Minicamp Winners and Losers

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Stop your pants.

00:00:04
Speaker 2: Welcome to NFL Daily. I'm Greg Rosenthal, and we're getting excited for the real NFL off season to start. Jordan Rodriguez the Athletics clearly excited. Patrick claibhan is as well. We're gonna have to beep you out right off the top.

00:00:19
Speaker 1: Of the show at Jordan did not realize we were starting.

00:00:22
Speaker 3: We are starting.

00:00:23
Speaker 2: We couldn't get you couldn't wait any longer to start.

00:00:26
Speaker 4: What if we don't beep it? I'm I'm just throwing that out there, Okay. I'm looking over at Eric.

00:00:33
Speaker 1: Eric having a conversation behind the glass earlier about just the tone of voice that you use to talk about difficult things.

00:00:40
Speaker 2: And there's no like like SCC for podcasts. I guess the NFL. Yes, certain things are more appropriate than others. But this is a this is all on.

00:00:50
Speaker 4: It depends on the timing of the beat because with the S word right and the I G. Yeah, if you beep it, it could turn into something else. WHOA Okay, I mean you could drop it all together.

00:01:03
Speaker 3: You could.

00:01:04
Speaker 2: I am in favor of it, and I think it fits well for the vibe of this show. Driving Mini Camp season is all but done, guys with the break is about to happen.

00:01:17
Speaker 3: The break is about to happen.

00:01:18
Speaker 2: Although there are a few random teams that are practicing next week, but not many most like the Chargers for instance, There's just a couple of rookies there. There's a couple of voluntary ones. A lot of people are canceling their things for next week. So about twenty eight twenty nine teams. Their off season program is over as of Thursday. As we are taping this, I say.

00:01:38
Speaker 4: Well, I want to run the numbers on is there an advantage to OTA timing? I would like to and perhaps this is a tease, I'll reveal the answer. Okay next week, dun dun dump. Wow.

00:01:52
Speaker 2: The Lions, for instance, yeah, they've already been offering. The Rams are going to go to Hawaii next week. Jordan is not making that trip. It would be a big expense for them to just.

00:02:02
Speaker 1: I will be in New York helping my sister move.

00:02:05
Speaker 3: Great job by you.

00:02:07
Speaker 1: So I mean you pick an option, you know, like sweating in New York, putting together Ikia furniture and going to Maui. I mean, I don't know, tough choice.

00:02:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, but when you're done there's the collective relief of having done something good right, or.

00:02:24
Speaker 1: Or the relief that comes with laying in the sand sipping a decree.

00:02:29
Speaker 2: You know you'd have to work there, and you know, I.

00:02:34
Speaker 1: Don't think you understand how little work is involved with covering Rams Mini Camp.

00:02:39
Speaker 2: I can imagine, especially who we're not supposed to say that, basically like, hey, let's let's let Pooka a Kua.

00:02:45
Speaker 3: It's so cool.

00:02:46
Speaker 1: There's going to be so many fans there that are so excited to see him. I am sad to be missing that.

00:02:51
Speaker 3: That is too bad.

00:02:52
Speaker 2: But we will wrap up, and I know you are at rams OTAs this week. I don't know if the Rams will make it into this show or not, because we are going to tell winners and losers for Mini Camp season, something I like to do because it's just a fun framing device and serious football heads like Patrick might look down on it because like, how can you really win or lose? It's just this is a fun way to wrap up and justify why we're here at this time of season.

00:03:18
Speaker 4: I'm not serious, I'm just annoying.

00:03:19
Speaker 2: No, okay, let's start. I will throw out a winner right off the top. I'll say Jordan Rodriege is a winner because I feel like you have been right on front street of this Bengals story of them not taking care of their people, and you've just been frustrated.

00:03:37
Speaker 3: So it's just in your wheelhouse.

00:03:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, that they are now finding new ways to annoy their players. Yeah.

00:03:42
Speaker 1: And I want to be clear because I think this is actually a serious topic and I want to be really clear when I'm speaking on it because I think it's really important for not just the current conversation, but the future of how these things are argued and then hopefully solved. I think that, first of all, the Bengals could have won the off season. They got their receivers done, even if Trey Hendrickson was still kind of out there hanging in the breeze, and maybe there's a resolution and maybe it comes by training camp or maybe there's a trade. I still would have given them more points for the positive of the off season. And I've heard it. I've heard Bengals fans being like, why do you hate our team? Why do you hate the team? Like, stop talking smack about the Bengals. And I have to say I am genuinely disappointed and disturbed by the way that they have handled this Samar Stuart situation, because the entire context of this conversation is asking somebody to basically be the face of a changed blueprint, to set a new precedent, to take advantage of a collectively bargained already collectively bargained contract and remove something from that player and ask him to be the face of this precedent moving forward, which would then affect all all other players. And I don't think that's fair, and I think it's really a crappy thing for a team to do when a player already has no control over which team he arrives at via the draft.

00:05:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I should have set it up by saying that Samar Stewart left Bengals mini camp on Thursday. He has not been practicing. He's their first round pick. It's honestly, I did find out and under understand what the difference in the contract that they're at. It's not worth getting into here, but it is worth listening to Shamar Stewart talk about it earlier in the week.

00:05:32
Speaker 5: I've been doing this for most of my whole life, and then all of a sudden it is gone over something very simple to fix. It's kind of disappointing who all greed trade will be right right, but technically still one percent wrong for being on the contract. So in my case, I'm one hundred percent right, so it should be a no brainer. And in trace case, I think it should be a no brainer too. I mean, he led seventeen and a half sacks and two for two years back to back. If I was a GM or I was the owner, take all my money. But I guess they don't offer you like that.

00:06:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, and I don't want to be clear too, because I came into the room this morning like ready to swing because I was upset about this, and I am upset about this. I think that, first of all, these contracts are tiered in a certain way. Now that's pretty relatively simple. They're not perfect. I don't think anything that has to be collectively bargained. Because a corporation on one side is trying to get more and the worker on the other side is also trying to get more, it's always going to have to be a compromise in certain ways. So these are tiered relatively and relatively straightforward manner now, and they were collectively bargained. But what the Bengals are trying to do right now is set a new blueprint for certain removals of guarantees in the sort of the back end of guarantees of the contract. And like you said, it's murky and nuanced and there's like a lot of legal ees involved, but at the basic simplest way to describe this is something has already been approved by the collective bargaining agreement that the Bengals are now trying to change, and to do so with this particular contract would then set a precedent and a blueprint for all thirty one other teams to possibly do the same thing, which in this league we have to assume that they would in order to save a small percentage of money. And instead of this being resolved when the player, when Shamar is holding out or not practicing because it would be a liability for himself if he were to get injured in a practice before he actually signs the contract, instead of this being resolved, it has now turned into a very public situation where this twenty one year old young man is basically having to be the face of if I don't hold firm, every other first round pick that comes after me could be subjected to this same removal.

00:08:00
Speaker 2: Right, that's not fair, he said the money quote from him was, I'm not asking for nothing that's never been done before. But in the team's case, y'all just want to win an argument instead of winning more games, in my opinion, which is fighting words and man, is a tough situation for a rookie to be in.

00:08:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, they'd like to win a chance to spend less month ultimately to compensate someone. And while he's not asking for something that nobody else has asked before, the Bengals in this instance are asking something of Stuart that nobody has asked of anybody before in terms of the particular language of this contract. And this is a CBA that was negotiated when Shamar Stewart was seventeen years old, so he never had any call on what the CEVA looked like. And here at this point his only option is to withhold, is to withhold his labor until this is resolved. But this is clearly this is an overreach.

00:08:54
Speaker 2: Thing is they'll figure it out. All right, Let's do another winner and Loser. I apologize because that was such a bummer no to start, all right, Mark Patrick.

00:09:00
Speaker 1: Garrett, It's not a bummer. It's important, right, No.

00:09:03
Speaker 2: It absolutely is. I just feel bad because, like the Bengals are, it is an annoying situation. It will get straightened out. Off the top, I mean, eventually it will get straightened out. But I also just feel like we're at some point. Bengals fans, they know it, and they're they're just having to sit in it right now.

00:09:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be clear, none of us are trying to pile on the Bengals, but it is an infrastructural failure of the entire ecosystem top to bottom to put a twenty one year old in this position of potentially defying his union, to potentially defying all of the players and teammates and colleagues that come after him. And where the hell is the head coach in this? Where is he to step in and be the coach for the player?

00:09:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, Zach Taylor has never been one that has a ton of power compared to the rest of that organization.

00:09:52
Speaker 3: It's pretty clear, all right, Patrick.

00:09:53
Speaker 1: I don't think Greg's ever heard me yell before, and I think he's deeply uncompaed.

00:09:57
Speaker 4: You feel like that's yelling.

00:09:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my I told Eric, I was like when I'm mad, I still smile.

00:10:02
Speaker 4: A lot, like like yelling. Is this if they're conditional, they're not guarantees. Yeah, if there's conditions at taxes on, why do we call them guarantees. George Pickens reg is a winner, which also means Dak Prescott is a winner, which also means the Cowboys are winners in this where we see this exchange and feel like, oh, you know, George Pickens was was mercurial and he was doing all these weird things. He's at a great camp and thus far, like Dak Prescott had twenty six throws on a mini camp day, which signals to me that Dak is out there and they feel comfortable with him throwing that much. You mentioned the Schottenheimer vibes of getting promoted to actually a place where he'll be successful as a head coach where maybe that success didn't necessarily come as an offensive coordinator, and I've bought in.

00:10:47
Speaker 2: The vibes are better. He's wearing a backward visor. That was what really did it for me.

00:10:50
Speaker 1: I kind of love that, Like, I don't hate him for wearing a backward visor. I just he looks Why.

00:10:55
Speaker 3: Would you hate him for wearing a backward visor.

00:10:57
Speaker 1: No, Oh my gosh. Hate is a strong word here people, you use it. I'm just saying, like, I don't like he pulls it off, is what I'm saying. It's like the reverse hatfish, Like he really pulls it off. It's awesome.

00:11:09
Speaker 2: If anyone was gonna pull it off for some reason, it is. It is shoddy. Yeah, good, good week for the Cowboys. Just that they got Michael Parsons too. I throw them in as a winner. That he's actually out there, it's not a big difference to me, but it indicates he's definitely not holding out a training camp. He did show up to mandatory mini camp, unlike Trey Hendrickson and TG.

00:11:27
Speaker 3: Why.

00:11:28
Speaker 2: I obviously don't follow those guys for not showing up. But he even jumps into some individual drills, which I think was like, not the plan that said. We had Ian rappaport on earlier this week, and he thought that's the holdout that might go the longest, and so he'll probably have a hold in here in Oxnard. I would not be surprised. All right, give me a winner or a loser.

00:11:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of piggybacks off of that, and the Cowboys kind of on the ascension in terms of vibes, and it seems very much to be the case new offensive coordinators who are taking over already solid offenses or offenses who already have a franchise quarter back, King Grizzard and the Lizard Wizard over at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, John Morton with the Lions, Grant Udinski with the Jaguars, Nick Kaylee with the Texans, Kevin Patullo with the Eagles, and Clayton Adams with the Cowboys. The aforementioned Cowboys. These are all relatively inexperienced, some longtime coaches, but relatively in experienced coordinators who are taking over teams that are very competent right now, or at least on the offensive side.

00:12:25
Speaker 2: So they're being set up in positions to succeed. I'm like a lot of Yeah, I would also be fired people.

00:12:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:12:32
Speaker 1: I could also say we could also build this into the loser category in terms of hiring practices across the league, but you'd have to do a quick Google search on all of the names that I mentioned. Why what Who's a winner? Give me a winner, A different winner, a different winner.

00:12:48
Speaker 3: I would go.

00:12:48
Speaker 2: Xavier Lagett because he's he's in a glorilla video.

00:12:53
Speaker 4: Literally almost screw fine.

00:12:56
Speaker 2: Sorry no, I have so many too, but that was like the biggest one. I forgot about it last week. I was just like what I saw.

00:13:01
Speaker 1: It in the rundown. I was like, did Kreik talk about this yet?

00:13:04
Speaker 2: It's also like not just that he is in a glorilla video, he's in it sort of as like a symbol of a highly attractive young man, like he is the object in the video, so who wouldn't want to be that as a twenty two year old.

00:13:22
Speaker 4: It reminds me of when the TikTok memes started abba habba of Bryce Young last season, like Who's going to beat the Chiefs? And then it was it was all these Bryce Young memes that the same sort of energy surrounding Xavier, Like this video has changed the social media perspective on Xavier Laget from the guy that drops the ball in which, like I know, like Packers fans will remember the era of Davante dropping the ball and it's like, oh, this guy he can't catch. This is bad. But I think the vibes have shifted and now there's more collective belief in Xavier Laget that he's like, as Glorilla said, the type of player that Panthers fans want.

00:14:00
Speaker 1: You liked that.

00:14:00
Speaker 2: I thought about trying to pull off a joke like that, and I called an audible halfway through. I was like, the downside is too great?

00:14:08
Speaker 1: Probably a good call.

00:14:09
Speaker 4: You're good.

00:14:10
Speaker 2: It's definitely a trend. We got Stefan Diggs with Cardi b. We got Sauce Gardner with Ice Spice. It's all happening here in the NFL. We're at the center of the culture. And you know what Glorilla reminds me of is that she randomly was getting pitched to be on and was expected to be on NFL Total Access about three years ago, and I happened to have had a conversation with someone about her going on to the show because they weren't really familiar at that time and it was just when she was just starting to pop.

00:14:42
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, you got to do that, that's going to be great.

00:14:45
Speaker 2: And in the end they decided they said no, they didn't have her on because and what I really want to say is, you got to trust my instincts on what the kids are listening to.

00:14:56
Speaker 3: In terms of.

00:14:56
Speaker 2: Pop culture, because I was on it. I was like, no, no, she's she's about to take off. She's popping off, and we said, no, bad job, bad job. Give me another winner.

00:15:09
Speaker 4: That's like a sliding doors moment for NFL Total Access may may for a rest, not okay.

00:15:14
Speaker 1: One of my winners is that the Falcons are building their program thoroughly out with Mike Penix, that they also have a quality backup quarterback and possible trade in Kirk Cousins, and that Kirk Cousins came out and said that he probably overestimated how ready he was to play after his Achilles injury, which like all of us could have and did say. But I respect the Falcons for like letting him go on his own discovery journey and still drafting the quarterback understanding that, hey, maybe this guy won't be ready who we just gave a bunch of money to, we should probably still go out and draft quarterback. I do think we have sound of that as well.

00:15:51
Speaker 6: I think when the season ended last year, you know, as I started them getting into working on my body and having the time to do that, felt like I thought I was much better than I was. And I think you learn that as you as you improve, as you make improvements, you realize, oh, I thought I was already back and I'm still, you know, making a lot of improvements.

00:16:11
Speaker 4: Heres.

00:16:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Kirk is a winner of this mini camp. I know it doesn't look like it on paper, but I think he's a winner in terms of like he shows up and he I think there's a lot of hand ringing about like the vibes that would potentially be happening in that quarterback room. To that, I say, clearly, those people don't really know Kirk Cousins, who is not the type of person to cause any sort of internal toxicity. Rahee Morris is like praising him for being in the front row of the meetings all the same. And they also don't know Mike Pennix, who is one of the calmest, most prepared and collective collected people who could be playing quarterback for you and potentially being your franchise quarterback. I honestly think this is a win win win, because the Falcons also look really smart for having navigated this way. Money aside, they look really smart for having this plan in place and potentially having a trade piece later in the season wants Kirk if something else God forbid, happens to another quarterback and a team needs a quarterback and comes calling for the Falcons.

00:17:14
Speaker 2: It's true, Kirk a chance, It's true, and yet the biggest reason he's still on the Falcons is just no other team wanted him. The reporting is just if anyone had taken on ten million dollars of his salary and given anything, they would have traded him. But I think you're right in the end the way they've managed that and the way they talked about each other, Kirk and Michael Pennix, I think they're cool and it would be great to have Kirk Cousins as your backup ultimately, because I don't know that Michael Pennox is going to survive the season, so Raps.

00:17:41
Speaker 3: She kind of convinced me on that one.

00:17:42
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean they wouldn't trade Kirk if they get a decent offer in camp. But ultimately, if you're just worried about the twenty twenty five Falcons, they're much better with Kirk Cousins as their backup quarterback versus.

00:17:52
Speaker 3: And I don't know who is their number three right now.

00:17:54
Speaker 1: And I want to reiterate too, like he they gave the Falcons gave Kirk every opportunity, to the point of losing games to keep that job last year. And yes, the injury was a factor that we now know of per Kirk Cousins, but like they gave him every opportunity to win that job, and Michael Pennox took over and looked like the future. If you go back and watch some of the throws that he made over that stretch, he looked like the future of this offense. They the conversations that I've had with people in Atlanta, he is the future of this offense. And so, yes, it sucks, and it sucks to watch your kind of career get relegated to this before your eyes. And certainly the injury is a significant factor in that. But Kirk did not keep the job. He just didn't keep the job. I think he has a self awareness of that, That's what I'm hearing from from his comments.

00:18:43
Speaker 4: Well, I think he's always had the self awareness. I feel like he's comfortable now, yeah, to acknowledge that that wasn't Kirk Cousins that we saw towards the middle and the end of his run last season, and he said it right there, like I thought. I think he knew. I don't think it was a surprise to Kirk and be like, oh, well, it turns out I wasn't actually back. No, I think he knew.

00:19:03
Speaker 2: But you have to delude yourself in great professional athletes, they have to have a certain amount of delusion to get to where they are.

00:19:10
Speaker 3: He's thirty six years old.

00:19:11
Speaker 2: He suffered that torn achilles much later than Aaron Rodgers did, like in terms of the course of the season, so it does make a lot of sense that he could be in better shape. Their number three quarterback right now is Easton Stick. They also have an undrafted free agent Emery Jones, so that is a pretty big upgrade at your backup spot in case anything happened to the man.

00:19:31
Speaker 1: Michael Pennox, the fourth quarterback Weston Stick.

00:19:34
Speaker 3: Hey, now, thanks, Patrick, come on.

00:19:39
Speaker 4: There it is.

00:19:41
Speaker 1: I'll take it.

00:19:42
Speaker 3: Who's up? Who's up? On Winters?

00:19:44
Speaker 4: I made an Easton Stick joke one time on GDL and Scott Piola thought I was referencing a hockey stick, so I was referencing a baseball bet. But it's a big sporting that's company anyway. Speaking of Achilles, winner is the fact that Aaron Glenn said Jermaine Johnson might be able to start the twenty twenty five season, which makes me more excited for this Jets team. Where As we've collectively looked at it, yeah, piece by piece. As the off season has gone on, there's more reasons to believe, and I think getting Jermaine Johnson back at the edge at some point, whether it's again it's an achilles, so like we just discussed with Kirk Cousins, it's going to take time to get back to the way that he was playing before. But such a good force run and pass off the edge, just a solid player in that position. Again, the whole roster looks so much better with just a little bit of change and a little bit of belief. With Aaron Glenn sprinkling things.

00:20:35
Speaker 1: In, I know he's got the it factor. I've said this before on the show. I've really liked most, if not all, of the things the Jets have done this season. They fall very much into my off season and mini camp and probably training camp winners column. You've got Justin Fields leading a total, excellent vibes, probably smash mouth offense. I saw a highlight. I mean, I know it's this time of year where we do see the highlights. I saw a highlight of one of the past that he made downfield at mini camp, and it drew a collective like I think, exhale of happiness from that entire area that where it's just felt so toxic for so long on the field, and then stars with extensions coming due soon are actually showing up to these practices. Aaron Glenn cut swift ties with any of the negativity that lingered in the building prior, and did so even though he had to eat that criticism publicly from Aaron Rodgers. He just kept going to work and going about trying to make this football team better. I think it's a huge credit to Aaron Glenn and the Jets. And you know, I'm starting to buy in, guys, I am, I am starting.

00:21:37
Speaker 3: To do it.

00:21:38
Speaker 2: I've been buying in. I'm with you, Garrett. There's a lot of like Garrett Wilson looking better than he ever has.

00:21:43
Speaker 3: I mean, he's always awesome. I love this time. I can buy it.

00:21:46
Speaker 1: Everyone's great except the people who aren't.

00:21:49
Speaker 3: JK.

00:21:50
Speaker 2: Dobbins is a winner. I like that home for him in Denver. Haven't done a show since he signed there. He's going to make that team he's getting I think two point seventy five million dollar base but guaranteed too, so there's no chance that he's going to get cut beforehand. I don't know if it's like a massive change in RJ. Harvey's like fantasy stock. I saw a lot of that. It's like I think RJ. Harvey is going to be who RJ. Harvey is, and JK. Dobbins is another valuable piece to have there and probably will have a sizable workload.

00:22:23
Speaker 3: But ultimately, I never thought RJ.

00:22:25
Speaker 2: Harvey was going to be a guy that was getting more than twelve to fifteen touches a game. And if he's going to be, if he's that good, he still will even if JK.

00:22:33
Speaker 3: Dobbins is there.

00:22:33
Speaker 2: But JK Dobbins great vibes, another player who might be even better a year further removed from his surgeries.

00:22:39
Speaker 3: But he was quite good last year.

00:22:41
Speaker 2: And I always think Sean Payton knows how to get the most out of his running backs, really all his skill position players strength, so he'll focus on what JK.

00:22:50
Speaker 3: Dobbins does well and I think get a lot out of them.

00:22:54
Speaker 1: I regret to inform Arthur Smith that I have placed him in the Mini camp and OTA's Losers column, not because I think that about him as a person, or his offense or his system, but because I think that he was riding shotgun in this car being driven by Mike Tomlin, and suddenly there's a new passenger, princess in town. That person has control over the GPS and over the music, and Art Smith is like hanging on to the bumper on a skateboard. And this offense, the way that this offense comes together, is one of the stories of the off season in my opinion, because Arthur Smith is going to have to pull from a different set of knowledge, a different set of concepts than he previously has preferred that really run heavy, you know, play action, all of those types of things. Whereas Aaron Rodgers likes to change the play at the line of scrimmage, he likes to drop back, he likes to have the defense in front of him, he likes to understand and see where all of the little chess machinations are coming from. And I think both of those things are fine. It's just melding them together is what's going to be super interesting to me. And I am waiting with breath that is baitis to see what this version of the Steelers look like.

00:24:10
Speaker 2: Let's listen to Aaron Rodgers. I checked out his entire press conference with the Steelers reporters, and I found it compelling. Here's a little section of it.

00:24:19
Speaker 7: A lot of decisions that I've made over my career in life from strictly the ego, even if they turn out well or always unfulfilling, but the decisions made from the soul are usually pretty fulfilling. So this was a decision that was best for my soul.

00:24:36
Speaker 3: I believe him.

00:24:38
Speaker 2: I also it doesn't make me necessarily feel any better about the Steelers because of what you said. Like, one thing left unset about the Arthur Smith and Aaron Rodgers offenses lately is how ineffective they've been. Like even with Matt Lafleur as his coaching Green Bay was ineffective, certainly was with the Jets. Arthur Smith is on a three year losing streak essentially of ineffective offenses. And the thing that was interesting to me listening to that clipping Rogers And there was another one where they literally asked him what would it be like to win a championship here? And he said, oh that, you know, he said something like, well that what would that be? Seventh you know here, that would be that would be great. But then he went on and said but that he essentially kind of was like, but that's not what it's about for me. It's about giving back to the game and just finding joy in something that I love UH to do, which is great, But I don't know. Part of me also thinks like, once you're thinking about retirement, he just I don't know if he's quite all in as he as he used to be. How could you be?

00:25:33
Speaker 4: But that all that stuff is what's happened before. I think his level of all in uh hasn't hasn't changed. This is just a cyclical thing where he gets in the honeymoon phase with a new team and the interviews all sound great. He starts dropping Sun sue Es quotes about making decisions for his soul, and then in week four, you know, he'll be, you know, campaigning with RFK somewhere right like it's it's all, it's all, We've seen it all for It's the question of how how well is his achilles doing, how well is he going to move in the pocket and all the other stuff Mike Tomlin's gonna take care of all that. Yeah, right, it's we're gonna get.

00:26:11
Speaker 3: Okay, we're gonna negative view.

00:26:13
Speaker 1: I'm still driving.

00:26:14
Speaker 3: Okay, I got you. But the negative view, and I watched it, I was like that it wasn't.

00:26:19
Speaker 2: Really all about wins and losses anymore for him, which I think is a dangerous place to be in pro football.

00:26:24
Speaker 1: I will say, like, this is a multiple things are true at the same time situation where I believe that he believes in what he's talking about right now. I believe the Steelers signed him with the intent of we need to try to actually, you know, push past this this hump that we've been in and win. They aggressively pursued behind the scenes, but still aggressively pursued different quarterbacks this off season and ultimately came to Aaron Rodgers. Gave him the leeway and the patients to be able to have his off season the way that he wanted to have his off season. And at the same time, like, Aaron Rodgers is many things right, but right now he strikes me as somebody who is deeply committed to trying to go out on a high note. Yes, whatever that looks like whether it's I think he has to and perhaps based on these comments, has come to terms with the fact that it might not mean a great record, but he wants it to feel like a high note. That's what I'm getting from those comments.

00:27:32
Speaker 3: I think.

00:27:33
Speaker 2: I think that's well said and a good interpretation of everything. And it's funny because him being in charge of the offense or cheat that was like one of the things he bristled at was like, well, I've always just played within an offense.

00:27:44
Speaker 3: I'm never changing the place. And I'm like, bro, we can see you cod.

00:27:47
Speaker 4: It's literally the reason he got hurt. It's literally the reason.

00:27:50
Speaker 2: It's also like part of the reason why he's recorded some of the greatest seasons of all time. I can remember so far back as like there was this little twenty fourteen twenty fifth team lull in his career, and the huge criticisms at the time with McCarthy was he was so like he had lost his balance of instructure and out of structure and he essentially was just like vibing out there and not doing the places called. That was more than a decade ago, and I think it's only gotten stronger since. But I don't know if it's good for my soul, but I am happy Aaron Rodgers back in the league.

00:28:21
Speaker 3: I think it's going to make these Steelers games more important.

00:28:23
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and we will be back with some more winners and losers, wrapping up Mini camp season.

00:28:29
Speaker 3: After the break.

00:28:39
Speaker 2: Back on NFL Daily, Kyle Shanahan got annoyed with the reporters who are keeping stats in Ota.

00:28:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm team Kyle Shanahan on this.

00:28:49
Speaker 3: I get it. And he's saying that.

00:28:53
Speaker 2: The keeping of the stats is not only misleading for the people that are radiant, but it's actually impacting the way the players play. Let's say maybe a quarterback is trying to get more completions than he normally would because he knows they're keeping track and negatively impacting their learning a little uh wagging the tail thing.

00:29:15
Speaker 3: I never really don't.

00:29:16
Speaker 4: If only there was somebody to properly contextualize the things people were seeing and you know, honestly evaluate them when else, well.

00:29:23
Speaker 2: I don't think he would have I don't think he would approve on us going winners and losers. I guess we'd be on the side of like Nope, Sorry, Kyle, there are winners and losers.

00:29:32
Speaker 1: I actually in my losers column, I had the people putting actual weight. I guess track as many stats as you want, but in a loser's column, I had putting actual weight on it. And I do have like a quick, very quick anecdote on that front, if you will, guys will indulge me, of course. I remember in twenty twenty one when Matthew Stafford first arrived in Los Angeles, he used the joint practices against the Raiders and the Cowboys during that to basically troubleshoot the range of his receivers and what windows within this offense. You know, receivers in the Sean McVay system, especially at that time, they were changing around some of the landmarks that they would ask receivers to run to, basically the spot on the field to which the quarterback throws the ball. Understanding that Stafford was a quarterback who could freestyle a little bit more, could be more creative with the range of what that route, structure and spacing would look like down the field. So he was using those practice. He threw like seven interceptions in one practice, and I remember the collective narrative, especially from visiting media at the time, was people losing their GD minds over this. This is the bus trade. This isn't going to work out. He's washed, He's it. Conversely, Jalen Ramsey was playing in the star position, so the slot their hybrid slot safety corner for the first time, and working on a new type of match zone that conceptually they were trying to install that offseason. Clips of him giving up a two yard pass, videos of him giving up a three yard past.

00:31:04
Speaker 3: He's cooked, he's washed.

00:31:06
Speaker 1: They're never going to be the same again. And what did the Rams go and do that year? Win the Super Bowl. I'm just saying this to say, like people use these practices to try things right, to learn things. Well, what Kyle said actual competition, Like none of this matters.

00:31:23
Speaker 3: Yet, especially now. And Kyle was like before they could just practice. The point of practice is to practice. I agree, I was.

00:31:30
Speaker 2: I have like losers are people putting too much into mini camps.

00:31:33
Speaker 3: Here's how you can tell you shouldn't. I mean put too much into them?

00:31:37
Speaker 2: Is half the teams like cancel and don't take all the days even necessary. They cancel the last day or two, they cancel next week if it was that important.

00:31:44
Speaker 3: They wouldn't and so they should just be you know, it is practice.

00:31:47
Speaker 2: I think the most important things you can draw from them are stuff that we're talking about, like depth chart, like where the coaches are telling us stuff or injuries happen. Unfortunately in defense of.

00:31:57
Speaker 4: The of the charters right away, Yeah, yeah, a lot of that. A lot of folks came up in eras where coaches were reluctant to share information. Availability was limited, viewing opportunity was very limited, and so there's there's scraps, right, and you have people that are trying to just claw together every scrap that they can. It's very difficult to walk around the field and just absorb vibes, right, So it's like, oh, so and so was x of X for x yards and x touchdowns And then you know, you could poise that to the coach and then the coach could properly contextualize that. But in a lot of situations they may say something like we're all we all could be dead on Sunday or not actually answer the question in the first place, which push people in position to chart.

00:32:40
Speaker 2: Right, that's totally true, and uh, like you're only allowed to show up as a media during OTA is usually once in an entire week.

00:32:48
Speaker 3: Mini camps used to be totally different.

00:32:50
Speaker 2: Not to age myself, but you used to be able to tackle and wear pads and they did two practice. It wasn't that lot, though, But so if we're the CBA, they would do two practices day one like it would be like a training camp day essentially.

00:33:02
Speaker 3: And now now it's different.

00:33:03
Speaker 2: Now they're canceling the final Saints practice to go to five oh four f O r E, which I'm guessing is some sort of either mini golf or top golf copy Ane's new album.

00:33:18
Speaker 1: More information is that they don't all I'm saying more information and trust in the reporters on the ground is good. It's just that when you're weighing too much in this time of year, you go down this deep dark path and I just don't want that for people. I don't want that for you. The fans. I love better for you.

00:33:34
Speaker 2: I love that they put the Saints having practice or not on that that's what they say, at least on rookie QB Hunter Deckers making a three pointer or not, and he hit the three pointer and everyone so lucky. It's then they get to go play golf.

00:33:48
Speaker 3: You're up.

00:33:49
Speaker 4: It's sad loser and winner. I'll combine them because it's injury related for both of them. Will start with the good news. Keaton Mitchell uh fully recovered and on the way back from that ACL tear that came rookie season which was very promising, and the Ravens go and rush for over three thousand yards and have a great running season. And now Keith Mitchell gets to be added back to that finally fully healthy behind Derrick Henry. And on the downside, a little bit further away in the Tri State area, Michael Gallup having a setback, waiting for his comeback to fully come to fruition. And so that's that sucks.

00:34:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, the worst thing to hear this time of year are injuries. So let's just fire through a couple. Noah Brown had what sounded like the most serious injury from this week.

00:34:30
Speaker 3: We'll see, we don't know the results, but he was carted off.

00:34:32
Speaker 2: Was very frustrated, I think described as a buy a reporter of there. Ben Standig is like slamming his helmet, kind of yelling out when they went over a bump, which not a great sign for him. They also don't have Terry McLaurin there, but that's not because of an injury. That's just he's pitching out waiting for a new contract. So that's disappointing. Also, just everyone ease off on debo looking a little slow on one of those routes and a little bigger, like they're not playing at full speed. He's not trying to run his fastest, so let's just calm down.

00:35:01
Speaker 1: I also guarantee you he is gonna be so hard to tackle regardless. So like if a freight train is coming at you, or a slightly smaller and thinner freight train is coming at you, it's still a freight train.

00:35:13
Speaker 4: People. Has never been a small guy.

00:35:15
Speaker 3: Right he is.

00:35:16
Speaker 2: He is a big boy. But this like the route that they had like multiple people like it was like a drill, like like let's calm down. But in in uh San Francisco. They have a couple of receivers that have been out there on my radar because Ricky Pearsall just wasn't able to stay healthy last year and he missed most of the ots. Juwan Jennings has been out with a calf. The Bears are missing Colston Loveland. He might not be ready for training camp. So that's whenever the second year player you hear like, well, I never really caught up because I missed so much of the off season. We tend to like overlook the off season part of it, and Luthor Burdon really hasn't practiced for them. So a lot of just like in little injuries that will keep an eye on going.

00:35:55
Speaker 3: It's a camp. Give me something.

00:35:56
Speaker 1: You like Ricky Piersall who was literally shot. You're mentioning that as he could not stay on the phone.

00:36:03
Speaker 2: I oh, I was not referring to that. I was referring to the injuries that he has. Yes, so clear toy here, he had injuries before that that he was not on the field even before that happen, and then when he came back, he suffered through a couple of different separate injuries.

00:36:19
Speaker 3: But I'm glad you cleared that out.

00:36:21
Speaker 1: I have a Bear's positive that is less big picture but more a couple of pieces that I've been reading coming out of Bear's mini camp. It seems like they're really focusing in on the details, to the point where Ben Johnson is like losing his gourd at Cole Comet for lining up a yard off in his split, which is actually that's that's a thing you have to when you have those splits the way that he likes to run his formations, like you need to be in the exact specific right place, like even an inch off affects the spacing deeper down the field. So I read a story about that, then I read a story about them practicing a ton of situational football. So for me, the Bears are winners because they're doing these things at a high intensity, even in a low intensity time of year, to try to reset the narrative that they just are are messy all throughout.

00:37:13
Speaker 2: That is a little bit of a trope, but also one that I think that's a really sic meaningful because it's a Mi Mike Rabel. He's getting the same pop of like, hey, they're making them redo the plays they're making. Drake may call out a certain cadence and if anyone jumps off side, then you got to do the thing, whereas that would have never happened last year. But I also do believe certain coaches pay closer attention to details much more than others. You could see it when Tennis Allen, for instance, replaced Sean Payton, like they just got sloppy in a second.

00:37:43
Speaker 3: And that starts in the office.

00:37:44
Speaker 1: And I think that Ben Johnson, because he coached under Dan Campbell, like has this like sort of warm fuzzy rep by association just not the case at all. Like he is hyper detailed, very intense. He's like not the warm fuzzy bear hug at the podium of Dan Campbell. He's all biting kneecaps of Dan Campbell. And he can also, by the way, identify the specific location of the potel attendant. So he is like, wow, hyper fixated and very intense. And I think it is what the Bears need. And that's that's my point.

00:38:18
Speaker 2: I'm going to give a winner to the Pittsburgh Steelers' assistant coaches who are giving us hardcore depth chart updates. Their wide receiver coach said very clearly, Calvin Austen is our number two. Y'all don't realize he's underrated. He actually made the case for Calvin Austin as a better blocker than people realized, despite his one hundred and sixty two pounds. I do think Calvin Austin has been a better player in the NFL than people realized. But he said like, that's our number two, Like, stop asking who's the number two?

00:38:46
Speaker 3: Interesting?

00:38:47
Speaker 2: And then their defensive line coach said, Derek Harmon is our left starting defensive end. He's our you know, you guys can stop asking that too. He's our rookie. He is going to start. So just a little bit of like.

00:38:58
Speaker 3: Morsels of nuggets. Why information and I like it?

00:39:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, it doesn't. It's not going to make them try less hard. It's like, oh, I can get super comfortable now, and yeah, it's the type of thing that that is good. It's the information that that people go to mini camp to cover and get stuff like that. Why why keep it behind this veil of mystery? And no coach ever is going to be like, hey, you know, you guys need to properly contextualize me having guys redo things, you know, like that's something that they're completely okay with him, you being like, yeah, Mike.

00:39:27
Speaker 1: Rabel, he was actually seven inches off of his spot, not a yard.

00:39:31
Speaker 4: It went crazy today because detail wasn't specifically adhered to.

00:39:35
Speaker 2: They also, yeah, I have a boss that they clearly like Mike Tommins like yeah, you can say whatever. There'd be some coaches that that would probably be.

00:39:42
Speaker 4: Yeah, well no, what would be the point of not saying it.

00:39:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of my winners was quarterbacks getting either engaged or married. Okay, yeah, especially during this miniicamp time of year to pivot slightly. Jalen and Brianna Hurts, Josh Allen and Hailey Steinfeld, Aaron Rodgers. I don't know if he said specifically who he had gotten married to.

00:40:03
Speaker 2: Drake May and it's Britney with an I based on a Pat McAfee appearance from like six months ago or three months something like that.

00:40:09
Speaker 3: Okay, that's it. That's all details.

00:40:12
Speaker 1: Drake Man and Hudson are about to get married. High school sweethearts Jordan Love and Ronica Stone and Matthew Stafford and the Rams renewed their vows for another year. Okay. So I have to admit to you, guys, I only knew like two of these. So I crowdsourced it with my fifteen person all women's NFL reporter group chat, and the first response I got back was everybody, they're all married to the game. Shout out to Catherine Fitzgerald, the perfect it's perfect response.

00:40:41
Speaker 3: I'm happy for all the all these young.

00:40:42
Speaker 1: Man's I love, love it's awesome.

00:40:45
Speaker 4: I have a winner in a Trope update. It comes our courtesy of Cardinals tight end Trade McBride, who said that the Cardinals offense was adding a lot of sauce. Oh off season, and it's like we step away from yeah, we're going to be more precise, We're gonna be more multiple, working different position groups. He went ahead and said that the offense is going to have more sauce. And I like that because it's a little bit of mystery, but we also know exactly what he means.

00:41:08
Speaker 2: I like that Marvin Harrison has added copious amounts of tricep muscles.

00:41:15
Speaker 3: I don't know if you.

00:41:15
Speaker 1: See you're on for Trope al art, Like.

00:41:17
Speaker 2: They're like, there, it's been a whole like it's a huge story in Arizona where it's just like he has showed up and he's just outrageous. And then they sent they sent like a picture out and people are just all into Marvin Harrison's triceps. All the reporters there, it's all happening. The triceps are taking over.

00:41:33
Speaker 4: The top result when I sarched it is is Marvin Harrison getting too jacked.

00:41:39
Speaker 5: It.

00:41:40
Speaker 2: On the other side of the veil at this There is such a is there's such a thing as to people used to think CMC was two jacked. CMC, by the way, fully healthy, practicing fully. It's rare that that is happening. So that's just that's just a little notable. I'll throw a winner out that bow. Melton is trying to be like Travis Hunter and playing on both sides of the ball. It's not a great sign for his career as a receiver in Green Bay, where he's probably fighting an uphill battle to make the team as like a pure receiver. But he's out there straight up playing cornerback now like his bro Max Melton on the Arizona Cardinals. So maybe he can be some sort of hybrid special teamer cornerback, six cornerback, sixth receiver.

00:42:20
Speaker 4: Let's go COACHLF did like clarify, he's like bo is still a wide receiver. Okay, but it's hard not to take negatives away from like seeing a number eighty out there, like working on his punch, It's like, oh, no, what are we doing?

00:42:35
Speaker 3: If it helped, yeah, if it helps you make the two.

00:42:36
Speaker 2: If you look at all the guys they've drafted and the guys who are just bigger than him.

00:42:41
Speaker 3: He's got an uphill battle. So that's good.

00:42:43
Speaker 2: Raiders fans, I'm going to say, are losers for wanting. Anyone that's a Raiders fan that just wants to forget about Derek Carr's playoff throw against Jermaine Pratt, they won't be able to because Jermaine Pratt is now a member of the ring.

00:42:58
Speaker 1: I've started to be worried for you. What I did, s trainer Steven, See what I did there started? You had me the first half. I'm not gonna lie.

00:43:06
Speaker 4: It was a heat seeking missile that navigated its way past Remaine Brett to the couch that there a car.

00:43:17
Speaker 2: I saw Bengals fan say that was one of the best moments. I saw Bengals fan say that was one of the best moments of their life.

00:43:25
Speaker 3: Did Jermaine Pratt intercept it?

00:43:26
Speaker 2: And it's true if you if you're thinking about the the losing streak and the playoffs and the struggles that they had, that kick that kick started at all. But now when Pratt's out there, you know, good signing for the Raiders. Get give a veteran guy a chance at a position of of need.

00:43:40
Speaker 3: But it's just going to remind Raiders fans.

00:43:42
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna show them how far that they've come, okay, and that this is a totally new start and there's there's new things to celebrate and enjoy. You don't have to necessarily cape for anybody in their massive mistakes.

00:43:52
Speaker 2: All right, we should We should get the people on their way if we If you guys want to do any speed round winners and losers before we say good by to this edition of Mini Camp, you know, wrap up.

00:44:04
Speaker 1: The Panthers are a winner in my book. Getting Derek Brown back this season is going to be huge for their defense. Also, Trevon Morrigg sounds like he's already making a splash in practices. Yes, it is OTAs we are not going to put too much stock in it, but they badly need somebody who can play that versatile safety come into the box, help defend the run, who also can make plays.

00:44:22
Speaker 3: On the ball.

00:44:22
Speaker 1: Their defense needs the juice and getting him into the mix on that three year deal, but also regaining Derek Brown, signing Bobby Brown, all of these things are good for the Panthers.

00:44:32
Speaker 2: Tech mcmaillan out of practice and just someone to keep an eye on coming into training camp just in case that's serious.

00:44:37
Speaker 3: You just don't know this time of year.

00:44:38
Speaker 4: And congratulations all the folks who were agitated by Rashi Rice's non appearance in our receiver ranking that he was a full participant working his way back and get some more Rashi Rice, so you can get out there and prove.

00:44:49
Speaker 2: Us roll shout out to the receiver rankings. But still doing you know, good numbers. People are going back to that. People getting mad. You know, I don't feel bad. I think Recei Rice was very solidly like around thirty five. Yeah he was not even the one of the first guys off, but he was definitely in the top forty.

00:45:06
Speaker 3: He's got to prove it. He's got to stay on the field quickly.

00:45:10
Speaker 2: James Cook, his financial advisor, is absolutely a winner.

00:45:15
Speaker 3: Let's listen to why James is back at practice.

00:45:17
Speaker 4: It is mandatory, but why did you decide to come?

00:45:22
Speaker 5: I like my money, Yeah, he will definitely do so That's why I'm here.

00:45:28
Speaker 3: It is Yeah, I need that for him.

00:45:32
Speaker 2: If you're making it now too, you can invest it in the near terma. And it also indicates to me he's not gonna miss any of training camp, and so ultimately, even though he probably deserves a new contract, I don't think he's going to be holding out.

00:45:44
Speaker 4: C J.

00:45:44
Speaker 2: Stroud was back at practice, so that's good for the Texans fans that were worried. He just said he needed to take a little bit of a rest with his arm, but he's back to practicing fully. And then a lot of big Nickel love Derwin James and Nick Emon Worry both getting that offseason, we're gonna play to the line of scrimmage. Derwin James of course did that very much effectively at the end of last season, but they're going to try to lean into that more and it definitely sounds like even Worry they're using essentially as a linebacker is yes.

00:46:12
Speaker 1: You know, my theory on this is that people understand that the quote unquote cover linebacker is still just as important as they always have been because of the news the modern since you know, the early mid twenty fifteens and beyond twenty seventeen, beyond spacing and play action and all of those types of things. So they still need a cover player in that area. But they also understand how prevalent the run game is regaining its own momentum and its own steam, and so they still need that downhill force to help stop the run. So I think you're going to see more one and a half linebacker sets, which means a actual linebacker a lah Ernest Jones, and then Nick em and worry coming in is that hybrid player to help with the coverage as well. So I think this is going to be fun.

00:46:55
Speaker 2: Shout out to Dan Buchanan ahead of his time. It's kind of like the only guy filling this role about seven or eight years ago. Now there's a whole league full of them.

00:47:04
Speaker 1: Check Thompson, Erasure But okay, I.

00:47:06
Speaker 2: Mean I feel like that's fair check Toobs, but check Thomson to me, was just like an outside line back.

00:47:11
Speaker 1: Nicol.

00:47:12
Speaker 3: Yes, uh, great show, great week.

00:47:15
Speaker 2: We will be back next week on Monday, and you know what, it's going to be the same.

00:47:21
Speaker 1: Trio here, maybe even in the same outfit.

00:47:24
Speaker 2: No I brought a change a change of clothes. But we are going to be talking about the secret weapons. Remember we did it a couple of weeks back. This time it'll be from the National Football Conference.

00:47:36
Speaker 3: Football is taking a break.

00:47:37
Speaker 4: It's my back.

00:47:38
Speaker 3: What taking a little break?