Superman IV (1987): What the heck happened?

<v Speaker 1>This is a podcast from Minute Media.
<v Speaker 2>Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't
<v Speaker 2>Be Serious Podcast. We have a very special occasion today.
<v Speaker 3>Up in the air. It's a bird, it's a plane.
<v Speaker 2>No, it's the most craptastic movie you've ever seen in
<v Speaker 2>your life.
<v Speaker 3>This time, it's personal. It is personal this time. You know.
<v Speaker 3>For a long time we've said we don't pick losers, right,
<v Speaker 3>but today we're picking losers.
<v Speaker 2>But we are picking the number one losers, the absolute
<v Speaker 2>best losers of all time.
<v Speaker 3>We've got our buddies today. Hey, we've got Jeff and
<v Speaker 3>Brad from the Film By podcast. Guys, how are you
<v Speaker 3>doing today?
<v Speaker 4>Doing great?
<v Speaker 5>Jason and de the dudes of Steel Boy you gotta
<v Speaker 5>get it?
<v Speaker 2>Uh, you stole one of my line.
<v Speaker 3>Quotes are coming out early.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So everybody who's used to our normal format on
<v Speaker 2>the podcast, we were doing something completely different today. Number one,
<v Speaker 2>we have a couple of awesome guests from another podcast
<v Speaker 2>called a Film Buy. We have done a podcast with
<v Speaker 2>these guys before. We've got Jeff and Brad together today
<v Speaker 2>with us, and we previously done a movie of nineteen
<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, which was also a sequel. We did Ghostbusters too.
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was one of the best episodes that
<v Speaker 2>we ever did. I was a little bummed that we
<v Speaker 2>didn't publish it to our stuff. You guys had you
<v Speaker 2>had You had a great episode right there. I thought
<v Speaker 2>that was a really fun one to do, and it
<v Speaker 2>was great to work with you guys. I'm really excited
<v Speaker 2>to be hear doing it again.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, thank you.
<v Speaker 4>Well, I figured that you guys wanted to do another movie.
<v Speaker 4>Were Statue of Liberty like leaves Liberty Island And I'm like,
<v Speaker 4>are we seriously doing another movie where the Statue of
<v Speaker 4>Liberty moves again?
<v Speaker 3>But wow, I didn't even think about that.
<v Speaker 6>Man.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the body once what the body wants?
<v Speaker 3>Right?
<v Speaker 2>Okay, guys, So today we are covering Superman four. Typically
<v Speaker 2>our format is to bounce back and forth between the
<v Speaker 2>two movies that we cover, but we're going to start
<v Speaker 2>with Superman for the Quest for I don't know what
<v Speaker 2>they were really looking for, and this was really pretty bad.
<v Speaker 2>I got a couple of couple of quotes here that
<v Speaker 2>I feel like is appropriate for this intro. The first
<v Speaker 2>one is betrayed, betrayed, betrayed, and then you stole my
<v Speaker 2>the dude to steal you're gonna get it, But I
<v Speaker 2>think probably the best one is stop, don't do it?
<v Speaker 5>The people, Oh my god, passion that it was Shakespeare.
<v Speaker 2>So we were going to talk about Superman four first,
<v Speaker 2>then on our next episode we will be talking about
<v Speaker 2>Jaws the Revenge. We can't call it Jaws four, right,
<v Speaker 2>because who knows if they really even consider Jaws three
<v Speaker 2>a part of the series or not. I don't know,
<v Speaker 2>But today we are talking Superman four, Cannon produced, Canon ruined,
<v Speaker 2>and the end of what had begun as a spectacular series. Guys,
<v Speaker 2>how recently have you seen Superman four?
<v Speaker 4>Last night?
<v Speaker 5>For me it was it was last night for me
<v Speaker 5>as well.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, last night.
<v Speaker 2>Wow, okay, So I can't believe I've never ahead. I
<v Speaker 2>woke up at two o'clock in the morning. I'm like, well,
<v Speaker 2>I might as well watch Superman four while I'm not sleeping.
<v Speaker 2>So I watched it a couple of nights ago. It
<v Speaker 2>is the first time that I've seen it since I
<v Speaker 2>saw it in the theater in nineteen eighty seven. Wow. Wow,
<v Speaker 2>really yeah? And I can wait another thirty four thirty
<v Speaker 2>five years, so I see it again.
<v Speaker 3>Did you guys see this in the theater or what's
<v Speaker 3>what's your relationship with it?
<v Speaker 5>I saw it in the theater?
<v Speaker 3>Did you cry or I remember?
<v Speaker 5>I remember being a little upset, not because you know,
<v Speaker 5>I was a little bit I was a little just
<v Speaker 5>a little bit older, because I had seen Superman two,
<v Speaker 5>I had seen Superman three, and you know, enjoyed them,
<v Speaker 5>but I did not enjoy this one at all.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, you know what.
<v Speaker 4>I didn't see it in the theater. But what I
<v Speaker 4>saw was my local like market like gas station, jeff
<v Speaker 4>Nos a UDF used to sell just like a pin
<v Speaker 4>wheel of comic books, and they had a movie adaptation
<v Speaker 4>of Superman four in comic book form. So actually read
<v Speaker 4>it before seeing the movie, but I didn't see it
<v Speaker 4>until it came out on a video.
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So the question that I had when I watched
<v Speaker 2>this movie the first time and when I watched it
<v Speaker 2>thirty five years later the second time, is how did
<v Speaker 2>this piece of crap get made?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>And the answer comes down to money and the lack thereof.
<v Speaker 2>Dear listener, if you haven't checked out our episode where
<v Speaker 2>Jason and I and John Reid from the thirty something
<v Speaker 2>Movie Podcast compare Man of Steel versus Superman one and two.
<v Speaker 2>Definitely go check those out. The saul Kinds are the
<v Speaker 2>producers of those movies, the original two movies, and they
<v Speaker 2>had also done Superman three, which I love, sucked, I
<v Speaker 2>think Jeff and Joyce I had with it.
<v Speaker 4>Okay, I took some I took Jason's advice from when
<v Speaker 4>you guys did the Batman episode where you went and
<v Speaker 4>you watched like Batman Forever and Batman and Robin doing this.
<v Speaker 4>I watched Superman three and Superman four like together to
<v Speaker 4>compare him, to see which one.
<v Speaker 5>Was better or worse.
<v Speaker 4>And I'm ah, man, this was a hard one. This
<v Speaker 4>was the harm one because Superman three I watched, tried
<v Speaker 4>to watch it a couple of nights ago, and I
<v Speaker 4>had to turn it off.
<v Speaker 3>But I pushed through it.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I had.
<v Speaker 3>I pushed through it.
<v Speaker 4>The beginning. The beginning is just too comical.
<v Speaker 3>The opening scene is ludicrous.
<v Speaker 2>It's hilarious.
<v Speaker 3>It's not it's not supposed to be hilarious. We're talking
<v Speaker 3>about Superman.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I got two words for both Brad and
<v Speaker 2>Jason that why this why Superman three is by far
<v Speaker 2>better than Superman four. And those two words are a
<v Speaker 2>net o'tool thank you, thank you.
<v Speaker 3>And I say help Mauriel Hemingway.
<v Speaker 2>Right, Merria Hemingway is nice to look at, but she
<v Speaker 2>brought nothing to the table. At least a net O'Toole
<v Speaker 2>is an accomplished actress, and her exchange with Christopher Reeve
<v Speaker 2>during the Smallville scenes is absolutely hilarious.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, listen, I'm gonna make a comparison and then we
<v Speaker 3>can move on from Superman three. But Superman three, in
<v Speaker 3>my book, was like when I watched The Last Jedi
<v Speaker 3>for the first time. I hopes kicked in the balls, right, Okay,
<v Speaker 3>massive fall from Superman two, total disappointment. What am I
<v Speaker 3>looking at? This movie is total crap. So when I
<v Speaker 3>saw Superman four, it was kind of like the Last Skywalker.
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Eh, not that bad, Yeah no, and
<v Speaker 2>I was It was the exact same. It was just
<v Speaker 2>like that for Star Wars with us. I didn't hate
<v Speaker 2>the third or the second in the sequel series, but
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely despised the last one and absolutely despised this.
<v Speaker 2>But even in between Superman three and Superman four, you
<v Speaker 2>have a salt kind production that is called Supergirl.
<v Speaker 3>I'm spiking the football early on. This is the worst
<v Speaker 3>DC movie of all time? Super Girl is an abomination.
<v Speaker 3>Have you guys seen that one?
<v Speaker 4>I had since I was a kid. I barely remember it.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it came out in eighty four. Yes, it
<v Speaker 2>on IMDb right now has a rank of four point
<v Speaker 2>four out of ten, which is pretty bad. Yeah, Superman
<v Speaker 2>four has three point seven. I don't know that I
<v Speaker 2>disagree with you. I don't know that Supergirl isn't at
<v Speaker 2>least as big a piece of crap as Superman four.
<v Speaker 2>But I think that the expectation for Supergirl was so
<v Speaker 2>low that people weren't they because they cared right Superman four.
<v Speaker 2>There was a decent chunk of folks who were unhappy
<v Speaker 2>with Superman three, but there were also a bunch of
<v Speaker 2>guys like us that absolutely loved it, and so in
<v Speaker 2>coming into Superman four, that was the we were set
<v Speaker 2>up for the biggest fall ever after having Superman one, two,
<v Speaker 2>and three on our books. Okay, but what happened is
<v Speaker 2>is that the saul Kinds had a disappointment with Superman
<v Speaker 2>three underwhelming performance on that one, they had an even
<v Speaker 2>worse performance with Supergirl, and so they were basically out
<v Speaker 2>of money. And then enter the Cannon Group.
<v Speaker 3>So the Cannon group, you got these wheeler dealer guys
<v Speaker 3>always making moves from Israel, and they wanted to crack
<v Speaker 3>into the American market. And I watched this documentary called
<v Speaker 3>Electric Boogoloo. Jeff, did you watch it?
<v Speaker 4>Documentary?
<v Speaker 3>It's awesome, love it. It made me like instant fans
<v Speaker 3>of these guys Falls of Steel. And so they would
<v Speaker 3>get movies made by simply making a poster, finding investors
<v Speaker 3>by hey, look at this poster. We're working on this
<v Speaker 3>movie right now. You can be a part of it.
<v Speaker 3>You just donate your money, and you know you can
<v Speaker 3>help us with that. Well, the movie they weren't. They
<v Speaker 3>didn't have a script, they didn't even have really an idea.
<v Speaker 3>It was just a poster. Yeah, And they would fund
<v Speaker 3>these movies just by being ballsy enough to ask for
<v Speaker 3>the money.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The two names are your Globus and Menehem Goland. Okay, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>it's just hard. I'm just going to say the Cannon
<v Speaker 2>guys from now on r Okay.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, easier that way.
<v Speaker 2>So what they would do in addition to these poster
<v Speaker 2>ideas is that so the con Film Festival would happen
<v Speaker 2>and they would show up and in the paper. They
<v Speaker 2>would buy advertisements for every single page in the paper,
<v Speaker 2>like full page advertisements for their movies. And then, like
<v Speaker 2>you said, they'd go show posters and they'd try to
<v Speaker 2>get investors for their movies that they had no script for,
<v Speaker 2>no actors, no director, nothing except a poster.
<v Speaker 3>And it worked, all right, everybody, Let's take a quick
<v Speaker 3>break and hear from our good friend mister Dayton Johnson
<v Speaker 3>over at the Docking Base seventy seven podcas Cast.
<v Speaker 2>Hi.
<v Speaker 7>I'm Dayton Johnson, the host of the docum based seventy
<v Speaker 7>seven podcast. I love to talk about movies. First of all,
<v Speaker 7>it was Bradburd's directorial debut Once from the get Go,
<v Speaker 7>proving that he is one of the best directors in Hollywood.
<v Speaker 7>There I've said it. It's so much fun, the jokes
<v Speaker 7>are great, like I said, and you have such a
<v Speaker 7>great voice. Cast Harry Connick Junior as a beat Nick
<v Speaker 7>was a stroke of genius to cast him. I mean,
<v Speaker 7>come on, I love to talk about music. I want
<v Speaker 7>to talk about the first song on the album Our
<v Speaker 7>Litster Sealed. As far as I'm concerned, this is a
<v Speaker 7>perfect pop song. It's catchy, it's fun, it's not quite
<v Speaker 7>a few minutes long. The vocals are great. It's just
<v Speaker 7>so much fun and there's nothing there's nothing wrong with it.
<v Speaker 7>It's just a perfect pop song. And I have a
<v Speaker 7>lot of friends that like to do so as well.
<v Speaker 5>The witches are are you know, as long as there
<v Speaker 5>the creepy sexy, which is you know, you shouldn't be
<v Speaker 5>looking like the neck down?
<v Speaker 4>Okay, good, but come back to us, d come back
<v Speaker 4>to us.
<v Speaker 8>No, I'm going with the wikis.
<v Speaker 2>The witches are definitely much more nightmare fuel, but the
<v Speaker 2>fact that they look like.
<v Speaker 4>The Texas Chansaw centerfolds.
<v Speaker 7>We have a lot of fun and we hope you
<v Speaker 7>will give us a listen. You can find us on Podbean,
<v Speaker 7>good Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, and remember,
<v Speaker 7>when it comes to watching movies and listening to music,
<v Speaker 7>physical media is better than streaming.
<v Speaker 3>And it worked for a while.
<v Speaker 2>It works so well that they started calling it the
<v Speaker 2>Cannon Film Festival. Wow. Well, I mean so it worked,
<v Speaker 2>so it marked Yeah, So in eighty five or eighty six,
<v Speaker 2>they're there. The saal Kinds are there. The saal Kinds
<v Speaker 2>are having money troubles, and these wheeler dealers buy the
<v Speaker 2>rights to Superman for five million dollars five million dollars.
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine buying that franchise for five million dollars
<v Speaker 2>even in eighties money that seems nuts sturgeat.
<v Speaker 5>Not as ridiculously low for a property like Superman. Absolutely
<v Speaker 5>just is.
<v Speaker 2>And just to give some perspective to that, they paid
<v Speaker 2>Christopher Reeve six million dollars just for his part, just
<v Speaker 2>for his one part. So can you imagine that the
<v Speaker 2>rights being bought for less than you pay one actor
<v Speaker 2>in the movie. It's it's crazy, it's crazy. But because
<v Speaker 2>they've got this choice piece of property, they're thinking, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>we're going to sink all of our funds into this,
<v Speaker 2>and they get together a budget of thirty six million dollars.
<v Speaker 2>Thirty six million dollars in nineteen eighty six, you're going
<v Speaker 2>to make a good movie, right.
<v Speaker 3>Well, i'll tell you this then I just throw this in.
<v Speaker 3>You know what the biggest budget movie of nineteen eighty
<v Speaker 3>seven was at thirty million dollars Caause of Revenge. Wow,
<v Speaker 3>that's thirty million, So thirty seven would have been the high.
<v Speaker 2>Been bigger, yeah, except that once it was time for
<v Speaker 2>actual production, the Cannon Group had put out so many
<v Speaker 2>atrocious movies that they were also out of money, and
<v Speaker 2>they slash the budget from thirty six million to seventeen million,
<v Speaker 2>cut it more than in half. Yeah, at the last minute,
<v Speaker 2>at the last minute.
<v Speaker 3>So the Cannon Group they did breaking They did Break
<v Speaker 3>into Electric Boogloo. Both great movies they did over the top.
<v Speaker 3>I just watched a movie my good friend Jeff Johnson
<v Speaker 3>maybe watched the other day called Invaders from Mars. Oh, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>they did Masters of the Universe. I mean, these guys
<v Speaker 3>wheeled and deal their way into major Hollywood movies.
<v Speaker 2>There were several decently made movies in there, literally hundreds
<v Speaker 2>of movies or a handful that they were a successful with.
<v Speaker 2>But it only takes a handful and then you got
<v Speaker 2>some money to go buy up Superman, right.
<v Speaker 3>I mean in their formula was you know, guns, boobs
<v Speaker 3>and you know, you know, shoot them up stuff, you know.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean they had a pretty good thing to
<v Speaker 5>one with Charles Bronson and Chuck Norris when you think
<v Speaker 5>about it, lots of good I mean quality entertainment. You know,
<v Speaker 5>if you're like you said, if you want the guns
<v Speaker 5>and the boobs and the explosion, you're watching a cannon movie.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So when they get a script, the question was
<v Speaker 2>which Chuck, Yeah, Chuck Norris to give it to Chuck Brownson.
<v Speaker 3>Hey, you know, we could do a whole other episode
<v Speaker 3>just on the fact that they beat Rambo to the
<v Speaker 3>box office by fast tracking the Chuck Norris movies Missing
<v Speaker 3>in Action.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that was that's a great story too, because
<v Speaker 2>they filmed Part one and Part two at the same time,
<v Speaker 2>and then and they watched them and they're like, wow,
<v Speaker 2>part two is way better than Part one, which came
<v Speaker 2>out with good with the bad movie first. So they
<v Speaker 2>literally they released Part two first and then made Part
<v Speaker 2>one a prequel.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's crazy, because isn't it a Missing in Action two?
<v Speaker 5>The beginning is like the title of it.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I thought it was like the Return of Braddock
<v Speaker 3>or something like that.
<v Speaker 5>I think that was ERD.
<v Speaker 4>That's three okay, Raddick one is I don't even remember
<v Speaker 4>Missing an Action, but Missing in Action two. You don't
<v Speaker 4>need any need to see the others. It's just a
<v Speaker 4>good movie itself.
<v Speaker 2>It's a fun movie.
<v Speaker 3>It was on HBO about every third movie all the time.
<v Speaker 5>But again it goes back to their just the hustlers
<v Speaker 5>that these guys were missing in action too. The beginning
<v Speaker 5>comes out, it blows the doors off of everyone's expectations,
<v Speaker 5>and then all of a sudden, you're like, wait, where's
<v Speaker 5>where's the first one? Did I miss it?
<v Speaker 3>Right?
<v Speaker 5>And then they bring that out and you're and you're.
<v Speaker 3>Like, uh huh, I think I just rewatched two.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Have you guys seen Life Force?
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>I love Life Force.
<v Speaker 4>Actually have a copy. Jeff made me buy it. Oh
<v Speaker 4>my god, Jeff gave me a no hurl guarantee. On
<v Speaker 4>the director's cut of Life Force.
<v Speaker 5>I did a screen factory put out a gorgeous, like
<v Speaker 5>two K resolution steel book with a ton of extras.
<v Speaker 5>This was one of those movies Brad and I saw
<v Speaker 5>back when we were seventeen and Friday night we were
<v Speaker 5>hitting Blockbuster and it was just like randomly like, hey,
<v Speaker 5>let's check this out. You know, we had a couple
<v Speaker 5>other uh, there were a couple of girls that we
<v Speaker 5>that we hung out with, and Brad wasn't one of
<v Speaker 5>them that that chose Life Force, and kind of inner
<v Speaker 5>induced us to it, and we're like space.
<v Speaker 4>Would have been, and they probably regretted it. About five
<v Speaker 4>minutes into it is Untilda May is naked. You know,
<v Speaker 4>thirty percent of the.
<v Speaker 3>Movie naked space vampires.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, would you like to have the director's cut exactly?
<v Speaker 4>I think you can say that the Cannon guys kind
<v Speaker 4>of did the exploitation films of the eighties. They knew
<v Speaker 4>the video market. They knew the turnaround to get into
<v Speaker 4>you didn't need a long run in the theater. You
<v Speaker 4>knew that the video markets would pick it up. I mean,
<v Speaker 4>there wasn't just your big video chain. Gas stations were
<v Speaker 4>renting videos. There was a video place everywhere. They knew
<v Speaker 4>their market.
<v Speaker 2>But unfortunately they had no money. When they decided to
<v Speaker 2>make Supermen for right.
<v Speaker 3>They slashed the budget from thirty six to seventeen million dollars.
<v Speaker 2>It's crazy. So the other part that Christopher Reeve demanded,
<v Speaker 2>other than the six million dollars salary and writing power
<v Speaker 2>in the movie, is that they would fund his pet project,
<v Speaker 2>which is called Street Smart. Have you guys seen that
<v Speaker 2>I have?
<v Speaker 5>You're talking without Morgan Freeman.
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, it was like Morgan Freeman's breakout role. I
<v Speaker 2>think he was nominated, mate, did he win the Oscar?
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember. He was at least nominated from him.
<v Speaker 5>He was nominated that if you haven't seen it, it
<v Speaker 5>is definitely worth watching. Really, okay, see seeing these two
<v Speaker 5>guys way out of their element.
<v Speaker 2>You know.
<v Speaker 5>And I don't want to give away a bunch stuff
<v Speaker 5>about the movie, but yeah, I would, just I would.
<v Speaker 5>I would recommend it seeing Christopher Reeve. Anytime you see
<v Speaker 5>Christopher Reeve not playing Clark Kent Superman is always to
<v Speaker 5>me it's fun.
<v Speaker 2>You know.
<v Speaker 5>We talked about death Trap recently and how incredible he
<v Speaker 5>is in that film Street Smart. Same thing, like, you know,
<v Speaker 5>get if you want a totally different take on what
<v Speaker 5>Christopher ee can do, check that one out.
<v Speaker 3>Think about this for a second. Richard Donner does Lethal Weapon.
<v Speaker 3>Chris Reeve is on the short list to play Martin Riggs. Real, wow,
<v Speaker 3>how how different is that series? You know?
<v Speaker 5>I don't even know if I can. I can't even
<v Speaker 5>see it in my head. I really can't.
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's mel Gibson was so awesome in that. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>he is Riggs.
<v Speaker 4>But how different the whole Superman series would have been
<v Speaker 4>If the Salcons wouldn't have fired him off of Superman two,
<v Speaker 4>we could have had three to four Richard Donner Superman
<v Speaker 4>no Lethal Weapon, Maybe.
<v Speaker 5>I would sacrifice a Richard Donner or Superman three and
<v Speaker 5>four in order to get a leath the weapon one
<v Speaker 5>and two.
<v Speaker 2>I'll trade. I'll make that trade me too, good call.
<v Speaker 2>So they get a director. This guy's name Sidney J. Feur.
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't heard of him, because here's why I think
<v Speaker 2>we've maybe even talked about this before. I still haven't
<v Speaker 2>seen Iron Eagle. Oh there you go. Top Gun was
<v Speaker 2>the fighter pilot movie for me of nineteen eighty six,
<v Speaker 2>and that was all I needed. I didn't need to
<v Speaker 2>go see Iron Eagle, but that was his one success,
<v Speaker 2>if you want to call it that. Now, if you
<v Speaker 2>look at IMDb rankings and you like put it on
<v Speaker 2>a grading scale, he's got fifty seven directorial credits. You
<v Speaker 2>are going to be hard pressed to find any that
<v Speaker 2>are better than a failing grade. Like, there's just none
<v Speaker 2>that are above a six point zho hardly at all,
<v Speaker 2>even Iron Eagles at a five point four D.
<v Speaker 5>Can I give it? Can I throw one more of
<v Speaker 5>his credits just to give him a little more, just
<v Speaker 5>just to defend him, if you will. Yeah, I don't
<v Speaker 5>know where it ranks. It might it's probably be at
<v Speaker 5>a six or above. But let's not forget nineteen eighty two.
<v Speaker 5>He gave us the entity with.
<v Speaker 4>Barbara Hershey's and that's to this day, that's still is
<v Speaker 4>one of the scary movies.
<v Speaker 5>I think I've seen.
<v Speaker 3>Resounding success at A six point seven. Hey, right, right,
<v Speaker 3>h Hey. I'll tell you two guys that they offered
<v Speaker 3>the director chair two number one. They offered it to
<v Speaker 3>Richard Lester done part two and part three yep. And
<v Speaker 3>then they also offered it to Wes Craven and also
<v Speaker 3>offered it to Richard Donner. Well, I know, right, Wes
<v Speaker 3>Craven though, hot off of Nightmare in El Street, Hey,
<v Speaker 3>we want to make Superman. That's interesting. And then they
<v Speaker 3>go back to Richard Donner and they say, hey, Man
<v Speaker 3>come back. Yeah, And he actually thought about it and
<v Speaker 3>actually been doing Leath the Weapon, right, he was busy
<v Speaker 3>doing Leath the Weapon. Yeah, Okay, I mean you think
<v Speaker 3>about it Superman one. When you go back and Rewatch,
<v Speaker 3>You're like, man, this is really good. He had that
<v Speaker 3>word that he abided by the very similitude, like we
<v Speaker 3>live in Superman's universe. Everything that happens in this movie
<v Speaker 3>has to be real and it has to be accepted
<v Speaker 3>as factual. In this superhero world we live in, you
<v Speaker 3>don't have the don't walk and walk sign fighting each other.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, yeah, that is one of the That is one
<v Speaker 5>of the ugly marks against Superman three.
<v Speaker 4>Thank you.
<v Speaker 2>I don't disagree with that, Thank you. I don't disagree
<v Speaker 2>with that. Yeah, I roll the weather with the computer.
<v Speaker 3>And play an atari against Superman.
<v Speaker 2>But but to be to be fair, to be fair.
<v Speaker 2>Even in super Man one, you had a bit of
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous reach. Whenever he discovers where the kryptonite is, he
<v Speaker 2>slides the ladder over to a book in his bookcase
<v Speaker 2>and is like, oh, there was a meteor found in
<v Speaker 2>South America. Well let's go down there. It's all of
<v Speaker 2>a sudden he's got kryptonite. I mean, there are holes
<v Speaker 2>that happen even in the best of the Superman movies.
<v Speaker 2>I think it is now time for us to jump
<v Speaker 2>into the massive bag of craft that a Superman for
<v Speaker 2>and talk about what they got wrong.
<v Speaker 3>Should we start with what they get right? Or we
<v Speaker 3>want to go straight?
<v Speaker 2>What's going to be a short list? We can do that.
<v Speaker 5>Do you know what I can do with a single
<v Speaker 5>strand up Superman's here.
<v Speaker 4>If you make it you pay them flies.
<v Speaker 5>It would be a short, very short list for what
<v Speaker 5>they got right.
<v Speaker 2>I will say this, the story idea is one that
<v Speaker 2>could have been good.
<v Speaker 6>Dude, this worldwide nuclear war for your own personal financial gain.
<v Speaker 2>Nobody wants war. I just want to keep the threat lush. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>that you when the idea of having a villain that
<v Speaker 2>has the same powers, which I mean admittedly they had
<v Speaker 2>that in Superman too, but if you've got one that
<v Speaker 2>is controlled by Lex Luthor, his biggest nemesis, that lends
<v Speaker 2>itself to some good possibilities. I don't think you need
<v Speaker 2>the nuclear war stuff. I don't think you.
<v Speaker 3>Wait, we're not talking about bad stuff.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. I got much too
<v Speaker 2>much to say about that. But just story idea wise,
<v Speaker 2>the idea of creating another super creature is actually a
<v Speaker 2>good idea, and it will work. We've seen it work.
<v Speaker 2>The movie is called Mega Mind.
<v Speaker 4>There you go, right, I mean, yeah, I.
<v Speaker 2>Mean Brad's new Father here, but we've all seen that movie, right.
<v Speaker 2>I mean they take the DNA of the departed superhero
<v Speaker 2>and they create what they are thinking is going to
<v Speaker 2>be another superhero but turns out to be a super villain.
<v Speaker 2>They could have totally done that with this movie and
<v Speaker 2>had a great movie. You know, maybe Superman's ready to
<v Speaker 2>retire and so somebody finds a way to duplicate him
<v Speaker 2>and then that guy ends up being evil. That becomes
<v Speaker 2>a good movie that way.
<v Speaker 5>One thing that definitely works for me is his address
<v Speaker 5>to the un I think aside and I'm not talking
<v Speaker 5>like the production of it, because it definitely looks cheap
<v Speaker 5>the way he walks in, but his dialogue there and
<v Speaker 5>Christopher Reeve's performance in that moment I think is one
<v Speaker 5>of the better moments of this movie. It's very heartfelt.
<v Speaker 5>You can tell Superman truly wants to do something for
<v Speaker 5>humanity that we can't do for ourselves. And I love
<v Speaker 5>that moment in the film.
<v Speaker 8>And there will be peace.
<v Speaker 6>There will be peace when the people of the world
<v Speaker 6>want it so badly that their governments will have no
<v Speaker 6>choice but to give it to them. I just wish
<v Speaker 6>you could all see the earth the way that I
<v Speaker 6>see it, because when you really look at it, it's
<v Speaker 6>just one worm.
<v Speaker 2>Just the backstory on that. In order to get Christopher
<v Speaker 2>Reeve to come back as Superman, they had to offer
<v Speaker 2>him an obscene amount of money, which they did, and
<v Speaker 2>then they had to offer him some writing power in
<v Speaker 2>the script and that was his key piece that he
<v Speaker 2>wanted in the script, is that he wanted to address
<v Speaker 2>the nuclear arms conflict that was going on and how
<v Speaker 2>Superman was going to deal with that. And so, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. I think in that moment we
<v Speaker 2>get the Superman of Superman one where he is he's
<v Speaker 2>all about you know, truth, justice in the American way.
<v Speaker 4>Actually, I'm gonna flip your guys's review because I think
<v Speaker 4>the nuclear war thing works better than the Nuclear Man thing.
<v Speaker 4>I think the first half of the film up unto
<v Speaker 4>the like the un speech, is actually not bad. The
<v Speaker 4>actual intent of yeah, what would you do if there
<v Speaker 4>really was a Superman? You probably want to get rid
<v Speaker 4>of all the nuclear warheads, It's like, and there's a
<v Speaker 4>few key scenes where Christopher Reeve is really struggling being
<v Speaker 4>like what do I do?
<v Speaker 3>What do I do?
<v Speaker 4>And when he does that little thing with like when
<v Speaker 4>Lois comes and visits him and he just takes her
<v Speaker 4>off the balcony and flies there, you can just tell
<v Speaker 4>he he has no one to talk to and when
<v Speaker 4>he bad stuff already, this is good stuff, No this
<v Speaker 4>is good stuff. When he tells her that thing of
<v Speaker 4>never put any one thing above the rest, you know
<v Speaker 4>of what Krypton had told you know is leaders of
<v Speaker 4>Krypton had told him to do. I think works up
<v Speaker 4>until the un speech. The movie is not that awful.
<v Speaker 4>I think some of that works. The intent of Superman
<v Speaker 4>for was I think heartfelt, and then it just goes
<v Speaker 4>off the rails.
<v Speaker 2>This is my nephew, Lenny. He worships me, the dude
<v Speaker 2>to steal.
<v Speaker 3>Where are you gonna get it? So you're cool with
<v Speaker 3>right up until the point the Superman becomes like a
<v Speaker 3>maniacal tyrant at that point, Yeah, basically.
<v Speaker 2>For life. Yeah, the storyline of the guy taking over
<v Speaker 2>the paper is straight out of the comic books and
<v Speaker 2>Morgan Edge. He's the Morgan Edge character, which wow, we get.
<v Speaker 2>Of course when we do Superman and Lois, we get
<v Speaker 2>a great version of that. Like you recognize it now right.
<v Speaker 3>Check out our other podcast, the podcast Full of Kryptonite,
<v Speaker 3>where we go through the CW show Superman and lows.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we are not afraid to plug anything. But you've
<v Speaker 2>got that and even the storyline with Jeremy and you know,
<v Speaker 2>Superman should be the one that cures the nuclear weapon
<v Speaker 2>problem that we have. That I think it was a
<v Speaker 2>storyline in the comics as well.
<v Speaker 3>It's just you just said the word Jeremy and shifting
<v Speaker 3>to bad stuff.
<v Speaker 2>I just I'm just saying good, bad, or indifferent. They
<v Speaker 2>were a part of the original comic book. I mean yeah,
<v Speaker 2>they were a part of comic book storylines.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I want to say something. Get this off my chest. Really,
<v Speaker 3>the one thing that works for me is the cast.
<v Speaker 3>You have Christopher Reeveback. You have Gene Hackman, you have
<v Speaker 3>Margo Kidder. You've got maryel Hemingway, who is a babe
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen eighty seven. You have John Cryer, who his
<v Speaker 3>character is kind of stupid, but he's he's a legit
<v Speaker 3>actor and he's done some good stuff since then.
<v Speaker 6>Plenty of my loud mouth nephew gets his energy from
<v Speaker 6>the sun without it, he's like you at night.
<v Speaker 3>So the cast since then, yeah, I mean, you know,
<v Speaker 3>at the time, not so much. Okay. You have Mark Pillow.
<v Speaker 2>Hold up his arms look great.
<v Speaker 3>His did look very good. You have the teacher in
<v Speaker 3>the school is actually the the lady in kindergarten cop
<v Speaker 3>who is getting beat up by her husband that Schwarzenegger
<v Speaker 3>steps in and helps her out with thank you film deabus.
<v Speaker 3>I believe Christopher Reeve, Gene Hackman, Margo Kidder. That just
<v Speaker 3>stopped right there. We're headed in the right direction. We've
<v Speaker 3>got something to build on. We're ready to go.
<v Speaker 2>And then at d Rails.
<v Speaker 3>One more thing about the cast, and I can't remember
<v Speaker 3>the guy's name.
<v Speaker 5>You guys have to help me o this.
<v Speaker 3>The dude who plays Porkins in Star.
<v Speaker 5>Wars, William William Hookins.
<v Speaker 4>Yes, Dirty coppin Batman, Yes, Lieutenant Eckhart at cart Yeah,
<v Speaker 4>think about the future.
<v Speaker 3>Yes.
<v Speaker 4>And if you look to the left or right of him,
<v Speaker 4>the not the guy that's the mad Russian. The other
<v Speaker 4>guy that is Oscar winner Jim Broadband.
<v Speaker 5>I was blown away when I saw this recently.
<v Speaker 4>This movie has two Oscar winning actors in it.
<v Speaker 2>It's impressive that the two. I mean, they're so campy,
<v Speaker 2>those guys. But you've got You've got William s Houtkins.
<v Speaker 3>He's Porkins in Star Wars, he's at Art in Batman.
<v Speaker 5>Let's not forget Major Eaton and Raiders.
<v Speaker 2>Yep, top Man, Top Men Men, Yes, he's Munson and
<v Speaker 2>Flash Gordon right, and to tie the other guy in.
<v Speaker 2>You've got your Oscar winning British actor who's been in
<v Speaker 2>I mean, too many things to mention, let's just say
<v Speaker 2>Harry Potter throw that out there, right.
<v Speaker 3>And you've got William A. Hootkins.
<v Speaker 2>The Russian guy was the doctor who was in Flash
<v Speaker 2>Gordon as well. Which doctor the doctor When they've got
<v Speaker 2>him tied to the table and they're about to like
<v Speaker 2>do whatever the mind meld thing is that they wait.
<v Speaker 4>Not the ball worms, the balls.
<v Speaker 2>You got it? That's him?
<v Speaker 5>Oh wow, Yeah, Okay, hey, I'll just say this, you know,
<v Speaker 5>because it ties to the cast. Also one more, one
<v Speaker 5>more thing that works for this movie and maybe the
<v Speaker 5>heart of the movie because they've been in all the others.
<v Speaker 5>Jackie Cooper and mart McClure playing Harry White, Jimmy Olsen. Yes,
<v Speaker 5>those guys. Their performance in this movie is just as
<v Speaker 5>good as it was in Superman the movie Superman two.
<v Speaker 5>Granted they don't have a whole lot they have to
<v Speaker 5>do for us, but I appreciate their performances.
<v Speaker 2>I can just see Jackie Cooper saying, Okay, I'm gonna
<v Speaker 2>play this part, but I want to be able to
<v Speaker 2>leave right after the beginning of the movie and come
<v Speaker 2>back right before the end. That's all I'm gonna be there.
<v Speaker 4>And the thing is his speech at the end on
<v Speaker 4>how he got the company back. It's actually a pretty
<v Speaker 4>good scene.
<v Speaker 6>You know.
<v Speaker 4>He's like, yes, right, I left, and he's like, I've
<v Speaker 4>done enough stories on corporate takeovers where I've been doing
<v Speaker 4>my research, and I got you. I got my investors
<v Speaker 4>to buy you out. It's not a bad scene.
<v Speaker 3>It was a little bit quick. I was like, wait,
<v Speaker 3>what just happened? Yeah, yeah, planted just a few scenes. Yeah.
<v Speaker 4>I got a little annoyed with Mark McClure in this movie,
<v Speaker 4>actually all of them. Yeah, I'm not a big Superman.
<v Speaker 5>Jimmy Olsen, how you?
<v Speaker 3>Oh what a scoop?
<v Speaker 4>Hey?
<v Speaker 3>He was in one, two, three, Supergirl, and four and
<v Speaker 3>he was also in Justice League.
<v Speaker 2>Oh right, a man of steel if I remember, right? Anything?
<v Speaker 3>Is there anything else good? We can say?
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of anything. I mean, there may be
<v Speaker 2>something that comes up along the way.
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, it might come up. It might come up
<v Speaker 4>along the way.
<v Speaker 2>Craptastic, craptastic and then a little more past. Okay, so
<v Speaker 2>let's begin with the opening scene of the Russians in
<v Speaker 2>space and a random piece of spacecraft just happens to
<v Speaker 2>go and hit one of these guys.
<v Speaker 3>And nails him out of nowhere.
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't kill him, despite the fact that traveling close
<v Speaker 2>to the speeded light and good news, Superman just happens
<v Speaker 2>to be flying in space at that moment, and we
<v Speaker 2>get this scene where we're looking at Superman coming at
<v Speaker 2>the camera. If you will pay attention when you watch
<v Speaker 2>this movie, you get the identical cut in every single
<v Speaker 2>moment that we see Superman flying. They give us the
<v Speaker 2>exact I mean, like he cape flies the same way.
<v Speaker 2>And if I'll just throw it out there, you're gonna
<v Speaker 2>remember the part where he's flying through the subway. M h.
<v Speaker 2>It's the same scene, Like he does the exact same
<v Speaker 2>back in fourth I mean, I just thought, could you
<v Speaker 2>not have filmed two takes and maybe just switched it
<v Speaker 2>up a little bit. I think there's probably seven or
<v Speaker 2>eight different times that you see the exact same Superman
<v Speaker 2>flying at the camera.
<v Speaker 5>And poorly done too. It's it's almost like rotoscoped.
<v Speaker 3>I don't believe a man can fly, No.
<v Speaker 5>I believe a man can cut and paste an image,
<v Speaker 5>is what.
<v Speaker 4>I maybe thinking that Alfonso Koran was watching the beginning
<v Speaker 4>of this movie was like, I'm gonna make a whole
<v Speaker 4>movie about this. So maybe we got gravity because of
<v Speaker 4>the beginning of Superman for but probably not. What doesn't
<v Speaker 4>work a nuclear Man destroy Superman. First, I have fun Man,
<v Speaker 4>nuclear Man, nuclear Man, that scream, and then he gets this,
<v Speaker 4>like later on in the film, he gets this after scream.
<v Speaker 4>This like this extra like almost like raptor scream. Scream
<v Speaker 4>was driving me crazy. It just it went from I
<v Speaker 4>feel like a political kind of drama type of thing
<v Speaker 4>that you maybe you would see in like an episode
<v Speaker 4>of Smallville too, just a we don't know, just keep going,
<v Speaker 4>just finish the movie somehow, and and I feel like
<v Speaker 4>that's what they did. Even the battle sequences, they're barely moving.
<v Speaker 4>He gives me that weak punch in the back and like, yeah,
<v Speaker 4>even in Superman two, so I mean, let's see Superman
<v Speaker 4>two was what nineteen eighty eighty one. Even the fight seques,
<v Speaker 4>but these ones.
<v Speaker 3>Were so bad.
<v Speaker 4>I felt like there were like two teenagers that have
<v Speaker 4>never fought before being like, Oh, come on, I'm gonna
<v Speaker 4>hit you.
<v Speaker 3>You hit me?
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, no, I'm gonna hit you. It was very
<v Speaker 4>weak as far as the fighting stuff, and everything is
<v Speaker 4>slow mode. They were going so slow. The subway crash
<v Speaker 4>or the subway thing there is, yeah, there's that shot,
<v Speaker 4>that repeating shot. There is never a scene where he
<v Speaker 4>is touching the subway. They cut it to where he's
<v Speaker 4>just like, I'm gonna stop it, and then the thing
<v Speaker 4>stops and then he has to say, oh, just let
<v Speaker 4>everyone know. Even though the sky passed out and almost
<v Speaker 4>killed all of you, it is still the safest way
<v Speaker 4>to head, you know, transportation, like, no, it's not. It
<v Speaker 4>is not if your drivers are passing out.
<v Speaker 2>They were trying to go for the first showing of
<v Speaker 2>Superman and Superman one whenever he rescues her from the
<v Speaker 2>helicopter crash and still flying, it's the safest form of travel,
<v Speaker 2>and they were going for that, and they missed it
<v Speaker 2>so badly. But you've made a great point is that
<v Speaker 2>they obviously they'd cut their budget in half. Special effects
<v Speaker 2>are obviously significantly gone. But I think this is the
<v Speaker 2>key kind of conundrum for me on these two movies
<v Speaker 2>is that in Superman four, it's terrible because they don't
<v Speaker 2>show you any special effects.
<v Speaker 3>And in Jaws, the revenge. It's terrible because they show
<v Speaker 3>you some really awful special effects, so you can go
<v Speaker 3>too far in either direction. You got to show us
<v Speaker 3>a little bit. I mean, at the very least show
<v Speaker 3>me his hand touching the front of the subway. Just
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it doesn't even have to be fast, you know,
<v Speaker 3>just speed up the camera or whatever you like. But
<v Speaker 3>but nothing, you show me nothing at all. That's just
<v Speaker 3>bad editing. But was there just in case?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if this is too soon, But I
<v Speaker 4>didn't know that Marriel Hemingway could breathe in space.
<v Speaker 3>Well there, Okay, you're making my list of most ludicrous
<v Speaker 3>moments right there.
<v Speaker 4>I didn't want to forget about it. But and the
<v Speaker 4>thing is, I knew it was coming. I knew it
<v Speaker 4>was coming, and I was trying to talk myself into it, saying,
<v Speaker 4>maybe it's not as bad as you remember. Maybe they're
<v Speaker 4>just really high up in the air and it's dark
<v Speaker 4>outside and they're not really in space. And it got
<v Speaker 4>that way till she looks down and the Earth is
<v Speaker 4>like tiny, like so far, and she was just like,
<v Speaker 4>oh no, the Earth is all the way down there,
<v Speaker 4>and I'm like, how did this get past anybody who
<v Speaker 4>saw this part and said we should keep this in
<v Speaker 4>the film, because this was There was a two hour
<v Speaker 4>version of this film, and they cut out a half hour,
<v Speaker 4>but they said, no, I'm sticking to my guns. We're
<v Speaker 4>keeping the scene where Merrill Hemingway can breathe in space.
<v Speaker 2>Breathing space, and then Bradley still affects her even she's
<v Speaker 2>one hundred of miles above the stort or.
<v Speaker 3>You know the fact that it might be freezing cold
<v Speaker 3>up there.
<v Speaker 2>I mean before obviously that happens. We have a reintroduction
<v Speaker 2>of another thing from the earlier Superman Superman two, the
<v Speaker 2>super Kiss Clark.
<v Speaker 7>You've gotta go with your gut.
<v Speaker 2>Superman's frustrated because Little Jeremy has called him out for
<v Speaker 2>not doing anything about nuclear war. They print in their
<v Speaker 2>tabloid new tabloid version of The Daily Planet that Superman says,
<v Speaker 2>drop dead.
<v Speaker 6>Kid.
<v Speaker 2>Wait, that is a throwback of a real historical event,
<v Speaker 2>Gerald Ford in the seventies. The state of New York
<v Speaker 2>was asking for help and for a federal aid, and
<v Speaker 2>jeroff Ford said no, And the paper said New York
<v Speaker 2>City can drop dead was how they phrased it. So
<v Speaker 2>he's got this internal struggle going on and dealing with that,
<v Speaker 2>and so to help him through that situation, he decides
<v Speaker 2>to show Lewis Lane who he really is again, and
<v Speaker 2>then he takes her on an around the world flying
<v Speaker 2>journey where she's absolutely terrified but can also fly a
<v Speaker 2>little bit herself. There's one point I took a picture
<v Speaker 2>and I shared it with Jason. I may have shared
<v Speaker 2>it with you too, Jeffy. Yep, when he throws her
<v Speaker 2>like she's still kind of flying but obviously freaked out.
<v Speaker 2>This is again right out of Mega mind, right. I
<v Speaker 2>can see the guys in Mega mind going, oh, we
<v Speaker 2>got to have a part where he like throws her
<v Speaker 2>and lets her fall so he can save her and
<v Speaker 2>be the ero. So but there's that point and as
<v Speaker 2>he's catching her, you can see his foot go down
<v Speaker 2>in front of her and stand on invisible air.
<v Speaker 4>I think I was just thinking, I'm like, man, Superman's
<v Speaker 4>got a six months. They hear me. He's like, hey,
<v Speaker 4>there you go, and he just lets her go because
<v Speaker 4>she starts to go down. She's still flying, but she's
<v Speaker 4>going down. I'm like that is terrifying, you know, and
<v Speaker 4>it's like, you go, I'll.
<v Speaker 3>Tell you my fourteen year older like, oh gosh, this
<v Speaker 3>will scare the crap out of her.
<v Speaker 5>I'll tell you what's terrifying is I now have to
<v Speaker 5>question how often does Superman do this to Loisy? You know,
<v Speaker 5>because he's probably saving a fortune in therapy, you know,
<v Speaker 5>because anytime he's got something bugging him, he just goes
<v Speaker 5>and lays one on Lois and Hey, I'm Superman and
<v Speaker 5>here's here's what's happening. And why does he have to
<v Speaker 5>reveal the secret Doe? I? I don't you know, couldn't
<v Speaker 5>Superman just fly down to Lewis's apartment and say, Hey,
<v Speaker 5>I'm having some trouble.
<v Speaker 3>What do you think? Can we talk about the escape
<v Speaker 3>from jail for Lex? Yeah, that's the most ridiculous jail
<v Speaker 3>break in movie history. Somebody pulls up and says, listen,
<v Speaker 3>check out my stereo. Right, Lenny's car is absurd.
<v Speaker 4>What's more absurd Lenny's car or Lex Luther's nineteen twenties
<v Speaker 4>bomber outfit towards the end of the film and thinking
<v Speaker 4>we're gonna lay low for a while and they're in
<v Speaker 4>like a ridiculously glad car and he's dressed like, how
<v Speaker 4>are you gonna lay load dressed like that.
<v Speaker 3>He looks like Snoopy dressed as the red bearing.
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, look here's what I'll go ahead and ask the question.
<v Speaker 5>Because Lex is clearly on the work farm that John
<v Speaker 5>Rambo is on exactly busting rock without doubt. How do
<v Speaker 5>you just roll up past security and your outlandish the
<v Speaker 5>lineamobile as I call it, his name's all over it.
<v Speaker 3>How do you just roll up?
<v Speaker 5>And then and the cops are like, hey, check this out.
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely we can climb and they draw on their guns.
<v Speaker 2>And so once once again you have a special effect
<v Speaker 2>that should be there that's not there, and then this
<v Speaker 2>one is there. It's guilty on both because it shows
<v Speaker 2>you the special effect which it should never have shown you.
<v Speaker 2>So they he remote controls of the car. It goes
<v Speaker 2>flying off of the cliff. When you see it fly
<v Speaker 2>off the cliff, you can see the bottom of the
<v Speaker 2>hot wheels car. Yeah, it is a black flat matt
<v Speaker 2>bottomed the car, which is just absurd.
<v Speaker 3>And then you should see an explosion.
<v Speaker 2>Right now you don't, and just much funny high high
<v Speaker 2>off of the cliff and there is fire at least
<v Speaker 2>coming out. They just crawl over the edge unscathed. I
<v Speaker 2>think that they should have been the super villains because
<v Speaker 2>they have obvious superpowers.
<v Speaker 5>The super villain here is the second unit director who
<v Speaker 5>took seventeen million dollars and told his kid, take that
<v Speaker 5>hot wheel, throw it in the sky, that he's going
<v Speaker 5>to just film it.
<v Speaker 3>It's awful. When I watched those guys climb out basically unscathed.
<v Speaker 3>I think about the very similitude of Richard Donner. This
<v Speaker 3>is how far we've fallen. That scene alone is so bad.
<v Speaker 3>It's just it's just unacceptable.
<v Speaker 2>And then we have what I still think is like
<v Speaker 2>the good idea of taking Superman's DNA to make another
<v Speaker 2>Did you guys know that they're supposed to be two
<v Speaker 2>nuclear men like the film?
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I read that. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>The first guy that was supposed to be a yeah,
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be more of a Bizarro kind of character
<v Speaker 2>who worked even less well then the second one, which
<v Speaker 2>is hard to imagine. But anyway, you've got the good
<v Speaker 2>idea of let's take a strand of Superman's hair. I
<v Speaker 2>even like the idea that they have the hair in
<v Speaker 2>the Superman Museum so that you get the idea of
<v Speaker 2>how strong it is. But then but.
<v Speaker 3>Then ls Luther walks right up and just like clips
<v Speaker 3>it takes it.
<v Speaker 2>He daytime going on with these wire cutters that he
<v Speaker 2>bought at home depot. Superman's hair is not going to
<v Speaker 2>be cut with wire cutters. It's crazy.
<v Speaker 3>Do you see the thousand pounds weight cut it? But
<v Speaker 3>he just snip snips and takes it away. And then
<v Speaker 3>we see him in the lab making some sort of
<v Speaker 3>go and then somehow all it takes is to sneak
<v Speaker 3>into a nuclear launching pad. Is that you just got
<v Speaker 3>to step in line and wear a uniform yep. Yeah.
<v Speaker 4>And there that little concoction that he puts in there,
<v Speaker 4>which almost is like a baby chicken or what looks
<v Speaker 4>like the ginger that comes on there your with like sushi.
<v Speaker 2>What is that thing? It's just it just.
<v Speaker 4>Oh man, can we talk about Nuclear Man go for
<v Speaker 4>the ridiculousness of him.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>So the spawn of Nuclear Man is that the missile,
<v Speaker 2>like the all the other missiles that Superman has thrown
<v Speaker 2>into the sun with his giant net. Wherever that might
<v Speaker 2>have come from.
<v Speaker 3>He got it from the same place they Yeah, so
<v Speaker 3>Lex Luthor knows that Superman's throwing all the nukes they're
<v Speaker 3>shooting up into the sky, into the sun.
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure why the military is still shooting these
<v Speaker 2>things up, but he knows it's happening. And so the
<v Speaker 2>key catalyst for the Superman while Sabbi ginger sauce that
<v Speaker 2>he's made, is that it has to be thrown into
<v Speaker 2>the sun. And so I'll just send it to Superman
<v Speaker 2>and he'll do my dirty work for me. And then
<v Speaker 2>when the thing goes into the sun, a fetus comes out.
<v Speaker 6>A car.
<v Speaker 2>I can't go on from there.
<v Speaker 4>I just it's so funny that you said that, because
<v Speaker 4>as it was watching this last night, I was watching
<v Speaker 4>it on HBO Max and my internet slowed down and
<v Speaker 4>the movie pauses right at the fetus last night for
<v Speaker 4>what felt like thirty seconds or a minute, and I'm like,
<v Speaker 4>am I gonna.
<v Speaker 2>Have to this?
<v Speaker 4>It's just stuck on my screen, this fetus. So it
<v Speaker 4>was just like finally it kicked back on, but I'm like,
<v Speaker 4>I'm just sitting there staring at the fetus. Felt like
<v Speaker 4>an eternity.
<v Speaker 3>Your WiFi was going what in there?
<v Speaker 4>It was, It's like I think my WiFi was like
<v Speaker 4>why are you watching this?
<v Speaker 3>Why are you wasting?
<v Speaker 2>Why are you wasting.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that brings up thank you guys for making the
<v Speaker 3>sacrifice to watch these two movies. I went for it.
<v Speaker 4>I went. I watched Jaws three, Jaws four, Superman three,
<v Speaker 4>Superman four. I've had so much junk of movie watching
<v Speaker 4>in the last couple of nights.
<v Speaker 2>So let me I get a question. This is personal
<v Speaker 2>question for you. Were you holding your newborn son during
<v Speaker 2>any of these watching.
<v Speaker 4>Some of them?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, some of them?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, actually yes, you may need to expose him to
<v Speaker 2>a lot more good stuff. So that stuff.
<v Speaker 4>I was explaining it to him. I was like, this
<v Speaker 4>is there's a purpose in all this, son, I promise
<v Speaker 4>you I will explain later.
<v Speaker 3>Hey, you know what we we glazed over. We talked,
<v Speaker 3>we brought it up, but we just kind of glazed
<v Speaker 3>it over. But nuclear Jeremy standing up in front of
<v Speaker 3>his class, I'll tell you what work. We gotta get
<v Speaker 3>Superman to get the nukes.
<v Speaker 8>I tell you I'd write a letter too, that would
<v Speaker 8>do some good.
<v Speaker 3>Santa Claus, no Superman.
<v Speaker 4>I was like, shut the up, Jeremy, you're saying Jeremy
<v Speaker 4>spoke in class. Basically, Pearl Jam's Jeremy is actually about Superman.
<v Speaker 4>For the quest for peace.
<v Speaker 3>I am dead now. Oh god, hilarious. I want somebody
<v Speaker 3>to make that video I met Jeremy will be I
<v Speaker 3>will play it in this right. Oh gosh.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Let's talk about Jeremy for a second, because even
<v Speaker 5>if you couldn't get a better actor, because that kid's awful.
<v Speaker 5>Just his delivery. First off, he's looking out the window,
<v Speaker 5>he's not paying attention. He kind of gives some attitude
<v Speaker 5>to the teacher, and every time you see him, he's
<v Speaker 5>just like, yeah, Superman. There is not one likable thing
<v Speaker 5>about this kid, not one.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree, And they're watching the news in social
<v Speaker 3>studies class or what I mean, what's going on there?
<v Speaker 3>Such cheap, yeah, question, so cheap. Jeremy needed to be
<v Speaker 3>sent to attention immediately and then swats you know?
<v Speaker 2>So so nuclear man is a fetus and then a
<v Speaker 2>man and then a completely clothed man somehow.
<v Speaker 3>By the way, I'd love to give you a hard
<v Speaker 3>time about you keep saying nuclear but they but Gene
<v Speaker 3>Hackman does it the entire movie too.
<v Speaker 2>He does.
<v Speaker 5>If Hackman can do it, that's exactly I got the pronunciation.
<v Speaker 2>You know what the sun is, it's nothing more than
<v Speaker 2>a huge nuclear bomb.
<v Speaker 5>Quoting Jae's four, Brad just says, my gear crept out rebooting. Now, hey,
<v Speaker 5>hey my gear old crap. I pay Spectrum top dollars,
<v Speaker 5>so I'm always on. That's gold Man. Oh good lord,
<v Speaker 5>you guys are bringing the game today.
<v Speaker 2>I think you need to leave that in.
<v Speaker 4>See, as soon as I started talking about the Internet
<v Speaker 4>screwed up, it's actually been fat hopefully it does. It
<v Speaker 4>hurt me talking about and it said, yeah, that's right.
<v Speaker 4>You watch that bad movie last week.
<v Speaker 2>We thought that Brad had been eaten by a shark
<v Speaker 2>and taking down to the bottom of the ocean. It
<v Speaker 2>turns back.
<v Speaker 3>He's He's okay, he is alive and no problems.
<v Speaker 5>The breath on that thing.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so nuclear Man not only spawns in three seconds
<v Speaker 2>from his fetus, he spawns fully clothed with costume and
<v Speaker 2>with some really messed up fingernails. What is that about? Why?
<v Speaker 5>Okay, So, when him and Lenny are doing this mister
<v Speaker 5>Wizard thing with their their beakers and the bubbling stuff,
<v Speaker 5>Luther takes a scrap of of like a garment and
<v Speaker 5>he's going to add that to the mix with the DNA.
<v Speaker 5>And because Lenny, I remember Lenny's like, uh, that's not
<v Speaker 5>enough to clothe him, and Gene Hackman's explanation that I
<v Speaker 5>don't even remember what it is because it's just so
<v Speaker 5>stupefying him with him. Yeah, he's like, oh, that's right.
<v Speaker 5>The computer inside will do something for us. I'm like,
<v Speaker 5>the computer and the fabric, the computer? What computer? Because
<v Speaker 5>are we talking nanotechnology? Because I don't get it.
<v Speaker 2>Hey, I missed that line completely. I must have completely
<v Speaker 2>toned out. I think I got hungry for Chinese.
<v Speaker 5>But well, speaking speaking of getting hungry, I'll tell you
<v Speaker 5>right now, and I know I don't mean to jump
<v Speaker 5>back to the again, but talk about taking a good
<v Speaker 5>idea and totally ruining it. The opening title sequence with
<v Speaker 5>the names flying in. I love that in Superman. I
<v Speaker 5>love it in Superman two. Did you guys notice how
<v Speaker 5>I'll tell you right now. If you blink you missed
<v Speaker 5>four names. If you got up to go to the
<v Speaker 5>get your Chinese food or the bathroom, that seems over,
<v Speaker 5>I mean they fly by. I don't know if that's
<v Speaker 5>just people going. I know people have to I know
<v Speaker 5>my name has to be on this, but I don't
<v Speaker 5>want people to see it. If you could just speed
<v Speaker 5>the camera, you know, times ten.
<v Speaker 3>The opening credits, they're they're terrible, awful, maybe the last
<v Speaker 3>thing added or something like that. You know, they we
<v Speaker 3>still had twelve dollars. Okay, give me the best you got, you.
<v Speaker 5>Know, yeah, d Why does Nuclear Man have saber tooth
<v Speaker 5>foring youernails?
<v Speaker 2>Well, the answer is because it's a plot point that
<v Speaker 2>they could have to use later later on.
<v Speaker 3>Is it Is it really a plot point?
<v Speaker 2>It absolutely is.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, so he scratches him one time and makes
<v Speaker 3>him sick.
<v Speaker 2>I know, but I mean that you won't know that
<v Speaker 2>that's what's going on unless you see those absurdly long fingernails, right,
<v Speaker 2>and so yes, that brings us to Brad's point earlier
<v Speaker 2>that this was literally the worst fight choreography in the
<v Speaker 2>history of fights. They look like they were trying to
<v Speaker 2>hug each other and then smack each other with their palms.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it was.
<v Speaker 2>It was terrible. Let's not forget that Nuclear Man somehow
<v Speaker 2>knows to come to Lex Luthor's place. That must be
<v Speaker 2>part of that nanotechnology you're talking about. And then what
<v Speaker 2>is his weakness. It's the shade he melts like the
<v Speaker 2>witch off of Wizard of Oz as soon as he
<v Speaker 2>walks into the shade. I mean it's not even like
<v Speaker 2>completely closed off. It's like you're not directly in the sunlight.
<v Speaker 2>All your battery power is immediately eliminated and you crumple
<v Speaker 2>like a bag of class. Yeah.
<v Speaker 4>Sure, and the fact that you know, Lex Luthor, supposed
<v Speaker 4>to be the greatest criminal mind of all time, didn't
<v Speaker 4>think that soon Superman might figure this little tidbit out.
<v Speaker 4>That's a pretty big vulnerability.
<v Speaker 2>I could beat this guy.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yourself in a basement.
<v Speaker 2>I can beat this guy.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, lock yourself in a basement. He's never gonna get in.
<v Speaker 3>That's it.
<v Speaker 5>Wait, wait till nine o'clock at night, we all beat him.
<v Speaker 3>Hey, well, on that point, Superman actually does the like
<v Speaker 3>the world's greatest defeat of nuclear Man. I'm going to
<v Speaker 3>take him to the dark side of the moon. He'll
<v Speaker 3>be permanently in the shade. Nobody can ever get to him.
<v Speaker 3>It's totally fine, he can stay there forever. We're all good.
<v Speaker 3>Everybody got to take care. Oh wait, the sun rises.
<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, I literally when that part happened on that's
<v Speaker 2>an actual smart move. You're taking him to a spot
<v Speaker 2>where literally the sun never shines right, literally never shines.
<v Speaker 2>Next scene, the sun is coming up on the moon.
<v Speaker 5>You're already up there. Why not, you know, you give
<v Speaker 5>that big a toss of all the nuclear weapons. Why
<v Speaker 5>not just toss him into like another galaxy. We know
<v Speaker 5>there's other galaxies because he tells the un there's other galaxies.
<v Speaker 5>You're tell me that you couldn't just send him to
<v Speaker 5>some void area of space where there is no sun.
<v Speaker 3>He shouldn't have to. He's on the dark side of
<v Speaker 3>the moon.
<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm sure one of your guys's favorite scenes and
<v Speaker 4>definitely necessary for a movie that had to be cut
<v Speaker 4>down by thirty minutes, was the double date scene that
<v Speaker 4>we for some reason needed just for giggles, I guess,
<v Speaker 4>But just what a waste of time.
<v Speaker 2>I have pointed out on multiple occasions in this podcast
<v Speaker 2>that a movie has to have some comedy in, it
<v Speaker 2>has to be funny. Yes, But at that particular scene,
<v Speaker 2>I started looking at the Wikipedia page for Superman four
<v Speaker 2>and then going and getting some Chinese food, Like I
<v Speaker 2>was like, Okay, this is useless, so I'm gonna go
<v Speaker 2>do something else right now. This was I mean, it
<v Speaker 2>was so bad, It was so not funny in an
<v Speaker 2>horrible attempt to be funny, and it was just boring.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, all it needed was a laugh track, and it
<v Speaker 5>would have played perfectly as any sitcom from the nineteen eighties.
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, that's how I look at it.
<v Speaker 3>John Ritter as Superman.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, perfect, right, there you go.
<v Speaker 2>By the way, the TV show, they do absolutely no
<v Speaker 2>explanation as to why Superman and Clark Kent are doing
<v Speaker 2>a double date together, why they would ever agree to that.
<v Speaker 6>That.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hey, that's one of the twenty five percent of
<v Speaker 2>the movie that they cut out. Just introed right into it,
<v Speaker 2>well we've got a double date. It's with Clark and Superman.
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, okay, here's the thing.
<v Speaker 3>Superman could take both those girls and say, look, hey guys, listen,
<v Speaker 3>I can't really do this.
<v Speaker 2>This is dumb.
<v Speaker 3>I'm Superman. And they'd be like what and he gets
<v Speaker 3>super kissed both of them, and you know why, Sure,
<v Speaker 3>the problems very true even with that.
<v Speaker 2>I just I remember this, She says, I've known the
<v Speaker 2>whole time. When he's talking to her, and she's, you know, hinting.
<v Speaker 2>Lois Lane is hinting that she knows who he is,
<v Speaker 2>and he's like, have you do you know you do
<v Speaker 2>you remember, like the super kiss didn't work, And she's like,
<v Speaker 2>I've note the whole time. I'm like so confused work yeah.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, oh you don't even know my name.
<v Speaker 4>Hell yeah, remember Superman too, I know everything. You lost
<v Speaker 4>your powers.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he didn't kiss enough. Apparently it needs to grab
<v Speaker 3>her butt too, you know.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, second base is the memory.
<v Speaker 3>That's where they you know, you don't want to put
<v Speaker 3>her in the hospital, you know, like odomizer or whatever.
<v Speaker 5>But again, abuse of power, and let's talk let's get briefly,
<v Speaker 5>let's talk about powers, because I understand you have to
<v Speaker 5>sometimes do something in a movie that they that's not
<v Speaker 5>canon to the comic book. It's not cannon to the character.
<v Speaker 5>The memory wiping kiss being a great example.
<v Speaker 3>The ramat Bess keep going.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, so he has X ray vision, he has heat vision,
<v Speaker 5>and in this movie he has rebuild the Great Wall
<v Speaker 5>of China. Nuclear Man destroys the Great Wall of China.
<v Speaker 5>Superman looks at it hard and it puts itself back together.
<v Speaker 5>That's not how it goes.
<v Speaker 4>Also, he can make things disappear too, Yeah, and makes
<v Speaker 4>his ship disappeared, but just like looks at it and
<v Speaker 4>it just disappears.
<v Speaker 5>Give me just draw two red lines coming out of
<v Speaker 5>his eyes, so I know he melted it. He destroyed it, right,
<v Speaker 5>Brad's right, disappearing vision.
<v Speaker 4>I feel like he has one more magic trick that
<v Speaker 4>we're forgetting.
<v Speaker 2>It's the hitting the baseball into space.
<v Speaker 4>No, that's just super strength.
<v Speaker 3>But I feel like he has one more but the
<v Speaker 3>baseball and would.
<v Speaker 2>Have been destroyed.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that thing would have been a thousand toothpicks in
<v Speaker 5>his hand.
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yes, no, that's that's absurd. But the other is
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he's got that green stick. He's had it
<v Speaker 2>from the whole time. He gets the super scratch, he
<v Speaker 2>turns into the supercrypt keeper with the gray hair, and
<v Speaker 2>that's so all of a sudden he's like, oh yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I've got the green stick. And he holds the green
<v Speaker 2>stick and cut two. He's completely noise and a good
<v Speaker 2>news because it was right at the time that the
<v Speaker 2>nuclear man. The nuclear man looks at the paper and
<v Speaker 2>decides he wants to have mural Hemingway as his own.
<v Speaker 2>Where is the woman?
<v Speaker 6>Give it up?
<v Speaker 2>He'll never find it. If you will not tell me,
<v Speaker 2>I will hurt a Paul.
<v Speaker 5>Don't do it.
<v Speaker 4>The paper and how does he know that he knows
<v Speaker 4>right right away is never going to get to her.
<v Speaker 4>How do you know that nuclear man was just looking
<v Speaker 4>at the paper and he's like her, that's the one
<v Speaker 4>that I want. He just knows you're never gonna find her.
<v Speaker 4>When was there a scene where you two were discussing,
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna go after this girl.
<v Speaker 3>He's like, bring me the woman. He's like, uh, her
<v Speaker 3>a you you've got him.
<v Speaker 2>At that moment, just before that moment that he's the
<v Speaker 2>nuclear man is standing in the street and with his
<v Speaker 2>you know, the force, uses the force and crush the taxi.
<v Speaker 2>And I took a picture of this and I was
<v Speaker 2>going to send it and I forgot and then Jason
<v Speaker 2>sent the same picture that somebody else had taken. You
<v Speaker 2>don't see the wires when the car gets crushed, but
<v Speaker 2>then when they zoom into it after it's already been crushed,
<v Speaker 2>then you can see the wires. I'm like, all you
<v Speaker 2>had to do is say, dude, go take those off.
<v Speaker 2>We don't need them anymore, we don't need them in
<v Speaker 2>this shot, and yet there they are.
<v Speaker 3>When you told me that you could see wires in
<v Speaker 3>this movie, I'm like, I don't really pay attention to
<v Speaker 3>the details of it. No, they are so blatant. I
<v Speaker 3>couldn't believe it. You can see the wrinkles and the
<v Speaker 3>curtain in the backdrop when they're on the moon.
<v Speaker 4>And the thing is, if you would have told me, oh, yeah,
<v Speaker 4>you see a few wires in like the seventy eight
<v Speaker 4>version or sometime, it was like, come on, technology is
<v Speaker 4>progressing throughout the years, but the effects get worse, obviously
<v Speaker 4>because of money, but still it's just oh man.
<v Speaker 3>When Nuclear Man is even going up Florida, Florida floor,
<v Speaker 3>you can see the wires from Florida ceiling. He's righting
<v Speaker 3>those wires right up.
<v Speaker 2>The talk after this movie was the Superman that Christopher
<v Speaker 2>Reeve had gotten heavier. It wasn't that he had gotten heavier,
<v Speaker 2>it's that they had the belt around him, and because
<v Speaker 2>it was a low budget, cannon made movie, the belt
<v Speaker 2>made him look probably ten pounds heavier than he really was.
<v Speaker 5>His harness. He's not Superman anymore. He's SpongeBob SquarePants. His physique, he.
<v Speaker 4>Lost a lot of stuff of his physique.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, that's not and that's not fair to Christopher Reeve.
<v Speaker 5>It's just it's how they had him hooked up in
<v Speaker 5>the harness, right. He looked he looked like he was
<v Speaker 5>out of shape.
<v Speaker 3>We have forgotten one of the other major sins committed
<v Speaker 3>by Superman in this movie, the fact that he moved
<v Speaker 3>the moon to block out the Sun in order to
<v Speaker 3>defeat Nuclear Man. And what's that going to do to
<v Speaker 3>the tides and all that stuff. Well, but here's the thing.
<v Speaker 2>If you fly around the Earth and make the Earth
<v Speaker 2>go backward, that's true. It will not reverse time. It
<v Speaker 2>will send Earth flying out into the galaxy. It will.
<v Speaker 2>But the difference is I have bought in by the
<v Speaker 2>time we reached that point in Superman one. This movie, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>it's just another cherry on top of the who Sunday
<v Speaker 2>that we got.
<v Speaker 4>And I think that they said, myself, will what worked
<v Speaker 4>in Superman two. There's a fight on the moon in
<v Speaker 4>Superman two. Yep, so they'll throw that in. There's a
<v Speaker 4>fight in Metropolis going through a few buildings, and there's
<v Speaker 4>of course, don't do it the people that they just
<v Speaker 4>said recreate some of those scenes. True, not very well,
<v Speaker 4>but scene on the moon, seene in Metropolis of fighting,
<v Speaker 4>and I yeah, I just felt like they were being like, oh,
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it worked once, Let's try it again.
<v Speaker 5>My problem with the moon move is he takes three
<v Speaker 5>years to arrive in his rocket ship from Kryptony and
<v Speaker 5>he clearly you can clearly hear Jarrell instructed him on
<v Speaker 5>Einstein's theory of relativity. You know better, don't move the moon.
<v Speaker 5>Just yeah, everything's destroyed if he does this. And I
<v Speaker 5>hate that. I hate that I'm old enough to pick
<v Speaker 5>at it like that because as a kid, I probably
<v Speaker 5>would have been like, oh, yeah, just move the moon,
<v Speaker 5>you'll beat him. But does it play for me now?
<v Speaker 5>And it never will play?
<v Speaker 4>Yes, it was. Guess My question is is what did
<v Speaker 4>the cast and crew think of this film after it
<v Speaker 4>was done.
<v Speaker 5>I know Christopher Reeve think or what he thought, because
<v Speaker 5>even in his book he I think there's one sense
<v Speaker 5>he's like, the less we say about Superman four, the better,
<v Speaker 5>and that's in his that's in his autobiography.
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, but you know what, So like, I heard
<v Speaker 3>John Cryer talking about this and we're kind of moving
<v Speaker 3>towards wrap up. But John Cryer said when they released this,
<v Speaker 3>it's not a complete movie, and he's right. There should
<v Speaker 3>have been better effects, you know, things that make the
<v Speaker 3>story more cohesive that you know, maybe he wasn't involved
<v Speaker 3>in it, so they just put out kind of an
<v Speaker 3>incomplete project.
<v Speaker 2>And he's right asked this, Do you guys think they
<v Speaker 2>could re edit the footage that we have from this movie?
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that they could re edit it and
<v Speaker 2>make it a good movie?
<v Speaker 3>They could make it as good as Superman too, Okay,
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.
<v Speaker 4>I mean the first half maybe. I think if it
<v Speaker 4>would have turned into because they started very realistic with
<v Speaker 4>the film of like, all right, let's do some real
<v Speaker 4>world stuff and throw it in the Superman universe. And
<v Speaker 4>if you actually did that, of saying we're going to
<v Speaker 4>rid the world of nuclear weapons, so many countries would
<v Speaker 4>have a major issue with that, and I think that
<v Speaker 4>included the US. Yeah, playing with that a little bit
<v Speaker 4>of the conspiracy and world leaders kind of maybe joining
<v Speaker 4>with Lex a little bit more besides just the three.
<v Speaker 4>It would have made it a little bit more interesting
<v Speaker 4>in somewhat way. But yeah, it just I don't know
<v Speaker 4>if you could edit it to make it better.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.
<v Speaker 5>I think you if you clean up the effects, maybe
<v Speaker 5>give nuclear Man, not Jeene Hatman's voice, give him anyone's voice.
<v Speaker 2>I don't care.
<v Speaker 4>Make him a mute. Make him a mute.
<v Speaker 5>I think if you did enough work, it would probably
<v Speaker 5>be as good as three. That's where I would leave it.
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to mention this, guys. At the end of
<v Speaker 3>Superman Quest for Peace, you have a shot of Superman
<v Speaker 3>sort of like back in the neighborhood. Guys, how you
<v Speaker 3>doing good to see everybody? That was plucked straight out
<v Speaker 3>of Superman one? Yeah, which it looks great, right, Well,
<v Speaker 3>the reason it looks great is because it's from Superman one.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's the same clip from all four films.
<v Speaker 3>I think its whole.
<v Speaker 5>They do a fourth that that break the fourth wall,
<v Speaker 5>smile at the audience.
<v Speaker 3>Everything was good. Well, Jaws the Revenge pulls the same tactic,
<v Speaker 3>and we'll talk about that next week. Does it does?
<v Speaker 2>Watching it after the credits started rolling, so I don't,
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what.
<v Speaker 3>It's the same. It's the it's the explosion.
<v Speaker 5>Oh, I was waiting for Bruce to smile at us.
<v Speaker 2>I forgot. I have one shining moment here that I
<v Speaker 2>forgot to mention when I said, good stuff all right,
<v Speaker 2>and that is the composer. Composer for this movie is different.
<v Speaker 2>It was different than Superman one, different than Superman two.
<v Speaker 2>We know that in Superman two that John Williams met
<v Speaker 2>with met with Dick Lester, and when they went to
<v Speaker 2>the bathroom and came back, He's like, I cannot work
<v Speaker 2>with this man and left, and so somebody else had
<v Speaker 2>to take his music and do something with it. And
<v Speaker 2>basically we had the same type of thing with this movie.
<v Speaker 2>But the guy that they got to do it is
<v Speaker 2>a composer named Alexander Kurage. And as it turns out,
<v Speaker 2>Alexander Courage had actually worked with John Williams extensively. He
<v Speaker 2>was his orchestrator. He would orchestra. He would take John
<v Speaker 2>Williams music and would make the full orchestration out of it.
<v Speaker 2>And he did the same thing with Jerry Golds and
<v Speaker 2>so he literally was in the right spot to just
<v Speaker 2>take I mean they even say it at the beginning
<v Speaker 2>in those super Fast credits, based on, you know, the themes
<v Speaker 2>of John Williams, right. So he he took this music
<v Speaker 2>and did the right things with it. Quick story. He's
<v Speaker 2>mostly an orchestrator, but he was the composer of a
<v Speaker 2>very famous score. He composed the original music for Star Trek,
<v Speaker 2>the TV series from the sixties. Wow what Yeah, so
<v Speaker 2>not bad. Here's the rest of that story. Gene Roddenberry
<v Speaker 2>decided to write some lyrics for that song the O. No,
<v Speaker 2>not that like literally like like lyrics were. There are
<v Speaker 2>words to be sung, It's just that nobody's ever actually
<v Speaker 2>heard those. But he wrote them, which means that he
<v Speaker 2>got half of the royalties from all of the times
<v Speaker 2>that they've used that score. Geen Rodenberry got half the roles.
<v Speaker 2>So I think Alexander courage was felt a bit screwed
<v Speaker 2>over in that circumstance. But I just thought that was
<v Speaker 2>an interesting story.
<v Speaker 3>All Right, everybody, We've got mister deaf Dave back to
<v Speaker 3>do a shurly showcase. This time, he's going to go
<v Speaker 3>back all the way to season one, where we did
<v Speaker 3>a match up Bill and Ted's excellent Adventure versus Bill
<v Speaker 3>and Ted's bogus journey versus Bill and Ted face the Music.
<v Speaker 3>Let's hear what Dave has to say.
<v Speaker 8>Greetings, royal ugly dudes, This is Deaf Dave Esquire and
<v Speaker 8>I have traveled through time just to give you this
<v Speaker 8>Bill and Ted review in order to unite all podcast
<v Speaker 8>listeners and save reality as we know it. Recently, I
<v Speaker 8>noticed that strange things were afoot on Amazon Prime. So
<v Speaker 8>after watching Bill and Ted Face the Music, I wanted
<v Speaker 8>to send you this most non heinous Shirley showcase, but
<v Speaker 8>I couldn't think of anything to say. At first, I
<v Speaker 8>was like, lyrics, sit up some lyrics, dude, But then
<v Speaker 8>I decided to go to the future and get this
<v Speaker 8>review from future Dave since he had plenty of time
<v Speaker 8>to write it. At first he was like, get away
<v Speaker 8>from me, you COVID pandemic dip weed, but then I said,
<v Speaker 8>this is a film review, Future Dave, not a medical review.
<v Speaker 8>But since the clock is all I was ticking in
<v Speaker 8>San Dimas, I'll skip the rest of that story and
<v Speaker 8>get straight to it. I saw Excellent Adventure in theaters
<v Speaker 8>my senior year of high school, and it was an
<v Speaker 8>instant classic for me. Any movie that can get away
<v Speaker 8>with soakrates and mister the kid playing catch for the
<v Speaker 8>nerve football is my kind of movie. Gingas Con Twirling
<v Speaker 8>is aluminum bat like he wants a second shot at
<v Speaker 8>Riggs and McClean the fruit dude really enjoying his corn
<v Speaker 8>dog at the food court. Historical Babes and short dead dudes.
<v Speaker 8>They're all so funny. But what makes it work is
<v Speaker 8>the genuine friendship between Bill and Ted. In a world
<v Speaker 8>that certainly must seem too complicated for them, they have
<v Speaker 8>found each other, and their dim wittedness allows them to
<v Speaker 8>take all the absurdity of time travel in stride, because
<v Speaker 8>how was that any more difficult to understand than algebra class?
<v Speaker 8>And the idea that these two lovable, sweet losers would
<v Speaker 8>one day make the music that would align the planets
<v Speaker 8>and unite the world is just hilarious. This movie earns
<v Speaker 8>my highest recommendation to all my cinematically inclined comrades. Listen
<v Speaker 8>to nineteen eighty nine Deaf Dave. That dude knows what
<v Speaker 8>he's talking about, even though I'll probably never watch it
<v Speaker 8>again because I've seen it sixty nine times. I also
<v Speaker 8>saw Bogus Journey in theaters a couple of years later,
<v Speaker 8>and I was disappointed in it. It just got a
<v Speaker 8>little too weird for me. Words like Station and Melvin
<v Speaker 8>just made no sense, and it was basically a big
<v Speaker 8>miss for me. There were highlights, of course, Death is hilarious.
<v Speaker 8>Death was easily the best part of that movie. I
<v Speaker 8>think he's a great addition, and he was awesome, and
<v Speaker 8>there were some important continuity bits at the end with
<v Speaker 8>the future history of the Wild Stallions. But I do
<v Speaker 8>not watch this movie very often. It's a thumbs down
<v Speaker 8>for me. Put it in the Iron Maiden, and now
<v Speaker 8>that brings me to Bill and Ted face the music. Now, look,
<v Speaker 8>you can't have a totally triumphant sequel without Eddie van
<v Speaker 8>Halen on guitar. And you can't have Eddie van Halen
<v Speaker 8>on guitar because he's dead, dude. But otherwise he's doing
<v Speaker 8>okay now right away, this movie made me mad with
<v Speaker 8>the Bill and Ted Daughters. Since this franchise is always
<v Speaker 8>gleefully dismissed any worry about time travel paradoxes, then so
<v Speaker 8>do I write like any plot hole created by time travel,
<v Speaker 8>you just kind of shrug your shoulders, play some air guitar,
<v Speaker 8>and get over it. But the franchise does respect its
<v Speaker 8>own continuity for the most part, which is why the
<v Speaker 8>Daughters annoyed me. Bill and Ted had sons at the
<v Speaker 8>end of Bogus Journey. So either the sons are thirty
<v Speaker 8>years old and this movie just ignores their existence, or
<v Speaker 8>were supposed to accept that they really had daughters and
<v Speaker 8>they're still only teenagers. Either way, I don't like it,
<v Speaker 8>and it doesn't help that the two actresses playing the
<v Speaker 8>daughters have zero of the chemistry that Alex Winner and
<v Speaker 8>Keanu Reeves have. As far as Bill and Ted themselves,
<v Speaker 8>it was great to see them again. All the bits
<v Speaker 8>where they run into their future us as are great,
<v Speaker 8>and so their scenes almost work. They almost capture that magic.
<v Speaker 8>But the only thing that was missing was punchline. It's
<v Speaker 8>the plotline of the Daughters that comes the closest to
<v Speaker 8>recapturing the magic of the first movie. The idea of
<v Speaker 8>traveling through time to assemble the best band in history
<v Speaker 8>is a winning idea. Seeing Jimmy Hendrix and Louis Armstrong
<v Speaker 8>casually hanging out in the background of scenes really channels
<v Speaker 8>the tone of the first movie. It really felt like
<v Speaker 8>the Bill and Ted story that I wanted but never
<v Speaker 8>got in Bogus Journey. The only problem was that Bill
<v Speaker 8>and Ted were not in these scenes. This should have
<v Speaker 8>been the movie. This should have been Bill and Ted's story,
<v Speaker 8>but instead is given to the two daughters and they
<v Speaker 8>just drain it of all energy. Also, this movie would
<v Speaker 8>apparently have us believe that the only white guy to
<v Speaker 8>make a historically significant contribution to music is Mozart, and
<v Speaker 8>I'm just not ready for that level of disrespect for
<v Speaker 8>King ad Rock. I had just about made up my
<v Speaker 8>mind that this new movie was a disappointment when Death
<v Speaker 8>and the Killer Robot from the Future Dennis Calea McCoy
<v Speaker 8>start taking over the movie and suddenly I'm laughing a lot.
<v Speaker 8>That pure Bill and Ted brand of absurdity is captured
<v Speaker 8>and now I'm having fun. And then I gotta say,
<v Speaker 8>the ending blew me away. It was never about the
<v Speaker 8>song itself. It was about all of us singing together.
<v Speaker 8>What an incredible message. It just kind of snuck up
<v Speaker 8>on me and punched me in the face. Now, and
<v Speaker 8>the music itself had me fired up, like it gave
<v Speaker 8>me goosebumps. It was an awesome movie moment like this
<v Speaker 8>is a great ending to this.
<v Speaker 6>Now.
<v Speaker 8>I don't think the movie had done enough to establish
<v Speaker 8>the daughters as these cool DJ producer types, so that
<v Speaker 8>part seemed a little unearned. But hats off, because this
<v Speaker 8>movie absolutely delivered on the ending. We actually do get
<v Speaker 8>to see wild Stallion's music unite the world world and
<v Speaker 8>align the planets, something that was teasing the first movie
<v Speaker 8>we never expected to actually see, but we get it.
<v Speaker 8>And what a perfect ending to the bill and head story.
<v Speaker 8>So for me, the ending of Faced the Music totally
<v Speaker 8>delivered and with the help of Death and Dennis Caleb McCoy,
<v Speaker 8>managed to save the whole movie For me. There are
<v Speaker 8>things about it that still annoy me, but it's a
<v Speaker 8>net positive, so it's a thumbs up from me. So
<v Speaker 8>here's how I rank them in last place, of course,
<v Speaker 8>at number four, Bogus Journey at number three, we have
<v Speaker 8>Faced the Music. Then at number two it's excellent adventure,
<v Speaker 8>and then San Demus Football number one. Huh, well, that's
<v Speaker 8>gonna do it for me. Guys, I've got this creepy
<v Speaker 8>guy staring at me like he wants to play a
<v Speaker 8>game of battleship.
<v Speaker 3>I love your show.
<v Speaker 8>Keep it up. I'm gonna get out here, but I'm
<v Speaker 8>leaving you with these most bodacious words of wisdom. Be
<v Speaker 8>excellent to each other. And oh I almost forgot future.
<v Speaker 8>Dave wanted me to give you a message. He says,
<v Speaker 8>congratulations on your fight Club versus six Cents episode. It
<v Speaker 8>was most triumphant party on dudes.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Dave, great job as always, super created, super insightful.
<v Speaker 3>Love the movie quotes hilarious. I gotta disagree with you
<v Speaker 3>on Bill and Ted's bogus Journey. I think that was
<v Speaker 3>a lot of fun, but for the most part, I
<v Speaker 3>think you nailed it. Thanks again. If you aren't familiar
<v Speaker 3>with Deaf Dave, go back to our season two matchup
<v Speaker 3>of Beastie Boys License to Ill versus Run DMC's Raising Hell.
<v Speaker 3>Dave is a superstar when it comes to discussing eighties
<v Speaker 3>hip hop. He's also a very successful writer. Go check
<v Speaker 3>out some of his books. I myself just picked up
<v Speaker 3>The Gideon Kine Demon Hunter, which is a collection of
<v Speaker 3>short stories including our pal Van Allen, Plexico and mister
<v Speaker 3>Deaf Dave himself. I can't wait to dive into that.
<v Speaker 3>And I gotta say I love the message from Future
<v Speaker 3>Deaf Dave about the matchup between six Cents and Fight Club.
<v Speaker 3>That's a mammoth matchup from nineteen ninety nine. We'll see
<v Speaker 3>what we can do, Future Dave. By the way Station,
<v Speaker 3>This movie was nominated for two Golden Raspberry Awards. Just two,
<v Speaker 3>just two, worst of the worst. Right, we've picked the best,
<v Speaker 3>worst movies of all time. So the first one was
<v Speaker 3>worst Supporting Actress for Mariel Hemingway. She lost to Daryl Hannah.
<v Speaker 2>For Wall Street.
<v Speaker 3>Oh.
<v Speaker 2>The second was for worst visual Effects, lost to.
<v Speaker 6>You.
<v Speaker 2>Got it really up for our next podcast, So guys,
<v Speaker 2>be sure on whatever podcast that you are listening to,
<v Speaker 2>hit that follow button, hit that subscribe button, Go check
<v Speaker 2>us out at Shirley Podcast on Twitter, at Shirley Podcast
<v Speaker 2>on Facebook. You can check out the film by guys
<v Speaker 2>at a film buy on Twitter, same on Facebook. Correct, yes,
<v Speaker 2>all right, why don't you guys tell us what your
<v Speaker 2>next episode is going to be so that people can
<v Speaker 2>tune in for that.
<v Speaker 5>Well, today Brad and I went back to Summer School.
<v Speaker 5>We talked about a film by Carl Reiner, The Mark
<v Speaker 5>Harmon Classic Summer School. So that is available right now
<v Speaker 5>on your favorite streaming platform.
<v Speaker 2>So everybody, thank you for two in. Be sure and
<v Speaker 2>check out our next episode where we dive in and
<v Speaker 2>tear apart just the revenge.
<v Speaker 3>You guys coming back for that right, We will see
<v Speaker 3>you next week.
<v Speaker 5>We will definitely be.
<v Speaker 2>Back to this time is personal. When the Canes Film
<v Speaker 2>Festival would happen can the Cane Yeah, sorry, the Cane
<v Speaker 2>Film Fest Cane Can Can Can con Con Can Can Can.
<v Speaker 3>I was here at Can. What do you think.
<v Speaker 4>Brad would be? Yeah, I've always called Can. I know
<v Speaker 4>that the winner gets the palm dure gone.
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go con