244 | Why Kids Use "Potty Talk" in Session — And How to Stay Child-Centered When Responding

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Monica in California.

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And this

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has been coming up a lot,

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so everything goes in waves.

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This is about potty talk in sessions.

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Her words,

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not mine.

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I don't tend to say potty talk,

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but I'm just quoting.

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All right.

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So before we get into that,

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however,

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let me remind you all that January 3rd,

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we are having our live podcast event.

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Many of you have registered,

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really excited about that,

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looking forward to it.

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So if you would like to be a part of that,

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the link to register will be in the show notes,

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and please make sure that you get signed up.

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There is a cap.

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I think Zoom limits us to a certain number of attendees,

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and I'm not familiar with that number.

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I'll maybe say it in the next episode.

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But anyway,

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the point is,

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if you'd like to get on that call,

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please make sure that you register for that.

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And we,

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depending on the

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Reception of this and the number of people that are interested,

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we may start to do this on a more frequent basis.

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So make sure that you check that out.

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January 3rd at 2 p.m. Eastern.

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So make sure that you can work that into your schedule if you want to attend.

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All right,

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so let me read parts of Monica's email

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and then we will dive in.

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I have a question regarding one of my clients.

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He's 5 years old and struggling with big emotions in his class.

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He pulls cords,

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throws chairs,

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and gets really angry.

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I really believe play therapy is going to be beneficial for him.

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I echo those thoughts.

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All right,

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however,

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one thing that has come up in sessions is potty talk.

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He says butt and giggles a lot,

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butt with two Ts,

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by the way.

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This has come up a few times.

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I'm wondering how you handle potty talk in the play therapy approach.

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All right,

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Monica,

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thank you for the question.

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I have responded to questions like this in the Collective recently.

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I've talked about this on coaching calls recently

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and now I'm getting emails,

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so I realized that this is obviously something that

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first of all,

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is a conundrum for a lot of CCPTs,

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but then also it must be pretty prevalent right now and everything comes in waves,

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so we might be in this wave.

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So I'd like to dive in with some thoughts

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and hopefully this will be helpful to everybody because

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at some point this will happen in your play sessions whether it has

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yet or not,

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you'll get there.

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So,

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all right,

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first and foremost,

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the why matters

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hashtag it.

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I know.

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So one of the things that I think is really important in a scenario like this is to

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assess

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what's the rationale.

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So let's begin with the most.

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Obvious maybe.

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This is age-appropriate behavior for a five year old.

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Young kids

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are fascinated

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by bodily fluids,

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bodily functions,

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and the words associated with them.

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So saying poop and pee and butt

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and all of these things,

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toilet,

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fart,

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it's really funny to them and it's age appropriate.

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So Monica,

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first and foremost,

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I would say he's 5.

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This is probably just standard developmental behavior.

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However,

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I,

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I don't want to stop there because there are often other reasons as well.

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So,

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I don't want to say that that's an exhaustive list by any means.

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So let's talk through some of the other options.

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I think another consideration.

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is that it's a testing.

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And I think this testing could go in two directions actually.

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First,

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I believe it could be

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boundary testing.

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You've given me freedom,

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you've told me that I have autonomy in the playroom.

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And I want to know

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how far that goes.

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So can I say things in here that I can't say elsewhere?

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And you know,

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I think obviously he probably gets in trouble at school if

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he says those things or is at least told not to.

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So therefore,

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we have a child who is trying to figure out,

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you've said,

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I

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have

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the ability to be in charge in here.

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You said,

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I'm the boss.

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Well,

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does that mean that I get to say these things that

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I know usually are not

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accepted?

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That's one kind of the testing,

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the boundary testing.

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I think the other kind of testing is relational testing.

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I don't know,

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you didn't mention how many sessions you are in with him.

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But

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We understand that kids also want to make

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sure that the unconditional love and acceptance.

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Carries over no matter what happens.

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So often what they do is they will do things purposefully to see,

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are you still going to love me?

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Are you still going to accept me?

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Are you going to reach a point where you say,

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OK,

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you can't come play here anymore,

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are you going to give up on them?

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Are you going to abandon them?

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It's relational testing at times.

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That's a very important factor to consider as well.

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Testing in both capacities.

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The boundary testing and relational testing is another consideration.

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Also,

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you have shock value to consider.

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And

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obviously saying butt is not really all that shocking,

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but to a 5 year old it might be,

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but this would also carry over to kids who come in the room and

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cuss and I know we've talked about that on other episodes before as well.

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You have kids that are trying to get a reaction.

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And they've learned

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and or have been conditioned

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that when I say certain things and I bring certain

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topics up and certain words come out of my mouth,

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even actions sometimes.

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I,

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I think behaviors get lumped into this as well.

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You know,

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if I walk up and smack someone on the butt,

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I get a really big reaction.

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So what happens is it organically begins the first time,

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right?

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There's no intention.

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The first time a kid says butt out loud,

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they just are saying a word,

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but then when everyone giggles or everyone

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reacts or everyone goes,

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you cannot say that,

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or,

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well,

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now all of a sudden,

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oh look,

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I've gotten all kinds of attention from this.

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So shock value is another consideration.

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And I'm not sure if you think,

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Monica,

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that that's

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true in this case,

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but certainly a factor that needs to be worked into the

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Established the to establish the motivation.

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And then

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you also have grant and fantasy,

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what you can't grant in reality coming into play here.

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In

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every other scenario,

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there are probably

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chastisements,

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consequences.

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Maybe even punishments.

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There's some kind of negative outcome

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to him saying these things is my guess.

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At school for sure,

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probably at home.

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He probably gets told on if he says it somewhere else.

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There's probably all kinds of expectations of what he should and should not say.

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Well,

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the playroom

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provides something that no other environment provides,

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which is

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the ability to do things in there that you can't anywhere else.

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And

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The reality is,

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he

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can't say this anywhere else,

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doesn't have the freedom to.

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The fantasy element of the playroom is that he can.

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Often it is just I'm doing it because it's the only place.

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It's the only relationship,

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it's the only person,

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it's the only environment in which I can do this.

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Fantasy versus reality is a big factor

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in behaviors for kids.

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Because the playroom

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is a special place

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and their relationship with you

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is special.

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They are going to

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have to deal with

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the choice that they make in every other environment.

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And quite honestly,

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and Monica,

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I don't know how you feel about it.

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I mean,

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I know you're curious

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about what to do.

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I don't know if it bothers you in any way,

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and there are some therapists that have told me like that kind

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of stuff just bothers them and they almost always come out of

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the education system.

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So

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I think those that have been in schools for

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some reason this really gets out of their skin.

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I was a substitute teacher,

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but I know that doesn't count.

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It doesn't bother me.

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I just,

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I find it interesting that

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that's something

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for me,

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if a kid comes in and says

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stuff,

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whatever it is,

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I

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just,

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I'm pretty neutral,

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I guess.

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It,

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it,

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it's benign to me.

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It does not bother me one bit.

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And

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a lot of therapists then say,

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well,

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what are,

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what are we supposed to do in our response?

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So let's talk through that.

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The most helpful thing you can do is

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reflectively respond

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in

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a very standard way.

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So

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this was where it gets tricky though.

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You may not want to say the word butt.

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I,

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I wouldn't care.

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But for example,

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if a child cusses in the playroom,

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I would not want to reflect the content by using the cuss word back to the child.

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There are therapists that do it.

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I don't.

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That's my personal choice.

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Here's what I think is helpful.

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You just acknowledge that it was said,

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and whether or not you want to say the word or not,

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there's a workaround.

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So if he says,

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Gosh,

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what would a kid say about butt um.

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Oh,

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the poop's coming out of his butt

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and then giggles.

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I would just say,

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oh,

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the poop's coming out of his butt and you think that's funny.

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So,

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in that scenario,

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I would reflect content directly.

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If a child were to cuss,

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for example,

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I would not reflect the content directly.

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I would say that word.

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Or that,

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I'd say,

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oh,

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you said that in here.

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Or you said that word.

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All right,

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now,

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here's why we do this,

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because our response is supposed to be neutral and without judgment.

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If it's for shock value,

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if it's for relationship testing,

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if it's for fantasy versus reality in any of those three scenarios.

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There's a reaction that they're expecting.

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And when you neutrally respond without judgment.

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It doesn't serve the purpose

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that the child had in mind.

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When they don't get a reaction,

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when it doesn't fracture

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any of the boundaries or the relationship,

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and when they're like,

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oh,

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I really can say whatever I want in here,

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there's no need for them to continue to do it

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because they've done what they needed,

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which is to prove what they're able to do.

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So that's why we respond neutrally and without judgment.

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00:10:51,630 --> 00:10:52,500
So we just say it.

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00:10:53,229 --> 00:10:53,710
Oh,

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00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:57,280
You're saying words in here that you don't get to say anywhere else.

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00:10:58,489 --> 00:11:00,330
Just accept it for what it is and

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say that back to the child.

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It's very important.

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00:11:04,179 --> 00:11:04,460
Now,

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another option

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is to enlarge a little bit.

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00:11:08,140 --> 00:11:09,919
So you can just

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acknowledge what's happening,

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then you can also enlarge.

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So the enlargement might be,

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00:11:15,219 --> 00:11:17,409
it feels good to say words in here

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and there are no consequences.

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Or

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00:11:21,969 --> 00:11:25,239
You like having the control to say what you want in here,

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and you can't do that anywhere else.

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00:11:28,369 --> 00:11:29,359
That's an enlargement.

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And what you're doing is you're helping the child understand at a cognitive level,

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00:11:34,530 --> 00:11:35,719
why they're doing this.

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00:11:36,650 --> 00:11:39,239
They're just acting out of their emotions,

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00:11:39,609 --> 00:11:39,809
needs,

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desires,

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00:11:40,770 --> 00:11:41,489
wants,

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feelings,

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but the bridge is to help them understand

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00:11:46,090 --> 00:11:47,440
what's going on at a deeper level.

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So that's why we enlarge.

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00:11:49,289 --> 00:11:50,840
Now for a five year old Monica,

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00:11:51,179 --> 00:11:52,479
don't really go too

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00:11:52,690 --> 00:11:54,489
hog wild on the enlargements.

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00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:56,440
It's gonna be probably too much for him,

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00:11:56,570 --> 00:11:58,450
but you could certainly just acknowledge what he's doing.

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00:11:59,919 --> 00:12:02,859
And then our job is to remain neutral through it all.

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00:12:03,549 --> 00:12:04,989
So it doesn't impact us,

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00:12:05,109 --> 00:12:06,229
it doesn't unnerve us,

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00:12:06,349 --> 00:12:08,619
it doesn't create an emotional response in us.

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00:12:08,869 --> 00:12:11,280
We're just able to be neutral with it,

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and that is truly

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being child-centered.

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There's a reason why a child is doing it.

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00:12:17,179 --> 00:12:17,380
Let's,

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00:12:17,419 --> 00:12:19,099
let's be really clear on that.

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00:12:19,419 --> 00:12:22,450
If a child is saying something or doing something in the playroom,

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00:12:22,619 --> 00:12:24,030
it's because they need to.

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00:12:25,250 --> 00:12:28,539
We don't always have to understand what's going on at a deeper level,

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00:12:28,719 --> 00:12:31,260
but we know that if we trust them,

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00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:34,140
what they're doing is necessary for their work.

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00:12:34,469 --> 00:12:37,020
So every time he says the word butt and giggles,

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00:12:37,349 --> 00:12:40,400
there's something that he's working through when he's doing it.

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00:12:41,299 --> 00:12:44,599
And that will also help keep us in the right frame of mind

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00:12:45,010 --> 00:12:46,840
for the way that we respond.

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00:12:47,570 --> 00:12:47,890
Monica,

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00:12:48,010 --> 00:12:49,210
thanks so much for the question.

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00:12:49,330 --> 00:12:53,150
I hope that that's helpful for everyone because we all deal with that

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00:12:53,150 --> 00:12:55,599
kind of stuff that happens in the playroom from time to time.

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00:12:56,130 --> 00:12:56,840
So

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00:12:57,049 --> 00:12:58,729
thanks for hanging out with me today.

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Love you all.

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00:12:59,369 --> 00:13:00,179
We'll talk again soon.

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00:13:00,369 --> 00:13:00,609
Bye.

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00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,520
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:05,599
Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.