Quantum sensors monitor brain development in children

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly

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podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston.

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This episode explores how quantum technologies

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have the potential

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to revolutionize

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medicine.

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First up, we hear from a professor of

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medical imaging and psychology

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who uses quantum sensors

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to study brain development in children.

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And we also hear from the managing director

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of the company that's created the technology she

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uses.

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A bit later on, I chat with a

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venture capitalist

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who funds companies that develop

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quantum technologies for Madison.

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But first, Physics World is brought to you

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by IOP Publishing,

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You can find the journal at IOP Science.

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Earlier this year, I found myself in the

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heart of the city of London

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in a gleaming skyscraper

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hosting the commercializing

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quantum conference.

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Organized by economist

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impact

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the event brought together people from quantum technology

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companies and their customers

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real and imagined.

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While much of the focus was on quantum

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computing

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there was also lots of talk about quantum

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sensors.

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Medicine is an important

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early application of quantum sensors,

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and delegates were treated to a fascinating

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presentation

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by Margo Taylor,

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who is director

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of functional

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neuroimaging

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at the Hospital For Sick Children

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in Toronto.

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She uses special helmets

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adorned with quantum sensors

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to do

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magnetoencephalography

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studies of the brain development

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of children.

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I caught up with Margo after her presentation

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along with co speaker David

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Wolger,

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who is managing director of UK based

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Circa Magnetics,

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the company that makes the helmets.

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We spoke in a quiet corner of the

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conference center, but you will hear some enthusiastic

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delegates in the background.

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Here is that conversation.

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So, Morgo, what is magnetoencephalography,

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and how is it used in medicine?

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So

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magnetoencephalography

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or MEG

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is used to look at brain function,

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and it is the probably the most sensitive

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measure, the most sensitive means we have of

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assessing brain function. There are other techniques for

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looking at brain function, but MEG gives us

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amazing temporal resolution

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as well as well as very good spatial

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resolution.

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And it it's very valuable.

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And and when you say brain function, it's

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specifically looking at electrical activity?

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Yes. Yes. So it doesn't give us any

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information about the structure of the brain, but

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about the function of the brain.

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And the disorders

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that I'm interested in are disorders of brain

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function,

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and they rarely are

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disorders of brain structure. So you're measuring electrical

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signals. Does that mean that the brain is,

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electrical

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signals.

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Does that mean that the brain is, essentially

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an electrical device? Yeah. They are hugely complex,

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electrical device. Well, it's

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electrochemical,

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but we are measuring the electrical signals that

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are the product

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of the electrochemical

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reactions in the brain. When you say that

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you're not looking at structure, does that mean

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that you get, just an overall

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signal from the brain, or can you actually

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get some structural information? Do you know where

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that signal's coming from? We usually get a

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structural MRI as well, and then we have

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very good source localization

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approaches

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so that we can tell where exactly where

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in the brain those different signals are arising

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and how they are connecting with each other

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and the interactions

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amongst different brain regions and the timing of

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that interaction.

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So, Margo, why does Quantum MEG make it

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easier to do brain scans on children?

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Because the the quantum technology

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is now wearable because of the OPM systems,

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the optically pumped magnetometers,

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and therefore, they can be put into a

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helmet that the child can wear. And so

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if the child is wearing a helmet, there

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is allowed movement because the helmet moves with

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the child, and so we're able to actually

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record brain signals in the very young children

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because they can move. They can sit on

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their parents' lap. They don't have to be

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lying perfectly still. And, also, the other thing,

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you said that cryogenic, the classic MEG,

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is, a one size fits all, typically. So

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it's designed for an adult male head. And

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if you put in a small child, they're

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a long ways away from the sensors. And

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so with the OPMs,

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they're in a helmet that can be a

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different sized helmet for different sized head.

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And so we have little tiny helmets up

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to bigger helmets. And so the sensors are

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much closer to the child's head. The child

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can be sitting on the parent's lap. Child

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can move. And it's just

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a game changer in terms of recording

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signals in little children. I see. And and

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one thing that I wanted to ask you

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is when when I was watching your talk,

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I I saw the helmet,

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you know, on various children's heads. And I

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thought of when I wear my bicycle helmet,

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it's, you know, it sort of wobbles around

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a bit. Does does the helmet have to

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be very tight on their head so it

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doesn't wobble?

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Yes. It needs to be reasonably well,

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positioned.

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And so we have, nice soft linings inside.

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We have several layers of lining depending on

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the child's

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head so that even though we have the

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right helmet size for the child's head, we

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can also put in, like, an an extra

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thin layer just to make sure it fits

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nicely, and we have a little chinstrap, a

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little cloth chinstrap just to keep it from

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falling off. I see. And and do do

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do you ask the children to to stay

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still or are they free to to move

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around, or, or, you know, would you like

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would you like them to stay as still

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as possible? We we like them to stay

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reasonably still. And in some,

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of the newer,

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rooms that are used for OPMs,

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they don't need to stay as still, but

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the room that we have, they need to

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stay reasonably still. So, Margo, you're you're currently

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leading a study at SickKids

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that's using Quantum MEG,

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that's using a Quantum MEG system from the

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UK's Circa Magnetics.

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Can you describe the study that you're

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doing? Sure. We are looking at

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early brain function in children with and without

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autism.

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And so autism is usually diagnosed by about

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3 years of age, and the youngest is

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usually three years of age, although sometimes it's

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not diagnosed till later.

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But if a child could be diagnosed or

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detected to have autism earlier, then interventions could

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start earlier.

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And interventions are very effective,

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at ameliorating,

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some of the symptoms.

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And so we're looking at children with and

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without autism, but including children that have a

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high likelihood

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of developing autism to see if we can

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get brain signals that will predict that whether

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they will go on to get a diagnosis

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or not.

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I see. And and in your talk today,

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you showed some slides with,

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data showing signals from children's brains and how

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respond to,

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faces.

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Can you talk a bit about that? How

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how how do those responses how do they

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look different,

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using MEG from, you know, maybe somebody who

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might be developing autism to somebody who doesn't

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have it?

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We don't have those data yet because we're

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looking at the children who have a high

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likelihood of autism, but we don't know yet.

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So we're we have to wait till they

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grow up and for another year or so

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to see if they get a diagnosis.

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For the children who do have a diagnosis

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already of autism, it seems like the responses

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are not quite typical, but we haven't fully

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analyzed those data. And so we think that

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there is a signal there that we'll be

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able to report in the foreseeable future.

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But we're we only have tested 32 children

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with autism so far, and we'd like to

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get a a bit more,

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data before we publish it. I see. So,

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Margo, are you able to share any preliminary

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results with us at the moment? Or have

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you published,

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papers based on this data yet?

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Not yet. No. Sorry. We're still analyzing data.

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We're seeing beautiful,

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age related changes in our young in our

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young typically developing children, because we had to,

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of course,

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establish what

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happens in typical children before we could compare

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it to children with autism or high likelihood

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of autism. Because nobody has been able to

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do these studies before because of this technology.

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We're the sort of the first to have

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these studies, so we have to establish

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the fundamental, the foundational datasets.

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And those will be able to publish very

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shortly.

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I see. Okay. Well, looking forward to seeing

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those. Beyond this study that you're doing on

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autism, are are you using the MEG system

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for for anything else at the moment at

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Sick Kids?

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So the OPM system, we're also,

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setting up studies, to look at children with

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epilepsy to compare with the cryogenic and other

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imaging technologies with colleagues.

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We're also looking at, children who have a

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known genetic disorder

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to see if they also have brain signals

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that predict whether they go on to

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experience a neurodevelopmental

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disorder. And then we're also looking at children

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who are born to parents with HIV,

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mothers with HIV,

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and to see if we can get an

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indication of what is happening in their brains,

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that may affect their later development.

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00:10:45,225 --> 00:10:45,725
Okay.

279
00:10:46,105 --> 00:10:48,824
Well, that's great. Thanks. We're also joined by

280
00:10:48,824 --> 00:10:50,444
David Wilger of Circumagnetics,

281
00:10:50,985 --> 00:10:53,404
which made the the the helmet system

282
00:10:53,784 --> 00:10:56,059
that Margo uses. David, can you can you

283
00:10:56,059 --> 00:10:58,699
just give us a brief description of the

284
00:10:58,699 --> 00:11:01,440
technology and how it works? So our technology

285
00:11:01,659 --> 00:11:03,519
uses optically pump magnetometers.

286
00:11:04,059 --> 00:11:07,839
They are very sensitive to magnetic fields. Effectively,

287
00:11:08,059 --> 00:11:09,995
we're sensing magnetic fields

288
00:11:10,455 --> 00:11:10,955
3,500

289
00:11:11,414 --> 00:11:11,914
times

290
00:11:12,294 --> 00:11:15,174
lower than the Earth's magnetic field. To enable

291
00:11:15,174 --> 00:11:17,514
us to do that, we actually need to

292
00:11:17,894 --> 00:11:20,774
shield against the Earth's magnetic field, so we

293
00:11:20,774 --> 00:11:23,379
do this in a shielded environment with both

294
00:11:23,379 --> 00:11:24,919
active and passive shielding,

295
00:11:25,379 --> 00:11:26,919
and we're then able to

296
00:11:27,459 --> 00:11:30,659
measure the magnetic fields from the brain. So

297
00:11:30,659 --> 00:11:31,959
when a neuron fires,

298
00:11:32,339 --> 00:11:34,659
you get an electrical field, and therefore you

299
00:11:34,659 --> 00:11:35,480
get a corresponding

300
00:11:36,019 --> 00:11:36,554
magnetic field.

301
00:11:51,620 --> 00:11:54,340
To understand functionally what's going on in that

302
00:11:54,340 --> 00:11:56,740
area. And and David, are there any other

303
00:11:56,740 --> 00:11:59,860
applications for this technology beyond, you know, the

304
00:11:59,860 --> 00:12:02,360
the helmets and and what Margo is doing?

305
00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:05,665
So, there's a vast number of applications within

306
00:12:05,884 --> 00:12:06,865
brain health.

307
00:12:07,325 --> 00:12:09,644
So, for example, we're working with a team

308
00:12:09,644 --> 00:12:11,565
in Oxford at the moment. We're looking at

309
00:12:11,565 --> 00:12:14,045
dementia studies. So, at the other end of

310
00:12:14,045 --> 00:12:14,785
the life,

311
00:12:15,325 --> 00:12:15,825
cycle,

312
00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:18,600
we're actually looking at how you can identify

313
00:12:18,740 --> 00:12:22,019
potentially dementia much earlier, and therefore, how you

314
00:12:22,019 --> 00:12:24,980
could potentially treat it with drugs or other

315
00:12:24,980 --> 00:12:25,480
interventions

316
00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:26,360
earlier.

317
00:12:27,139 --> 00:12:30,285
Outside brain health though, there's a number of

318
00:12:30,285 --> 00:12:33,085
groups who are using this quantum technology for

319
00:12:33,085 --> 00:12:36,205
other areas of medical science. So one group

320
00:12:36,205 --> 00:12:36,945
in Arkansas

321
00:12:37,565 --> 00:12:40,065
are actually looking at fetal imaging

322
00:12:40,684 --> 00:12:41,184
in,

323
00:12:41,929 --> 00:12:44,649
during pregnancy so that they can actually see

324
00:12:44,649 --> 00:12:47,950
much more clearly than has previously been possible.

325
00:12:48,250 --> 00:12:50,970
There's also another group in London that are

326
00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:54,649
looking at spinal imaging using the, optically pump

327
00:12:54,649 --> 00:12:55,149
magnetometers.

328
00:12:55,529 --> 00:12:58,165
So there's a vast range of

329
00:12:58,705 --> 00:13:01,105
medical imaging that can be done with these

330
00:13:01,105 --> 00:13:01,605
sensors.

331
00:13:02,785 --> 00:13:04,245
On a wider level,

332
00:13:05,665 --> 00:13:07,924
concussion is also something that

333
00:13:08,304 --> 00:13:11,125
potentially you can look at using these sensors.

334
00:13:11,184 --> 00:13:12,649
So for sports injury

335
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:13,929
or potentially

336
00:13:14,549 --> 00:13:15,610
military injuries,

337
00:13:16,070 --> 00:13:19,110
there's a potential use again for the sensors

338
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:20,250
in brain imaging.

339
00:13:20,709 --> 00:13:23,769
And and David, what about non medical applications?

340
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:26,404
I mean, it sounds there's enough medical applications

341
00:13:26,465 --> 00:13:28,625
keep you busy for a very long time,

342
00:13:28,625 --> 00:13:31,285
but have you looked at non medical applications?

343
00:13:31,585 --> 00:13:33,684
So CIRCA haven't specifically.

344
00:13:33,985 --> 00:13:36,965
CIRCA are very much a medical imaging company,

345
00:13:37,345 --> 00:13:39,845
but I am very aware of other applications

346
00:13:41,230 --> 00:13:44,990
for imaging, for example, car batteries. So this

347
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:47,549
has a real potential to be a big

348
00:13:47,549 --> 00:13:48,049
market.

349
00:13:48,669 --> 00:13:50,449
When they make car batteries,

350
00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:53,235
it's a chemistry that goes into the cells.

351
00:13:53,475 --> 00:13:55,794
If you can actually image those during the

352
00:13:55,794 --> 00:13:57,014
production process,

353
00:13:57,475 --> 00:14:00,534
you can effectively optimize that production process

354
00:14:01,075 --> 00:14:02,774
during the, production

355
00:14:03,235 --> 00:14:03,735
cycle,

356
00:14:04,195 --> 00:14:07,254
and therefore reduce your costs of battery production,

357
00:14:07,315 --> 00:14:08,454
which has a real

358
00:14:09,009 --> 00:14:11,809
potential benefit for use in electric cars and

359
00:14:11,809 --> 00:14:12,709
other applications.

360
00:14:13,490 --> 00:14:15,730
And and David, during your talk, you and

361
00:14:15,730 --> 00:14:18,149
Margo spoke together here at this Commercializing

362
00:14:18,450 --> 00:14:18,950
Quantum

363
00:14:19,490 --> 00:14:19,990
Conference.

364
00:14:20,529 --> 00:14:22,610
I mean, one thing about this this conference

365
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:24,714
is that it looks towards the future,

366
00:14:25,414 --> 00:14:26,934
and there's a lot of, you know, sort

367
00:14:26,934 --> 00:14:27,914
of great plans

368
00:14:28,695 --> 00:14:30,934
being talked about. But one thing that really

369
00:14:30,934 --> 00:14:33,254
struck me when you spoke is that you

370
00:14:33,254 --> 00:14:35,674
said the the company was founded in 2020.

371
00:14:35,815 --> 00:14:38,110
Did I get that right? Yes. And that

372
00:14:38,110 --> 00:14:41,250
you've had, what, a positive cash flow ever

373
00:14:41,549 --> 00:14:43,470
every year since. Is that right? So you're

374
00:14:43,470 --> 00:14:43,970
actually

375
00:14:44,269 --> 00:14:46,589
you're doing things. You're making products. You're selling

376
00:14:46,589 --> 00:14:48,990
them, which, you know, is is that fairly

377
00:14:48,990 --> 00:14:50,690
unique for a quantum company?

378
00:14:51,389 --> 00:14:53,925
I believe it's unique for a quantum company.

379
00:14:53,925 --> 00:14:56,325
I'm obviously not aware of all the quantum

380
00:14:56,325 --> 00:14:56,825
companies,

381
00:14:57,365 --> 00:14:58,264
accounts, but

382
00:14:58,805 --> 00:15:01,285
we are in a good position in that

383
00:15:01,285 --> 00:15:04,425
we've been able to deliver our initial systems

384
00:15:04,485 --> 00:15:05,945
to the research Right. Market

385
00:15:06,404 --> 00:15:07,144
and actually

386
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:10,870
deliver them for revenue, and we have made

387
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:13,990
profit every year since we started trading. We

388
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:15,850
have then reinvested that profit

389
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:19,990
back into further development. So for example, looking

390
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:21,914
at scanning 2 people at once,

391
00:15:22,235 --> 00:15:22,735
looking

392
00:15:23,195 --> 00:15:25,534
at other techniques so that we can continue

393
00:15:25,595 --> 00:15:28,174
to develop the product, and most importantly,

394
00:15:28,794 --> 00:15:31,695
for us, looking at the medical device approval.

395
00:15:32,074 --> 00:15:34,809
At the moment, our system is only sold

396
00:15:34,809 --> 00:15:36,190
to research institutes.

397
00:15:36,730 --> 00:15:39,309
We want to get, clinical approval

398
00:15:39,769 --> 00:15:41,610
in order to enable us to have the

399
00:15:41,610 --> 00:15:43,149
biggest societal impact

400
00:15:43,450 --> 00:15:46,250
for the product. We we believe if the

401
00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:49,514
product was available in every hospital, every doctor

402
00:15:49,754 --> 00:15:51,695
surgery, it could have some real

403
00:15:52,075 --> 00:15:56,154
big societal impact across the lifespan from scanning

404
00:15:56,154 --> 00:15:59,434
young children to scanning older people in the

405
00:15:59,434 --> 00:16:00,495
twilight years.

406
00:16:00,875 --> 00:16:02,950
Well, that's great. Thanks, David. Thanks for for

407
00:16:02,950 --> 00:16:05,590
filling us in on that. And, Margo, thanks

408
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:07,670
for coming on the podcast as well. Oh,

409
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:09,670
it was a pleasure talking with you. Thank

410
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:10,170
you.

411
00:16:16,695 --> 00:16:19,834
CIRCA is a pioneer in the medical application

412
00:16:20,294 --> 00:16:21,674
of quantum technology.

413
00:16:22,534 --> 00:16:25,514
And no doubt, many companies around the world

414
00:16:25,654 --> 00:16:27,914
would want to emulate its success.

415
00:16:28,860 --> 00:16:31,419
While at the conference, I caught up with

416
00:16:31,419 --> 00:16:32,320
Stuart Nicholl,

417
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:36,799
who is chief investment officer at Quantum Exponential,

418
00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:41,200
a UK based company that invests in quantum

419
00:16:41,259 --> 00:16:41,759
startups.

420
00:16:42,644 --> 00:16:44,745
We chatted about the medical sector,

421
00:16:45,125 --> 00:16:46,105
and in particular,

422
00:16:46,485 --> 00:16:49,144
about a company that is making a crucial

423
00:16:49,685 --> 00:16:51,384
eye imaging technology

424
00:16:52,165 --> 00:16:52,985
more accessible.

425
00:17:02,669 --> 00:17:03,409
So Stuart,

426
00:17:03,870 --> 00:17:07,490
Quantum Exponential is an investor in quantum technologies.

427
00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:08,929
Do you see medicine

428
00:17:09,309 --> 00:17:10,210
as an important

429
00:17:10,589 --> 00:17:11,089
application

430
00:17:11,549 --> 00:17:13,009
for quantum tech?

431
00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:16,164
Yeah. Absolutely. I guess it's the use case

432
00:17:16,164 --> 00:17:17,384
that we we hope

433
00:17:17,764 --> 00:17:20,585
most quantum will be, geared towards, albeit

434
00:17:21,044 --> 00:17:22,825
the current needs of defense,

435
00:17:24,005 --> 00:17:26,264
and environmental protection, you know,

436
00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:28,259
will mean it's used in those ways as

437
00:17:28,259 --> 00:17:29,960
well. I see. Okay.

438
00:17:30,579 --> 00:17:33,220
You've got a company called Cyloton. Have I

439
00:17:33,220 --> 00:17:36,659
said that right? Cyloton. Cyloton. I'm I'm My

440
00:17:36,659 --> 00:17:37,159
apologies.

441
00:17:39,220 --> 00:17:41,794
In your portfolio, and it's developing technology for

442
00:17:41,794 --> 00:17:42,755
medicine. Can you tell us about that company?

443
00:17:42,755 --> 00:17:43,255
Yeah.

444
00:17:43,634 --> 00:17:46,035
So they, they've developed based in Bristol, they've

445
00:17:46,035 --> 00:17:47,815
developed, photonic integrated chip,

446
00:17:53,539 --> 00:17:55,240
which they are using to

447
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:56,440
shrink

448
00:17:56,740 --> 00:17:57,240
the

449
00:17:57,940 --> 00:17:58,440
eye

450
00:17:59,140 --> 00:18:00,119
measurement monitoring

451
00:18:00,980 --> 00:18:02,839
soft system that you would typically

452
00:18:03,140 --> 00:18:04,980
have in a hospital or an optician to

453
00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:05,720
look at

454
00:18:06,019 --> 00:18:08,359
in the initial use case of macular degeneration.

455
00:18:09,075 --> 00:18:10,595
So they've been able to basically, they can

456
00:18:10,595 --> 00:18:11,494
turn that into

457
00:18:11,954 --> 00:18:12,615
a rugged,

458
00:18:14,115 --> 00:18:14,615
portable

459
00:18:15,315 --> 00:18:17,174
unit, so people can hopefully

460
00:18:17,554 --> 00:18:20,115
monitor their eye health better, which is very

461
00:18:20,115 --> 00:18:22,534
important, in something like macular degeneration

462
00:18:22,859 --> 00:18:25,579
because as it begins to degrade or it

463
00:18:25,579 --> 00:18:26,079
changes,

464
00:18:26,539 --> 00:18:27,039
form,

465
00:18:27,579 --> 00:18:29,599
you're you're much more likely to save

466
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:32,460
the eyesight or reduce its decline, and and

467
00:18:32,460 --> 00:18:35,579
that has, obviously, significant benefits to the patient,

468
00:18:35,579 --> 00:18:36,904
but also a lot

469
00:18:38,404 --> 00:18:41,605
cheaper, for the health service as well. And

470
00:18:41,605 --> 00:18:44,244
and we have covered that company, on Physics

471
00:18:44,244 --> 00:18:46,404
World. And so in the notes for this

472
00:18:46,404 --> 00:18:46,904
podcast,

473
00:18:47,365 --> 00:18:48,240
I'll, I'll mention

474
00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:51,679
Actually, I think it was a podcast interview

475
00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:53,839
as well. But I'll mention that in the

476
00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:54,339
notes.

477
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,359
And and, Stuart, beyond medicine, what else is

478
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:58,019
the company,

479
00:18:58,799 --> 00:18:59,779
interested in?

480
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,759
Yeah. So we we we have a focus

481
00:19:01,759 --> 00:19:04,464
on investing in quantum technology, but we take

482
00:19:04,464 --> 00:19:06,464
that broad view of that, and that could

483
00:19:06,464 --> 00:19:07,284
even include,

484
00:19:09,024 --> 00:19:11,105
the supply chain for quantum, I think, is

485
00:19:11,105 --> 00:19:12,565
is pretty important as well.

486
00:19:12,865 --> 00:19:15,345
But currently, we have 7 investments. One's in

487
00:19:15,345 --> 00:19:16,724
quantum secure encryption,

488
00:19:18,750 --> 00:19:21,389
3, including a silicon, are in sensors, and

489
00:19:21,389 --> 00:19:22,609
the further 3

490
00:19:22,990 --> 00:19:25,470
are in quantum compute. I see. And you're

491
00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:26,609
here at the Commercializing

492
00:19:27,549 --> 00:19:29,085
Quantum Conference in

493
00:19:29,565 --> 00:19:30,065
London.

494
00:19:30,845 --> 00:19:33,565
Has anything new caught your eye? You you've

495
00:19:33,565 --> 00:19:35,484
been in the sessions. I've seen you there.

496
00:19:35,484 --> 00:19:38,044
Is there anything interesting that you've seen, so

497
00:19:38,044 --> 00:19:38,544
far?

498
00:19:38,924 --> 00:19:41,325
I think there's there's there's general optimism that

499
00:19:41,325 --> 00:19:42,625
we are actually getting

500
00:19:43,059 --> 00:19:43,880
closer to

501
00:19:44,339 --> 00:19:44,839
commercially

502
00:19:45,380 --> 00:19:45,880
sold,

503
00:19:46,420 --> 00:19:47,080
and useful,

504
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:50,820
devices and equipments, and then my personal view

505
00:19:50,820 --> 00:19:52,580
is that then the software will will build

506
00:19:52,580 --> 00:19:53,559
on top of that.

507
00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:56,474
So that's great. So it's it's I think

508
00:19:56,474 --> 00:19:59,674
it's coming sooner than society realizes it is,

509
00:19:59,674 --> 00:20:01,615
and it will have significant advantages

510
00:20:02,075 --> 00:20:05,215
for us across, you know, all sectors, really.

511
00:20:05,275 --> 00:20:07,850
And and Stuart, earlier I was talking, to

512
00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:10,250
Margo Taylor and David Woolger about,

513
00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:11,230
magnetometry,

514
00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:13,070
quantum sensing,

515
00:20:13,850 --> 00:20:16,650
and, you you know, how successful CIRCA has

516
00:20:16,650 --> 00:20:17,150
been.

517
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:20,250
But, you you you've just mentioned to me

518
00:20:20,250 --> 00:20:22,984
that, there's a shortage of these sensors.

519
00:20:23,764 --> 00:20:25,125
Can can you talk a bit about that

520
00:20:25,125 --> 00:20:26,804
and how that could be resolved? Yeah. I

521
00:20:26,804 --> 00:20:28,565
think in general, there's a need to make

522
00:20:28,565 --> 00:20:30,504
the quantum supply chain more robust,

523
00:20:31,524 --> 00:20:33,384
and there is a magnetometer

524
00:20:33,684 --> 00:20:35,839
sensors can do can, you know,

525
00:20:36,140 --> 00:20:38,619
achieve an awful lot of different things, but

526
00:20:38,619 --> 00:20:40,640
there isn't really the supply chain globally

527
00:20:41,579 --> 00:20:43,579
available for that at the moment. So we're

528
00:20:43,740 --> 00:20:46,380
we are actively looking as an investment company

529
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:47,055
at others

530
00:20:52,975 --> 00:20:55,955
basically creating a better production line for them.

531
00:20:56,894 --> 00:20:59,929
Is that a a general issue in quantum

532
00:21:00,549 --> 00:21:02,549
where I suppose there's lots of great ideas

533
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:03,450
about technology,

534
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:07,589
but sometimes getting somebody to actually make it

535
00:21:07,589 --> 00:21:09,750
in a in quantities that are required for

536
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:10,730
commercial applications

537
00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:13,244
can be a problem. And I'm guessing that's

538
00:21:13,325 --> 00:21:15,105
an opportunity for people like you.

539
00:21:15,805 --> 00:21:17,585
It is. Yeah. I mean, these these

540
00:21:18,204 --> 00:21:20,765
need government assistance as well to create the

541
00:21:20,765 --> 00:21:23,085
kind of facilities that you need to in

542
00:21:23,085 --> 00:21:25,724
order then to produce the pieces of equipment

543
00:21:25,724 --> 00:21:27,779
at the right, you know, size,

544
00:21:28,319 --> 00:21:29,359
cost, and,

545
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:30,740
a level of

546
00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:31,539
sophistication.

547
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,640
But, yeah, something something we're interested in. And

548
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,960
and that needs to start now because you

549
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:37,940
don't want to

550
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,005
get to the point where you're ready for

551
00:21:40,005 --> 00:21:42,085
a commercial rollout, but then there's no way

552
00:21:42,085 --> 00:21:44,085
of creating the devices. Or if they are,

553
00:21:44,085 --> 00:21:46,484
they they turn out faulty and people get

554
00:21:46,484 --> 00:21:48,805
disappointed in them. Well, that's great. Thanks for

555
00:21:48,805 --> 00:21:50,585
taking the time to speak to me, Stuart.

556
00:21:50,724 --> 00:21:51,224
Pleasure.

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00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,680
I'm afraid that's all the time we have

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00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,740
for this week's podcast. Thanks to Margo Taylor,

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00:22:02,039 --> 00:22:05,080
David Wilgar, and Stuart Nickel for joining me

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00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,820
today. And a special thanks to our producer,

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00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:08,775
Fred Iles.

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00:22:09,494 --> 00:22:11,734
We'll be back again next week when our

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00:22:11,734 --> 00:22:13,515
guest is Christophe Roussel,

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00:22:13,894 --> 00:22:16,934
who is a condensed matter physicist who spent

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00:22:16,934 --> 00:22:19,835
many years at IBM's lab in Zurich.

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00:22:20,455 --> 00:22:23,480
Roussel is a past president of the European

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00:22:23,779 --> 00:22:24,920
Physical Society,

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00:22:25,380 --> 00:22:27,799
and he talks about the grand challenges

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00:22:28,339 --> 00:22:29,880
facing Europe's physicists

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00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:32,440
over the next 25 years.

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00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:35,640
And looking a bit further into the future,

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00:22:36,099 --> 00:22:39,914
on the 29th August, I'm in conversation with

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00:22:39,914 --> 00:22:40,975
Elena Blachina

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00:22:41,515 --> 00:22:43,375
who is chief scientific

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00:22:43,674 --> 00:22:45,455
officer at Equal One.

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00:22:45,994 --> 00:22:47,855
The Irish company has created

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00:22:48,475 --> 00:22:52,390
hybrid quantum classical chips and was this year's

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00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:54,890
winner of the Institute of Physics

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00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:57,289
Quantum Business Innovation

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00:22:57,750 --> 00:23:00,890
and Growth Prize or QBIG prize.

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00:23:01,269 --> 00:23:04,170
So tune in for both of those conversations

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00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:06,330
over the next few weeks.