E356- Inside a Service Dog Group: Solving Reactivity Issues

[SPEAKER_00]: Hello everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the NoBendogs podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a unique one.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a podcast with a service dog training group that train service dogs for very particular things such as veterans and people who really need dogs and they in
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an amazing thing what these guys are doing, and they just had some questions about some of their reactive dogs, and their German shepherds, and unfortunately they had an illness go through the canal, which prevented them from the proper socialization, and all the things that they normally would do, and so they're kind of stuck, and they just needed some guidance, so I'm really walking them through.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's great, yeah, I think you guys are going to learn a lot from it, from building and reacting and what to do when your dog starts to build and how to deactivate it and how to dismantle it, things I've talked about a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, hopefully you guys love this podcast as much as I loved helping these guys out, amazing people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the people who are working and or volunteering for this group, you guys are awesome and just keep on keeping on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you guys for listening again and we'll talk to you on the next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye There's gonna be patches video three nine zero five So Do you want to just let me just dive into what I'm seeing and what I recommend?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's do that Okay So walking over the bridge and then hitting the brakes, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that's
[SPEAKER_00]: What I would recommend, just in general, when a dog does that, is I would recommend like when when when patches is backing out, we get really low as patches of male or female.
[SPEAKER_04]: Female.
[SPEAKER_00]: Female.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when she's backing out and she's trying to run away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as she's, and you guys are trying to get her inside like the office area or the, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as she's putting on the brakes and trying to basically crawl out of her own skin and get out of there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Couple things I would be doing is turning around so not facing the dog and turning around and seeing if the dog will follow instead of
[SPEAKER_00]: go face-to-face.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times I see with dogs who have very, they put on the brakes, sometimes it's insecurity, sometimes it's fear, sometimes it's, I don't, I don't want to leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not the case here, but in a lot of times if we turn and we face the dog, it opens up this conversation with the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I find that to be in some situations it could be helpful, but in most situations what you're really trying to communicate with the dog, like this isn't an option for you to run away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for an example when the dog puts her head down and she's like trying to get away from you and not get away from the handle or try to get away from going into this room for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I like to do is just keep my back towards the dog and use that momentum to just drive forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you'll just get that really quick commitment typically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so once we face the dog and on paper it makes sense to just face the dog and try to reward the dog with food.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the dog will commit, but I find more, I find less sticky situations with dogs like this if we just turn our back and then just continue to walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the dog plants, we, you're using the same amount of leash pressure that you're using if the dog is, if you're facing the dog, we're still kind of moving the dog trying to move the dog along, I would assume with this Martin Gale.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you just turn your back towards the dog and use that momentum to say, hey, we're going this way and oftentimes dogs are just being opportunistic just to see what they can get away with, where they're having this conversation go, wait, wait, wait, I don't want to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the minute we turn, we kind of condition the dog that when they put on their brakes, they ultimately can get what they want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we don't want to teach the dog that when they put on their brakes and they start backing out of a situation that
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, that's only applicable for dogs who are acting this way for no really particular reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be completely different if we were asking a dog to do something very scary or jump in through a fiery hoop when we're not, we're just asking the dog to walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the more that we turn around and kind of, a lot of pet owners will do this, we turn around and we go, it's okay, come on, we kind of readcrum them along verbally.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's nothing wrong with trying to give the dog the positive reinforcement to say, hey, come on, you're doing good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we, I just find that the confidence and the assertiveness to just kind of turn, I call it turn and burn, you just keep going the dogs like, oh, okay, I don't really have a choice here.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't working.
[SPEAKER_00]: but sometimes the dog will condition that if they do a certain thing they get a certain reaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: I stop you stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: I pull back, you go towards me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I start to pull out of the collar, you get down on your knees or whatever and so a lot of times I'll just stop and if the dog is
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a couple times where the dog was really having a hard time mentally, and then there were a couple times where the dog was saying, I just don't want to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's kind of a fine line, and I would say, you know, to give you context at the beginning of the video where she put on the brakes right in the beginning at like the five second mark, that was her going, and I don't really want to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you got closer to the door at like the 17 second mark is where she really was like getting into to what we what we would call like classic fighter flight and so most dogs most dogs and they're you know because of their temperament aren't going to fight you and they're just going to say hey I really don't like this and so it's even better to just kind of turn your back and have steady pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: instead of trying to have the dog like, come to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you kind of make yourself small and try to give the dog food, oftentimes they're too stressed for food, and then sometimes again we can condition the dog that if they do a certain thing, they can get away with a certain thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that ultimately can decrease the dog's confidence, because when they are looking at a handler going, hey, what can I pick you apart on?
[SPEAKER_00]: and they do a certain thing, then ultimately, you know, and so, so a lot of times you have two different scenarios here where if a dog is terrified for a reason, you have to approach the situation differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we, if the dog has serious trauma, I mean, I mean abuse neglected.
[SPEAKER_00]: in an environment or in a room or in a crate that has presented abuse or trauma in the past example, dogs who have been left in crates for days and months at a time, like obviously they don't want to get back in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a little bit different.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of have to read between the lines there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you will and take that with a grain of salt, but ultimately, if a dog goes, wait a minute, I can't do this and then we and then we flip and we go, oh it's okay, everything's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: boom it just tells the dog we're just layering on like oh shit this might be actually a problem where a lot of times the way that I explain it to my clients I'm like make them feel silly for thinking like this like are you like this is not a big deal so you stay stationary your back is towards the dog you have your leash and you just kind of keep moving forward and a lot of times the dog will do this kind of thing where they go bump bump and then they go boom and then they
[SPEAKER_00]: So they go, hey, can I stop this for a second?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we don't really react.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just stop because we don't want to choke the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to physically drag the dog, obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we just stop and we give the dog a little pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just kind of keep moving.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times, the dog will go, boom, boom.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they commit, they kind of scurry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right towards you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you got to be careful how much we're winding the dog up to really feed into what they are thinking in their head kind of like a little kid like there's a monster in the home there is oh, no, what are we going to do it's that you're you're really telling them like this is real you should be afraid we're really you're like this is ridiculous let's go and that's what I would do in this situation with this dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, try to try to try to try to think about more like don't feed into don't feed into the problem and that's what I'm seeing here is the dog is gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little the dog is genuinely afraid for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to take away anything from the dog's fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I have seen and obviously this is subjective.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, take this to the grain of salt, but what I have seen with really fearful dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I see this a lot when I worked with wolves.
[SPEAKER_00]: When when we needed to move them into enclosures the more we were like trying to bait them in and talk to them They were like, oh, this is I'm suspicious of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: This kind of like feels the fire and Oftentimes if we're like we're going where assertive we're using our momentum This is what we're doing the dogs like okay, and then they kind of jump to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, try not to
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fuel into, they're going, I can't do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go, oh, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: They go, oh, you really just feel in the fire there sometimes.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, essentially, we just always need to be confident.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, this is what we're supposed to be doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's go and don't give in a minute to think otherwise.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I have seen to work best is the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog may always stop and go wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you go, oh wait, is everything okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you good?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the matter?
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you see?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we fine?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we just coddle to that, they go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they start to elevate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do
[SPEAKER_00]: the blindly and the blind there sometimes where we start, we start really feeding in, like, oh, you know, and again, it'd be different if the dog had been shot in the head or something and they're traumatized and we're, it's so different.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when, when a dog is just going, I don't think I can walk into this room and then we just like, like, we, we, we almost reinforce that where we're like, yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you good?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we good?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're really if you're just like, no, come on, we're going.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times dogs gravitate towards that like leadership role of like assertiveness of just pushing through.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, I've seen be really helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing, you know what I see this a lot in is my clients who can't get their dog into the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they go out to the car and they're like, it's okay, come on, we're gonna get in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're already setting the dog up for failure of like, this is a big deal and I hope you do well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously it's not intentional or malicious.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just in their head as humans, they go, I wanna make this as good experience as possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they make it a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: When really the success I've had, I'll give you the leash, I take it, and I just go, I walk right up, and I just jump in the car, the jog jumps in with me, and people are like, I've been working on this for months, I'm like, yeah, but you've been fueling this anxiety of the dog goes, I don't think I can do this, and you go, you're right, what can I do to help you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And really it's just like, this is what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would just like be really interested to get your immediate feedback on how that works with some of the dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, the goal isn't to take away the stopping, because that's probably not going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: The goal would be to expedite the process to if the dog goes, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: stranger danger or wait a minute I don't want to go through that room.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would just be a quick little nowhere doing this and the dog goes okay fine versus this whole thing because the more that the more that we make it a big deal, everyone has to make it a big deal in order to get the dog in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So think about that when you're training and you're working, the things that we're doing to accomplish our goals at some point either an owner or a handler is going to have to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So think about, think about those steps that we're taking to get the dog, either into a room or into a crate or out of the crate or out of a room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever we're building right now, whatever foundation we're building to get the dog to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of times as trainers we do whatever it takes, but then you have to think whatever we build right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you go to a handler, you go to a foster, you go, however your systems put together, you go, okay, this is how to get the dog into a room.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to get down on all fours and, you know, and it's like that may not be realistic for most people, especially veterans or disabled people or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So really try to like push the dog through these situations as much as you can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, make sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and we can apply that to, I think a lot of different situations.
[SPEAKER_04]: with many, many, many challenges that we face.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and again, I want to be clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: As you're doing this, it's okay to talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to encourage the dog and all that stuff still do that, but just be careful about how much we kind of enabled the dog where they go.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a huge deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we also are like, yeah, when really,
[SPEAKER_00]: the more you make it not a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Typically, you know, it's just like my my reactive dog clients, we go out for a walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: The owner sees another dog and they go do, oh, oh, when they start choking up on the leash, they go, it's okay, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leave it, leave it, and I'm like, you are way more reactive than your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, you're conditioning, you're the trigger, you're doing all the things, you're basically detonating this whole situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: When really, if you were to just put your head straight, loosen your release and take a deep breath and just walk like you on the world, you would, you would, you would be less likely to set the dog up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's move on to the second one, which is three, eight, so triple eights, just a black German shepherd, a growling.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a shorter video.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's probably
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he sounds like it and he acts like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that little snap bark that a lot of times that's like a very frustrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can tail with the tailwag.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great for this is a great video to show people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate using this word.
[SPEAKER_00]: So forgive me, but
[SPEAKER_00]: more of a dominant type of behavior in what I mean by that is is the dog is when you watch this tail it's like the bottom and the base of the tail is erect and it comes straight up and then you get this like almost a kitten like wag like pink pink pink pink pink pink that is a very
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that bark at the end is is what I call blown off steam.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the dog's building you can I mean you can literally see he's puffing up his chest as tails wagging and then he's going Like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean he's just he's um, y'all peeking there and and and so okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just move maybe to the next video with that same dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would assume or maybe not
[SPEAKER_00]: No, so this is, do you want, do you want me to say anything about that or do you want me to just move to three eight nine five three eight nine five, which is a like a stable dog barking and that's Donald Donald, okay, Donald, and then barking at another black German shepherd.
[SPEAKER_00]: The behavior of that black German Shepherd doesn't look like the dog that we just saw in the last video, but now we pulled out more non-reacted.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so with this dog, and again, you know, forgive me, I don't know a lot of context here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to give you what I see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to analyze what I'm seeing so with that dog I think a big thing right here and again I know that you're trying to just get reaction so I understand that but let's just say you know you're out for a walk with this dog
[SPEAKER_00]: I think here is going to be a timing issue more than anything, so as this dog is locked in on the other dog and his two front paws start moving forward and he starts to get loaded and then you see at the end of the leash, he's snapping.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of, I mean, we have to also look at our goals for these situations because most people who have reactive dogs just want neutrality,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that they have the goal of just trying to take this away and changing the dog's full personality.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so here is just a dog who is loading and then barking at a neutral dog mind you, because when it pans over to the black dog, the black German shepherd, the black German shepherd is looking at that dog like dude what's your problem?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't care at all, it seems.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think, in this particular clip, I think timing is really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, when handler has the dog on the left side and the dog is loading, my suggestion is a couple different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be a lot of times what I try to do is I call a dismantlement exercise.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, a dismantlement exercise is exactly how it sounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to
[SPEAKER_00]: bring the dog down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So think about a pot of water on a stove like your cooking pasta and it starts to build the moment you pull it off that heat immediately reduces that boil, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It immediately drops that build.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what I would suggest here is doing what I call a dismantlement exercise, which is extremely helpful for reactive dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I teach this a lot in my seminars, I do, again, you have to look at your goals.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, my goal would be to reduce the build and then reduce and potentially take away the reactivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, again, and we can talk about this later on as we review at the end of the video, at the end of the clips.
[SPEAKER_00]: This, you know, we may not be trying to stop the dog from wanting to bark and wanting to react.
[SPEAKER_00]: That may be unrealistic and unfair, and so you're kind of chasing the tail and never being successful and constantly frustrated, which is a loop that people can get in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here again, like I would be doing an inside turn, so taking your left leg directly turning inside to the dog and redirecting that dog's head towards that fence there in the back.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not walking away from the situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just redirecting the dog's attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is this takes All it does is take body pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't use positive punishment.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't use negative punishment.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't use a positive reinforcement even All you're doing is the dog looks at the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: They start to build you can see it building If you take your left leg and inside turn towards that dog like a 90 like bang and then walk the other way
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of times the dog will decrease that build and then you kind of come back and slowly but surely you are decreasing that drive as the dog builds.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we the opposite is if we allow the dog to look at the other dog,
[SPEAKER_00]: and build and it's basically like tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick bang, and then the dog blows, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you're seeing here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, to be fair to the handler, this is probably all just to see the dog's reaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: So forgive me if forgive me if you know this or this is what you do and I'm not trying to poke holes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that we're trying to get reactions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here again, as the dog is loading, you know, because I've done these before with with training groups and stuff and I'm not trying to isolate the particular handle handler to make them make them look bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that this is for for reaction purposes, so I know that so I'm I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's fault here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as the dog is building and loading, again, just in general, if we can take that inside turn, turn the dog away and then come back and reassess.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's probably five different things that I will throw on a dog in less than 30 seconds just to see what works.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's really been successful with my reactivity training.
[SPEAKER_00]: is I don't just try one thing and then call it a day or try one thing and call it a session.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am actively switching gears, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink trying to figure out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And first thing I do outside of a, of a leave it would be that inside turn to just the, especially for dog owners because they're not professional handlers and a lot of times they have a dog that they're afraid of and they don't really know what to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you say, hey, turn inside to the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: The eyes always will make the dog build.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we can take the dog, the dog's eyes away outside of intact males because a lot of times it's the smell that really gets them riled up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so inside turn here and then having your, having your foundation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to have the skill sets in order to apply here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to have a leave it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or and or a heal command.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I like to do is I give the dog an opportunity to do the right thing, so if I tell the dog heel a lot of times you can get a dog that is on the cusp of reacting but not to stay in that heel position and two things happen is they don't want to get punished for breaking the heels so they make the decision to say you know what I'd rather stay in this position instead of getting punished instead of going after that other dog and
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing is, is it gives a dog a clear opportunity to be successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if he breaks the heel in that position, you can give him a fair correction to say, hey, this is, this is not what we're asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: I asked you to heel and you completely fly it off the hinges.
[SPEAKER_00]: But of course, the dog has to know the behavior before we correct it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so let me ask you this, even when we are some, we are doing reactivity, when we are training with those dogs and we are watching for that initial like puff up.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have to make sure that our energy and we are calm and we are being assertive in that so the dog doesn't feed off of like us anticipating them when we're walking by another dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a question or a statement.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, is that is that is that what I'm.
[SPEAKER_04]: what we should be doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Spot on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're for us to not anticipate the the dog like oh God here comes another dog.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know I've got this reactive boy with me, but I just need to walk confidently like we've got this
[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, doing this every day, you know, even with my clients and navigating life with my own dogs and stuff over the years, there's, you know, there's also this, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's the, there's kind of like this, this road that there's a two road split here where you're out with the dog and you have to really consider genetics and you have to consider what the dog is wired to do rather sometimes the dog is really wired to just be super protective and kind of an a hole.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then other times dogs are just wired and they're insecure on their nervous and they don't really know what to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, meaning some people like that from dogs, the first thing and then sometimes you just get, you know, a dog that's nervous and doesn't really know how to handle the stress and doesn't know how to handle conflict and really likes to combativeness of fighting because it makes them feel a little bit competent.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I guess my point is, is when you're out for a walk with your dog and you, I just try to set people up for success as much as I possibly can.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, ideally it would be yes, being calm, cool and collective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing we were talking about with the other end of the spectrum of a really fearful dog who doesn't want to walk in somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: The more that we kind of bait them along and gaslight them and they go, hey, this is a huge deal, I can't walk through that threshold, I can't walk through that door.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, what we're doing is we're reacting to the emotion of the dog as human beings who love animals and have empathy because all of you obviously do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when the dog puts on the brakes and goes I'm I'm I'm afraid What we do instinctually as humans is we go oh crap you're afraid this makes me feel bad I'm gonna do everything I can to make you feel good That's instinctualed humans especially dog owners and what I have learned over the years is it's okay to have that that's natural And there's a time in a place for that
[SPEAKER_00]: but really it's kind of like that tough love thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with kids is what we really need to do is kind of put on our our like our confident boots and just move forward and just see if we can build confidence with the dog and kind of ignore that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So same thing with a reactive dog when you go out
[SPEAKER_00]: the last thing you want to do is choke up on that leash, talk to the dog and start triggering.
[SPEAKER_00]: You really just want to make it no big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So absolutely, that's what you want to do for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's move on to another video so we don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is 3, 8, 9, 3.
[SPEAKER_00]: So big black German shepherd.
[SPEAKER_00]: On leash looking at another dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming the other dog is the reactive one because this dog looks pretty chill Okay I think that's Donald again Okay, so do you know what video I'm talking about?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, so go to the 15 Go to the we've already kind of fount over him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not far
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go to the 15 second mark where the dog is building and is in front of the handler, and the handler is, okay, do you know what I'm talking about?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay, so that's when that's got her and we put a herm springer on gunner.
[SPEAKER_04]: In this video.
[SPEAKER_00]: A prong collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the other reason why I just want to clarify is herm springer makes a lot of different products.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we put a prong color.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the dog is at the 15 second mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is kind of stacked looks really like a mountain wall to be honest at faces like very slender.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when the dog is stacked forward and what the handlers doing is is backing up and in that situation what I would do is as the dog is locking so picture this in that 15 16 second mark the dog is locked in handlers starts walking backwards and what I and I can't I can't really hear let me just see if I can hear something here and before I
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and again, I don't hear anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So forgive me if I'm missing something, but what I would do is I would give the dog a verbal cue.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when the dog goes, hey, there's a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm jacked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is loading.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say the dog reacts at a 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is loading.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, two, three, four, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're stacking up.
[SPEAKER_00]: The breathing may start to change and get more, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know adrenaline or cortisol just kind of building like I'm about to do something here, but to react.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I would do from a handler's perspective is when you're drawing back so the dogs in front of you handler starts drawing back and walking backwards, I would give the dog a command because this is an opportunity to say that so again we're fighting I shouldn't say fighting, but we are combating instinct.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and again, I know that we talked about a lot of these males are intact and they went through you guys went through some sort of sickness and so a lot of the dogs didn't get the exposure and the socialization and all that stuff so I understand that but here what we really want to do is the dog instinctually is going, hey, there's another male or there's another intact male or there's another whatever the dog is locked in on something we start walking backwards so instead of pulling the dog back and
[SPEAKER_00]: that because that can create some sort of agitation to this is what we do in police work often, where we agitate the dog, we basically kind of rev them up with back pressure, and so we have to be careful when we are walking backwards with the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, I would give the dog an opportunity to be successful in a skill set here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would say whatever the dog's name is, Donald, whatever, Donald come, Donald here, whatever, and the same thing I was talking about
[SPEAKER_00]: to do the right thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of times with reactive dogs, we're just putting out fires, but that's, I want you to be more proactive here, instead of reactive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you have a reactive dog, a lot of people think of, how do I stop the reaction?
[SPEAKER_00]: But as trainers and behaviors or whoever's in the room, our goal is to actually figure out why this is happening and try to prevent it from happening in the first place.
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes, again, it's inevitable, we are suppressing dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be a jerk, and I want to bark and react, because I'm big and bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're never going to say, no, you're not.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can neuter him, probably not going to help.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it doesn't, that stuff doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes dogs just instinctually in personality-wise, they just get like this, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're driving.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we talked about, we've introduced some sort of European, I think, check.
[SPEAKER_00]: working line into the breeding protocol, so that obviously will bring that to the table, police and working dogs, they love that, they want the confidence, they want the pushiness, they want that, but sometimes we also have to match that, these aren't pet lines really, they're not as sensitive if you will.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here I would say Donald Cum and then if he didn't come, I would correct him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of pulling him back and what the handlers doing is basically saying hey knock it off, right, which is totally okay to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I would do is I would draw back Donald Cum and if he doesn't, it would be a pop on the collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just pulling him back and saying, Hey, look over here instead.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's more structured.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more direct.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's more fair to the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if we were to correct him, what are we correcting him for in this circumstance?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we correcting him for barking?
[SPEAKER_00]: We could.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would more or less be proactive here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He stops.
[SPEAKER_00]: He loads.
[SPEAKER_00]: I walk backwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Donald come.
[SPEAKER_00]: Donald goes, Oh, I know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want food.
[SPEAKER_00]: He turns around.
[SPEAKER_00]: He comes to the handler bang.
[SPEAKER_00]: We paid the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we didn't correct and we avoided a, you know, a reaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so just give the dog more clarity.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're backing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is locked and loaded and if we kind of just, and so again, we're pulling, if you look at the 16 second mark specifically, handlers arm is on the leash, pulling the dog back.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times, especially with intact young males, that kind of works them up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They detonate a little bit there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get kind of, they're excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, okay, this is pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, they kind of go into this fight-y type thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my recommendation there is give the dog an opportunity to be successful, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want you to do this behavior, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the dog does it, we pay him, we move on, all good.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they don't, a clear, clean, fair correction because the dog didn't come, and the dog has worked on comforts in six months, he knows recall.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes sense to correct them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're not correcting him for reacting or loading.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're correcting him because he didn't do a recall that he's worked on since he was a puppy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's fair and clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Any questions on what I was just talking about?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't do you have any questions?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, just it all makes some sense to us.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do have questions just a real quick question before I forget about like the herm springer
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, have you ever successfully been able to transition a reactive dog off of a sperm sprigger?
[SPEAKER_04]: And if so, well, it's your process.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good question.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to define that a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what you're asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me just answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we're when we're using equipment on dogs, specifically a prong color, a prong color,
[SPEAKER_00]: is, it wears many, many, many hats, it's great for communication, it's great for control, it's safer than letting the dog choke out, it's safer, therefore it corrects the dog clearly so we can disrupt behaviors a lot easier and we can make things clearer for the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the idea is, we really are enforcing behaviors, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So for an example, we ask a dog to sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know so here's the here's the protocol here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We asked the dog to sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know to behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog doesn't sit because there's a squirrel in the tree.
[SPEAKER_00]: We correct the dog with the prom caller.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say for an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog sits right because he goes so two things he goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that was that was uncomfortable or hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot or because it depends on the dog some dogs are sensitive where.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they just need an extra little bit more pressure or whatever, but in a reactive dog, for an example, the dog comes out and they start reacting, they start freaking out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really complex thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our objective really is to...
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's two routes here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we want to behave your modification if we can, which means basically we get to a point where we change the way the dog internally thinks and feels emotionally about the other dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there is a reality that's not gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you have a dog that is reactive towards other dogs, there's just nothing you can do to change that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then we lean on obedience, so we lean on obedience to control these environments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Heal, leave it, those are two big things that we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we ask you to heal, you can't break your heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we tell you to leave it, you can't bark.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are thresholds that dogs have, and a lot of those thresholds are predicated off of natural and instinctual drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if a dog, again, for an example, is acting like a jerk because they're bored, or because maybe they're insecure, a lot of times we can use obedience and we can use it leave it and disrupt the behavior or in most cases to be on a suppressed behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: That I want to do something, but we don't allow them to...
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is the reality of dog training.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that that's kind of a buzzword in the dog training world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, suppressions this nasty word.
[SPEAKER_00]: When in reality we're suppressing dogs all day, we put them on a lease, we're suppressing, we put them in a crate, we're suppressing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't give them enough food.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to do something, we don't allow them, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, that's how life is.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's defining suppression is the dog wants to do something, we don't allow them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on a leash, they want to run that way, we say no, suppression, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's natural.
[SPEAKER_00]: It happens every day, almost every second with the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my point is is when we're out with a dog, we can tell them to leave it and they go you know what the juice isn't worth the squeeze here I don't want to react.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to get corrected and I love food So I'd rather just take the the latter here and get the food and not react But there are certain dogs who they're drive pushes through all that noise, right so my dog Burley perfect example He's a South African massive aka a boreball one of the most protected dog breeds in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can
[SPEAKER_00]: Ask him to do like, and I have a Dutch Shepherd, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so with her, she wants to listen to me, because she just wants to be obedient, and she wants to play, and she knows that if she listens to me, she gets what she wants, which is plain tug or food or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she doesn't have that instinctual drive pushing against her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she doesn't have this angel and devil on both shoulders that some dogs do, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's going, all listen to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fine, no problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though I want to go get the ball, I want to get the Frisbee.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just let me know Dad when I can release you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Burling on the other hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once his instinctual instincts kick in of this super protective drive, drivey dog, I can down him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can sit him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can heal him and he'll do all those things to a certain point.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and before I would just say years ago and I've I've matured and learned as a as a as a dog trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as a constant, you know, student of everything that there's just certain dogs where you just have to sometimes take the higher road here and go, what do we work here?
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we're correct, my point is, is when we're correcting a dog, the prom collar sometimes is a safer option to have out to control the dog, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I go out with Burley and he wants to go,
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a 170 pound low rider of a 100% muscle.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not an ounce of fat on him.
[SPEAKER_00]: His arms are bigger than mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: His head's bigger than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's strong.
[SPEAKER_00]: When he wants to go, he's going to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm out there with a slip leash or a flat collar, God forbid a harness, I'm screwed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the question doesn't...
[SPEAKER_00]: the question isn't why are we reacting it's very clear this is a really reactive dog that really shouldn't be walking around in suburbia regardless of how how professional and how much experience I have with reactive dogs and no matter how well-trained he is I can't I can't push against his grain enough in his genetics and his DNA to say you shouldn't the person who's wearing the hoodie and the earphones who's going out for a walk he's going danger danger danger and I'm hey hey well and he's reacting and
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, if I have a prawn collar, I can handle him safer because that a piece of equipment is safer for him because I'm not choking himself out with, you know, a leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in that case, I'm able to maneuver him safer.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, it's different from correcting a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: When he pulls at the end of the leash with a prawn collar, I'm not correcting him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm handling him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Meaning, the correction is the leash is nice and loose and the snap happens, bang.
[SPEAKER_00]: the snap happens bang so in that last video when we asked Donald to come and he doesn't you have he's not pulling at the end of the leash you can snap the prong get his attention the dog comes back so my point is is the prong collar kind of has different hats to put in how you're wearing it if i was going to go out with my with my mastiff and i thought he was going to react for whatever reason i would wear the prong so i can handle him safer and have more control
[SPEAKER_00]: it wouldn't be necessarily the correct him because there's also a potential that the correction from a dog like that who is instinctually saying that if we don't if way and he's not trying to attack this person he needs to get to this person so some dogs will do this too is I smell another dog these shepherds are are very nose oriented I need to go smell this other dog and and they're it's a classic leash reactivity again the dog is barking we let the dog go up to the other dog they sniff each other hackles come up they walk away maybe they fight but maybe
[SPEAKER_00]: So the prom collar correction in your situation for pretty much every day obedience is we want the dog to understand like we don't want to depend on the equipment but there's a gray area with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, when I'm using the prom collar to control my 200 close to 200 you know leaning getting bigger
[SPEAKER_00]: dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I have the prong collar, sometimes it's just because if you want to go over here and sniff and I say, heal and he goes, yeah, hold on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sniffing something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to drag him away with a slip because it's just going to be choking himself out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to use the prong collar because it's safer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm using it in a different way with you guys and most people with obedience, we're using the prong collar as a clear correction.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so ideally,
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're using the prong collar and you're seeing results and the dog under stands it, why would we want to take it off?
[SPEAKER_00]: And in some cases, it's for formality of competition, or looks, or branding, or whatever, and I understand that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to kind of maneuver these things, but the idea would be the dog understands what we're asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I tell you to sit, you sit, if I tell you to down, you down, if I tell you to heal, you heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most dogs who go through training, if they're really good, 95% of the time they will do all of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I always ask the question of like, why, why, why shelf the prom collar?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's like, do I, hey, man, I've been a really good driver.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I have to wear the seat belt?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, every time you go out, you're not in an accident, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so maybe you might say, I don't want to wear a seat belt.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, yeah, but if you do need it, it's really nice to have as a safety precaution.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to answer your question, ultimately we want the dog to listen to us because they understand the behavior and they don't want to get in trouble and they're obedient and they listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to also understand that when we're giving this dog off to other people, there's also a chance that these aren't professional dog trainers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Their timing isn't going to be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're they're sensitive understanding dog behavior isn't going to be good, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sometimes when you get a really big reactive dog instinctually because they're intact in their shepherds and they're a drivey and they're bored
[SPEAKER_00]: having a prom collar on board to just be able to diverge the dog much much easier instead of pulling the dog back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's this kind of a loaded question.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's tough to answer, but ideally you want the dog to listen to you because you asked and they understand the behavior, but there is the reality of a dog just being like, oh, I know what you asked.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not doing it, so screw you, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is that, like there's a hundred percent that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you guys are working with, you guys are working a lot with intact male, some infused working line German shepherds, and so you're going to see a lot of, oh, I heard you, but,
[SPEAKER_00]: make me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I heard you.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you going to do about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're going to see a lot of that because their instincts are kind of peeking through this roof of, hey, no, no, it's like this, and they can't help it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then you have to combat that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's, it's a tricky game, but ideally, think about this is what I tell my clients.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I maybe should have just answered with this 30 second answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be think about the use, think about the usage.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to use the prong collar less than anything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're out with your dog, can you use the prong collar three or four times?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just getting the dog's attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you do it with a flat, probably?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it safe?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it as safe?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it as effective?
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to kind of ask yourself, like, what's the goal?
[SPEAKER_00]: And what would be the point of removing the prong collar if it is effective and helping your training?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like, you know, picking your battles.
[SPEAKER_00]: We take the prom collar off maybe because for aesthetics and, you know, we're trying to place these dogs into working homes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, if you're working, if you have a hundred pound German shepherd that is intact and can be a little bit reactive and intense and you have a veteran who maybe is disabled or not, you know, not a strong human being and you put them on a harness, you know, there's temperments for that, but if you have a dog
[SPEAKER_00]: can kind of fly off the rails sometimes, and it could be unexpected, I think the more responsible thing to do is just send the dog away with the prom collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, let's move on to 3902.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a black German shepherd walking past like the more stable looking dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we did really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: We paid the dog for sitting.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: The black German shepherd ears back tails wagging looks really happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a nice confident walk there from that dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really not caring about much.
[SPEAKER_00]: really love in the handler and um so that looks good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have anything to say there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know about the brain if you're a stranger in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's a stranger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not sure, but it was a black looking German shepherd pass.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that was like the one of our reactive dogs after we put the herbs springer on them on them.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was almost like the communication became very clear.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the moment we introduce that equipment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, listen, sometimes dogs like that's the beauty of the prawn collar is it makes things really clear, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's more effective and it's it's frankly safer because you're using less pressure, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of yarning on the dog on a flat or a dominant dog collar or harness or a prong or a flat collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just snap the prong collar once and the dog's like, oh, that's what you want it, why didn't you say so?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's there's there's a lot of variances to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're moving to three eight nine two.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like the same dogs that are walking extremely neutral towards each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Handlers are just kind of going back and forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the savourler looking dog is barking and and getting worked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's 3892 video.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, you know, I could share my screen on my phone, but you guys can't all see my screen and then be, I'm just trying to react to these as easiest as possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, if you're referencing that video at the 8 second mark when the, so basically for those of you can't see the video, the dog is pulling past the handler, handler has two hands on the leash, basically holding on at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in these situations, again, we want to be proactive instead of reactive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we turn, we come around with the dog at the 7 second mark, the dog breaks the heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, I would be correcting for breaking the heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would also be fairly appropriate to just tell the dog, hey, leave it, knock it off.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're in a heel, the other dog is passive, and the dog just starts being vocal.
[SPEAKER_00]: This commitment from this dog is very,
[SPEAKER_00]: to me is uncommittal.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog really isn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can tell by the rhythm of the bark.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can tell the dog's head positioning.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the dog's barking, looking back at the handler, barking, it's kind of air snapping, just frustration, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is frustrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't really know what to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in these situations, I would say a dog like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you guys play a lot of tug with these shepherds?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that for a reason?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we don't want we want to be able to incorporate tug at if we need them to open doors or open drawers or so tub needs to be very a very delicate almost a command for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha, no worries.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so as you're as you're moving again, looking at that video, the dog breaks the heel at eight.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, forgive me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you with the handlers are saying or doing, but it just kind of looks like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, route for a walk and it may be just implied when you're on the leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're in a heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure, but again, I would really be teaching the dog you are breaking your heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's step one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an appropriate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shouldn't do that correction for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then also, when the dog is barking, it would be more of a hay leave it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're applying two different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the dog already broke the heel, and then they start barking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you can catch the dog in the moment that they break the heel before they bark, it would just be a correction for breaking the heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if the dog flies out of the, because it happens in seconds too, sometimes, and that's the case here.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the dog flies at the end of the leash and then starts barking, sometimes you can just say, hey, leave it and then re-address the heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like very, very broken up, right, compartmentalized.
[SPEAKER_00]: This behavior means this, this behavior means this and you're applying these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that I would be doing, which will be really helpful for you guys is a tune-up or I call it a red light green light.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say in this situation you have two dogs, they're getting ready to pass and you're basically testing one reactive dog to see if they're going to react.
[SPEAKER_00]: First thing I would be doing is looking for engagement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Play in some sort of engagement game here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of just hauling off after this other dog and walking, which is not terrible to do, because it's reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're working on this, I would, so handlers walking with the dog and the left side, I would just slow down and stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: See if the dog stops with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the dog doesn't stop with you, that's an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to know anything else about the dog's reactivity or the dog's behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're out with the dog, and you're trying to get the dog to listen to you, the first thing you do in the first way you can tell that is you go out for a walk you stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the dog just keeps moving.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you need to create engagement because right here it looks like the dog is really disengaged and that's where you're running into issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is searching kind of like this search game or his eyes are looking for the other dog instead of up at the handler and that's for many different reasons, but that's something I would do here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: So walk forward with the dog, put your brakes on.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the dog keeps going, don't worry.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: End it right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to worry about reactivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to worry about the behavior of the dog or the confidence of the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog needs to be committed to the handler and engage with the handler.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the best way to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I call it a red light green light.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're walking at a normal pace.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going out and you stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the dog keeps going,
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially if we're if we're getting service dogs in order and we're getting dogs that we they need High levels of obedience and engagement and so Don't even worry it, you know, that's low hanging fruit because again, I would be proactive here So you would say hey, Tom, how do we stop this dogs reactivity because he's reacting on the leash?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you would assume I'm going to tackle the barking and the lunging because that's the symptom, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem is and the reason why this is happening is because the dog is searching for a problem without looking at the handler for anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if the handler were to stop, there's a good chance the dog is just going to keep flying by.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something I call it a tune up as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes I'll tune a dog up by just going back and forth to get the dog's attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure the dog pays attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I go one way and you don't pop, if I go the other way and you don't pop, and I really just get the dog to tune up with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they go.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then everything else kind of disappears around them because they're so focused on the handler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: So any, please.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at that, if you look at that video, the 3892, and you look at, when we pass, let's just say the second time at the 7 second mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is not engaged with the handler.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is on the leash next to the handler, but looking at the other dog, and that's an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the dog is so the dog should be so right there if I would have stopped and my dog kept going This is a much deeper problem of engagement
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just if, you know, again, you get out of dog, there's no other distractions, you ask the dog to heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: You walk forward, the dog, and then you stop and the dog just keeps going.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's already step one because there's holes in the heal and there's holes in your engagement.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're really going to, you're really going on a walk with half of your armor that you really should have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if somebody says, hey, my dog's reactive on the leash, I'd say put your dog in the leash, walk 10 steps and stop, see what they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they keep going, that's the first thing I work on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, your dog doesn't, your dog is not paying attention to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog is looking for other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you have an intact male going out and seeing all these other big things, you know, whether it's intact females or males, they're searching for other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're trapped live, you might as well just drop the leash.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I would really really really like and again, guys, you know, everything that I'm saying isn't going to be the reason why these are it's it's a dog trading as you guys know is an accumulation of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like anything else in life, and rather you're a good doctor, you're a good martial artist, you're a good chef.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not it's not a binary black and white thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a combination of
[SPEAKER_00]: if this needs more this i'm going to add it if this needs to take away this i'm going to add i need to be able to think on my feet on the fly to get the result that i need to so it's not going to be oh well we're going to stop the reaction by just stopping when and if the dog doesn't does just part of it it's it's working on your leash handling it's working on engagement making sure that the dog is is cares that you're there
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, 3880, so it's another video with a black German shepherd, um, the dog is locked in, ears are up, we're on leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, perfect example.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, two seconds in and the dog is already going, owner, or handler, uh, don't it, just go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's, it's an immediate, it's an immediate, um, late, where laser focused on this, on,
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, being proactive, starting that video.
[SPEAKER_00]: dog is locked in and again guys I know that we're doing this for demonstration purposes but this is this is normal this is what would happen with a normal dog owner this is what would happen we'd basically the dog would pull us into a situation and this is exactly how it would play out so the dog's on a dominant dog collar and or aka slip slip collar the dog is locked and loaded and you can tell the dog's behavior
[SPEAKER_00]: So listen at the four second mark, the dog is pulling on the leash and listen to what happens when we pull the dog away.
[SPEAKER_00]: boom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as we start applying pressure to the dog, the dog gets more agitated.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog gets more vocal, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing I was talking about earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're pulling away instead of telling the dog to heal or recalling the dog in back pedaling, we're going to, we're going to agitate the dog more likely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just be careful of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the my suggestion here guys, equipment change, excuse me, would be getting, I would much rather use a nicely fitted slip on on, you know, just for this dog's sake than the, the dominant dog metal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason, yeah, the reason is is because if you're looking at this
[SPEAKER_00]: That collar is it should be behind the dogs ears, but but dominant dog collars and chains.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't stay in place obviously because they're heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's great for potty breaks and just in and out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of an everyday wear.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, when you're training the position of the collar matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: So right now that collar is way down on the dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lairnix basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not where it needs to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not high in tight.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you're basically using a harness there, you're grabbing the dog like this and you're pulling the dog back.
[SPEAKER_00]: you want that right behind the dog's ears, and basically manipulating where that head goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the goal is is to use way less pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you take the leash and you just use this and it just turns their head, like horsemanship a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's just something I would recommend.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have my suggestion is, and you don't have to get them from us, but any means, but get a spring-loaded slip collar or a slip leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a spring-loaded is great because it keeps the collar and the leash in position.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's got a little spring on it, so when you slide it down, so a lot of people will use like the cloth or the leather stoppers, and of course they just, they come down and then the slip.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I put a spring-loaded slip leash or a spring-loaded dominant dog collar on a dog,
[SPEAKER_00]: It just stays right up, like even if you drop it, it just stays right behind the ears, like the slip just stays right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's something I would highly recommend.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's totally okay to use the slips.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you feel more comfortable using them for some of the trainers, it's the same thing except it's safer and more effective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because right now you're putting a lot of pressure on that dog's throat, and you want to put pressure on the dog's muscles right behind the ears.
[SPEAKER_00]: especially when they're pushed I mean that dog is putting all of his pressure straight basically just by the little tiny pieces of skin tissue on his throat and that's and that also can create agitation because then he can't breathe good and he start cutting him off and he starts to get worked up right so so good leave it call out here
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would I would turn here so instead of letting the dog kind of real out from us in front of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: So meaning like if you were to have a flexi and the dog just, you know, out in front of us, think about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is really in front of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would turn and say dog heel and then pop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right here what we're doing is we're letting the dog build.
[SPEAKER_00]: We say leave it and again, we're not correcting we're agitating and pulling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, the collar doesn't help because you want to do, for an example, look at this Martin Gail right here.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a herm springer.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is herm springer as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a Martin Gail collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we have the leash here, right now with that dog's doing is it's pulling like this, it's getting taught right here and now we're pulling the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: pulling the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, a correction.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you say handler says leave it and the dog says, nope, what you're going to do is you're going to take this and you're going to snap, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to, but, but with your positioning of this collar because it's so low, it's basically in the dog's chest.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so low, you're not going to do anything, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So just
[SPEAKER_00]: When you hit play on the 380, the dog is locked and loaded, looking at that other dog, the collar and the leash are tight.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then as soon as we say leave it, we drag the dog out of there, which doesn't correct the behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it would be, it would be snap, snap, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, having a different equipment would be really helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: OK.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK. Let's move on.
[SPEAKER_00]: 3887.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have two dogs out in the driveway there by the statues, black dogs in a sit-stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I reckon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other dog is just the other black dog is walking by really nicely.
[SPEAKER_00]: That looks good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dog gets,
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so I would just say this one big thing here.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the 3887 video.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing I would say here is it looks to me and I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ignorant here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks to me like we put the black dog in a sit and we heal the other black dog by.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Black dog goes by.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog break.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, the dog broke the sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that correct?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you see that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we can't, we can't, but I think in the video that you're talking about, yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Donald broke a set.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when Donald breaks this sit, we should we should correct him and put him back into a sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is where you get big, intelligent, pushy, drivey, you know, basically 18-year-old college kids out.
[SPEAKER_00]: When they, when we say, hey, you do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they go, do I have to?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is a, this is, this is, this is, but you know, it could be a big deal, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: like it could be a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you got to make sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, we are trying to, and all we're trying to do here, guys, is be clear with the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear expectations, clear boundaries.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want the dog to succeed.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want the dog to know exactly what we're saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when the dog gets up,
[SPEAKER_00]: Just let me let me I'm gonna show it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna try to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know some of you can't see this, but maybe some of you can, but if you see here When the dog gets up right here, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So can some of you see this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or no?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so look look here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dogs in the sit, the dog in the left, maybe your right is in a sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog walks by distraction, the dog goes, I'm out of my sit, bang.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right there is an issue, like this, that should be right back into a sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and again, demonstration purposes, of course, but
[SPEAKER_00]: You know to me when a when a dog was oh, I'm getting out of this sit and I'm looking like that's when we immediately hold the dog accountable Nope back into a sit because what because that's just basic obedience forget the other dog forget the reactivity forget the German Shepherd We have a golden retriever that we're teaching how to be a service dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: We asked the dog to sit Car goes by thank they get out of their sit and they're looking around like what was that?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an issue back into a sit Like when they need to be held accountable in those situations So the moment they get out of that sit
[SPEAKER_00]: Correction.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correction.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and it gets, guys, correction comes in many different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: The three biggest ones are verbal, physical, and body, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could either say, at and the dog might go, oh my bad, you don't have to touch the leash, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And all, you just, at, that's a verbal correction.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you give a dog, but body pressure, you push into the dog, they put, they go back into a sit, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's the leash pressure, you just pop the leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: At, and sometimes I do all three at, at once, at, at, at, bang, there's like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The three types of correction were verbal, verbal, body, and leash, I would say, to make it easy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, and leash, got you, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have, let me just go back here to see what dog we have, because you say it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gunners out, 389-1, and now put the hermster on him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we put the hermster on him, we walk by Donald, we walk by Donald, we bring Donald back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yep, see to me that's just dogs being dogs, you know, and so let me just show you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this helpful if I just flip the screen to show you guys a couple things?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, let me show you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here, when we,
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we come back this way, okay, here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So see this dog here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you see this?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this dog's about the hop and puff and bark a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, see the topness on this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we want to not do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: correct that before it happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, or I'll show you in a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: So see how he self-corrected on the collar and then came back and then we used the verbal leave it after.
[SPEAKER_00]: So okay, so what you want to do is if a dog gets taught on the leash like that, you have to you have to go towards the dog and then pop.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and again, if we stop they stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all engagement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a lot of times you can negate a lot of reactivity on the leash by just playing a fun game with the dog because right now we're basically going out and we're testing it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to bark?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're really putting the dog into a considering we're setting the dogs up for failure.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're doing pretty dang good, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we're not really, yeah, we're not really trying to
[SPEAKER_00]: trying to set them up for success here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was a big thing, okay, let me move on to next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just going to pick a couple things out on each video to help you guys out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we have out, and these two of our, let me see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'll just start this video with Skipper.
[SPEAKER_04]: Skipper, and Gunner walking next to our reactive boys.
[SPEAKER_04]: So reactive boys, that was, yeah, that was our first one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your buddy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, again, the prom collar is going to reduce a lot of that pulling in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, I think it's just, okay, where the heck was I, let me just go over a couple more.
[SPEAKER_00]: What questions do you guys have?
[SPEAKER_04]: I asked you guys have any questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, I think you went over three, you went over like everything, um, do you today?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think you've went over everything that we were, we were questioning already.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you made, put things into a lot of perspective for us, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think just, I think a lot of the, the videos are going to be, you know, repetitive stuff, but just, it is, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, get do more engagement exercises before you enter in reality, so before you go out and see other dogs and stuff, I would just get into some engagement exercises and a lot of times I just do a little like just little turns, so I come out with a dog and I turn and I go the other way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I turn and go the other way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, when I'm turning, I usually will say a verbal command like heal or let's go, depending on what your heal looks like, because everyone's heal is different, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a competitive heal and blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I would do is I would just turn and say, let's go or heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the dog doesn't, so meaning you're out with the dog, you turn, say, let's go, they keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Correction.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then you keep walking the other way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they follow along, obviously, because, oh, what was that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you turn again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a lot of times it takes two to three little corrections.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you turn, and they right with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You turn, right with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You turn, right with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of a sudden, they're like, I'm going to pay attention to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we use our durational markers.
[SPEAKER_00]: We use our food.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're paying the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're really letting them know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the essence of dog training, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do more of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do less of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: and once the dog is behaving well we're rewarding them and then you're moving away from the corrections you're moving away with the leash you're moving away from the prong collar you're moving away from all that stuff because we're teaching the dog so that's something i would really heavily do when you're out is just getting the dog to work um use utilizing again when you're going to use any type of like slip or dominant dog
[SPEAKER_00]: it would be advantageous and truthfully safer for the dogs for you guys to be using well-fit slips with spring-loaded stoppers or a complete slip leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only downside to a slip leash is if you have a really hard polar,
[SPEAKER_00]: and they catch your off guard, it's, you know, they can bring you for a ride.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just like the dominant dogs, because the difference would be your regular six-foot leather training leash is hooked up to the dominant dog and it gives you more advantage.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you use like a four-foot slip leash on a big headed dog, it turns the slip leash into like three feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: and when they want to pull and they want to go, sometimes they can take advantage of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Science physics there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just be mindful of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, it sounds like you guys have a lot of good opportunities, and I think if you just start changing some of those things we talked about,
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll see pretty good results.
[SPEAKER_00]: The stop and goes is huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Going out with any dog you have in your kennel and stopping and seeing if they come with you and seeing if they stop with you and if they don't, that's a, so get them out, give them a break, sniff, pee, poop, whatever, and then heal, walk forward, stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they keep going, that's an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: You gotta work on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the out and need to go, we need to backtrack and then work on that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so Tom, what we're doing
[SPEAKER_05]: what we're going to do is basically breaking them from prey drive into the pack drive where they're listening to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we just want we just a lot of these and it, you know, it's it's kind of stinks that you can't use the tugs because obviously like that's what we would do with these drivey dogs because a lot of times they would just be screwed the other dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got the tug.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, what you're trying to do is you're trying to make it more about you guys and less about because right now what I'm seeing is the dogs are going out and they're just all they're interested in
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't, they're not looking up much.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not engaged much.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not turning directions.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just going in like these little cycles.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would just, I would be turning directions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be cutting corners.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be doing inside turns.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be doing outside turns.
[SPEAKER_00]: Making sure the dog is engaged in the handler and not looking for something to react to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and what I'll do is I have the recording of this conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can I can send it to you all if you want.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that'd be great.
[SPEAKER_04]: That'd be awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That'd be so fabulous.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're welcome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, thank you for your time today.
[SPEAKER_04]: They really appreciate you and it's just been so helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah you're welcome and my pleasure just let me know you know if there's anything else I can do for you guys in the future I'd love to help out and you know just keep guys are doing a great job just you know tune up a couple things and you know react reactive drivey intact males are
[SPEAKER_00]: a no joke doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter if you've been training dogs your whole life.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's they're, you know, they make you feel like a novice real quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and for me, too, I mean, I have one upstairs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's he's a handful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just, it makes you a better dog trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It helps you learn and, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just try to learn from all that stuff and just mess around with stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, just change directions, make, make training more fun between you guys and the dog and and really try to make it about you instead of the other the other surrounding things, especially with shepherds because they, you know, they work really hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can get them on like, you know, a good good beef liver or something where they're just like obsessed with what you're doing, everything else will start to wash away.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can start to sensitizing things faster.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much, Tom.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a good day.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: You as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.