Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) vs. Back to the Future (1985): Part 3

<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, welcome back. At the beginning of some of
<v Speaker 1>these episodes, we like to give a shout out to
<v Speaker 1>some of our fans. We have one in particular on Facebook.
<v Speaker 2>His name is Ken Wilson Junior. He really jumped into
<v Speaker 2>a discussion we had regarding Raiders and Back to the Future.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he is a Ready Player one fan and a
<v Speaker 1>super fan at that, and was turned on to our
<v Speaker 1>episode by another Gunter, And so all the gunters out there,
<v Speaker 1>we love you guys.
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoy. We're going
<v Speaker 2>to travel down some rebbit holes that we think Ready
<v Speaker 2>Player one fans play.
<v Speaker 3>Right.
<v Speaker 4>Hey, everybody, welcome back to episode three of the Raiders
<v Speaker 4>Back to the Future podcast.
<v Speaker 1>This one, we're going to take a deep dive into
<v Speaker 1>some of the big ideas of Raiders and Back to
<v Speaker 1>the Future, So listen in. Please stay tuned for our
<v Speaker 1>final episode next week, and without further ado.
<v Speaker 5>Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely Can't Be Serious podcast,
<v Speaker 5>discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten of eighties
<v Speaker 5>and nineties pop culture with your co hosts James D.
<v Speaker 5>Graves and Jason Colbn.
<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, welcome back. We talked about the intro a
<v Speaker 1>little bit with each of the movies. Let's look at
<v Speaker 1>the ordinary world that we see for the first time.
<v Speaker 1>With Indiana, he's a college professor. He is Clark Kent
<v Speaker 1>with his glasses on and no hat, no Superman cape on.
<v Speaker 1>Love it. He talks to a museum coordinator and it's
<v Speaker 1>all very plain, right. And then with Marty, you've got
<v Speaker 1>Hill Valley, which is as plain and I mean they
<v Speaker 1>wanted to make this every town America and they did
<v Speaker 1>the exact job. That square could have been the square
<v Speaker 1>that I grew up in. But both of them are
<v Speaker 1>just kind of in this humdrum world. Now, Indy has
<v Speaker 1>had adventure before.
<v Speaker 3>Marty is not no McFly ever a monitor anything in
<v Speaker 3>the history of Ill Valley.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well history is going to change.
<v Speaker 1>We call that foreshadowing. But we know nothing's ever happened
<v Speaker 1>with this guy. Right with Indy his real world, It's
<v Speaker 1>almost like this is my newspaper job so that I
<v Speaker 1>can go fight crime later.
<v Speaker 2>On when Indy is teaching and the girl has written
<v Speaker 2>on her eyelids love you Yes. Spielberg and Lucas kind
<v Speaker 2>of went round and round about this. They were arguing
<v Speaker 2>about whether Indy should be this sort of playboy James
<v Speaker 2>Bond esque character, which he kind of is, or should
<v Speaker 2>he be? It belongs in a museum, Nerdy professor.
<v Speaker 1>It's the duality of Indiana Jones. Sure. But yes, there
<v Speaker 1>was a scene that we've talked about before that was
<v Speaker 1>in the original Raiders footage, but that they cut before
<v Speaker 1>the final cut where he had been intimately involved with
<v Speaker 1>one of the students, just before Rody shows a love
<v Speaker 1>you girl.
<v Speaker 2>It was yeah, yeah, over to his apartment and she
<v Speaker 2>is clearly over there not studying, right and yeah, and
<v Speaker 2>he kicks her out before they have the big discussion
<v Speaker 2>about the boogeyman in the arc.
<v Speaker 1>And did I hear Champagne chilling in the background?
<v Speaker 2>You heard that, mister mom for a later podcast.
<v Speaker 1>And then, of course, in Marty's ordinary world, you also
<v Speaker 1>have the poor, pathetic parents who almost don't communicate with
<v Speaker 1>each other at all, the whimpy dad, the alcoholic mother
<v Speaker 1>who might have been born a nun. And so they
<v Speaker 1>are both primed for their call to adventure, which is
<v Speaker 1>about to come. So with Indy's call to adventure, we
<v Speaker 1>have the government men I want to see them for
<v Speaker 1>which again, lets you know about Indy's character and what
<v Speaker 1>he's worried about. And so they go in and they
<v Speaker 1>speak to the government men who give them this call
<v Speaker 1>like we've got this information, and they do this wonderful
<v Speaker 1>exposition point where they tell us the story without it
<v Speaker 1>seeming contrived. And it's so beautiful how they do it,
<v Speaker 1>because it's in a classroom that looks more like a cathedral.
<v Speaker 1>We've got stained glass windows church. Yeah, it looks like church.
<v Speaker 1>They're talking about God.
<v Speaker 5>God.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's just what the Hebrews thought.
<v Speaker 5>Uh, now, what's that supposed to be coming out of there?
<v Speaker 1>Fight, fire, power, God or something. And and so this
<v Speaker 1>awesome call to adventure where Indy is salivating. There's no
<v Speaker 1>resistance from him. Marty's call to adventure is a phone call.
<v Speaker 2>Well, doc, no, no, don't don't be silly. Hey, just
<v Speaker 2>one of those government man. I don't know if you've
<v Speaker 2>noticed this or not, but one of those guys kind
<v Speaker 2>of the fat guy, the guy that he's the bigger jerk,
<v Speaker 2>the two that's Porkin's from Star Wars. Oh, yes, did
<v Speaker 2>you know that?
<v Speaker 1>No, but I know that you say it. That makes
<v Speaker 1>total sense. The fat X.
<v Speaker 2>Wing pilot that gets blown up in the Battle of
<v Speaker 2>the Death Stars.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, of course it can object.
<v Speaker 2>I can hold it.
<v Speaker 1>Porkins, you know, so inappropriate. Poor guy, Poor guy who
<v Speaker 1>got to be in two of the biggest movies of.
<v Speaker 2>All time three if you count Batman.
<v Speaker 1>Was he the like the Fat Inspector and Batman? Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow?
<v Speaker 2>Where you've been spending you a nights?
<v Speaker 1>What a career?
<v Speaker 2>It's the guy who gets your shoot him right before
<v Speaker 2>he drops him the bat.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay, so they both have their call to adventure.
<v Speaker 1>And we got a bit of a warning from our
<v Speaker 1>mentors here right in Indy's situation, we have Brody warning him.
<v Speaker 2>She'll still be with him.
<v Speaker 4>Possibly Marian's that needs to go worries right now, I
<v Speaker 4>believe me.
<v Speaker 2>What do you mean?
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean that nearly three thousand years Man must
<v Speaker 4>been searching for the lost doc.
<v Speaker 2>That's something to be taken lightly. No one knows it's secrets.
<v Speaker 2>It's like nothing you've ever gone after perform.
<v Speaker 1>You're not concerned about the right thing here talking about
<v Speaker 1>Mary and this is some big deal stuff.
<v Speaker 2>Right, arc is not of this earth?
<v Speaker 1>Right? And then with Marty you at least have some
<v Speaker 1>explanation as to why things happen, the need for plutonium.
<v Speaker 1>This you know what can happen when you go back
<v Speaker 1>and forth in time. The real warning, unfortunately, doesn't happen
<v Speaker 1>until it's already too late for him, which is, you
<v Speaker 1>can't go start hanging out in Hill Valley because you
<v Speaker 1>may unalterably affect the future.
<v Speaker 2>Right, And he gets back from nineteen twenty five.
<v Speaker 1>Doctor, he's already there, so it's too late, right. So
<v Speaker 1>then at this, you know, then we crossed the threshold.
<v Speaker 1>Indy leaves on the plane somehow the Nazis already know
<v Speaker 1>about him, already following him. By the way, how do
<v Speaker 1>you pronounce the tote tote? Yes, So there's this moment,
<v Speaker 1>interestingly where he's reading that Life magazine as they're both
<v Speaker 1>they've both boarded the same plane. And I've always I
<v Speaker 1>wondered about that Life magazine because it kind of looks
<v Speaker 1>like like a Nazi kid on the front cover. As
<v Speaker 1>it turns out, it's actually a kid from West Point.
<v Speaker 1>And that was the second issue of Life magazine that
<v Speaker 1>was ever made. This movie takes place in nineteen thirty six.
<v Speaker 1>That was the November nineteen thirty six edition of Life,
<v Speaker 1>and the kid on the front is a little soldier
<v Speaker 1>student from West Point. And then we've got the they
<v Speaker 1>both moved towards crossing the threshold and they're both attacked by.
<v Speaker 2>Terrorists, right right.
<v Speaker 1>So Indy, you know, Indy goes and is on his
<v Speaker 1>way to this new world. Marty doesn't realize where he's
<v Speaker 1>about to go. But they both get attacked, Indy by
<v Speaker 1>the goons and Nepal along with toads, and Marty by
<v Speaker 1>the Libyans. Oh my god, they found me. I don't
<v Speaker 1>know how, but they found me.
<v Speaker 2>Who who?
<v Speaker 5>What do you think?
<v Speaker 1>I don't know I found me if they fought well,
<v Speaker 1>maybe it was your giant truck with the name Doc
<v Speaker 1>Brown written on the side of it.
<v Speaker 2>So the Libyans can't show up at Twin Pines Mall.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know when we talk about Twin Pines Mall,
<v Speaker 2>but this is a big deal later on, right right.
<v Speaker 1>As I said earlier, every single thing in Back to
<v Speaker 1>the Future is either a setup or a payoff of
<v Speaker 1>a setup that has already happened, and Twin Pines Mall, interestingly,
<v Speaker 1>we get a little bit of that setup just before
<v Speaker 1>Marty travels back in time, where Old Man Peabody had
<v Speaker 1>this crazy idea about breeding pine trees.
<v Speaker 2>I love that look after he says that to you.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I just can't think of anybody
<v Speaker 1>but Michael J. Fox in this position. He took something
<v Speaker 1>that was sort of funny and made it really funny
<v Speaker 1>just by his looks and his delivery alone.
<v Speaker 2>Yep, yep. And Chris Lloyd was an absolute home run.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. Yeah. So the setup for Twin Pines, you know,
<v Speaker 1>Marty goes back in time and ultimately there's another bit
<v Speaker 1>of a chase where he's running from the shotgun blast
<v Speaker 1>of old Man Peabody. Also, by the way, another name
<v Speaker 1>that you do not see until the credits is the
<v Speaker 1>name of old Man Peabody's son who's got the comics magazine,
<v Speaker 1>and his name is I can't remember, Sherman Peaboddy.
<v Speaker 2>Hello there Peabody.
<v Speaker 5>Here, what fa is?
<v Speaker 3>Nachel?
<v Speaker 2>I said it to today, mister Peabody. October nineteenth, seventeen
<v Speaker 2>eighty one.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Sherman and Peabody, the old the old cartoon where
<v Speaker 1>the dog and the boy used to travel back in time.
<v Speaker 2>That's cool, Hey, I want to circle back on one thing
<v Speaker 2>that has always bothered me. So in my opinion, these
<v Speaker 2>are two perfect movies. We're comparing the Mona Lisa to
<v Speaker 2>Storry Night. Okay, okay, But one of the things that
<v Speaker 2>when the Libyans pull up and shoot Doc, the dude
<v Speaker 2>unloads his clip, it's like forty shots to the chest. Ye, right,
<v Speaker 2>it's that you go back and look at how many shots.
<v Speaker 2>And I'm just I'm wondering to myself, Okay, bulletproof vests,
<v Speaker 2>but man, that many bullets and not one of them
<v Speaker 2>in the face.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what if he'd shot you in the face. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>that was our chance. We're willing to take it. So
<v Speaker 1>here's the question that I have is Marty's about to
<v Speaker 1>go as he's running from the Libyans and he says,
<v Speaker 1>let's see if these badgards can do ninety. Yes, does
<v Speaker 1>he know he's about to go back in time? I
<v Speaker 1>don't know, what do you think? Well, here's my problem.
<v Speaker 1>It seems like he's not thinking about that. It seems
<v Speaker 1>like going back in time is a big surprise to him.
<v Speaker 1>And he says ninety very well, knowing that it's eighty
<v Speaker 1>eight that's going to make him go back in time. Right,
<v Speaker 1>But the problem is he's headed straight for the photo map.
<v Speaker 2>That's true. Why why would you drive straight at the
<v Speaker 2>photo right?
<v Speaker 1>So one thing leads me to believe he didn't know
<v Speaker 1>he was going back in time, but the direction he's
<v Speaker 1>headed made me believe the other thing. But maybe they
<v Speaker 1>just needed that so that the Libyans had something to
<v Speaker 1>crash into.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, based on what I know about Marty's character,
<v Speaker 2>sort of a fly by the seat of your pants.
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying, no, no, he wasn't thinking that he was
<v Speaker 1>just going to dodge around the mat. I'm just doing
<v Speaker 1>the best I can at this moment, so real quick.
<v Speaker 1>When Indy crosses the threshold, we have this amazing scene
<v Speaker 1>as he comes into Marian's bar, and the setup for
<v Speaker 1>Marion is amazing. The character is one that gives us
<v Speaker 1>both feminine power and damsel in distress at just the
<v Speaker 1>right moments. Yes, so he walks in and we understand
<v Speaker 1>that there's a history here. You know, we've gotten the
<v Speaker 1>we've gotten her theme as they call it a bit before,
<v Speaker 1>when Indy's talking about you know, do you think she's
<v Speaker 1>still going to be with him? But we know that
<v Speaker 1>history is there, and he walks in and we don't
<v Speaker 1>see him once again. The light effect on.
<v Speaker 2>This the shadow and the hat.
<v Speaker 1>We see the shadow of the unmistakable silhouette of Indiana
<v Speaker 1>on the wall, and he's gigantic. Oh, Marian, he's taking
<v Speaker 1>up the whole screen. And she's a small little girl
<v Speaker 1>like she was.
<v Speaker 2>Then she moves forward.
<v Speaker 1>And suddenly she's as big, if not bigger than the
<v Speaker 1>shadow on the wall.
<v Speaker 2>Always knew someday you'd come walking back through my dar.
<v Speaker 1>As though she's overcome what he put her through in
<v Speaker 1>the past. And then in just in case you had
<v Speaker 1>any doubt at all, the moment he's not looking at her,
<v Speaker 1>she punches him in the face.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, she decks him, and it's a fool on. It's
<v Speaker 2>not a Willie Scott punch. This is a Marian raven
<v Speaker 2>Wood Haymaker, absolutely, and she lands it and Indi CX
<v Speaker 2>like it's the hardest punch he takes the entire movie. Right,
<v Speaker 2>So let's talk a little bit about Indy's morality. After
<v Speaker 2>the punch, Marian says, I've learned to hate you in
<v Speaker 2>the last ten years, right, okay, seeming to mean that
<v Speaker 2>ten years ago we had a relationship that has since
<v Speaker 2>been dead. If she's twenty six or seven.
<v Speaker 1>We'n go with twenty nine.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you're choosing to believe the best of Indy here.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because if I get too far, if she's twenty six,
<v Speaker 1>he's a dirty old man, right, I don't want him
<v Speaker 1>to be a dirty old man. So she was nineteen
<v Speaker 1>and now she's.
<v Speaker 2>Twenty nine, all right, okay, what do you think?
<v Speaker 1>Well?
<v Speaker 2>I disagree with that because what she says to him
<v Speaker 2>is I was young, I was in love.
<v Speaker 1>It was wrong, and you knew it right. And he says,
<v Speaker 1>you knew what you're doing right. Basically you're seventeen, but
<v Speaker 1>it didn't matter because you love me anyway, or eighteen
<v Speaker 1>or nineteen.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, I think that I was a child.
<v Speaker 2>She said I was a child.
<v Speaker 1>Right now, If she was an actual child, obviously he
<v Speaker 1>can't be anybody's hero, and we need to throw this
<v Speaker 1>movie into the fire.
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't want to do that.
<v Speaker 1>But I think figuratively speaking and comparatively speaking, like she's
<v Speaker 1>nineteen and he's twenty eight. Yeah, maybe twenty six. I
<v Speaker 1>feel like that maybe Harrison Ford was in his mid
<v Speaker 1>thirties at this point and she was in her late twenties,
<v Speaker 1>and so yeah, comparatively, the difference between a nineteen year
<v Speaker 1>old and twenty six year old, especially in that time,
<v Speaker 1>could be huge.
<v Speaker 2>Sure, And I'm not lobbying for this thing. I just
<v Speaker 2>want to just kind.
<v Speaker 1>Of there's definitely, you know, there's definitely a contingent out
<v Speaker 1>there that has analyzed this and gone dirty old man.
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, I love Indy, He's my hero. I don't
<v Speaker 2>want him to be a dirty old man. I do
<v Speaker 2>know that Lucas Spielberg and Lawrence Castin sat down and
<v Speaker 2>they wanted this vague idea of an inappropriate relationship, right,
<v Speaker 2>but it's never really fleshed out. But it goes back
<v Speaker 2>to is Indy a good guy? Is he a bad guy?
<v Speaker 2>Is he just an unperfect guy?
<v Speaker 1>Well, and I think you know, I don't know if
<v Speaker 1>you've gone back and watched any of the old James
<v Speaker 1>Bond movies that were coming out in the seventies, but
<v Speaker 1>I mean there are many times in those movies that
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, God, James Bond is a pig. So let's
<v Speaker 1>just assume she was eighteen, he was twenty six.
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't that horrible, Okay, overreacting, Yeah, okay.
<v Speaker 1>And then we see her out drinking, the biggest Nepalese
<v Speaker 1>hiker in the bar, tough hits indy, tough, talks tough.
<v Speaker 1>When the bad guys even come in, she has this
<v Speaker 1>moment where she blows smoke into Tode's face. That's just classic,
<v Speaker 1>used it, no, I mean, her bravado is amazing. And
<v Speaker 1>then once the once the s starts to hit the fan,
<v Speaker 1>she becomes the damsel in distress and the hero shows
<v Speaker 1>back up again.
<v Speaker 2>But and who wouldn't with a red hot poker in
<v Speaker 2>your face?
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Sure?
<v Speaker 2>So Toad shows up, says, your fire's dying, pulls out
<v Speaker 2>the red hot poker, and basically forces her to tell
<v Speaker 2>me where the head piece in the stack rocks. Right,
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you everything. Yes, And he shows up, pulls
<v Speaker 2>out the whip, and you get this great sound effect
<v Speaker 2>this book. Let her go, pull the poker out of
<v Speaker 2>his hand, sets the place on the fire, and here we.
<v Speaker 1>Go, right, the old world burns down, like you know,
<v Speaker 1>the old world is burning down, which lets us know
<v Speaker 1>we're about to go somewhere that it's completely right. Right
<v Speaker 1>in the midst of the fight, we still have this
<v Speaker 1>kind of duality and the anti hero and the imperfect
<v Speaker 1>hero because Indy's struggling. I mean, it's not like he
<v Speaker 1>just goes and kicks everybody's button. It's over it is,
<v Speaker 1>I'm struggling here, and so she has to come to
<v Speaker 1>his rescue a couple of times.
<v Speaker 2>She saves his butt, shoots that guy.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that's right, right, And just when he thinks he's
<v Speaker 1>gonna get shot, she shoots.
<v Speaker 2>The German boxer brawler that he punches out at the
<v Speaker 2>plane fight later in the movie is actually one of
<v Speaker 2>these Nepalese guys who's fighting him in the bar. It's
<v Speaker 2>the guy that swings at him with his burning arm.
<v Speaker 2>And he's actually the same guy in templea Doom that
<v Speaker 2>Indy hits in the head with a big rock. So
<v Speaker 2>I think Indy actually kills the same actor three different times.
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me say this real quick, just on the
<v Speaker 1>swinging fire thing. We're talking about how good these movies are,
<v Speaker 1>and that you're talking about two perfection movies. If I
<v Speaker 1>have to point out a flaw, the bar fight scene
<v Speaker 1>has got some in it. The absurdly slow swinging of
<v Speaker 1>the burning arm is a.
<v Speaker 2>Bit ridiculous, deliberate.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, right, when Tote says shoot them, shoot them both
<v Speaker 1>their shadow. You see the shadow on the wall behind
<v Speaker 1>the two guys who are you know, Indie and the
<v Speaker 1>guy he's fighting before they both decide to turn and shoot.
<v Speaker 1>And then the guy who crosses the screen from the right,
<v Speaker 1>even though we just saw him in the back, it
<v Speaker 1>doesn't make any sense at all, Right, there's not quite
<v Speaker 1>perfection in that scene.
<v Speaker 2>Also, when Tote burns his hand on the headpiece of
<v Speaker 2>this stuff raw, he holds it for like thirty right,
<v Speaker 2>who is he Daffy Duck?
<v Speaker 1>And then the idea that a burn like that would
<v Speaker 1>just create perfect lines that were legible in your hand
<v Speaker 1>is just completely.
<v Speaker 2>It does get the movie going in the red duration.
<v Speaker 1>Right, I guess you got to make some concessions. I
<v Speaker 1>am troubled by those scenes.
<v Speaker 2>What is it looks like an airplane? Well, the air
<v Speaker 2>bla look.
<v Speaker 1>Then to end Marty's struggle, he throws himself into this
<v Speaker 1>unknown world and then all of a sudden people are
<v Speaker 1>shooting at him because they think he's an alien.
<v Speaker 2>When Michael J. Fox exits the barn, this part it's
<v Speaker 2>so real and yet hilarious. Okay, he pops out, hey,
<v Speaker 2>sorry about your barn, and they shoot and he fall
<v Speaker 2>eighty trips and falls back in the barn, completely hysterical.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, and then decides, okay, I can't stick
<v Speaker 2>around here and plows out the door with.
<v Speaker 1>The right glorian right, and at which point he's still
<v Speaker 1>shooting at him, and he takes out a pine, which,
<v Speaker 1>if anything, upsets old man body more than anything that's
<v Speaker 1>happened so far, killed the pines. So and that is
<v Speaker 1>the setup that you're leading to. A moment ago, when
<v Speaker 1>Marty ultimately returns, it's no longer called the Twin Pines Mall.
<v Speaker 2>It's Loan Pine Mall.
<v Speaker 1>And Sherman Peabody is looking at this comic books. It's
<v Speaker 1>called Tales from Space, right, and Tales from Space was
<v Speaker 1>not an actual comic book. That was a made up
<v Speaker 1>thing to fit for the movie, but it was based
<v Speaker 1>upon a real comic called Tales from the Crypt, which
<v Speaker 1>was later directed by Robert Zemeckis. All right, yeah, okay,
<v Speaker 1>so it all ties together, The comic books come together.
<v Speaker 1>Oh and the Indiana Jones. This is so incredibly crazy.
<v Speaker 1>That intro scene for Indiana Jones is based on a
<v Speaker 1>comic book of Scrooge McDuck.
<v Speaker 2>I saw this, you said, this to me the other day.
<v Speaker 2>I did it is so good, the rolling ball and
<v Speaker 2>all that stuff.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was shocking to go, Oh my gosh, they've
<v Speaker 1>got the intro scene of the greatest movie of the
<v Speaker 1>eighties from a Scrooge.
<v Speaker 2>Mcdot comic book.
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk a little bit about what had gone on
<v Speaker 1>before with movies and what these movies did to change
<v Speaker 1>those things. In nineteen sixty eight, the Hayes Code, which
<v Speaker 1>was what movies had used up at that point to
<v Speaker 1>decide what was acceptable to put in a movie and
<v Speaker 1>what violated moral standards, it was done away with, and
<v Speaker 1>they started the ratings system where you know, if you
<v Speaker 1>want to see faces melt off and movies on the screen,
<v Speaker 1>then you know, you go to this movie, and if
<v Speaker 1>you don't want to see that, don't go to the
<v Speaker 1>movie that's rated R or it works. So in the
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies we see this thing that happens with action movies.
<v Speaker 1>We see an amazing amount of violence come in. We
<v Speaker 1>see the Wild Bunch, known for completely pushing the envelope
<v Speaker 1>as far as they could with violence in a movie.
<v Speaker 1>You have the dirty hairy movies, you have the death
<v Speaker 1>Wish movies, you have the Bruce Lee movies. These are
<v Speaker 1>the action movies of the day. And I got to
<v Speaker 1>tell you, as a kid who was born in seventy
<v Speaker 1>five and didn't really start watching those movies until nineteen eighty,
<v Speaker 1>I go back and I look at those things, and
<v Speaker 1>I can't say that I'm a repulse, but it makes
<v Speaker 1>me uncomfortable. I don't feel like I connect with the people,
<v Speaker 1>the action heroes that we have of those days. There
<v Speaker 1>are movies that I like to watch, but there's an
<v Speaker 1>uneasiness that comes along with it. And so what we
<v Speaker 1>have in nineteen eighty one is a reinvention of what
<v Speaker 1>had happened before. George Lucas and Steven Spielberg throw back.
<v Speaker 1>They throw back to the serials where we had the Quest,
<v Speaker 1>the Adventure, and they bring that action back in and
<v Speaker 1>it's not so unsettling. There's some gory stuff that happens,
<v Speaker 1>but it's not our protagonist that's causing the gory stuff. Right,
<v Speaker 1>He's not the one that impales the guy at the
<v Speaker 1>beginning of the movie. He's not the one that burns
<v Speaker 1>people's faces off. And when he shoots a guy in
<v Speaker 1>the movie, it's one shot in a fall and there's not.
<v Speaker 2>A lot of blood, right, Indy is a character who
<v Speaker 2>feels pain, He gets beat up, he hurts. Clint Eastwood
<v Speaker 2>didn't really act like m hurting all over right.
<v Speaker 1>He was impervious to fear and mistakes almost.
<v Speaker 2>That's what makes it so relatable is because you're beat up.
<v Speaker 2>You know, you fight a German boxer and Marion punches you.
<v Speaker 2>Three days ago, we get dragged by a truck. You're
<v Speaker 2>going to be roughed up, right, and he feels pain. Right.
<v Speaker 2>This is also the reason why I think Diehard works
<v Speaker 2>so well, but we'll talk about that laterly.
<v Speaker 1>Sure. And you know the action, they took something from
<v Speaker 1>those old cereal and they created something new. They took
<v Speaker 1>something old and they made it new again. They reinvented
<v Speaker 1>the action adventure movie with this. And I always say
<v Speaker 1>that they reinvented it. It started with Star Wars. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>just to be to be straight, George Lucas took the
<v Speaker 1>action adventure, put it in space and gave us something
<v Speaker 1>that was family friendly adventure.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 1>We don't have blood, we don't have sex. It's just
<v Speaker 1>good old family.
<v Speaker 2>Lobby For Star Wars B rated PG, it was almost
<v Speaker 2>a G rated movie.
<v Speaker 1>Had to give Han a few cusswords just to get
<v Speaker 1>into a pg drad real quick. To talk about the
<v Speaker 1>time travel movies, we're looking now at nineteen eighty five.
<v Speaker 1>You know, we talked about how Bob Zemeckis and Bob
<v Speaker 1>Gail had a whole lot of trouble getting a studio
<v Speaker 1>to get on board with this movie. They had actually
<v Speaker 1>pitched it for something like four or five years before
<v Speaker 1>it was ever greenlighted. Now, see, the thing was the
<v Speaker 1>reason that the studio was turning these guys down is
<v Speaker 1>because they didn't particularly want another time travel movie. They
<v Speaker 1>were in that uncomfortable not dirty enough, but too dirty,
<v Speaker 1>too unsettling. Sorry, how about we do an Oedipus show?
<v Speaker 1>How about that? And then the time travel movies that
<v Speaker 1>were going on at that time. Let's We've got Somewhere
<v Speaker 1>in Time, and then we had the Final Countdown, You've
<v Speaker 1>got the Philadelphia Experiment, and then you have Time Bandits.
<v Speaker 1>I love Time Bedits, but it's not at the same
<v Speaker 1>scale that Back to the Future is. Oh no. And
<v Speaker 1>then Time after Time. H. G. Wells is actually invented
<v Speaker 1>a time machine and Jack the Ripper uses the time
<v Speaker 1>machine to go into the future, and H. G. Wells
<v Speaker 1>chases after him to bring him back, and so it's HG.
<v Speaker 1>Wells and Jack the Ripper in nineteen seventy nine, and
<v Speaker 1>kind of the key idea of the movie is something
<v Speaker 1>that Jack the Ripper says.
<v Speaker 2>Ninety years ago, I was a freak. Today I'm an amuser.
<v Speaker 1>It's just about how bad society had gotten at that point.
<v Speaker 1>And then HG. Wells happens to fall in love with
<v Speaker 1>a young girl from nineteen seventy nine who was making
<v Speaker 1>I think her second movie. This actress was in and
<v Speaker 1>her name was Mary Steam Virgin. Wow, we see again
<v Speaker 1>and just a few Yeah, exactly right, cool, cool.
<v Speaker 2>I need to see this movie.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I really, I had hoped to see it before
<v Speaker 1>we did this episode, but I will be watching Time
<v Speaker 1>after Time at some time in the future. Raiders has
<v Speaker 1>reinvented the action adventure movie, and Back to the Future
<v Speaker 1>has reinvented the time travel movie. So let's let's again,
<v Speaker 1>let's compare what Indy and Marty are going through, all right,
<v Speaker 1>and these you know this is this is a key
<v Speaker 1>idea for me. You know that I loved watching Indiana
<v Speaker 1>and I you know, could think it'd be cool to
<v Speaker 1>be him. When I watched Marty do the skateboarding things,
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I could see that happening to me,
<v Speaker 1>like I could beat him. I actually, it's like a
<v Speaker 1>believable thing to me that it could that it could
<v Speaker 1>be him. And you've got fight scenes that seem realistic.
<v Speaker 1>They are one or two punches and then you're running away.
<v Speaker 2>Right, I know how to trip guys when the guy
<v Speaker 2>is not looking at me. I might could trip.
<v Speaker 1>The bully right right.
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to shoot any swordsmen anytime soon, but right. So,
<v Speaker 2>like I said, Raiders is a movie that I'd seen
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of times. Loved the movie. So in nineteen eighty nine,
<v Speaker 2>I had a Spanish teacher a little bit out of
<v Speaker 2>touch but very nice, wanted to do a special treat
<v Speaker 2>for my Spanish class. So she brought in a movie
<v Speaker 2>for our Spanish class to watch in Spanish.
<v Speaker 1>Or all Spanish teachers a little bit that.
<v Speaker 2>Way, not my wife. My wife is a Spanish teacher,
<v Speaker 2>so I'm gonna be easy about how I nudge the
<v Speaker 2>Spanish teachers here. So anyway, she says, hey, class, I've
<v Speaker 2>got a movie for us to watch today. We're gonna
<v Speaker 2>watch it in Spanish, and I'll pose it frequently and
<v Speaker 2>we'll see if you can tell what's going on. So
<v Speaker 2>she puts in raiders in Spanish. So after twenty minutes,
<v Speaker 2>you know, or whatever, thirty minutes, she pauses it. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>does anybody know what's going on?
<v Speaker 1>Raise my hand?
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, Yeah, the government guys are here and they're
<v Speaker 2>offering him a chance to chase down the arc, but
<v Speaker 2>they won't.
<v Speaker 3>You know.
<v Speaker 2>Wow, very good, Miguel. Yeah, that's my Spanish name. So
<v Speaker 2>we push play, watch some more pos it. Does anyone
<v Speaker 2>know what's going on? Raise my hand? Yeah. The staff
<v Speaker 2>is too, they're looking in the wrong place. They've got
<v Speaker 2>the wrong side of the head piece of the staff
<v Speaker 2>of rag.
<v Speaker 1>Forgot to take one back.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very good, Miguel. I can't believe you. So this
<v Speaker 2>goes on, and she's amazed at my Spanish confidency. She
<v Speaker 2>didn't know I'd seen this movie ten thousand times. Oh
<v Speaker 2>that's brilliant. Let's talk for a moment about the Indiana
<v Speaker 2>Jones fight in the Cairo streets, the basket chase. And
<v Speaker 2>you and I have talked off the air about this before, right,
<v Speaker 2>this is another imperfection that you don't really like and
<v Speaker 2>I kind of agree with you, all right, talk about.
<v Speaker 1>That, Okay, So it is frustrating to me how how
<v Speaker 1>Marian's in the basket and the truck blows up and
<v Speaker 1>then somehow she's still alive without to switch the baskets.
<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't there's just not that's not possible in
<v Speaker 1>the scenes as you watch the scenes, right, I mean
<v Speaker 1>unless unless the guy who's got his face all covered
<v Speaker 1>up in the black is David copper Field, not possible
<v Speaker 1>for that switch to have occurred, and it.
<v Speaker 2>Was a switch. And why would they put a basket
<v Speaker 2>full of laundry truck with explosives.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, that's a bit of that's a bit
<v Speaker 1>absurd too. Just oh the truck fell over boom. What again,
<v Speaker 1>We've got Wiley coyote driving the truck so that it
<v Speaker 1>explodes upon impact.
<v Speaker 2>So that's that's the scene that you have trouble with. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>there's a scene that I have trouble with the Back
<v Speaker 2>of the Future, which we'll get to that here in a
<v Speaker 2>little bit. Talk about the Swordman fight. Yes, Raiders lost start. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>so they're shooting in Tunisia, right, Steven Spielberg has imported
<v Speaker 2>all this spaghettios from England, each out of a.
<v Speaker 1>Camp right, well, he imported them in a suitcase. Like
<v Speaker 1>he was like, Okay, we're going to a place that
<v Speaker 1>we've never been to before. They don't have the same
<v Speaker 1>health standards that we do. I'm going to bring some
<v Speaker 1>food with me.
<v Speaker 2>And he was the only one who didn't have major
<v Speaker 2>stomach issues.
<v Speaker 1>While they're shooting, right, every actor and actress got sick.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, John Rays Davis, who plays Sala, apparently.
<v Speaker 1>Soiled himsel.
<v Speaker 2>Let the let the squirrel go in his drawers while
<v Speaker 2>shooting a scene, not just walking, I mean like they
<v Speaker 2>were filming.
<v Speaker 1>But he kept on going.
<v Speaker 2>Well, good for him. Yeah, cut cut.
<v Speaker 1>By the way. On that same topic of Marian, obviously
<v Speaker 1>everybody thinks she's dead at this moment. Sala's reaction to that,
<v Speaker 1>did you heard about Mary? There is dead?
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I know, I'm sorry, goes on all right, Well,
<v Speaker 3>life must go on that what kind of I mean,
<v Speaker 3>you love that guy, but I mean he's.
<v Speaker 1>Not a good guy to have around at the funeral.
<v Speaker 2>They're moving quickly, moving on.
<v Speaker 1>Got no time to dwell on the death of your
<v Speaker 1>one true love is dead?
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I know, life goes on.
<v Speaker 1>And so let's talk about the enemies. So let's talk
<v Speaker 1>about Bellock for just a moment.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, So.
<v Speaker 1>There are some big ideas with both of these movies,
<v Speaker 1>but let's real quick look at the big ideas that
<v Speaker 1>go along with Raiders of the Lost Arc. One of
<v Speaker 1>the big ideas is wisdom and knowledge, and this movie
<v Speaker 1>lets us believe that being smart is cool, and that
<v Speaker 1>wasn't so much a thing at that particular time in history.
<v Speaker 1>That was, but this movie says it's okay. Our tomb
<v Speaker 1>raider is not just some witless thief. He is a
<v Speaker 1>college professor. And even our villain beats our hero because
<v Speaker 1>he has superior knowledge. We see it at the very
<v Speaker 1>beginning of the movie. You could warn them if only
<v Speaker 1>you spoke covitos right space. It is Indy's lack of
<v Speaker 1>education that leads him to fail at the beginning of
<v Speaker 1>the movie. And then Bellock, even as we in the
<v Speaker 1>bar scene where just before he gets saved by Sola's kids,
<v Speaker 1>Bellock even has the wisdom to appreciate the power of
<v Speaker 1>the arc, which for this for the whole movie, Indy
<v Speaker 1>has scoffed at to him. The arc is something historical going.
<v Speaker 2>After a find incredible historical significance. You're talking about the Boogeyman.
<v Speaker 1>Belloc says, it is like a radio for speaking to God.
<v Speaker 1>He knows that there's more to the arc than just
<v Speaker 1>the historical significance of the true. So those are some
<v Speaker 1>major that's a major, big idea that's going on with him.
<v Speaker 2>One of the other things that Bellock himself talks to
<v Speaker 2>Indy about, and clearly Indy doesn't like it, but Bellock
<v Speaker 2>tells him, you are just a shadowy reflection of me. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>it would just take a nudge for you to be
<v Speaker 2>exactly like me. Right, and he's exactly right. Na getting
<v Speaker 2>messd You know, it's true.
<v Speaker 1>That's it. It's the good and the evil and the complacent, right.
<v Speaker 1>Our American is the hero. Yes, so we think he's good.
<v Speaker 1>We kind of have that idea. At least you could
<v Speaker 1>have a beer with him or something. Right, and the
<v Speaker 1>Nazis are obviously bad, but Belloc, he is working with
<v Speaker 1>these bad guys, but it's just kind of a means
<v Speaker 1>to an end, right, he has his own selfish motivations.
<v Speaker 2>What about your boss? I thought he was waiting to
<v Speaker 2>take possession.
<v Speaker 1>All in good time when I'm finished with But like
<v Speaker 1>you just noted, Indy isn't too far off from where
<v Speaker 1>he is. His concern is with the arc, not with
<v Speaker 1>the politics of the Nazis. That doesn't seem to be
<v Speaker 1>an issue for him. And like you said, Bellock says
<v Speaker 1>to him, you and I are very much alike. Archaeology
<v Speaker 1>is our religion. You know.
<v Speaker 2>I would even go so far as to say there's
<v Speaker 2>at least twice that Bellock saves Marian Oh yeah, you know.
<v Speaker 1>Again selfish motivations.
<v Speaker 2>But he's He definitely did not want her pushed into
<v Speaker 2>the well.
<v Speaker 1>He didn't want to thrown into the well souls.
<v Speaker 2>So he's not a total bad guy, right, I.
<v Speaker 5>Have to be going now today, I like you very much,
<v Speaker 5>perhaps need.
<v Speaker 2>Something better sense.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, so there there's our there's our villain.
<v Speaker 2>Yes for raiders. Now let's talk about Biff. What are
<v Speaker 2>you looking at, butt head?
<v Speaker 1>He is the classic bully, right, Like I mean, you
<v Speaker 1>could be more stereotypical bully than Biff. And again it's
<v Speaker 1>all set up and payoff. But he's a guy. You
<v Speaker 1>don't feel compassion for him. He's just a jerk, and
<v Speaker 1>he's a dumb jerk.
<v Speaker 2>He's a dumb jerk, and he is like every bully
<v Speaker 2>you've ever met. He's not evil, but he's a not
<v Speaker 2>somebody you would ever want to be with. Trust I mean,
<v Speaker 2>he's a bad dude. And that that starts to turn
<v Speaker 2>during the scene where he's got Lorraine in the car.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely so see he moves from being merely a bully
<v Speaker 1>to a potential rapist, which makes that payoff scene so
<v Speaker 1>much more better. So much more better I did I
<v Speaker 1>said that, thank you this class.
<v Speaker 2>From what I've read Thomas Wilson, Thomas Wilson is a
<v Speaker 2>super nice guy. Oh yeah, like in real life, this
<v Speaker 2>is not who he is.
<v Speaker 1>So the bully persona is kind of what was the
<v Speaker 1>impetus behind Bob Gaile writing this movie. I mean it's
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't specifically say bully, but the movie comes from
<v Speaker 1>He was looking at an old yearbook that his dad had.
<v Speaker 1>He's flipping through it and he sees a picture of
<v Speaker 1>his dad as a young high school student, and his
<v Speaker 1>dad is the class president. And his thought at that
<v Speaker 1>moment is, guys, are class presidents in my class? Were
<v Speaker 1>a holes?
<v Speaker 2>Right?
<v Speaker 1>And that is he starts to think to himself, I
<v Speaker 1>wonder if I had been around when my dad when
<v Speaker 1>he was in high.
<v Speaker 2>School, if I would have even been friends with him?
<v Speaker 1>And that's you know, that is a that's a great question.
<v Speaker 1>I can't I can't answer that question because I don't
<v Speaker 1>know what my dad was like in high school. But
<v Speaker 1>I wonder I couldn't say for sure that yeah, we'd
<v Speaker 1>be we would have been great friends.
<v Speaker 2>It's a great question.
<v Speaker 1>And so the that is the big idea that we
<v Speaker 1>have in Back to the Future is family. Right this question,
<v Speaker 1>would the teenage us have liked our parents as teenagers?
<v Speaker 2>Which pop, that's him?
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, you guys, maybe we were adopted or he's
<v Speaker 1>an idiot. His parents are probably idiots, Lorraine, You ever
<v Speaker 1>have a kid that acts like that? And I'll disown you.
<v Speaker 1>And so then that leads us to the idea of
<v Speaker 1>how likely are we to relive our parents' failures or successes,
<v Speaker 1>which is the underlying theme for the whole movie. Definitely,
<v Speaker 1>you know Lorraine, as she's talking about poor uncle Joey says,
<v Speaker 1>we all make mistakes in life, and jailbird Joey, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>And then Marty says, what if they don't like it?
<v Speaker 1>What if they say, kid you're just no good. I
<v Speaker 1>don't think I could live with that kind of rejection.
<v Speaker 2>Jesus, I'm trying to tell a man, right, yep?
<v Speaker 1>So are we doomed?
<v Speaker 5>You know?
<v Speaker 1>Are we going to make the same stupid mistakes that
<v Speaker 1>our parents made? Is it unavoidable? But looking back at
<v Speaker 1>it now, I have to wonder about my own kids.
<v Speaker 1>Are they going to make the same mistakes that I made?
<v Speaker 1>What you do as a parent as you try not
<v Speaker 1>to have them go through that? But what's ingrained? What's
<v Speaker 1>going to be?
<v Speaker 2>According to Ellison from The Breakfast Club, it's unavoidable. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>but it's a great question, and it sets up a
<v Speaker 2>great movie, right, And.
<v Speaker 1>As as much of a rebel as Marty is, And
<v Speaker 1>even though it's obvious from the beginning of the movie
<v Speaker 1>that his parents embarrass him, or irritated him or frustrated
<v Speaker 1>him to no end, he's still willing.
<v Speaker 2>To sacrifice his life to save his dad, of course.
<v Speaker 2>And I think the movie does a good job of
<v Speaker 2>demonstrating that parents can learn from their children. Yeah, right,
<v Speaker 2>And George learns to be brave from Marty.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, all right, everybody. That wraps up episode three of
<v Speaker 4>Our Raiders Back the future. Come back next week for
<v Speaker 4>episode four.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and don't forget to subscribe to the Surely you
<v Speaker 1>Can't Be Serious podcasts, as well as check us out
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<v Speaker 1>check us out on YouTube too. Hey, a five star
<v Speaker 1>review wouldn't be too bad either. Thank you guys for
<v Speaker 1>tuning in. We'll see you next week. All music images
<v Speaker 1>and movie clips are used for the purposes of commentary
<v Speaker 1>and education in conjunction with the fair Use Agreement under
<v Speaker 1>the US copyright law.