2025 Week 12 TNF and Early Games Preview

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're all thrilled to have a little more Davis Mills in our life. I'm Greg Rosenthal and I'm here on the week twelve preview show with Patrick Claybonn and Jordan rod Reeg. And it's a little different because we haven't previewed TNF yet and so that's where we get to see mister Hills.

00:00:23
Speaker 2: I'm glad I get to be here to talk about T and L.

00:00:26
Speaker 1: Yes, I just realized that we didn't want to mess with we you know, we're we always miss you. On QB Island Day, it's going to be a revenge game for some of the quarterbacks that didn't make it. Spoiler alert, Jared Goff kicked off for the very first time. Actually, I was thinking about it. He was on from day one till till now.

00:00:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like Jalen Carter himself.

00:00:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, leasing his property there to Jordan Love.

00:00:51
Speaker 1: It's like, just if you just gave us like a little more in the in the seven different reality shows that you've been in your life, maybe.

00:00:57
Speaker 4: Maybe you would have stayed.

00:00:58
Speaker 2: That's a rough one for Jared and I know why.

00:01:00
Speaker 3: I'm taking shots, I don't know either are you feeling are you well?

00:01:04
Speaker 4: I'm so well feeling good.

00:01:05
Speaker 2: Greg's doing great, and you know who else is doing great?

00:01:07
Speaker 5: People who get a chance to watch Thursday night football, as I get a chance to talk about Thursday football on this program for the first time this season. The Buffalo Bills are six point favorites on the road at.

00:01:18
Speaker 2: Houston taking on Davis Mills, Greg Rosenthal.

00:01:22
Speaker 5: And the Houston Texans, and you know they're great defense in great defense is still something that's important. So it's like vegetables, which al Michaels does not eat. Heat and Kirk Rbstreet are on the call. How do you see Davis Mills pulling this off again?

00:01:37
Speaker 2: Greg?

00:01:39
Speaker 1: That is such a strange thing, how al Michaels doesn't eat vegetables and he's still going so strong. I have a friend who's actually was like a pretty frequent caddy of al Michaels up at Riviera. I'm not allowed to.

00:01:53
Speaker 4: Tell the story. Little thiees, little.

00:01:56
Speaker 3: Teas there, Arizona State Sun Devil.

00:01:58
Speaker 4: That's right, Davis Mills. Where did he go to college?

00:02:01
Speaker 1: I don't know, but he's been in the NFL the whole time. With Nico Collins, and maybe that is partly why they're their connection is so great. Last week, it wasn't even him spamming Nico Collins. It was very efficient every throw he had to Nico Collins, and it's been great to see him going down the field. Davis Mills like, I'm not trying to make him into more than he's not, but he's what you want out of a backup quarterback. It was just someone that just goes for it. And he has had four or five, six, seven, like really impressive throws each week along with the ones where he looks like a backup. In those two games, they've been a normal offense. It's all we've asked for from the Texans this season. Fourteenth in epapri play throwing the ball, twenty first running the ball. And this would be a game, Jordan, you would anticipate they need to run the ball since the Bills are maybe the number one run funnel in the entire NFL. Still still that's a fantasy football term. Yes, you know, they're still one of the best pass defenses in the league and thirtieth right now in the run defense according.

00:03:01
Speaker 4: To the DVOA.

00:03:02
Speaker 3: Yes, to your point on Davis Mills yes, he does move the ball once per half, seems like, and that's important because he does it in the time that it matters. They move the ball in their opening script last week and also at the end when they needed to set up a game winning field goal. These are part of this is part of why his throws to Nico Collins look so efficient is because they're happening in the most important moments of the game, either when they need to stay get ahead and stay ahead. They didn't last week because they missed the they missed they turned it over on down with the goal line. But stay in there a plus plan to set up Davis Mills for more success and this run game the way that it needs to go and at the end when they need to make up for all the other stuff they didn't do in the middle of the game. This Texans defense, though, has been to me the story of this team, and it's had to be. And against Josh Allen and where are Josh Allen's receivers. It's Gabe Davis in a resurgence right. Khalil Shakier even has missed pract just with a personal issue to start the week. Curtis Samuel not there, Kean Coleman has been on and off the field with disciplinary issues. I'm this is a you can't be missing this many guys going against the Texans defense that is this aggressive and assertive playing on the ball.

00:04:19
Speaker 1: And just to close that circle there, we do have the injury report and I believe.

00:04:24
Speaker 3: It's about a mile long.

00:04:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that Shakir at this point, like we don't know, they haven't given a status, but he didn't practice for three straight days.

00:04:34
Speaker 4: For personal reasons. It's usually a sign you're not going to play.

00:04:37
Speaker 5: Yeah, And you know, tracking the Coleman situation over the course of the past couple of weeks, I really think if they get everything figured out, if it's purely disciplinary, then this is a week that where they need him on a short week where everybody else just played a football game, and you have an opportunity to have that chance to come in a little bit fresh against the defense where it's it's tough for good receiving group to get separation against this Houston Tech Houston Texans secondary. And for all the celebration for the Tyrrell Shaver's experience last week, it truly was like to go back and look at the end zone angle of his touchdown reception, eleven guys watching Josh Allen for way too long and actually forgetting about him where they need separation. They're gonna need guys to make it can't And I say this every single week and I'm wrong every single week. It can't all be Josh. Clearly, it can all be Josh.

00:05:28
Speaker 2: He can do it.

00:05:28
Speaker 5: He's gonna run for seventy five yards in the second half by himself to win this game. But where earlier in the season, the Houston Texans were given a CJ. Stroud average time to throw around two point seven seconds.

00:05:41
Speaker 2: It got rough.

00:05:41
Speaker 5: It got better towards the end when Stroud got hurt because he actually got hurt scrambling. But they've been better for Davis Mills. If they can keep up that level of meh that they've been on the offensive line, then this team, just based on the defense, can scare people, including Buffalo.

00:05:56
Speaker 1: Weirdly, the status of at Ingram is like one of the biggest things in this game, and it does sound like he's trending towards a return. He's been their best offensive lineman all year, is certainly their best interior guy, and when he plays at guard, then they could put Titus Howard over at right tackle, and the people, like the ESPN reporter that covers the team, thinks he has a case to make the Pro Bowl this year.

00:06:15
Speaker 4: Titus how I didn't.

00:06:16
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd go that far, but suddenly you got guys in their natural positions. If he can be back, I was wrong about Shakir. He is not listed anymore. I mean he missed the practice, but they're not giving him a game designation, which indicates that they think he's going to play. Curtis Samuel is out, Dalton Kincaid is out, and yeah, it's crazy to think that Gabe Davis, who was cut earlier this year and has been coming off of an injury, he's going to be this big part of the team, but he kind of matters. Like when they needed a fourth down to help win that game, it was Gabe Davis. When Josh was looking for a guy on a scramble like, it was Gabe Davis. I do wonder though this matchup. It's a great Thursday night game to me because Bill's offense versus Texan defense as good as a matchup as he could possibly have. And last year, if you forgot and I sort of did. Josh Allen freaked out against the Techno that game.

00:07:07
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you brought that up, not because I hope that it happens, but because this Houston defense is first of all, they're gonna have to score to win this game. This defense has been close on a couple of plays. They've been difference makers in every single game where the Texans have even been in games this season, and they simply put, I know, Greg how much you love Davis Mills, but they are going to have to score this defense, and they will be looking to score because they already understand the way to play Josh Allen and to try to get them to press too hard and to go into hero ball mode and then to try to capitalize on that. I don't think that they're going to respect these receivers at all. I think they're going to play them tight, and I think they're going to try to jump all of these passes if they throw the ball, and I think they're going to try to force turnovers when they run the ball.

00:07:51
Speaker 4: Just be normal, Josh Allen.

00:07:52
Speaker 1: The end of that game, they had a couple of normal drivers, which was nice to see. One last note is Jalen Peatree is expected to return for this game, pssibly the best slot player in the league.

00:08:03
Speaker 2: Dale Hunter Will Anderson.

00:08:05
Speaker 5: One of the biggest parts of Josh's game is rolling to his right and waiting for seven years before fire and a missile. You can't do that because the Houston Texans either one of those guys is on his way quickly.

00:08:18
Speaker 2: We're on our way. Kansas City coming.

00:08:21
Speaker 5: Off of all loss, off of the bye, playing host of the Indianapolis Colts, the Chiefs favored by three and a half because Vegas can't let go over under his fifty and a half. It is CBS who Jim Nants and Tony Romo on the call. Can we envision a circumstance where the Kansas City Chief Jordan are below five hundred November.

00:08:42
Speaker 3: This this game has kind of not so sneaky huge answer the question Jordan, can you imagine it? Well, yes I can. I nodded at you right. This is a this is an audio medium. Should have spoken, should have spoken aloud? Yes, yeah, I can. Actually, because this team is off, this offense is off. This defense lacked its sort of hidden fastball, and that Steve Spagnolo usually pulls out at the exact opportune moments. And while I don't see them struggling as much, you know, because it's it's going to be angry Patrick Mahomes, it's going to be Andy Reid, it's gonna be everybody trying to write the ship here, especially in a game with such significant potential playoff implications. This is a huge game in Indianapolis coming off the bye. You know, this game could could really help decide what happens to Kansas City later in the year.

00:09:32
Speaker 1: Right they are running out of room, first of all, to make the playoffs, especially to hit their over underwin total. I know I was thinking about the you know, the preseason and you think about expectations. The Colts were the first team in the NFL this year to hit their over. They did it before their bye, which is that's a tough thing to do. They hit their over when they when they beat the Chiefs, would clinch their under if they did not win this game for the for the first time in a long time. And part of it is just like the same problems as that they've had for years now, which is Patrick Mahomes is not connecting on deep passes and you can blame a lot of other things, but like last week, he had two potential ones early in that game and he just missed him to Thornton and Worthy. He did hit Thornton later in the game, but he is seventeen for forty eight on plus twenty passes. He's ranked twentieth according to PFF in their deep passing grades, and otherwise they have him top five on the season, like top five overall. So that's really the only hole that they have in his game. But that combined with Andy Reid's like refusal to run the ball and keep key spots, which is basically all of Andy Reid's career, but I think he's especially anxious to do it this year right now, and so so many third and one fourth down situations he's throwing the ball and it's not been that effective.

00:10:47
Speaker 3: They're turning into pass downs, and they're turning into pressure downs, specifically because they have no balance or compliment with the run game for Patrick Mahomes. And I have to tell you, we did Quarterback Island this week and we were oh eyebrows deep in quarterback stats all week, and the ones with Patrick Mahomes when he's either faced when he is pressured versus when he's not pressured are startling because when he is getting pressure, he has just two touchdowns, one interception, a passer rating of sixty four point three, a completion percentage of thirty nine point four percent. And when he's not facing pressure, that's where his other fifteen touchdowns or interceptions, but fifteen touchdowns, over one hundred passer rating and seventy one point eight completion percentage is happening. The discrepancy between when he is pressured versus when he is not pressured, and part of it too is having to go out of structure and try to make wild things happen, which is not working as well for him as it normally has. But when you turn your middle to late downs into known passing downs and a team and an imposing pass rush can set up to get pressure against you to create that massive of a swing, this is a huge problem. And the Colts are bringing the heat a little bit too.

00:12:03
Speaker 5: It's a funny situation because we were talking with our researcher on Fantasy Kindle about the Chiefs run game statistically according to our success rate and everything. Yeah, it's a it's a good run game. Like when Andy's calling the runs. The runs are having success. They just need him to call the runs, but.

00:12:20
Speaker 1: No explosive any so they'll they'll like rank lower in those stats.

00:12:25
Speaker 4: But that's that's fair.

00:12:26
Speaker 1: This is a game though, where like I'm curious what Lou does because it's gonna be the first game we hope where he has Tarvarius Ward and Stoss Gardner together. They will not have Toforest Buckner, something that we've mentioned on the show, but to me completely changes their team and their defensive line, like their ceiling is significantly lower without their best defensive lineman upfront. But I will be curious to see how that tandem looks and how creative Lou gets.

00:12:51
Speaker 4: And it's it's tough.

00:12:54
Speaker 5: I'm wondering how creative Lou is going to have to be because the Spagnolo defense has not been the Spagnolo defense that we've seen in the past, especially in terms of getting unblocked pressures. They have the lowest marks of all time of a Spag's Chiefs defense in terms of generating the unblocked pressures off the blitz, and we kind of it's been this.

00:13:14
Speaker 2: I know that their cults are just.

00:13:15
Speaker 5: Coming off the buy, but the the Jones dichotomy of like is this real? Is this something that we're just imagining here? This is a chance to say declaratively that this is not going away. Daniel Jones in the Indianapolis Cults are going to be a huge part because while the you know, the unblocked pressures and everything, still there's still a good run defense and it's tough to imagine Jonathan Taylor having another three touchdown game. If that's the case, then the Chiefs are we can forget about the Chiefs for the rest of the season. But if they stop the run, is Dimes going to be this, you know, completing seventy percent of his play action passes, you know, doing all the things that he's done, having more deep success than Patrick Mahomes, Yeah, twenty twenty five, Like does that continue that?

00:14:01
Speaker 1: Because if that's the case, you know, that's how bo bo Nicks did it last week, was he had time to throw on some of those big third and lungs. And before we move on from this game, whenever the Chiefs and the Colts play, it reminds me of one game and that is a playoff game which I think has been lost to time somewhat the Dick Vermial Chiefs with Trent Green going up and down the field against Peyton Manning and Edrin James and that Colts team. And it was a game, my friend Patrick, where there was not a single punt, there was not a single stop other than one Priest Homes fumble on in a day where he had over two hundred yards and three touchdowns. Peyton Manning put up thirty eight points on only seven drives. It was just pure offense. The drives like took too long apparently so that they couldn't But basically each team scored every single time except for one Priest Homes fumble. And that was the difference of just like Hall of Famers back and back fourth in the divisional rounds. So shout out Trent Green. Yes, he was more entertaining as a player than as a broadcaster.

00:15:06
Speaker 2: Wow, let's let's.

00:15:08
Speaker 5: We'll take it back positive because we've talked about pre Solmes fumbling one of the better players.

00:15:13
Speaker 1: That's that's not well, I said the two He got over two hundred yards three touchdowns in that game, so you can't really follow him just one fumble yea too?

00:15:22
Speaker 3: Also love that, Yeah.

00:15:24
Speaker 5: Good old Priest homes nine Or is it JJ McCarthy on the road taking on the green Bay Packers Vikings Packers where green Bay is favored by six and a half points.

00:15:36
Speaker 2: It is Joe Davis and g Reg on the call. Greg, we.

00:15:42
Speaker 5: Saw a rough game from JJ McCarthy. He's a young quarterback. Can you envision a circumstance comes back, they beat the division rival and we feel so much better about him seven days from now.

00:15:54
Speaker 1: Yes, because he's in such a great situation. But that's also why I think the panic has been and so over the top, especially in Minnesota, where I feel like some of the fan base is just like, well, this isn't gonna happen.

00:16:07
Speaker 4: And it's a little early for that for sure.

00:16:10
Speaker 3: Okay, they've been through some stuff though history, gregs.

00:16:13
Speaker 1: I get it, it's a little early for that, but it's not also not like a normal rookie quarterback situation. First of all, he's a second year player. Second, like, there's so many good things around him. There are open receivers, there has been a good running game for him actually since he's come in, and the defense is playing well, So it's possible because we've seen the high ceiling plays and yet he's a brutal schedule and I think they have the Seahawks next, so it's just like it's only going to get harder and it'll be fascinating to see. Like to me, if the Packers defense can be that defense that we thought they were gonna be, they haven't quite been like the shutdown defense that we thought and this would be an opportunity to be that defense.

00:16:57
Speaker 3: Well, I just think yes. And I also think about the Micah Parsons variable significant looming against a player like JJ McCarthy who's trying to get some positive reps under him. They're trying to build some good habits and some you know, some good develop some good traits. They're trying to give him some confidence too. And Kevin O'Connell has been talking about where JJ McCarthy needs to develop the entire year, including in the summer and the fall early fall, and I think that we forgot just kind of how specific that they've been talking about, adding strength, a little bit more torque, feeling where a little touch on the ball, feeling where plays can be made, seeing the field really well. I think these are all things that obviously they want to continue to try to get him to develop in and they've been very clear about this the entire time.

00:17:49
Speaker 1: It's just weird though, in week eleven to be talking about how he needs to improve his fundamentals, like still at the podium.

00:17:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is weird.

00:17:56
Speaker 3: That's what I was just about to say. Is like the fact that they said it all year and then it was quiet for a minute and now it's suddenly resurfaced is like, Okay, so how's that going? Right? So what's that process? What does that process look like?

00:18:08
Speaker 4: And how's that going?

00:18:08
Speaker 3: And you just know that Jeff Haffley and this Packers' defense is going to want to get the worst version, the Fritz out version of JJ McCarthy to emerge in this game. And I think they've got the players to do it.

00:18:22
Speaker 2: They do, and they've been solid against the run.

00:18:25
Speaker 1: I do.

00:18:26
Speaker 2: I know we need to joke about revenge games, but.

00:18:28
Speaker 5: Aaron Jones clearly has a big impact on this team and the offense in the way that koc can use him where not to necessarily hide JJ McCarthy, but.

00:18:40
Speaker 2: To just have maybe a little just maybe more of the.

00:18:44
Speaker 5: Passing game becomes horizontal instead of vertical. I think Aaron Jones could be a big part of that against the Packers defense that you know, as you mentioned Jeff Haffley, having these guys in such good coverage positions so many times. Considering the way that the passing game specifically is going right now, maybe dial it back a little bit against Green Bay.

00:19:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was hoping maybe Jayden Reid could come back this week. They opened up his practice window, but he's not practicing on Wednesday, so there's there's no real reason to think he'll be back. And you know, it's been interesting to see Matthew Golden's coming off the shoulder injury, but fourth and snaps among the receivers. I think they need to build their offense around like throwing the ball and Christian Watson. I think like Watson jobs.

00:19:27
Speaker 5: This is going to be the first week of Dobbs Watson, Yeah, and Golden. And you know, if Reed is back, then it's like the fully squa operational battle station that that Matt Lafleur has waited for it to finally.

00:19:38
Speaker 4: Good luck against the Vikings theme.

00:19:40
Speaker 3: Josh Jacobs is hurt. They're trying to get him ready to play by the end of this week, but he he did have I think it was a contusion that he banged his knee on the turf last week. And then also I do think this is a game where they really want to try to throw the ball against a pretty tough Minnesota Vikings secondary. But Jordan Love is also playing through his shoulder injury like he did last week and with positive results obviously, but it is still something to keep an eye on.

00:20:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Packers' schedule to yes, you know, I wouldn't have expected you Patrick to have already listened to the episode, but it was big news. Jordan Love did make it on to Quarterback Island. It came down to him and Goff somewhat towards the end, who was the very last guy on.

00:20:29
Speaker 3: Now now I'm forgetting Daniel Jones.

00:20:31
Speaker 4: Daniel Jones, Yeah, we had to.

00:20:32
Speaker 1: We had to keep them on ultimately, and Love's got to got to make us look good here. And it's going to be tough because if we were just looking at the schedule, like they have five division games left, and I know the Vikings like this is actually the easiest game I believe left on their schedule. They might have one Cleveland game, which is crazy to think that that the Vikings.

00:20:54
Speaker 4: Would be the easiest.

00:20:54
Speaker 1: But they have the Vikings twice, they have an at Denver, they have a Ravens.

00:21:00
Speaker 2: Like.

00:21:00
Speaker 1: There are not easy games left, so you kind of can't stumble at home against a division opponent that's hurting a little bit. Let's take a quick break. We're gonna come back. We're gonna talk about the leader of the NFT North. They'll getting used to that. The Chicago Bears.

00:21:26
Speaker 4: Back on NFL daily. It's all happening.

00:21:29
Speaker 1: I feel like this is the last normal week of the year. My parents are coming in town, like on Monday, and suddenly Thanksgivings here. Our schedules jam next week, but you know it's front loaded, so.

00:21:43
Speaker 4: We'll have a little different cadence.

00:21:44
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it then in terms of when we're releasing our shows, and then by the time they're gone, we're just a couple of weeks still. Rosenthal Christmas the day that we celebrate Christmas before my family leaves me for Japan in actual.

00:21:57
Speaker 3: Christmas, and then we all rally around Greg is emotional support.

00:22:02
Speaker 2: Hang on to Greg.

00:22:03
Speaker 4: You know what? You know what? Cheers of me up?

00:22:05
Speaker 1: What's that watching Mason Rudolph play football? No, that's not true, although it reminds me. I do remember one of one of the Christmas seasons watching a Mason Rudolph game while they while they were gone, because he was on that Saturday slate on the way.

00:22:19
Speaker 4: To the playoffs for the Steelers that year.

00:22:21
Speaker 5: But Aaron Rodgers wrist has looked at that opportunity. No, Greg, you will not get Mason Rudolph. You're in mid November.

00:22:28
Speaker 2: You will get me.

00:22:30
Speaker 5: As Aaron Rodgers is back in a place where he once claimed to be the owner. Against the Chicago Bears. Two and a half point favorite Chicago Bears against Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers. The over under is forty five and a half. It's Iron Eagle and JJ Watt on the call, as Jordan, we've seen the Bears continue to win.

00:22:52
Speaker 2: It's been fun.

00:22:53
Speaker 3: Wait, that's just a weird sentence, both in conjunction like that.

00:22:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.

00:22:58
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sorry, it just threw.

00:23:01
Speaker 5: It's the Bears, the subjects of fine don't always agree.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: What do they do it again? Pittsburgh Steelers.

00:23:10
Speaker 5: I think Aaron Rodgers and get private nge for the entire city of Chicago.

00:23:13
Speaker 3: Yes, and I think so, and and and Patrick, there was nothing wrong with what you said, by the way, it's just that I'm not used to hearing the combination of fun and Bears and leading the NFC North and and by the way, what if I told you that the Chicago Bears currently lead the NFL and explosive play ring according to Next Gen Stats, and their second year quarterback Caleb Williams, who was taking sacks at almost the worst rate in the NFL among quarterbacks last season, has flipped that completely on its head. So against a Pittsburgh's pass rush and a secondary that has been playing better in recent weeks when they are not getting spat on by people, this is actually I think this shapes up really well for Chicago to play explosive football against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

00:23:59
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:23:59
Speaker 1: I I don't know what to think still about this Bears team.

00:24:04
Speaker 4: I want I want to see more.

00:24:05
Speaker 3: Like hypothermia, just eas in, lean in and there is something.

00:24:09
Speaker 1: And they've been winning these games late, sometimes not against great teams. I was shocked when I saw this week they are twenty fifth right now in overall DVOA, which is my favorite just overall efficiency metric. I'm like, wow, twenty fifth, That is surprising. Part of it is they face the second easiest schedule in the NFL to this point, they will face the sixth hardest moving forward. This is actually one of their easier games on paper moving forward, and I agree, like my instinct would say that they have more going on. We don't know for sure Patrick, that Aaron Rodgers is going to play, but he did say after not practicing Wednesday that you know he hopes to resume on Thursday, and that you know, safety, ability to protect himself will be you know, the main concern. But it's sounding a little more optimistic. I ask you this, who do you think gives the dealers a better to win Mason Rudolf for Aaron rodd.

00:25:01
Speaker 5: I think, honestly, I don't think if Mike Tomlin believed at this point that you know, Mason Rudolph gave them the best chair.

00:25:09
Speaker 4: Not asking who Mike Tomlin believed the maskot of Patrick, I.

00:25:12
Speaker 5: Will say Mike Tomlin is ahead of me in terms of football knowledge. You're asking me to choose between Aaron Rodgers and Mason Rudolph, So you know I'm I'm not being unbiased here because a couple of size of a similar coin on that one.

00:25:26
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm gonna go with Aaron Rodgers.

00:25:29
Speaker 1: Different, different in interesting ways. I wonder what that quarterback I think, so, but I.

00:25:36
Speaker 3: See thy similar.

00:25:37
Speaker 2: I see like.

00:25:38
Speaker 1: Mason Rudolph getting a lot of a lot of he gets a lot of love from from the God Squad. I would say that supports certain quarterbacks, whereas you know, Aaron Rodgers kind of a heathen. So they are different in in interesting ways. Let's move off that and let's listen to Mike Tomlin being asked about Jalen Ramsey. Uh and uh, everything that happened with Jamar Chase last week.

00:26:03
Speaker 4: I have no message. Is someone spits in your face?

00:26:07
Speaker 2: Do what comes natural?

00:26:09
Speaker 3: Yes?

00:26:12
Speaker 4: Love that?

00:26:13
Speaker 3: Oh? I love that? You know who also is loves that and is gonna you know already was playing hard? Is going to fight and die for Mike Tomlin. Is Jalen Ramsey? Because Jayalen Ramsey always had this thing that he would say to Raheem Morris, close friend of Mike Tomlin. They've probably been on the phone a lot trying to figure out, you know, how to get the most out of out of this guys. In his veteran years, he always would say I'm with you when you're right, and Mike Tomlin is demonstrating that there because Jalen Ramsey is correct in this situation. Uh, it's just crazy. We saw a first spinner early in the season. Now we've seen a second spinner. You know, everyone just cape it contained.

00:26:54
Speaker 5: The second spinner was Jamar Chase in this instance where it's almost a sign of positivity for Ramsey that he's in that spot where reminding me of the AJ Green Jalen Ramsey matchups or the you know, all these other matchups where things are getting itchy, the offense isn't having the success that they would like to have against the Jalen Ramsey secondary and yeah, guys are getting frustrated. So like that's a positive sign. My concern would be against this Bears offense, where Jordan already pointed out the explosives. The Steelers have struggled with some tight ends, and I know one of those was Tucker Craft having like the Tucker Craft game, which kind of may makes the stats a little sideways here as of late, but I think considering he was heard at the start of the season, it's been a huge boost for this offense.

00:27:39
Speaker 2: The way that Colston lovel has been playing on Yeah, big part of this game.

00:27:42
Speaker 4: He's looked good.

00:27:42
Speaker 1: And you know, on the other side, I mean, part of the reason I'm not sure about the Bears is their defense.

00:27:46
Speaker 4: That's the main Yeah.

00:27:48
Speaker 1: And they did get Kyler Gordon at practice back this week, and they got Jalen Johnson back at practice last week. We don't know if either one of them will be activated, but that could really help out a team that is blitzing like crazy and still getting no pressure. And that's why I asked the Mason Rudolph question, because I just don't know, Like I do think he could unlock DK Metcalf maybe a little more. Put it this way, I of the saddest sentences of run. I would say, you know, you put Mason Rudolph in. We know who he is. He's a backup for a reason. Aaron Rodgers is one of the two or three worst starting quarterbacks to me in the NFL right now, So it wouldn't like shock me if he played that he would help out. And I think Aaron Rodgers would be aware of that too.

00:28:34
Speaker 3: Well there and they're not getting they're not just not getting pressure despite blitzing like crazy. They're also not getting any quick pressure, so even sending a brushing attack that is designed to try to get quick pressure on the quarterback, they are taking forever when they actually do get pressure to hassle a quarterback. So I would think that if you're gonna play Mason Rudolph, who has I mean pretty much everybody has a longer wind up than Aaron Rodgers does at this point. But if you're gonna put a quarterback in who is definitely a backup and will have a longer time to throw naturally than Aaron Rodgers, then yeah, I mean, why not. It's kind of a safer sity.

00:29:08
Speaker 1: Patrick is laughing at my amazing what it's worthy. We do have a one to one comparison where they basically they looked similar. I mean, Rogers looked worse, but they looked similar.

00:29:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, the vaunted Bengals defense.

00:29:21
Speaker 1: I'm saying, neither one of them looked that good. Uh, to be honest. If the Bears don't win this game, though, it is crazy how the NFL like things can change fast. We're talking about how they're in first place, like this is a big game for them. Win this at home, because if not, you're at Philly at Green Bay the next two weeks. Those that's a possible three game losing streak right looking you in the face.

00:29:42
Speaker 4: But I think this is a very winnable game.

00:29:44
Speaker 5: Who a team did not win this past week in fact look rough, But they are back at home where Jared Golf famously an indoorcap. The Detroit Lions ten and a half point favorites against Mike Kofka's.

00:29:58
Speaker 2: New York Giants.

00:29:59
Speaker 5: Mike Kopcas saying, when on the day that we're having this conversation that Jackson Dart is progressing through the protocol, you had a non contact practice on Wednesday, Greg, I know we enjoyed, uh the Jamis experience of it all maybe limited to one.

00:30:15
Speaker 2: Week, getting Yeah and Dart back against the Lions.

00:30:18
Speaker 1: I think that's good. I think that's good for Giants fans. It's good for NFL fans if we get Jamis one more time. But that was like a perfect Jamis game, had a little bit of everything. That's fine that the lines are the more interesting part of this game, and I would expect them to win. Ten and a half points is a lot, by the way, I'm I'm sure if I totally trust them there their interior offensive line, which we came into the seasons and being like, oh, is this going to be the thing that gets in the way. It really is starting to hit home that, yeah, this thing is the thing that might really get in the way because you know, Tate Rattledge is their starter, he's the guy they drafted. He was the one getting really thrown around last week. Glasgow, who's the center, has not been great in figuring out the protections. Like this is a game when they have the ball on offense where the at least passing the ball, the Giants have the right people to give them problems. I thought Dexter Lawrence is coming off maybe his best game of the season.

00:31:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because he looked very vintage Dexter Lawrence. And against this Lion's interior offensive line, particularly on pass sets, this is this could be a huge mismatch. And we know that Jared Goff would struggle when facing specifically that type of pressure up the middle or even up the inside edges of his pocket. So for me, this Lions team has to get back to doing what we know they can do. It's just running the ball. The Giants cannot defend the run. To save their lives. They cannot defend the run. If you get into the second level of this defense at all, you're gone. And I just think that that's where some of the speed that they have, some of the yards after catchability that they have. You don't have to make it glamorous, you don't have to make it sexy. Just short, quick yack passes and run the ball. That's all you have to do. If you're Dan Campbell, you're gonna love your put your little glasses on. You're gonna love holding that play sheet, pulling.

00:32:01
Speaker 5: Down a little bit and again like his faces are going to be all beaten by the wind and red. And it's angry because Jalen Carter is ruining their entire evening in Philadelphia, and they get a better matchup because I know Brian Burns has had his career high in sacks, but Piney Sewell is letting pressure get to the quarterback on just five percent of his past sets this season, and Jared Golf only completed one pass when he was pressured last week. It was a woeful golf performance. That one pass was actually the touchdown to Jamison Williams and like there were so many, like the look from the backside on the one that was on fourth down to Jamo where he throws like a split finger fastball that hits Williams and the knee. Just I know that that was an anomaly. Jared will be back to complete and passes. This just a question for Dexter Lawrence, like can you simulate a little bit of what the Eagles were able to do on the interior, because I know they're great on the edge, but that's that's not where you want to attack the lions of golf.

00:32:59
Speaker 1: I'm still not that worried at least like big picture like going to win a Super Bowl is gonna be tough. I think beat playing indoors, playing at home is going to be big for them, So they really have a small margin for Air to win the division. They are not outdoors again, by the way, until Week eighteen at Chicago, so that's favorable for them. They're at home here for three straight games. I do think Sam Laporta's absence it just changes who they are a little bit. James and Williams is playing fantastic, but ever since aman Ra made that prompt, remember he dropped the ball against Chiefs and he was like, that's never going to happen again. I think about that every time that happens again. It keeps happening. It's happened in big spots. Not that I mean, I'm not he's low on their list of concerns, but yeah, just don't throw that out into the world.

00:33:44
Speaker 3: And on the other side too, you mentioned Brian Birds. There's also been some a little drama locally with Abdul Carter, who's had I would say, probably a disappointing start to his NFL career. My athletic callg Dan Duggan reported he slept through a walkthrough and Abdul Carter says that he missed it because he was getting treatment. Sleep is recovery, so who knows, right, But and then he said that Mike Kafka also changed the time and that they were in communication about it, but he still did not play for there was still a disciplinary action taken, so but Abdul Carter obviously took you know, he was very open and took ownership for all of that, regardless of the circumstances. But it's just, you know, you really wish we had so much high expectations coming into the season about the collective of this defensive line, including not expecting Dexter Lawrence to kind of have some of the ebbs and flows that he seems to have had and coming off a great game and the combination of Carter and Burns. It was so exciting and it just has not come to life a lot of it. They're playing from behind, they're not really able to rush the passer, I think as much as they would like, but I would really just like to see what the future or the plan might be for this group. And Shane Bonen's coaching for his job, so you got to put it together now.

00:34:59
Speaker 5: I'm good Tarn on the offensive side, because so much of the Dart success was in the RPO and the straight up quarterback run game. In fact that I'm pretty sure you got hurt on a play where the tackle and the guard pull and they're coming around. They're running the ball successfully, but he didn't protect the football or himself on that play. And considering how much of the day ball of it all it was where you have a quarterback and a coach, where the coach would like to maintain his job and his employment, and most of it was based on having office success with the quarterback were now. I don't know if Mike Kafka is going to be utilizing Jackson Dart.

00:35:34
Speaker 1: No, I bet ownership has told them, and I think they've kind of talked about it publicly too.

00:35:38
Speaker 4: Well, it's been like.

00:35:39
Speaker 3: Leaked out there, like subtly not so subtly about like, oh, we're showing him plays where he can be safe for now. Like the timing of it is sending a strong message to Mike cock.

00:35:48
Speaker 5: So like what does rookie Jackson Dart look like when he's when he's not running the ball, because you take those plays away.

00:35:55
Speaker 1: It was it was a rough situation, especially against a good lines defense. That's why I still think my Lions Super Bowl pick has a shot. It's a balanced team, which, by the way, for fantasy people out there might know, it's the highest percentage ever of Jamir Gibbs snaps last Yeah, so that coach Dan Campbell pressing the Gibbs button a little more. Sorry Montgomery, one goes up.

00:36:16
Speaker 2: And you know the other goes down.

00:36:19
Speaker 5: Also a similar situation because he ran more routes than I'm mon raw, so not as much chance to drop those passes to the A team the Lions distrominated earlier this season. The Baltimore Ravens are thirteen and a half point favorite boy against the Jets, and AG has made the quarterback switch. It's to Rod Taylor starting Andrew Catalan, Charles Davis, Jason mccordy are there on the call, Jordan, what would you.

00:36:47
Speaker 2: Like to say about the twenty twenty five Jets?

00:36:50
Speaker 3: Well to Rod Taylor?

00:36:52
Speaker 2: Time?

00:36:54
Speaker 3: Also, what could go wrong? What is it? Thirteen and a half point favorite? Patrick? How is that? Can you fail?

00:37:00
Speaker 4: Right now?

00:37:01
Speaker 5: I feel probably better than justin fields here in this Ah.

00:37:08
Speaker 2: Say it that on Monday.

00:37:10
Speaker 6: Talk to both of those guys. Talk to the team on Monday.

00:37:13
Speaker 2: So tyrowe will be all starter. Because I wanted to.

00:37:20
Speaker 4: Thank you, Aaron.

00:37:21
Speaker 1: I have enjoyed our weekly segment. Aaron Glenn gets weird when asked.

00:37:26
Speaker 4: The quarter.

00:37:28
Speaker 1: See so weird about it because he wants to be the Ravens. Wow, I don't know if I can do this now. They don't quite qualify, you know how. I have many different rules when it comes to spread picks and kicks and whatnot, and they're all breakable. One of them would is just like, is this a team that's worth being favored by this many points in an NFL game, and it's hard to believe the Ravens are consideration for that rule. But the way they've played, if you just took off the uniforms, like, they don't seem worthy of a team that should be favored by that much. They just offensively aren't cohesive consistently. You would think that the Jets would be able to turn that around. But I thought it was notable that like Lamar held the ball on the first play last week, it was almost like, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna start doing this again. It was an RPO and then Schwestinger was just like right there, stopped it for nothing. And then later in that first drive, Lamar took off and scrambled, and it was an effective scramble. It got down to the three or four yard line, and it was partly because just Swestinger made an incredible play on it and stopped it. If you're watching us on YouTube, sometimes that the gods of YouTube just sync up and the play is playing while I say it. Swessinger made an incredible tackle to stop and I'm just like, ah, it's just like not quite happening, and then he barely ran the rest of the game, And I do think they're a little bit of a different offense without Lamar's running, and he's definitely having the worst season as a runner that he's over.

00:38:55
Speaker 3: He's not healthy. I mean, it's pretty clear even if they kind of hem and hawed away or whatever, like he's he's missing. He missed another Wednesday practice according to local reports there. Obviously we're recording during that time, so I don't know what the update on that is from John.

00:39:09
Speaker 4: Hart get it last week too, so I guess that's becoming a weekly thing.

00:39:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's not feeling fully healthy, and so that's where I think this becomes dangerous because if teams now this is the Jets. So but overall, if teams start to key on the fact that they're less have less dimension to their offense and a huge element of danger is taken away from it, it makes them easier to plan for. And I think for the Jets, they could they could use a game like that. I thought their defense looked better. I mean, they went through some huge significant changes losing personnel, but they're getting Will McDonald back. He's leaving the team in pressure right now and I thought they've looked I thought that they have looked better now the offense, who knows, But I think the defense is starting to figure itself out sometimes by necessity.

00:39:54
Speaker 4: Through out to help. I think, yeah, it'll calm down things a little bit.

00:39:58
Speaker 5: And you know, he trusts his eyes a little bit more than Fields is right now at this point in the season. And you know, I'm confident in Raven's edge rusher Kyle Hamilton being in here.

00:40:09
Speaker 2: To provide a little bit of opposition for the defense.

00:40:13
Speaker 5: But over on the offensive side, obviously, you know you're concerned about Lamar and his health, but I think you could take a version of twenty eighteen Lamar out of a lab and he would still struggle to scramble with what's going on in front of him on the offensive line, where not only the multiple times was Miles Garrett lost last week in the protections, but it seems like every single week where there's a stunt and Rose and Garden and Falele are having all sorts of miscommunication about where they're going and how they're going to pick it up. There was actually one of those that led to the interception, which, like so many Lamar interceptions, like a Rube Goldberg sequence of events that leads up. You know, Baalk goes creating off a helmet from a crossing the guard's face on a stunt that ultimately Sweestioninger picks off. And then there was the Keaton Mitchell one where Kean Mitchell just serves it up on the on the volleyball play for a pick six, where it at this point, you can't say if they figure it out up front because we're in week twelve, Like it's it's not going to get figured out. And that's what mar Ball is saying, like it's not in Lamar's best interest to practice today, Like that's that's why Lamar is not practicing, because there's a lot of them not because these guys need to practice at this point.

00:41:29
Speaker 4: And some of them even aren't.

00:41:30
Speaker 1: Like Ronnie Stanley struggled and they get granted, he's going against my Milescarre, but I don't think it's been a.

00:41:34
Speaker 4: Great Ronnie Stanley year in general.

00:41:36
Speaker 2: To your point, things are worse than the other side.

00:41:38
Speaker 1: Yes, Uh, here's some other players not practicing for the ring. Remember when they came out of the bye week and everyone was practicing, it was like Wow, that's crazy. Unfortunately, then you have to start playing football again and then everyone gets hurt again. Kyle Hamilton, Rokwon Smith, Ronnie Stanley, Starter, Andrew Warhe's Rashad Bateman and likely we're both out of practice. And I don't think Bateman's coming back anytime too soon. They just haven't gotten the secondary receivers going consistently, similar to a lot of years in Baltimore. But I thought this year would be different. Let's take one more break on our show where we're just talking early.

00:42:13
Speaker 4: What we do is we cut it.

00:42:14
Speaker 1: Up and then we have the primetime game in the afternoon games, and that's a different show.

00:42:21
Speaker 2: Okay, it's different when you're on.

00:42:30
Speaker 4: We are back on NFL Daily.

00:42:33
Speaker 3: Steve called you out for all of the hand gestures.

00:42:36
Speaker 1: I remember I was there. It was on the show. I like to wave the note cards around. I'm feeling bad because I'm spying this next game, which before the season. You know, if you heard there was an eight and a half point spread on a Bengals Patriots game, you would not think it's going for the.

00:42:51
Speaker 4: Visitors the Patriots.

00:42:54
Speaker 1: But I'm feeling bad because I see that Trent Green is on the call and I be smirched.

00:43:00
Speaker 4: His integrity.

00:43:00
Speaker 5: Yeah there, and then you bring it up again, Yeah, to kick him one more time.

00:43:05
Speaker 1: But underrated player is kind of what I wanted to get though, is those offenses were explosive and is a great what if? Because as great as the Kurt Warner story was, I always think I always think of Trent Green just watching that and thinking and that could have been me. You know, he was the quarterback for you young listeners out there for that that greatest show on turf. Team got hurt in the preseason, Kurt Warner took over and Trent Green still got it done on the Chiefs.

00:43:31
Speaker 5: And if you want a little insight into what you know that sequence of events and how it played out means to Kirk listened to his Hall of Fame intro where Trent Green was up there as a part of the folks inducting Kirk into the Pro Football.

00:43:44
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame.

00:43:45
Speaker 5: Yes, Trent Green is on the call along with Kevin Harlan as we get to find out what happens when an unstoppable force travels through the empty vacuum of space. The England Patriots are eight and a half point favorites, against the Cincinnati Bengals.

00:44:00
Speaker 2: It's the point five. It's the over under.

00:44:03
Speaker 5: The Bengals once again at the top of the biggest over under highest over unders of the week.

00:44:09
Speaker 2: Greg, what do they do in this game against Drake May?

00:44:14
Speaker 1: Probably give up some big plays, miss a lot of tackles. I saw that score and thought like, oh, the Bengals defense actually played a little better last week. You know, the Dealers got a couple of touchdowns late. One of them was on defense. I was like, Okay, they competed, and you watch that game, is like, no, they just couldn't get off the field. It was just giving up long fifteen play drives against a bad offense. I don't feel any better than I did early in the season or before the buy or anything. I'll be curious to kind of see if Kaishawn Booty's back, if Rimandre Stevenson is back, like how they're reintegrated into the offense. But right now, this is an offense which has a lot of different parts working, and I think that's because of Drake May's ability in this offense to be empowered. Brian Hoyer, former Patriots backup, said he personally like he had played in the you know Shanahan system.

00:45:07
Speaker 4: At one point he was with the forty.

00:45:08
Speaker 1: He said he liked that McDaniels system because he felt like it just gave him more options of what to do at the line of scrimmens that you could really take hold of. He's an analyst now for the for the Patriots, and he says he really thinks Drake may is like year five of a process that you wouldn't that you would expect, like in terms of what he's doing. And you look at one of the touchdowns last week where you know, he changes the play before and they immediately pop one of those Trevion Henderson runs that was a couple of weeks ago, and in this last one was one of his passing touchdowns was on that too, and that he really is doing a good job setting protections, especially knowing when where the rushers are coming from, and seems advanced beyond his physical tools to just be in a good ahead of his years mentally.

00:45:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, I'm glad you brought all of that up, Greg, because it immediately flashed me back to when I get to watch them workshop some of this stuff against Minnesota's defense in joint practices over the summer, and I mentioned at the time to you that it was really weird to me because it was almost like they were telling him not to run when pressure came at him, but to really feel it and understand it and see it for kind of what it was coming at him, versus escaping at the first sign of trouble. And so when you do that, you can not only understand what real pressure looks like, but also you can have a better feel for what simulated pressure looks like, and what different types of blitzes look like, and all of the different things that teams will Now I don't know that the Bengals are equipped to do this, but that they will throw at you over the course of the season if you're Drake May, and getting that type of coaching is really significant to me because it does fast track your development if you can handle it. And clearly Drake May is really seeing it well, he's really seeing all the different types of protections he has to call. I think he's getting better support around him and in terms of specifically what is going to happen on a play with Travon Henderson, who struggled a little bit at the end at the beginning of the year, and if I'm looking at one of the many areas in which Cincinnati's defense is vulnerable, I would say this might be a really significant Travon Henderson passing in the passing game game because of the way they miss tackles and because of the way the two of them have really come along in terms of what are we seeing pre snap, what are we feeling at snap, and how do we make things work post snap? And that's not even to mention the production he's getting out of stuff on Diggs and you know other receivers on the team.

00:47:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, that play I was thinking of too, was actually the Henderson receiving touchdown, where right before the play he literally just tells Hunter Henry who to block on the play, who he thinks is coming on the blitz. Hunter Henry does it, and then they hit the touchdown. Ramandre did return to practice. Mike Rabel didn't really want to answer whether there's going to be a more split workload. He said he wants to make sure Ramandre Stevenson is back before they really address that situation.

00:47:58
Speaker 5: It's fun, right, you can keep Remondery healthy and also give Treyvon a little a little more experience. Probably not a lot to learn in this one. Yeah, past you know, running down the field by people and going in the end zone. Uh, but you know, getting a chance to be in the protection game, uh, in the in the receiving game, out of the backfield. We're more experienced for you know, one of the more explosive players in the league on an offense that's very explosive.

00:48:24
Speaker 2: It's almost like he was, you.

00:48:26
Speaker 5: Know, held held there just just in the right moment when they needed them in that game against the Bucks, hit those home runs, and now who they are fully operational into a great part of the season where they're leading the division.

00:48:37
Speaker 2: In Greg's feeling great.

00:48:38
Speaker 4: It's crazy.

00:48:38
Speaker 1: The Bengalings through a little bit of a curveball today with their injury report. Joe Flacco's limited Joe Burrow is listed as a full participant. I've been thinking this whole time, based on the reporters, the insiders like Ian who was essentially hinting at it the second Burrough was you know activated off you know, I r in terms of not not activated, but his practice window open that he was targeting Thanksgiving, So it would make sense to me if he's playing on Thanksgiving, Joe Burrow. That is that he would start maybe fully practicing this week, but just just something to keep an eye on.

00:49:12
Speaker 4: Crazy could he come back even a week earlier you want?

00:49:14
Speaker 3: You don't want? I would think that you wouldn't want that, honestly because Jamar Chase is not going to be there right. But what I am interested in so Yoshivas. You know they can use him in a pinch. He is really productive when his number has been called. It just hasn't been called a lot because you have two of the best receivers in football. As you're one and two on that offense. I don't doubt that this offense, whichever Joe is a quarterback, is probably going to have to figure out, you know, how to maximize Yoshavas or if Mike Kisiki comes back, using him all over as a passing mismatch sort of like a move tight end, or maybe making him your number two quote unquote receiver at that point, you might be able to do it that way. I just think that even if Joe Burrow is full and he and if it's it's early, I don't know why you would almost like waste a game with without Chase on the field.

00:50:07
Speaker 1: I will push back, just not on that, but on all the people that are kind of like, why bring back Joe Burrow this year? It's like, he's that's what he does for a living, and if he's ready, No, I think I think that's fine. Yeah, I just I'm saying like next week because I know there's going to be that conversation, was like why even let him play KASICKI by the way, full practice wednesday.

00:50:27
Speaker 5: So yeah, maybe the second part of the caveat very important if he's healthy, if there are no ling lingering concerns where we're doing this this thing like oh we're watching being careful.

00:50:38
Speaker 2: Like only only if he's completely healthy.

00:50:41
Speaker 5: But I'm with you on you know, if you have Joe Burrow, you got a limited window, all right. You have fifteen twenty years to watch Joe Burrow play football. Hopefully, if he can play football, he should, which is why we should bolish the draft.

00:50:55
Speaker 2: So nobody's sitting there hoping.

00:50:57
Speaker 1: I will be curious to see Christian Gondallas on the Higgins in this game. Would have liked to see it on Chase More. It hasn't been the best. It hasn't been the best. Christian Gonzales this year, like an incredible tackler out of nowhere, Like that's where he's stood out, but hasn't been great in coverage. I would say he's coming off of an injury and has n't been playing with like the same confidence that he had in the It.

00:51:18
Speaker 3: Was a hamstring too, right, So yeah, that's going to be that's going to linger in your mind, not just your body for a while.

00:51:24
Speaker 5: How much do four interceptions linger in your mind? Sam Darnold and the Seattle Seahawks folks are thirteen and a half point favorites on the road at the Tennessee Titans. Kevin Coogler and Moose Johnston on the call where the Titans are scrappy, tightens are scrappy, Jordan, they did it last week?

00:51:42
Speaker 2: Can they do the unthinkable this week?

00:51:45
Speaker 3: No? I don't think that. But I also I gotta give a shout out to Denard Wilson, honestly, because watching this Titans defense, they do not quit, They run to the ball, they play hard. They are limited personnel wise, but they certainly he has them playing probably best case scenario considering the circumstances around this entire team, And you feel horrible for them when you know you're seeing guys shouting on the sideline. Okay, defense did its job. Now, offense go do its job, and then it's just not gonna happen because of all of the clear limitations, not just personnel but also coaching. Now, I don't think that they come even close to manufacturing the same results out of Sam Donald that the Rams did. It is a very specific Chris Shula Rams defensive line and secondary because of some of the simulated pressures he sends like. It is a very specific Chrishula thing with Sam Donald. Frankly, I don't think another defense can very easily replicate it without similar types of personnel, which the Titans do not have. So I do think that this is a back to normal game for the Seattle Seahawks, their offense, certainly their defense. I'm excited to see cam Ward try to make crazy things happen against this defense. I mean, I don't want him to. I don't want him to be put in danger or anything like that, but like you know, we haven't. I would like to see him like workshop through what this defense is and what it will present him, because it will be one of the biggest challenges he faces all season, including the circumstances around playing this game with your head coach long gone, and probably one of the more static offenses in the league, by the way, Like they're not fooling anybody. They don't motion, they don't shift, they run basically the same concepts over and over again. They're not asking him to do a lot pre snap because they don't have a lot built in pre snap. They're asking him to do all the magical things post snap, which drives you a little crazy to watch because he's capable of so much more. But it's just this is a The Seahawks team is a monster. It is an absolute monster on both sides of the ball, and Sam Donald is the leader of it. Actually, you threw some shade at Sam Donald earlier today, and I think Ernest Jones or earlier this week, and I think Ernest Jones had like a really good response to you on that one.

00:53:59
Speaker 6: I mean, sam'sman, Like, if we want to try to define Sam by this game, man, Sam's been had us in every game. So for him to sit there and say, oh, that's my fault, No it's not. He's our quarterback. We got his back end. You got anything to say, quite frankly, thank.

00:54:15
Speaker 3: You, Greg.

00:54:17
Speaker 4: They got to put that on the team. How have I been? I literally had him as I was the deciding.

00:54:23
Speaker 3: Yes on quarterback Island yesterday. You said, I want to just punish him for a little bit, Like.

00:54:29
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well, I said he.

00:54:30
Speaker 1: I said, uh, he didn't get the auto like we at the beginning, we just sort of auto passed five people on. He was like that performance. It took him off being on like the auto pass, but he was next. He was he was sixth and bring him up. What a perfect what a perfect way, uh for him to rebound get a free win. I mean, I mean, let's not give the Titans defense too much credit. They're like they're they're competing for sure, but they're one. There's still like a bottom seven or eight. They could cover this spread in the first half there.

00:55:01
Speaker 3: I think, honestly, like I'm not worried at all about the Seahawks. I will make it very clear, but I really, if you know, I feel for the team being in a situation that it's in, and I just I have to say, like for Gnard Wilson to have them playing the way that they are, nobody's given up over there on the defensive side, yeah, no.

00:55:21
Speaker 1: And Jeffrey Simmons thinks that they're giving up on the offense, like when you're there.

00:55:24
Speaker 3: Is a big skip them here, creditable.

00:55:26
Speaker 1: He said after the game, how they had all these false starts at practice. He loves letting the business out from what's happening in a practice, and that they didn't correct them. And I it's not too hard to read between the lines he's saying, I'm sick of that kid, jac Latham. That's how I read it, because jac Latham had three false starts, didn't take any accountability when he was asked after kind of like was like, oh, yeah, well it was a different cadence, and it's like, well, everyone else didn't fall start off those cadences. And then you're like, Okay, I'm kind of seeing what Jeffrey Simmons is specifically talking about, and I feel like it's probably jac Latham, their first round pick from a year ago.

00:56:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:56:01
Speaker 5: If you if you add up the EPA expected points, cam Ward has lost ninety seven this season on sacks alone. He's He's thirty eight ahead of any other quarterback in the league in terms of EPA lost on sacks.

00:56:16
Speaker 1: I would say a lot of those are on him though too is he by far leads the NFL and pressure to stack ratio, but a lot of them are are on the offensive line.

00:56:24
Speaker 4: It's it's a Schmorgus.

00:56:25
Speaker 3: Whatever the over is, do that and then understand it will be all Seahawks points.

00:56:31
Speaker 5: And I don't want Ernest Jones to say f me, because the conversation tracker is not a person. Oh, Donald's four picks did give him negative points last week, so he's actually off the board as of right now.

00:56:44
Speaker 4: So in terms of the conversation.

00:56:46
Speaker 2: No, he's still in the conversation. He's in.

00:56:48
Speaker 4: Did we have an update?

00:56:49
Speaker 5: We did have an update on the conversation. I was able to talk to Steve Jordan was a vote as well. Bo Nicks is not just in the conversation now. Bo Nix is number three in the conversation, behind Matthew Stafford.

00:57:02
Speaker 4: Greg A. Well, it says you, not me.

00:57:06
Speaker 3: No, it says the conversation.

00:57:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:57:08
Speaker 1: You know what, though, the conversation is measuring things that that I would not, and I think it's probably accurate in the mind of whatever dolt is out there. If bnix keeps this going at this rate, he probably will be getting votes.

00:57:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, to those who say this is a nonsensical process that seemingly is based on vibes and research bias, Yes, it's the MVP Award.

00:57:33
Speaker 4: Uh man.

00:57:34
Speaker 1: I know some of some of the you know some of the ways those associated press voters get their votes done back in the day. All right, let's take a break, and the break is really the end of this show. But stay right here where you can hear fire conversations about Eagles, Cowboys.

00:57:56
Speaker 4: Rams Bucks. We got forty nine ers Panthers on Monday night. Stick around for that.