Lethal Weapon (1987) vs. Die Hard (1988) (Pt 3) Christmas Movies?

<v Speaker 1>Jingle Mel Jingle Mal jingle mel rock.
<v Speaker 2>All Right, everybody, welcome back to the Surely You Can't
<v Speaker 2>Be Serious Podcast? Jason, is this the episode that we
<v Speaker 2>start with someone plummeting off of the tall building? Or
<v Speaker 2>is this the episode that we end with someone plummeting
<v Speaker 2>off of the tall building?
<v Speaker 1>Well? I guess we can talk about both today, So
<v Speaker 1>I guess if you're ready, let's do this.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, ready? One? Two? Is it one? Two? Three? And
<v Speaker 2>then go? Or do we go on three? Welcome back, everybody.
<v Speaker 2>We are so excited.
<v Speaker 1>This is episode three of the Diehard versus Lethal Weapon.
<v Speaker 2>This is the last episode of our movie comparisons of
<v Speaker 2>the year. But we may have something special in store
<v Speaker 2>just before Christmas. Which will that be a surprise.
<v Speaker 1>That's right coming Christmas Eve? Or maybe twenty third We're
<v Speaker 1>not sure yet.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Quick shout out to our new Patreon member Brad Moore.
<v Speaker 1>He is the executive producer of today's show.
<v Speaker 2>Brad, Thank you so much for donating through Patreon. It
<v Speaker 2>means so much to us we can't express it. If
<v Speaker 2>anybody else would like to be an executive producer, it's
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<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys so much. And here we go with
<v Speaker 1>episode three.
<v Speaker 2>Ingle Heart pick all of the tales in Western Civilization
<v Speaker 2>that have a love story and component have a guy
<v Speaker 2>saving a princess, right, yeah, absolutely part of it, so absolutely.
<v Speaker 2>And then we've got Death of Number two and lethal
<v Speaker 2>Weapon mister Joshua Mister Joshua, which is preceded by a
<v Speaker 2>fight scene, yes, which is really dumb. It's a little absurd,
<v Speaker 2>It's yes, it is. It's incredibly incredibly dumb, and I
<v Speaker 2>love watching it. It's every single time. It is like
<v Speaker 2>the oxygen tank in the mouth of Jaws. That's just absurd.
<v Speaker 2>But if you've come along this far along in the ride,
<v Speaker 2>you want that payoff, You're ready for it, and you
<v Speaker 2>buy in full tilt. You got Marta refusing refusing to
<v Speaker 2>follow the rules just so that Riggs can have his
<v Speaker 2>fisticuffs with mister Joshua.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but can you imagine coming to end of that movie,
<v Speaker 1>you have Special Forces Killer one, Special Forces Killer two
<v Speaker 1>and they arrest him and take him without a fight.
<v Speaker 2>No way, right, right?
<v Speaker 1>So Riggs asking for if he wants to shot the title.
<v Speaker 2>So cowboy, it is so cowboy, so amazing, and the
<v Speaker 2>entire LA Police Department along with the helicopter say yeah,
<v Speaker 2>heck yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Let's let these guys fight.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then, of course it can't end with just
<v Speaker 2>a beat up. It's got to end with bullets, right, absolutely,
<v Speaker 2>bullets from both of our heroes. Yes, And then we
<v Speaker 2>have and die Hard, the twist ending the surprise return
<v Speaker 2>and resurrection of what we thought was the dead villain. Yes, Carl,
<v Speaker 2>And who is it that saves the day? Not Roy, No,
<v Speaker 2>absolutely not.
<v Speaker 1>It's it's Al Palell.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he has made his transition to he has become
<v Speaker 2>that thing that he was afraid of becoming again. Yep.
<v Speaker 1>Listen, when I saw die Hard in the theater. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not exaggerating, people stood and cheered, Yeah, stood
<v Speaker 1>and cheered.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah in a movie.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when Al Powell pulled.
<v Speaker 2>His guy yep, because it's freaking awesome. Right.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, the guy.
<v Speaker 2>Who you just think is the fat twinkie eating can't
<v Speaker 2>drive a car cop is ultimately the guy who saves
<v Speaker 2>the hero in the movie without a doubt. I love it. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I mean too. And that brings us to the end.
<v Speaker 2>Happy endings in both movies. Happy ending for die Hard.
<v Speaker 2>You get kiss in the window of the limo as
<v Speaker 2>they drive away into the sunset. I realize it's not
<v Speaker 2>into the sunset, but it looks like.
<v Speaker 1>It, right, it could be, And you get that great
<v Speaker 1>line from Argyle. This is their idea of Christmas. I
<v Speaker 1>got to be here for New Year's right, while it's snowing, bear.
<v Speaker 2>Bonds right because it doesn't snow in La.
<v Speaker 1>No fantast it's fantastic now.
<v Speaker 2>The ending for Leith a Weapon, unsurprisingly by Shane Black,
<v Speaker 2>was not supposed to be a happy ending. It was
<v Speaker 2>a parting of ways, we're not going to see each
<v Speaker 2>other anymore. But by the end of the movie they said,
<v Speaker 2>now we can't do that. We have to have we
<v Speaker 2>have to have the Hollywood ending.
<v Speaker 1>They filled it. Did you see that scene?
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so. Yeah, it's depressing. It's depressing, yes, now, and
<v Speaker 2>Shane Shane Black is kind of big on this. You know,
<v Speaker 2>doesn't like the Hollywood endings, which is why Riggs dies
<v Speaker 2>at the end of his Lethal Weapon two script that
<v Speaker 2>he wrote.
<v Speaker 1>Riggs gets shot nineteen times at the end of leath
<v Speaker 1>Weapon two and lives and worries about, you know, throw
<v Speaker 1>those cigarettes away.
<v Speaker 2>What we do get is the moment where he hands
<v Speaker 2>the bullet over. Right, we realize that he does. He
<v Speaker 2>says it he doesn't need it anymore because at the
<v Speaker 2>beginning of the movie he was alone. He meets this guy.
<v Speaker 2>They're obviously at odds. They're bickering the whole movie, but
<v Speaker 2>by the end he has a new family.
<v Speaker 1>He does, He's been adopted into the murtav family. He says,
<v Speaker 1>if you think I'm gonna eat the world's worst Christmas
<v Speaker 1>dinner by myself, you're crazy. And Rick says, I'll tell
<v Speaker 1>you a little secret. I'm not crazy. Yeah, it's great,
<v Speaker 1>love it. It's an ending with a Christmas bow on top.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. As a kid of the eighties, I like Hollywood endings,
<v Speaker 2>absolutely right. I don't want my hero to die at
<v Speaker 2>the end.
<v Speaker 1>No, no, which is why we hated the Last Jedi.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that does it for me. For the plot.
<v Speaker 2>You got anything else?
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I got tia, but it's coming out of
<v Speaker 1>my mouth. Come all right, So here's a few things
<v Speaker 1>for you.
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Did you know that Leonard Nimoy was originally supposed to
<v Speaker 1>direct weapon?
<v Speaker 2>No?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so Leonard Nimoy ended up doing three minutes
<v Speaker 1>a baby instead of leth a weapon.
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, kind of interesting.
<v Speaker 3>Right.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>There's a point in the movie at the beginning Murta
<v Speaker 1>tells Riggs that Huntsacker saved his life in a certain
<v Speaker 1>battle in Vietnam.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 1>Bill Gibson portrays this exact battle, and we were soldiers.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was it. We were soldiers.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, I got something that's going to blow away.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, here you go.
<v Speaker 1>This is gonna blow you No, no, no, I got
<v Speaker 1>something that's gonna blow you a d Okay, this will
<v Speaker 1>blow your doors off.
<v Speaker 2>Okay.
<v Speaker 1>The burretta that Mel Gibson uses in this film is
<v Speaker 1>the same prop gun used in Die Hard that Bruce
<v Speaker 1>Willis tapes to his back.
<v Speaker 2>What same gun?
<v Speaker 1>No, same gun? Okay, according to my extensive internet research,
<v Speaker 1>same gun.
<v Speaker 2>According to an obscure webs law.
<v Speaker 1>Okay. A running gag in the Lethal Weapon movies, is
<v Speaker 1>the one two wait wait wait wait heys one, two,
<v Speaker 1>three and then go or one dude like three?
<v Speaker 2>Right this running gag?
<v Speaker 1>Part two, Yes, but it starts between Rigs and Merta
<v Speaker 1>and part two Yes, when Myrta is on the toilet, Yes,
<v Speaker 1>toilet bomb. But if you'll, if you'll go back to
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of Lethal Weapon, when they are singing Silent Night,
<v Speaker 1>when the cops are singing in Silent Night so bad
<v Speaker 1>they can't they can't figure out when they're going to start.
<v Speaker 2>That's right, Yeah, that's right. I forgot I noticed that
<v Speaker 2>as I was watching it this most recent time. It
<v Speaker 2>wasn't until this most recent time. But they're like, wait, wait, wait.
<v Speaker 1>Wait, the cops keep starting too soon.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right. A couple of things on Diehard that you
<v Speaker 2>may not know. Yes, Hans Booby, Hans Booby, I'm your
<v Speaker 2>White Knight improvised line by ellis totally so when you
<v Speaker 2>see Hans's reaction, when you see Alan Rickman's reaction, it's
<v Speaker 2>genuine because he was not expecting that.
<v Speaker 1>I must have missed sixty minutes.
<v Speaker 3>What are you saying?
<v Speaker 1>Can we let's talk about Elis for one second Okay,
<v Speaker 1>he is the biggest sleeves ball. Huh cokehead, yep, scumbag. Right,
<v Speaker 1>here's something that I have a theory on. You ready
<v Speaker 1>for this? Yes, they make this big to do about
<v Speaker 1>elle us have. I mean they they crack open a coke,
<v Speaker 1>can pour it, fill it up, he's drinking it.
<v Speaker 3>Uh huh.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, here's what I'm thinking. Yeah, I think Ellis
<v Speaker 1>asked somebody there if they had any coke.
<v Speaker 2>Probably right, that's probably.
<v Speaker 1>Right, and they went and got him Coca cola.
<v Speaker 2>Here's one for you. Okay, Okay. So they brought in
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Desuza to add additional lines, try to get some
<v Speaker 2>humor in there. Yep. He first meets Bruce Willis. They're
<v Speaker 2>only five years age difference. Stephens Desuza is five years
<v Speaker 2>older than Bruce Willis. Okay, and they start talking and
<v Speaker 2>they realized that they grew up in the same area. Oh,
<v Speaker 2>by the way, most German actor in this movie Bruce
<v Speaker 2>Willis because he was born in Germany, but he was
<v Speaker 2>raised in New Jersey, which is where Stephen de Seuzan
<v Speaker 2>was raised. They knew some of the same hangouts. They're
<v Speaker 2>having a good time. They start talking about old TV
<v Speaker 2>shows that they liked, and one of the old TV
<v Speaker 2>shows that they liked was Roy Rogers Call Me Roy. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and they both start talking about Yippi Kaya and how
<v Speaker 2>much they like that line, and the Susan says, I'm
<v Speaker 2>going to get that in the movie somehow. I want
<v Speaker 2>to get that in the movie. And so that's how
<v Speaker 2>you get the yep kya in the line that is fantastic. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>let's talk about that line for a second.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, go ahead, Okay, we are a PG thirteen podcast.
<v Speaker 1>We're not going to say the big MF firs, so
<v Speaker 1>don't turn us off. But that line, Yeah, Bruce Willis
<v Speaker 1>drops it like a freaking atomic bomb.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so like whispered subtle brilliance.
<v Speaker 1>He sprinkles f words throughout Diehard. Okay, they're all over
<v Speaker 1>the place, but this one is a freaking cruise missile, right,
<v Speaker 1>And he says it was such cool and such style. Yes,
<v Speaker 1>and it's one of the greatest movie lines of all
<v Speaker 1>time that I can't say on this podcast. Yes, Yippi kaye. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>it's so good.
<v Speaker 2>So at one point they had been filming all day,
<v Speaker 2>all day long. De Susan goes home as soon as
<v Speaker 2>he walks in the doors two o'clock in the morning.
<v Speaker 2>Soon as he walks in the door, Joel Silver calls
<v Speaker 2>him up and says, you got to come back. He's
<v Speaker 2>like what why? He goes These morons built the vents
<v Speaker 2>to spec so they had this whole plan that Bruce
<v Speaker 2>Willis is supposed to crawl through the vents, but instead
<v Speaker 2>of building them big enough for him to go through,
<v Speaker 2>they build them as normal size vents, which is why
<v Speaker 2>you have this tight enclosed moment. And so Desusa comes back,
<v Speaker 2>and that's where you get the line of come out
<v Speaker 2>to the coast. We'll get together, we'll have a few less.
<v Speaker 2>That one was Desusa and then the now I know
<v Speaker 2>what it feels like to be a TV dinner. That
<v Speaker 2>was Bruce.
<v Speaker 1>Willis improv Wow, that's awesome.
<v Speaker 2>Oh and and him getting into the vent that was
<v Speaker 2>I mean I watched that scene. There's no freaking way
<v Speaker 2>that any human being can fall that far and catch him.
<v Speaker 2>The stuntman was supposed to catch the vent before it
<v Speaker 2>he missed.
<v Speaker 1>Here's the deal. The stuntman was supposed to grab that ledge. Yes,
<v Speaker 1>he slipped, fell hit the air bag like four stories down.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, but they.
<v Speaker 1>Cut in that quick.
<v Speaker 2>Oh where he barely misses, like he hits it. But
<v Speaker 2>then you can tell.
<v Speaker 1>That guy false. You can see it clears that he
<v Speaker 1>is plummeting. Yeah, and but they're like, no, we can
<v Speaker 1>still use that.
<v Speaker 2>We'll just cut it that it. Yeah, cut to his fingers,
<v Speaker 2>to his fingers. Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>Hey, did you know there's one scene in particular Bruce
<v Speaker 1>Willis wears fake rubber feet.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, so that he can run across the glass.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, shoot the glass.
<v Speaker 2>Why does he speak to him in English? They're both
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be German. He says something in German, Carl
<v Speaker 2>doesn't understand, and so then he says in English, shoot
<v Speaker 2>the glass. Because he's not talking to us. He's not talking,
<v Speaker 2>he's talking to the audience. Right, So good. I got
<v Speaker 2>to say that I love in both of these movies
<v Speaker 2>that you get your exposition through the arguments of the characters. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>Like that's an amazing thing. Like we talked about how
<v Speaker 2>in you know, we had a great exposition moment in
<v Speaker 2>Raiders because he's teaching the government guys about the arc, right,
<v Speaker 2>and so it's this opportunity, but he's I mean, it's
<v Speaker 2>an obvious exposition. He's telling a long story, it's not
<v Speaker 2>an argument. And the same thing with Back to the Future.
<v Speaker 2>You've got doc explaining time travel because they're document documenting
<v Speaker 2>everything with the TV. But with both of these movies,
<v Speaker 2>you don't have any of that one character telling a
<v Speaker 2>long exposition type of thing. It's all just an exchange,
<v Speaker 2>like them trying to you know, paper thin, right, this
<v Speaker 2>idea that there's something more going on than just a
<v Speaker 2>bad drug deal until the paper thin pays off. But
<v Speaker 2>it's always arguments between them. Yes, same thing in Diard.
<v Speaker 2>It's the arguments between Hans and John Roy or whatever.
<v Speaker 2>It's the arguments between Dwayne t. Robinson and John or
<v Speaker 2>Al Powell or those conversations that really informs the audience
<v Speaker 2>about what's going on. I just I thought that was
<v Speaker 2>a great way to write a script.
<v Speaker 1>Skillful both circumstances.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay.
<v Speaker 1>A couple of little tidbits on Lethal Weapon. Danny Glever
<v Speaker 1>and Gary Busey appear again together in Predator two. Ye okay,
<v Speaker 1>here's one of the things I wanted to mention to you.
<v Speaker 1>There's a couple of setups in Lethal Weapon one that
<v Speaker 1>come to fruition and lethal Weapon two that I want
<v Speaker 1>to mention briefly and then maybe we can get into
<v Speaker 1>sequels a little bit. Yeah, there is a bumper sticker
<v Speaker 1>that's taped to the Murtaz refrigerator that says in apartheid
<v Speaker 1>in part two, the bad guys are South African. Also
<v Speaker 1>Riggs's wife Vicky Riggs.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Victoria Riggs.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she was killed by the South African bad guys
<v Speaker 1>that you find out that far too, Yes, So yeah, okay,
<v Speaker 1>do we want to talk about sequels real quick?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, go ahead, let's talk about Seaquls. Here's an interesting thing,
<v Speaker 2>you know. I talked about how Bill and Ted face
<v Speaker 2>the music starts off kind of slow. Yes, I don't
<v Speaker 2>really think about it, but that kind of was the
<v Speaker 2>way movies started out until Leith A Weapon Too. Lethal
<v Speaker 2>Weapon Too is really if I'm looking back, it's the
<v Speaker 2>first movie that I can think of where you start
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the action and it's fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>It's not like you just start at adventure. You're in
<v Speaker 1>the middle of a car chase. Like the opening title sequence,
<v Speaker 1>Rigs is pounding the ceiling. I love this job. It's
<v Speaker 1>full throttle right out of the Gate. Leath the Weapon two.
<v Speaker 2>Has a lot more humor.
<v Speaker 1>It's it's leaning on that chemistry between those two actors,
<v Speaker 1>and it's absolutely fun. You still have Crazy Rigs. It's
<v Speaker 1>way more funny.
<v Speaker 2>It's funny. It's certainly got its way. It's way dark
<v Speaker 2>in spot, you know. Yeah, I mean you've got got
<v Speaker 2>the death of the hot South African girl. Yeah. I
<v Speaker 2>can't remember her name. But anyway, which I.
<v Speaker 1>Don't know if you know this or not, you can
<v Speaker 1>google deleted scenes for Leath Weapon.
<v Speaker 2>Two show her mispronouncing her name.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it is her name, like five yes.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>You could also see a original ending where she's having
<v Speaker 1>Thanksgiving dinner with Riggs and mertas she lived the first
<v Speaker 1>time through Oh Wow, but they changed it because they
<v Speaker 1>wanted Crazy Rigs to come out.
<v Speaker 2>So I get great. Yeah, that's right, that's right.
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, Leith the Weapon two, love it. Yeah, Leith Weapon three.
<v Speaker 2>Fun with the one on gently No, that's four okay,
<v Speaker 2>that's the one where we get Renee Russo for the
<v Speaker 2>first time.
<v Speaker 1>You get Renee Russo in part three she's introduced, but
<v Speaker 1>part two you get Leo gets introduced.
<v Speaker 2>Which is Joe Pesci fantastic fantastic. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>When I asked my wife what her favorite part of
<v Speaker 1>Leith the Weapon was, yes, all she could tell me
<v Speaker 1>was Leo gets line. Right, okay, No, they have you
<v Speaker 1>in the drive through, yeah, okay, and then it progresses.
<v Speaker 1>So two three four you have jet Lee and.
<v Speaker 2>You by the way, sorry before we go too far.
<v Speaker 2>That Leo Getz part was originally written for John Lovetts.
<v Speaker 2>I think character was based on something they saw on
<v Speaker 2>Three Amigos, John Lovett's part and Three Amigos. They saw
<v Speaker 2>that and that was the inspiration for Leo gets part.
<v Speaker 2>They wrote it for John Lovettz. Joe Eshy is edged indoor, I.
<v Speaker 1>Remember love love love that character.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>So two three four of Leeth Weapon, you yourself just said
<v Speaker 1>you can kind of missmash them because they're all great, right,
<v Speaker 1>I mean great is a strong, They're all fun.
<v Speaker 2>Are we going to talk about five?
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about five.
<v Speaker 2>Five is in the works. It's twenty twenty. Mel Gibson
<v Speaker 2>is sixty four years old.
<v Speaker 1>What's Danny Glover? If he was fifty and eighty seven,
<v Speaker 1>that means he's eighty three.
<v Speaker 2>Dick Donner is ninety and he's doing it.
<v Speaker 1>Good for him.
<v Speaker 2>For ear least web in five. Sure, I don't know
<v Speaker 2>what they're gonna do with it, but sure, let's do it.
<v Speaker 1>Heck yeah, yeah, yes, more old. He was too old
<v Speaker 1>for it in eighty seven, and he's not too old
<v Speaker 1>for anym It's great. Yeah, okay die Hard sequels.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, die Hard Part.
<v Speaker 1>One one of the greatest action movies of all time.
<v Speaker 2>Ar you believe the perfect action movie.
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna argue against that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Part two good, good, very good. Again. You trade
<v Speaker 2>in your German mercenaries for your American mercenaries. You got
<v Speaker 2>a couple of bad guys to be concerned about. You've
<v Speaker 2>got the confined space again. It is right, Yes, I
<v Speaker 2>mean it is. It is another die Hard. It for
<v Speaker 2>sure is.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, a step down, but who wouldn't step down from
<v Speaker 1>a ten? I mean it's it's still a very good movie. Yes, okay.
<v Speaker 2>Part three, Diehard with the Vengeance.
<v Speaker 1>It's good, and it's good. It's okay, it's okay. He's
<v Speaker 1>running around New York City trying to figure out clues.
<v Speaker 1>Simon says, this, do that and this that was written
<v Speaker 1>as a lethal weapon sequel. What Diehard with a Vengeance
<v Speaker 1>was originally written as a Lethal Weapons sequel. Oh my gosh, wow,
<v Speaker 1>So there you go. So Shane Black tells a story
<v Speaker 1>about going to he did the rewrites for Last Action.
<v Speaker 1>He wrote, okay, right, last movie that I walk out of, right, Yes.
<v Speaker 2>And what I understand is John McTurnan rewrote the rewrites,
<v Speaker 2>which is why you have such a terrible movie. And
<v Speaker 2>so it comes out and obviously everybody felt about the
<v Speaker 2>same way that you did. Yeah, it was not a
<v Speaker 2>well received movie at all. And so they have their
<v Speaker 2>after party where everybody can't talk about the movie, like, well,
<v Speaker 2>food sure is good. So and so she Black tells
<v Speaker 2>the story of how he like after that is over,
<v Speaker 2>He and Arnold and John mcdernan are sitting there having
<v Speaker 2>a beer together. I just can't even imagine that, but
<v Speaker 2>talking about it, and basically they changed the subject to
<v Speaker 2>Diehard with a Vengeance and John mcnernon starts smiling again
<v Speaker 2>because he was totally defeated after Last Action. Hero did
<v Speaker 2>so badly, but he was he came back to direct
<v Speaker 2>Diehard with a Vengeance.
<v Speaker 1>What about Diehard four and five?
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even watch their crap.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah they're crap.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, here's what happens. He turns into the invincible hero. Right. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>he went from a flawed hero which we love and
<v Speaker 2>can identify with, to Superman who it's it's not interesting.
<v Speaker 1>The action was a sirt so sequels I definitely. Oh
<v Speaker 1>and Lethal Weapon has a TV show that was well
<v Speaker 1>received until the guy played Martin.
<v Speaker 2>Riggs got fired. Yeah, that's that's the story for another day.
<v Speaker 1>Right, But the sequels for Lethal Weapon are definitely stronger
<v Speaker 1>than the sequels for Diehard.
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe my favorite sequel to die Hard right
<v Speaker 2>now is the Diehard commercial. That is where he crashes
<v Speaker 2>through the window and says, I'm gonna need one of
<v Speaker 2>those and then hops into the Great Man. It's great. Yes, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>little note on John mctarne. Did you know that he
<v Speaker 2>was arrested and then went to prison. So we're talking
<v Speaker 2>about one of the biggest directors of the eighties and nineties.
<v Speaker 2>He is potentially a guy who can call his own shot, right, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>for sure.
<v Speaker 1>So there's even after the last Action, even after.
<v Speaker 2>The last Action Hero, he still got tired with a vengeance.
<v Speaker 2>He's still got a ton of movies to his credit.
<v Speaker 2>And then he hires this guy named Anthony Pelicano. He
<v Speaker 2>was a private investigator, also a fixer, also a really
<v Speaker 2>slimy guy, and was used by a lot of Hollywood
<v Speaker 2>folks and basically got a lot of dirt on aho
<v Speaker 2>lot of Hollywood folks as well. So he used him
<v Speaker 2>to spy on his wife whenever they were getting a divorce,
<v Speaker 2>and then he also called him back up again whenever
<v Speaker 2>he was directing the movie Rollerball, because he was worried
<v Speaker 2>that this producer on Rollerball was trying to sabotage him,
<v Speaker 2>and so he wanted to have this guy check and
<v Speaker 2>make sure he wasn't sabotaging him. Well, this guy's tactics
<v Speaker 2>were not legal in the strictest sense of the word,
<v Speaker 2>and he got in some big trouble with the FEDS,
<v Speaker 2>and so an FBI agent calls John mcturnaon and says, hey,
<v Speaker 2>have you ever used this Anthony Pelicana as a private investigator?
<v Speaker 2>John mcturn and says, yeah, I used him whenever I
<v Speaker 2>was going through my divorce. So I had him, you know,
<v Speaker 2>do some investigation of my wife. And they have the
<v Speaker 2>investigators like anything else, and John mturn says, no, that's
<v Speaker 2>a lie. That would be lying, that would be lying
<v Speaker 2>to a federal officer, which is a felony offense, and
<v Speaker 2>so ultimately I don't want to go into the big
<v Speaker 2>story of it, but you know, he agreed to do
<v Speaker 2>four months and then he withdrew it and then ended
<v Speaker 2>up doing twelve months in prison, filed for bankruptcy while
<v Speaker 2>he was in prison, and lost everything. I mean, it's gosh, huge,
<v Speaker 2>huge deal for this guy who's like at the top
<v Speaker 2>of the wave. I mean, it's just crazy that somebody
<v Speaker 2>at that position could lose it all. Its tragic.
<v Speaker 1>It is the guy who directed Predator, the guy who
<v Speaker 1>directed Diehard, last Action Hero Huntred October. This guy went
<v Speaker 1>to jail and lost it all.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's talk composers. Okay, before you do that.
<v Speaker 1>I got one little titbit that I wanted to throw
<v Speaker 1>in and that I forgot to do it. The other day,
<v Speaker 1>when John is plucking glass out of his feet, al
<v Speaker 1>Pal is like, how you doing, and he makes the
<v Speaker 1>comment he says, all things being equal, I'd rather be
<v Speaker 1>in Philadelphia. Yes, okay, this I've heard this quote my
<v Speaker 1>entire life. I knew it was referencing something, but I
<v Speaker 1>didn't know until I started looking.
<v Speaker 2>I know it. Okay, this is one of those things.
<v Speaker 2>This is the trivia card I would get. I know this.
<v Speaker 2>This is the last words a W. C. Fields. Yeah, yes,
<v Speaker 2>it's fantastic. So. W. C.
<v Speaker 1>Fields was born and raised in Philadelphia and would often
<v Speaker 1>poke fun at his hometown. And basically the reference was
<v Speaker 1>the grave was just slightly worse than being in Philadelphia.
<v Speaker 1>But the interesting thing. So this is a famous W. C.
<v Speaker 1>Fields quote President Reagan. After he was shot, he wrote
<v Speaker 1>on a note they said how are you feel? And
<v Speaker 1>he said, all in all, I'd rather be in Philadelphia.
<v Speaker 2>That fantastic. Okay, So let's talk composers. Okay, except that
<v Speaker 2>we're not going to talk composers. We're going to talk
<v Speaker 2>composer because it's the same guy for both movies. So
<v Speaker 2>Michael Kaman is a guy who has a huge library
<v Speaker 2>of film work. I mean, it's amazing. And he's not
<v Speaker 2>one of those ones that pops up like Con Zimmer
<v Speaker 2>or John Williams or any of those guys that I
<v Speaker 2>did not.
<v Speaker 1>Know his name before we started looking into.
<v Speaker 2>This, but it's huge. He's I mean, his music work
<v Speaker 2>is huge. And he was a guy who was classically
<v Speaker 2>trained but also just had a love for all kinds
<v Speaker 2>of music, and he did stuff with so many rock
<v Speaker 2>and roll artists. I don't think I could possibly list
<v Speaker 2>them all. Wanted to be a composer's whole life. But
<v Speaker 2>he started off arranging music with Pink Floyd for the
<v Speaker 2>movie The Wall. But he worked with Roger Waters, David Gilmore, Queen.
<v Speaker 2>He did the orchestration for Who Wants to Live Forever
<v Speaker 2>from Highland, was the composer for Highlander, worked with Eric
<v Speaker 2>Clapton Aerosmith. He did the live orchestral part for Dreamson.
<v Speaker 2>He worked with Bond Jovie. He worked with the Arrhythmics,
<v Speaker 2>Metallica on the Nothing Else Matters and their whole that
<v Speaker 2>whole live album that he did the ES and M
<v Speaker 2>He was the s part. He was the symphony for
<v Speaker 2>their Metallica's That's Fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>Why have we not heard of this guy?
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't know. He passed away like
<v Speaker 2>in November eighteenth, two thousand and three, of a heart attack.
<v Speaker 2>But he got called on to work on leth a weapon,
<v Speaker 2>and he said, no, I'm not interested in action movies.
<v Speaker 2>I don't like action movies. I don't want to do them.
<v Speaker 2>And I think it might have been Eric Clapton. That
<v Speaker 2>persuaded him to become involved with the movie, because you've
<v Speaker 2>got two themes going on with leth a Weapon. You've
<v Speaker 2>got the sex theme, Sexy Sax, and you've got the
<v Speaker 2>guitar theme. So the sas theme is Roger Marta, the
<v Speaker 2>guitar theme is Martin Riggs. And then he goes on
<v Speaker 2>to do action movie after action movie after action movie.
<v Speaker 2>So after Lethal Weapon, he did Adventures and Babysitting.
<v Speaker 1>Nobody gets out of Here without playing the Blues.
<v Speaker 2>He did Renegades, he did License to Kill, he did Roadhouse,
<v Speaker 2>he did Lethal Weapon two, he did Die Hard Too.
<v Speaker 2>He did Nothing but Trouble.
<v Speaker 3>He did Hudson Hawk, he did Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.
<v Speaker 3>He did The Last Boy Scout, he did Tales from
<v Speaker 3>the Crypt, he did Lethal Weapon three, he did Last
<v Speaker 3>Action Hero, he did The Three Musketeers, he did Don
<v Speaker 3>Juan de Marco.
<v Speaker 2>I mean it just goes on and on and on.
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's and then he in ninety five he
<v Speaker 2>did Mister Holland's Opus and oh yeah, you're a fan, right, yeah. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>So after that he started his own foundation called Mister
<v Speaker 2>Holland's Foundation, that would provide used musical equipment for underprivileged. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>it's great. You mentioned Eric Clapton.
<v Speaker 1>Eric Clapton actually does play the guitar for the Leath
<v Speaker 1>of Weapon rigs theme.
<v Speaker 2>Obviously he's got the Leath of Weapon theme. And then
<v Speaker 2>of course he did the music for Diehard as well,
<v Speaker 2>and it is I mean, we know it's Beethoven, right,
<v Speaker 2>we know.
<v Speaker 1>It's absolutely joy, yes.
<v Speaker 2>But I mean in order to do that, you have
<v Speaker 2>to be able to take that and not only cut
<v Speaker 2>it down, but slip it in and make it relevant
<v Speaker 2>to what's going on in the film. And he did
<v Speaker 2>it so well. I mean that music is perfect throughout.
<v Speaker 2>He uses it throughout the movie along with the little
<v Speaker 2>jingle bells to make sure that we remember that this
<v Speaker 2>is a Christmas movie.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, yes, you know you talked about it at the
<v Speaker 1>beginning at the Christmas party. Yeah, there is a four
<v Speaker 1>piece orchestra at the Christmas party playing Ode to Joy.
<v Speaker 1>That's diegetic music, diagetic music again, and he does slip
<v Speaker 1>it in. He teases you with it, and then when
<v Speaker 1>they open the vault and Hans and theo are raiding
<v Speaker 1>the place, you get Oh to Joy a full tilt, right, it's.
<v Speaker 2>Peak, Yes, at that peak moment, and then what does
<v Speaker 2>he say? Merry Christmas?
<v Speaker 1>It's time. Okay, we've been waiting.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's talk about it now. So here's the deal.
<v Speaker 1>We've been teasing this. I have my own battles with
<v Speaker 1>my sister. She and I go back and forth on this.
<v Speaker 1>I have a friend, Dana Smith. She likes to poke
<v Speaker 1>the bear when she teases me about this. Are these
<v Speaker 1>Christmas movies, d let's go they.
<v Speaker 2>Are definitely Christmas movies. That's not just an opinion. We
<v Speaker 2>can we can establish this through empirical and nowalysis of
<v Speaker 2>the evidence in front of us. So, okay, despite the
<v Speaker 2>fact that Bruce Willis caused a stir about three years
<v Speaker 2>ago whenever he during his roast, he made this point
<v Speaker 2>of I only did this to say that this that
<v Speaker 2>die Hard is not a Christmas movie. Okay, I'll due respect, Bruce.
<v Speaker 2>You didn't write the movie, that's right. You know who
<v Speaker 2>wrote the movie, Stephen Stephen Dejesusan. You know what Stephen j.
<v Speaker 2>Susan says.
<v Speaker 1>It's the greatest Christmas movie of all time.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and he even created a chart. He created a
<v Speaker 2>chart to prove his point and we'll go through that,
<v Speaker 2>and he just obviously he just has die Hard that
<v Speaker 2>he's taken off these points on. But let's look at
<v Speaker 2>both Leath the Weapon and die Hard and the movie
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas. Who know one, no one would argue that
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas is not a Christmas movie. But let's look
<v Speaker 2>at them all side by side. And you tell us,
<v Speaker 2>after this empirical analysis of the evidence in front of us,
<v Speaker 2>what you think. All right, let's go all right side
<v Speaker 2>by side, here we go. Okay, takes place during Christmas holiday.
<v Speaker 2>Die Hard, yes, takes place entirely during Christmas Eve, right, absolutely, Okay.
<v Speaker 2>Lethal Weapon takes place week at the most but clearly
<v Speaker 2>first scene is him buying Christmas trees when he makes
<v Speaker 2>his drug bust. Last scene is You're not gonna make
<v Speaker 2>me eat the worst Christmas dinner by myself, and so
<v Speaker 2>obviously it the whole movie takes place during the Christmas holiday. Yep,
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas final reel, only the rest of the movie
<v Speaker 2>does not take place during the Christmas holiday a all
<v Speaker 2>right setting, okay, die Hard obviously yes, Christmas part right, yep.
<v Speaker 2>But we know from the movie in Lethal Weapon that
<v Speaker 2>they are preparing for some sort of party, because they
<v Speaker 2>have the quartet of officers practicing singing Silent Nights, So
<v Speaker 2>there has to be some sort of event, which is
<v Speaker 2>why they're prepping for this, which, as you mentioned, was
<v Speaker 2>really the birth of is it do we go on
<v Speaker 2>three or do we go one two three? Then go?
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that was the birth of that. But still
<v Speaker 2>they're singing in preparation. They're practicing in preparation for something.
<v Speaker 2>So again, you have a Christmas party, White Christmas again
<v Speaker 2>only the final reel.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, hold on one second before we move off from
<v Speaker 1>Silent Night.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Do you know the name of the composer of Silent Night?
<v Speaker 1>The original Austrian composer's name is Franz Gruber. No, yes,
<v Speaker 1>what Franz Gruber?
<v Speaker 2>Wow? Oh my gosh.
<v Speaker 1>That's the point, Diehard, that's really amazing.
<v Speaker 3>All right.
<v Speaker 2>So number of Christmas songs so far White Christmas is
<v Speaker 2>losing two out of two battles, right right, Okay, so
<v Speaker 2>number of Christmas songs in Lethal Weapon. We have the
<v Speaker 2>beginning song Jingle Rock, jing Bell Rock. We have the
<v Speaker 2>quartet of officers singing Silent Night. Yes, and we also.
<v Speaker 1>Have what else you've got? The bugs Bunny Holiday special
<v Speaker 1>playing in the background.
<v Speaker 2>That counts.
<v Speaker 1>When Riggs is looking down the barrel of his own gun.
<v Speaker 2>That counts. That counts. So die Hard has three. It
<v Speaker 2>has let it snow, It has Winter Wonderland, and it
<v Speaker 2>has Christmas in Hollis by run d MC and so
<v Speaker 2>three three, and what does White Christmas have? It has
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas and snow, and that's it again, three for three.
<v Speaker 2>White Christmas is losing to both die Hard and leave
<v Speaker 2>the Weapon as a Christmas movie. Now at this point,
<v Speaker 2>Steven DeSUS it gets a little bit weird. It gets
<v Speaker 2>like he's talking about the party venue being threatened and
<v Speaker 2>die Hard is by terrorists and White Christmas is by foreclosure.
<v Speaker 2>I think that just makes the point that Diehard's more exciting,
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily that it's a better movie. And then he
<v Speaker 2>mentions that, you know, the German ring leader is Hans
<v Speaker 2>Gruber and die Hard and a White Christmas is Hitler,
<v Speaker 2>And so the point goes to White Christmas on that one,
<v Speaker 2>again for weighty value, but not necessarily for Christmas. But
<v Speaker 2>if we're looking at Christmas stuff really, then what we
<v Speaker 2>have to look at this is the key christ like
<v Speaker 2>sacrifice leath a weapon. Mel Gibson is hanging by his
<v Speaker 2>hands after being tortured and refuses to talk in a
<v Speaker 2>sacrifice to save his partner and his daughter. Obviously at
<v Speaker 2>christ Like sacrifice for sure. John McLane, running barefoot across
<v Speaker 2>the glass, has his feet pierced in order to save
<v Speaker 2>his wife and the rest of the people. Again, obvious
<v Speaker 2>christ Like sacrifice. What's the sacrifice in White Christmas? Danny
<v Speaker 2>Kay has to upgrade Vera Ellen's train ticket. I'm going
<v Speaker 2>to say without question that both Leath a Weapon and
<v Speaker 2>die Hard beat White Christmas without any hesitation as Christmas movies.
<v Speaker 1>This is not a fight, This is an execution. I've
<v Speaker 1>got a few other things to throw on the pile,
<v Speaker 1>all right. So die Hard is essentially about a husband
<v Speaker 1>and a wife desperate to get their family back together
<v Speaker 1>for Christmas. Yes, okay, Leath a Weapon, It's all about
<v Speaker 1>a family taking in someone without a family. It's an adoption, yep, Okay, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>there are gifts given in Leath a Weapon. In Diehart, Okay,
<v Speaker 1>the gifts given in Diehart, the Rolex McLain gives his
<v Speaker 1>gun two hans Yeah okay, he then takes it immediately back.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And no bullets.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, no, bullets.
<v Speaker 2>What do you think I'm having stupid hunks.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the bad guys give themselves the biggest Christmas present
<v Speaker 1>of the movie, and then McLain gives himself his own
<v Speaker 1>gun at the perfect time, wrapped with season greetings gift tape.
<v Speaker 2>If that doesn't tell you Christmas, when when the camera
<v Speaker 2>pans back and you see a gun taped to his
<v Speaker 2>back with the tape saying seasons greetings on the tape
<v Speaker 2>and the music is going Jeans, it's fantastic. Yeah, tell
<v Speaker 2>me again, it's not a Christmas movie. Bruce Sleath a weapon.
<v Speaker 1>At the end of Leath the weapon, Rigs gives Roger
<v Speaker 1>a gift wrapped hallow tip bullet, actually gives it's rheann.
<v Speaker 1>She's like, it's a bullet. He's like, yeah, it's a bullet.
<v Speaker 1>What he's saying is I'm not suicidal anymore, thanks to you. Right.
<v Speaker 1>That's Christmas spirit? Is it? Not?
<v Speaker 2>Christmas? All over the place?
<v Speaker 1>And then you have tons of Christmas reverences like twas
<v Speaker 1>the Night before Christmas, you know, THEO. Hans even says
<v Speaker 1>it's Christmas time, THEO it's the.
<v Speaker 2>Time for miracles.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And then of course you have. Now I have
<v Speaker 1>a machine gun. Ho ho ho, with the Santa hat on,
<v Speaker 1>with the Santa hat on.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and then leath the weapon.
<v Speaker 1>You've got Christmas lights, You've got the Christmas tree, You've
<v Speaker 1>got the Christmas.
<v Speaker 2>Fight in the front yard. Oh wait, is that just
<v Speaker 2>my family? No, everybody has a Chris everybody has a
<v Speaker 2>front yard Christmas fight.
<v Speaker 1>Everybody leave the weapon, has Christmas trees, caroling, presence, snow.
<v Speaker 1>Those girls were messing around with snow.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and die Hard it's snowing the barons.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely music. As you said, John McLean's wife's name.
<v Speaker 2>This is the key.
<v Speaker 1>It's Holly.
<v Speaker 2>It is so brilliant you you totally call that, and
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe I overlooked it. But knowing that you
<v Speaker 2>have to say, this is not only a Christmas movie,
<v Speaker 2>it is deliberately a Christmas movie.
<v Speaker 1>Main themes of both movies family, love, joy, peace. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>are we ready to move to final judgment?
<v Speaker 2>Let's do it? Okay?
<v Speaker 1>Okay, am I going first?
<v Speaker 2>You're going first?
<v Speaker 1>All right, final judgment. I love both of these movies,
<v Speaker 1>and I can't stress that. I know I say that
<v Speaker 1>every time. Both of these movies are automatic watches. If
<v Speaker 1>I'm passing by the channel and I see Leath the Weapon,
<v Speaker 1>I'm stopping. If I see die Hard, I'm stopping. If
<v Speaker 1>I see die Hard, I'm stopping. I'm throwing my remote
<v Speaker 1>behind me. It's not I'm not changing the channel. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter to me. Lethal Weapon is the best
<v Speaker 1>buddy cop and maybe the best movie of nineteen eighty seven,
<v Speaker 1>a movie packed full of Eighties gems. It's my favorite
<v Speaker 1>movie of nineteen eighty seven. Die Hard is in the
<v Speaker 1>conversation for best movie ever for me. Okay, so I
<v Speaker 1>do love wholeheartedly both of these movies. I love the
<v Speaker 1>Lethal Weapon franchise more, but I love die Hard as
<v Speaker 1>a standalone movie the most. For me, it's die Hard.
<v Speaker 2>I feel like he kind of stole my thunder.
<v Speaker 1>There's about time.
<v Speaker 2>I just always wanted to say that. I mean, it's
<v Speaker 2>the end of the season here or done. I just
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be able to say it. Okay, Yeah, So
<v Speaker 2>two absolutely brilliant movies, without question. If they're on, I'm
<v Speaker 2>watching no hesitation. So the question is which one's better
<v Speaker 2>of these two amazing movies. Diehard is arguably the perfect
<v Speaker 2>action movie. It has little bits of action intermixed with
<v Speaker 2>comedy and story and struggles, and it is brilliant from
<v Speaker 2>beginning to end. Lethal Weapon is fantastic, but it has
<v Speaker 2>some flaws. The fight scene that you just mentioned, the
<v Speaker 2>holiday fight in the yard, that is ridiculous. That is
<v Speaker 2>just plain ridiculous. The suspense music as we're waiting and
<v Speaker 2>waiting and waiting for the cars to drive up in
<v Speaker 2>the desert is just unreal. I'm like, guys, I know
<v Speaker 2>you spend a lot of money on this shot, but
<v Speaker 2>you could have had this done about a minute and
<v Speaker 2>a half ago. Let's move on. And then the worst
<v Speaker 2>scene in the movie is at the very beginning where
<v Speaker 2>Roger Murtaz in the bathtub and his family comes in,
<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't hide the turtle head floating up out
<v Speaker 2>of the water. He just lets him sing Happy Birthday
<v Speaker 2>and gets a kiss from his daughter, and then sexy
<v Speaker 2>music starts playing. I don't know, that's just there are
<v Speaker 2>some things that just can't be excused in this movie,
<v Speaker 2>and so for that reason, I have to say Diehard
<v Speaker 2>wins as the better of these two movies. Now, you
<v Speaker 2>make an important point, franchise to franchise, Lethal Weapon wins
<v Speaker 2>hands down. Close. Leath the Weapon franchise is great. I
<v Speaker 2>can't wait to see what they do with five Richard
<v Speaker 2>Donners ninety and he's gonna do something amazing, I'm sure
<v Speaker 2>of it. Die Haard was pretty good after the second
<v Speaker 2>one was about the last good one. Really, I mean
<v Speaker 2>some people like the third one. I don't really care
<v Speaker 2>for it. And then he becomes this hero that you
<v Speaker 2>can't be, which was I mean, the whole reason we
<v Speaker 2>loved it was how human he was. And so I
<v Speaker 2>am disappointed with where die Hard wind So there, I
<v Speaker 2>am franchise the franchise. Lethal Weapon wins. But we're not
<v Speaker 2>comparing franchises. We're comparing the movies and moving to movie
<v Speaker 2>without question, die Hard wins today.
<v Speaker 1>All the weather outside but the fire, so best Christmas
<v Speaker 1>movie of all time?
<v Speaker 2>That might be pushing in a little bit.
<v Speaker 1>Let us hear from you, guys, what is your favorite
<v Speaker 1>of these two die Hard versus Leath a Weapon. Tell
<v Speaker 1>us what your favorite.
<v Speaker 2>Christmas movie is of all time? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you're a Christmas vacation guy, or maybe you're an
<v Speaker 1>Elf guy.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah or girl? Yeah, guys were at the end of
<v Speaker 2>season one, we've covered so many movies, so many albums,
<v Speaker 2>so much stuff. Write in and tell us what's your favorite.
<v Speaker 2>Right in and tell us what you want to see.
<v Speaker 2>We love hearing these things. We've got guys who have
<v Speaker 2>supported us on Patreon. We have got guys who communicate
<v Speaker 2>constantly with us via email, via Facebook, via Twitter, and
<v Speaker 2>we love it. Keep doing it. Come in, join the conversation.
<v Speaker 2>This is what we do for us to make connections
<v Speaker 2>with folks like you.
<v Speaker 1>Jason, Merry Christmas, the Merry Christmas.
<v Speaker 2>We will see you all next year. Let us know,
<v Speaker 2>let us know. We finally kiss good night. Oh I
<v Speaker 2>hate going out