#93 Josh Osborne - Writer of 14 Number 1 Songs, Grammy Winner and tells stories about early Sam Hunt

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Speaker 1: I welcome to the episode ninety three. I was just kidding about this songwriter Josh Josh Osborne here we've met. It feels like every time we meet, it's like, but this is my impression, both of us kind of don't like to be in the way. That's exactly right. I'm the I feel like anytime I'm anywhere, I'm the one people don't want to talk to. So I'm just on the wall. No, I don't think. I think I'm the one people don't want to talk to. People want to talk to you, but you can hide behind me. And so every time I see you, it's like, hey, man, are you good? Yeah, yeah, good chickends like we don't kids, buddy, big big, thank you doing good stuff. Good, but it's good to have it. Good to hev you man, thanks for having me. So I told Josh before we started, I was like, yeah, who would have thought anybody cared about songwriters? And you know what's funny. I did an interview M M I earlier this week about this podcast, and they were like, hey, why did you start doing a podcast about songwriters? And I said, well, it wasn't just about songwriters, about the second level of Nashville that people don't normally get to hear in the songwriter world. You are again King Dingling, and people don't. It's gotta be so weird to be so and you're gonna play humble but you're so big but yet No, but for lack of a better term, you can walk down the street who you are. No, that's a that's a big part of the appeal for me. So you don't care about no, not at all. I love I love writing songs. I want people to like my songs, um, but I don't necessarily and we're I'm not necessarily worried if they know me or not. I just did more. I love the music, and I love the camaraderie of the writers and stuff. But I don't get as much hung up on the other part. Do you want a billboard like Shane mcinally, where it's faces up there and then we all drop by and go NA there is now alright. That's why Shane. I think that's why Shane and I worked so well together. You're you're quiet, dude, You're you're you're. I like that about you because I am too, and people expect when I walk in to everyone to be the big guy, the big Gregarias. I got nothing to say to anybody. You know, you say it all day though I've already say I have for seven hours out. Yeah, so you have, uh, I mean fourteen that you have so many clips we don't even put them all. You have so many. Number one, you're my age too, Like there's no way you should have all this money and all these songs. Let's just be honest, like, but it's like, really, I come from I didn't think I'd be able to do what I loved and make a bunch of money. And that was okay with me because I loved just being able to be on the radio and be on stage and you end up comedy like, I just loved it. It It didn't matter what it paid. I was going to do it. That's it. And I get a feeling because you got from Kentucky, from Arkansas basically the same, the same, right, it's it's the same thing. I have a feeling that here you are now, and I mean it's got to be kind of unexpected to come down and not because of your talent, but because who would have thought you could write songs and be really successful. I didn't. I mean, I love what you said. I think there's so many creative people that that's the truth. I mean, we would do this if we weren't getting paid. And I think that's the one of the secrets of life is find the thing you would do for free and get somebody to pay you for it. And and that that's my whole goal, or my whole thought process in doing music. Was I love doing this, I'm too stupid to stop doing it, so if eventually I can be successful and lucky, Um, that was the dream, and luckily for me it happened. So when you moved to Nashville and is eighteen years old, right out of high school, so was the dream or you want to be an artists? Huh? Well, when I first moved here, I think a lot of people have that happened. Um, I didn't know being a songwriter was a thing, and so when I first moved here, I probably did have a little bit of an idea of maybe I would sing songs and write them and stuff. I just knew I loved writing the songs. I didn't know I could just write them. Was that a big jump for you to move down here? Oh? Yeah? Yeall come from a small town like how many people. The actual Atlas population listed of my hometown is three hundred people. It's well because my seven hundred and rarely there's someone come in with. You definitely beat our town in a fi'm the New York City. Yeah, yeah, you probably had two stoplights. We actually had no stoplights. But Hot Springs had stoplights and a lot of them, like seven we'll see. Okay, So we had pike Fool Kentucky. Was I'm from Virgin Kentucky, but pike Fools that are Hot Springs A parent r yes, was your mask? Ot the Virgins because that have been awesome. School was the Virgin Virgins. It got called Virgin a lot like if you were in um whatever they would say. And now the group from Virgin High School or Virgin Middle School virg Now we were the Eagles, Virgin Eagles. What were you like in high school? I think a lot like I am now. I've always kind of been pretty low key. I love I love hanging out with people, and I love, you know, trying to be funny, trying to make people laugh and stuff. But I was I was pretty much. I got along with everybody. I had friends that were football players and friends that were in the band I had. I just don't. I just kind of like everybody, I'm pretty easy going guy. That's your reputation. I was talking to someone today who's a songwriter friend of mine and they're like, Hey, what's happening, And yeah, I've been doing some stuff with work and say, hey, Josh Aport's coming about've been We've been trying to get them for your topped to book for like four months. It's like trying to get Lady Gaga songwriters. It's like, hey, with and he was like, Josh is probably the night because people will come in and I have friends love songwriter friends, and I'll call them and go hey, nice guy or misunderstood you know, how's he gonna come off? And they're like, you know how Barry Dean was super nice, Josh I was weren't even nicer. And I was like, I was like, well, that's good to know. So that that's the reputation that you have from unknown from that yes, yeah, writer artists, Yeah yeah, I mean yeah a bit. We'll just start with a couple of songs. Dude. It's like I'm looking at the top uh football team and going just pick a team that's good. I mean, then all these are how about I'm just gonna hit this one. There we go this one. Have you heard this one before? Has this been the one? Though? This like shifted it for you? Yeah, I mean this is a song that reached a whole thing that I never thought was possible. He got into the pop party, got into a different well, it started touching other walks of life. So my my wife's sister just recently got married in September, and so at her wedding shower, they would do a thing where back in the summer when they had her shower, they had everybody right out of card, like play right down the three songs you want us to play at the reception that we can dance to, and every card had Body like a back Road on it. They didn't, you know, they obviously no, all no, I wrote that, but they that song was on there, and I've I've never had a song touch that wide group of people. You know, what is this here? This Josh Osborne is something. Yeah, that's why body lack up back driving with my ask kind of with curve black back. It was I think it was from the Nashville Today's show. Oh that's what it was from the cancer. So just as fast as I can get sing, I wish you'd fitting Dugans. She don'tly no bad, I could turn the man side up. I only know, how do you feel about yourself as a singer. I don't think about it that much. Like I'm not a I'm not a again, I'm not a person. Most of my favorite artists aren't necessarily great singers, so I don't really get hung up on a great voice, like I love Bruce Springsteen, who's an interpreter. The Beatles are the reason I'm a songwriter. Um uh. And you know, John Lennon didn't necessarily have like this powerful, great voice. He was just an interpreter. He was a great um great getting the message across. But I think the thing that drew me to country music was I did love country voices so much like Keith Whitley. People like that. So the Beatles they have ever band. Yeah, I mean, I know that's a stock cliche answer, but they are. Yeah. I think it used to be. I think it's I think now I believe people when they say the Beatles, the Beatles and Creed those are the two that well with arms wide open. I mean that did change my at least my hairstyle. Listen. I went to create concerts of You Tell Josh and went to a Creed concert. I did well, and they never came to Virgin so I didn't. Yeah, but I drove a little rock. Oh well, you were a fan man, you drove all the way a little rock. I drove a little rock. And I got out the radio when I was seventeen, so I caught the Creed hysteria. And again, we're the same age, we're the same point. Just just know where we are in live. I went and I was doing radio as a teenager, and I went to a Creed show and I was backstage and Scott Stapp comes walking through. Scott he talks like that and you have to like that, and he was like, eight, I'm looking for a ping pong table. And here I'm a teenage and Creed is the biggest band in America at the time, and I'm like, okay, I gotta find this guy pink pong tables. I'm calling people and we got a peine pong table. So finally we find a pink pong table. They bring one in. He's like, hey, look for somebody to play with you you ever play. I don't like a pink boll. I probably played five times in my life. I was like, of course I played pink bong and he's like, let's play pink Bong. I'm peeing myself because I about to play ping pong. Scott Staff from Creed this is the guy you know, what if? What if? So we start to play and he's really good and he beats me, and well I sucked, but still that's the shutout. That's impressive. But I was really bad. And then he told me, hey, can you find somebody knows how to play? And I hung my head and shame And that's my Scott stat of story. Wow. Yeah, because the Beatles and Scott stabbed to me interchangeable. Yeah, you can start one or the other is yeah. So have you get to you can do a lot of cool things. Have you get to meet Paul McCartney, And actually I do have a funny Hurtney's story. A few years ago. Um, I was in l A for the Grammys and Shane mcinnelli, who I worked with a lot, um, is not I mean, he obviously knows who the Beatles are, but he's not a fan. I mean, I'm I'm a big time fan. They really are. My dad introduced me to the Beatles music when I was like twelve or thirteen. That's what maybe would be a songwriter. And so Shane had had said, Okay, I'll meet you downstairs for breakfast, going down and get a table. We're staying at the at this hotel, the Four Seasons in l A. And so my wife and I went down to get a table. We go, We get our table. Shane comes in as pale as a ghost, and he says, you're never gonna believe it. I just got on the elevator and Paul McCartney was on the elevator, and I said, are you kidding me? Like, if I had waited for you and come down, I would have been on the elevator with Paul McCartney. But would you have said anything knowing you, Yeah, I would. I have turned this this point in my life where now if it is somebody I want to talk to, I will go for it because it's just so rare. Like you said, I could probably have been the closest I'll ever get to. There are a couple of things that I tell listeners they're call up to me. The Hey if I see someone out, I'm like, if you see artists or someone the admirer, first of all, you can always tell him you're a fan. Always does that who it is, Hey, I'm a huge fan. But if they're with their kids, that they're eating, that's when you don't. Otherwise if you want to wait there and like, but you can. You should always tell somebody you're a fan of them. I mean, especially if you legitimately are you know what I mean, Like I there is that thing that can happen and sometimes where people just want to talk to somebody famous because they're famous, But especially if you're a fan of someone, you should not miss that opportunity because they it does mean something. I got an elevator with the Prince once. I didn't say anything because he had well, the thing was, he was playing like this secret bar in Austin, Texas, and nobody was supposed to know. And I'm in the elevator. I didn't know Prence was. I knew he was in town, but I know he's playing this bar and I get in and there are these three or four humongous dudes and there's something behind them. It was that something was Prince because he's so small, and they were they had like surrounded him. And I walked in and then two of them walked out and I saw and I didn't know it it was Prince and I saw printics and I was like, dang, I was in the other were prints. That's pretty freaky cool. I probably wouldn't have said not, not with the security detail that he had, because when you have that many big people, you don't want to be talked to. That's that's see. Now, that's that's the other thing you should tell listeners if they're surrounded by four large men, if it looks like they don't want to talk to you, they probably don't. But we're in a format though, too, where people people are pretty accessible. I agree, we we have a lot of That's another thing where people always ask me, and I imagine you get this all the time, uh, asking about country singers or whatever. What's Keith Urban? Like, what's Kenny Chas? And he like, what's Sam Hunt like? And they get sick of hearing like, Oh, he's actually a good guy, down to earth, nice guy. You know, people get sick of hearing that. You know, there there's gotta be one jerk among them. I'm like, I mean know, I've been lucky there. Oh, there's a couple of jobs. There's a couple. Let me talk about sleep number for one second. Alright, so as we record this, it's a holiday time, and what can be better than giving the gift of better sleep. Maybe you've considered a sleep number bed, but you thought, man, I don't know if I can afford this. Maybe I can, But who can afford another mediocre night sleep? Or really, if you sleep better, you work better for me? If I sleep good, I go into the show, I've feel like a million bucks, I get better ratings, boom, next thing. You know, just raking it in. It's not that easy, but man, better sleep does actually help you perform better. Nine I ten. Couples also disagree on mattress firmness of the sleep number bed. Let you choose your ideal comfort, your ideal support on each side, so it's good for both of you. Five ft nah, twelve ft away. I have a sleep number better my bedroom because this is upstairs in the bedroom, so I have a sleep number of my setting is thirty. My sleep by Q score last night was in the nineties. Sleep number beds cost about the same as a traditional mattresses last twice as long owners recommend, and right now, if you go in, I save two undred bucks on the Queens se four mattress would sleep I Q technology. There you go, plus by a new cool two point o pillow, cool fit two point o pillow. You get the second one half off. There you go. There are lots of eight D next bed to find a sleep number store near you. All right, so let's see what else do we have with Josh. How about I'm just gonna close my eyes and see what I have to see what I hit? How about this one? Josh had so many number one set in the world on Fine Kenny and Pain massive song. Almost screwed up with this song because I was obviously I want your real story, and I'm gonna just tell you a terrible story before you tell me the good one. I was with Kenny and the album was it was the album was coming out and Kenny now were in l A and we were talking and there were no micro of funds and Kenny goes, hey, um, here's the thing. Pink wasn't gonna get on that song. He said it wasn't gonna put it out as a single either, because she was doing her own thing on She didn'tant anyone to be on the radio compete. But then she got pregnant and so and it wasn't announced that she was pregnant yet, and he's telling me all this stuff. And he didn't say, hey, don't say anything. But luckily I'll lock things down unless I say, hey, is that? Oh is that kind of on the record or off? But Kenn, he just talks and says all this stuff. I have so many things that Chest told me that would never repeat in a million years. But like then, like a month later, comes out Pink's pregnant. It's been super secret. And I was like, oh, thank god I didn't say anything. Thank god I got to be a single. Thank actually got pregnant, because I mean that song turned massive. That was that was a special one. Yeah. Um I had heard that too with Pink that once. Once he got her on the song. Then there was this whole debate about, um, what we can't put it out because she's she was going to put out a new singer and and I think it was gonna go on to her or something. And then I think, like you said, she got pregnant. It kind of shifted all the plans and uh, and then all of a sudden they said, all right, we can put it out. That's crazy. I mean, it's crazy how things. I don't know what you believe. If things happen for a reason, or if you just waited out eventually and you work hard, eventually things happen. I don't know what your what your whole thing is there, But I mean that's a shifter for Kenny too. He told me, he said, listen, that gives me ten more years. This song reaches people that are ten years younger than some of the other songs that I've done. So you wrote that one. But what what was that? Where? What's the deal with that song? Well, the whole story, it's so funny that the l a Grammy story. Um, when we were at that particular Grammy's um, Shane and I want to Grammy for the song with Kasey Musgrave's Merry Go Around. And that night afterwards, when we got back to the hotel, my wife and I went back to our hotel and they knew we had won. They put a bottle of champagne in our room. It was just this amazing like we were out on the balcony of our hotel room, just screaming, and like it's you know, it's something as a songwriter or a creator that you know, a Grammy is sort of this unattainable thing. It's like, you know, yeah, I'll win a Grammy someday, but it's all in ingest. And uh, that whole night just became this this like movie in my mind, being with my wife in this amazing moment. And I went into this right with Matt Jenkins and Ross Copperman, and Ross played that music basically like what what you know? They did a great cut of it. It sounds exactly like what Ross had laid out, this sort of bed of music, and he played it. And the second he played it, this track with no words on it, and just for some reason, it triggered this like emotion and these memories and it all just kind of started pouring out and and and Matt said, I have this title. I don't know exactly what it means, but I thought it sounded cool. It's called setting the World on Fire. And I was like, man, this feels like that night in my life. And so we wrote it. Um from at least from my perspective or my point of view, it felt like a very personal song. And it wasn't necessarily one that I thought, you know, I didn't instantly think of Kenny, I thought, because it just it felt so personal to me. Um. But then Ross's publisher sent it to Kenny and and you know, within a couple of days of him hearing it, he told us he was going to cut it. So it was that that was one of my favorites I've ever been on because of it had such a personal thing for me. So that won't right to Kenny, And Kenny said, yes, yes, it was that that fast, Yeah, that's Hey, what is this? Here is this? Uh? This setting the world on fire? It's a demo? Al right, here is setting the world I fired the demo. That's this guy gets better at day? Well otto to me. Yeah, and I'll send a lot of man and buy that uet huh. But it was such a great idea to put her on it. So how did that process come about? Like, hey, was it Kenny? Want of Kenny's people like who goes, Hey, what about a duet? And then what about I don't know if he tried pink first or what the deal was, but well, I um, once he had recorded this song, I think he got the idea of putting pink on it, and I didn't know anything about it until we were at the c m A Awards and I was walking through backstage like going out to my seat. Kenny was there and I just kind of waved, was like, hey man, he comes out of his conversation, grabs me, like hugs me, and goes, man, I got Pink to sing on that song. And I was like what. He goes, yeah, I got Pink to sing on It's gonna be awesome. And then he just walked off and I was like, does that mean? What I think that means? And so we went out to and what you think it means? That means as a single? I mean it's just because it's a multi format it because at first I was thinking does he really mean pink? Like, hey, does he mean my song? Like is there's any confusion? Be does he really mean pink? And see then the thing in your brain, the business that does take over a little, and you think, man, it's gotta be a single. Then it's got pink on it and gone to the effort. If you're not gonna put it out right exactly, that's what you would think but then, of course we did start hearing the whispers of luck, because I think even Kenny told me that. He was like, yeah, the cut sounds amazing, and I don't think we're gonna be able to put it out for a while. I don't know if it'll get to be a single, because she's gonna put a song out and I just don't know how it'll work out. And he, I will say, as an artist, is very um considered a songwriters and will not string you along. He won't give you a lot of empty promises. He won't he will err on the side of caution because he's a writer too. And um, so I think he was sort of bracing me in case, like, hey, we may not get to put it out as a single. I don't know. And then all of a sudden he kind of got the green light on it, like you said, because she ended up that she was pregnant. So and then it became a monster. Like the song is still cool and in our format. The problem it's not a problem, but something that I don't like is how fast songs turn over. And this wasn't happening fifteen years ago. This is a recent thing between labels and radio and it's and to me, it's a disaster because it doesn't allow longevity in any of these songs. These songs, it's just like the next next label trades it out, label trades it out number one, and it's just like, good god man, how are we supposed to really love songs if as soon as we start liking them, you go, it's number one, boom, next up. So that's been my frustration and for even for our songwriters where one of my buddies is running for Congress now Lee Millon right, So, and so I've known Lee was one of the first guys that songwriters that I knew in town, and we we'd write some stuff together. The funny of this funny song, he was very funny. So yeah, really funny. Oh I did a song writer? Listen to this? Let me sidetrackers, Like it is the worst story for me. It's a terrible story, terrible night in my life. Lee goes, hey, we're doing the big songwriter, but the tin tin pants out there. It's like where you're a worshiped like because you're Josh Osbourne. This is where the writers coming. It's it's the writer thing. Can say it, he says, that I know you write a bunch of comedy, right, do you stand up? We put out a comedy record. It was okay, it did pretty well, but it was not good. We did a kids record, which is really good. He was, I know you do we write songs, Come play in a songwriters round with me. I don't know what I'm getting into. I don't even know what tin pants out there? Right. This is at the time, this is like two and a half years ago, and I'm like, tin pounts out is that like the tin roof? Like as this is at the tin Roof. I was like, I get in and have a couple of days on the road and then I'm coming right in. I'm happy to go play the song writer round with you. And so it was like cool, and I'm thinking me andly, you know, we're gonna gonna get up there in play a song. I have a little bag of worth and you know. So we go to whatever venue it was like the listening room or something, maybe not even listening room, but one of those places like that, and it's like, hey, a couple other a couple of folks, and I play with this. I was like, okay, yeah, what do I care? Like I'm not any good anyway, so let's let's have more people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it goes this is um this way before I started this podcast, and I've really gotten to no songwriter. And he's like, he's my friend Chris, and there's my friend Ashley, and I'm like Christie Stefano Ashley Gorley, and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. So we get up there in those all four and those two dudes have written tons of hits, and Chris Stephano seems like a freaking angel. Yes, Chris is an he writes carry songs and can sing Carrie in Yes, Yes, just like Carrie. And so it's Lee who's funny and better than I all around about everything, like my strength is funny, and he's funnier than I am, and he's better at music. And then I play than christ Stephano, than Ashley Gorley. It was the slowest two and a half three hours that I've ever experienced, and that was my my songwriting around. But Lee, my point was he's running for Congress now, right because he's a big guy. Like, hey, songwriters are not getting paid and here's the problem. The the internet still the while West. It's we're having songs that are getting million to streams, We're making eight books, and what's gonna happen is it's gonna kill the songwriters because people are gonna go, I can't make money, and the upperture is gonna be fine. The upperture is still going to continue to make their money, he said. But it's it's discouraging to new songwriters, to people. He said, so and as you know, we've been up my capital capital all so many times talking and he's like, fine, screw it, I'm just gonna run myself. And I'm like, that's a ball or move from somebody who really wants to make it change. So he's running, and I start to think about radio and digital and for me, the radio is just it's the phone. But you know what happened. The weird thing is if something doesn't change, and I mentioned I think the radio being the monster has about five years and it really but if something doesn't change with songwriters, and radio loses three percent a right to digital. And I hope it does because all my I'm already set up, I've already built my house over on the digital world. That it's it's gonna hurt you guys even worse, because then radio is gonna be gone, and if you don't have some kind of planning for streaming, radio is gonna be less. And then streaming is still gonna be kicking in the balls, and it's gonna be like what you're gonna make even less? Right, Well, we're having we're having to hang our careers and our hats on radio right now. And and if radio goes away, that's where you're hanging your hat. So Lee, you gotta make it change, You gotta make it happen. Then I tweeted out, we have right, but only if you live in like Brento, because it's like a district. I tweeted out last night. I was like, hey, listen, because I'm independent, the guy for have friends of the Republicans as the Democrats. I grew up in Arkansas, which is heavily read. I have liberal views like I'm pro gay marriage, pro I'm just have so many things that I just feel like I can't attach myself to a party. When I was gonna for governor of Arkansas, I was gonna run an independent because I don't have backers to go. I'm haven't It's all about money, right, And I was like, I put it up there because you can look up and see the thing you donated to. Yeah, that's right. So I was like, just so everybody knows, I'm donating to a Republican Lee Miller. Do I agree with everything he stands for, because I just know people are they're gonna they're gonna find everything and be like, oh, he's a secret Republican donating to a Republican exactly. But I like what he's doing for songwriters. And I wonder your thoughts on on him running for office. I mean, is that because that's really his thing, Like he wants songwriters to get paid. He is the if there were one songwriter could do it, it's him. He. I'm actually on the n s A board and and working with him. He is so knowledgeable and so smart and so passionate and those are the three things that we need. Because I've done a couple of the trips to Washington where you going to talk to people, and I think, look, it's a big world, and there's a lot of scary and bad stuff going on, and in the scope of things, it doesn't seem like that problem compared to you know what other things we're dealing with in the world. But when you sit down with people and go from an analogy standpoint, songwriters almost the farmers of the music industry, and our songs if we don't make the money from streaming, like you said, if radio goes away, there there are a group of writers who have had success right now. But that the group of writers that are now moving to Nashville. And you know, Nashville notoriously is a ten year town, like five or ten year town. If you're if you're a new writer and you move here tomorrow, ten years from now, what's the music business even look like? So what have you? What have you put your life on hold for? You know, like you you come here and you you don't go to college, and you you don't don't necessarily get a career. You get a job so you can try to chase your career. And if you do all those things and then at the end, at the end of the day, you write a song like body like a Background that gets streamed five million times or whatever, and your profit from that is eight thousand dollars. You know what, what was it all for? You know? You to do it? Yes, you do it for the art, but you have to hope that there's a light at the end of that tunnel. And if and if you take it away and the streaming things not fixed, there is no lot at the end of that tunnel. And that's what's scariest to me as someone who writes not music music but just I'm terrible, but someone who writes generally books and comedy songs, like I see it for you guys where it's like if Red Deal loses one and a half percent a year, two percent a year for the next seven years, that's a big number. And I'm fine because I can do whatever I do anywhere on demand streaming. People are paying me to do commercials, just like I talked about sleep number a minute ago, like two million subscribers this thing and se numbers gonna pay me because people listen to it. But for songs, it sucks because you're in that place of what happens if radio loses one point five percent and streaming still doesn't pay us, And that's a weird place to be. It's not for you. But if you're you're looking at but that's what you don't go talk to d C for you. You're good. You're talking to d C for the people that are haven't had the success that you've had yet, sure well. And I think there's a thing too that that if streaming could get regulated a little bit. I think one of the um hey days of country music. I think admittedly everyone would say it was, you know, sort of the nineties was kind of the heyday. You know, Garth was at his peak and Shinai, and there was all these huge artists, and everybody was selling records, and even like a mid level artist was selling three or four million albums and it was million about that, and they were reaching all these people. And I think one of the by products that you don't necessarily look at until you're sort of peeling the layers back and looking at it is I think sometimes even it hurts the craft a little bit because you can't go into a room and your focus can't be I want to write the closing track on the album. I want to write this great piece of art you in the back of your mind from a I want to sustain my career point of view. You have to be thinking, I have to write a song that could be played on the radio. You have to write a single, you do you have to think we have to write a single. And I think that's a byproduct of there's just you know, there were so many of guys songwriters in the nineties that made careers that of having album cuts. There were guys that made more money off of having songs on Garth albums than having singles. And and I'm not saying it, well, I'm not, you know, foolish. It's never gonna get back to that, but there is a way to make it to level the playing field a little bit. And I think if we can people like Lee and and honestly people like you having a voice on the radio and at least speaking about it, it's it's getting it to where people are understanding that it is actually an issue. Most people just don't know. And you tell them, well, this song was streamed a hundred and fifty million times, and and and on my last ASCAP statement, I made a thousand dollars for it. It blows people's mind. They don't understand it. And and I think it's just right now we have a lack of knowledge. And I think you have a lot of really old people, which is always the case whenever it comes to lawmakers. You have a bunch of really old white people and they don't understand. But it's always been this cycle. It's like, this is new, But we can't expect a sixty eight year old guy from Pennsylvania to understand what Spotify or Apple Music or I Heart Radio or title is. Like we just can't because it's not in their life. So it takes and not just for music, just in general with laws, and like I think there should be a law about texting and walking. Now does that sound ridiculous, Yes, But if we're gonna have Seabell laws on bike helmet laws and you're gonna walk down the road texting, you're gonna hit my car, you're gonna get into trail. But who's going to think about that unless you're twenty eight to thirty eight years old. But that's why I think fourteen year old should run profie. We should have one, just one super kid in every state. What you're doing now, what you're doing now, is you're writing a great movie. Right now, this is gonna be a movie where it's like a kid, there's a mix up. There's the name of a famous Senis student council, but he accident accidentally puts his name in and he's got the same name as a famous guy that's running for governor, and somehow he gets elected, and because there's some law in that state that can't revoke it, so he we have a fourteen year old governor and within two years that states the best state in the country. And so then you're seeing it writes itself. At that point, you we have a start here. I know that's kind of a ridiculous thing to that, but I worried about songwriters in that way. But it will all shake itself out. I do. I will say I feel optimistic for the first time, um because there are songwriters are being heard now the issue right now, and I think everybody would acknowledge this. In our country right now, there's just a cacophony of noise. It's this is a problem, this is a problem. This is a problem. So I think it's just finding enough staying in people's ears. And I can't say enough about the good that like N. S A I does for songwriters and and and it has produced someone like Lee who has so much knowledge, and I think the inner workings of working with Bard Herbison and people like that that are involved it. Um At N s A. I it's it's just those kinds of things I think are are at least giving me optimistic feelings for the future. Let me had another song here, let's push a button. And how about this song right here? We've had another Sam Hunt song. Make you missed me about my checkie? So you're in the Sam Hunt camp, hump. This is a town of camps. Well, and I've known Sam for I've been writing songs for about eight years now. So you were in the sand Hunt camp and he was just Sam. You just write with Sam. Sam and I wrote our first number one together, which was come Over. I sued you I wouldn't come. I sued you wouldn't kill baby clamming. Now, wait, is this you singing? Okay? I was gonna say Sam, but already missed once on this. So this is Sam saying, come out demo, getting many cold Come Come Come. That is such a good song. Like of all the Kenny songs, that one and you went Tequila, but that come Over, that's that's a jamp. And I'm not a huge Kenny like, I don't listen to Kenny a lot by myself, but when it comes to the songs of Kenny thought, I well, listen to by myself, this is one of them, like, you guys did a good job. You don't need me to say this, but you guys did a good job. Like this left is a good appreciate So was that ever a thought of when di did Sam want to keep come over? Well? So again that was early on. And when we wrote this song with Sam, he had a different producer. This was before I don't even think Sam had met Zak Crowley yet, and he was working with a different producer and they were trying to make Sam more country because you know, at the at the root of all that, Sam's Georgia boy, and he's got a country voice, um, and he writes about country things, and so his producer was trying to make him more uh not necessarily traditional country, but just more country. And we wrote this song was Shane mcinally, Sam and I and we were all excited about it and we went in and cut a demo on it, and the producer was like, you know, I really liked the song, I just don't think it fits Sam and and I was kind of devastated. I was like, man, because I loved Sam's voice and I thought, man, this feels like the turning point. It feels like we just found something because we've written a couple of songs with him and then we wrote this and it felt like we had sort of cracked open something and gone, here's the sound here and um. At the time, Sam was managed by Clint Higham, who manages Kenny, and Clint really loved the song too, and and he was he was really excited about that particular song. And I think he sent it to Kenny, not pitching it to Kenny, but he sent it to him and said, Hey, this is this new kid Sam I'm working with. Just check out where he's going. I think he's starting to tap into something. And Kenny heard the song and said, I love this song. Could I could I have this song? And you have to think about it. I mean I didn't, but I remember Sam calling me and he said, what what should we do? I mean, obviously this is a song that you know means a lot to me too, And I said, uh, do what do what's best for you And I'll be okay either way if you need the song, if you feel like you need this song more than you need this cut, Because you know his aspiration was to be an artist, I said, then I'm totally fine with that. And if you are okay with letting Kenny go, letting Kenny have it because it would be great exposure for you, I'm great with that too. I will support you either way you want to go. Because at this point we were we're friends, like we had a relationship, and it was more you know, when you have a friend, you kind of like, I want to do what's best for you. I want you to get out of this what you need out of it, and um, and he was just really open and said, you know, I love Kenny Chasney and it would be amazing to hear him on a song of mine. And and again at that point, I think Shane had had one number one at that point, and and Sam and I hadn't had anything. And so Sam was like, let's if he wants it, let's let him have it. Here's the demo again, one you can even in the Kenny version here Sam, though once you know Sam, you can still hear Sam and a little bit of the verse. The phrasing. That's what I was said too. From feeling like we found something was that phrasing that sound. Sam kind of came in with that thing. He was like, I want the verse to do this thing and um, and you know it's funny with that song. The hook of it, the come over, come over, coome over. It was an accident. We had written this song all day and we thought it just needs a simple title, and so originally the hook just went getting any colder, come over like that was all we were doing. So when we're laying down the work tape at the end of the day, just so we remember the song as we're playing the outro, Sam goes, come o over coome o over coome oh over coome o over coome over, and I like stopped playing the guitar and Shane I looked at each other and we're like, what was that and he goes, it was just an outro thing I was thinking about doing. I won't do it if you think it's distracting, and Shane said, no, I think that's the hook. I think when you do that every time, every time it comes aroundy of the course, you say it like five times like that, And so that really became the whole hook of that song. And it was sort of a happy little accident that fell out happy little accidents. I love this, you know, here's this one Blake Shelton Sangarrea. But by the way, the raging it is that we're doing our in our parody stage. We did Tortilla, Huge, Hit, Monster, Hit, frust We stall your song made Monster, I love it. Weren't making the money off of it, don't worry. Well, I just don't play that things because hold on, it's like, uh e minor CG. Is that what it is? No? No, no, no no no no, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll play that. Sometimes I'll pop out the old Yeah. Sometimes if I'll just stand up and if I'm like bombing, like if people don't they're not feeling me, I'm like I'll be like, all right, let me played Tortilla. Sometimes you gotta play the hits. How do you feel about that? How do you feel like getting parodied? Oh? I mean, I think it's awesome. But to have a song that's like big enough for people to care enough to parody and I think it's awesome. Come on, when you heard it the first time it was stupid or I don't know. Honestly, I'm being very serious. I think it's great that it's like if the song is big enough for people like it, enough to do a parody of it. I mean, why not, man, that's what I like to hear. Why here's Josh sing and Sangrio back then Big sad, skin is big and kiss. I like this vergeon better with its stilaxin sta slaxin so sexy. Yeah, you know that song you wrote. I felt like kind of got robbed just because I listen. If anyone has fights the radio, it's me like, I fight with myself, not myself. I fight with my own that way. When I have opinions. People know if I'm like, this is awesome, they know that I've also said stuff sucks too. What song I felt kind of got a raw deal that you wrote was this one right here random bis As far as what a great song, people didn't know what to do with it. They just it was so odd, but it was awesome, but they were sure. Radio program directors a lot of we're scared because they're like, oh, if I don't know what to do, so I'm just gonna get away from it and go back to what's familiar and comfortable. And I felt like the song was so good, but it was a little uncomfortable. Well twenty seconds of acapella at the beginning. The Sam stuff was uncomfortable. It took that Sam stuff took forever. But I felt like that Vie. I felt like Vice really took in the butt. It's that song should have. Really, I appreciate you saying that. I'm very proud of it, and she um. She is an amazing songwriter. Like I don't know if you wrote that with her. And it was the first time either of us had written with her, like Shane, excuse me, Shane had had a song with her Mom's Broken Heart, but I'd never i'd't even had a cut with her or anything. But she came in to write with us one day. And it was actually around when all the stuff was coming out about her and Blake getting divorced, and so we is that kind of I get it kind of because because we were it was all kind of hitting the fans, so to speak. And and she's a pro. She just showed up and she was like, hey, I'm here to write. I mean, we gotta get this stuff out. We gotta write and she um that song in particular. I was so proud of it because we you know, Shane and I again, or we don't know her that well. She's going through this sort of traumatic thing in her life. We're trying to with kid gloves be like, would you say that, I mean when you are you okay with saying that? And she would say, I would absolutely say that, Let's do it because we're we're trying not to push her um into saying something she's uncomfortable with her, or pushing her too far. And she was. She was game for all of it. What song are yours? Do you feel like you chase now? You're like, man, that was my song? Like it doesn't have to even be a huge be like I wrote this that that's and you're like, man, if I could just get that again, like that was the bottle song. One of those for me is uh John Cougar, John, Dear John? And when that when you wrote that one? Was it? Like? Is it like you felt it? Yeah? What about it? The lyric, it's not a linear lyric. And one of the things I love about other genres Country music, traditional countries my favorite music. But one of the thing I love about other genres is they don't feel this um. They don't feel compelled to write everything in a straight line like we do in country. And that's what I love about this song. They're just scattershot images and these things that are just Marilyn Monroe in the Garden of Eden, Like, I don't know what that means, but at the same time, I knew exactly what that means. It almost felt to me like the first time I heard it again, just a fans interpretation of it. When I was hearing and you mentioned those two things, there are a couple of songs. Uh, like we didn't start to fire, huh. You know, it's just it's just a lot of stuff and it doesn't make sense separately, but when you put it together, you're like, oh, this all kind of makes sense. Once you put it all into the world as we know it r a m same kind of feeling. Stop and you're like, what's also, Yeah, what's all this happening? And you're like, Okay, once you put it all together, it's like it does kind of a cow it's the end of the world as we know it, And you're like, yeah, I did feel that way about this song too. It's funny you say that. I would have never said linear because I'm not smart like you and a kind of song writing, but I did. And that's that's interesting that you felt like it was written in a slightly different formula. Well, and and and even, and it's very slight the difference in it. But like so much in country music, we feel like we have to write to the hook of the song, the lyrical hook of the song. And I think on that song in particular, we kind of wrote about the hook as opposed to feeling like every line has to feed into it, every line has to explain it. We just sort of thought that line says it all. It's like growing up reading the Bible, growing up on John Cougar music, growing up on a farm. I mean, that's what that song is all about, grow up in a small town. And once you have that line, you can kind of put anything around it. What is it that you do to stay? I? I work. I played country music for five hours a day. I had my favorite like they just released what you've listened to most lists, like on your computer, and it was Um. Obviously Lindsay and I are close friends, Lindsay all and I and and I was so close to that album. So that's my number one listened to artists. But Stapleton, it was Ed Sheer, and it was John Mayer that was those are like that. I'm forgetting somebody else too, but those are the top people that I've listened to this year. What do you listen to outside of country, because again, I played all day long, so sometimes I just turned on talking podcasts and and get away from it. I listened to a lot of podcasts. Yeah, Like in the car, I um, I don't listen to music a lot because I've worked all day. Like if that's how I feel about there in the morning, exactly the same way, because you're going for five hours and play songs that I go in for for five or six hours and write on a song and and typically by the end of it, and I know, look, I'm not trying to say this is a hard job. It's not. It's just a different kind of job. It's it's more mentally exhausting. Like you're thinking the whole day, this has to connect with this, and it's it's like putting. It's like if every day you went to your job and your job was to put a puzzle together, and and at the end of that day, when you're done with the puzzle, you'd be like I just we go home and eat some pizza or something to watch TV and so a lot of times in the car, even I um, I listen to podcasts or I listen to books a lot, like audio books and things. Do you feel like that's cheating? Because I listen to audio books too, And then when someone's like, hey, what have you read, I'm like, oh, I read that, you know? Well, I will tell you this about myself. If this gives you a window into it. I'd never tell anybody I listened to a book. I'll say, oh, I read that, you know, So you don't feel like it's cheating, or you do, and you just I do, and I lie, And I think I do feel like it's cheating because you're still consuming the same information. I mean, I'm with you, like if I you Seinfeld, I know your friends from your Seinfeld. Remember the whole thing with Castanza where he said I can't read a book because it's in my own voice, but if somebody, if I could get a book on tape, it's in someone else's voice. I think I have that thought. I hear enough nonsense in my own voice, you know, if I can hear someone else explain the same information to me, all the better. So I listen to the podcast see which one. The one I really like is I don't know what you listened to, but um, I like the one that NPR does. It's called How I Built This? Do you ever listen How I Built this? Man? I listened to the one on five hour energy but the guy who who who invented five hour energy? And I did that one I did Alvin and the Chipmunks where they talked about how that happened. It was like, I love but it's probably why I love doing this. Like when I started this podcast, it wasn't to reach some mass amount of audience like this. It was an accident. The fact that the thing is bown up is a complete accident. It's a heavy, little accident, and so but I was just passionate about it. I was like, man, I love that. Second, I love songwriters, producers. I don't think people know about this, and the people that want to know, we're gonna be super served and then everybody else is not gonna pay any attention to it. But I was surprised, and I'm surprised when they were, like I genuinely was. And so the podcast like that, like that How I Built this? The nerdut I listened to that sometimes I've listened to a couple of times. I listened to UM a lot of times on trips. I love the podcasts that are like Cereal so you like the episode of ones I do. But I also loved like UM. I haven't listened it in a long time, so I say loved. But I used to listen to UM Here's the Thing a lot with Alec Baldwin because he would interview just interesting people like it wouldn't all be actors, it would be people from different walks of of different successes and things. He would interview musicians, he would interview actors or whatever. But it was very similar to this, and it was just kind of a peek behind the curtain. Yeah. I also felt like podcasts like reading a book, like I'm learning, so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time. No, I agree. What kind of music do you listen to it that isn't country? I listened to a little bit of everything. I listened to a lot of Lightning One. Yeah, because it's it's just UM, it's country music without country. I mean, it is just real. It's a triple A format or whatever you want to call a format. And I'll get started on formats, and I'll drive you crazy because I have this whole thing. Formats are stupid and the phone is all in any format. It's a whole thing, right, I could do a book on it. But yes, I also enjoy Lightning one Hunter because that's just music. It is, yeah, and it's um and it's a great way to discover stuff. Like there's a band called Lord Huron that I've recently got into and I've discovered them on Lighting one hundred. Um um the National Sorry, I can remember the event I discovered those those guys through Lighting one hundred. It's just a lot of music that's like not what I hear every day, and it's music that bleeds over into my music. I think it's stuff that gets me excited creatively or or or or I love so much a turn of phrase. Um, like there's a line, and I love everything. I love so much music because I can find something in all of it and stuff. As you were born in napster age where we were, it was okay to different kinds of music. Well, you could access everything, You're right, I mean back in those days this was, like you said, you and out of the same age. We were just our our height of consuming music, like when we're just dying for it, like when you were this massive Creed fan, and I imagine, but we were. We were just prior to the iPod thing. And so I used to have all these burnt CDs at my house and it would be fifteen songs that wouldn't be the same artist twice, you know, and um, it would be Oasis and Blur and and it probably was a Creed song. I mean, obviously wasn't. I'm not gonna challenge your fanhood on that, but I'm doing a Creed song on there. But you know, so it would be a little mix of everything. And because of that, I think we come from that generation where all music was just music. It was just music. And so again my I tweeted and I get in trouble for tweets. Last night. I was tweeting because I was looking at and it said I had listened to twenty six different genres. First of all, that made genres. I didn't either. And even with radio John, the country genre is now because people will go, you know, play more traditional country, and again that and it's always been like that. And that's the thing first that people I guys have to realize is that this played traditional country. This isn't people now going, hey, the music you're doing now to progressive. It's always happened. Like I sat with Guards and he was He's like, man, people did this to me. They were like, you're not real country. Yeah, I'm so glad he knows that because that's the that's right. He's like, I came to town and people were like, what is this guy? This is not real country. So this is a and I've told the story before when my grandmash she went from Arkansas. When you're from Arkansas, you love Arkansas things because we don't have a lot. And so it's Glenn Campbell and Brooks Robinson, Thart, Basic for the Orioles and Johnny Cash. And so she went to a Johnny Cash concert and they were protesting outside because they were like, this is rock and roll. This is not country. The guy that we see as the quintessentil country artist country artists was told you aren't country. So this is the thing that happens all the time. But my point last night with my tweets that got so many people piste off at me was that it's country music is not the walls are shifting a bit too, more of we're kind of feeding a life group instead of a country group, because there's no country group. It used to be the music in the southeastern California, like that's where people really consumed country music, and it didn't go really into the big cities. It wasn't an urban population thing. But now when the digital age comes, we're all affected by this music we're hearing all the time, even subconsciously. We don't even have an idea, but we just this is what we know music as. And I think when people go, hey, look at Sam and I've it's easy to say it now because he's a monster, but I've always been a huge Stamp opponent because he's what country music is right now. But country music is a life group more than a format, right. I agree you're preaching to the choir. I think you're exactly right. I get asked that question a lot about Sam because I um have a relationship with him, and people will say, does it bother you when people say Sam Hunt's not country? And I'm so glad the Garth thing because one of the funniest things to me a couple of years ago, when Garth did the live TV show UM in Vegas, Yes Vegas, and the Facebook feed or Twitter everything, and it was all people saying, man, I miss the old days when country was country. And I just remember thinking when I first moved to town, even in the late nineties, it was still you know, well Garth Brooks is ruining country music, and you know so it's like you're right, time shifts everything and everything changes, but nothing changes. Everything changes and nothing changes. That's exactly right. So when people go with Sam Hunt's not country, I'm like, Sam one is exactly what the country music life group is, because look at this freaking show. Look a look at the people exactly, and they love it and they're there to have a good time. And it's like, I love the thing. As you said, it's it's more of a life group than a country group. It's more than a bunch of farmers it is. It's like, it's it's people that just hey, I like this guy's music. And that is a byproduct of the digital age, and I think it's again we're trying to figure out how digital streaming pays, but I think we're also still figuring out how digital streaming affects the country. I mean, the whole. I mean the country as a country because we all have access to the same music. You can be listening on a Spotify playlist and have edge here and in the next song could be body like a back Road and it's like, all of a sudden you're introduced to that and then people do like it. So I it's just an interesting time. And I'm with you on the genre thing. I don't know. We country music sometimes feels like we are such a rigid genre. I think we're one of the only ones that will chastise someone for Lett, he's not country, but he wants to be in this format, like he's he's good for this format. Why do we feel the need to push him out or you know, or whatever. I don't think anybody's saying Taylor Swifts not pop or Taylor Swifts not top forty radio, like we're not gonna play her, And I don't know why we. I mean, I guess fundamentally, people feel like we have to protect the past. We have to protect the history, and I'm all for that, but at the same time, don't, for lack of a better term, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Don't don't take these people that are bringing fans too country quote unquote country music. Don't push him out the door and go, well we don't want you here. Well, you're gonna kill the format. And it's not just music that this happens in. But if you don't stop, if you stop the growing, eventually it will die. And again, I came here because I was just arrogant enough to think, Okay, I can come and actually change some things and some ideas. And it was brutal for about all time. Even today it's always brutal. But I'm happy to take that on. But yeah, yeah, yeah, enough, I listen, you're not gonna just sit here and talk about the theory. Oh my goodness, because I am. I will go NonStop. I can't. I get missed so many fights with people. I think I'm the perfect person for this job because I have an absolute respect and history for classic country. Like so, I was just wanting much to adopted me for a while my mom a little bit, I got moved around a bit and so but it was you know, I was from Arkansas, so Arkansas things matter first. Because you just like you're from Kentucky. I'm sure you're a freaking Wildcat fan gag, right, because that's right, not on purpose. It's just not even sent of my clothes. It's just law of averages, pull up shirt and so are you know you from Arkansas? You love that first, but then it's you know, with her, it was records because she was It was the Hank Seniors, it was even Hank Junior in his early days. It was. But I grew up listening to all of this, and so I have so much respect for it. Yet I still have so much like, look at what's happening. They're like, I'm at least the right age to be the person to preach. Not everybody feels that way. John. I don't know if you've heard, but I can be polarizing. I'm a polarizing figure. I've seen the Twitter stuff. I want to talk about music. How about let's just hit a button here. What about this one? Girls? Recent recent number one for you? Most recent? Nicole is on this one. Welcome to the Mirror. That's somebody else was kind of crushing it right now. It is Nicole. She's doing fantastic. She's an amazing writer, and she talks to play Downey and she's like, you know, and just write a little bit my spare time. Oh I know, yeah, exactly. Well, I will say she does write in her spare time from making Instagram posts. So I think the greatest instagrams already maker I've ever seen. You know how we get inspired by, like I get inspired by comedians. You get inspired by like when I when it's Instagram storytime and I watched Nicole. Yeah, Nicole got she makes she has this been all the time. We're all making those Instagram stories. And and her kids are famous to me, like her and Shane's kids. Both they're famous to me. I said with a Shane on a flight, well one road behind them, and he was the first class and I wasn't. So I wasn't. I wasn't like almost first class, you know that one right behind the barrier, and Shane's kids at first class seats. This sounds about And I was like, come on, exactly, they don't in the same seat, like yeah, but on Instagram, Nicole and Shane's kids are famous to me. Absolutely. That's weird that social media makes me feel like people are famous because I followed people. You follow people you don't even know them, and you feel like you know them a little bit. Yeah, I mean, I'm not. I don't Instagram and stuff to the degree of like Shane, It's my whole purpose of my Instagram is just trying to be funny, Like I just try to putt like funny pictures one of my favorite things to do. If you ever go check it out. You mentioned Ashley Gorley earlier. I love Ashley Gorley. He's from Kentucky. He has no presence on social media, like he's not on Facebook, he's not on Instagram. So I started doing this thing, and I don't know why it started, but I would take the app where you can blow things up, so there would be a big picture of a group of riders, like a CMA triple play, And for some reason I decided to blow Ashley's head up in the picture, like really big, like a balloon. And so now every time actually has a number one or something, I'll post some pictures and I'll just and I'll never acknowledge it. I just blow his head up really big in the picture and his wife. At one point I forgot to do it for a couple of songs, and his wife texted me and said, you haven't gone soft on Ashley, have you. We've been waiting for another picture. So that's basically my extent of Instagram is that I'm just trying to make myself laugh. But here's this one. This is for I Graham here too. People said, gotta they're gonna win. I don't think. I mean, I don't know. I'm hoping either that every body like a background. I think. But listen, I know because I think I presented song of the Year at I did it in Taylor one for better Man. I think Sam should I think you guys should have won the g That song is the biggest song we've had in years, and it's a small only a small group. I'm gonna give you an example, big sports guy. Okay, Peyton Manning got screwed out of the Heisman. Okay, Now I'm not a Tennessee I'm not a volunteer favor but there was a certain group of people that did that put Peyton Manning solo on their list. They didn't even put him second or third that he ended up not winning the Heisman and finishing second. Charles to Charles Woodson right, who you know kicker turned was the defensive back, also played a little wide receiver. What's in phenomenal Peyton Manning should have won the high and everyone says, and he had more first placeboats than than Watson did, I believe, but some people kept him off the ballot period. I think body like a back Road is had that happened where they're just there are just a few haters that hate so much they won't even put it up there in the top few, just to be like I do. And and that's what's kept it from winning awards. It pisses me off. Well, I mean, it is part of the you know, it's just part of the business. It happens like that. I mean, it's the biggest song in the past five years, ever seven years. I mean it used to be Cruised, but it's bigger than Cruise now. So and I say bigger. Hasn't had time to out sell it yet, but it has. It was number one of Billboard longer than Cruise when it broke the record. I'm so piste off about your song. You should be mad and you you should be doing I can't. I can't. You know what I mean, you kind of you kind of just it's uh, there's a small group of haters because they they hate on me too. I just want to punch them all right in the face. But I'm a big boss and you can't punch it well, you can't punch down. You gotta just you gotta down. Well, good luck with the Midlands on Those guys are nuts. And that's that's one of my favorite songs too, because it has that, like I said, you're talking about loving everything Arkansas. I grew up in Kentucky and we had one radio station near Virgie. It was w z okay, and every morning they would play old traditional country music and they played Gary Stewart, who's from Kentucky every morning, an empty Glass. They would play that at seven thirty in the morning. I would be getting ready for school. They would play that and Keith Whitley And like I didn't even know Keith Whitley passed away. When I was a kid, I thought, I'm still star because he played him on the radio all the time. So drinking problem is, is those songs for me? Like it's that kind of the heart of that kind of snuck into that song so many I'm just gonna push a couple of buttons so quick. Yeah, I mean, good god man, why don't you write some more songs? They're hits by the houses. You got just this one? Come on, you gotta you gotta have more than that. Let's see here. How about this is interesting? I know the Billy Carrington we Are Tonight? She wrote Sam wrote this together, remember, And I don't think if it was on the air off a Sam being like, we thought about that song for me and if that was the direction I wanted to go, Yep, that's exactly right. Well it was again that was pre Zack producing Sam and Shane cut the original demo of we Are Tonight. It wasn't even a demo, it was just he did the original cut on Sam and I think it was in a batch of songs with Make You Miss Me and we Are Tonight, and there was another one out all think ended up making the record either. It was just kind of the early start of stuff and it was one that Sam just never was quite sure it fit him, like on a record, since he does it live till he does it in his shows and stuff, but he didn't feel like it fits that record. And I think Dan, I'm trying to remember. I think Mark Beason had played it for Dan Huff because Mark and Dan are really closed and Mark said, uh, we could really use this for Billy because it's tempo, and you know, Billy has such a great voice. I don't think he gets pitched a ton of great tempo stuff because people are always wanting to hear him croon on something. And Dan was like, man, if you, if you guys would let us have it. If you, I think we'd cut it on Billy. And again it was very similar to the Canny Thing, a little different at that point because Sam had some success as a writer and he had remember I think he had the record deal already at that point. Um, but he felt like that song she went right for ver Mont of Vallum, so he um, he let it go. And and Billy, I mean, they just cut the crap out of it. That's such an amazing cut. Here's Sam doing weird tonight. It still feel like a Sam lat song. What's crazy about that? It does sound like a Sam Lait song whatever whatever that I mean, probably because it's Sam La singing it. But this is small town girl. Everything is right, and we flew the world to twelves in the truck back beating bunch of rock stones on the river bank, singing everything. Here's a couple of songs that I haven't been singles that I really like. First of all, I thought I just just begging Black River to really square pegs on Kelson's last record, thank You loved that song you can. Maybe it's because I'm awkward and I related to it. It's like, I love the song. Everybody Got Everybody Got a ting sales and square person the world. God, Yeah, that's a good one. Thank you. Sorry it wasn't a single. Oh man, it's it happens. Life goes on. I guess these other fourteen number one life goes on? You know another one that isn't it? Well? I imagine if iur a betting man, I bet this one's going to be a single. Is this one that I think? You? Shane? And maybe Lindsay wrote just another girl? Oh yes, with the Broken? This is on lindsay Ls record. Yeah, with the Broken. I was talking to her because she criminal that they just put out singles doing massive right now, it's gonna be that song is gonna be a top ten song. It's not even out for ads and it's already get like thirty ads. It doesn't go up to for next week, and so criminal is gonna be. And I was like your next single is probably just another girl after it's number one, Like what do I know? I have a lot? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, just I could pressure just you know, I hope you know somebody big in radio. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good one. Like I remember that's one of the last songs that she had. She was like, hey, I'm going to drive with Josh and she was doing Chane right and she came back and I was like, dang, that's a really good song. I said, but we were and we were still dating at the time, and I was like, except I sound like a total douche. It sounds like you're thinking about the weird thing is I gotta tell you about your songwriters? Man, Like I get it to in a different way because I go on the air and I talked to whatever amount of million people and I put I say really personal things and I put it out there, and it's my therapy. You have to go and into a room and be super vulnerable with somebody else and to go like, here's my sadness, so here's my happiness, and let's turn it into something. And it's a very and you know this well too, is you right as well? It's a very vulnerable thing. I mean, you, uh, nobody. I don't think anybody ever wants to look like a fool. And when you sit down in those rooms, it's it's who's the first one to say I have an idea or who's the first one to say this is what I've been going through. And that's why in those writing systems you get so much of of I don't know if this is the right thing, but but you know, because we're all, you know, trying to protect ourselves. But I think that's part of what I love, and especially when you get I think part of the reason again talking about Shane mcinally, part of the reason that he and I right so well together is we just know each other so well, and we met each other at a time when we didn't have anything going on. He had a there's trust there with that too. They're not in the same way with people absolutely because I don't feel like they're they're my buddy now because of any sort of success. They've been your buddy the whole time, my buddy when I was broke, and that's that's Shane and I. And so it's also a comfort level and you can find that with other people eventually, like, um, when Ross Copperman is another one that I write with a lot. And when Ross and I met, he had had some success and I had had some success, but we just bonded and got really close over that. So you can definitely find it in other people and um, but it is a very vulnerable thing. I mean, it's very much you're just putting it out there. You ever go to a therapist, I don't know. I do every day from about eleven to four, fair enough, and I do every day from five until yeah, exactly, But man, I got it. I gotta go tomorrow. We talk about being vulnerable. Man, this isn't from the Twitter thing? Is that we go? That's all ever from the Twitter things, everything from Twitter everything. I appreciate you coming by. I I'm a big fan. And I know we've been able to say hello a bunch of times and and give each other half hugs, and neither one of us kind of want to not that we don't want to be where we are, We don't want to be anybody's way. That's a great description. When you said that, I was like, because I feel like every time we see each other it is very much like like Hey man, I want to bother you. All right, I'm gonna get out your way. Because we met the first time at the Saint Jude thing a couple of years ago. Oh at the Writer's X thing and uh, and it was a huge deal for me to meet you. I was like, oh man, but you were. But we've had a very similar thing that we just kind of said hi and we sort of receded into the night. You know, when I get the reputation of being this yeah loner or or douche or because I don't talk to people mostly because I don't want to bother people, and I'm okay with at this point in my life. It's like, I am who I am, and if you want to think I'm a dick, I just I just I just I just I'll feel comfortable. I'm not the guy that goes to a room and is the lafe of the party. And I mean me neither. But I do love you know what, people like you. Everybody's like, gods, great, ask them about me. It's like not even the other way. It's like that Bobby, I can't take much of him. And to give you, I'm gonna leave you with one piece of wisdom. This is my goal of life, and this is this, this will help you. The reason people think that about me is I always leave early, so I don't I don't stay around long enough for them to be like man, that guy, that guy wore out as welcome. I kind of go in and I hang out for a little while, and I have this thing in my head of when is the socially acceptable time that I can duck out of here? And that is right when I dug out of there, And I'd like to leave you the piece of wisdom. Okay, anytime there's a party and they started seven, you get there on six fifty and they're still making the food, don't do that. Thank you very much, exactly. All right, there we go. Uh hey, dude, thanks for coming about me. That was good in your rote today, Huh, I did is a good one. I think it was really good with the Matt Dragstrum and Jaren Johnston. It's a good one, say Jared. I think Jaren wins our biggest truck contest, right, Like, he drove his truck over and you couldn't park into my garage and he threw a fit because he's like, were you giving a parket spot. I was like, dude, I know you're driving your eight team. We learned the parking lot. That sounds like I like that Jared School. I like Jarren a lot. Man. He's honest, So you gotta take a lot of the good with a little bit of the Come on, man, don't we I love that dude. I like that dude. Al Right, there we go. Josh I was moren episode Mike episode nine. Hey, good luck in your career, buddy. I'll see you next time. Alrighty