
00:36:09
So that when pediatricians and OBGYN see it in their practice, they are shocked because they don't know what they're looking at.
Shelly Johnson
00:36:18
That boils down to public health.
Kathy Tucaro
00:36:20
Yes, it does.
Shelly Johnson
00:36:22
And again, that costs money.
Shelly Johnson
00:36:24
It's just to get the message out.
Kathy Tucaro
00:36:26
It's always about money.
Kathy Tucaro
00:36:27
The money makes the world go round.
Shelly Johnson
00:36:29
Yeah.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:36:30
I just wanted to say thank you so much for just your.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:36:34
Your dedication and your commitment to getting this.
Shelly Johnson
00:36:38
This word out there.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:36:39
And the education is everything.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:36:43
I personally am partially involved in the whole menstruation beyond, beyond menstruation that's going on in India where the women have to be in huts and when they have their period every month and they're banned and they're considered dirty and filthy.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:36:59
And so I, I think between yourself and myself and anybody who's vocal about these issues, it's the only way to get the public to react is by being vocal and participating in.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:14
In things that make them uncomfortable.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:16
Right.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:16
Because, I mean, you got to step outside their comfort zone if you want to be real and honest about what.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:21
What's really going on and not hiding behind that.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:24
That white picket fence said, oh, all is rosy, you know, and, and not listen to, to the people that say, no, it's not happening in our country.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:33
Yes, it is happening, and you need to open your eyes and do something about it.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:37
So I just wanted to, I just want to commend you again.
Dr. Maria Viola Sanchez
00:37:39
Thank you so much.
Kathy Tucaro
00:37:40
Yes, thank you, Marilla.
Shelly Johnson
00:37:41
Thank you for that.
Shelly Johnson
00:37:43
Because I think it's actually women that will probably be the biggest game changer in that When I founded Stop the Cut now, the second title is Eradicating Female Genital Mutilation.
Shelly Johnson
00:37:55
So people know exactly what we're talking about.
Shelly Johnson
00:37:58
It's not about, you know, self harm, self cutting, that, those other psychological issues.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:04
My husband's on the board also, and he's an avid golfer.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:08
And they'll say things, you know, what do you do?
Shelly Johnson
00:38:11
Or whatever.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:12
And he'll bring it up.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:13
And they're like, now he golfed with a physician from Texas.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:17
And the guy was like, no.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:19
And he was like, oh, yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:20
So the, I love it that it's coming from a man, too.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:24
But the title of the foundation apparently is good enough because sometimes they'll go to stopthecutnow.org and they'll contact me and said, I played golf with your husband this week and he told me about the work that you're doing and I would like to donate.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:40
And it's like, oh, my gosh, how you know.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:42
And again, it's $100 here or $200 there.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:45
It doesn't matter.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:46
It all adds up.
Shelly Johnson
00:38:48
It's just, especially for men, I think is because they'll say, I have a wife, I have daughters, you know what?
Shelly Johnson
00:38:56
And it's like, yeah, what?
Kathy Tucaro
00:38:58
Yeah, they're shocked and incredulous, but it's information they need to know.
Kathy Tucaro
00:39:03
Everybody needs to know it or it's never going to change.
Kathy Tucaro
00:39:06
I commend you for what you're doing.
Shelly Johnson
00:39:12
Stay tuned for more of women Road warriors coming up.
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00:39:19
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Kathy Tucaro
00:39:50
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Kathy Tucaro
00:40:02
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Kathy Tucaro
00:40:04
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Kathy Tucaro
00:40:07
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Kathy Tucaro
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Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.
Shelly Johnson
00:40:20
Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Kathy Tucaro
00:40:29
In certain parts of the world, virginity is a requirement for women before marriage.
Kathy Tucaro
00:40:34
The dowry for a daughter is greater if her labia and clitoris have been removed.
Kathy Tucaro
00:40:40
This is just one of the reasons that many girls as young as infants and teens are subjected to genital mutilation.
Kathy Tucaro
00:40:47
Their labia minora and clitoris are cut for non medical reasons, leaving them permanently scarred.
Kathy Tucaro
00:40:53
In one particular procedure, there's only an opening about the size of a Q tip that's left to allow girls and women to urinate and menstruate.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:01
Once these women have intercourse after their marriage, they typically rupture and hemorrhage and they have to go to the hospital.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:08
Stop the Cut now is a Nonprofit founded by Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:11
Maria Viola Sanchez that's working internationally to stop this terrible abuse of women and girls, which, shockingly, is not talked about.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:20
It's denied and quietly continues even in the United States, where at least 500,000 women and girls are mutilated every year.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:29
Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:30
Sanchez's organization is working to change laws and educate people around the world.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:34
She talks about the obstacles and what we all need to know to issue a rallying cry to stop this barbaric practice once and for all.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:42
The good news is awareness and education are making a change, even though it's at a snail's pace.
Kathy Tucaro
00:41:48
Maria, you're really making a difference by opening people's eyes to the ugly truth of this terrible practice.
Shelly Johnson
00:41:55
We do on our website try to be as educational as we can.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:00
You've got no nonsense, candid information and you list all the current stats of what's happening around the world, including the United States, and what states.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:09
It is really powerful.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:11
It's moving the needle.
Shelly Johnson
00:42:12
That's what's important, you know, bit by bit by bit.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:17
Yep.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:17
Every little bit of information makes the difference.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:20
It gains the awareness and it makes the change.
Shelly Johnson
00:42:23
And Shelli, you're part of the bit by bit just by us having this conversation and for your listeners.
Shelly Johnson
00:42:31
I mean, as I said, if you know you need something to be done, sometimes you have to do it yourself.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:38
Yes, that's very true.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:39
Well, Maria, I'm so glad to be able to help.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:42
Because this awareness, bringing things out, like I said, into the sunshine is the only way it's going to change.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:49
This is marginalization.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:50
It's abuse.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:51
It is nothing but a human rights violation.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:54
It should not exist.
Kathy Tucaro
00:42:56
And the more people that hear about it get out of the denial phase.
Kathy Tucaro
00:43:01
You know, it's not a pleasant topic.
Kathy Tucaro
00:43:03
It's creepy.
Kathy Tucaro
00:43:04
You know, it makes people uncomfortable, but they need to be and they need to realize if they feel uncomfortable just hearing about it, it's wrong and something needs to be done.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:14
You know, just to let your listeners know.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:17
There's a country called the Gambia and they had legislation that outlawed female genital mutilation.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:24
Their national assembly decided that maybe they would reverse that and they would allow cutting.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:31
And we, my international activists, we circulated a petition, we got over 150 signatures of big time upper ups in the world.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:40
But they were deciding whether or not to make it legal, which they would have been the first country to do.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:46
So three quarters of their girls are cut and they voted and they voted to keep the ban.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:53
But 34 of them voted to keep the ban and 19 voted to overturn it.
Shelly Johnson
00:43:58
So you know, 19 people said that they wanted female genital mutilation to be legal in their country.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:05
Now see, that's devaluing women too and marginalization.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:10
And it does feel like we take two steps forward and 10 steps back.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:15
But that's where perseverance needs to take place.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:18
People can't give up.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:19
They have to have a voice.
Shelly Johnson
00:44:21
42 of them voted to overturn the ban.
Shelly Johnson
00:44:24
They got more information.
Shelly Johnson
00:44:26
They, to their credit, they had a period where they welcomed people to talk.
Shelly Johnson
00:44:29
That's why we did our petition and et cetera.
Shelly Johnson
00:44:32
And of those 42 overturning it, only 19 stayed to overturn it.
Shelly Johnson
00:44:38
But it was close, it was scary.
Shelly Johnson
00:44:39
We were all worried throughout the world.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:42
And that happened just last year.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:44
That's super scary.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:46
Wow, Maria, you're creating awareness.
Kathy Tucaro
00:44:49
You're creating a unified voice which, which is so necessary and this awareness is making the difference to stop these laws, to educate the lawmakers, which is so necessary.
Kathy Tucaro
00:45:02
And I know that that's part of the mission of your organization.
Kathy Tucaro
00:45:05
Where do people find you?
Kathy Tucaro
00:45:07
How do they reach out?
Kathy Tucaro
00:45:07
Can they reach out to you?
Shelly Johnson
00:45:09
Absolutely.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:10
So stopthecutnow.org is the website.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:13
There is the information, you know, brief education.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:18
There is a donate button on every page and my contact information is with, at the very bottom of the website.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:25
Not only my personal cell phone, but my email.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:28
So it's stopthecutnow.org we are, by the way, 501C3.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:34
And the IRS has given us tax exempt status, so we're as legit as they come.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:43
And that wasn't easy to get either.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:45
Oh, it never is.
Kathy Tucaro
00:45:47
Excellent.
Kathy Tucaro
00:45:48
What do you have the greatest need right now?
Shelly Johnson
00:45:51
I would like to see the nine states and the District of Columbia pass legislation.
Shelly Johnson
00:45:56
And I'd like to see Assembly Bill 798 in California, which is the one that I sponsored, get passed.
Shelly Johnson
00:46:02
And then when we have tackled that, then we can get onto the world.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:08
We do need to tackle the world.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:10
People need to be aware of this issue to stop it.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:13
All of this needs to be totally eradicated.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:15
This practice should never happen.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:17
It's just atrocious.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:19
Every kind of descriptor I can find, mind.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:22
It's just heinous.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:25
You know, this is.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:26
This is torture.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:27
This is abuse.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:28
It is everything that should never, ever happen to any human being.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:32
And if it happened to a boy or a man, like I said earlier, there's no way it would happen, you know?
Shelly Johnson
00:46:40
Well, if you think about 230 million women in the world, we don't even have that many women in the United States.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:46
That puts it in perspective.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:48
Makes you really think of the gravity and the size of it.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:51
That's a lot of people.
Kathy Tucaro
00:46:52
It really is.
Shelly Johnson
00:46:52
It's a lot of people.
Shelly Johnson
00:46:54
It's a lot of people.
Shelly Johnson
00:46:56
I was involved in the eradication of polio, and now that's only in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:03
So I've seen global campaigns work and this one needs to be a global campaign, too.
Kathy Tucaro
00:47:12
Yep.
Kathy Tucaro
00:47:12
And people need to attend the international day about this issue that happens every year in February.
Kathy Tucaro
00:47:19
They need to be involved.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:20
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:21
And an Egyptian girl had just died from being cut because one of the things that can happen is death because of the bleeding.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:29
And they talked about that when I was there on February 6th of 2020.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:34
So we had a real life.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:35
Right.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:36
The same week example of how terrible it is.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:39
It's just so.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:41
Just so you know, Shelly, I.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:42
If your listeners are feeling that there is vicarious trauma, as I start to feel when you hear that, what happens?
Shelly Johnson
00:47:51
How can you not feel empathy?
Kathy Tucaro
00:47:53
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:54
One of the survivors, she's from Somalia.
Shelly Johnson
00:47:58
She's told her story at a conference I attended in the uk and I couldn't stop crying because she's the one that remembers.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:06
She was 7 when she was cut.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:08
She remembers it all.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:10
I was just like, oh, my gosh, what do you say?
Shelly Johnson
00:48:13
I'm sorry.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:14
Like, is that good enough?
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:16
Yeah.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:16
I mean, the person's Life is forever changed.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:19
Correct.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:20
Not in the good.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:21
Not for the good at all.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:22
It's emotionally and physically traumatic.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:24
It leaves a scar.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:26
And I can't imagine any parent that would say, gee, this is an okay practice.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:31
Right?
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:32
You know?
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:33
Well, thank you, Maria, for what you're doing.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:36
We definitely need some people involved, and that's why I wanted you on the show.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:40
It's a tough topic, but sometimes it takes the tough topics to make a change.
Kathy Tucaro
00:48:45
It really does.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:46
Well, and thank you for your courage, too, and what you do on a regular basis, because that's so empowering.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:53
It really is helpful for women, period.
Shelly Johnson
00:48:55
And men, because it's been proven that the stronger a woman is in society, the better off that society is for all concerned.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:06
Absolutely.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:07
Yes.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:08
It's very true.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:09
And people need to know that.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:10
And that's why we want to empower everyone but women.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:13
Definitely.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:14
Women and girls, education, knowledge, empowerment, all of that is so very important.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:21
It's the best thing for humanity.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:23
It really is.
Shelly Johnson
00:49:24
It really is.
Shelly Johnson
00:49:25
Yeah.
Shelly Johnson
00:49:26
Thank you, Shelley.
Shelly Johnson
00:49:27
Thank you for the privilege.
Shelly Johnson
00:49:28
I really appreciate the opportunity.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:30
It's been an honor having you on the show.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:32
I.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:32
I appreciate that.
Shelly Johnson
00:49:33
Thank you, Shelly.
Shelly Johnson
00:49:34
Continued success.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:35
Thank you.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:36
I wanted to add a postscript, an update for our listeners.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:40
After recording this interview with Dr.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:42
Sanchez, Kathy and I found out that the California bill that she discussed, AB798, eventually died in the California Senate Appropriations Committee in 2024.
Kathy Tucaro
00:49:54
If you're as outraged by that as we are and you live in California, please contact your lawmakers.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:00
That's true for any of the other states and District of Columbia that are silent on this human rights violation.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:06
Female genital mutilation has no place anywhere in the world.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:11
It takes a village and a unified voice to stop it.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:14
It also takes awareness.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:17
Please tell other people about it, share this interview or reach out to Stop the Cut now for more information on how to help@stopthecutnow.org thank you.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:29
We hope you found this latest episode informative.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:32
And if you'd like to hear more episodes of Women Road warriors or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com and please follow us on social media.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:43
And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on our website.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:47
We also have a selection of podcasts just for women.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:51
They're a series of podcasts from different podcasters.
Kathy Tucaro
00:50:53
So if you're in the mood for women's podcasts, just click the Power network tab on womenroadwarriors.com youm'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to Podcasts Made for Women Women Road warriors is on all the major podcast channels like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube and others.
Kathy Tucaro
00:51:12
Check us out and please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts.
Kathy Tucaro
00:51:16
Thanks for listening.
Shelly Johnson
00:51:20
You've been listening to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Shelly Johnson
00:51:26
If you want to be a guest on the show or have a topic or feedback, email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.