Charlie's Angels (2000)

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Speaker 1: On the bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello Charlie, Yes, it's me Charlie. Oh Hi, I'm a hot girl. What do you want me to do? I want you to do a mission, But you'll never meet me, and that's then of ours kind of that's what's kind of hot about it. Isn't You're an old man that I can't see and I can never meet, And that's kind of what gets me going with all my friends and Bill Murray fucking what there? Hi? Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. This movie is so weird. Okay, um Hi, Welcome to the Becktel Cast of My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Darante. This is our feminist movie podcast and as you can tell, we're going to discuss a very feminist movie today, a feminist text. True. I mean yeah, I've truly built myself from the building blocks of these various bikini people. Um yeah. I also learned who Sam Rockwell was from this movie. What is this podcast. So we talk about I know, this is our first time recording in quite some time. We take each other a big gap in like a month, maybe even more, No, September one. Isn't it weird that I've been keeping counting like I have haven't seen you for twenty nine days? Well, all right, because of our live episodes. Oh my goodness, you're right. Okay, yes, anyway, so we're all out of sorts, but we're back and better than ever. And we talk about the representation of women in film and how it's usually, you know, not the best, and we use especially in the year two thousand, I think that this is maybe a low and indeed, yeah, and we used the Bechdel test, sometimes known as the Bechdel Wallace test, which requires that female identifying characters with names must speak to each other about something other than a man. Hello. Oops, it already fails. Um by our standards, it must just be a two line exchange, right, So we're set. We're starting by setting the bar real low and seeing if if any movies can crest it. And that the test is invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, and sure is. Oh boy, we're back. We're back nine days. I feel like I haven't spoken so long. We also have a guest with us. Yes, per usual, our guest today. She's a comedian, a writer. You've seen her on SNL and she's the co host of the podcast Best Friends with past guest of the show, Nicole Byer. It's shears amid up. Yes, Hi, Hello, Charlie. Oh what a who do we know? Who plays char in the movie? It's the actual Charlie from the TV show. Oh the back of the back of the head guy at the end of that actor that we saw physically in the movie is the same person. But the voice is the same as the guy who played Interest in the TV show. And I'm looking up his name as we speak, and he's not first build, So let me give me a second. Well, that's part of why he is such an icon, as he doesn't take up space. John forsites it's his name. And this is not passing the Bechdel test, so they're not all going to pass. But so, sire, thank you so much for being here. Um, tell us about your history, your relationship with this movie, this maybe franchise as it were, and and so to be. We're talking about the two thousand movie version Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore, Lucy Loo. Yes, yes, I watched this movie when he came out. I'm pretty sure I saw Full Throttle as well, and I remember liking it. It's fun to see women do stuff that's like action every thinking that was fun, And this is my first time seeing it, probably since it came out. I think that's probably the case for a lot of people. Yeah, this isn't a movie that people seem to like revisit a lot. Yeah, we're and we're discussing it because the reboot is about to come out, because legally, you have to everything, So that's why we're did I mean otherwise, I truly don't know if I ever would have seen or thought about this movie again. And I'm sure that that's true for maybe everyone who was in the movie. Do you have the name of them? I got really stuck on this when I was like doing the background research for this movie. The name of the director is just is that he don't know that. I'm not familiar with Mick Gee's work. I guess I feel like he was a music video director he which makes sense for her. Okay, that makes more sense to me. I was just like how this is his first feature, but he also he comes back for full throttle. He does Keeping in the Family because he was a success the first time. Nick g and then and then the movie is of course written by three men, including John August, who um I think people maybe think better of but you know, it was, it was. It was two thousand. I do remember noticing that Drew Barrymore produced this movie, like when it came out and or like she's one of the producers, and I remember being like fucking good for her, like because she's had a life, you know, like from going from like a twelve year old attictude still alive and really like creating her own ship. I think that's really great and awesome. So and she made a ton of money off this franchise. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, and she's and when this movie came out, she's like still only twenty five, which is crazy insane. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean she's lived several lives. Yeah, Jamie, what's your history relationship with this? I think pretty similar. I remember seeing this movie at like a sleepover at some point, thinking it was really funny and cool and like, I don't know, I was probably like eleven, so I was like, oh, I understand this sexy joke and like, just everyone's just faking their way through it. Yeah, I mean I think I just saw it me once, maybe twice. I haven't seen it in at least fifteen years. And also it was kind of fun on his watch to like, when I saw this movie for the first time, I didn't know who Sam rock Well was. I didn't know who Tim Curry was. Like, there were all these actors that are in this movie that I just was like when I was ten, I was just like, Lucy News awesome. Um, there's a ton of people and a ton of people made a ton of money, and at the end of the day, don't we just want a bunch of random people to have a lot of money. This movie also looks so expensive. There was a whole scenes that could be cut that are so it was. Yeah, it's like really early odds decadence for no reason. Yeah, what's your history with it? I had never seen any of this Charlie's Angels content. I hadn't watched the show at all. Never watched these movies, not this one nor Full Throttle. I have seen both of them now. Um, except for the last twenty minutes of Full Throttle, which I didn't have time to finish before we started recording. With you on your toes. You don't want to. You couldn't get to the end of it. You're dying to not turned out. As soon as we hit stop on this record, I will return to it. But then as you have to run, don't walk. I yeah, I just I don't know why I didn't ever see these, but I think I was like, maybe, like you know, two thousand, I was a freshman in high school, so I was like, I'm too cool for girl movies. I'm a guys out, you know, that wholest kind of person, right, So but I gathered some information and I realized a lot of it now is misinformation from these movies. Like I thought I thought Bernie Mack was Charlie, but he's just Bosley, but only in the second movie, like I just had. I was all, I'm all mixed up, But now I've said everything straight. Wait, Bill Murray isn't in the second movie, correct, because apparently he had um there was animosity between him and mc gee and then also apparently between him. God, yeah, I hate that sentence so much. That's brutal um. Oh, yeah, we're you gonna say Lucy Lou was the other person he had. I also remember hearing that and I didn't I don't know. When I heard this, was like that's a weird thing, but then didn't realize that I was watching the movie. Oh it's probably from this movie, because I was like, when would they have talked to each other? I just didn't know. But yeah, I guess that beef. That sucks because also I've never met Actually I met Lucile once, very pleasant as were at a show, So why would why would she be otherwise? But I was like, what does she really mean? For? In my mind, I'm like, who would ever be mad at her? Should I dive into the recap? Yeah? Recap away? All right? So Charlie's Angels two thousand, directed by Feminist Icon, tells the story. Um okay, so there's an opening sequence so crazy that I think we just need to dedicate like a full hour to talk about that separately. I have a quick I know this is a feminist podcast, but I'm just going to be sprinkling in some First, he directed the smash Mouth All Star music video He's Coming in Hot Hey Now and then he then he directed documentaries for both Corn and Sugar Ray because there's or his must be told. And then he got Charlie's age. Wow. Interesting. Yeah, they're like, this is the guy. His voice clearly is mal teens love him. The opening sequence, they're on a plane and LLL Cool jays there and we'll talk about the whole thing a little later on, but we're introduced to the Angels, this trio of crime fighting private investigators. They are all women. The twist twist is there women this time, and they all work for this guy named Charlie who they've never met. They've only ever heard his voice, which is a carryover from the show as well. I believe the Angels are Natalie. That's Cameron Diaz. She's really good at driving and she's also a genius on Jeopardy. Very unclear. Their characters are perhaps not defined very well. No, they're they're they're like they marry Sue, like scene by scene, they're like, oh, no, she's also a scientist. I'm like, oh, I saw her at a cop academy. They're like, whatever, she's a scientist. Then we've got Alex that's Lucy Lou. She is a horseback rider, but then they neither of which come into play at any other point, and she's dating Matt LeBlanc, who also plays an actor and who has a very bad haircut that's wet all the time. Another wet haired Yeah, just like guys who look like they needed to be toweled off. And then Dylan Drew Barrymore's character. She's kind of like a badass rocker chick. And I guess also she's the slutty one because she has sex with Chad a k A. Tom Green future husband hard Pilled the swallow. Yes, and then maybe he's great. I don't know. Oh sure, yeah, we don't know. Maybe he's great. Then we also meet Bosley. That's Bill Murray's character, and he is the liaison between Charlie and the Angels. They get their next assignment, which is to find Eric Knox, a tech bro who was kidnapped and whose voice recognition software was stolen. His business partner, Vivian Wood, has hired the Angels to find him, and as they're looking at this surveillance footage of knox Is kidnapping, they spot this like thin man in the reflection of a window. That's his character's name the Thin Man, which is like another well that's like another reference to the show. Yeah, yeah, is it a shower a movie? I'm like, I'm pretending. So. Charlie's Angels was a TV series on I forget which network, some broadcast at work in the seventies into the early eighties. So yes, I have not seen any of but I think it lasted like four or five seasons. That was like where Fara faws it became famous, right, that was sure, people, we're too young and we're going to dive into our engines to be like stupid idiots on the bittle cast didn't watch a show from nine six? I think that's right. I'm ready. I think it was. Yeah, it was like far faucets. Yeah that was yeh would believe. Yeah. There's also a lot of remix of Charlie's Angels. I just typed in Charlie's Angels into IMDb, and there's like the ones coming out into eighteen, the two thousand's one, nineteen seventy six TV series, two eleven, TV series three, video game, something called Charlie's Angels that came out in two seventeen. I'm not sure who Charlie is I mean, this is a popular property. Everyone once to adapt it, which I think is like weirdly telling in its own way to just like why are we still trying with this? There was fascinating about women who are hot but also good at spy stuff, also just subservient to a godlike boy. There's two and six TV show Grief. The Thin Man is a is a famous detective movie. Oh yes, uh yeah, yeah, The Thin and the Thin Man. Um. Okay, So they spot the thin Man in the reflection of a car window and they so they're like, Okay, we've got to figure out who this guy is. We have to find him. And then they know of an enemy of Eric Knox, this guy named Corwin. That's Tim Curry's character, who owns a satellite company and who at one point tried to buy Knox Enterprises, but Knox refused to sell. Did any of you get like confused with the various villainous plots that were like I kept I was trying really hard to find I was like, this is like I didn't like many like spies, like detective espionage type stories. I think they're purposefully convoluted so that when I don't go I just don't realize how many like plot holes there are stuff like that. I was just I was getting like insecure, and I was like, I'm going to get there and they're going to know exactly what happened. I'm not really sure what happened. Why are they at a race track? Doesn't matter and they are racing. Full Throttle is far more confusing. So if you think this one's bad, like, just wait till you see Full Throttle and a complidence. But I just was worried that I personally was stupid and didn't understand. No, it's it's for sure overly complicated and pretty nonsense cool. Okay. So um, the Angels crash Corwin's party to try to get some intel, and Luke Wilson is there and he and Natalie are flirting. Sure. Um, And at the party they spot the Thin Man, who is played by Crispin Glover and they all chase after him, and he inadvertently leads them to Eric Knox, all tied up and kidnapped, who Jamie, as you pointed out, is played by Sam Rockwell and all star cast is what we're sasses Sam Rockwell wild, So they rescue him, but his voice recognition technology is still gone, and they realize that Corwin wants this voice technology because it can turn any cell phone into a homing device, So they have to get it back to protect people's privacy. I mean, isn't that what going through right now? I mean, yes, they knew, they knew back into thousand that we should have listened to McGee when we had the chick. So then they plant a camera on Corwin's briefcase at the race track, which is a scene that we need to have so that they can survey the inside of his like corporate headquarters. And then they figure out what they need to do to infiltrate Corwin's security vault. Um, there's these like two security director guys whose fingerprints and retinal scans they need. So they go and gather that stuff and they break into the vault and hack into Corwin's main frame. They do have they hack and that's pretty hard, you gotta handed to him. They hack, and also Melissa McCarthy's there. Melissa McCarthy is there. Yeah, this is like has to be a really early role for her, right, She's great. She calls Lucy Lou a bitch in a scene that spoiler alert does pass. The Betel test does pass. Yeah, it is full of four hornymen flanking Lucy Luke, and yet somehow it still a limited metric that's not perfect. Meanwhile, Knox and Drew Barry Moore's character Dylan, are flirting, and then Cameron Diaz is going on her date with Luke Wilson. Vivian Wood, Knox's partner, seems kind of suspicious, and then she is also seducing Bill Murray shortly because everyone has to be seducing someone. If you're a woman in this movie, you must be seductive. Yes, yeah, yeah, we'll talk all about your body is your only weapon in most scenes. And then Crispin Glovers the thin man who is Crispin Glovers? Why should I know? Um played George McFly in Back to the Future. That's probably his biggest role to date, That's how I know him. He kills Corwin, Tim Curry's character, and then other people are trying to kill the Angels, and then Vivian drugs and kidnaps Bosley because surprise, Vivian and Knox are the bad guys. Yes, yes, yep, and then the Angels figure out that Knox was using them to tap into Corwin's satellite technology so that Knox could use his voice recognition software to track down Charlie, their boss, because he thinks that Charlie killed his father, so sure that's why he's after him. This is honestly, I'm like, I'm totally gone at this point, have no idea. Okay, Now, the Angels figure out where Bosley is being held and they go after him to rescue him. So they all arrive at this place is like fortress. Knox captures Dylan and ties her up. Natalie rescues Bosley and then fights with Vivian for a bit. Um. Alex tries to interfere with Knoxes like phone trace to figure out where Charlie is while she's also fighting Crispin Glover. And then finally all these all these fights are happening exhausting, and then Knox finally pinpoints Charlie's location and then like leaves in a helicopter to go very far, not far, extremely conveniently like a jet ski away. And then the Angels are fighting off the bad guys and then they go to stop Knox. They blow up his helicopter and then they that's a great shot where the missile hits oh yeah, Sam rockwell and explodes. He dies so he could he's in pieces. He shred it intense. Then then they wash up on the beach right in front of Charlie's house, which is right there, which is at the edge of the beach, not even deep in a forest, like, oh, he's in hiding, all right, but he's not there and they just missed him because you can only ever hear his voice, are so horny before they go into the house, like do you do you think he's gonna Their relationship drives me nuts. They're all soaking wet and they're like, do you think he's gonna? Uh? And that's pretty much the end of the movie. They're drunk on the beach after that, and then that's the end. It turns out Charlie's actually watching them from afar and chooses to not introduce himself extremely rude framed pictures of them in his house. 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Oh boy, can't we start with I wanted to complement this movie on exact like on on one thing that I thought was and there's the moments where you're like, but I I was kind of expecting the fight choreography in this movie to be super lame and like the way that we see female action heroes, especially like a little earlier on, are really like they're only allowed to fight other women. They don't really have weapons. They're pulling hair and kicking each other. Literally, they're vagina pressing. What is the movie where they've vagina pressed each other in the face? And you're, um, I mean there are there are dozens of movies where a woman wraps her slash vagina around usually a man's face, but exactly it could be any gender. Uh, And then like slam pussy slams them into the ground. That's what I meant when vagina press, that was nasty. I'm sorry that sounds like some merch we will need to make. The vagina press. I thought it was two pussies pressed against That's what I thought. I was like, what movie is this? We'll make a list, but but and and not in every example, but the fight choreography was way better and cooler than I thought I was going to be. There was like the whole first fight sequence where the three of them are fighting that guy. You can tell it's the actual actors that are doing the fight choreography. They're really good at it. It seems like they're like it was like exciting. I don't know. There was a lot of the fight choreography that I thought was like way better than I was expecting from this kind of movie. It did seem like with their legs in the air for a long time that they were being held up by strings or something. For sure, sure there was there was at one point where you can see Drew barrymore Land and a harness and sort of be like she like bounces down. I was like, a Jay didn't get the shot. Well, this movie comes out a year after The Matrix comes out. In this movie and desperately wants to have fight scenes that look a lot like the fight scenes in The Matrix they have. There's kind of like there are elements of this movie that are so campy silly that I'm like, the obvious harnesses I thought were kind of fun because they could afford to not I mean this. They had a ninety three million dollar budget to make this movie, which in two thousand, who even knows. It's like ridiculous. They were just blowing up race cars because it was allowed. They're like again in a scene that really has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. No, right, Okay, I was just checking because I was like maybe every time I would get confused, I like, probably because I didn't understand the race car scene. Yeah, you know it really is that scene. Does something happen in that scene? I think the point was to plant a camera on this guy so they could figure out the entryway to the vault vaults. But there's no reason that needs to happen as a race car track thing. I guess that's just what that guy was doing that day. Had like the tuft of Drew Barrymore's hair that he couldn't stop smelling. Was that that's the man. They weren't looking for him. They're looking for Tim Curry Crispin Glover. Honestly couldn't pick him up out of a lineup. But he's like one of the like minions, hair Minions, hair sniffing minions, a new trope when he started when he jumped in the race car because I guess he's also Tim Curry's hired race car driver, right, and then Cameron Diaz went after him. Drew Barry was more straight. It was like, you don't have to chase him. He's in a circle. But it's like, yes, why is this happening. He's not going anywhere, He's just practicing for the big race, right. But then they do go off the track into traffic a bridge that looks like it's a bridge in San Francisco, but they're all in l A. I don't know what bridge this would be and why there's no traffic on it right. Well, to your point, Jamie, another thing I really like about this movie, especially as it pertains to like kind of the action and the fighting and all that, is that we get to see a woman participate in a chase scene being the driver, and then she plays essentially a game of chicken with this bad guy and she wins, and he flipped her over her car unaffected. She does win by basically magic, but she wins. Nonetheless. Yeah, I was like, I guess let's just get out what we like, because yeah, I want to talk about that there was but it is, I mean, it is cool that it's kind of like baked into the premise that they're all like they're gonna win obviously, and that's like not always, like you know, that's rare for you know, women to get to be in action movies at all, much less be the winners the main characters. I mean, it's right, we can come on one maybe two hands, the action franchises that have women as the protagonists that also like performed super well at the box office, and like this is this feels like a sort of like a like weird to revisit step of sort of progress sometimes in some ways. Um. But the other thing that I liked because I was worried at the end where they're all fighting in the climactic battle sequence where there's too many fights to keep track of and I can't tell a lot of like Crispin Glover and Sam Rockwell, I honestly was having trouble at some point, like who's um but Drew Barrymore Dylan. She gets kind of damseled for a little bit, but then she frees herself and kills them all with a chair, and so like even that they like kind of dodged the damseling one of the heroes at the end, so I thought that was cool too. She also gets a nice cathartic moment where she was wronged and lied to and used by Sam Rockwell sunglasses, and then she gets a nice moment of being able to beat the ship out of him before he explodes and dies, and yeah, she really does get her revenge. And then she's like, well, back to Tom Green, you know. And then the character who is actually the most damseled is Bosley, so that was a nice change of pace. And then then yeah, and he doesn't. And it's like it's nice because I feel like that's another like thing that I don't even know how consciously they're doing it, but I feel like it would have been very easy to write that character of like I can't believe I'm being saved by all lady. This is so emasculable. The Bill Murray's like, thank you, just like you are clearly more skilled than I am. Please help me. So I was like, all right, that's you know, it's like there are there are like kernels of good stuff going on here, and it is fun to watch as fucking confusing and misogynist as and like you know, like current problematic on every single level. It's just there's just so there's so much happening that you can't even when I don't know what's going on, I can't look away, right. Yeah it is fun. Yeah, it just looks it's fun. It's silly. There's a lot of like a ton of explosions, lots of lots of like joke e like sexual and nuendo jokes where you know, Cameron Diaz is like, oh, I signed that waiver so you can stick it in my slot anytime, which you know, brings us to some of the things that perhaps are not great about this. Okay, we're getting into it. Well, is there anything else that anyone thought was particularly well done? I liked the soundtracktndtrack is fun because there it's a dustin these child songs written for this movie Independent Woman Part one. But also there is a song during the fight scene in the alleyway with the thin man um the lyrics of which are smack my bitch up. And I think that also might be the name of the song. So maybe the thin Man's the bitch. Maybe you know what, I didn't think of that. We'll take it. Yeah, it's a fun song. Though, it's a fun song Okay, So where do we dive in? I don't know, maybe the beginning where Drew Barrymore's in disguise is LL cool Jack. Yeah, that's let's start at the beginning. How do we I definitely didn't remember that, didn't see it coming and was like slack jaw. The way these three characters are introduced, it's like gets progressively worse, where it's like Cameron Diaz is you know, she's in a bikini and like, all right, great, and then Lucy Luke gets this comically long. She's like shaking her hair out for take off her helmets, and the whips her hair back and forth, and then you're like, where's Drew Barrymore att? And then you're like, no, what. I actually did remember this from when I first watched the movie, and as is happening, I was like, oh damn, I guess I was okay with it when I first when I first saw this, and now I'm like, this is really crazy. Yeah. Not only is the L cool j a black man, but also an African man with like decinta cloth and then even his parachute is matching his African garb. Everything every inch of fabric on this man was quote unquote African garb and I don't even think he tried to do an accent, because why it's already I don't think he did. Are already disguise. The disguises are just I mean, there's not a good one in the bunch that was That was alarming. I'm like what yeah, what, yes, And that's not the last time that Drew Barrymore specifically jeez later in brown brown face. Yes there, so yeah, we'll get to that in a moment. Just to close the conversation on the extremely bizarre L cool J mask disguise scenario, The way that reveal happens is that like Drew Barrymore as LL cool J has like grabbed this guy and they've jumped out of a plane together because he has a bomb strapped to him, this this bad guy, and which he just shows He's like where the bomb? Yeah? And then the bad guys like what plane is this? Very luxurious couches in the first class. I was like, I don't know a lot of first classes and that I've never seen a plane like that. Next level, there's also that racist flight tendant who's like, there's no way you could be in first class, just like, thank god, you know, I guess some progress here. They're trying to show like, even though this is a white woman inside of a black body, this person still deserves right. That same flight attendant a few minutes earlier was like, it's not the seats that have gotten smaller, it's that your ass has gotten bigger. He's like making fun. He's like fat shaming this woman. Who I guess he's complaining. Yeah, it's like one of the first lines that's spoken in the movie. Didn't he get blown up? He never comes back. I was like, maybe he'll come back and he'll get you know, blown up. But this bad guy who has a bomb strapped to him, he's like, who are you people? You crazy bastard? And then llo cool J takes out the voice modifying device and then it's Drew Barrymore's voice and she says, I think you mean crazy bitch woman woman because he's a woman. She's not a bastard, she's a bit. This is like the I mean this like movie totally and we've talked about this on the show before, but just like that very bizarre late nineties early two thousands, like catchphrase based feminism that is based in nothing. It stands for nothing, and it's so jarring to see now, like actually, I'm a crazy bitch. And then she takes off La cool J's face Space You're this is also this is I used to one of my favorite movies, troublingly used to be the Master of Disguise, Dana Carvey Vehicle two thousand two, his last starring vehicle, and that is like the rubber face masks of celebrities thing was just like a very strong trend during this the first Bush administration. It was just scary free open season. Then a few scenes after this, we have the massa j parlor scene where Lucy lou is massaging Tim Curry. Hate that, don't like it. And then Drew and Cameron come in and the way they are dressed and the music que that happens when they show up is like just like full blown Japanese culture appropriation. And there's also a song that happens after the music que, the lyrics of which are turning I think I'm turning Japanese, which not to not to like ring a dang a little bell on anyone. But Kirsten Dunced weirdly did a cover of that horrible song like it was like Tenure, but it's still that song has a weird, troubled legacy of being sung by white people constantly that yeah, that's the and this is Jamie, as you pointed out, not the only time that these white women, Cameron and Drew Um dress in a very appropriative garb. Because in a later scene, Lucy and Cameron are like belly dancing in a scene that's appropriating Indian culture, and then no one in the scene is Indian. And then Drew Barrymore in brown face walks into the scene picks up a bottle with the dude's fingerprints on it. Why why it was her face actually brown or she has brown makeup? It's only her. It's it's very busy like and I think it is like also telling that no one talked about it or cared when this movie came out, that there's just like Drew Barrymore, very famous actor, producer of the movie, in full on brown face for a whole scene and just everyone's like, yep, I think they probably have like a board of like what environments can these girls look hot? And then they went backwards from there, right, they were verse engineered it from there because like, yeah, when they showed up to one of the scientists house, who those guys they had access to the vault or something, so they're like, we're now a yodeling telegram and we'll say yodels to this guy to get his eyeballs information. It did seem like, yeah, like it was all a ploy to get them into different like revealing outfits with no consideration given to like the culture they were absolutely because it was like that's the only way you can get this information. You can't like, yeah, astronaut German Diaz is a jeopardy genius. Like they're smart or at least that's how we don't see that the ways that they're like getting information or advancing this story and their mission is truly like d activating men by their looks. Yes, it's appropriating other cultures in an extremely racist way most of the time. And or it is seduction. So the seduction thing. Yeah, And I mean even the fact that like Lucy lu I think is like written into that massage parlor scene in the first place is very lazy and telling, like it's a movie written by three white guys and it's super shows perfect, right. The crazy parlors. Yeah, like, let's do the laziest thing we can think of, and then it's not it's not good. It's more on the seduction aspect of the you know, attempts to get what they want. Where to begin, there's a lot, Yes, it's all of them. And we have talked about this a lot on the podcast, where on one hand, if women can use their sexuality to get things that they want, particularly from straight men, great because for a long time, the way the world was set up, that was pretty much one of the only tools women had that they're just bosal to get results. On the other hand, uh, this movie had the opportunity to show women doing other things and using other tactics besides their sexuality to get what they want, like their brains and their fighting skills and things like that, their ability to fly into space, super genius powers, and we see a little bit of it throughout the movie. But I was truly shocked by how often they use their sexuality to get what they want, because it's which does seem like it from what I know of it. That's also like a staple of the Teacher Show that this movie just elects to not update in any way. And possibly make worse. Yeah, like that that whole It's bizarre because we are given like these kind of cool facts about these very underwritten characters, and then instead of ever finding out, like, for example, why they work for Charlie, will qualifies them to work for Charlie? How did they get huch with Charlie? Here's Bill Murray fit into all of this? Like what exactly are their job qualifications? And like, but they just derail the plot of the movie regularly to just show a series of dates that they're on, Like every twenty minutes you just see all three of them on a date. Ye. I was like, it's also like if they're working, they shouldn't have time for that, right, I have time to be going on a date or making dinner for their man or whatever is Yeah, like making dinner for matt LeBlanc between scenes, Like what they It's like, that's the identity you chose? This is our secret identity is being a bikini actor girlfriend to a actor actor and she lives on set with him in a trailer and she's sucking genius. So like, why I'm glad you brought all this up because the movie for some reason sets aside time for all three of the Angels to have a romantic storyline. I think I know the s um Well. It might interest you to know that when this movie was originally pitched, apparently there were no romantic subplots, but Drew Barrymore, one of the producers of the film, decided that she wanted to include love interests for all three of the angels um and that they were added so that the women watching this movie could live vicariously through these characters who were having it all. You underestimated us. Yeah, I can only understand these kick ask women if they're having boy problems. I'm having boy problems. So if they're not having boy problems, who are they? That's such a that's such a bummer. I mean, I would imagine Drew feels differently these days. That's always such a bummer to hear where you're like, it wasn't even make g who insisted not like it's so easy to throw make under the bus. Now, I'll play Devil's advocate for just a moment. In in that when we see female protagonists in movies with demanding jobs like the ones that the Angels have, we often see like they're romantic and personal lives suffering as a result. So the fact that they do have, like I'm not saying I'm for it, but the fact that we see them on screen, I guess having it all, but like it bugged me. Yes, but I was also like, okay, it's two thousand, Well that's I get what you're saying. And also it is also nice to see that it's not interfering with their work, because I don't other than the like the same Rockwell relationship thing, but that they're still able to have a personal life right and be really good at their jobs at the same time. Yes, the fact that it is three hetero romances that for the most part don't have anything to do with the main storyline except for the Sam Rockwell Drew Barrymore one. Yes, it's perhaps not the best writing. It's really guys, it's really bad writing. I was like, now, hold on, it is very poorly. I wouldn't be as annoyed at the constant derailing to go see Matt LeBlanc on yet another day with his girlfriend he knows nothing about if we knew anything about Lucy Lu's character, but I guess just you don't know anything about And then it's so like so lazy where it's like, yeah, technically we see them do stuff, but it's like in montage where you're like, oh, I guess Cameron Diaz knows how to clone people. Oh I thought she was just on Jeopardy, But I guess she knows how to clone people. And they're just oh, yeah, she clones a hand or something, or like three D printers of hand, three D prints a man's hand four or three D printers were even invent right, she's again ahead of the curve, and then it's just like cut to a scene of her being like how do I call Luke Wilson? You're like, come on, man, I was so like, I so much time used to see, like is she going to fund this waiter? Like yeah, their choices and men are also like I mean Tom Green special time. I mean again, maybe he's a nice person. Maybe he's a great guy. I don't know. He won an award for this movie, but it was for worst person in a movie that's very funny. Well it was bad. It was clearly like, oh, they're fucking so that's why he's in this movie. They met on set. Yeah, Oh I thought he was in the movie, Like as a favor, Like she was like, we can't do this with my boyfriend. And I thought it was like how Carson and Tara did, Like how Carson Daly's and Josie and the Puss. Yeah, no, it's they met on this set. Open then why was that scene even there? He was so weird so long because they were like, he's a comedian, let him impervise. But it was like he just fell into the water. He just and then and then when he comes back, I was like, I was extremely unrape came back. I was like, how dare this? And then it's implied like they're gonna end up together. You're like, boat guys, you're gonna end up with this guy? Okay? Like I found the romantic supplets to be like very frustrating because there's like the ingredients to so much cool stuff and it's just constantly just distraction from Definitely it's hard enough to understand what's going on. And then I was like, is Luke Wilson involved? No, he's just taking up room. In this take. He takes her to a Soul Train show, where there's another weird racially charged scene where Cameron Diaz is dancing to baby got back. The rest of the crowd is predominantly black, and they're just like all staring at her, being like, what the fuck is this white girl doing? And then they, like for no reason at all, start to like get on board with what never minding, and then she like wins the crowd over, and it's like, what are you trying to say with this? What's happened? I get it. It's white women can in racism by shaking their ass. Yes, that's correct, we can all be brought together the enthusiasm of a of a blonde white woman. There's I'm like, who insisted on that scene being there? I just that was so unnecess They kind of gone to dinner. Yeah, that that well, it is like all the dates except for the Sam Rockwell dates. Nothing, there's no Well, that's I guess a payoff of a scene that's planted earlier where Cameron Diaz has a dream that she's like dancing and then she wakes up and she okay, So there's a minister reason to have Cameron Diaz without pants at the beginning. Absolutely none of it is justified, and it's all horribly written, but this is the movie's justification why it's in But yeah, I mean I think that speaks a lot to again, these these characters being so under written because we the things we do know about them are like usually told in montage like you mentioned, and or they're just inconsistent and weird and don't pay off in any meaningful way. I still don't have a grasp on like what each of their specialty is. Like I think Cameron Diaz seems to be the one who like drives. If there's a driving thing, she's the driver flips, but then she she flips, but then she also sometimes like does some like tech photo enhancement stuff, and then she's a computer. But Lucy lou also does a bunch of that too, and then she also does some like bomb wire. She's really good at wires. That's like, I almost that almost made sense to me because I'm like, oh, because space technology, because space, because she's engineering things could be and then space and horses. Oh. Also back to Lucy lew and Mala long relationship. Even Matt la Blanc didn't want to know more information about her because when she was like, look, I'm not who I say I am. I'm not actually a bikini wax there and he's like, oh, bummer, I thought I thought that was pretty hot. And then and then and she's she's like, now I have to go. And then there's no follow up questions. He's not like where are you going? He's like, oh, I guess you're going to Charlie. So it's also like he knew about Charlie the whole time, but didn't know who he was. Did you think Charlie was managing the I think so she's like, important bikini wax business. I gotta go meet up with Charlie. He's like, okay. He also thinks like he also gets weirdly threatened at the beginning. She's like, Charlie, that's a chip, right, that's a chip. And then she's like I don't know, You're like what you're This is not a good relationship for either of you. This is bad. There there's just so much and like Lucy Lou like she like neggs herself in the first like it's just the way they're written is bananas, Like the the she negs herself in the opening scene because she accidentally slips up and says something smart in front of matt le Blanc was like did you know that? And she was like, it's crazy what you can learn on the internet, and then he sounds like, I'm smarter have any information about my backstory at all. And he's relieved by that reveal, and he's like, okay, cool, kiss kiss Oh can I okay? These are I'm just my notes are chaotic for this one. The like the movie the scene where okay, so this is a scene with Sam rock Ball and not Crispin Glover. Maybe you know it's the it's the date that Dylan goes on where they talk about her daddy issues that. Okay, that makes sense, so that was um, so what happens in this scene it's one of the date scenes, but the twist is it has bearing on the plot. Um. What happens is they're like on a date and then he asks her, shockingly a little about herself and she says, well, my mom died when I was young. I never met my dad. And then he immediately was like, oh, so that's probably why you work for an old man that you've never seen, which is so aggressive, and she doesn't doesn't react to it at all, and then he knocks over a scrabble board and she's like, wow, this guy is cool. Then she tries to leave and she's like, I have to go. I have to go work for my Like he just is like, oh, daddy issues. Awesome, let's cook up. Like he confirms she has daddy issues and then is like cool, clear for landing for Sam Rockwell, but then she has to go and then he kind of like baby, it's cold outsides her and it's like, wait, what about the shaking bag? Shaking bag product placement? God knows how much money they spent in that. I hope that like there because he's like, oh, we got to make the shaking bag, and then she's like, what if we just did shake? But don't forget He suggests that she is the one who does the baking because women be bacon bacan. They had to get every everything in in this. It was so I wonder if Shaken Big had to pay more because they end up sucking as a result of the product. This, this product will make you fuck commercial. We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be back for more discussion. Hi, Charlie. Speaking of Charlie, just a little bit more about him. The Angels relationship with Charlie. Like they've never met him, He's always watching them, and yeah, it's like this weird, voyeuristic god like like I'm going to control you. You're never allowed to meet me. We can only communicate through this other man who's a liaison between us, who will also treat you weird, yes, who will treat you Because they're all cuddling in that first on his shoulder like he's like lady drawing on them, putting his hands on their knees and stuff like that. Also not a good look for Bill Murray, who already has um. I mean, just look up his domestic abuse record. I don't know. I'm not a fan. I also just think he should not go to people's weddings and he's a fucking weirdo. But that's just me. You weren't invited, don't go my favorite thing. He's making it better disruptive, get out. I paid a lot of money for each guest to be here, and I'd be like, this is my day, and then dare you I'm the Bill Murray of my wedding. But anyway, these characters are written to be obsessed with Charlie, like they're in what the dynamic of this relationship. It feels like vaguely gas light e border lines. I don't know. Something was very weird about this dynamic. But they're like, we love you, Charlie, You're the best. Charlie's like you don't even know him. That's one of the qualifications that why they were chosen. They all have daddy issues. We learn about Trus it's so the daddy issues, Like it's so annoying and I like. But the thing that I think makes me like that was the like weirdest or felt the weirdest is like, yes, Charlie is like this old, mysterious guy who's addicted to controlling young hot women. He has framed photos of them in his home. Feeling very safe about all of this. But the fact that they don't question it at all, and they like just don't like they don't they're just horny. They're just like a low, simmering horny. For the predicament, it seems like of like I don't know, which I know is a carryover from the seventies, but it's just I don't know. Anytime they're like, well that's what the show is, like, it's like, well, it's an adaptation. You can do stuff. Well that show was damaging, and uh, yeah, you can update stuff. Yeah, the show was was I think often criticized for being jiggle TV, which was basically just emphasizing the sex appeal of the female leads, which is like a reason for them to like run. It's like Baywatch is a later version of it, which is not an issue that's corrected in this movie at all. There's, like I mean, in the in the the weird soul train scene, there's a ton of slow mo Cameron Diaz, I made a list of all of the extremely unnecessary, usually male gaze shots in the beginning. We already talked about this little bit, but Lucy Lou taking off her helmet and whipping her hair around in slow motion, and then another completely random and unnecessary shot a few moments later where she takes off a fencing helmet in one of the flashbacks and whips her hair around again, and then later she tells Cameron Diaz to do it. She's like, whip your god her hair, which is another time they interrupt the scene to flirt. Is so annoying, like Wilson, get you out your work. This one we already touched on as well, But Cameron Diaz dancing around in her underwear in her house and then opening up the door for a package delivery in her underwear chaotic, stupid, Yeah, and then saying you can feel free to stick things in my slot and that's supposed to be, you know, a hilarious joke. And then she runs into her own door, yes, and is unaware of the where her house is in relation to where she's standing. Yes, basical awareness goes all out the door because of the cups man, which would make her probably a bad spy fighter person. But she's really so I don't know, flip do backflips and not just the floor for a two point five seconds or whatever it is and go into that vault. Why why can't she walk into her house? But with these it's just they try to get, especially Cameron Diaz, naked as much as possible, as early as possible. Although there's that scene where like Drew Barrymore is like needlessly naked as she's like dangling from Yeah, and then she like walks into that house with those little boys. I hate scenes like that where they're like, oh, now the kids are horny too interesting. You're like, no, I don't. I think it's it's also like still people are like little boys seeing adult women bodies is funny and not traumatic. They're like, oh, that's like a hilarious boys would love that, as opposed to like this is actually maybe going to affect them they're older. Good grief. Here's a few more on my list. J yeah, jiggle TV baby um. The shot of Lucy lose Ass as she crawls Overdrew in the car to fix the intercom at the drive through. Yeah, there's a shot of Lucy lose Ass again in a leather skirt. Sound effect on that is sick. She's like, skirt. It was like, this isn't even like achieving the intended effect. Which so that brings me to the list of all the times where the Angels use seduction as a technique to get what they want, which again I feel it's every two seconds, far too often, and it's always like immediately after they've just done something that you're like, oh that was pretty cool, Like it was right after that huge fight scene where you're like, wow, this is awesome, and then it's a dating seduction montage right right right, Because there's a one where Lucy Lou pretends to be an efficiency expert. She's dressed as a dominatrixes with the with a whip, and then she comes in and smacks her whip around and it makes all the computer programmer dudes all horny, and then she like plays kind of a dits at the end of that scene where she's like, can anyone like show me what you're talking about? And then that leaves Drew and Cameron who are dressed as men in this scene, which like that worked for me, okay, but then they then that's when Cameron diaz Um you know, gets shrubs completely, yeah, right, and you know, flips around in the vault, which is also funny because they're like, she needs to be invisible, and she puts on this white suit, but you can still see her eyes and her like the flesh on her face, and she eyes the camera, looks directly in the camera the one part of skin that is on her that you can see. Look, what's that right in the lens of the camera, And it's like, Hi, god, dude, dude, did it just keeps going at the feast the whole purpose of what you were doing. So whoever watched it gonna be like I see floating eyes, I guess. And then the vault opened by itself, we should probably investigate. So bizarre. And then there's the scene where Drew Barrymore's character distracts the man who's in Corwin's car while Lucy breaks into the trunk. But like, but she's like in a fully unzipped race car suit and she's like, she's like, oh my god, I'm like, what what you went to like police academy or something kind of. I don't know if she also licked the steering wheel, which is so nasty because that's like so many hand germs. He's probably not the only driver of that car, probably not, didn't seem like a clean man. It's just like steering wheel. I was like, bye bye, so weird. Yeah, And then the costuming also so like they are private investigator detective spot. I don't even know what their role is exactly, but they're doing a lot of like covert operations. They are like fighting and flipping around a lot, and yet they're in outfits most of the time where almost their entire chants exposed, and it's like if you do one flip, your tips are out there, slow out and they're even when they were like scuba diving, where they were like swimming up to whatever the island was where Sam Rockwell had Bosley Like Cameron Diaz scuba gear was like open to her mom's pupis Like it was so open, and I was like, how did I keep you that? The name is inefficient? Same thing when she's undercover as a waitress and every other like every other person working there is wearing a normal outfit and she's got again all the way like down and and then she's like ha ha, like I'm really blending in, but you're not. You look foolish. Yeah. I mean, like, if you want to expose your skin, embrace your sexuality, beautiful, we're all for that. But to do that when you're also trying to like accomplish us covert spy mission and you're fighting a bunch and your boobs are going to get in the way doesn't track. I just want to a movie where whatever woman is in charge is like, oh, I'm about to fight. Let me get my ponytail holder out, put my hair back, getting out my face, because to take these heels off, because that's not gonna make me run faster but my clothes but not mine. But yeah, let me get fight mode, as opposed to like, let me be the sexiest thing ever and then get to it second hair whipping sequence just exhausting. Was there was there more? Um, I think we've already covered everything else in terms of the like male Gaze seduction, there was There was one line that Drew Barrymore has been she it's been Sam rockwell first betrays, which is also a very funny scene to me because I think that maybe at some point in the production or writing process they realized that maybe the movie was really confusing, because there's that whole shot where the camera is circling Drew Barrymore and she's basically like explaining what has happened for the past and she's like, so that person wasn't who I thought it was, was it? And Sam Rock was like no, and she's like, and I guess that other person wasn't who I thought they were. And he's like no, and she's like, and then I would deduce that you are also not who I thought you were and he's like no. Camera makes like three full revolutions around her. But in that scene she is on a quote unquote date with him, but then she like makes this bizarre joke about She's like, well, I'm a full service pert, like implying that anytime she's a spy, she's also having sex with the people she's spying on. It was a weird joke. Uh, can we talk about Vivian. I have mixed feelings on Vivian. I, on one hand, was kind of expecting Vivian to just kind of be left there, to just kind of not do anything. I like that she at least turned out to be relevant. Sure a plot, but she is also I mean, the seduction trope is alive, and while she has a Rufie's bill murray um, which is very villainous. Yeah, yeah, I don't know it was. I'm still I think I'm just like still confused. But I don't know exactly what she wanted, but I'm glad she turned out to be important. Yeah, her motivations were not clear, but depending on the circumstances, I usually appreciate a female villain. You know, her character was not necessarily well developed, but but nor was anyone. She wasn't singled out. She was Sam's business partner and also love her or girlfriend or wife, kept being like mean, kept being like my lady or my girl in references, Vivian to find the relationship is the relationship, and then he kissed her on the neck, but then she also fully let him fux somebody else, so they're both and we don't they chose not to define it for the movie, and maybe it doesn't need a definition. Yeah, maybe that's where just being normal. Do you think then maybe so this is me kind of thinking through this in real time, But do you think Drew Barrymore's character is sort of like subtly or like inadvertently slut shamed because she does have sex with a villain, and then that puts her in a position where she's like, oops, I didn't notice that he was the bad guy because I was too busy like sucking. The villain's definitely slept shame her like you, silly girl. I knew what happened, of course, And he's just like, yeah, at least you were a good lay. Now I'm going to kill your friends and your daddy. And I still understand how Drew Barrymore didn't die when he shot her in the head about whatever. I guess I wasn't in the head. They went reversed and went to Salomo. She fell backwards and then the bullet missed her head hit the window behind her and then she got naked, and she got naked for the children. Yes, okay, I did look like a hit her in that, but um, that's what we're supposed to think. But she, Yeah, she like choreographed it so that she because she wanted them to think that she was hit by the bullet complex. Yeah, but she was orchestrating this whole thing. But and I think that like kind of the villains definitely sledge Chamber. But it seems like kind of like the story does too, because they make her out to be like, oh, she's like the more sexually open. I don't know how to correctly phrase it, but like they make her out to be silly for being sexually active, and then they punish her in the story, like for having sex. The direct consequence of her having sex is that she almost gets shot in the head and all of her friends almost die. She does like, well she is she does get to redeem herself though she does. Yes, so yeah, I don't know, I think the movie doesn't really know how uh it feels about it. But then she she also it's implied that she has sex with Tom Green at the beginning of the movie. Yes, so why why do they talk? Why they have a conversation that boat. I don't know. I don't know, but I guess I like that. Yeah, I suppose that she is framed as being as having multiple sexual partners, and the movie I think punishes her to some degree. But like, at least her friends are like, you silly, look what you got us into or anything like that. So they're all actively encouraging each other to have as much sex as possible. Like, stop what you're doing, keep flirting, stop them. You know, we're in the middle of the mission right now, but go and try to fuck Luke Wilson. And she's like, I'm nervous, she said, And Lucy lives like fuck him now, like flip your hair, dick. Oh what a strange movie this is. I do want to bring to everyone's attention, um that Lucy Lou was paid millions less than her white co stars were both movies. Um. I don't know the exact numbers for the first movie, but for the sequel, Full Throttle, Cameron Diaz was paid twenty million dollars, Lucy Lou paid only four million. Yeah, I didn't know it was that. Yes, Oh, that's so sad and if you're putting performances next to performances, I mean, it's terrible. Lucy Lose amazing. Yes, so there's some you know, standard Hollywood racism for you. In addition to the very weird ways in which she's like narrative handles um race, also behind the scenes, it's also handled horribly. Oh Jesus Christ, that I well, I guess I wanted to before we before we crop up. I guess I just wanted to take the tap of like is it necessary to? I mean, I'm I'm in the grand sense, like cool, Elizabeth Banks is directing a movie. It's got a diverse cast, Like that's exciting, that's cool, But what story I want this again? Is there a way? I guess it's just this seems like one of the franchises, and I feel like that like most reboots where they're like, I know that women were done a wild dist service by this franchise multiple times, but we're going to give it another shot. I can't think of an example of that ever going particularly well. And I don't know. I think it's just like it's it's frustrating. I wonder if studios and Dubiz are afraid people won't see female lead action movies if it's not already a thing we are familiar with, like if it's not already attached to a superhero franchise or a reboot of something. I mean, some things have done really well, but like the things that I'm thinking, like recently are like Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel Um, like, these are things that already female those busters. Yeah, exactly. So it's like if it's a thing that's like it's its own thing, like the Charlie's thron one that came out what was it called again? That one? No? No, this is a more recent one, yeah, where she's like fighting everybody and she has like that lad of blond hairs Coolie yes, which I watched and is also very confusing. But the action action is fucking killer. It is great. But I don't know if they did that well. I don't think it did. And that's like Charlie's Theron and her peak, you know, And so I feel like there are probably people who are like, I mean, we could try, but we wouldn't make money. Here's the yes, right, here's my theory on all of this. And this is something a trend that we've noticed on the podcast is that the trajectory usually goes from there being no representation to an attempt at representation, which is usually bad uh and not nuanced at all, and then as years progress, better more nuanced representation. I think the same thing applies to just like stories overall, where like for the longest time, women didn't get to be at the helm of action franchises, and then they did get to be there, and Kenny Valley like this movie yeah, or like tomb Raider, which we talked about and when, which is like the same era sexualized woman the movie um, and then right uh, and then down the road we are getting Slash, we'll probably get more nuanced like original action franchises starring women. So I think we're still in the stage of like we're not used to blonde women are allowed to direct. Now when I've taken away from recent years is now it's like we can have several blonde directors working at any given time as long as they were already famous when they direct, and eventually brunettes then we'll have people of color. And jeez, I hate I hate that that probably tracks it's it is weird. I hope the movie is good. I'm glad it exists. It does already though it's it's like strikes me as feeling like a weird Like a couple of years from now, people will be like, oh, yeah, I guess that that was just like a little shove in the right direction. But I hope that there is a you know, I feel like it just like is going to take one of those out of nowhere breakout movies that is like, oh, you can tell an original story starring a diverse cast of women. That isn't like It's like movies that are rebooted like this feel so genetically engineered to do well that they kind of just even when the people in front and in back of the camera are very talented, it just feels like it feels like a science experiment. It does, But I think we need a few of those that are going to be box office hits to show Mr. Hollywood that, yes, people will Mr Charlie, Charlie himself, can we make a movie like I don't know, how did the reboot to show that like women female lead action franchises can be box office successes, that women can direct those and still be box office successes. So we're still in this stage of like we on the battel cast or like yes, we're you know, let's move on. But I think the general movie gong population isn't quite I know. I I mean even the fact that we that it's like we have to explain like this math problem about like when are we going to have a really good movie is like, well, it doesn't seem likely we'll have a very good movie for at least ten years because men aren't ready, and they're like, I mean, yeah, I I don't know. It is I feel weirdly like weary of it. But I also yeah, but also just for the sake of a good movie, I want to see someday, I hope it does well. Same and I think it'll be far more feminist than what you would think would be more of a feminist text in this two thousand Charlie's Angels. It is still quite regressive, as we have pointed out for many reasons, but there are some like moments of like two thousand's feminism black and catchphrases written the movie, such as there's way it kind of I guess please never send a man to do a woman's job. Vivian Wood says that yeah, you're like whoa. There's a moment at the beginning where Drew Barrymore is like, well, if he is threatened by a strong woman, then you shouldn't be with him, and then they talk for another five minutes about like but how could I be with him? How can I make this week? There's Those were the two that I had, plus um Lucy Lou talking to Tim Curry being like, my hands aren't going anywhere near your staff. And then she also keeps rejecting this man at Corwin's party, being like no, no, no, and it's like we're supposed to be like whoa feminist dich And then you have one of those weird flippy moments where Vivian when she's heading on Bill Murray, whose character I other than the weird like my girls they're like vibe you get at the top where you're just like but his character was generally like pretty chilly like it was in fact I would call him mostly a dufus yeah, like he was more like he wasn't like a lecherous character. But then when Vivian comes in, she's like she kind of comes in like fuck consent, like she just like call like and then he's like, I don't know about this. We're coworkers, and she's like fucky and you're like, whoa that. He also doesn't tell her to leave. He starts a fire and pours wine. It's like, we shouldn't be doing this, but do you want wine by the fire? Yeah? That's like so much like so much of this era of movies. It's constantly it's just like the way people interact is so uncanny Valley and not. I mean it's a movie, but it's also like there's no criticism put on the guys that are like constantly aw going Charlie's Angels because they're framed and their characters are written so that it seems like that's what they want, like they want to be a stared at because and there's and and then also that like thing that the worst kind of guy will bring up of like assuming that a woman's sexuality is some sort of plot against them. This movie plays to those stereotypes hard, like, well, if she seems attracted to you, she's gonna kill you, like you steal your money. Yeah. Well yeah, this is all to say that I think this reboot of Charlie's Angels it's coming out just based on the more diverse cast alone, I think will hopefully be a more like inclusive, intersectional text than what we've seen so far. Yeah, it seems like it will be. It seems like that's like a priority, which is great. Yes, because I think a lot of people will see it. I think it'll you know do My guess is that it will do fairly well at the box office. Here's hoping we'll I'll go, I'll see it twice. Um. But yeah, those were all my thoughts. Does anyone have any other final thoughts about the movie? Oh? Did you know they were in a band, the Angels during the credits? Oh yes, they were all playing in a band together, and we don't know why. They just were dressed like green Day maybe and oh yeah there what song? Honestly shut it off this second the movie, and that I didn't know what happened during the credit. Yeah, I got some some Josie and the Pussycats vibe, some produ typical because that was after right, Yeah, that was well, but the I mean the comic book who knows what came first will never find out. Oh yeah, yeah they're in a band, so good for them for that. The women in rock and roll, we need to see more of it. And then finally, yes, does this movie pass the backdult test? It does. I forgot to pay his close of atten is I should have because we've been on a break. I forgot how to do my job to feminism. It's hard. It's been out here being very toxic for the last one. I mean, women definitely talk to each other a lot. I got, I got a few different. I mean there's a lot of two to three line exchanges between the three angels, and usually it will divert pretty quickly. There's not full scenes. My favorite one is the scene between Melissa McCarthy and Lucy Liu. Yes, Melissa McCarthy's in this movie. Yes, she's done a huge disservice because it's two thousand and she is playing the only female employee at the place where Lucy Lee is pretending to be a dominatrix for reasons I couldn't tell you. Um and she, you know, Lucy Lee walks in and Melissa McCarthy gets a name. Her name is Doris right. She's like, yeah, I have that, you know. It's like I I have the one female coworker name. And she's like, hi, I'm Doris, I'm so excited that you're here, and Lucy Lee's like fuck wrote out like I'm not quoting it, but I'm only interested talking to the men, right and then and then Melissa McCarthy's left in the dust and she like calls after like you bitch, and the whole exchange passes because Lucy Lose like I heard that, and she likes it. She liked that she called her a bit. She's like, I was planning, she was being dominatrix. It was just being domed. So it does pass, not as much as it should, but it does pass. Also, a lot of the conversations are them talking about men, but as it relates to like their job and the mission, so like it's not men in the romantic context, it's it just happens to be about men, but they're actually talking about the mission, so I don't know, except when they're talking about dating for ton of which does happen a lot. But there are times, yeah, where it's like they're technically they're talking about work, but their work always pertains to the men. Men, which, by the way, the men in this movie are either villains or Bosley, who is a du fust and doesn't seem to be very competent at really anything, except for chewing some object into the shape of a gun. It was like or crystal or that. It was very confused. Okay, I was like, as long as that was confusing to everybody, just ye, just a gun out of a rock or something, and then never used it. It never came back. Okay. The only other man is off screen. We never see him wheel your voice except for the back of his head at the end. So yeah, I guess the men are generally the enemies in this film, to the point that we can do what we do to women two men. True, Yeah, that's true. Yes to the Bechtel test. But the nipple scale, this is actually kind of challenged. I know. So zero to five nipples is our scale. We rate it based on its representation of women. So taking into account everything that we've discussed, including the bizarre and upsetting and offensive ways in which this movie handles things like race and you know, cultural appropriation um, the excessive use of male gaze cinematography, the underwritten female characters, the far too much emphasis on the romantic relationships. Also, just in terms of the three main characters, there's just absolutely no diversity in terms of body shape and size. They are all extremely thin, conventionally attractive women, and uh, you know, it would be nice to see more inclusion in terms of body size and shape by diversity, and especially the early two thousands is such a particularly brutal time for policing women's bodies in this way. Um, which just makes it all the more frustrating that this movie didn't do anything to support that. For sure, I would say this only it's like one and a half nipples, like great that it is like a female driven action franchise. It was this box office hit, three million budget and a two hundred sixty three million box It was very successful. Okay, so people saw it. And while it is not necessarily an inclusive and progressive feminist text, it is I know, I know, hear me out. I suppose it was a stepping stone for stuff to come later. So I'm gonna give it one and a half nipples, and uh, I'll give one half to each of my gals, Lucy. Actually no, I'm going to give all one and a half to Lucy Luke, who was drastically underpaid. I had no idea that much. That's absurd. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go one. I think it's like, it's a fun movie, but I wouldn't never recommend it to anyone, not even as really a hate watch. It is like very of its time. I respect that it, you know, just a female lead project doing well at the box office, even if it was written, directed, and everything else besides two female producers has everything to do with men, male gaze and horny girls. Um, I love horny girls, but not when they're written by men. I just don't. So yeah, I don't know, and and for all for all reasons you're describing, I gna give it one fun romp hate Bill Murray and you know mcg I checked it. I checked in Hill McGee, like I texted him, but I checked in to see what he's up to. And he just produced Tall Girl on Netflix. So still into female lead things, right, I'm just like, maybe I would hope that the men who are responsible for writing and directing this movie have since tried to move on, and it seems like that is sort of the case. I want to give people room for growth. Mcg is now producing Tall Girl. Haven't seen it. I'm tall I'm interested. John August wrote the Aladdin reboot that came out this year, and I think he tried to write a song about women in it, right, he was like, I should have a job like that was Jasmin has given some political aspirations in that movie and a female friend. Okay, so so you know everyone's were all. But it gets one nipple, obviously, and it goes to Lucy Liu. I guess I'd say I'm gonna give it a whole too. Sure, two nipples because they tried, you know, they worked with the tools they were given in the year two thousand. They didn't know no better. And also it was really cool seeing women kick ass. I did think the action scenes were really fun. I did have fun watching the movie. There are a lot of points where I was eye rolling because I was like, oh god, this is nuts. But also when it came out, I don't think I felt that way like any of us did. We just didn't know better. I like, harness action is what I've learned. I really like it cool. But yeah, I think it is a nudge in the right direction, and that hopefully there were a bunch of girls who saw that when they were young and we're like, cool, maybe I could be an astronaut who rides horses and disarms bombs and also dates. It does kind of at all. It does sound like asking a little girl like what do you want to be when you grow like I want to be an astronaut but also a horseback rider and also this, and they're like, well, we'll tell you it, got you, got it? Oh, So thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you online? And what would you like to plug up? While my Instagram and my Twitter handles are at the Sheer Truth th Sheer Truth, and I have a podcast called best Friends with my best friend Nicole Buyer, and we do live shows sometimes and you can find that on our twitters as well. When we said what we when we have them? And I want a movie called The Weekend. It's on Amazon and iTunes right now and on demand and it's a fun rom com that I'm pretty sure passes the Bechtel test. I didn't check, but I'm pretty sure it does does. And yeah, that's it. Awesome, Thanks agin, thank you, thank you. You can follow us at Bechtel Cast on all the platforms. Sign up for our Patreon ak, Matreon, Patreon, dot com, slash baytel cast to bonus episodes a month. You love to hear it, you do, admit it, and then you can get merchant public dot com, slash backtel Cast nailed it one month the way. Still remember the end of the podcast. Bye Charlie, Bye Charlie, Bye Charlie.