#10 Rose

Hey, how are you? 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:09.119 I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not? No, 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:10.640 I think. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:11.840 Didn't you try to Facebook friend me? 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:13.080 I don't think I responded. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.000 Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:16.479 friend me? 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.560 Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends. 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.320 No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.040 we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:26.599 friend each other at the exact same. 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.440 Time, get from each other. Because I have to go 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:29.280 to work right now. 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:30.880 Can't you take the computer with you. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:32.400 I'm stepping out the door now and I have to 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:32.800 get on my. 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.879 Bicycle bounce on the handlebars. And then you could we 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.960 could we could facebook chat. Don't you think that's a 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.120 good idea? If, like, if we both friend each other 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.920 at the same time? No, why not? 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:46.280 One? 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:53.519 Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:04.840 from Dimlin. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:21.119 episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had their 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.720 first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser known 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.800 fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked out 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.800 their original drummer Pete Best. The Beatles had their manager 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.120 do the job. The lads just don't want you in 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:36.919 the band anymore, he said. 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:37.800 No. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.839 Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged. 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.120 Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:50.000 funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.080 long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.960 had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family. 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:01.000 Oh bla de oh bla dah, life went on. That's 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:05.360 what happens. People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs, 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:09.560 and eventually they stop searching for the reason why. Most 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:11.840 people do anyway, So. 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.840 I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.680 I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:18.399 thousand and one. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.079 This is Rose and the school she was entering was 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.400 the University of North Florida. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.440 And it's like a beachy community. I was like a 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.920 cool surfer chick. I dreve like an old Volvo that 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:31.840 was covered in like band stickers. 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.600 Rose was a rebel, and if all the teen movies 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.280 I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.720 campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.880 kids and at the University of North Florida, nobody was 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.600 more popular than the sorority girls. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.520 Will you like walk through school and they're set up 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:53.240 there and they're like along the sidewalks and. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.359 They're like, are you interested in enjoying a sorority? 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.400 And I would just like blow by on my skateboard 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:58.560 and be like no. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.359 I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.240 With with with sorority life. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.200 Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.120 and like the cool kids and their pop callers, like, 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:17.000 I didn't think that was for me. So the summer 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.080 after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:24.959 start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.320 making friends with all these people in the Greek community 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.200 and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.560 not weird. I started to dress like them, I started 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.680 to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted. 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.320 And the fall of. 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.680 My junior year, I rushed and I got a bid 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:44.200 from Alpha Kai and I joined. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.960 Sorry, the name of the sorority. 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.440 Was, It's called Alpha Kai Omega. 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:58.440 Alpha Kai Omega, and we were the Theta Sigma chapter 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.040 Stata Sigma. 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:03.600 Chapter theta with the thh. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.720 So it was the Theta Sigma chapter of Alpha ky Omega, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.040 and it was at unf sororities. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.360 It was a new and exciting world with such a 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.960 rich history. It turns out that Condolei's a Rice Enron Whistleblow, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.599 or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.160 Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Chi and had 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.080 taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.159 avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.800 part of Alpha chi Omega Theta Sigma chapter. 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.240 We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, we wear pearls, 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.320 we know our manners. 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.760 You know, like that, did they use the word classy. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:45.560 You're not being classy? 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:45.880 Yeah? 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:46.520 Absolutely. 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.800 And they had like all these weird acronyms, like if 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.600 someone came up to you and whispered in your your pearl, 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.400 it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl, please engage 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:58.840 in acts resembling a lady. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.920 So if someone says pearl in your that would mean 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:03.640 you would. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.880 Begin to It would mean like, let's say I'm doing 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.440 a keg stand at a party and another sister is there. 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.080 Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant, 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.400 because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead, 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.560 she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.839 in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh, 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:22.400 you're right, thank you for reminding me. 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.080 Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.760 building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.440 toe in scarlet red and olive green, the Alpha Kyomega colors. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.200 And while she'd never seen herself being cut out for 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.960 all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing was it 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.200 actually made her really happy. 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.800 I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.120 got really into it and just walking around school now 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.640 all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.279 knows you, and now you're in on the in side 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.159 jokes like I felt like I belonged, Like I went 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.200 from being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:07.919 bubbly participant. 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.920 Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.840 watching The Bachelor, one weekend, they all ran a campus 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:25.360 charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss and. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.240 I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired after 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.640 that five K and I'm having a lot of trouble 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:32.960 sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night. 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.560 Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.120 feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:41.200 to see a doctor. 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:43.800 And I said, could you take a look at my neck, Like, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.880 I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:48.440 was treating me that day just like looked at me 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:49.039 in horror and. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.640 Was like, you have to go to radiation right now. 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.160 And I was like, I have to make an appointment, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.119 and she was like, no, I'm calling the second floor 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.719 and you're going to go get a CT scan right now. 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:01.719 So it was crazy. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.800 They called it nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.000 pronounced lymph notes all over my body. You could take 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:10.560 one look at me and it looked like my neck 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:12.760 and chest were just full of golf balls, like something 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.880 was wrong. By the time we started testing and staging, 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.840 I mean I was a stage three. This is like 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.720 big cake cancer. This is like shave your head, Rose, 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.080 like you've got real cancer. So I think around May 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:26.040 I started chemo. 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.960 Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.960 Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.720 one bright note throughout was the support she got from 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.200 her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.360 Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:47.840 quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.080 Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.400 Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.080 of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she 0:07:58.240 --> 0:07:59.320 kept up with her work. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.520 And new girls are coming through and they have to 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.040 decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.360 Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell. 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.840 Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:13.920 with the cancer girl and we're saving her life. 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.800 And that was something that they led with, that was 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:18.760 actually something that was made explicit. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.600 Oh, I got up there with my bald head and 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.800 gave a speech and cried every time about how my 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:25.240 sisters were saving my life. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.040 Rose was lucky. By the spring of her senior year, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.960 her cancer went into remission for the first time in 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.720 more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.960 I just had a lot of fun that semester. My 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.160 hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.480 energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person, 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.760 and like, now I'm not just going to a party 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:47.520 to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.679 the house, like now I want a party, Like now 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.360 I want to have fun. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.439 So I did. I felt like I deserved it. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.160 Then one night, after being cancer free for five months, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.320 Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which I met 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.280 in an old auditorium on campus. 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.720 And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose, 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:07.559 can you stay after We need to talk to you. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.560 So they clear everybody out and now it's just like 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:15.959 five or six women and me, and they're like, all right, Rose, 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.080 like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:25.840 ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah, 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:27.600 we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.800 thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.560 you're asking me to step down? As VP recruitment, like 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.000 the new girls love me, I'm great with the new girls. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.160 Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no, 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:47.160 we want you to resign from the organization. We want 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.000 you to resign from Alpha Kai. 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.680 And I lost it. 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.880 It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.760 with you, and like you get that cold feeling in 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:58.719 your chest and you know that someone's about to look 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.080 at you and say like this isn't Yeah. It was 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.800 like that times one hundred, Like now a hundred of 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.800 my friends were all breaking up with me in a 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:15.040 very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming, and 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:15.800 I just kept. 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.360 Saying, why, what do you mean you want me out? 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.880 And this is when they just all of a sudden, 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.240 it was like these women I'd known for years, they 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.840 were strangers and there was no compassion, there was no kindness. 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.520 It was you know what you did, Rose, you know 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:31.120 what you did? 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.320 And I was like, no, no, you have to tell 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.720 me what did I do? Did something bad happen? 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:43.720 Rose? 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:45.840 We're not getting into it. You know what you did? 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.760 And I'm just like, no, no, I don't know what 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:51.120 I did. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.520 And at this point I am so distraught. I think 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.160 I'm like hyperventilating and crying. I think I'm ugly crying. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.240 I think, like snaw, it's just bubbling out of my 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:03.160 nose and I don't have the wherewithal to demand answers. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.160 And I'm like, so that's it, We're done here. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.280 You want me out and they're like, yeah, as of tonight, 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:15.000 you are no longer affiliated with Alpha ky Omega. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.840 She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council, 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.760 She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:26.640 no one would tell. 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.920 Her why No one has ever told me? 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.040 And did you ever pursue it further? 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:32.880 God, yes, for years? 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.040 Like, hey guys, it's been five years since we graduated college. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:38.680 I know this is kind of weird, but I still 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.240 think about it. Does anyone want to tell me? I've 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.680 done the thing on Facebook where I've made the big 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.199 Facebook post where I'm like, all right, does everyone remember 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.440 when Rose got kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.400 or anyone you know has any information, like I'm still 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.360 dying to know, And then like dozens of my friends 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:55.880 are like, oh, I'm following this post. 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:56.320 What was it? 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:56.720 What was it? 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.560 And still to this day, no answers like you're racking 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.199 your brain. I'm like, did I get blackout drunk and 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:03.360 sleep with someone's boyfriend? 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.559 Did you ever see any other of the sisters get 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:08.079 kicked out? 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:09.599 No? 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:09.760 No? 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.000 And that's the thing, is like, Okay, let's not mince 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.040 words here, like was Rosea party girl? 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:15.560 Yes? 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.440 Were there girls who were way worse than me? 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:18.559 Absolutely? 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.280 And did they get kicked out? Never? 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.160 Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes, 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.120 does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And would Jonathan 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:35.440 quit before solving it? Never. Rose's college memories have all 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.800 been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, but 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.280 her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:47.800 They had to be past the college drama. So after 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.280 Rose and I part, I begin reaching out to them 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:56.400 for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. Trish, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.680 I've been trying to get in touch Anita. I was 0:12:58.679 --> 0:12:59.360 trying to reach you. 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:00.559 Zoe. 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.280 This is Jonathan goldste we'll speak soon, Claire. I phone 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:05.080 them in their cars. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.199 Hi, Hey, I've got my daughter walking into BALLEI class short. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.839 No, of course, I phone them in their homes. Do 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:12.520 you have a minute to. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.719 Speak, I do, I have a toddler to say, you. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.720 Know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, Hi on. 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.640 Sugar, because she just pole the bag of jelly being 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.880 But yes, no, I cannot pick you up. I'm not 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:25.440 picking you up. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:33.320 No, I'm sorry. 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.200 But not one of Rose's ex sorority sisters can tell 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.080 me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.319 it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.280 There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.920 only a handful had been in the room when Rose 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.199 was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber. 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.560 When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.920 call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.760 this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:11.320 time ago. Hello. I call back, and Amber apologizes for 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.160 our being disconnected, but when I ask her why Rose 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:20.120 was kicked out again, the line goes dead. This is 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.720 odd otter Still is a conversation with an Alpha Chi 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.800 sister a year younger than Rose. She says she inherited 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.280 all the disciplinary documents from Rose's year, but that one 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.200 file was missing, the one detailing why Rose had been 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:49.680 kicked out. Things were beginning to feel kolludy. Hello, oh 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:55.440 hey Rose, Hi. I call Rose to update her, but 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.000 it seems she's already gotten wind of my doings. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.240 So I think you must have been reaching out to 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.800 a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai. 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.560 Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.600 snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly a consensus was reached 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:15.640 shut this guy out. 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.600 Just the way that some of the girls were replying 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.359 in the thread. It just felt like twelve years. 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.480 Hadn't even passed And how do you mean? 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.800 It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place, 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.160 and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.480 mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.360 whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond. 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.360 And then everyone just started to follow in line and 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.440 be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not. 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.200 Gonna call them, Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:47.480 to go over their heads. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:16:01.640 How Alpha Kaya men a headquarters this is season. 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.200 The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:08.920 building at the end of a long tree lined cool 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:13.520 de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ki 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:18.160 Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out, 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.360 it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.400 the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.000 Okay, yes, I'm sure there are. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.640 Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.720 comes up sometimes where people want to know why they 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.680 might have been kicked out of a sorority or is 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:39.280 this uncommon? 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.480 I would think most people would know why. 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.040 Yeah, what happened in her case? This is a woman 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.520 by the name of Rose Shapiro. And how do you 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.560 spell her last name Shapiro? I think it must be 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.040 spelled s h A. 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:55.880 S H. 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:15.320 No sha h p s and Peter I R O H. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:18.760 Are you okay? 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:19.080 Yes? 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:20.919 I did sign her in here? 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:21.680 Oh? 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:22.159 Okay? 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:23.679 Does it? 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.520 Does it say anything with alongside her name? 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.000 I'm just looking at a status So you're. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.400 So then there is some information alongside her name. 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.160 I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.760 about this member. I wouldn't know her at all. And 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.720 you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.520 What if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.359 she be able to find out the information? 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.080 I would think so sure. 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:14.560 Mm hm, well we'll just have to see. After the break, 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.280 a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:38.320 Hey Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's. 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.520 It going good? You ready to get some answers? I 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.720 tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.200 we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.720 call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet. 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.639 All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:19:07.680 Okay, I'm going to call right now, Alpha coy O 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:08.840 Mega Headquarters. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:09.679 This is the season. 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.240 Hi, Susan, my name is Rose. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.720 And lying on my stomach on the floor of the 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.680 darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.320 girl as I play with the phone cord and silently 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.920 nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.080 Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.280 Alpha coy O Mega, the Theta Sigma chapter. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.480 Okay, and what's your name is Rose Shapiro? Okay, all right, 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.960 I'm gonna give you the Mandy tar water. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.360 Okay, before you transfer. I did have just one more 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.680 question for you. Is there any way that you can 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.360 just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.920 a member in good standing or as a former member? 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.080 Is there even is there anyone? 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:57.400 Yeah? 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.359 I think it's I think it says that you're not 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.760 in good stand. I wish I could help you, but 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:07.199 I don't know that. Let me see here. Mendy is 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.320 out this afternoon, but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:16.399 leave a message with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:17.120 should do that. 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.000 Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.679 she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.879 Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.520 voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:38.440 pan while listening in for emotional support. Okay, you're on Rose. 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:40.960 At the tone, please record your message. 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.560 My name is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.359 to other people at headquarters. Someone named Gina. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:50.359 Let's try Gina hold on. 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:55.000 Then someone named Eliza Eliza Payne is not available to 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:55.800 take your call. 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.080 Please leave a message after the tone. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.040 Hikia, Elizah, this is Roe Shapiro trying you again. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.680 One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist, 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.120 has been disappeared, possibly for saying too. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.520 Much Alfa Comega headquarters. This is Cynthia or. 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:14.680 Susan had the day off? 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.919 Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:18.560 former member. 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.359 Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater. 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.639 Hi, Mini, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member. 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:27.400 In the end. 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.720 After months of phone calls, Rose finally hears back from 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:35.560 Alpha Coyomega headquarters. They pass along a single document, a 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.520 letter dated April twenty first, two thousand and five. The 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.800 letter is brief, plainly stating that Rose Shapiro resigned from 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.680 Alpha Kyomega of her own accord. They have no other 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:53.240 information to share. We know now definitely that the only 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.520 way that we're going to get anywhere with this is 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:02.119 actually by finding a sorority girl who was there and 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:02.960 willing to talk. 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:06.840 Ah. 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.080 Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.159 drop everything for one of my updates, now she was 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:17.920 sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now? 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.320 I'm cutting potatoes? Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:22.359 make some mashed potatoes. 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.400 Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great. 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:36.560 Recorded Fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:37.679 are you cleaning out your fridge? 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:38.320 Oh? 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:40.640 I'm done. 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.439 I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing. 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.360 But a couple of weeks later, I get a call 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:56.800 from one of Rose's ex rority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially, 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.960 Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the month 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.600 she thought about it and had a change of heart. 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.920 I call Rose to share with her our good fortune. 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.760 As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm. 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.280 Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes. 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:19.639 All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister. 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:21.880 She was one of the six girls in the room 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.160 who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that, 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.679 Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time, 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:32.600 and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties, 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.040 singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.119 that legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.960 since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us. 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:45.520 She might be our last chance to get an answer. 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.919 So during the conversation we'd need to tread lightly, and 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.800 I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit. 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:03.320 The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution, 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:07.960 plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for 0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:11.080 Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:15.919 for years? Why did you kick me out? So I 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.640 decide that a code word is in order, a word 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.520 I can use to signal to Rose that the time 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:26.000 is right. I have plenty of experience with code words. 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:28.800 Dinner party going too late and I want people out 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:31.840 of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses, 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:34.879 and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.400 band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:43.280 while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls, 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:49.080 I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word, 0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:52.280 and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:52.959 well worth it. 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.000 Okay, what's the code work going to be? 0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:56.600 So? 0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:01.560 Okay? So I was thinking maybe medicine balls. 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:06.959 No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations. 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:12.240 Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:17.520 words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet o de toilette. 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:19.080 That's very Canadian. 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:21.000 How about how about if I were to say without 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:23.800 a do or a don't? Is that something that people say? Oh, 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:25.600 I'd say. Well, for the better part of an hour, 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:30.160 Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes, we have no tomatoes, boy, 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.600 or my dog's barking. Some people call me Maurice. Finally 0:25:35.119 --> 0:25:38.040 Rose is satisfied. How about I say, and so it goes. 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:41.359 That's what I'll show and so it goes, and so 0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:43.520 it goes. Okay, I'm writing that down. So that's going 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:45.880 to be our code word. Okay, So when I say 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:51.160 and so it goes, you're gonna say, you know, Tricia, 0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:57.000 like what just what happened? We had a plan, we 0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:02.679 had a code word. It was time for another word 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:19.199 from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey, so I have 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.320 I have Rose on the line. I think you guys 0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:23.080 can hear each other. 0:26:23.200 --> 0:26:25.560 Rose, Hi, Hi. 0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.000 It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:35.720 catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big 0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:39.920 Talent Show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member. 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:42.000 And they were like, we've never done this before, but 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:43.840 here you go. 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.840 Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did 0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:48.320 die for best New Member. 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:50.199 Yeah. 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:54.520 The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission, 0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:59.080 and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:02.399 Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:06.119 person and started to veer onto what Trisha calls a 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:06.800 bad pass. 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:10.359 You got angry, and not at certain people, but just 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.280 that like the situation at life. 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:20.800 You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction. 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:24.879 It's not like you were like pushing people down or 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.119 punching them in the face. To me, I think that 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:32.760 what I perceived was like partying, partying with attorneys, like 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.399 drinking a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.960 two big middle fingers up. It's just like yo, no 0:27:41.000 --> 0:27:42.520 one's going to tell me what to do or how 0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:43.280 to live my life. 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:48.080 I just have a perception of myself that's like ooh, 0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:50.560 I be cancer, Like all bets are off. Man, Like 0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:52.159 now I get to do what I want like I 0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:56.960 did my time, Like now I'm like, like, if I 0:27:57.000 --> 0:27:58.919 want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to 0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.800 be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just be canter, 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:04.800 Like I think there was you were suffering. 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:08.280 The conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence to 0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:12.679 battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate any further, 0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:18.280 something needed to be said, I and so and so 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:26.520 it goes. I think that just Rose got the memo 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:28.879 and was back on point. 0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:32.480 I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:35.800 if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out, 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:37.840 like I had no idea was coming. 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:45.720 Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:47.640 give you like a list of like this is what 0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:49.080 it was, this is what it was, this is what 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:51.520 it was. I honestly like, can't. 0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:56.040 I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why 0:28:56.120 --> 0:28:59.160 she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants 0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:02.680 to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk 0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:04.680 about it, can't get into it. 0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:07.040 Like I wish I could give you specific sentence of 0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:09.840 like at this party, who said this? Does that make sense? 0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:11.880 Like I don't know it wasn't making sense to me, 0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:15.000 and I worried that it wasn't making sense to Rose either, 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:18.719 So I try to clarify literally, like I'm not sure 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.880 whether it's a matter of like you do know, but 0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:27.800 you feel an obligation to kind of hold the secrets 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:29.760 of the story all these years later. Do you know 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:30.200 what I mean? 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:36.240 Or yeah, no I I and and maybe like I 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:36.960 would say. 0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:41.640 No, like was there some kind of oath or something 0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:43.920 like that, or was it because you don't. 0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:49.640 Remember well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath. 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.360 Everything that happens in here stays in here. And so 0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:56.280 there was there was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece 0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:57.640 to those meetings. 0:29:58.240 --> 0:30:00.200 I get the feeling that Tricia and the most of 0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:03.720 her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.200 and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties. 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:10.360 This is I think the hardest thing was to think 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:13.719 of the health of the chapter as a whole, and 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:18.320 how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:19.640 like one or two people. 0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:25.920 By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet. 0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:29.000 So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:31.200 in with her about how she felt the call went. 0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:34.800 I think it sounds like she has some memories, but 0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:37.720 she's not sure where she picked them up or who 0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:40.960 she's be betraying if she talked about them. She's always 0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:43.200 going to believe and everyone else in that room is 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:45.400 always going to believe that there was something about my 0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:51.120 behavior that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority. 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:54.600 And I mean she almost called me a cancer. She 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.080 almost said like for the health of the organization, I 0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:01.240 had to be removed. I think Truth is a bad person. 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:03.720 I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:06.120 cool girl, But ultimately what I got from her is 0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:08.040 that she doesn't think kicking me out was a mistake. 0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.400 For the next few weeks, I try to find someone, 0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:18.320 anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:22.280 phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people 0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:25.600 who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:28.960 shot they might have heard something. And then one day 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:33.200 I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's 0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:37.280 college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when 0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:40.000 we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that 0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:49.600 seemed too strange. To be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how 0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:49.880 are you? 0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:55.440 Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank. 0:31:55.560 --> 0:31:56.760 Drive through right now, real quick. 0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.920 Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with 0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:05.840 her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned 0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:06.920 up Rick. 0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:08.200 Okay. 0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:10.600 And one of the things though, that he shared with 0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:12.840 me and I wonder, I mean, I feel like you 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:17.160 must know this though we've not ever talked about it, 0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:20.120 is the fact that he was also kicked out of 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:22.920 his fraternity. 0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:28.760 Holy shit, wait what Yeah? 0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:31.800 Like at the time, he was also kicked out of his. 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:35.760 Fraternity of k kicked out Rick natering Ouse. 0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:39.920 Yeah, Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the 0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.280 same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai. 0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.480 Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked 0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.360 out in years, and he never got an answer as 0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:52.000 to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it, 0:32:52.400 --> 0:32:55.080 one that explains why both of them got kicked out. 0:32:56.400 --> 0:32:58.880 I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good 0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:00.600 idea for her and Rick to talk. 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:02.320 Yeah, we should make that happen. 0:33:05.920 --> 0:33:07.760 Hey, Jonathan, how are you good? 0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:11.560 I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:12.320 guys hear each other? 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:16.600 Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you? 0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:20.200 Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting 0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:24.200 in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:27.560 after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida. 0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:30.800 The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:34.080 first time they've talked about getting kicked out. Right away, 0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:35.600 they start trading stories. 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:40.200 Mine was just a phone call, and it was a 0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:43.120 phone call from one of our brothers that was founding 0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:45.560 father Chaz, and just basically said, hey, you're. 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:47.920 You're done here. 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:52.000 That is so insane. You were like the responsible one. 0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:54.880 That's so insane. Oh my god, I don't know. 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:57.680 Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them 0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:01.120 talk about old times. Eventually why their way back to 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:04.200 the days when they were a couple. When Rose was 0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:07.680 diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment. 0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:11.520 He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After 0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.720 the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended, 0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:17.360 Rick was the one waiting at home to look after 0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:21.080 her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember 0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.640 being were you scared at any point? 0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:23.920 Rick? 0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:26.359 Like? Do you fear that? Like Rose was gonna die 0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:27.040 of course. 0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:29.719 I mean, you hear that the word cancer, and that's 0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.080 obviously one of the things that you're going to think about. 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:33.480 You know, we had been dating. 0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:36.240 For a little bit, but it wasn't a great length 0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:39.279 of time before this even happened. So you know, you 0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:41.560 take those feelings that you have for somebody and I mean, 0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:44.080 you're still developing a relationship and then all of a 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:46.319 sudden it go through and think, hey, you know you 0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:46.880 have cancer. 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:49.560 So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying. 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:53.440 It's terrifying. 0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:56.359 And I was like bald and my skin was turning gray, 0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:59.440 and like there he was like going to functions with 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:00.879 me and being my boyfriend. 0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:03.880 And I remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo. 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:07.400 I am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we 0:35:07.480 --> 0:35:09.839 go down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because 0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:10.880 it's right around my birthday. 0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:11.879 It's the beginning of July. 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:15.719 And then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:17.600 the temperature dropped like. 0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:20.120 A crazy amount. It downpours. 0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:24.000 We get completely soaked, and now there's like chemo rose 0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:26.799 is freezing. I have no immune system. I'm just like 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.520 teeth chattering, and so Rick took me over to the 0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.560 vendor area and he bought me this like head to 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.600 toe windbreaker outfit of Darryl Earnhardt juice. 0:35:38.120 --> 0:35:38.920 Do you remember that? 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:44.400 I do? You look like you pretty much belong with 0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:44.919 that van base. 0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:47.040 I looked like a twelve year old boy who was 0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:50.120 sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friends. 0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.399 In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after 0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:01.359 her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick, 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:04.520 and although Rick was sad, he understood it. 0:36:05.920 --> 0:36:11.239 Rose needed to have some time to be able to 0:36:12.120 --> 0:36:15.120 go and experience life. 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:19.120 And so when that took place, her and I split, 0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:19.319 and a. 0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:20.680 Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you 0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:23.840 split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to 0:36:23.880 --> 0:36:24.960 go and kind of live her life. 0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:27.400 Well that's kind of a shit way of doing it, 0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:30.239 because I mean, hell, didn't you take care of her? Yeah? 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:31.560 But I mean she's got it, She's got to figure 0:36:31.560 --> 0:36:32.080 herself out. 0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:37.800 We both got it, but we got it, and nobody 0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:39.560 else really understood. 0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:53.120 Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:56.720 he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends 0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:59.520 were mad at Rose, and Rose's friends were mad at Rick, 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.440 and each side started rumors about the other, and in 0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:06.800 that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined. 0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:09.640 It was like the breakup version of the Gift of 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:13.600 the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:15.080 seems to click for Rose. 0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:19.840 Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I 0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:23.360 am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.160 that maybe I had done him wrong or something could 0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:28.760 have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:31.920 like defensive or protective on either side of that equation. 0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:37.200 Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up 0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:39.799 to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine, 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.360 going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up, 0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:45.320 and I heard she was cheating on you for two years. 0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:47.480 Her was cheating on you for you know, the two 0:37:47.480 --> 0:37:50.600 months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap 0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:57.919 You remember Trip. Oh yeah, he was the one kick 0:37:57.960 --> 0:37:59.200 comes by my apartment one time. 0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:01.040 He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:05.440 was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on. 0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:10.239 The stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a 0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:12.959 lot of Rose's sorority sisters were beginning to think about 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.880 her after her cancer went into remission, that she was 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:19.040 too wild, too much of a partier. But how do 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.640 you kick out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority. 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:26.000 It's a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent, 0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:29.359 if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through 0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:32.840 her illness. These rumors must have been just what the 0:38:32.840 --> 0:38:36.040 sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral 0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:39.920 high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's 0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:43.560 sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick 0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:46.840 saw the experience as having changed her back to the 0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:49.279 person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai. 0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:52.680 When she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what, 0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:57.160 thank who? Really you're gonna You're gonna go that route 0:38:57.440 --> 0:38:59.080 because that's that's not her. 0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:08.520 Rose. 0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:09.759 Are you a Beatles fan? 0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:11.360 Yes? 0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:15.560 Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best, So 0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.000 I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles. 0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:20.560 I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard 0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:23.560 for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style. 0:39:24.120 --> 0:39:26.520 But how lately, looking at old photos of the band 0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:30.000 with Pete Best hunched in the background, it all seems 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:34.040 a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs 0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:36.880 of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether, 0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:41.360 like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know, 0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:46.160 And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why 0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:48.080 was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he 0:39:48.239 --> 0:39:49.800 just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle? 0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:55.200 I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I 0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:58.279 think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai. 0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:02.799 I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put 0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:05.880 into words or a definition what made them similar and 0:40:05.960 --> 0:40:08.600 made me different, But I just know that I was different. 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:15.360 Roads Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer, 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:17.840 that maybe they would have forced you out earlier? 0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:19.400 God? 0:40:19.520 --> 0:40:20.040 Probably. 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:28.640 I think I was doing a really good job of 0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.359 trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh, 0:40:31.440 --> 0:40:34.560 my best behavior, but I think that like the real 0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:37.719 me just kept like cracking out, and then once once 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:40.680 after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, oh, 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:41.640 let's not put. 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:42.360 On errs anymore. 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:44.320 Like I am who I am, and I was trying 0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:47.200 really hard to like cram myself into that mold and 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:51.120 it just wasn't fitting, like it just wasn't working. 0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:55.839 Yeah, Like I think, like, in having spoken to quite 0:40:55.880 --> 0:41:00.280 a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:03.400 of them sound like you. No, and I mean that 0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:05.040 I mean that in a nice way. 0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:06.440 No, I'm totally down with that. 0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:09.080 Like I'm a fucking maniac and that's who I am, 0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:11.719 and I've come to fully embrace that right now, Like 0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:14.279 I'm really cool with who I am. 0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:19.040 Well you know, I'm uh, I'm cool with who you are. Also, 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:27.280 thank you. Years after getting kicked out of the Beatles, 0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:30.080 Pete Best said he was still hopeful that maybe one 0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:33.279 day he'd find out why. Maybe I'll run into Paul, 0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:37.120 he said, and we can talk about it. If decades 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:40.000 from now, Rose should run into one of her sorority sisters, 0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:42.279 I hope you won't need to talk about anything other 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.719 than the weather or what she's making for supper, And 0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:48.720 then she could say or goodbyes and get back to chopping, 0:41:49.080 --> 0:41:53.160 banking and basically being the maniac that she is. 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:35.759 Now that the fernentures returning to its goodwill home, now 0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:40.600 that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage 0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:47.120 to poss take this moment to deserve. If we met 0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:49.839 him we tried. 0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:52.960 But felt around for far too. 0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:58.160 From Things that Accidentally. 0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:05.239 Tal Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein 0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:08.920 along with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Caitlin Roberts. 0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:12.960 Editing by Jorge just, Alex Bloomberg and Wendy Door. Special 0:43:13.000 --> 0:43:17.719 thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, and Jackie Cohen. The 0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:21.160 show was mixed by Kate Bolinsky, music by Christine Fellows 0:43:21.200 --> 0:43:24.320 and John K. Sampson. Additional music credits for this episode 0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:28.360 can be found on our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. 0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:31.120 Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of 0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:34.720 Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Hailey Shaw. 0:43:35.239 --> 0:43:38.600 Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at 0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:42.080 Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a new episode 0:43:42.480 --> 0:44:00.279 next week by Palagram. Why a Blazer we repainted? Wh