Former Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. on Mattingly replacing Thomson

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, let's talk to one of the stars of the Phillies show, Ruben and mar Junior former Gem of the Phillies, joining us right now. Ruben, thank you dude for hopping on with us. What do you got for us, what's happening out there? And can you take us inside the decision making process of why now and if you think things will change for the Phillies with Don Mattingly taking over.

00:00:23
Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost, let me just say something. I have a great deal of respect for Rob Thompson. I think he's a phenomenal baseball man, a great person, and I think he did a hell of a job for this organization.

00:00:32
Speaker 3: But at some point, tough decisions have to be made.

00:00:36
Speaker 2: They have had great expectations of this ball club and they just had not produced, and so sometimes you just have to make decisions right and or wrong.

00:00:48
Speaker 3: You know, this is the decision that they made.

00:00:50
Speaker 2: Now they're replacing him with a man I have a great deal of respect for as well, and.

00:00:53
Speaker 3: Don Mattingley, and so.

00:00:55
Speaker 2: Again, not all that surprised that this happened, disappointed for the man who got to let go, but you know, this is part of the game, and I think Rob Thompson knows this as well as anybody. He worked for George stein Better for many, many years and he sort of understands how this stuff works. But he did a lot for the Phillies, and I listen, I think Dave Dombrowski was, you know, under a great deal of pressure too, because this is a team that's grossly underachieved in every aspect of the game. I do think that there are other people on staff, and there are other people and players in particular, who you know, are going to be under the gun. I mean, the players did not perform, and there's some damn good players who have not performed, and unfortunately, you know, somebody had to take the fall. In this case, it was Rob Thompson. But I do think that there's gonna be scrutiny across the board, the analytics folks, the pitching coach, the hitting coach, the whole nine yards. I think everybody is being evaluated. That's part of the game. You're being evaluated all the time, and all aspects of the the ball club have been sort of underachieving, and I do think it's you know, you're going to continue to have those sorts of assessments as you move forward in this season.

00:02:12
Speaker 4: Rubin what goes into the GM, the Director of Baseball's finally making this decision? Right, does the fans in all the heat that's been in Philly the last couple of weeks, go into this? Is that what makes you pull the trigger? Is it just meeting with the owner that makes you pull the trigger?

00:02:27
Speaker 3: What is it that.

00:02:28
Speaker 4: Finally says to the GM President of Baseball Ops, Okay, it's time to go in a different direction.

00:02:36
Speaker 5: A Jay.

00:02:36
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things where I mean, you basically get information from everybody, whether it's the people above you, the people below you, and the people with you, and I think it's a all encompassing decision. And believe me, I've been there and done it, and I can tell you that these are some of the most difficult decisions to make because because of the fondness that you have and the relationships that you build with your people, and to.

00:03:03
Speaker 3: Make this sort of you know, this sort of move is not easy.

00:03:08
Speaker 2: But I think that you gather as much information and see, you know, a change needs to be made.

00:03:14
Speaker 3: So obviously the players are not performing.

00:03:16
Speaker 2: You can't get rid of twenty six players, and so someone has to take the fall, and quite often it is the manager who does.

00:03:25
Speaker 3: And so this this is one of those situations.

00:03:29
Speaker 2: And you know, it's in the hopes that having a new voice in the clubhouse making, you know, making different types of decisions perhaps will help this team get better. I've made a decision in twenty ten to remove Milton Thompson, who was a very good friend of mine and a teammate, out of that position of the hitting coach. It happened to turn our team around. I don't think it was because of that move, but a different voice. I think it was Greg Gross that we put in place. It just sort of changed the dynamics of things and we ended up, you know, playing very.

00:04:04
Speaker 3: Much better after that.

00:04:05
Speaker 2: You saw it happen when Joe Giardi was let go and Rob Thompson took over. So sometimes just a different voice can help move the team forward.

00:04:15
Speaker 3: We'll see what happens in this case.

00:04:17
Speaker 6: I want to hear your side of it from when you fired or came to agreement with Chuck, because I was a player on the team at the same time Charlie Manual and decided you decided to go with Ryan Samberg because as a player, side of it. I felt like I failed Charlie. We didn't play good enough to keep his job. And I remember Rhino saying the same thing, like, as a coach, I feel like I failed Charlie because we didn't win games and he's part of that whole team. Why is the after you say that part, after you say you're part of firing Charlie is why does the why does baseball just feel like, Okay, well, yeah, we just got to go ahead and fire this guy because it's twenty eight games in. You built the team, you made this team who they are, and yet you're firing the one guy who's trying to keep the clubhouse together.

00:05:10
Speaker 2: I think it was a totally different situation when we let we decided to sort of reassign Charlie Manuel and took him out of that position. Yes, I know that the players were not happy with me because he meant so much to them, and I was not happy. I mean, if you remember that press conference was pretty emotional for me because I consider him a great friend and a great manager. But it was a situation for me that you know, I felt like I had failed him with the talent that I had given him, and I felt like it was almost in a lot of ways, a relief to get him out of that position so that we can bring someone else for the transition that we had to make. And you know, listen, I remember going into that clubhouse and telling the coach, he saiff, Hey, sorry, guys, this is what I've dealt. You try to do the best with this group as you possibly can. I think this is a different situation because the expectations are way higher. This is a team that has a three hundred million dollar payroll and a team that where the expectations to have success, you know, especially in Philadelphia and this this type of marketplace.

00:06:13
Speaker 3: You know, you're you're.

00:06:14
Speaker 2: You put a lot of you put a lot of ducats into this ball club. And there's some really talented players here. They're just not getting it.

00:06:21
Speaker 3: Done right now.

00:06:21
Speaker 2: And and uh, I think that Dave Nebrowski probably didn't want to let this season get away. And there's still an opportunity to bounce back and get into a wild card race. It's totally different than it was, you know, a couple of decades ago, where or even a decade ago, where you have an opportunity to get in that third wild card and who knows. If you're playing hot baseball and you got some quality teams and quality arms, you got a chance to win. So I think Dave Dombrowski decided, well, this is the time to make this move, and hopefully it'll spark this team and shake them up a little bit and maybe move it, move it forward so they can start playing better baseball.

00:06:57
Speaker 6: We love our Dogabella, who's really just accounts cushion.

00:06:59
Speaker 1: In our house, and you would do anything for her. A quick message from today's sponsor, the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. If you've ever been frantically searching what to do for an issue with your pup, you are not alone. The program offers customizable accent and illness plans, making it easier to get your pet the care they need. When you enroll in an ASPCA Pet Health Insurance plan, you could get a twenty five dollars Amazon gift card. It's a little treat for you while you're doing something great for your pet. To explore coverage, visit ASPCA Pet Insurance dot com slash foul. That's ASPCA Pet Insurance dot com slash foul. Eligible restrictions apply. Visit ASPCA Pet Insurance dot com slash Amazon terms for more info. This is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not an insurance and is not engaged in the business of insurance.

00:07:58
Speaker 6: Would GM ever make a decision like that US firing somebody to save his own neck?

00:08:04
Speaker 2: I think it's possible, but I don't think that in the in the case of David de Brown's game, he's been around too long, that's not that's not his modus operandi.

00:08:12
Speaker 3: I mean, this guy's got a Hall of Fame GM.

00:08:14
Speaker 2: I think he's had a lot of success in the game.

00:08:17
Speaker 3: He's had a lot of success here in Philadelphia. I what has it happened? Will it happen? Maybe? But I certainly don't think that that is the case in this case. M okay, all right?

00:08:34
Speaker 1: Team wise, Rubin, is there anything that you would look at or do? I know you can't really make trades or do too much. We were going over this earlier, but lineup switches and then eventually trade deadline would be around the corner. If this team stays relevant enough, what can you do or is it one of those where it's like, hey, the pitching staff should recover Wheeler just came back. They need to hit.

00:09:00
Speaker 2: To me, it's the pitching staff has to be.

00:09:03
Speaker 3: The pitching staff.

00:09:05
Speaker 2: Pitching and defense are the two things that you absolutely have to have to contend every day. And the pitching staff, the starting pitching staff in particular, is the one that I've sort of most disappointed in right now because they have not lived up to the bargain. And you know, when you have names like and it's great to have Wheeler back, you didn't have him. When you have Sanchez and Lozardo and Nola and Wheeler and a very good young arm and Andrew Paynter, this is a staff that should be much better. And the fact that their eer A is one of the worst, if not the worst, in the league, and all the numbers across the board, that's a concern. I think part of the issue here is their overall defense. They've not been helped a whole lot by their defense. Yes, a lot of teams are having a lot of success against these guys, but defensively they haven't really made the plays that are necessary. I don't know, I have some question about myself about some of the defensive positioning. I you know, I use my eyes to make make certain assessments of what's going on. A lot of balls falling in in certain spots that maybe should not, a lot of ball plays not being made.

00:10:15
Speaker 3: So to me, you know, it's a combination of things.

00:10:19
Speaker 2: I do think that this staff, this pitching staff, is way too talented to be held down all season long. And I do predict that they will get better and when and if they do, this team's going to be much better for it. It'll take the heat off the hitting a little bit because when you're behind, as you know Aja, when you're behind and Cratsy, you're behind early every single game and you're trying to climb out of the out of the seller so to speak, every single game down three or four or five or six runs.

00:10:49
Speaker 3: It makes it really difficult for the offense to click.

00:10:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, wasn't the defensive problem in the last few years. Isn't that the we got to get rid of Castillanos. You can't play defense right where we're about Boem's defense, worried about you know, left field with marsh and whoever's in centerfield defense. Hasn't this been a thing, but they didn't do anything to correct it this offseason, did they.

00:11:12
Speaker 3: Well?

00:11:12
Speaker 2: Trade Turner, I got to give a lot of credit to Trade Turner for last year. He how much he improved from from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five. I haven't seen all the metrics on where he is defensively this year.

00:11:25
Speaker 3: I don't think it's been the same.

00:11:27
Speaker 2: There have been some errors and some mistakes in the middle infield that you.

00:11:31
Speaker 3: Sort of didn't anticipate happening.

00:11:33
Speaker 2: And they have a new center fielder in Crawford who I think will develop into equality and center fielder, but he hasn't quite gotten there.

00:11:42
Speaker 3: He's playing deeper.

00:11:43
Speaker 2: There's a lot of balls that are that are dropping in on him just because he moved back on the ball maybe a little bit better than he does coming in. So there's there's some elements there. I do believe in the corner guys defensively, as far as the left fielder and the right fielder, I think marsh is a solid left fielder, Garcia is outstanding in right field, and uh And I think actually boom And on the corners in the infield, boom And and uh Harper are actually really improved Boom Bom has been. He was a guy that for me, you know, there was some question early in his career whether or not this guy could be an everyday championship calver third basement. But he's actually gotten better and better and over the years. And Harper's been very good at first base. So there are some defensive metrics. I don't know if there's the positioning. I'm not really sure how to break it all down, but there are there are a whole lot of balls that are being made, you know, that are not contacted all that hard, that are falling in. I'm not sure what the total answer is there, but it's certainly something to uh to take a look at.

00:12:48
Speaker 6: I mean, like Charlie said, you gotta hit, and a lot of guys who hit, and they ain't hitting right now, so we got to get the hitting season. Is this team gonna figure it out or is there a systemic issue of the fact that they're hitting some homers but they have low batting average, low amount of pitches per at bat. I think they're the lowest amount of pitches per at bat, some of the highest chase chase rate after the first pitch, Like there's some stark bad things that are going on. Do you see that change in the offense happening or is it Well, I just know these guys are good, so they have to be able to change.

00:13:31
Speaker 2: I do think that there's some some not panic, but I think there's there's a situation now that.

00:13:37
Speaker 3: These guys have sort of fallen.

00:13:38
Speaker 2: But you know, some of the players, I mean, Marsha's swinging the bat well, Harper swinging the bat well. Other than that, not a whole lot of like consistent production. One of the things that I noticed from this team that I've been watching is that it just feels like wherever whatever the count is, whether it's one to oher, one two three, one three to zero, it almost feels like and not necessarily to a man, but in a lot of situations that the players are swinging the bat like it's an O two count, like it's almost like you're giving the credit too much credit to the pitchers and listen. I think part of it is because guys maybe trying to press a little bit, trying to do too much.

00:14:25
Speaker 3: They know that there's expectations on them.

00:14:28
Speaker 2: These are really good hitters with really excellent backs of their baseball cards and I don't see that this is necessarily an issue of them getting really old, really fast. I just feel like the overall approach when they get in the box, I don't think that they're able to relax a lot.

00:14:45
Speaker 3: You remember this Cratsy when when Charlie Mariner.

00:14:49
Speaker 2: Used to say, you know, you've got to be relaxed, and you can't be thinking too much when you're hitting.

00:14:54
Speaker 3: And I think what's happening is two things.

00:14:56
Speaker 2: I think they're thinking way too much, and I do think that they're not very relaxed, and.

00:15:01
Speaker 3: That's a that's a tough way to hit.

00:15:03
Speaker 2: And uh and I see that in not just one or two guys, I see it in several.

00:15:10
Speaker 4: Rubin, was Alex Score really an option here or was that? I mean, I know they might have reached out to him, but was that really an option? And were you did you like the way his firing went down in Boston? I know you worked there for a little bit, so you're kind of a part of that. But was he really an option? Did they say, Alex, will you take this note? Okay, Donnie, you're a choice now?

00:15:30
Speaker 2: In my mind, I don't think that he was in He might have been an option they may have reached out to him.

00:15:36
Speaker 3: I don't know that he necessarily was offered that job.

00:15:39
Speaker 2: With Don Manningly sitting right there, it just doesn't really make that much sense to me. Yes, I was a little surprised by the Alex Korra decision, but no one really knows what's going on in the inner workings of that front office.

00:15:55
Speaker 3: I certainly don't know Craig Breslo. I don't know how what he was.

00:15:58
Speaker 2: Thinking and why he was making that move, but there had to be a reason. I was again just a little surprised by it as well, But listen, this is part of the game. These are tough decisions. I don't know that he and I know that was being reported out there that Alex Corr was offered the job. I don't know that that necessarily was true. I couldn't tell you because I haven't talked to Alex and I haven't talked to Dave Dombrowski about it. But with a man like Don Manningley sitting there, I would have it would have been strange for him to be offered the job and then have Don Manningley then become the bench coach for him, or what have you.

00:16:38
Speaker 3: That just seems like a strange dynamic to me.

00:16:41
Speaker 2: And uh and and so if it feels a little far fetched, but hey, anything's possible. I'm not in those conversations. And listen, I have a great deal of respect for Don Manningly. I love the way he managed the Miami Marlins. He's had managerial experience. He's a Hall of Fame baseball player, yet automatic cachet. And uh and I you know, if you're gonna replace a gentleman like Rob Thompson and a person who has had a lot of success and understands the game with another person, uh, Don Mattingly is as good a choice as you can make, because he is also somebody I have a great deal of respect for, as far as being the type of person he is and the type of baseball man he is.

00:17:22
Speaker 5: Todd Father, it's getting a little warm out, and that means let's hit some concerts, let's hit some baseball games. And where am I going to go to find those tickets? And if you want to sing the answer you can, We're.

00:17:33
Speaker 7: Going to seek Hey, hey, listen. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it is getting warmer, and people want to leave the house and it's time to leave, go see a ball game. I guess where you can find the best tickets, best spots, best places to go.

00:17:46
Speaker 3: Seat.

00:17:46
Speaker 7: Geeks got it all, man. They got their red and their green signs, letting you know what's good in bed, all that good kind of stuff. They make it really simple for you at the end of the day. For a guy like me who's running around, I just need five minutes bing bang bom, I got my seat.

00:18:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:18:00
Speaker 1: Each tickets rated on a scale of one to ten, so you know you're getting a good deal. And of course the code for you Territory one zero for ten percent off your next set of tickets at Sea Geek. That's ten percent off any tickets with promote code Territory tent. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and then have the code automatically added to your account so you can use it later. Thank you to see Geek MLB's official ticket marketplace.

00:18:24
Speaker 6: I asked this to Ken Rosenthal. You know these guys, what's going to be the difference? You saw it you were with the you were on the broadcast team with me when they got rid of Joe Girardi. They're different Joe Girardi was a different person than Rob Thompson. Ken Rosenthal said, you know, I don't see them in the clubhouse as much, but I know both guys. They're very similar people. What's going to be the difference when Don Mattingly comes in to replace Topper here?

00:18:49
Speaker 3: That's a great question, and uh, I think it's just a different voice.

00:18:52
Speaker 2: I do believe in that, in the fact that they have very similar personalities.

00:18:58
Speaker 3: They're different people.

00:18:59
Speaker 2: Obviously I want to disrespect either one of them, but as far as how they treat their players, how they handle themselves.

00:19:08
Speaker 3: And the type of people, they are very very similar guys.

00:19:12
Speaker 2: I think Dave Dombrowski and John Middleton are hopeful that you know, just a different voice and maybe some you know, slightly different ideas will change some things around. I don't know that that will happen, but I'm certainly as a as a you know, a long time employee and a fan of the Phillies, I certainly hope so. But again, and sometimes that's all it takes is a change. Like I said before about the move that we made early in twenty ten, sometimes just a different voice will will catapult this team and maybe jolt the players into understanding that, hey, you guys got to kick it into all.

00:19:54
Speaker 6: Right, doom and gloom last doom and gloom question, it doesn't turn around. This is a historically bad season at the end of the year with this payroll. Are Phillies fans looking at the twenty twelve to two thousand and nineteen the start of another just abysmal period in Phillies baseball because of the fact that they have Harper for nineteen more years, they have Trey Turner for eighteen more years, they have Schwarber for four more years, like they just signed JT's inc.

00:20:26
Speaker 3: Is still wet?

00:20:29
Speaker 2: I don't think so, because I think the level of talent still there and I see I know some of these guys that the the odometers are starting to click on them. But they do have some talented kids. The Aiden Miller kids is going to be coming. I know he's got some back issues. They have Painter, they have a guy like Crawford. So there's some play young players there that are still under contract that I think are pretty darn good, who are going to be under contract for some time. Is there is there They're a fear of that the of that Cliff, I guess there is. But I think as far as overall talent and the fact that even though they have the dominant readings are starting to go north, I do think that these guys take care of themselves in a way that's sort of unprecedented as far as how they eat and how they you know, whether they stand at night. These guys aren't going out and partying like like we once did. They these guys take care of themselves physically much better than than than.

00:21:29
Speaker 3: We ever did.

00:21:30
Speaker 2: And so I feel like there's a there's still a window for these guys to continue to have success, but it's a matter of just getting it done on the field and relaxing and playing baseball.

00:21:41
Speaker 1: Hey, Ruben, last one for me, how would it go if you had a kid to manage?

00:21:48
Speaker 3: Uh?

00:21:48
Speaker 1: Well wait, actually flip this. If you were running a team or you were coaching a team and then you were being told what to do by your kid, that is what is partially going to happen right now. And I don't want to overlook that. I just thought of that at the buzzer. I was like, hold on, this is the cool story, but what if there is real dissension Donnie's a pretty laid back dude, But I just think it's a funny dynamic. His son, Preston's doing a nice job in the front office as the general manager. It is a prominent part of the front office day to day operations, and now his dad is managing the team.

00:22:24
Speaker 3: Well.

00:22:24
Speaker 2: I had a sort of a same similar situation with me and my dad because my dad was actually part of the Phillies organization when I became the assistant GM, and my dad was actually one of our infield instructors, and he also at some point was the manager of one of our lower.

00:22:42
Speaker 3: Minor league teams. So I've been there and done it.

00:22:45
Speaker 2: I think that these guys respect each other very much and care about each other very much. But I also think that there's I think that there's probably a very healthy you know, it sounds strange, but it's a you know, pressed Manningly did his thing on his own. He didn't do what he's done in the game because of his dad. He did it because of the love of the game and vice versa. I mean, you know, Don Mattingly did his job and is the person who he is because he's Don Mattingly. So I think that there's they will they will separate things, they will be they will be professional about it, and I think it's a really cool dynamic to be honest with you.

00:23:25
Speaker 6: Wait, I have one quick one at the end. I just saw David the other day, and why is he so much taller than you? We played against this team. Why is that is not fair?

00:23:36
Speaker 3: Who are you talking about?

00:23:37
Speaker 6: Your Broham?

00:23:39
Speaker 3: Oh?

00:23:39
Speaker 2: My brother, he got all the jeans man. My grandfather was six'. Five he was a big monster From. CUBA i got my dad's hype. Man And i'm shrinking, exponentially SO i totally you, KNOW i got totally screwed out of the.

00:23:51
Speaker 6: DEAL i gave him a hug and he actually doesn't have women hands like. You he's got like a man hand and LIKE i gave him a, hug and we're like, cheeked cheek, like and you're just you're just so much. Shorter you're more of a utility. Guy he's more of a.

00:24:05
Speaker 3: Power, guy no, doubt no.

00:24:07
Speaker 2: Doubt in fact he was as a, youth he was a way better player THAN i.

00:24:10
Speaker 3: WAS i just got.

00:24:11
Speaker 1: Luckier, hey power brain that matters, Too so you got. That you got that part, Down ruben thank, you and oh, wait on the way, out can you just show us your sweatshirt a little more prominently the crowd because it's it's a great, logo and it's The philly The Philly showshop dot com, too and that's where you can Hear ruben on the. Show they crush it out, There. Ruben thank. You we'll catch you.

00:24:34
Speaker 3: Soon pick to be with, you.

00:24:36
Speaker 1: Guys we'll see as soon you, Too yes see as soon