276 | Following a Child's Lead vs. Returning Responsibility: Knowing the Difference

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Sandi in Iowa.

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And her question is about

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how we handle when children ask us to do things for us in the playroom,

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and I think I've touched on this a couple of times,

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but I don't know that I've comprehensively addressed this in the coaching,

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it comes up a lot.

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I think on the Collective calls it comes up a lot,

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but I don't know how in depth I've gone into it on the podcast.

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So thank you so much,

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Sandi,

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for the question.

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However,

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hang on before we dive in,

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a couple of housekeeping things.

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Number one,

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This is your last chance to RSVP for the meetup.

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So if you are going to be in Virginia,

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last chance,

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playtherapypodcast.com/meetup,

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you have to RSVP.

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I need a headcount and I have to

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solidify everything for that.

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That will be this Friday,

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the 7th at 6:30 Eastern.

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So that was issue number one,

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issue number 2.

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I am very excited to announce

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that.

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March 28th,

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April 4th,

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and April 11th,

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3 Fridays in a row,

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I am presenting

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Advanced Pillars

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with Corwell.

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So

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for those of you that want to do a really deep dive into the four pillars,

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this is for you.

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This will be 9 collective hours of CEUs approved by APT through Corwell.

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It will be 3 Fridays in a row,

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3 hours each day.

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We'll do reflecting feelings.

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One week we will do limit setting one week and

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we will do choice giving and encouragement the third week.

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So if you would like to get CEUs,

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if you would like to partner with

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me in Corwell in getting CCPT training,

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please go to playtherapypodcast.com/4pillars as in the number

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pillars.

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Here's why you're going there

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because

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March 10th,

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which is in 6 days,

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today is the 4th,

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March 10th in 6 days,

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the price is going up.

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They are running a sale right now for

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my podcast listeners and my coaching members and my

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Collective members.

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So you have until the 10th,

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if you want to save money and you want to attend,

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please go to playtherapypodcast.com/4pillars,

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and you can either do the bundle of all 9 hours or you can do

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1 or 2 or 3 of the individual

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trainings.

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So that will be March 28th,

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April 4th,

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April 11th,

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3 Fridays in a row.

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I know you all are wondering,

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OK,

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well,

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is this going to be appropriate for me?

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So I'm really new to the field.

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If I haven't done basics on these pillars,

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is advanced training going to help me?

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Yes.

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If you're on the other side of the camp,

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I've done your coaching,

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Brenna.

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I'm a podcast listener.

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I'm a Collective member.

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I've

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done a deep dive into CCPT already.

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Is this going to benefit me?

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Yes.

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My goal is that this will be in addition to any training that you've already taken

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and or this will be a foundation for you if you're getting started in the field.

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So I actually do highly recommend no matter where you are in the journey,

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this would be helpful for you.

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I'm going to dive into stuff that I've never covered before.

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I've never taught it in coaching.

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I've never talked about it on the Collective.

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This is brand new content.

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So if you

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need CEUs,

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if your renewal's coming up,

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if you just wanna hang out with me for 3 Fridays in a row,

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which would be so fun.

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You can sign up for that.

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I'm really looking forward to it.

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There's also a pre-recorded option,

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so if you can't attend live,

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you can still have access to it pre-recorded,

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but I would actually love to have you on the call.

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So

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those are the two housekeeping tips.

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Now we'll move into Sandi's question.

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So,

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let me read parts of her email and then we'll dive in.

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You talk about how kids are working through a pendulum swing,

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which I definitely see in my work.

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I see kids come in with high needs for power and control,

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and it plays out with them telling me exactly how they want me to do something,

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how they want me to say something,

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etc.

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Then I see the pendulum swing to where they are much less controlling and demanding.

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I see fewer corrections of what I'm doing or how I might say something.

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When they begin to swing and tell me things like which color do you want,

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or you pick out something that will be stolen today.

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Do I adhere to the model of returning responsibility with,

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oh,

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you know,

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in here you get to decide,

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you choose a color,

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or you know

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you're in charge in here,

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so you get to choose the stolen goods.

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Is there a point where we follow the child's lead and

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make those types of decisions because they have learned greater frustration,

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tolerance,

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and ability to manage their anxiety,

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or do we adhere to the model and return responsibility

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regardless of what progress we see the child has made?

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I think I might know the answer,

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but I want to hear it from you.

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OK,

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I always find it really funny when people ask me a question and go,

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I know what you're gonna say.

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So I'm like,

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then why are you asking me?

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OK,

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no,

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but Sandi,

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I really am glad that you emailed because this

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is gonna be so helpful for so many people.

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So even if you think you know my answer,

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I will either confirm or deny what you assumed.

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So.

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Here's where

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this falls and and kind of how we make sense of this.

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It's really not so much about where the child is in the pendulum.

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Because yes,

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early on

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there's likely going to be dictatorial power so it's going to be power and control,

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demanding authoritative,

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just you know you have to do and say exactly what

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I want when kids are in power and control grabs,

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we

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acknowledge that they are ordering us around

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and then we do what they order us to do.

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So

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you are telling me that I have to get up right now and go grab that for you.

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If it is rooted in power and control,

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we comply because that's their need.

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They need to order you around.

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They need to have control and power over you.

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So it's not so much about the pendulum,

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even though we will see that earlier on and then we will see less of that later on,

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it's really not about the pendulum,

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it's about the why.

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So if it's power and control,

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we

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do what we're told after acknowledging that they're ordering us to do it.

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Another option is learned helplessness.

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So will you get that for me?

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I can't do it.

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Can you help?

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What is that called?

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How does that work?

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Can you open this,

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those types of learned helplessness responses,

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which

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often when a pendulum swings in your description,

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they are more gentle,

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they are less demanding,

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so you might at a later point in therapy,

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have a kid that

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will be more gentle in their approach.

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So they might say,

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do you want to pick that?

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OK,

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that's different than learned helplessness route.

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If the why behind them telling you to do something.

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I

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learned helplessness.

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I can't do it.

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Will you get it?

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That's too high.

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I need you to help me.

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I don't know what to do.

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You have to do it for me.

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If there's a learned helplessness,

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we always,

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absolute on purpose,

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return responsibility.

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Regardless of where they are in the process,

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regardless of how the pendulum has swung,

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if it is a learned helplessness route,

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we always return responsibility.

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Why?

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Because the child needs to build a self-concept.

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The child needs to know that someone believes in them.

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Someone implies that they have the capacity to do this.

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Learned helplessness,

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we will always return responsibility regardless of where we are in the process.

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And then another reason why kids will sometimes

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tell us or ask us to do things is for collaborative type of play.

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When it's a back and forth relational collaborative kind of scenario.

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So,

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you're throwing a ball back and forth and the ball's near your feet.

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If we're really rigid and we're really trying to

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look at it legalistically and say never do for

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a child that which they can do for themselves,

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well,

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I shouldn't pick up this ball even though it's right by my feet

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because that's doing something for a child they can do for themselves.

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But if you're tossing a ball back and forth

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and it's collaborative play and it's relational engagement.

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It would just be

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natural and appropriate

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for you to grab it because it's by you.

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And then you toss it back.

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And

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another similar scenario

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is a child will collaboratively

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Involve you.

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In other words,

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both of the little girl's hands are full.

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She has

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I don't know,

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glue and scissors in one hand and she

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has construction paper and pipe cleaners in another,

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and then she says,

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you grab the scissors.

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Well,

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I don't know if I said scissors were in her hand,

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but whatever.

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You get the point.

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So both of her hands are full,

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and then she says,

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hey,

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will you grab the such and such for me?

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Or,

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hey,

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you,

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you grab those two things,

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we could say,

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oh,

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you'd really like me to grab that for you,

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but that's something you can do.

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But we're missing the why.

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The why is my hands are full,

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it makes sense that you would collaboratively help.

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It's not because I don't think that I

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can't do it.

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It's not that I'm ordering you around,

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it's just collaborative in nature.

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And so if that's the why,

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we typically want to say,

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oh,

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you'd like me to help you with that.

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But it has to be rooted in that

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cause.

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So,

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Sandi,

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thank you for the question.

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I hope that that helps tease apart the different

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reasons why kids will tell us to do things.

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And this really is a clinical judgment call.

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We have to know the child,

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we have to know their root issues,

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we have to know their thematic and symbolic play.

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And we need to have our finger on the pulse of what's driving the request

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and therefore then we can adjust accordingly

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so I don't think there's ever just a blanket rule we

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always do what we're told or we never do what we're told

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it's much more nuanced than that.

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It's actually very much a clinical in the moment decision.

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Why is the child ordering us around and then

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what would be the most therapeutically helpful response?

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So Sandi,

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thanks a lot for your question.

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I hope that that's helpful to a lot of you because we get told to do lots of

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things in the playroom and sometimes it's tricky to

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know exactly the most adherent way to respond.

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All right,

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so if you would like to reach out to me,

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I'd love to hear from you,

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brenna@thekidcounselor.com,

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and

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I am traveling this week to Virginia,

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so

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I will

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return on Sunday and looking forward to

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the Collective calls and the coaching calls again.

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It's going to be cold in Virginia,

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y'all.

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This Florida girl is gonna be very cold,

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but I'm excited about that.

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So I will

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see you when I get back.

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We'll talk soon.

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Love y'all.

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Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.