Should We Actually Be Worried About the National Debt | Diving In
In this opening episode for Platypus Economics, Justin Wolfers explains why the federal budget deficit is one of the best examples of how economics can clarify a debate that politics often mangles. The central point is simple: deficits are not automatically good or bad, but a tool. And the only serious question is whether borrowing makes sense given the economy, the emergency, and the country’s ability to pay.
In a crisis, large deficits are often smart policy—stabilizing incomes, supporting jobs, and keeping an economic downturn from becoming a disaster. But today’s U.S. deficit is different. America is currently running a very large deficit—about 5.8% of GDP—without the usual crisis justification. The stakes are not instant collapse, but a slower erosion of fiscal capacity, institutional credibility, and the ability to spend on things that could actually improve your life.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Available Results
Generated results are saved to the knowledge database for reuse and search.
Extract Knowledge
Pick what you want extracted first. Model, scope, and chapter options appear after a template is selected.
Transcript
Gooday. Today I'm launching something new. Welcome to platypus economics. I want to begin with a topic that's perfect for what I want to do with this, because it's a topic that shows exactly where economics is so useful and why public debates about it so often goes so wrong. The topic it's the federal budget deficit. Thrilling stuff, I know, but hey, stay with me, because this is actually a lovely example of what economics does at its best. A lot of economics feels strange when you first hear it, counter intuitive, a bit backwards, a bit like the platypus. You see, when the British first saw a platypus, they thought it was a hoax, a mammal that lays eggs with a duckt bill and venom. Good luck with that, mate. But the platypus wasn't nonsense. It just didn't fit the categories that people expected. And the same thing happens in economics all the time. People hear the word deficit and think the answer is obvious. Deficits are bad, right, end of story. But that's too simple. Sometimes deficits are smart, sometimes they're dangerous, and the important question is not whether a deficit exists, it's why it exists, whether we can afford it, and whether it makes sense in the world we're actually living in. So let me use the US government's federal budget deficit to show you what I mean. First, we'll start with the basics, some definitions, and a primer on how you should think about scale. Second, i'll explain why deficits are not inherently bad and sometimes they're exactly the right policy. Then we'll get into the deficit that America is running right now, why it's different, how we got here, and why you should care, even if you're not the sort of person who reads CBA reports for fun, though I do recommend them. Let's start with the basics. Our budget deficit is the gap between what the federal government spends any year and what comes in through revenue, mostly through taxes. Our government debts is the accumulation of all the past deficits that we haven't paid off. People often mix those up. Once you mix up the basic words, the whole conversation can go off the rails. Now Here is the first lesson in economics, The obvious moral story is often the wrong analytic one. A lot of public debate treats the deficit as if a household over spending at the shops, as if the right answers simply spend less balance the book's job done. But a government is not exactly the same as a household. A government can tax rows in financial markets, it manages recessions and wars, and it sits inside a growing economy. So economists ask a different question, not do we have a deficit? That's too simple, not even how big is it? But instead we ask how does it compare to our capacity to pay? That's why deficits and debt are usually measured relative to GDP, which is basically a country's income. Think of a mortgage. A five hundred thousand dollars mortgage might be crushing for one family and fine for another. The mortgage the debt level itself tells you very little until you know about people's income, the interest rate, and their overall ability to pay. It's the same with national governments. Another thing economists like to consider is how fast the economy is growing. If our GDP is growing faster than the interest rate on our debt, well it makes it a whole lot easier to sustain that debt Over time. So the first thing I ask you to do is resist the easy slogan. No, deficits are not automatically good, but they're not automatically evil either. They're at all And like any tool, the right question is what problem is this the right solution for. Sometimes running a big deficit is exactly what a responsible government should do. Think about World War two, or the financial crisis of two thousand and eight in two thousand and nine, or the pandemic back in twenty twenty. In each case, the government ran remarkably large deficits because the country faced a genuine emergency. They were moments when the private sector couldn't do the job on its own, and leaving things on a business as usual setting would have meant failing to meet the moment. During a war, the government has to mobilize resources quickly. During a financial crisis, households pull back, firms stop investing, banks get wobbly and demand and could fall through the floor. During the pandemic, governments told people to stay home, stay healthy, and they shut large chunks of the economy down. If the public sector hadn't stepped in, incomes would have collapsed even more dramatically. Now of course, there are debates about how much government spending is too much, how long it should last, whether politician should spend wisely. Those are real debates, but the basic principle is sound deficits during a crisis can save jobs, stabilize incomes, and prevent a downturn from becoming a catastrophe. Which brings us to the more interesting question. If deficits are useful in a crisis, why is America running such a large deficit? Now? And here's the genuinely important bit, and it's a story the president never tells. The United States is currently running a very large budget deficit, despite the fact we're not World War nor a major economic and emergency. The latest report from the Congressional Budget Office, they're the nerds who get deep into this stuff, it said the deficit for the twenty twenty five fiscal year was about one point eight trillion dollars, which is roughly five point eight percent of GDP. Now, that's a lovely example of why raw numbers can mislead. Politicians love shouting trillion because it sounds terrifying, and to be fair, a trillion is a ton of money. But what really matters is that nearly six percent of our national income is an unusually large deficit for an economy operating in something like normal conditions. We're not really in the midst of a wartime mobilization. This is not the Great Recession, it's not the first terrible year of COVID. What we have instead as a structural mismatch a government that year after year is set up to spend significantly more than it collects, and if that continues, debt rises. Under that same outlook, government debt keeps climbing over the next decade, and according to the CBO, it'll reach about one hundred and twenty percent of a year's GDP in ten years time. Again, don't hear that as a movie trailer voiceover announcing imminent doom. Here it is a signal, as a fact, as information. It means the US is choosing a path in which our debt burden grows significantly even before the next emergency arrives. A major consequence of this is going to be rising interest costs. A federal government right now, it's spending about a trillion dollars a year on interest, and that interest bill is projected to continue to rise sharply in the years ahead. So that's money spent paying interest rather than buying anything new. Not a bridge, not school, not funding a medical breakthrough, just interest. And this is where economics helps. The popular conversation often swings between two silly extremes. One side says deficits never matter. The other says every deficit puts us on the verge of national collapse. Both a nonsense. The serious view is this, deficits are sometimes useful, sometimes harmful, and what really matters is the context. And the context right now is that America is borrowing a lot at a moment that either is or should be a time and peace. We're borrowing a lot at a moment that either is or should be relatively normal economic conditions. Or, to say it more directly, we're running big deficits when none of the usual rationales for doing so apply. So how did we get here? Well, it's not through one decision, it's through a lot of the start with spending, A large and growing share of the federal budget goes to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicate, all valuable programs. Why are they taking a bigger chunk of change, Well, that's mostly demographics and the rising cost of healthcare. The population's aging. Baby boomers are retiring, people are living longer, healthcare keeps climbing. None of that's scandalous. In many ways, it reflects success. People living longer as good news, but it also means promised spending rises over time. Another big chunk of our spending goes towards defense, a bit less than a trillion bucks a year. Then add those interest payments, which keep rising with debt. So that's one side of the ledger spending. Now the other side revenue. Over several decades, the United States has over and again cut taxes or failed to raise enough revenue to fully pay for the commitments. It may think about the ray ear of tax cuts, the bush ear At tax cuts, the twenty seventeen Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. More recently, the President insisted on calling his latest one the one Big Beautiful Bill. And let's take a moment to consider the tax cuts in that bill. There was a lot there, several different cuts that affect a broad range of Americans. But you can really think about two big buckets. In the first bucket, you had populist proposals that were geared primarily towards the working in middle class, things like no taxes on tips, no tax on overtime, no taxes on social security, election catnip ideas that wouldn't look out of place at a Bernie Sanders rally. But these election gimmicks, which the President talks about a lot, they're all temporary. They're set to expire at the end of twenty twenty eight. In the other bucket, we've got what you might call country club tax cuts. This bucket primarily benefits the top ten percent of Americans, and these cuts, well, guess what they are extended permanently. Now, reasonable people can disagree about the economic merits of any particular tax change. Here's the bit that's not ideology, it's arithmetic. If you cut taxes, you don't cut spending by the same amount, you increase the deficit. Now you might reasonably ask, all right, but why should I care? Three reasons, and they all connect these big picture economic debates to your personal concerns. That's something I hope will do a lot of with platypus economics. So the first reason trade offs. Every extra dollar spent on interest is a dollar that can't be spent elsewhere on infrastructure, scientific research, public health schools, support for families, whatever your priorities happen to be. As interest costs rise, the room to do new things, or even to keep doing old things shrinks. Second, fiscal space matters, and it really matters in a crisis. If another recession hits, or another pandemic, or some financial shock we can't yet see, the US will want the ability to borrow and respond forcefully. Today it still has that ability, but borrowing heavily in good times means there's less room to do so in bad times. It's a bit like owning a credit card. Having a bit of extra borrowing capacity in reserves useful when there's a genuine emergency. It's less useful if you've already maxed out that credit card. Third, let's talk about long run risk, and I want to be careful here. Most economists don't think that the US is on the brink of a Greek or Argentinean style fiscal crisis. The United States borrows in its own currency. Treasury bonds remain a foundational asset, and global finance, the dollar continues to play a critical international role. These are all enormous advantages, but these advantages are not an excuse for complacency. Trust can erode institutional credibility. Matters, and countries get into trouble not only by making one catastrophic mistake, but also by normalizing years of unserious budgeting. And that's what worries me. So here's the broader point. The federal deficit is exactly the sort of issue that Platypus Economics is here for. At first glance, it looks simple deficits bad end of story. But once you slow down and ask a few of the questions that economists pose compared to what, under what conditions, who pays? What are we getting for it? The picture gets clearer and more interesting. The lesson is not the deficits are evil. The lesson is that context matters. Sometimes borrowing is wise, sometimes it's reckless. And right now America is on a fiscal path that deserves more honesty, more seriousness, and a lot less slogan driven nonsense. That's what I want this project to do, to create the space for those conversations to take ideas that can feel intimidating, strange, or counterintuitive, like a platypus, and show that once you understand the logic, these ideas can help you see the world more clearly. And economic ideas are not just useful for the big picture stuff you read about in the paper, like budgets, prices, or jobs. They're also useful in your life. They can help you make better choices, those choices, both big and small, the shape of good life. Where should I live? Should I get married? Is it a good time to go back to school? Heck? How should I spend my afternoon? Economics has changed how I understand almost everything. It's been a great gift. It's been a joy and a blessing, and I'd like it to be the same for you. So welcome to platypus economics.