Things That Make You Go Hmmm and What Could Stop The Eagles?

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're not defending our twenty twenty four championship. I'm Greg Roseal here in the Chris Westleyan podcast studio. Join for the third time this week. It's really happening, Jordan Rodrigue, I'm here. Yes, this is the week where it really got real that you're the most regular three times a week part of the show, except for the next couple of weeks, will be a little dicey because you're off.

00:00:31
Speaker 2: And you're doing training camps. Colleagues doing training camp.

00:00:33
Speaker 3: Yeah yah, a little colleague colleague special like the geo tag of where in the world am I.

00:00:38
Speaker 4: Patching in from for the next couple weeks for training camp.

00:00:40
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to hearing everything that you learn while you are.

00:00:44
Speaker 3: I know I always text you, so just for the listener, I text Greg often when I'm on the road, just things I'm seeing, loves that happen, things that I'm trying not to mess up as well, So.

00:00:54
Speaker 1: Little nugs and then yeah, before you know, it will be settling into our regular season schedule where we'll have same co host, same shows each and every week. And I do love this time of year because every show is a little bit different on this show. Gonna hit a little bit of news, Gonna hit a little couple things just make us go hmm.

00:01:11
Speaker 2: You know early in training. Give just something that's making us go.

00:01:15
Speaker 1: Just two things, and then we're gonna talk to our friends at the All phl Y Show, Zach Berman and Bo Wolf of We're referring to the Eagles off the top of the show because even if they weren't the defending champs, to me, they are just so talented, so interesting how they are run. They are one of the most fascinating teams in the league, and so looking forward to that deep dive into the Eagles. But first, as we always do, we'll talk a little bit of news. Trey Hendrickson has shown up to Bengals training camp since we last spoke. Says he's not going to be a distraction. He wants to be involved in all the meetings. It's a positive sign, I think, but it's also just a reflection of the CBA. He is fined I think, fifty thousand dollars every day and that cannot be given back by the team. It's mandatory, so you are just giving up a crazy amount of money. And we know, the Bengals aren't a team that is necessarily worried about that or his timeline, and so I know he was enjoying his time in Florida, but it makes sense that he's.

00:02:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also you know, really humid and sticky in Florida right now, you know, a little bit less so instant.

00:02:18
Speaker 1: No, but what I'm saying, I think they were over there one hundred on the heat index the other day, so it's wild there in Ohio.

00:02:24
Speaker 3: What I will say is, I do think this is a win win for Trey Hendrickson because not only is he avoiding that fine, he's also around teammates, but also the optics. I mean, he's out there. Fans can see him out there, fans can watch him walk in. There are videos of him walking in and still not dressed out, still without a contract. I think that the more visuals visuals of him being present but not signed to the extension does in its own way put some pressure on.

00:02:54
Speaker 4: The front office.

00:02:55
Speaker 3: And I mean, I guess we don't really have a reason that that this won't get done other than the fact that it's not done yet.

00:03:04
Speaker 1: At some point, it could be week one, like Jamar Chase and then we could be talking about at the end of the season how that ended up being a problem and why the offense started slow, and like in the cycle continues, Yeah, it continues.

00:03:14
Speaker 3: Are the goal next offseason is to not speak too soon in the process of any of this about any Bengals player.

00:03:23
Speaker 1: We say that every year and then it's like just a goal of week. I need things to talk about in the off season. It happens.

00:03:28
Speaker 2: People getting paid though.

00:03:30
Speaker 1: Bernard Ryman, Yeah got paid a left tackle not a lot of people probably familiar with. Once played on a professional team in Vienna. How about that, and now here he is getting paid like one hundred million dollars contract. It's funny to me because he occupies the exact same space that the former Colts left tackle Anthony Costanzo had, where he would get paid be that guy that's a really solid player, but not one of the top five necessarily at his position. But he's gotten better and better each and every year. So congrats to him. And that was a good piece of business by the Colts. I'm not sure if it was as good a piece of business for the Seahawks to sign their GM John Schneider for another four years through twenty thirty, a guy who doesn't necessarily have the highest approval rating I don't think from the Seahawks fan base, and yet sneakily because the ownership situation since the death of Paul Allen is, you know, maybe a little more absent than other ownership situations, like has as much power as just about any non coach in the league, John Schneider, and the fact that he has signed through twenty thirty gives him even more. So you better hope those offensive line moves worked out because he's got to. He was under a lot of heat last year and he's back for a while.

00:04:39
Speaker 3: You know, he has so much tenure already. You know, we were talking to RAMSGM Les Snead the other day and I do want to point out we got a note from a listener about you got to mention John Schneider up there in the ten year as well? Was it fourteen fifteen seasons at this point?

00:04:52
Speaker 2: So is he longer than Sneid? Did I mess that up?

00:04:55
Speaker 4: I don't know, I didn't look.

00:04:57
Speaker 1: Maybe part of it is that, yeah, because he was there with Carol from the beginning, was that I you know, Carol was a primary decision maker initially, but that's right, John Schneider's been there for a while and it might be an interesting situation because he had such a high risk offseason John Schneider in terms of how he rebuilt the offense, that if it doesn't go well, he'll be under a lot of heat.

00:05:19
Speaker 2: And yet he is signed for the next year fifteenth season.

00:05:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that the introductory press conference with you know him and Pete, but Pete hired him, it's worth pointing out, and now he is the man there also the man Baker Mayfield. Yes, love it when a little bit of newsis gets broken on a random interview with like a print writer, when that's Pete Prisco at CBS and Baker just kind of dropped into that interview that the Bucks have already guaranteed his twenty twenty sixth contract, like fully, that's actually a big item, and that they're working on a long term deal. So I do think that is a real show of faith in Baker. He is going to be the Buck quarterback next season, not like that there was much of a doubt, but what if this season had just gone horribly wrong. They had that out that like kind of like the old Geno or Derek Carr type of contract. It's like fully guaranteed he is there and wouldn't be surprised at all if they come to an agreement during this season to like have him long term.

00:06:19
Speaker 2: It really did happen.

00:06:20
Speaker 1: All the Baker believers got their best case scenario.

00:06:25
Speaker 3: We all had a meeting a couple of years ago. We said, Okay, any ounce of spare energy, any lucky tokens that you keep with you, let's all devote them to pushing this energy in one direction.

00:06:37
Speaker 4: And that is Baker Mayfield.

00:06:38
Speaker 3: No, but he is so I like watching when players thrive in environments that do seem like finally.

00:06:44
Speaker 2: The place they're supposed to be. It's one of my favorite things.

00:06:47
Speaker 3: We've seen it a lot with quarterbacks over the last couple of years, and Baker is no different because he is such a unique personality. He is such a gamer quarterback, and he has this sort of like aura around his orbit that players seem to like being around and wanting to play for. And that coordinator seemed to really gel with. I mean, think of how many recently before when he was jumping around teams and then recently now has has.

00:07:14
Speaker 1: Been in three years with the Bucks despite all the success. Yeah, you'r boyd. What is his crazy name? So it's Josh Bizard, right, but we're not allowed to call him King Gizzard and Lizard Wizard, King Grizzard, King Grizzard.

00:07:25
Speaker 2: I saw like a pitchfork link about King, so we'll just call him.

00:07:28
Speaker 4: But we're just gonna call him King Grizzard.

00:07:31
Speaker 2: Love him, yeah, and UH love him already.

00:07:34
Speaker 1: That's like an ideal situation for a quarterback. But if Sam Darnold was there, like, I don't think it would be going as well. I think Baker has taken it and made it his and they're working around his strengths and that man could always spin a football.

00:07:48
Speaker 2: There was never any doubt about that.

00:07:49
Speaker 1: Couple little injury items to get to uh not a little deal to Xavier Worthy that he suffered a concussion, but that is the reason why he left pract This the Chiefs down a couple of their top receivers right now. Hollywood Brown is also out of practice, but Xavier Worthy in the concussion protocol and no need to rush him back. Zach Moss was cut by the Bengals. In more Bengals news, we did get an update on Maxwell Harston, the first round pick of the Bills. He had left with a non contact injury. Our guys at NFL Network report that it's an LCL sprain or which is basically a tear and so not really sure what the timeline is, but it's not an ACL, so that that's a positive. But you have to imagine now Tredavious White or Dane Jackson, one of the veterans there is in line for kind of the week one starting job for the Bills. So some injury news there, and let's now get to just some things maybe that make us go, you know, before before they we get to the eagles of it all. Just something that's on your radar. Oh, I'm cheating. I guess I have two?

00:08:56
Speaker 4: You go first?

00:08:56
Speaker 1: Then, okay, well this is more of a news item, but it also does make just that Jake Hayner was taking first team reps at Saints practice Wednesday.

00:09:05
Speaker 2: What are we doing here?

00:09:05
Speaker 4: You can't you can't quit the Saints.

00:09:07
Speaker 2: You love, No, We'll be there. Tyler Schuck was taken in the second round.

00:09:12
Speaker 1: Spencer Ratler is obviously clearly more talented and this guy Jake Hayner, who our friend Adam.

00:09:19
Speaker 2: At All Time player photo shoot. Yeah, Blake Block Party podcast.

00:09:22
Speaker 1: This gives me an excuse to send out the Jake Hayner photo shoot from a year ago, you know where he just modeled it up and I loved it. For like, his NFL team photos is getting equal time. I just think it's been under the radar that he's still getting first team reps. And it's Adam's theory that Kellen Moore just sees himself in Jake Hayner basically and underpowered, doesn't have a lot of physical gifts, but trying to win by playing quick, yeah from the neck up. But like you're those are reps that Tyler shook. Your second round pick who has not looked good could be taking. So what are we doing here? It's like the other It's like the year they drafted Trevor Lawrence and they didn't let him take all the reps for a while. It's not quite Trevor Lawrence, but it's still it's just stupid.

00:10:02
Speaker 3: I will say one of my favorite things is when Adam psychoanalyzes somebody. Yeah, we've overtext done this about you, but you can never see it.

00:10:10
Speaker 2: He is a social worker, but it's a dangerous thing to do.

00:10:13
Speaker 4: So that's just he's a gifted reader of humans. I'll say that.

00:10:17
Speaker 2: It's his job. And I just what are we doing here?

00:10:22
Speaker 1: We can do better than this, Saints, But yeah, they're they're cutting it up three ways. Reminds me of the Seahawks battle way back before quarterbacks.

00:10:32
Speaker 4: Who on Earth would think to do that.

00:10:34
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, if the dude is really the dude, you're going to be the dude anyways, So that would be the pushback.

00:10:40
Speaker 2: Like I remember, they made Russell Wilson.

00:10:42
Speaker 1: He was a third round pick, split up the reps with Charlie Whitehurst and Charlie Fry or whatever back in the day, and he still turned into Russell Wilson. So I just I'm a little annoyed. Now let's go Let's go to something else that makes it.

00:10:53
Speaker 3: Go him too slightly to the quarterbacks point. Something that made me go home this morning was seeing cliffs of Shane Steike and talking about how evenly matched the battle is between Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones.

00:11:04
Speaker 4: That's a HM to.

00:11:05
Speaker 1: Me, but I think it's a hum in the direction of it's good for Anthony Richardson because in a way I thought they were spitting things towards Daniel Jones, and there is reporting there. In the first few days in Pads, your colleague James Boyd thought that Richardson's looked a little better than Daniel Jones. For what it's worth, it's not like a home run, but so far he's looked a little better. So that that is very interesting. Give me, give me your larger.

00:11:26
Speaker 4: My larger.

00:11:27
Speaker 5: Hum.

00:11:28
Speaker 4: It's something I've been thinking about for the last couple of weeks.

00:11:30
Speaker 3: I know that we are going to get to it in our conversations about every team in the league, But why aren't the Broncos getting more, like not just national hype, because they're getting complimented like they're getting hype. I would say that, but in terms of like the definitive, this might be one of the best teams in football this year, Like why aren't they getting like it's a top three defense? In my opinion, i'd put them at the top, right, And I think that this is a team that has has finally gotten it all together and is going in that direction. I think this is going to be one of the best teams of football. Factoring a side injuries, whatever. But the reports out of camp are really exciting about Bonnicks, how he's playing, about this offensive line getting their receiver locked in Courtland Sutton getting you know, just getting a little bit more dimension to this offense as well. This defense is a top unit in the league. Like I just where is the where is the there's buzz I would say that it's not like nobody's talking about them, not in.

00:12:32
Speaker 1: The way that you just did that clip it rip it put it on the socials. Jordan's here in her first week and she's already learning the game. Because that is a hot take, and that the case for it, I do think is sometimes you don't realize when the best part of your window is, but you know before it's over. And this is the Broncos window. The combination that they have of talent, continuity, and youth is unique and it's hard to keep together.

00:12:57
Speaker 3: And then on the defensive side of the ball, they're not going to be able to keep that front intact for too much longer because guys will be coming due to get paid. They're going to have to pick and choose who they do pay. At a certain point, the quarterback is going to have to get.

00:13:09
Speaker 2: Paid maybe Vance Joseph gets a job.

00:13:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then and Vance Josepho's done an outstanding job and really rebounded from some difficult situations there when they first got there with Sean Payton, Like, this is really an exciting team. They're well coached, they're well thought out, and they've really recovered from the absolute fiasco that they put themselves in during the Russell Wilson Nate Hackett era a couple of years ago.

00:13:30
Speaker 1: Respect the take could see it happening. I don't think I can get quite there. A total cynic would say they might have the most positive local media corps in the entire league, and so that helps. That helps, like that fluff up what's going on in camp. But I do think there actually is a legitimate football case for everything that you're saying, including winning that division.

00:13:52
Speaker 2: One thing that made me.

00:13:53
Speaker 1: Go today was just like thinking about who doesn't have a job. I kind of forgot how many these guys on my old top one oh one are still looking for work. Means maybe I did a bad job. Amari Cooper not out of work, and I like search the MARII Cooper on the Everything app and there's some like clearly bad AI of him like looking overweight, and I'm just like, come on, bro, It's like, oh, here's why Amari Cooper doesn't have a job. It's like, no, that picture is from three years ago, but it's foolid people. Amari Cooper doesn't have a job. A Santi Samuel Junior, good cornerback. I know he had a shoulder injury, doesn't have a job. Stefan Gilmour Could the Cowboys go back to the Stefan Gilmore Well, I could see it because they really need a cornerback. To me, that is a perfect team fit for him. But he'll be on a team I believe. Zadaria Smith played pretty well last year. Doesn't have a job. Brandon Sheriff might be considering retirement and so that might be why he doesn't have a job and wants to skip this training camp portion. Either way, that could be the case for a lot of these guys. But played at a pretty high level last year. Doesn't have a job. Keenan Allen Kaisier White who I like, Razuell Douglas, like Justin Simmons, Jadavian Clowney, Will hernand Is who my son got to meet at the Super Bowl, has played really well at guards coming off an injury. Marcus Williams, Matthew Judah, just just some names as we got to the end. It was kind of in order of like how well they were playing last year, But it's a lot of guys who were starting in the NFL last year, and just something to watch over the next couple.

00:15:18
Speaker 3: Of Yeah, because at least surprise, these guys will get picked up after cuts, you know, after that first wave of cuts, and then after teams figure out, okay, is this could could this person cheaply be an improvement over somebody we brought in as a UDFA or somebody filling in for an.

00:15:32
Speaker 2: Injury, no question. Yeah. So it's all just a matter of timing for some of.

00:15:36
Speaker 1: These guys, and I think a few of them will sign mid August, after teams have a better feel of what's on their roster, after they got the ability to kind of skip the worst part of training.

00:15:48
Speaker 3: I mean, let's get through a full week of pads first, you know.

00:15:51
Speaker 1: Right, But I think to that end, Samuel Junior, Gilmore, Cooper, Guisier, White's got to be in the NFL, come on, uh, And eventually clowney like those are guys, I feel pretty comfortable are going to be in the NFL this year, And yeah, maybe for a guy like Keenan Allen.

00:16:08
Speaker 2: It's a post week one thing. We'll see, we'll see.

00:16:11
Speaker 1: I am told by our great producer Eric that before we go to break, we could look at a beautiful picture of Jake Caner.

00:16:20
Speaker 2: So there are many there from the series Chuck.

00:16:25
Speaker 1: I was not too familiar with that show, but way back in the day, I actually worked at the NBC production offices after I was a page there at NBC. You were at NBC Page and Chuck was one of our shows.

00:16:41
Speaker 2: We were just getting it going. It was like coming off the ground.

00:16:43
Speaker 1: It was coming together so very indirectly in terms of doing some assistant office work, like I contributed to the Chuck enterprise.

00:16:52
Speaker 2: How about that? Was it?

00:16:52
Speaker 4: It just like one season long?

00:16:54
Speaker 2: Oh no, that had a long run. That was it. That was a big act for everyone involved and j Caner.

00:16:59
Speaker 3: Can you know what I actually when this came out. I think everybody had fun with it. But I appreciate when people don't take themselves too seriously.

00:17:06
Speaker 1: Love me some Jkner, love me some Bo Wolf and Zach Berman. We're gonna talk some Eagles after freak.

00:17:24
Speaker 6: One receiver left his AJ Brown Baptistas and picks up a big pits pick up Bos down the rocking side able to ms ter Han Dotson, I'm not rob and Ageles touchdown.

00:17:36
Speaker 2: Jules Priam down that right.

00:17:38
Speaker 6: Hand side to the former Washington received the Saquin Balton picking up the blitz left in mon Coppers down the field. Dotson just he is mon on the outside. I a simple folk to open the school.

00:17:49
Speaker 2: Really first big blitz, that's bat No. I know that is ready for it.

00:17:55
Speaker 6: Jalen Hurts is ready for it.

00:17:57
Speaker 2: And have about to Holland tottson one on one cover. We haven't seen him make a big play in months.

00:18:02
Speaker 1: And if he gets the first touchdown for the Super Bowl and he was saving it for you, Greg, Oh wow. That was Will Gavin and myself on Talk.

00:18:12
Speaker 2: Sport Funny how that works.

00:18:14
Speaker 1: You know, I wish I had just a part of that callback because John Dutson did have a big play in the NFC Championship.

00:18:21
Speaker 2: But neither here nor there.

00:18:22
Speaker 1: That was a lot of fun and that was a great night for all of Philadelphia. And that includes our next two guests. Bo Wolf and Zach Berman from the All phl Y Show. What a night that was for you guys, And it is just all optimism here. And if you're watching on YouTube, this is the first ever dueling studio shot we've ever had. And you guys look beautiful. You look like you're in shape for training camp.

00:18:51
Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much.

00:18:52
Speaker 5: All the credit goes to Julia, our producer, for making that happen. But yeah, I told you that. It's like we're playing doubles tennis here. We got a little ping pong going on.

00:18:59
Speaker 1: Okay, don't don't bring up tennis stretched beforehand, Bo Wolf.

00:19:03
Speaker 2: He beat me.

00:19:04
Speaker 1: He beat me in Arizona before this Super Bowl a couple of years ago, big serve. I wasn't ready, but it was competitive. And yes, love love having Zach on the show.

00:19:17
Speaker 4: Ye I was going to say, hey, Zach, you and I are also here.

00:19:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to see you.

00:19:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, old co workers everyone. Bo always just tried to like angle Zach out.

00:19:27
Speaker 2: Who knows he's the power player.

00:19:29
Speaker 1: So it's hope season, right, And we we just heard, you know, the end of one of the best performances in Super Bowl history in my mind by by the Philadelphia Eagles, just putting it on that Chiefs team, and we're all optimism here, we're going through everything that's going to go right. But the reality is the rest of the league is rooting for your downfall, in the Eagles downfall, because when the Eagles do well, you guys do well too, and not that you're rooting for them. And so I thought maybe we'd we'd structure this segment at least to start about what could go wrong for the Eagles.

00:20:00
Speaker 2: I want to I want to hear actually from Zach.

00:20:02
Speaker 1: You're out there each and every day, what is the one thing you think could go wrong for the Eagles this year that would not allow them to get back to the Super Bowl.

00:20:11
Speaker 2: I would say the pass rush.

00:20:13
Speaker 7: If if the pass rush is not what it needs to be, because there are questions on the edge, right, that's that's that's really my big question about this team. They lose Josh Sweat, they lose Brandon Graham, they trade Bryce Huff and they're they're relying on Noan Smith and Jex Hunt taking a big jump, and then some free agent acquisitions and really their interior rush to be big factors. So I think that if the pass rush isn't good enough. That's that's my biggest question going into the season.

00:20:43
Speaker 3: Outside of the starting group, who among that defensive line are you not only expecting to take a step forward, but needs to take a step forward this year in order to actually bring that unit to life again.

00:20:57
Speaker 7: Yeah, the two names I would really point out is on on the edge, Jaelx hunt Well, I know he's the he's the starting group, but then on the interior, Morol Ojamo is a big time player for them. He's he's filling in for Milton Williams, so he's he's a starter as as well. And so it really comes down to players who were role players last year filling in for Josh Swett, filling in for Milton Williams.

00:21:20
Speaker 2: If you look at the.

00:21:21
Speaker 7: Depth, either Josh Uce or Azizo Jalari needs to step into that number three job. But it's really going to be the top edge rushers because Vic Fangio doesn't have that that four man, five man rotation that Eagles have had in the past. So it's it's really about the top five to six players on that front getting to the quarterback.

00:21:40
Speaker 2: Feel free. Let just interrupt him, Bo.

00:21:42
Speaker 5: Like we'll surprise you if you've listened to our show to know that I disagree with Zach. To me, the biggest question mark is the secondary because you think about the defense last season. You know, the Super Bowl was one thing. It was great to see Josh Swett and Milton Williams have those monster games. But that was the best defense in football, not because they had a great pass rush. It was the best defense in football because they had an unbelievable back seven and especially the best secondary in football, thanks in large part to you know, Cooper Degene and Quinyon Mitchell being so good as rookies, and there were no weak links right now the way they stand, there are maybe three week links in the secondary, depending on where guys are going to play. You've got Quinnyon Mitchell, who has looked amazing in camp thus far and could be you know, in like all pro conversation, you've got Red Blankenship penciled in as one of the starters at safety as a solid player. Then it's like, Okay, Cooper degen is going to be on the field. We don't know where yet. Is it going to be at safety, is it going to be at nickel, Is it going to be the other outside corner spot, probably not. And then you've got Keey Ringo and Adorri Jackson right now competing for the other spot and second round pick. True maccouba was supposed to probably start at safety next to Blankenship, but he's injured right now. And you know that for rookies at that position with Dick Fanjo, missing time is going to matter.

00:22:56
Speaker 2: And so that is a question mark.

00:22:58
Speaker 5: And if the second day is not as good as it was last year, and if teams are just peppering whoever that other corner is, then that the rush is gonna have less time to get home. If the secondary is as good as it was last year, which is a high mark, then I'm not worried about the pass rush. You've still got Jalen Carter, You've still got Nolan Smith. I think Jelex Hunt will be fine. And more Ojamo the Eagles do think can be like ninety percent of what Milton Williams was So to me, it's much more about the secondary.

00:23:25
Speaker 1: It's a lot of Ojabo talk on your podcast, a lot of pop how well he's looked, a lot of talk about his name pronunciation change. Also, if you disagree with with Zach, there you could point out that one of Zach's points to support that the defense of you know, the edge spot is is a big issue is that Bryce Huff is no longer there, which seems like I feel like they can replace those those snaps.

00:23:47
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, that's that's really the key to the Eagle season, that Bryce off trade.

00:23:51
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask I wanted to ask you guys too about you mentioned it bo in your point about the secondary Cooper Degen again trying on different hats in this defense. And I think we were really high on him as a collective for group here double Studios for group about the versatility that he had and then also how he was going to really ascend into that like big nickel star slot hybrid safety slot player that he was last year. But do you think that there's a potential here, because you're you're really not wanting to isolate one of those unknowns at corner on the outside, do you think there's a potential here that this is a more matchup derived role for him moving forward? Like some games like say they're playing a good, really good tight end or a couple you see him back a little bit closer to the box.

00:24:39
Speaker 2: You see him in the slot. Maybe some games you see him.

00:24:41
Speaker 3: Back deeper at safety if they have a good, a really good explosive passing game with receivers. I mean, how do you see this sort of shaking out for Cooper who uh humble Bragg came onto the show after the Super Bowl to talk with us, right.

00:24:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, it is one. It was.

00:24:56
Speaker 5: It is probably the most fascinating question about the defense heading into this season. If Joe has talked about it, probably is not about what is best for Cooper Degen. It is about what is best for the rest of the defense. And by that he means who are the other guys who are going to be on the field, right, And so if Drew mccuba was going to be ready, then you can probably just keep Cooper Degen in the nickel when they're in nickel, and you know, you know, he brings so much versatility. He was he was great for them last year so that they could stay in nickel against heavy fronts because he was so good in the box. There's a thought that you know, in the spring he took some reps outside in base if if the Eagles have more confidence in Macouba, for instance, than Keeley Ringo or Adroy Jackson, that's where he would be. But the larger conversation about like Cooper's versatility is it goes to one that Zach and I have also disagreed about over the years, and that is like the value of a positionless player as as Zach calls it. You know, Zach loves an Isaiah Simmons, the idea that like this sack and just roam around on the defense.

00:25:57
Speaker 1: Oh, we're getting Isaiah Simmons hype in the year to five and packers camp every training camp because you know it looks great like in training camp before real football is right, like Isaiah Simmons.

00:26:06
Speaker 3: Okay, but if it doesn't work, then you have the Isia Isaiah Simmons journey with the Cardinals. If it does work, then you have the the Buddha Baker journey under a vic Fangio disciple. Nonathan Gannon, that's all I'm saying. That's all the same to me.

00:26:19
Speaker 5: What this goes to is all of this this theory is great until it comes time to have a game plan for a week and the defensive coordinators need a guy to play a position. And if you think about the vic Fango defense, last year, and what was so great about it was they had like they had eleven guys who were on the field and they didn't really have to rotate a ton and they all knew exactly where they were supposed to be. And so to me, it is it is Cooper Degene is probably right now their best or second best safety, their best nickel, and probably their second best outside corner, and he can play all of those different positions. But he's going to play those positions. He's not gonna he's not going to be like freelancing around. And so to the matchup question that you asked, Jordan, I think that quenya and Mitchell is actually the guy here because I've seen him last year. He played all on the right side throughout most of the summer. In the spring, he's worked on the left side to prepare for the possibility that he's going to be shadowing number one receivers, especially because they're going to be weak on the other cornerback spot. And last summer we saw Quinnyon play inside as well before he earned that outside job. So I think the matchup thing here is that maybe Quinnyon is going to be following guys and then you just figure out which position Cooper Degene is going to play.

00:27:26
Speaker 2: But go ahead, Zach No, I think you put it well.

00:27:28
Speaker 7: I think that there's probably a better term than positionless multi position, and I agree with Jordan that there are certain weeks when the matchup's favorable. You know, you think about someone like Marlin Humphrey who can line up in the slot, lineup outside, that could be a comp for Cooper the Gene. You could also look at like Devin mccordy's career trajectory as something that Cooper the Gen could do where he slides to safety and he's so impactful there.

00:27:55
Speaker 2: I mean, he is such a valuable player for them.

00:27:58
Speaker 7: I also think, and this isn't a twenty twenty five question, but long term, the Eagles need to think, like, what's what's the most valuable spot for him? If he can be a top outside corner as we've seen, that's a twenty five to thirty million dollar position, right. So, I mean this is not a Vic Fangio question, that's a Howie Roseman question.

00:28:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the Cooper Degen's agent question.

00:28:18
Speaker 7: Yeah, but I'm fascinated to see where Cooper is long term.

00:28:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you guys doubted. I heard, you know, you were putting some shade on that he got ranked. You were surprised in the top seventy from the players, he was sixty.

00:28:30
Speaker 2: I thought that was wild. He's a lot of better player than Jordan Mailatta.

00:28:33
Speaker 1: I mean, that's fair, but that's my A lot has ranking like that. Didn't seem that crazy to me. You guys were there, Zach. You literally wrote the book on the Eagles championship season. Everyone should check out Leap Year when it comes out, But I mean they appreciate that the defense just completely changed. Because I do think one of the bigger questions and I don't want to spend the whole time on Degene. I want to hear what you guys have seen on the ground too, But to wrap, I do think one of the bigger questions with him is not just where he's playing, but his rookie season was so unique, Like he there is an argument that he could potentially be on like a defensive Player of the Year type of player, all Pro year after year, hall of Fame type of trajectory, because I just haven't seen many players in the secondary have that kind of rookie season, and yet you guys are poo pooing that he's even like a top seven.

00:29:18
Speaker 3: So and I think what they're saying, and I'm kind of parsing this from Bow because he brought up a really good point here is I think it's a two part question. It's Cooper Dejen and Quinjon Mitchell. Yes, And I think the big question, which then leads to a million more questions, obviously as we watch this defense, this version of the defense unfold, is how do you make both of those guys unavoidable players when quarterbacks do not want to throw to them? How do you get them in the action and at the ball and involved in as many snaps as possible when quarterbacks do not want to f with them at all?

00:29:49
Speaker 2: So how it's a two part question.

00:29:50
Speaker 3: In my mind, And it's not just Cooper, it's also Quinjon Mitchell as a very very strong part of that.

00:29:55
Speaker 1: See, I'm going to throw it back to you guys thinking like it's more of a social thing. I heard Boe even say it like maybe players are over radium because they're so excited to see a white cornerback. But I think you're going the other way and you're almost like afraid to rate him for what a unique rookie season that he had, because like, you know, you don't want to just overhepes the guys.

00:30:14
Speaker 2: This is trapped. No, no, no, yeah no.

00:30:16
Speaker 5: I was very surprised that he ranked that high, knowing how that process works.

00:30:20
Speaker 1: That process is meaningless. Let's be real, it's just well, yeah, I mean the ulus.

00:30:24
Speaker 5: You know, they pop into the locker rooms and they the guys have like fifteen minutes. They're like, I'm gonna rank you here, you ranked me here, let's.

00:30:30
Speaker 2: Talk about it.

00:30:31
Speaker 5: I was surprised that before even the Super Bowl, when he has that pick six, that the rest of the league would have viewed him so high. And and honestly, I do think part of that is because of the visibility of him being a white cornerback. Not to say that he is not awesome.

00:30:44
Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, I don't think that has has much to do with it.

00:30:48
Speaker 2: I think it has It has more to do with how unique of a player he is.

00:30:51
Speaker 7: And that's why, frankly, you know, to like like to a dress Jordan's point, Quenya Mitchell is so sticky in coverage, He's he's not as dynamic in terms of his ball skills.

00:31:01
Speaker 2: He's he's not as physical a player.

00:31:03
Speaker 7: So I want Cooper around the ball more so in the slot or safety, and I want Quinnon to be on the outside, shutting down the opposing team's top receiver.

00:31:11
Speaker 2: See this would be a fun show on the top one hundred. Yeah.

00:31:15
Speaker 1: Could I like that you're bringing up the Quinnyon that they're they're a pair, because when else says it happened that is.

00:31:19
Speaker 4: A runner up for defensive rookie Right, when.

00:31:21
Speaker 1: Else has it happened that that two guys in the same second.

00:31:24
Speaker 5: Nobody in the locker room would tell you that Cooper Desien was better than Quinyon Mitchell last year.

00:31:28
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm saying they're very much connected in my opinion, but you have to if that's the thing, it's deployment.

00:31:33
Speaker 4: That's the big question.

00:31:34
Speaker 3: Is make them both together the same part of the same side of the equation. Make them both together as unavoidable a tandem as you can.

00:31:41
Speaker 4: It's it's going to be cool to watch.

00:31:43
Speaker 5: And I do think from a like how does how does Howie Roseman keep getting away with it standpoint, it is fair to point out that when they took Quinnon Mitchell, they were like debating to the last second, do we take quinnyon Mitchell or Cooper de Gene?

00:31:57
Speaker 4: Why not both?

00:31:59
Speaker 2: Right and the rest of the league. Let them let him have it. You know, that is a that is a real thing.

00:32:04
Speaker 5: You know. There's the video of Jeffy Leary when they draft Cooper Rejean saying he went to bed last night thinking about how can we make this happen? How can we get you? So he was very much the the white corner of their dreams.

00:32:14
Speaker 1: And and speaking of you know, great tandems.

00:32:19
Speaker 2: Uh. I like that Zach was polite and.

00:32:23
Speaker 1: Understood that Jordan's point was fantastic, and he addressed Jordan's point, whereas Bo and I are just trying to like annoy our co hosts at all times and not actually addressing those points. So I think I think we could work well as a foursome, and we are.

00:32:38
Speaker 2: I want to hear from a formula.

00:32:40
Speaker 4: Here, yep, I agree, I agree.

00:32:42
Speaker 1: I want to I want to hear Zach about some things that you guys have seen there at camp that the average fan Eagles fan or or just nationally wouldn't be privy to that that you're seeing on the field. Uh, Jehad Campbell is out there. That was like a nice surprise nationally, like whatever wherever you want to go on, like what you're seeing out there, that's been eye opening.

00:33:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:33:06
Speaker 7: So so, like I guess to answer this question, well, I need to go with non high.

00:33:11
Speaker 2: Profile players because I could say a J.

00:33:13
Speaker 7: Brown looks really good and I don't think your audience wait.

00:33:16
Speaker 4: Let me write that down. Let me write that down. That's important.

00:33:18
Speaker 2: I do like carrying that though.

00:33:20
Speaker 1: Like I do like herrying that him and Quinn and are going at it like that's exciting. But no, it'd have to be a little more under the radar, like John Campbell is definitely one that I'm curious.

00:33:28
Speaker 7: Exactly day one of training camp, seeing Johat Campbell out there was a bit of a surprise.

00:33:32
Speaker 2: We didn't know well.

00:33:33
Speaker 7: First off, Vic Fangio said it was gonna be August, and then here it is in mid July and he's out there.

00:33:40
Speaker 2: He's working up the depth chart.

00:33:42
Speaker 7: Now week one seems not just realistic, but I expect him to be a starter in week one. And maybe it's just because I've covered Vegas for fourteen seasons now that I'm not used to seeing linebackers who look and play like this, Like I mean, I saw Jordan Hicks and Nigel Bradham and you know the Lake career, Demiko Ryans, obviously Zach Bond last year. But the Eagles aren't known for high level linebacker play. Jahad Campbell just looks different. The length that he has, the speed in which he plays with uh, you know, and he's still learning and he's still rehabbing here, but you could his presence is evident out there.

00:34:17
Speaker 2: So that's one.

00:34:18
Speaker 7: And then the other one, and I mentioned this earlier, is that Moro Ojamo uh is so disruptive for the Eagles. Jalen Carter hasn't been in team drills yet and you just see the the how how on that on that defensive interior.

00:34:33
Speaker 2: You see the way Moro Ojmo is playing.

00:34:34
Speaker 7: Now the caveat is he's going against Tyler Steen, And Tyler Stein's the big question on the Eagles offensive line. Really they have four All Pro Pro Bowl Caliper lineman and then a right guard.

00:34:44
Speaker 2: Question.

00:34:45
Speaker 7: So Tyler Steen, this is you know, something both talks about in my six years doing the show with him, is in these training camp settings, is it your you know, the player who's playing well, is that good or the player he's playing against the struggling And so I'm fascinated to see how the right guard situation shakes out.

00:35:01
Speaker 3: It's that it's interesting to me because I Jod Campbell, you almost have to understand what all he can do. If you're Vic Fangio and his and his coaching staff understand and like, okay, can he move around? For example, because they're pretty good, they're going to be fine at inside linebacker and you know in the foreseeable future, but like, can he move around? Do you expect I mean, if, like you mentioned at the top of the show, if this pass rush doesn't quite pop the way that they wanted to, if they don't have that extra player so they can rotate their fronts the way that they want them to. Is is he a player who you could see moving around? He was one of our favorite prospects coming out in the draft for that reason because you really saw a limitless potential with with where you could play him well.

00:35:44
Speaker 5: And it's it's interesting because the ceiling for Jahan Campbell, like the upside feels like Zach Bond being able to do everything and have that physical presence and so in you know, in the dreams of Vic Fangio, having the ability to have both of those guys on the same on the fields at the same time, both being able to do everything does feel like it unlocks some things. And you know Howie Roseman, you talk about the versatility when they drafted him, he threw the Michael Parsons conversation.

00:36:13
Speaker 2: Comp on him.

00:36:14
Speaker 5: And by the way, that's the second time this offseason somebody from the Eagles has done that. Jordan Malata gave just through that to Jalx Hunt earlier this summer. I wonder if that's like a needle poke, a purposeful needle poke from the Eagles to the Cowboys. But with John Campbell, he's been given a little bit more to do every day at camp so far. So you know, he starts working with the twoes and he starts getting sprinkled in with the ones. Yesterday or Tuesday's practice, we saw him practice like calling the place with the defense for the first time, with Zach Bond off the field for the day. And so yeah, my expectation is that come week one, those two guys are gonna be on the field together on every down. And and Vick is going to have some interesting stuff for them to do. I love that Zach Bond.

00:36:55
Speaker 1: If you had told me a year ago that Zach Bond would have this sort of impact, not just that he got that big contract and that he was so key to like winning the sewer row, but literally, I think the rest of the league is thinking about linebackers in a way that, like you, you're inside linebackers better be able to be part of the pass rush or else you kind of can't keep him on the field anymore. And John Campbell, I do wonder if he could be like a Donta High Tower type of player. I know he's not nearly as big, but I'm excited. That makes me think about Vic in.

00:37:22
Speaker 3: The dreams of Vic Fangium, Mike said, I know my question more title for.

00:37:26
Speaker 1: You guys, is Vic Fangio the last honest, notable NFL coach at the podium?

00:37:34
Speaker 2: I think so, and it is. It is such a pleasure. I love it.

00:37:37
Speaker 5: I mean, yesterday, so to take you through it, we got we had plays practice where like Healey Ringo and a Dori Jackson had been sort of rotating every other drill essentially as who was going to be the first team outside cornerback, and on Monday, Dori Jackson got more of the reps. It seemed like it had changed a little bit and it was maybe going in his favor. And so the questions to Vic Fanjo the morning before the next practice, He's asked about a Dori Jackson as if that's the way that the competition's going, and like he could not have thrown more cold water on a Dori Jackson if he was like, no, he's talking about Listen, this guy. He's got to prove who he thinks he can be, Like the way he didn't resign him, The Giants didn't resign him. I didn't even watch tape on him. Howie Roseman said he wanted him. How he gets who he wants, Like, I love it. He's talking about him the way that he talked about Devin White and Bryce Huff last summer. And so like all of a sudden, Kiler Ringo gets all the reps yesterday.

00:38:34
Speaker 2: Maybe not so fast with the Dory Jackson. Yeah, my answer to that question is I hope not.

00:38:38
Speaker 7: I'm thirty nine years old doing this for a long time, So I hope he's not the last coach who answers.

00:38:44
Speaker 5: Well, I think what you need is maybe he's the last one right now, but when the other guys get older, it's just that then they can stop caring too.

00:38:52
Speaker 7: I'm an optimist by nature, So my hope is that other coaches see that if you're a matter of fact, if if like you, you say publicly what you say behind the scenes. He still won a Super Bowl, he had the number one defense. It didn't hurt him to be transparent.

00:39:06
Speaker 2: So I want to be doing that. But that will not happen. But can't you see it's a good stump speech? Though, Yeah, can't you see this blowing up?

00:39:14
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you have more VIC stories, Zach, but hearing that, hearing them basically say, well, that's like a Howie guy, It's that one of my guys. Like the fact that he's feeling willing to say that publicly, my mind immediately fast forward to the moment where this all At some point things have to go wrong and there will be some sort of VIC how he clashed. Maybe it's in like twenty twenty eight, like it might not be for a long while, but I do look forward to the day that like Vic just says something that is the entire storyline in Philadelphia for weeks on end.

00:39:43
Speaker 7: I gotta say, though they spent seventeen million dollars on a linebacker, they took a linebacker in the first round. Yes year, they are not rotating edge rushers like they did in the past. I think, I think how he is all in on the Vic Fangio experience right now being changed.

00:39:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:40:00
Speaker 5: And for those of you know, for the national fans who don't know this story, the funniest thing of the Vic Howie interplay is the story of Zach Bond from last year, where Vic tells the story basically that Howie brings him, you know, tape of Zach Bond, like this guy's going to be a good special teams player for us, maybe like a fourth edge rusher will help out there. And Vic watches like two minutes of tape. He's like, oh, this is gonna be my starting inside linebacker, okay, right.

00:40:25
Speaker 1: And never and never gave the other guys a chance and just was there the whole time and meant what he said.

00:40:29
Speaker 2: I love it.

00:40:29
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I love it.

00:40:30
Speaker 3: Okay, So you guys, because coming back from you know, the highest of highs and We've seen this team compete at the very highest level.

00:40:37
Speaker 4: We've seen them lose a Super Bowl.

00:40:39
Speaker 3: We've seen we saw the entire season unfold like a slow moving car crash after that, and then they rebounded and won the entire thing. This is a Jalen Hurts offensive line, Saquon Barkley receivers question, but it's also an ecosystem question as well. What did this group learn from the last post super Bowl appearance that or if they've learned anything that they can apply first and foremost to the offensive side of the ball, but then also to the general dynamic and energy of the team.

00:41:13
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a great question because it's it's something I've thought a lot about, and I think you look at this from front office.

00:41:18
Speaker 1: Keep giving her a great question, best questions of the day, best question.

00:41:22
Speaker 2: I'm not getting anything over here, but my antenna is up there too. It's like this is pre planned.

00:41:29
Speaker 7: So twenty eighteen was considerably different in that, you know, the quarterback was coming off a major injury, it was an older team.

00:41:35
Speaker 2: Uh, and so I think the the.

00:41:37
Speaker 7: Roster composition, the resources that they have, Uh, it's considerably different there. But I think from you know, and then you can even see in like their approach in twenty eighteen, Doug Peterson's message was this is the new normal, right And actually, like a few days before the season, Malcolm Jenkins even told Doug Peterson to take all the Super Bowl stuff out of the locker room. They were clinging on too much. The mess from the Eagles very much now is that was last year. They're not even defending champs. But from an offensive perspective, I think what I'm real curious to see is how much they lean into what they did last year compared to how much they evolve. So if you think about twenty twenty two going in the twenty twenty three, the offense did not evolve.

00:42:22
Speaker 2: The offense.

00:42:23
Speaker 7: What they tried to do was was refined what they did well the year before, and it was not a good offense or not a consistent offense in twenty twenty three. Nick Sirianni's spoken quite a bit right now about evolution, and so I really think that I expect them the pass to all more. I expect them to be more dynamic through the air. And they are Eagles fans who say, wait, you have Saquon Barkley, you have the best offensive line in the NFL. Why not just stick to what they did last year. I don't expect that to be the case. I think this is going to be an offense that evolves from last season.

00:42:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's going to be marginal.

00:42:58
Speaker 5: I think they're still going to want to lean mostly on Saquon Barkley, but they need to take more shots downfield than they did last season. You know, Jalen Hurts is so good at throwing the ball downfield, and that was his lowest percentage in his career in throwing the ball twenty yards or more downfield. AJ Brown needs the ball a little bit more. He spoke earlier this offseason, at the beginning of camp. He's like, listen, I think I'm the best receiver in football. I want to put a stamp on it this year, but I also want to do what's best for the team, and I will. And that is a tough thing for him, not in like a locker room drama standpoint, but in a he thinks he's the best receiver in football. I don't disagree with him. Every time they throw him the ball, it's going to be a good result. You know, his yards per target is higher than Saquon Barkley's yards per carry. But the team has built a certain way and they want to lead on that offensive line. That's and that's reasonable. I do think, you know, we it is interesting compared to two years ago, we spent so much time talking about what is the defense the offense going to look like. With a new offensive coordinator in Brian Johnson, Jalen Hurts has another new offensive coordinator again, this happens to him every year. And we haven't talked a lot about Kevin Patulo. It hasn't really been a big story in Philadelphia again, and I don't know if that is because he and Sirianni are so closely linked. And you think back to what went wrong in twenty twenty three, some of it was that I don't think that Nick Sirianni fully trusted just handing over the keys to the offense to Brian Johnson, and he was incentivized in his mind to meddle a little bit more and be more involved in the offense. I think that will be less the case because Petullo is his guy. And I also think, you know, maybe just the lessons of what happened in twenty twenty three matter. But the other truth is that more than it's Nick Sirianni's offense and Kevin Petullo's offense, it's Jalen Hurts his offense. And I think you're still going to see sort of the same target distribution that you have always seen under Jalen Hurts, and it's going to come down to what he does more so than what Petulo does.

00:44:44
Speaker 1: And it was a mediocre offense for most of last year. That's the craziest thing to be It was thirteenth in efficiency according to DVOA. And then you see Jalen Hurts at his very best obviously in those two Super Bowls, in the NFC Championship, and it has such a high ceiling, so there's so much room for improvement. I think that's that's reason to be happy. But you said it hasn't been a big story. I mean, Kevin Patula will be a big story like September fifth. If they have a bad offensive like Opening Night, then suddenly it's it's the biggest story in town. You guys are the best at what you do.

00:45:16
Speaker 2: I love listening to you.

00:45:17
Speaker 1: Check out the pH l Y Eagles podcast. Check out Zach Berman's writing wherever it is. And uh, yeah, Jordan played high school tennis, so I'm feeling good. If we get out there, it is on. I know you're not supposed to root, but root for the Eagles to get back. Uh and then somewhere in the San Francisco area we're going to be there anyway. Okay, then we're doing it. It's happening, Zach.

00:45:42
Speaker 4: You get a studio like that and not go to super Bowl.

00:45:45
Speaker 2: Start practicing, start practice. We'll see you guys. Appreciate it. Thanks guys. That was great. Never get tired of talking to them.

00:45:53
Speaker 3: I love them so much. Oh my gosh, Oh my god. How excited did you get hearing about youd Campbell. I got goosebumps. I'm I'm so freaking stoked. That's awesome.

00:46:02
Speaker 1: And he will be playing in the preseason and yeah, we're going to have you covered all preseason long with our takeaways every Sunday night, Me and Shook.

00:46:09
Speaker 2: But we still got a little time.

00:46:11
Speaker 1: Yes, our next show is going to be the first fantasy football show of the season. We're going to do a primer with two of the best in the game, Evan Silva and Pat Dherty to at road Worth but we'll also have a little update from the Hall of Fame game to start the show. Yes, that's right, Our next show is actually going to recap a football game.

00:46:35
Speaker 2: Being played in America on a football field. Football's back