The Process of Storytelling w/ Malcolm D. Lee

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Calling all my sweeties to the forefront. I'm your host, Christopher, and this is a keeping positive, sweetish show. A sweeties, you already know what time it is.

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Speaker 2: It's your weekly dose of joy, a real talk and a little soul work.

00:00:17
Speaker 1: On the side.

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Speaker 2: I have been so excited about every single guest that we've had this season. We've had nothing but Jim's dropped every single episode and today will be no different. He is a writer, director, producer of work that has spanned over different generations. We all love his characters. We root for them, we've cried with them, and we've grown with them. You may know him from films like Best Man, Girls, Trip, Night School, His Family.

00:00:46
Speaker 1: Please give a very.

00:00:47
Speaker 2: Warm welcome to Malcolm d Lee. Malcolm, how are you feeling good?

00:00:53
Speaker 3: You fresh off the flight of glad?

00:00:57
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:00:57
Speaker 2: So this is the second stop on your book tour. Yeah, the first one was amazing. So I guess I got some big shoes to feel for tonight.

00:01:04
Speaker 4: Oh, you'll be fine.

00:01:05
Speaker 3: It's gonna because it's no pressure, you know, let's just let's just have a conversation.

00:01:09
Speaker 1: I love it.

00:01:10
Speaker 2: So let's everyone knows you from your Best Man film and the television series Girls Trip, which was one of my favorite Oh my gosh.

00:01:18
Speaker 1: And then I heard that may be doing another one. As soon as I heard, I was like, I need that.

00:01:24
Speaker 4: We're working on it, working on it.

00:01:25
Speaker 2: Yes, and Space Jam the legacy. People know you from that, but I want to know who Malcolm is.

00:01:30
Speaker 1: Where are you from?

00:01:31
Speaker 2: Tell us your journey to get to the best man that has a movie that we've all grown up to and watched for years.

00:01:38
Speaker 4: Yeah. I was born in Queens, New York. I was raised in Brooklyn.

00:01:44
Speaker 3: I grew up with both my parents and my brother and I for dominantly white private school since the fifth grade. From twelfth grade I went to and I was the only black male in my class.

00:02:00
Speaker 4: Uh from fifth to twelfth grade.

00:02:02
Speaker 3: Ended up going to Yeah, Yeah, it was it was interesting existence uh and then went to UH to Georgetown University undergrad went to n y U Film School.

00:02:15
Speaker 4: And always had a love for the fine and.

00:02:18
Speaker 3: Performing arts, you know, from a very early age. And what those you know, prep schools did for me was exposed me to film and television, very early animation, video making. And I always like to act and write and draw, you know, create little scenarios with you know, action figures and things like that.

00:02:39
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's that's you know I grew up.

00:02:42
Speaker 3: I grew up like, you know, like that, and you know, participating in many different arts endeavors, and you know, I think it was certainly encouraged by my family. I think they kind of said, let me explore, Like you know, my mom would put me in art classes and and things like that. And she was a medical records administrator. She transitioned to be a college professor later on. My my father was a school teacher and musician.

00:03:11
Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, and so we grew up in a limestone in Crown Heights, Brooklyn.

00:03:20
Speaker 1: Very nice.

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Speaker 4: I love that.

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Speaker 2: So wow, it's similar to me in my childhood. I grew up predominantly white community, was one of the few black kids from kindergarten all the way to the twelfth grade, and then moved to d C. You went to Georgetown. That's when I was like, WHOA, a whole new world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: I mean even going to Georgetown like that was more black people than I'd been around in my life. And then it was Howard was right across the you know, right across town. So yeah, if I wanted to you know see more I can, I can, I can, you know, experience, and it was all at the time it was still known as Chocolate City.

00:03:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: So yeah, I would say primarily good, good, happy childhood, you know, pretty well adjusted and you know, kind of felt like I knew what I wanted to do when I was undergrad I mean I got to work with my cousin Spike.

00:04:11
Speaker 4: Very early Spike Lee' that's my cousin. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you know that bline all right.

00:04:18
Speaker 4: Now, you know. Yeah, So I got to work with him very early on.

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Speaker 3: He was in film school in the early eighties and living in my parents' basement.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

00:04:28
Speaker 3: And so I got to see very early on the emergence of the you know, great American and now world renowned filmmaker who I didn't know what time was going to be that right, and but he demonstrated that it was possible to have a career in this industry. And you know, I got to work with him really from She's Got to Have It On through Malcolm X and Clockers and Girls six and so that was you know, great education and a great encouragement from him to you know, uh, be creative and right black film and you know and and and really kind of demonstrating how powerful the moving image was, particularly when it came to black people. So it's not something you we that should be taken lightly because that you know, movies, television shape attitudes and culture and uh and can affect people's views of.

00:05:29
Speaker 4: You know, humanity. So I've always taken that very seriously.

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Speaker 3: In the in the legacy that that my family has come from, it has very much been that. You know, my father's side of the family, he had six brothers and sisters and they all went to HBCUs they all played instruments. The instruments skipped my generation. I don't play anything but the radio. And so you know, uh, that was a legacy that that that that that was that I came from. Education was important and because they had seen one filmmaker come out of the basement, they were like, now, you know, why don't you pursue that?

00:06:07
Speaker 4: And you know, and I was encouraged to do.

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Speaker 2: So, okay, I love that. That is fascinating. Wow, So Spike Lee is in your basement. I wanted to ask you, growing up around predominantly white people and in a predominantly white community, where did you find the inspiration to write the way you write for our culture and our community because it is it hits home every single time.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you, well, you know, I was living my neighborhood that I live than was black, you know, and I you know, I'd play ball, you know, down at the local playground, you know, and there's plenty of you know.

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Speaker 4: I play a black experience.

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Speaker 3: And it was like that was that was like the duality that I was living, you know, like you know, being you know black, you know, trying to be black enough for my from my neighborhood, and trying to be you know, at least a model minority for the white folks, you know.

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 3: That was the kind of the the you know this you know you talk about coach switching. That was doing that very very ry on. But you know what what it afforded me and what it allowed me to think was like, you know, I saw you know a lot of different size of the world, you know, Jewish kids, Christian kids, boss speak kids, whatever, and you know, you know, and also wealthy kids. And so have an experience that not only in fifth through twelfth grade, but also in college gave me a wealth of experience. And then also going to college. You see different kinds of black people too, right, Like, so like brothers from Texas and Atlanta and from California, and you know, the DC area, and there's lots of different dialects and lots of different you know way you know, more rains and ware people speak. So you know, I observed all of that and became friends with lots of different kinds of people and different kinds of black people, which you know, and and my experiences that yours sound.

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Speaker 4: Definitely influenced and was inspired.

00:07:58
Speaker 3: By my relationships that I made it at Georgetown. And so what I was finding, particularly in movies about black people or not even about black that had black people in it, you know, it was very.

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Speaker 4: Kind of.

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Speaker 3: Very very narrow depictions, yes, right, you know, so there was the you know, there's the hood brother, there's the quirky friend, or there's always the sassy girlfriend, and it's like and then particularly when it came to educated brothers, they just like forgot they were black. They had no cultural specificity of blackness, so they would like check their atnicity of the door. And that's somehow that meant because you're educated, you're speaking the King's English, you are you know one way, you have a bat up year behind and you're just like, you know, you just you aspire to be white, right, which is like not my experience and not these parents are the people that I went to school with. So I was like, this is not this is not real or not authentic to me. And so I drew all my experiences to create characters that I thought were more authentically you know, presented, and you know, movies that preceded The Best Man, like Loved Jones and Soul Food even waiting to exhale at least for the women you know, were true were depictions of the black people that I interacted with.

00:09:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.

00:09:31
Speaker 2: Take us to when the idea of Best Man came.

00:09:37
Speaker 1: Where were you?

00:09:39
Speaker 4: It's an interesting question. Now. I had done after film school, I'm sorry, before film school.

00:09:47
Speaker 3: In between film school and undergrad, I went to do a screenwriting program at Disney. I got a fellowship. I wrote two scripts, my first two screenplays there. When I went to film school, did a couple of shorts. I wrote three more screenplays. That fifth one I was determined to make right. It was called Feast and Famine. It was a romantic comedy, very much in the vein of like an Annie Hall or When Harry Met Sally, a classic New York love story.

00:10:17
Speaker 4: And you know, I wanted to make the movie.

00:10:20
Speaker 3: I was trying to raise money for it, and so when I couldn't do that independently.

00:10:27
Speaker 4: It was really difficult.

00:10:28
Speaker 3: And I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna write something so commercial that I'm going to sell it, and I'm going to use the money that I sell that with to make Feast and Famine.

00:10:41
Speaker 4: And that script was the best man.

00:10:43
Speaker 3: And so I was in the midst of writing it and I was just like, oh, I can direct this, but and I will say I knew how it was going to be commercial. Was I knew that there was, you know, a dearth of movies about black or a wedding, right, like the wedding movies are very popular at the time. And so I was like, Okay, I got to do a movie, a wedding movie with black people in it. And because I hadn't been one to date at that time, and I love ensemble movies, and I wanted to have a very clear react structure, and there was built in set pieces your bachelor party, you're the fellows hanging out one night, the rehearsal dinner, the you know one all and the wedding itself, and then I knew that was going to have a magic prop in there that was which was the book that keeps getting passed around.

00:11:39
Speaker 4: So I.

00:11:41
Speaker 3: Made sure that I had all of the the elements of you know, a commercial movie before I wrote it.

00:11:50
Speaker 4: And so I wrote it. I was like, Okay, this.

00:11:52
Speaker 1: Feels right awesome.

00:11:53
Speaker 2: Now how long did it take from writing The Best Man to it actually getting green lid?

00:12:00
Speaker 4: Remember finishing the script?

00:12:02
Speaker 3: It was, you know, I was up early one morning and I was and I just finished it and I was in my parents' basement.

00:12:08
Speaker 4: I walked upstairs, said this ain't it.

00:12:11
Speaker 3: I don't know what they want. And I was going to be like, either become a teacher or go to law school. And because you know what what I was trying to make, they weren't trying to make, and so I am I would say that was I knew I want. What I wanted to do was time it. I'm trying to remember now. I wanted to time the finishing the script by the time the movie's Soul Food came out.

00:12:36
Speaker 4: Got it now.

00:12:37
Speaker 3: Also being strategic about how I was going to approach it, and I thought if Soul Food would was going to be successful cause I had read about, you know, the movie in a trade magazine and I remember thinking, yeah, like it's even though what I'm writing is not soul food, They'll be looking for the next soul food type of things that where black people are just doing, We're doing more than just you know, being in the hood and running from danger, you know what I mean. So I was like, Okay, if this movie is successful with Nea Long and Vivoca Fox and Vanessa Williams and Babyface is going to be doing a soundtrack, this could do well.

00:13:18
Speaker 4: And if that does well, that would bode well for my script. So I was done with it by the time Soul Foods.

00:13:28
Speaker 3: Premiered at Urban World in New York and I think that was fall of or late summer of ninety eight, no ninety seven, Sorry, And then we went around to a couple of different studios.

00:13:39
Speaker 4: Spike had read it. He was like, this is the this is the one. Wow.

00:13:42
Speaker 3: And so we met with Columbia. He had a deal there at the time. It's a funny story behind that, but I'll get to that later. Then then I would say. That was late mid fall, and then by the time the Academy Awards came around, me landed at Universal Wow in March of ninety eight, and they.

00:14:09
Speaker 4: Said, we like this, we want to try to developing and make it. Wow.

00:14:14
Speaker 2: How did that feel in that moment when they said finally Well, it.

00:14:17
Speaker 3: Was funny because it was It's not that it doesn't happen like that, because what happens is because in fact, the first few students we went to they were like, we like it, but it's not for us, right, yeah, we don't need to do some development. And Spike is being who he is, it's like, all right, later for y'all, we're going someplace else. So I'm like, uh, maybe we should listen, but he was like, nope, we're gonna find somebody.

00:14:43
Speaker 4: This is this movie is gonna get made. It's okay, fine.

00:14:46
Speaker 3: So we go to Universal and he says, okay, look, we're gonna tell them they got to pay you for it. If they want to do any notes, they gonna pay for we right, and they don't like it, but taking it away, I said, great, so we're gonna listen to their notes.

00:14:59
Speaker 4: So that's what happens.

00:14:59
Speaker 3: So you know there was there were notes and they said, here's a little money, and and at first I was excited, but when you get like the money that they offer, it's great. But like you see where Uncle Sam really comes in and just I was like, that's what I'm that's that's what I got. Okay, but fine. I was living in my parents' basement.

00:15:22
Speaker 4: It was all fine.

00:15:24
Speaker 3: And did the rewrite and in about two months and then I was green Lid.

00:15:29
Speaker 4: Wow.

00:15:29
Speaker 3: So that was exciting. The night that that that that I found out that we were green Lid.

00:15:35
Speaker 4: At a budget.

00:15:36
Speaker 3: I think we were asking for seven or eight and they said you can have it for nine. Oh wow, yeah, because they looked at it and you're gonna need nine and then we actually needed more, but we were like great, So that was exciting.

00:15:48
Speaker 4: Various. I remember where I was. I was in I was in New York.

00:15:52
Speaker 3: My girlfriend who's my who's my wife at the now, and and another couple and we just came from a restaurant and uh, I got the Did I have a cell phone then or was it a beeper? I don't, I'm I'm front remember I was on a payphone for I was on a cell phone. I think it was a cell phone now, yeah, And I got a call from my executive at the studio says, yep, you're you're greenlit.

00:16:21
Speaker 4: Let's go. We're best man. Though we did, we did become them one of the box office.

00:16:27
Speaker 1: How much of that one gross? After getting for nine million?

00:16:29
Speaker 3: Then you years first weekend it made it's a budget back and then it grossed about thirty four or thirty five million.

00:16:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, And that's a huge.

00:16:38
Speaker 4: It was big. It was big. It was very big.

00:16:40
Speaker 1: Was that even for that time for a black film?

00:16:42
Speaker 4: Oh, it was very big.

00:16:44
Speaker 3: Even the fact that we were number one that weekend was shoote yeah, I mean no, nobody makes nobody gets nine million dollars and like, oh you're number one.

00:16:53
Speaker 4: That's unheard of today. It'd be like yeah, whatever dollars. But it was.

00:16:58
Speaker 3: And we beat out Fight Club and Martin Scorsese movie and this this very popular movie that.

00:17:08
Speaker 4: Actually Judd had done called Double Jeffardy. Yeah yeah, yeah, so it was it was, it was. It was a great, great story.

00:17:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did that shift?

00:17:19
Speaker 2: Like where you were in your life at that point?

00:17:22
Speaker 4: It was everything? Man?

00:17:23
Speaker 3: Like I was like that was that that? After you become what I like to say, is the prom queen. Everybody wants to dance, right, everybody wants to meet. Everybody wants to, you know, like, you know, give you projects. They all want to say, hey, would you consider this? YadA YadA YadA. So it was it was pretty fantastic. And you you know, your head can get you know, swollen and blow up and stuff and you and again, you know, I'm young, I'm like just new to this business. But when you start getting accolades and you think, oh my stuff, don't think I'm good. Oh yeah, I mean it's impossible not to write at whatever age you are, or when you're first coming in the business. You know, it's tough to like, you know, navigate all that absolutely because they will.

00:18:15
Speaker 4: They will.

00:18:16
Speaker 3: I'm sure you've heard the saying they'll build you up and they'll tear you down, and it happens, you know, and sometimes I could be your own doing.

00:18:24
Speaker 4: Like I wanted to be an author. I wanted to be a writer director.

00:18:27
Speaker 3: So if they were coming to me with a script that they were like, well, we'd love you to direct this, I'd be like, well, I didn't write that, so that's not I do better than that, you know, or if they want you to write something that you know, but they don't want you to direct it.

00:18:40
Speaker 4: I was just like, I'm not doing that either, But that's shortsighted.

00:18:46
Speaker 2: I learned that now, So now you would take the opportunity to like.

00:18:50
Speaker 3: Well now now I'm no, I'm post fifty now, so I'm just like, now I'm gonna do what I want. But at that age you have to be much more malleable. You have to feel like you got to you gotta kind of, you know, look at the entire landscape and you know, because what is popular today, what is working now, ain't gonna work in a couple of years, right, So you have to like really kind of read the tea leaves. You have to like, you know, learn to say, well, maybe I can do something with this.

00:19:21
Speaker 4: I mean, at a.

00:19:22
Speaker 3: Certain points, you got you know, there's something that they'll give you to be like, I don't know what the heck I'm gonna do with this, right, But I think that's the balance, right of trying to figure out, you know, one's career. But at the same time, it's like if you don't go through certain things, you're not gonna.

00:19:39
Speaker 2: Learn absolutely absolutely you said, what works now may not work ten years from now. You created years from now, right, but you actually created something back then that still works today. How does it feel that you created something that is still so relevant and resonates from me being in my teens at that time to me being a adult where I can watch it and still like, oh my goodness, I still get it.

00:20:04
Speaker 3: You know, I feel very fortunate. You know, my intention, this is no there is no lie. My intention in making The Best Man was to make a classic, to make a movie that you know, would stay in the test of time, that would resonate for decades and generations. And thankfully that happened, you know, thanks to I mean, I think a large part to the where the script. You know, where we started with the script. You know, I wrote a good script and it was the right script at the right time.

00:20:30
Speaker 4: You know a lot of times when when when you know films.

00:20:33
Speaker 3: The zeit guys, they're like, oh, like that strikes a nerve and it's nostalgia, you know, from then on, so people can't really see any other thing.

00:20:43
Speaker 4: And so that was the intention.

00:20:45
Speaker 3: Was never the intention to do a sequel, or do a television series or now even a book.

00:20:52
Speaker 4: You know, it was just like, let me just make a movie that's.

00:20:54
Speaker 3: Gonna that's be a one off, because I don't want to I did not want to repeat myself second time around, you know what I mean. So when you know, so there was talk of a sequel very early on, but I was like, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be a one trick pony, and these characters need to live some life. I need to live some life before I decide I want to tackle this again.

00:21:18
Speaker 4: So it just so happened that, you know, as they would have it.

00:21:21
Speaker 3: And as I said, around twenty ten twenty eleven, business for me was very slow. And what was the big thing then branding? What was my brand? The Best Man? Everyone knew that I had done four of the movies, but they weren't as popular or as you know, kind of like memorable as The Best Man.

00:21:43
Speaker 4: And I was like, I think it's time to start doing it. And I started like doing little.

00:21:49
Speaker 3: Notes and things on the sequel for years at that, but never really committing to paper.

00:21:55
Speaker 4: And I was like, Okay, now's the time to try to do a sequel.

00:21:58
Speaker 3: And I pitched it to the cast and they were like, let's do it.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you look back from over the years and you see the impact that you that you've made on our community, what is a part of your legacy that means the most to you?

00:22:12
Speaker 4: You know?

00:22:13
Speaker 3: Look, I love that black folks in particular love these depictions, right like it is my mission. I firmly believe it is my mission on earth to show the humanity of black people and to normalize black life in America. You know, I've always wanted to tell a universal story with black people. They all experienced the same human emotions, you know, and so with this's all though the stories are very universal, there's a lot of cultural specificity, and I always want to.

00:22:51
Speaker 4: Do that with my work.

00:22:53
Speaker 3: And I'm glad that people get it. It resonates people, you know, feel it in here. They don't just you know, laugh and smile and cry whatever like that. It's it's a part of who they are and their you know, their their DNA and you know that that it that it resonates.

00:23:11
Speaker 4: And it's great that you.

00:23:12
Speaker 3: Know, every time Candy from Cameo comes on, everybody does the electric slid.

00:23:17
Speaker 4: I find that pretty amazing.

00:23:19
Speaker 2: Right for sure. I love that when it comes to your creative process. Do you wait on something to spark or what what moves you? And then how do you really go through that whole process When it comes to writing.

00:23:31
Speaker 3: It's it's a mixed bag, you know, and I would say it's changed, it's evolved over the years, you know. Sometimes you know, I wait when I'm writing something, I'm like, oh, you gotta wait till the mus hits me. Around three o'clock is when the music is going to hit me and play a visit and I can start, you know, really getting creative. But then it gets to a point where you realize, like this is a job, and you know you're always going to write the crappy draft. You have to write the happy you have to because you have to. You got to get to the end. Because screenwriting and I'm and now I've found.

00:24:07
Speaker 4: Out a novel. Writing it's all about rewriting, you know.

00:24:11
Speaker 3: You got to get to the end and then look back and say, okay, oh that's terrible.

00:24:15
Speaker 4: Oh well that's not so bad, and that's it, and then you just make it better.

00:24:19
Speaker 2: You find enjoying that process huh.

00:24:26
Speaker 4: Yeah. Sometimes, oh sometimes it's fantastic.

00:24:29
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's like I find myself laughing when things things are are are supposed to be funny. I find myself crying when when they're when they're emotional, you know, Yeah, it's it's so that's very joyous, you know, but it's hard.

00:24:47
Speaker 4: It's a hard problem to get there, right.

00:24:49
Speaker 3: But the thing I have to keep my mind of, you guys got to keep plowing forward. And even if you're gonna not write what's you know, the the story that you're working on, you got to write something you have to, like, you know, I've learned recently from a writer friend of mine, like just at the beginning.

00:25:10
Speaker 4: Of the day, start your brain dump.

00:25:12
Speaker 3: You know, I meditate first, I do a meditation and then you try to try to clear my mind and then go ahead and write.

00:25:22
Speaker 4: What's all my brain, what's on my head?

00:25:24
Speaker 3: So I can just get rid of that and then okay, now I can get back to the page of it, right and then like just and it ain't gonna be great. It might be great, it might not be And some days are better than others.

00:25:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I think that's with everything you talked about. For some years, there was a time where it was really slow for you. What were those moments like when you realize you had to play the long game, and it wasn't just gonna come like you thought like it was coming to nineteen ninety nine.

00:25:51
Speaker 3: That was a long game too, you know. I mean I knew I wanted to be a Bombers this time I was nineteen. So by the time I was twenty five, and then in my third year of film school, I was like, this ain't working like I you know, John Singleton made Boys in the Hood by the time he was twenty two. Orson Wells made Citizen King by twenty five, Like what am I doing?

00:26:12
Speaker 1: Wow?

00:26:12
Speaker 4: Right?

00:26:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it is a long and you have to just you know, what I've learned is you have to be a little patient. You have to have perseverance, stick toitiveness, you know, and then like I said, you gotta if something comes along. Sometimes it's ridiculous. My age will give me a script and I'm like, they want to make this?

00:26:35
Speaker 4: What? What? What?

00:26:37
Speaker 1: Why do they huh?

00:26:39
Speaker 3: And so I remember there was one script there was a star that was circling it and he was like a supposed to be a Kirk Franklin type, right, and he's like.

00:26:52
Speaker 4: You know, he was very much kind of a task master and not a good guy.

00:26:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he ends up in purgatory.

00:27:02
Speaker 4: He gets into the car accident in the purgatory and they're like, well.

00:27:05
Speaker 3: You can go to either heaven or Hell, or you can go back to this little white town and teach these white people gospel music.

00:27:14
Speaker 1: And I was like, they want to make this.

00:27:16
Speaker 3: They want to make this. They're like yeah. I was like, they want to make this. And so like you get those things happy, you know, and during those dry patches, it's like you just got to try, you know, to reinvent yourself, like I. And during that time, that's when I started to move towards television.

00:27:36
Speaker 4: I'd written a specscript that didn't get.

00:27:38
Speaker 3: Sold, and then I said, okay, let me say I can make it a tell television show. And that kept me aflip for a bit because I was able to turn televis show and get a little bit of money.

00:27:46
Speaker 4: And then that's when I came up when with the branding.

00:27:49
Speaker 3: Thing with Best Man Holiday, and after that I was like, I ain't saying no to nothing, but when when a script comes in and it's they want me to do it, and it's going and the train's about to leave the station, all right, give me a week or two and I'll just go and do it, because you can't. You can't just squadw these opportunities when you're hot. You gotta like, you know, keep hopping on it. But at the same time, you have to have a life balance as well.

00:28:14
Speaker 1: Right, let's talk about that.

00:28:15
Speaker 4: It's it's it's it's not.

00:28:17
Speaker 3: It's just funny too, because you know, my wife keeps me in check very much, you know, in terms of like making sure that I'm present, right, And at the same time, she's like, yo, you got to go make that money too, right, And I remember, it's so funny. I had just done Girls Trip and it was it wasn't coming out yet, but they had tremendous buzz, right, and Universal wanted to make this movie Night School with Kevin Hart. And I was like, and they gave me a script and I I read it twice. I fell asleep and I'm like, I can't do this, Like this is not a good script, right, And but they were like, oh, this is very important to the studio and blah blah, blah blah.

00:28:55
Speaker 4: They were gonna make it.

00:28:55
Speaker 3: And I was just like, and I talked over my wife and she was like, well, look, you gotta do what you feel, right, And they were gonna pay me, you know.

00:29:03
Speaker 4: A good salary.

00:29:04
Speaker 3: But I was like, you know, grocery was so hard on a very hard year, between grocery and barbershop, and I'm not gonna do it. I tell Will Packer, Uh, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna pass.

00:29:16
Speaker 4: And I hung up the phone.

00:29:17
Speaker 3: I was in my office and I called my wife and she was like, I said, yeah, I passed. She's like all that money, huh. I was like, but you said call my heart, I said, call him back. So I called back. I was like, yeah, yeah, yah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got calling back.

00:29:39
Speaker 1: I mean, that is the layer. This is one like that was saying when she says one thing, but she really means another.

00:29:47
Speaker 3: No, actually, you know she she just you know again, she keeps me checking like you know, it's it's it's all about checks and balance. It's like, okay, you know, think about it, but what is it gonna mean long term?

00:29:59
Speaker 4: Right?

00:30:00
Speaker 3: And again when you when you say no. And that was the other thing too. Having done that movie that was very important to the studio. I got my deal at the studio. There's a whole the relationships that are very important that needs preserved and cultivated. So it's that's the long game.

00:30:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, did that in turn that deal with them? Did that in turn help you with the Peacock deal?

00:30:27
Speaker 3: For I was already in a a I'm sorry, A television deal with Universal Television Studio is different.

00:30:37
Speaker 4: But I've deal with with both of them right now. So it's I'm one of their soldiers.

00:30:43
Speaker 1: Love it, love it. That's working out good for you.

00:30:45
Speaker 4: See, it could be better, but you know, I.

00:30:49
Speaker 2: Think that's let's talk about that to just a state of Hollywood. You know, we had the writers had a strike, then that actors had a strike, and then transfer they almost had a strike.

00:31:01
Speaker 1: How has that one affected you?

00:31:04
Speaker 2: And then when you say it could be better, I think everybody in the industry feels like that's their answer, it could be better.

00:31:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's a tough time right now, I think, especially in the past two years, and then you know, if you even count the pandemic, you know before that that was very, very tough. A lot of people are losing jobs. The industry is shrinking, especially after the writer's track. There it is, it is, it's it's a business. Contracting it and this happens, it goes through ebbs and flows yes, and so I would say that, yeah, I mean it's it's it's a tough time and they're very much running scared. You know, they're not just saying yes to everything. They're not you know, like taking chances on a lot of things. Right, they want the shore fire thing. There's no such thing, by the way, but they're relying very much on intellectual property that's.

00:31:54
Speaker 4: Been successful in the past.

00:31:56
Speaker 1: Right.

00:31:56
Speaker 3: So that's why you see it in the Jurassic Park being made mission impossible being you know, if you know that there they fail, people are going to go to those people are going to.

00:32:04
Speaker 4: Show up, you know.

00:32:06
Speaker 3: So that's what we're We're doing that and a number of other things that we're trying to do. Original content, trying to do you know, you know things like like you know, book adaptations to to.

00:32:18
Speaker 4: The screen and things like that too.

00:32:19
Speaker 3: So you know, if it has a follow up, if it has a built an audience, it's easier.

00:32:24
Speaker 4: For them to say yes.

00:32:25
Speaker 1: Right.

00:32:26
Speaker 3: But even that, you know, the development process, finding the right writer, finding the right producer, finding the right actors, find the right talent, trying to find the you know, the schedules that will line up.

00:32:36
Speaker 4: It's not easy.

00:32:37
Speaker 1: It's not It's so true. Yeah, it's true.

00:32:39
Speaker 2: Talk about book adaptations, one of the questions we all had was like, is he gonna make turn this book into a series? Because he knows you're gonna do three books, three books. This is the first one of the three. How is the writing process for a script and a book different?

00:32:58
Speaker 3: I think, you know, they're similar in that you you've got to have character, you have to have story. You got the right scenes, you have the right dialogue, you have.

00:33:10
Speaker 4: To create a world. However, with a screenplay, it's.

00:33:14
Speaker 3: A lot more contained and a lot more restrictive. But something great can come out of that. Right. But you you have that that classic three act structure with your you know, inciting incident and your engine that pulls you through the second act and you know the the Daniel Mall and the third act crisis or the end of second act crisis and then the resolution and all these are these are part of movie low. You have to do these things, you know, they're they're they're exceptions to that rule.

00:33:53
Speaker 4: But with a book, you can kind of take your time a little bit. There's a lot more expansive story telling that goes on.

00:34:02
Speaker 3: You get into these characters brains and psychees, and get.

00:34:06
Speaker 4: To know them on an intimate level.

00:34:08
Speaker 3: I mean, people think they know, you know, Harper, Robin and Jordan, but they don't know some of their backstory, their upbringing, They don't know where they where they came from. Really, you know, they might have some idea, but and what they're there thinking is I mean, you only tell what they're thinking when they tell you what they're thinking, right, they say it on television show or a movie or if they're doing voiceover.

00:34:31
Speaker 4: But with the book, you're able.

00:34:32
Speaker 3: To to get into their subconscious You're able to also take advantage of all kinds of the sense, all the senses, you know, the touch.

00:34:41
Speaker 4: The feel, the seed, and hearing, the taste. So you know it. It's a fantastic, more expansive way of storytelling.

00:34:53
Speaker 2: Absolutely what made you say it is time to write a book?

00:34:57
Speaker 3: I love the written word from you know early on and fantasized about writing a novel. Really yeah, because you know, right, my screenplays I've always been too long, right, Like you know, I remember my first draft of the Best Man was like one hundred and.

00:35:16
Speaker 4: Thirty five pages.

00:35:17
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, and the studio was like, you got to cut this down. So, you know, I played with fonts and stuff and got it down to one twenty big mistake.

00:35:25
Speaker 4: Once they reset that thing.

00:35:26
Speaker 3: They were like, oh my god, you've got to cut this. And I was like, oh, well, you know, so I like having the you know, the breath of storytelling in writing a novel, so like that was a beautiful process. And I got to, you know, collaborate with a co writer named Jane Allen.

00:35:45
Speaker 4: Yes, and she was established in the world.

00:35:47
Speaker 3: I I, you know, I hadn't you know, had that opportunity, and I knew I wasn't gonna be able to do it myself. I do have a day job, and so I, you know, I said, well, I want to try this thing, you know how it could potentially work, but it was it was time and also time to do it with this these characters, and this was the This was a kind of an easy Foray, or an easier Foray than to create characters from whole cloth. There was a backstory that existed, there's the characters that existed. There were circumstances that you know, people were familiar with and even those people who aren't familiar with it, I think can still vibe with the with the with the storytelling that goes on here.

00:36:20
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean it was it was time to do it, and I knew that.

00:36:24
Speaker 3: You know, it would be incredibly difficult to mount another television show or movie with the storytelling that I wanted to do, and to get all those actors back together, it would be very difficult. So I was like, well, let me, let me give this a shot and try it. And because the fans wanted more, you know, from these characters, I thought we were done after final chapters. And I think it was mainly because of how difficult it was to wrangle everybody and get the studio to a pre you know, this budget, and it's.

00:37:03
Speaker 4: Just not easy. Yeah.

00:37:04
Speaker 2: Oh man, So does that mean we may not get any more final chapters?

00:37:08
Speaker 3: Because right there written, you'll have it there and and it's a very cinematic experience. You know, people are really going to this is a deeper look at these characters than we've ever experienced before.

00:37:21
Speaker 1: I will say that we talked about this too.

00:37:24
Speaker 2: When you read a book and then you go watch the TV or film adaptation, the book is always better.

00:37:29
Speaker 1: So I'm excited to really die there.

00:37:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, look, when you're reading a book, you have what you envision for, right, and there's there's probably millions of people's interpretations of you know.

00:37:43
Speaker 4: What that is.

00:37:44
Speaker 3: But when you're watching a movie television show, that's one person's vision, right. It's a director or the writer, maybe maybe five people's vision of what that thing should be. And then you have a bunch of other people like costume designers and you know, directors of atography and uh, you know, production designers that are all going to like put their their stamp on it as well. So it's a collaborative process, whereas the book is a singular experience, you know, for the reader and for the writer.

00:38:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, which one do you enjoy better?

00:38:18
Speaker 4: If you had?

00:38:21
Speaker 3: I definitely enjoyed this, and I enjoyed the screenwriting process too, you know when it's when.

00:38:27
Speaker 4: It's flowing hard, this is tough. I mean, I like them both.

00:38:35
Speaker 3: I like the creative process, and you know, especially you know in television and in you know, in this case with the with the with the book, I had a collaborator and you know, and and you know, in the the television writers, so it's always good to like, you know, get input, and that's that generates good, healthy discussion, and that generates ideas. When you're you know, singular and writing your own screenplay, that's great also, and I do enjoy.

00:39:03
Speaker 4: That too, but you know, I love that.

00:39:05
Speaker 2: What part of being a storyteller do you think that people don't get to see? We see the finished outcome, and we see everything that you do on TV, but we don't really see the ins and outs. What is something that you could share with us that we really don't get to see.

00:39:20
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's it's it's a lonely process.

00:39:23
Speaker 3: Wow, it's it's it is you know, it's a singular, you know, process that requires discipline and perseverance, and because every day is not going to be a banner day when you write something, you know, even oh.

00:39:38
Speaker 4: My god, that sucks. Why who would who even cares that about.

00:39:43
Speaker 3: These characters I've got I've got to an the screenplay being like, who's gonna care?

00:39:47
Speaker 4: Right?

00:39:48
Speaker 3: And but then you guys say, okay, wait a minute, you wrote it for a reason, the idea was it with inspiration behind it?

00:39:53
Speaker 4: Okay, so what's good about it? And so it's lonely. It's uh, it's it's it's takes.

00:40:00
Speaker 3: It takes a lot of discipline because no one's just telling you like, oh, like you've got to reach this many pages in a day, right, I mean, if you're getting paid you you know you do you are supposed to like, you know, hit some deadlines and that's a lot of pressure.

00:40:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know it doesn't always you know, work like that.

00:40:19
Speaker 2: When you say discipline, can you take us through a day with Malcolm d Lee, like what that discipline looks like? Because I'm sure some people don't even understand the discipline it takes to be a storyteller.

00:40:30
Speaker 1: What does it look like from your lens?

00:40:32
Speaker 4: You know, every screenplay has been different, you know.

00:40:35
Speaker 3: You first, you can't just start writing interior, you know Max's house day, you know, set in the scene.

00:40:43
Speaker 4: You have to like do pieces. You do a lot of pre writing. You have to like who's this character? What does he? Where does he come from? Or where does she come from? What does he like? What's the what you know?

00:40:54
Speaker 3: And so character first, That's where I always start with character.

00:40:59
Speaker 4: And just you know, try to like first, what's what story are you telling? Right? And then how is and and what's the interaction going to be is.

00:41:06
Speaker 3: It what's the tone? Is it a comedy, is it a dramaa is it a drama? Is it a tragedy? You know, Uh, you have to figure out tone, character, story, plot, uh, inciting incident, you know, what's and what's going to keep this going?

00:41:24
Speaker 4: Like why why why are we going to be watching or or or reading? You know.

00:41:30
Speaker 3: So there's a lot that goes into it, and some of it at this point I think it's a little bit intuitive.

00:41:36
Speaker 4: Other other things are just that they take some some discussion or.

00:41:40
Speaker 3: You know, looking, uh, reading other things, like reading other books, doing research. You know, for instance, in this book here, we have a huge section of it that takes place in Ghana. Yes, and you know, I had to go there for ten days to like just get myself immersed in the culture, so I can speak authentically about what uh an American woman's.

00:42:10
Speaker 4: H experience might be there somebody trying to open a restaurant.

00:42:13
Speaker 1: That's good, that's good. How was that experience bring?

00:42:17
Speaker 4: I love I love Ghana. Yeah, you know, it's just very like.

00:42:22
Speaker 3: Traveling the world gives you a definitely a different perspective on America.

00:42:28
Speaker 4: And the world right, absolutely about like.

00:42:31
Speaker 3: Where we've come from, what was taken from us, what we've endured, it's it's it's it's and what's still going on.

00:42:42
Speaker 4: So it's eye opening.

00:42:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so good.

00:42:46
Speaker 2: When it comes to your book and you've grown with these characters, how do you approach them now as an adult different than what you did as a a twenty year old.

00:42:58
Speaker 4: It's interesting.

00:43:01
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, look, I I look at their commonalities and their and their humanity and what they're going what what are What did twenty year olds go through?

00:43:11
Speaker 4: Is all? You know?

00:43:12
Speaker 3: It was all the experience that I had, right, And then you know what would happen if, like you know, you've got kids and you know one of your friends was dying, Like, what is that going to be?

00:43:25
Speaker 4: Like what if on I'm having financial trouble? What is that? You know?

00:43:29
Speaker 3: What if what if the you know, this same group of friends has something you know that that that that comes up from there from your past that is affecting your future.

00:43:40
Speaker 4: So these are all.

00:43:41
Speaker 3: Questions you ask and the Okay, let's put it in the holidays and see what happens. Right, And so you know, the same thing with with the with the final chapters and with this book here you say, what's life like for you know, uh, post divorce, you know, for somebody who's very successful, like Harper is, who is like you know, a politicerprize winner. You know, he's financially independent. He's you know, not and kind of flushed with cash and like getting a little you know, he's outside, you know, you getting you know, trying to find companionship but it's not really working.

00:44:17
Speaker 4: What is it?

00:44:17
Speaker 3: What is life for life for for Jordan who's finally given up the grind and gone into self care? What does that look like for a woman who's you know, a black woman, a professional black woman who's approaching her fifties, you know, saying and and and what looked like for a woman who's raising they're very American child you know over in uh a crowd Ghana and trying to open a restaurant, and you know the little child is like, you know, having their own opinions and you know, becoming a teenager and dealing with that and you know, so and then new love and and rebirth and all these things that like we explore the in the novel, and then things that that have happen in the past that affect you now. So it's all you know, those are all themes that you just kind of like, you know, I want to tackle. And then on top of it, you know, I'm a better writer now than I was then. I know like what has to happen well and what the expectations are on where we're leading. But at the same time, you have to trust the material and the characters because they will tell you where it's gonna go.

00:45:26
Speaker 1: That's good, it's the truth.

00:45:27
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's I will say, same thing happened to the best man, the first best man that happened in this book.

00:45:34
Speaker 4: I was going along a path. I give you an example.

00:45:38
Speaker 3: Robin was never that's the Sia Lathan's character. She was never coming to the wedding in the original draft.

00:45:44
Speaker 4: Really, that's correct. It wasn't until we were we were doing I was doing the the rewrite for the.

00:45:51
Speaker 3: Studio, and you know, my producer was like, you know what if she came to the wedding, because all was gonna happen was Harper.

00:45:59
Speaker 4: Was gonna get his He's like his ass beat.

00:46:01
Speaker 3: He was gonna you know, have his his lesson learned and he was going to be like, you know what, I need to make a stronger commitment to my relationship.

00:46:08
Speaker 4: He goes home.

00:46:09
Speaker 3: He's trying to make a meal for Robb and he's messing it up and he's like, She's like what happens? And he's like, here, give it. He gives her a key to his place. It's nice, but it's not what it needed to be once she got there, and once you understood you must put pressure on your main character in order to see what they're going to do.

00:46:38
Speaker 4: That is how you tell story.

00:46:41
Speaker 3: It's conflict, it's you know, it's like okay, So I was like, God, what's going to happen right, you know?

00:46:47
Speaker 4: And you write it and say, oh, this is good, this is better. She does calm him down.

00:46:51
Speaker 3: She first, she's pissed off and she wants to leave, but he tells, I need you, please don't leave me.

00:46:57
Speaker 4: And that's a real thing. That was okay, Like she can help and she's the woman for you. Yeah, right, same thing in this. But I'm not gonna tell you the ending.

00:47:08
Speaker 3: But I was going along a path and Jane and I were talking and Chelsea, our editor, was like, well, this is the way, this is happening, and you know, you really got to think about what is what this choice and with that choice, and what he.

00:47:20
Speaker 4: Should do here and what she should do there. And I'm like, man, yeah, we got to do that. Yeah, because that makes sense. That's so good.

00:47:31
Speaker 1: I love that. How much of your storytelling mirrors your life?

00:47:36
Speaker 4: Well some elements, yes, but not not a ton.

00:47:43
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I'm going through, you know, things that like a lot of these characters going through like midlife metamorphosis, you know, like what my body is changing?

00:47:54
Speaker 4: Like you know, yeah, uh, you know do it? I do feel like like the best I felt that in years.

00:48:00
Speaker 3: But at the same time, like your body's like you ain't you ain't twenty five no more, you ain't forty, you know, and so like and you see friends who you know, we have friends who have were together for a long time, they got divorced, especially around this age.

00:48:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's a reflection for sure that we're seeing, you know. Fortunately, unlike Harper, I am still married.

00:48:21
Speaker 3: Amen, And you know, I'm I'm as much as as I've been on the grind and want to be on the grind and know the grand might want to push for the grind, like you know, I like Jordan has trying to find like a balance, right, So like that's been you know, uh healthy as well, just trying to you know, figure all those things out. And you know, Robin being in Ghana, I get that. I get that she's like a she chose choosing herself. She chose herself, and she chose her happiness and she wasn't going to be you know, supportive of a man that wasn't going to give a reciprocal a reciprocy intidents the relationship.

00:49:06
Speaker 4: And so you know, I don't know.

00:49:10
Speaker 3: If I fans Has about being a Ghana, but when I was there, I was like, should I do this? Maybe the things keep going away there going here?

00:49:19
Speaker 4: Maybe?

00:49:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. That's so true readers. I've heard the books are flying off the shelves.

00:49:26
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:49:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just just yesterday my co writer Jane, you know, she went, she has a ritual where she like, she she goes she when she's in New York, she gets a little hot chocolate from a certain place. She goes to a Barnes and Noble in Midtown and you know, signs books. So she did, she went and got the hot chocolate. Yesterday went to Barnes and Noble sold out. Wow, And I was like word, she was like yeah, so and then we the Schomberg last night. All the books were sold out. You know, the house was packed. It's fantastic. So, like, I'm glad that people are taking to that. They care about the story and they want to know the story, even though it's not on the big or the small screen. They can have their own uh small screen or big screen experience, you know. And what everyone tells me, and I believe it and I think it's true. It feels like a movie, yeah, because you see you see who the who the actors were, you know't have the picture who they are. There's a few new characters that you might say, oh, who would that be? You know, and that's fair, go ahead and do that. And so you know, and the social media has been pretty robust as well. So we're very excited.

00:50:37
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

00:50:38
Speaker 2: For people who are looking forward to diving in the book, what can you tell them to look forward to.

00:50:45
Speaker 4: More of the same. If you love Best Man or if you like the Best Man, you're gonna love this book. You know.

00:50:50
Speaker 3: It's more the thing that the humors there, you know, there's there's a depth of emotion that's there.

00:50:56
Speaker 4: It's gonna be some surprises.

00:50:58
Speaker 3: I definitely think people going to laugh and they're going to talk out loud to the book. You know, they're going to, uh, you know, get angry at characters. They're gonna, you know, be sad for characters. They're gonna you know, they should they should be you know, when when the songs get referenced in there, they should play the playlist for themselves. I think there's gonna be a lot to expect. They're going to have a great time. It's a great journey. And I'm hearing that people just like they binged final chapters, people like I mean they watched it like multiple times, and they watched it like from like beginning to end in one setting.

00:51:35
Speaker 4: That that is what I'm hearing.

00:51:37
Speaker 3: People are finishing this book in two days and this book is almost one undred pages. Oh yeah, and the people are like just it's a page turner. They're they're just just voraciously reading it.

00:51:47
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Congratulations everything.

00:51:49
Speaker 2: I'm so excited excited for you aid much success.

00:51:53
Speaker 1: Before we get out of here, I do want to play a little game with you.

00:51:56
Speaker 2: Playing games Okay, it's a up of our games. So just the first thing that comes to mind.

00:52:02
Speaker 4: Oh, boy, I'm terrible at these things. I'm gonna some of.

00:52:06
Speaker 2: These you would know because these are like some of them are direct. What is the first trip you ever wrote?

00:52:12
Speaker 4: Oh, morning side prep?

00:52:15
Speaker 1: Favorite film that you didn't direct?

00:52:19
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah, I was gonna. I'm gonna say Parenthood, Okay, do it?

00:52:25
Speaker 1: Okay? A book that changed your life?

00:52:29
Speaker 4: It changed my life. But I would say Native Sons good.

00:52:34
Speaker 1: Most surreal moment in your career so far?

00:52:37
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

00:52:40
Speaker 3: I'm sure it has to do with Girls Trip, probably shooting at essence of Girls Trip.

00:52:46
Speaker 1: Yes, that was Yeah, that was crazy that y'all did that. Your favorite author.

00:52:54
Speaker 4: Probably Richard right, okay?

00:52:56
Speaker 1: And favorite fictional character? H Do you have a favorite in your in your world like a favorite character? Boy?

00:53:12
Speaker 3: No, I.

00:53:14
Speaker 4: Love all these.

00:53:15
Speaker 3: I love all my characters, right, maybe Quentin, because that's very selfish to say my own character.

00:53:21
Speaker 4: I'm sure there are others you know.

00:53:22
Speaker 3: In the movie and television that I can't think that Nobody's coming to mind in my mind's a blank?

00:53:27
Speaker 4: All right?

00:53:28
Speaker 1: Last one? What is bringing you the most joy right now?

00:53:34
Speaker 3: I think life in general, like, I got a very good balance, kids are healthy, wife's in my corner. I got a book coming out, I got my career is doing well. I'd like to make a little bit more money, but other than that, I'm good.

00:53:51
Speaker 1: I love that Malcolm, thank you so much. Thank you. It's the book. It's on the sales right now or maybe not selling out.

00:54:01
Speaker 4: Better get that book. Yes, don't be left out the chat.

00:54:04
Speaker 1: Listen, do not be left out the chat. Thank you so much.

00:54:08
Speaker 2: Amazing Today on the shoes, I am wearing a heart Aliyah pump. My skirt is Lepard fented by Zara, T shirt is Christian Dior, Jurry van Kleet Scaparelli, and my ear rings.

00:54:28
Speaker 1: Are also by Scaparelli. Get into it.

00:54:33
Speaker 2: Wow, it feels like maybe the Sweeties need to start a book club and call a meeting because we need to discuss this book and these characters. Make sure you guys like subscribe and tell a friend to tell a friend, and make sure you hit that notification button until next time.

00:54:49
Speaker 1: Keep it posa Sweeties.

00:55:00
Speaker 4: Then then then