#412 - Brandy Clark on Winning A Tony After Working on 'Shucked' for 10 Years + Learning From Failure + Her Love of Magic Johnson + What Brandie Carlie Was Like as Her Producer

00:00:06
Speaker 1: I said, I always felt like I needed something to hook somebody in. And she said, what do you mean? And I said, well, I had to be like good in sports and then good in music to hook people in. And she's like, no, that's what you need to hook you.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: In episode four twelve with Brandy Clark, Brandy's the best as a songwriter, as an artist. I love her as a person. I just really enjoy spending time with her. And I don't get to see her as much as I like. You know, we'll do this once a year. We'll see each other out occasionally, and it's always I wish we could stop and talk more about we're at an award show or we're here there. So I really value this time with Brandy. You can follow her at the Brandy Clark on Instagram. She got a new album. I'm going to play you some of Buried You Dumb. Here's a little bit of a song called Northwest.

00:01:00
Speaker 1: My Heart to start with.

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Speaker 2: And she smoked in the house.

00:01:07
Speaker 1: She smoked in the house, would throw nothing up, She'd cut them off.

00:01:12
Speaker 2: It's about her grandma. She's so great as an artist. And we really start talking about Chucked the musical at first, because I had just seen an Instagram post maybe from Shane because they were nominated and they even won an award for Shucked. I don't know anything about Broadway musicals me either. I've seen a couple. But there are times where she's been involved in it for so long because they wrote all the music to it, and where she would say things because she's been in it. I was like, hold on, I don't know what that means. Sometimes people have to do that with me with this job. I'll be like a spot. Hey, They're like, what is the spot?

00:01:44
Speaker 1: Oh?

00:01:44
Speaker 2: Sorry, it's a commercial. So I don't know. She's really cool. She's on tour all year with Mary Chapin Carpenter. She does stuff Brandy Carlisle, who produced her album She's All Over the Place. She's an eleven time Grammy nominee, CMA Song of the Year Award winner, and twenty two twenty three Tony nominee Brandy Clark is Awesome. Some songs that she wrote that she did not sing Miranda Lambert, Mom has Broken heart Break, the Band, Perry Better dig Two, Casey Musgraves, Follow Your Arrows, and so many more. I'll stop you yapping here. She is one of my favorites. She got a brand new album, self titled called Brandy Clark, produced by Brandy Carlyle. It's been out since the middle of May. Enjoy Brandy Clark. Gond to see you You Too. I was thinking about just you, which I do every day, and I was I guess it was Shane's story. I saw that You're the Broadway play was nominated for Tony Is that right? Yes, I'm not in that. I don't know that world.

00:02:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't either when it started. We actually ultimately we got nominated for nine Tonys. Wow. I know which one of those nominations was mine and Shane, But most people that aren't in that world just think we were nominated for nine Tonys.

00:03:05
Speaker 2: Got it? The musical.

00:03:06
Speaker 1: The musical was nominated for nine Tonys, which was pretty incredible. I mean, I think the most nominated musical was maybe twelve or thirteen this year. Yeah, so we were in there. We were, you know, in amongst the most nominated. We had one win, which was great.

00:03:22
Speaker 2: It's over now.

00:03:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you won though, well Alex Newell won great. Yeah. Yeah, so yes, our show won.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you wrote all the music for the show, right, we did yes, yeah, that's you.

00:03:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. You know, that's what I'm going to start saying. Yeah, you know, we did write the music, so I guess we did win that, Tony.

00:03:38
Speaker 2: What is it called a shot? No no? A music musical? A musical? So you wrote the music for the music.

00:03:45
Speaker 1: We wrote the music for the musical.

00:03:46
Speaker 2: That's so cool. How did you guys even have somebody reach out or did you guys? I don't even know what to ask about Shuck because I don't know what it is.

00:03:56
Speaker 1: So I can tell you the journey. It's a great, great story. So it happened started. It was over ten years from when we started to win it opened.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

00:04:05
Speaker 1: Yes, so and this is what's crazy. I went, I had made twelve stories, but it didn't have a home. I was doing a showcase for Rounder Records, and so I had we had a meeting for Shocked to interview, and so I was like, oh, we got to you know, I hope the meetings on time because I got to get to this showcase. That's how long ago it was. And basically gay Lord or Opry owned the rights to he Haw. Yes they still do.

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Speaker 2: And I've been through a couple iterations of that, but I know that from working with them personally.

00:04:39
Speaker 1: Yes, So they wanted to musicalize he Haw and Steve Buchanan at the time was running the Opry in Nashville, and he hired a book writer named Robert Horne. And for those of you that don't know musical theater, book writer writes all the spoken.

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Speaker 2: So they're called a book I don't know musical that either.

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Speaker 1: When they said a book writer, I thought Stephen King.

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Speaker 2: Yes, same Judy Bloom is what my mind went. But okay, yeah, And so.

00:05:04
Speaker 1: He hired Robert Horn. And Robert had been working on it for about a year and had an outline, and Robert felt very strongly that the music should be written by Nashville songwriters and not Broadway composers. So he wanted to come to Nashville and choose the team to write it, and so he interviewed several teams that day and he chose Shane and myself and.

00:05:26
Speaker 2: Ten years ago.

00:05:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so Shane's I always measure it by Shane's kids because they're ten. They were born in Palm Springs. I flew out to Palm Springs to meet him when they were a couple days old. Robert Horn lives in la He drove down to Palm Springs showed us that first we already had seen the outline, but he started kind of talking us through how to write a musical. And so those kids were born in December. The first writing appointment of that next year, which would have been twenty twenty three or twenty thirteen, we started writing and we wrote. We wrote for he Haw for a while. He hawt it in test Well with Broadway audiences, and so then it was changed to Moonshine.

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Speaker 2: The name didn't not I mean, obviously the name and the brand. If you don't know the brand, the name's not going to work for you. Yes, that's why it did seem too like Hillbilly, I guess so.

00:06:20
Speaker 1: And that was something Shane and I really fought for. We loved the idea of taking he Haw to Broadway, and we loved just the way the title looked and sounded. We actually loved everything that was going against it. But we got out voted. So then it became Moonshine that he haa musical. We opened it in Dallas with the hopes of it going to Broadway. It didn't. We got very mixed reviews. It kind of got scrapped. And then Robert Horn, once again, our book writer, won a Tony for Tutsie. He wrote the book for Tutsie, and when that happened, he had all this interest of what do you want your next show to be? And he said he wanted it to be this, and so we got new At that point, Steve Buchanan was no longer at Opry. We got a new producer, new director, you know, the opry. We had to get the underlying rights from the Opry, which we did and we just started over. It was other than Shane and Robert and myself, and it became shocked.

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Speaker 2: Did you rewrite every song?

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Speaker 1: Most of them? There are two songs that were in that Dallas production that are still in the show.

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Speaker 2: When you say mixed reviews for the Dallas production, what did the best review say that you can remember paraphrasing you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't remember because I kind of try to stay away from them. You know, probably that it was funny and that the music was catchy.

00:07:38
Speaker 2: You know.

00:07:38
Speaker 1: The worst reviews said that Ore. I'll remember those, you know that are that our leading lady was a dim bulb. I remember that really bothered me, and so when we started over to me, it became really important for her to not come across as dumb, because.

00:07:53
Speaker 2: Do you think that was a written It wasn't her the actress, never the act It was her character that was al yes, and they were talking about the character more than got it.

00:08:03
Speaker 1: And then it was you know, that original version, it played a lot on some old stereotypes that you know. I'm glad that version didn't go to Broadway because I'm from a small town. Our setting is Cobb County. To me, that's where I'm from, and so I love that people from where I'm from, Lewis County come and see it and love it. I would hate for them to come and see it and think, oh, they're making fun of rural people, because that was never the intent. But that first version I think had some of that going on in it.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting that you think that, because I'm also from a town of less than a thousand people. You know, I think there were seven hundred when I was there, and there's like five eighty now, So it's going the wrong way. Yeah, But whenever I do my comedy, I can make fun of my small town or small towns or rednecks or hill because I am one. If I was at a Broadway show and I felt like somebody that wasn't me was making fun of me, I would feel a little weird about that too.

00:09:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:09:03
Speaker 2: So the fact that that you had that kind of sensibility, well, there were.

00:09:09
Speaker 1: Things because Robert Horne, our book writer, who really he was leading the charge as far as the comedy and the tone. There were things that both Shane and I said to him were offensive as coming from a smaller town. My town was nine hundred or just country and he's from New York City. And he was so great about really listening to that, being empathetic and making some changes.

00:09:35
Speaker 2: That's really cool. At what point did you go, what point did you think this is over? Because I've had a couple of projects where I'm like it's over and then it in the end it worked out, worked itself out, or it was a TV show or something. But did you ever think it was done?

00:09:47
Speaker 1: Yes, several times, And there were times I wanted it to be over, honestly, you know, because I kept I couldn't let go of it, nor could Shane and Robert. But I started to feel at times like is this just this rabbit hole that is just taking and not giving. After Dallas, I thought it might be over. And then a couple of times after we restarted, you know, I remember we did a reading and Robert Horne said, I feel like if something doesn't happen, happen from this reading, it's done. And something would happen, yes, like meaning like an out of town theater wanted to take it because we went to we went to Connecticut and.

00:10:30
Speaker 2: A table read, So what's a reading?

00:10:32
Speaker 1: So it can be as small as a table read, or in this case, it would be where the actors, say we had thirteen or fifteen actors, they're sitting down and then when it's their turn to speak, they stand up with a with a music stand that has their script and their music on it, so they don't memorize anything. But there's no choreography.

00:10:51
Speaker 2: Who's watching this.

00:10:53
Speaker 1: Potential producers, theater owners.

00:10:57
Speaker 2: So it's like a showcase.

00:10:57
Speaker 1: It's totally like, yes, completely like a record label showcase. And I would say that the last time that I thought it might be done was right before we did our final out of town last fall in Salt Lake City at the Pioneer Theater and our producer had secured a Broadway theater for us, and then it fell through and we had never We weren't going to salt Lake with the intent of getting picked up, because that's not really where you go to get picked up. You go to Chicago or Seattle or you know, Boston to get the to get the attention of a Broadway theater owner. We were going to salt Lake because it was under the radar, we could work out some kinks. And so when that theater fell through right before Salt Lake, I had hesitation to even go to salt Lake because because I thought, oh, man, I know we're not going to get a Broadway theater coming out of Salt Lake. What are we doing? And then a couple of days later we had another theater. So that was that was the last time I thought this might fall apart.

00:12:02
Speaker 2: Was there ever a moment where it was the total opposite after Salt Lake where you go, oh, not only is this not falling apart, this is just clicking the right exact way.

00:12:13
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm probably get emotional talking about it the first preview because I realized I had prepared myself for it to fail, because you know, most do. And and also in all those years, you're hearing way more criticism than you're hearing praise. You know, you you watch the show, be it in Salt Lake or be it a reading in New York City, and you everybody that's on the creative team, from the director to the choreographer to the music director to all of us to the the lead producer, you get in a room and you talk about what's not right. Yes, And so we had been talking about that in this last iteration for five years. So the first preview, when those people reacted the way they did, which was a mis mid first act standing ovation, you know, standing ovation at the end.

00:13:06
Speaker 2: What's a mid first act standing ovation that's not interrupting the show? Yes, it is. Yes, like at the end of a singing, yes you have to part in my.

00:13:14
Speaker 1: No, no no, I love this. Alex Newall, who won the Tony sang a song called Independently Own and it blows the roof off and that got a standing ovation. It gets a standing ovation most nights, and so I kind of expected that, and especially with the first preview because there would be friends and family, but I knew it felt it felt different. And then when when when overnight, the man that worked the box office at the Neerlander Theater told me that in thirty five years he'd never seen word of mouth that quick. We had no sales, and then overnight we were selling out. And so that's when I really knew. I mean, I think I cried for about twenty four hours because I just I just couldn't believe it, and I also didn't realize how much I had prepared myself for it to not work.

00:14:07
Speaker 2: Do you think part of that because I made a little mental note when you said that a minute ago. I do the same thing with everything I try. I go to therapy, I try to get better at not have an expectation of failure. But we are in an industry where it's failure most of the time. Like most of the time it's failure, Yes, because if you're creating, you're not spending all year creating a song and going this is my one song about No, you're writing a bunch of songs. Some of those songs you're writing aren't even making it to the next level, which is do we It's just so much failure and I already I'm super insecure. So do you think that that is a bit based on being a songwriter in this town or how you grew up.

00:14:47
Speaker 1: I think it's all of it. With that, I think it was really just ten years of a lot of it getting kicked in the teeth.

00:14:54
Speaker 2: Isn't that a songwriter too?

00:14:55
Speaker 1: I mean I just accept with that you're at least getting little gl you know, Shane and I would get the show to a point where we would love it. My goal was by the time we got to Broadway, I didn't want one cringe worthy song because in every version there was always one song that made us cringe, like, oh, let's just get through this one. We know it's not right, we don't know what it is yet. But you know, when we would get the show where we loved it, we would have to make a big change, Like there would be a plot change that would maybe change nine songs.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you know, because there's a full element, like a fundamental element of the show that's changed. You can't sing about the same thing because they are the same exactly.

00:15:36
Speaker 1: Wow. And so basically what it was like, I think we wrote enough songs in those ten years for ten albums. So it was like you've been writing a record for ten years. Nine of them have been scrapped. And keep in mind nine of those records, there are songs on those records that you actually think are better than some of what's on this record that's about to come out. And so I think it was just that. And I also think we were such underdogs. You know, people called us the corn Musical, which was great. It worked for us that nobody took us us seriously, and so I think there was that element too. And I had always honestly, I would always tell people and I did believe this and still believe it. I said, we're either going to be a massive hit or a massive flop. It won't be in between. I'm betting on the hit, or I wouldn't still be in it. But I think that there was more of me that thought it might flop than I realized, And it probably is all those things.

00:16:35
Speaker 2: Walk me through because I was just looking at a picture and it just happened to pop up before you walk down. That's where my mind was before we talk about your music. But walk me through the quick plot of Shucked.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, Cobb County is a county that is or a town that's surrounded by corn. No one's ever left no one's ever come to it. The only way you can live in Cobb County is if you're born there. The corn starts to die, and that's their only way of life, so they don't know any other way. Nobody wants to leave, nobody wants to let anybody in. But there's one girl, Maizie, who's brave enough to leave and knows that the only way they're going to survive is to leave and get help. So her grandpa doesn't want her to go, her cousin doesn't want her to go, her fiance doesn't want her to go. She goes anyway. She goes to the big city of Tampa, where she sees the sign for a corn doctor and thinks, ooh, my problems are solved. She walks into the corn doctor's office, who's actually a pediatrist, but he's also a con man, and she tells him there's something wrong with my corn, and she pulls out an ear of moldy corn. He laughs and says, oh, I think you're mistaken, and she's like, no, you got to help me. If you don't help me, my whole town will perish. And a bracelet falls off of her wrist and he sees it and notices this unique stone that is under her grandpa's house, and he knows that those stones are worth something, and so he pretends to be a vegetable corn doctor and she takes him back to Cobb County and the you know, he comes back and everybody's kind of wary of him, but then they embrace him and maybe he's not such a bad guy after all. Be once he feels the love of this community, and you know, it makes her her fiance and her breakup.

00:18:29
Speaker 2: But in the end, I don't want to spoilers, okay, because I now I want to see it. Yes, now, okay, that's really cool. Congratulations. That is a process ten years. Yeah, it's almost like a relationship, like there's good times and bad times. I think it was going to make it at some point and in the end.

00:18:46
Speaker 1: And you know, Shane and Shane mcneally and I have worked on so many things, but this musical really it'sponded us for life because there were there were some bad times, you know, and there were a lot of good times. But in ten years you live a lot of life, and you know, he and I went through a lot together on it as well as Robert Horn, who's like, they're both like my brothers, and you know, we just we're going to do another one. Really yeah, I mean I don't quite know what it is yet. We're interviewing some potential ideas, but you know, the three of us are a great team, and some of that is that we can make it through some tough times.

00:19:26
Speaker 2: What's the most lasting standing ovation that you've ever gotten?

00:19:32
Speaker 1: Me?

00:19:33
Speaker 2: Like, well, performing singing. I don't know that's a question that I ask often, but whenever I hear you sing, like, I feel like my guts are moving a little bit, I think, oh, thank you because of how you are a songwriter and also your voice.

00:19:48
Speaker 1: Well, I would say I have two answers because I would say, in some ways shucked is that? Because what I love about that experience is I forget that I wrote songs, really, and so when people start to stand up and I start to stand up too, I'm like, oh wow, I'm standing up for me here. I didn't even realize it. But man, lasting standing ovation, I mean, anytime there's a standing ovation, I love it. A lot of times when I do something just me and my guitar, it's fresh in my mind right now, but I'm out right now with Mary Chapin Carpenter, who's a big musical hero of mine. And the other night I was playing and I have a song called Buried on my most recent record, and I play it in the middle of the show and and I got a partial standing ovation for that in the middle of the set.

00:20:38
Speaker 2: That's like the first act.

00:20:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that really that really hit me. Anytime there's a standing ovation, I love it. And you know, I kind of love it more when I'm out in support of someone than when it's me. That's the head you come out and they don't, you know, they that's their time to go to the bathroom or get a drink or whatever. And when you can hold them long enough that by the time you're coming off stage they've become a fan enough to stand up, it's pretty huge.

00:21:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. I never thought about it like that. If your support, because the audience they may like you, but most of them didn't go to see whoever the support is, Yeah, not you or anybody. You know, it's almost never do I go. I wonder who the sport act is for? Ben Rector. Yes, so yeah, that would be really I'd have some no confidence if it's my.

00:21:33
Speaker 1: Show and they don't stand up. I feel like I've failed.

00:21:37
Speaker 2: It's a drastic difference in the two show. Yeah, you have confidence in yourself generally.

00:21:42
Speaker 1: I have good core confidence, you know. I mean, I have insecurities, just like everybody. But I'm lucky and I guess it was my parents and that I genuinely like myself for the most part. But I think the nature of what we do makes it hard to be confident sometimes. But I have to just walk out and pretend I'm confident. I'm sure you do the same thing.

00:22:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm never confident. I'm only confident once I'm shown that I should have been confident fifteen minutes ago. Yeah, like I was already faking it. But now I'm getting some feedback that it's good. So still confident. But I really wasn't fifteen minutes ago.

00:22:21
Speaker 1: But you know, the other thing is I don't know anybody who's really great who doesn't struggle with that a little bit.

00:22:29
Speaker 2: I have a crazy imposter syndrome. Or it's I talked to my wife and if I'm like I need to go do this show, I need to do this TV show or whatever, She's like, why you don't evenly want to do it. I'm like, but if I lose momentum, I'll never get it back. Like I have this absolute fear of if I ever slow down, that I don't really have the skills or the talent to catch back up to where I am now. And if that's a poster syndrome or if it's just reality, I don't know, but I struggle with that with taking breaks because of that, I don't know that I'm very confident in a certain skill set, but I wonder, like I know what I'm driven from, fear, Like I'm driven from a small town fear. I'm creative because of similar situations. It was kind of my way out. Where did yours come from?

00:23:15
Speaker 1: Well, definitely like creativity.

00:23:18
Speaker 2: Just creativity and drive, well, my artist, the artist part of year.

00:23:23
Speaker 1: My drive definitely came from my dad. My dad was maybe the most driven person I've ever known. Whatever it was. My grandma used to say it was a good thing my dad didn't drink or smoke, because he would have been a terrible alcoholic or a chain smoker. Like, whatever it was, it was all the way. I remember when I was getting out of high school, I wanted to get into this. It was called the STP Seattle to Portland Bike Ride. It was one hundred and ninety five miles and I was going to school the next year in a basketball scholarship and needed a way to stay in shape. So I saw that as the way, and so I started training for it. One of my high school basketball coach was going to do it with me, and then he had to have a hip replacement. So two weeks before, I'm stuck without a writing partner, and my dad said he would do it with me.

00:24:10
Speaker 2: Two weeks before, two weeks before, no training.

00:24:12
Speaker 1: No training, and my dad was one of these people. My dad was in good shape, but you know it's different, and so we did the ride. We did it in two days. I remember when we got done, my dad said, I'm never getting on a bike again. That was on Sunday. By Wednesday, my dad had bought a racing bike. The next year, he did it in a paceline in eight hours. That was my dad, So I definitely got drive from him.

00:24:40
Speaker 3: Hang ty, the Bobby Cast will be right back, and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

00:24:54
Speaker 2: I've never had a drink and I can't. I don't smoke. I can't because I'll do it all. Like your grandma would say about your dad, greatest drinker of all time, I would dominate it. It'd be amazing. I've never had a single drink because I know I get obsessed or even addicted to everything, and I have those qualities throughout my family. A lot of my founders have died from addiction. So but I kind of replace addiction with an addiction to drive, and sometimes they it's easy to get confused even to myself on what they are, Like is it a drive or am I addicted to work? You know, as I try to find like some sort of worth. Your Dad's had a great example for you on drive. Do you have addictive quality? Is it an addictive quality type thing?

00:25:34
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I believe we're all kind of addicts. We just get addicted to the healthy things or not. I mean, I mean I can definitely be addicted, like to food. I mean, I wish it was a sexier addiction, but.

00:25:48
Speaker 2: I have no moderation. Yeah, yeah, none.

00:25:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like I'm either eating seriously clean or I'm postmating two pints of Jenny's ice cream and the next day I'm like where did those go? Like there's no moderation. I'm that way too. I think, I like, I'm pretty driven. Its it's a competitive thing. I wish it wasn't as competitive. I wish I have friends who are artists and they just are They just love music and you know, I mean, I love music and I love I love creating, but I also want to win. I wish sometimes I wish I didn't have that as much.

00:26:26
Speaker 2: I'm horribly competitive. Yeah, again, but all minds from insecurities. It sounds like yours was a great example. Yes, and then kind of pursuit with some of it to kind of be like or with your dad, do you think?

00:26:41
Speaker 1: Yes? And I really I lost my dad young. I was twenty not as young as some people, but I was twenty five, and those really young years of my life, I was really into sports, and I think that was because of my dad. And I'm I really feel lucky that I that that was my passion then because we were close because of that, we would have been close anyway. But I've been lucky enough to be My parents were great parents, and then as I've gotten older, my mom's also a great friend. You know, She's always my mom. But I feel lucky that I had that athletic drive young because I wasn't going to have my dad a long time. My mom was musical, and so as I got older, music sort of became the thing, and that brought her an eye even closer.

00:27:30
Speaker 2: So I think at all a part of your life though, like thirteen, Yes, it was.

00:27:33
Speaker 1: It was. I started playing guitar when I was nine, and I always just assumed everybody's mom played piano, and because my mom did those things, like if we liked a song, my mom could could hammer it out on the piano. I was in the Music Man. That was my first music thing. I was Amaryllis in The Music Man. And so after that I started like taking voice lessons and got more into guitar, but it would go in and out because of sports. But once I got out of high school, music took the place of what sports was That then became my sport.

00:28:06
Speaker 2: The thing you worked at, yes, goals, yes, yeah, because it's hard to unkind of ravel yourself from the competitive mindset of sports sports sports, sports, well, no, nothing right, So it's again when I was talking about it for me after like replace addictions mm hmm, and not that it was an addiction but if you were always pushing toward this sports goal and now you have no goal, I can see where you could be lost a little bit or no direction.

00:28:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. When I first quit playing basketball because I went to college on a basketball scholarship and I really was burnt out by then.

00:28:35
Speaker 2: Your identity to the basketball player totally.

00:28:39
Speaker 1: I thought that was why people liked me. I still, you know. I talked about this to a therapist one time. I said I always felt like I needed something to hook somebody in and she said, what do you mean? And I said, well, my longest friend in life is a girl named Rachel. I said, Rachel didn't have to do anything like everybody just loved Rachel. I said I had to be like good in sports and then good in me music to hook people in. And she's like, no, you, that's what you need to hook you in to liking you. And I think that's probably probably true. But yeah, my identity was very wrapped up, and when I quit playing basketball, I had probably six months of who am I? And then I started getting really back into music, and then that became my identity. I wish I didn't have so much wrapped in it, but I just do. And if for some reason this went away, it'd be something else.

00:29:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. Same. I struggle with that a lot, separating like who I real I am and who I am and they sometimes I get confused. I'm lucky I have a wife now that will go, hey, yo, this is you know, there are priorities, and I get this is a priority of yours and it's important, but let's evaluate the real human and then the career person.

00:29:57
Speaker 1: That's tough, and.

00:29:58
Speaker 2: So it's tough for me to even kind of understand and that I have to separate those because I was on my own until thirty nine. I mean I never had a serious girlfriend. I had girlfriends and under the million and I met her and then it was like a reality pill and it hurts, hurt to swallow sometimes when you start to get that that like, oh, so that's been difficult for me. Do you have anybody for you that's like, Okay, here's the deal this. You're kind of awful, little you kind off track a little bit personally. Can Shane do that?

00:30:27
Speaker 1: Well? I mean I probably do that.

00:30:28
Speaker 2: For him absolutely, so I would assume is it.

00:30:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, we're good for each other that way. You know, he and I are like you know soulmates in.

00:30:37
Speaker 2: A lot of ways, or you can get mad at them, but it doesn't mean you're not going to be their friend anymore. I think that's a that's a new that's a point in relationship, that's you just bonded.

00:30:45
Speaker 1: Yeah we're family, you know, and and totally like he and I really do lean on each other. I can tell him really really thinks I'm super insecure about and him for me, and yeah, we can kind of ground each other. And he's really been great lately at at balance, you know, like he's really he's amazing for me to watch. He's a great dad. His kids are a real priority. You know, he's spending a lot of time out in Santa Barbara now because that's where he's happiest, that's where his sobriety's easiest, and that that's inspiring to me. I don't struggle with that with the same things. I definitely do struggle with having my identity all wrapped up in this though. That's a that's a big one.

00:31:32
Speaker 2: You your album, What's I got to say? Rare? You've self titled this project, and usually that happens the very first it's like, hello, I'm this person I've self titled it. I've been a fan for years and now it's self titled. I was a little confused. I'm like, am I looking at the wrong record here? So why were talking about identity?

00:31:52
Speaker 1: Why?

00:31:53
Speaker 2: Why do that? Here?

00:31:54
Speaker 1: So funny story and then and then a real story. But so when Brandy Carlisle approached me about he had really like to make a record on you, she said I see it as your return to the Northwest. And that was intriguing to me. And I was talking to Jesse Joe Dillon, who's a great friend and collaborator, and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do on this record, and I said, you know, Brandy Carlisle has been talking to me about potentially working with her. And Jesse said, what do you like about that? And I said, well, one of the things she said that really intrigues me most is that she sees it as my return to the Northwest. And Jesse says, wow, b we should go up to the Northwest and write some songs, and so we did, and one of those was a song called Northwest. It's on this record. And so I then had this massive idea of, oh, we're going to call this record Northwest, and I had all the artwork in my head, but every time I would say that to somebody, they would say, well, you know that's Kim and Kanye's kid, rightest. Oh, yeah, you're right, yes, And I hadn't thought of that, And so then I got off of that and I was like, what am I going to call this? And it just you know, the process of making this was so there was a lot of challenge in it and I and I felt by the end of it there wasn't anything else I wanted to call it but Brandy Clark, And since I hadn't self titled something, it worked.

00:33:25
Speaker 2: Why Brandy Carlisle as in what about her? As a producer? I love her music has been super cool to me, wonderful freaking singer, Like you know, I'll tell her she's the Mount Rushmore. She is, But as a producer, I don't know that part of her.

00:33:39
Speaker 1: I didn't either. It was a leap of faith, you know, And what really drew me to her was her confidence. You know, she she was so confident that she should make this record.

00:33:52
Speaker 2: And did you already want to make a record? And did you talk to her like she you said, she came out, I can't want to make a record on you does?

00:33:59
Speaker 1: She just well, no, it started. What started was when we were in the pandemic and I had made Your Life as a record with Jay Joyce, who's who I loved working with genius producer. The label wanted to waterfall it. They wanted to put out a few more songs, and Jay's schedule didn't line up to do it, and so I just thought, well, we're not going to be able to waterfall it. And then Tracy Gershawn said to me, have you ever thought about doing a couple of songs with Brandy Carlisle? And I said, oh, yeah, that'd be cool. Let's try it. You know, it felt very like an easy thing. It wasn't you know. It wasn't like it was a whole album. And so we did. We cut two songs and tack them onto Your Life as a record. One of them was nominated for a Grammy. And the way it started with her producing whole record was she said that when we didn't win that Grammy that she looked over and she said, I looked so sad. Now I don't remember feeling particularly sad, but I'm glad I did because it spurred her to say. She goes, hey, buddy, I want to make a whole record on you. That was how it started. I didn't know how serious she was, but when her and I sat down, and you know, she talked to me about how passionate she was about it and how she felt like there was a part of me that she could get on record that no one else could. And I think it is because she's such a great singer. I always think a producer leads with their instrument if they were a guitar player first, that's that's their entry point. For her, she's a singer, so that's that's her entry point, and so she can ask things of an artist vocally that other producers can't.

00:35:43
Speaker 2: Does she give example if she's like, I haven't been in the studio with you, but she could go like, ooh, does she do like examples of what she wants you to try to chase?

00:35:52
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean she would sing it to you like, hey, I know you can do.

00:35:56
Speaker 2: This, So she would push you yes by showing you what she wants wanted to push you to Yes. Was there of a moment like I can't do that? But then you did? Because she just kind.

00:36:04
Speaker 1: Of no, because I didn't want to say I couldn't, you know. And also the other way she would push is I love something perfect, And she'd push for flawed things, you know, like no, no, no, leave that vocal alone. That's that. Sure you might be able to sing it better, but you can't sing it truer, like don't don't do it again. You know. She's great that way, and also great at asking Okay, is this really what you want to say? Is this really what you mean here? In a way that I think probably only another artist that can do that's her. That's her gift as a producer is that she's an artist.

00:36:47
Speaker 2: Sounds like you have to trust well a producer, but her a lot in the situation in ways that she's challenging you totally.

00:36:54
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, she's like.

00:36:56
Speaker 2: Do you want to say it like this? If any the right person asking me that, I'm like, what do you mean? You don't tell me how I want to say it? Oh?

00:37:02
Speaker 1: Well, my ego definitely got bruised in the beginning, and I realized the first day we were in the studio together was was kind of a tough day because you know, she it was the day after the cmas And and I had been part of that Lindyville performance and we were recording in La oh actually Malibu a shangri Law, which was a really amazing experience Rick Rubin's studio, and she came in hot, you know, and I don't know if I was just tired from from having just flown in there from here, but I definitely the first day thought wow, is this going to work? And some of that, I think was that at that point I wasn't looking at Brandy as a producer. I was looking at her as another artist. And the next morning we met and really like talked it out and I just said, you know, Brandy, I'm just going to trust you. I'm gonna I'm gonna do it your way on some of these things. And after that happened, it was like the heavens opened. And I think it was mostly me, you know, just giving her that rope that I was maybe hanging on to a little too tight.

00:38:10
Speaker 2: Are you a control freak?

00:38:12
Speaker 1: No, not really. I mean I'm sure about.

00:38:16
Speaker 2: Certain things, but just not generally across the board. Yeah.

00:38:19
Speaker 1: No, I'm not a control freak about most things.

00:38:22
Speaker 2: I mean, you're a perfectionist, yes, But I think.

00:38:26
Speaker 1: Perfect is different for everybody, you know. I mean, I have my idea of what the perfect song is, and a lot of that's based on being here and being in writing rooms for twenty plus years and the idea of the craft of songwriting. I think that's part of why her and I were a great marriage on this, because she hasn't done that. She likes things a little messier, and so I think between the two we ended in a spot that I was really happy with.

00:38:57
Speaker 2: What is her producing style? I can just see a deducer on the other side of the glass, pushing the button, doing the talk through. Okay do this or was she in the vocal booth? What is she like?

00:39:06
Speaker 1: Oh, she's in it. You know. She's always playing something, be it guitar, piano, even if it's not it ultimately in the track, which most times it is. No, she's right in the middle of it. I think to make sure it feels right. Because Brandy is somebody and this was another thing that drew me to her when we did those first two songs. She's all got instinct, and so I think to be that, you have to be in it and be feeling it.

00:39:32
Speaker 3: The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the Bobby Cast.

00:39:45
Speaker 2: Why I like you as a songwriter is your stuff always feels personal. Even if I can't identify what feels so personal about it to you, I can always feel something personal about it with me. Oh, I love it like I feel like. That's why I'm such a big fan of your music is that it is very personal. But sometimes I can I can. If I can't finger and put my finger on exactly what you're talking about personal to you, I can always associate it with something to me. With so much of your music. That being said, these songs feel even more personal, like honestly than stuff that I've heard before. One purpose is that? Was that purposeful?

00:40:23
Speaker 1: Like?

00:40:23
Speaker 2: Did you push yourself to do that? And then two is there ever a point where you're like, man, is this too personal where no one's going to relate to it?

00:40:29
Speaker 1: Yeah? Both things, And I got to say that first. The first thing, I really do a tribute to Brandy because when she said are you sure you want to say this? She asked me to change lyrics that didn't There was a line in Buried that said, I'll read lonesome dub, I'll start doing yoga and takes some trippy drug makes me forget I even know you. And she's like, I don't like that yoga line. That bugged me bad. I said, why don't you like that yoga line? And she goes, cause I just don't even think you do yoga. I said, well I don't. She said, well why are you putting it in this song? Then everything else is, you know, so it changed it. So a lot of that, some of there were little things like that that made things, you know, this much more personal. And I never realized when I'm writing songs, because I'm always writing songs, I never I just I just never know, you know. Sometimes they're for me, sometimes they're for someone else. And there were songs. Lenny Warnicker at Warner is the first person who pointed out just how personal they were. And he said, man, these songs like I thought your life as a record was really personal, but these are even more personal. And I said, oh really, I didn't. I can't imagine that they'd be more personal than that. And he said, well, yeah, like dear Insecurity, like that's you're talking about you. He said, You've written songs that are personal about relationships or situations, but you on this record, you have songs that are about you and your deep feelings and so and that got a little scary. And then a song like she Smoked in the House, I thought that was way too personal. I wrote that Grandma. Yeah, I thought I wrote that just because I was missing my grandma. It was a way to be with my grandma to write that. I turned it in because I turned everything in. I did not expect one person to say, oh, you should record this, and everyone did.

00:42:27
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:42:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, And now that I'm out playing it and the record's out, it's one I don't think I could get away with not playing it live.

00:42:33
Speaker 2: I love my grandma adopted me for a long time, so that song I was drawn to. That's why I knew when you said the song. But I mean that is one too that I that I heard and was like, well, this is so easily such a great song. It's just funny to think how we all feel about things that we make in the moment we make them, and how that can change. Because again, if you're writing here, you're feeling a certain way, but going I don't think really this, I hear it and go, how could this not be a thing?

00:42:57
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I think you know, I just being too close to it. But it's also a good reminder of you know, write what you love and what you know, and other people will love it, know it like you've you know you you hear your grandma in it. There are people that have their grandma was nothing like my grandma. Like they'll say, my grandma didn't smoke, but man, that part about cutting the mold off candel open cheese, that was my grandma. So it's just it's a That song is a great reminder to me to write what matters.

00:43:28
Speaker 2: So why how would you be inspired by Forrest Gump?

00:43:32
Speaker 1: So on a writing retreat, Jimmy Robbins, Jesse Joe Dillon and we were watching Forrest Gump the first night when when we were there we had written something else that day, and there's that scene where Jenny's throwing rocks at the house she grew up in and Forrest says, you know, sometimes they're just staying enough rocks, and Jesse Joe actually said, I've always wanted to write that.

00:43:54
Speaker 2: That makes sense now, Yeah, the title you were literally watching Forrest Gump, Yeah, I came up. That's do you ever go? Maybe we don't tell anybody who wrote this about Forrest Gump or are you just like we got to let everybody know because I love that. It's forced me.

00:44:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, I probably tell too much, and it probably be a better story if I if I made something else up. But that's just the truth about that one.

00:44:19
Speaker 2: Your mom you mentioned her earlier. To play with your mom and to be in a band with your mom, Yeah, what was that like for you?

00:44:27
Speaker 1: It was great and even greater looking back on it, because once again as a kid, it was just like I kind of thought that's what everybody did. But I realize just how special that is. And my mom is so responsible for so much of the music I love and for you know, my parents, they really they sacrificed for us. Like we lived in a single wide trailer that they that they were modeled into more of the size of a double wide when we got older. But I think about all the things we got inside of that trailer, Like we got to do music lessons, we got to play whatever sports we wanted. And they didn't drive. You know, I'm sure they would wish they would, or at the time maybe they wanted to drive a different car, but it was more important for us to me to play guitar and my brother to play violin if that's what we wanted. So we were really lucky and they took us even though we grew up in a really small area. They took us to a lot of things, like in Seattle and Tacoma. I remember, you know, going to the Puaette Faarre and Seye and Ronnie millsap. That was the first concert I saw. They took us to the Perfect Ten Tour, which was when Mary lou Retten and all the gymnasts from the nineteen eighty four Olympic team were in I think they were in Seattle. We got to do things like that. They'd take us to folk life festivals and we'd see all this music and all these different instruments, and you know, just they really they were great parents in a lot of ways. In one of the bigger ways was just culturally. They exposed us to a lot.

00:45:59
Speaker 2: When you moved to Nashville because you went to Belmont, Yes, well did you move from Washington State to Belmont?

00:46:06
Speaker 1: I did.

00:46:06
Speaker 2: That's a significant move. Yeah, and so was it. I'm going to do music, I need to go to where the music is and this is the school.

00:46:13
Speaker 1: Well, a funny story. Yes, I wanted to do music, and it was also really important to me to finish college for some reason. You know, when I was paying off my student LUNs into my thirties, I was like, why did I do this? But I had seen on Crick and Chase that Trisha Yearwood went to Belmont, and so that made me want to go to Belmont. And I'm still glad I went. But it was when I moved here, I felt like I had moved to a foreign country.

00:46:40
Speaker 2: It was so different, even in what ways stuck out to you most because I know the area where you're from. I tore a lot, so I feel like that's not the same. But if there were a group of people that were similar but not the same, it would be people from the Northwest. You know, we're on the airport, like rural Portland, Louis Seattle. Like they're just real on people, real comma, honest people.

00:47:03
Speaker 1: I feel mostly, yes, oh like people here, I think just geographically Like. One of my favorite things when I moved here, and I used to do this and I don't know why I thought this was fun, was how fast you could get to other states. I would get in my car and just drive to Alabama or just drive to Kentucky, like because where I was from in Washington, it took you a day to get across the state. So that was different, like it could be so many places so quick.

00:47:27
Speaker 2: I'm like that with Europe. Yes you can go to a country.

00:47:30
Speaker 1: Yes, same thing.

00:47:31
Speaker 2: Oh like Ireland's the size of Iowa. I can just be over and yes, yeah, that's that is crazy.

00:47:36
Speaker 1: So that was very different. The fact that they were interstates and not freeways. That felt just now when I go home and I say interstate, people look at me like I'm crazy, and I'm like, well, it's I five. You know, that's what it means, Interstate five. And then religion. You know, where I'm from, it's not that people aren't religious, but it's not as it's not so much in the culture. You know there when I got here, I felt like there was a church on every corner. And then going to Belmont, I don't know if it still is, but at the time it was a Baptist university and so that was a different a different thing to me to take Bible classes. And so those were the major differences. And then the weather, you know, humidity. I didn't know what humidity was when I moved here.

00:48:24
Speaker 2: Boy welcome, Yeah, freaking sucks.

00:48:27
Speaker 1: I actually, you know, it's so funny though. I was telling somebody the other day that was talking about how much they hate humidity. I said, I don't and I and I was like, and you know why, because when I moved here, my grandma said to me, You're gonna love it there, but you're gonna hate the humidity. And I just decided I'm not gonna hate it. And so my mom and I landed and it was super humid. We got here in August, and I said, I just love this humidity.

00:48:51
Speaker 2: That works. I just love mayonnaise never worked for me. I hate man as I said that.

00:48:58
Speaker 1: You know.

00:48:58
Speaker 2: So with the record and just to go back to it here again, I've heard so many songs that you have written and that you have sang and that you have written, and other people of saying on this record specifically that you're singing. Which of these songs did you finish? And go, oh man, I got like the tingles that said that felt like, what's the most.

00:49:19
Speaker 1: Dear in security?

00:49:20
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:49:20
Speaker 1: For sure? Well and up above the clouds those two I knew the day that those were written. You know and Dearing's security. We made some changes on that in the studio to make it even more my insecurities than it already was. But both of those I knew like, oh, this is this is something like and this is something I want from me. I knew that right away.

00:49:44
Speaker 2: What are you doing for fun? It just it's it's a lot. You have a lot going on professionally, and this is what people ask me, like, you look like you're driving yourself. What are you doing at all this hang out? You know?

00:49:53
Speaker 1: I mean, well, and I'll get I want to say something about you really quick, because I always say this to other people. Okay, you are so good, and it's because you share your vulnerabilities, you know, like people would talk about Barbara Walters, they'd be like, man, everybody cries in Barbara Walters. I think you're as good as Barbara Walters in your own way. And it's because you talk about yourself, like when you you know, like you're talking about, Oh, I'm a workholic. You didn't say that, but it's your gift as an interviewer. I just wanted to say that you can.

00:50:25
Speaker 2: Leave that or cut that gift is not accepting compliments. I just feel awkward. But I thank you. That's very kind to be from you. That means a whole lot, So thank you.

00:50:32
Speaker 1: It's true. I was telling everybody that I listened to you this podcast, and if I really like somebody, I like them more. And if I kind of don't like somebody and I listen to your podcasts and I still don't like them, I know. Okay, my instinct's right, because the real person's going to come out.

00:50:51
Speaker 2: Right. It is an hour. It is intense, it is, and intensity maybe isn't the word, but it is. It's very intimate. Here we are you, I mean, and luckily I know you. Yeah, but it's just me and you. We only have each other to depend on. M hmm. If one of us stops talking, or if I ask a stupid question, I need you to bail me out and give me an answer that makes me look halfway decent, or if you I mean, it is a very it's a relationship, yes, and so yeah, it is a anybody that I've ever interviewed for a long period of time, their real self comes out eventually.

00:51:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, you get to it, I think, And I think it's because your real self, you're not afraid to talk about your frailties, which is that's that gets other people talking about theirs. I really noticed it. A friend of mine and one of my favorite peoples, Sonny Sweeney, when I heard her podcast with you, I called her or I texted her and just was like, oh my god, this was so great. She was great.

00:51:41
Speaker 2: She was so great.

00:51:42
Speaker 1: Oh she's awesome. So for fun, and you're asking me that, and I got off track. I love sports still, you know, I mean, I'm so excited football's starting. College football would be I know you're a big razorback.

00:51:53
Speaker 2: Do you have a team? U T Tennessee.

00:51:56
Speaker 1: I chose that when I moved here, and here was why I'm moved here, and I one of the places I would go was North Carolina, which was which was further, but I had friends there still there, and when I would drive, I had never seen coll it. I mean, I always loved college football, but not it's not like it is here anywhere else. And so I'd be driving from here from here over to North Carolina. The whole way to Knoxville, I would see these orange and white pom poms out of cars and I just thought, you know what, I want them to be my team. I'm at Tennessee and now and that's that's that's it for me. Now I still root for the Washington Huskies. You know, it'd be tough for me if the Huskies were playing ut But I love college football. I love college basketball me too. I love track. I was terrible in track and field myself.

00:52:51
Speaker 2: You love track like a watch track.

00:52:53
Speaker 1: Oh, if there's a track, meet on, I'm watching it.

00:52:55
Speaker 2: Where's the track? Meaning on?

00:52:56
Speaker 1: There are some of those like higher sports channels, you know, like like.

00:53:00
Speaker 2: Bally's twelve nineteen. Yes, every once in a while there the Olympics. Then.

00:53:05
Speaker 1: I love the Olympics. In fact, when they when they started alternating it where you get the Olympics every two years instead of just every four that was a red letter day in my life because I used to wait all those four years for the Olympics, and now you only have to wait too. It's great.

00:53:22
Speaker 2: And where you come from, I guess you guys had a winter.

00:53:25
Speaker 1: Too, Yes, not a not a harsh winter.

00:53:28
Speaker 2: Enough winter though to understand some of the winter sports. Oh, yes, cause we don't. I mean, I'm from Arkansas. I don't know anything about skiing.

00:53:34
Speaker 1: Yes, no, And I and I didn't know them, but like my dad knew people who were Olympic skiers, so that and and other people. You know, Oh, I went to school with so and so who who was an Olympic skier or ice skaters? Tanya Harding. That was a big thing my senior year in high school was the whole Tanya Harding thing.

00:53:55
Speaker 2: And that was yes, whackening the knee of Carigan.

00:53:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Tanya Harding would train at I think it was the Clackamas Town Center, which was in Oregon, which where I grew up. Going to Portland was as close to as going to Seattle, and I remember I wanted to go watch her practice and we didn't do that, but but that was that was big news around where I was from.

00:54:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a hometown story that goes national. Yes, yeah, that's the fact that I still remember Jeff Galuli's name. Yes, that's wild. Did you ever see it? Tanya? I did? What did you think about it?

00:54:27
Speaker 1: Loved it me too? I thought she did such a good jobs. And then the woman who played her mom.

00:54:33
Speaker 2: Uh do you she was also on that show Mike with Yes Moms with the Yeah.

00:54:42
Speaker 1: She was awesome, Yes, just great.

00:54:45
Speaker 2: Did you see Barbie, I did, do you like it?

00:54:47
Speaker 1: I liked it, I didn't love it as much as everyone else.

00:54:52
Speaker 2: Maybe that was the problem. You heard too many people say they loved it.

00:54:55
Speaker 1: Might have been I mean, or maybe I saw it on the wrong day. I don't know. I was so hyped up for it. You know the movie that like, I wasn't hyped up for that's been my favorite movie and several years was Top Gun Maverick.

00:55:06
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it. Oh, everybody's told me it's so good, there's no way it can meet the expectation. So I've purposely not watched it because there's no way it can be as good as everybody says.

00:55:14
Speaker 1: It's pretty great, and and I even said to a friend of mine that was talking about Barbie, I said, I really liked it. I said, I think I thought it was going to be how I felt about Top Gun, and it wasn't. I mean, it was. It's great, though. I think it's a real mother daughter thing. Everybody I know who really or like Shane, he took his daughter and he loved it. I think there's something about having a daughter and taking your daughter to that movie.

00:55:41
Speaker 2: Dang, I loved it. I was like emotional watch.

00:55:43
Speaker 1: Oh we were okay, Yeah, well you'll just be a good dad when you have a yes.

00:55:48
Speaker 2: I mean, my wife tells me I'm about I'm the most feminist dude that she knows as like a confident sometimes a little too much, and I was just like, yeah, man, we women, we're we're not even understood what's unfit because She's like, okay, relax, but yeah, I really I really like Barbie, Mike, like you like Barbie.

00:56:07
Speaker 1: Huh see I love that.

00:56:09
Speaker 2: Get enough of it.

00:56:10
Speaker 1: I mean I liked it. I just wasn't you know. I know people who cried, and you know, I didn't have that experience.

00:56:17
Speaker 2: But that's why I don't watch Top Gun, because I don't think it can ever meet what everybody says it is, and not in a bad way. I'm sure it's.

00:56:22
Speaker 1: Awesome seeing when I when I saw Top Gun, I just watched it on a plane because I thought, well, there's nothing else, And then.

00:56:28
Speaker 2: I'm so bad.

00:56:29
Speaker 1: I'm bawling, you know, I'm like, because I loved the original, but I you know, it just hit all the feels for me. But it's because I didn't have any expectation.

00:56:37
Speaker 2: That's usually the best when you have no expectation.

00:56:40
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.

00:56:53
Speaker 2: You watch TV at all? Are you watch any shows? He is in Hijack on Apple Plus yet No with Idris elba Oh. I love him, me too, And it's like a plane gets hijacked and he's the He gives some sort of credibility to anything, like if he's in it, you're all right. Just that voice, yeah, just the fact that he lends any of himself to Yes, we finished that. We binged that. It was really really good, little cheesy at very first, but then they got off the cheese and it was super good. We're looking for a show now. That's why I ask you this, and we'll kind of end with this. Give me something that you've seen that you were just so motivated to get back to.

00:57:27
Speaker 1: Okay, well, there's something I started last night that I thought was great, which is Painkiller on Netflix.

00:57:34
Speaker 2: Okay, is that about the Yes, we thought about it. We were looking at things to watch.

00:57:39
Speaker 1: I was super tired, so I couldn't watch more than one episode, but I loved it. I'm trying to think of something else.

00:57:45
Speaker 2: We started watching Robin Big last night because we were just like, well, we're not going to get anything super deep. So we started watching old Robin Big for like fifteen minutes.

00:57:54
Speaker 1: Okay, I love Winning Time.

00:57:55
Speaker 2: Oh it's awesome and it's bad.

00:57:56
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a bet, and.

00:57:58
Speaker 2: I love that.

00:57:59
Speaker 1: You know what. I love that you can't stream it. I love it. You have to wait for it because I look forward to it on Sunday nights. I was Magic Johnson's my favorite basketball player of all time. So in fact, I'll get into discussions with my godson and he'll say, Grandy think he calls me Grandy. Grandy thinks Magic Johnson's the greatest basketball player of all time. I said, no, he's my favorite. Didn't say he was the greatest. I think Michael Jordan's the greatest, but Magic is my favorite. But oh I love why Magic? You know. I think it was his charisma. I just I just he's one of those I don't really I rarely get starstruck. If I met him, I would cry.

00:58:37
Speaker 2: You never met him, never met him.

00:58:38
Speaker 1: I'm sure I would cry. I remember I cried when I found out he had HIV. I was at a junior high football game and this kid that was in my class told me, and I just I've loved him once again. I think it was the charisma.

00:58:51
Speaker 2: Were you a point guard?

00:58:53
Speaker 1: No, as a shooting guard. But I went to a tiny school, you know, any other school I would have had to have been a port guard and I wouldn't have been quick enough.

00:59:00
Speaker 2: Well, I wondered if that was why the magic, if you love magic he was also a guard, you know, or if it just was the charisma.

00:59:06
Speaker 1: I think it was this charisma and just yeah, I mean we're such a great player too, but just just everything about him.

00:59:14
Speaker 2: Well, we've done an hour. I don't want to keep you, but I want everybody. We talked about it before you got here. Listen. Don't be confused. It's not her first album ever, just because it's called Brandy Clark. It is not her intro to the world. It's really good. I knew I was gonna love it.

00:59:29
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:59:29
Speaker 2: I'm glad I didn't top on it, and no, I was gonna love it, So then I didn't listen to it because then I but it's just it's it's so good. But I think I think everything you do is so good. But I'm just a massive fan and sometimes this is not you. But sometimes I've had favorite artists and I've appreciated maybe different directions they've taken, but it didn't always. I always love it with like my sonic sensibilities, we'll call it that. And I worry about that at times, whenever I get so hyped that one of my favorite people are going to release something, and then when it is what I like, I'm like, oh, thank god. And this was I was like, oh thank god when.

01:00:06
Speaker 1: I heard that makes me feel good.

01:00:08
Speaker 2: Well, even if it had been totally different, I've been like, I respect it your but I just I just loved it. I did. I just loved it, and it made me think of my grandma. Like I said, there were just time it just felt even more personal, and I didn't know if that was the if you felt like that was the case too.

01:00:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably part of why it was why it was challenging at times, you know, And to be challenged by someone in Brandy Carlisle who won't take anything less than real personal.

01:00:31
Speaker 2: You know, I'm never letting her produce my album, never never doing an album. I've never letting her produce it either. Great to see you, you too, everybody please stream Lovey. I mean it's great, and it's been out three yeah, three months. Yeah, dang, it's already been out three months. Three yeah, and shucked. Now I have to go see it.

01:00:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you'll like it.

01:00:55
Speaker 2: It's super cool. And are you making a bunch of money off?

01:00:58
Speaker 1: Shucked? Well, not yet, but I think we will.

01:01:00
Speaker 2: Is it like a song? I guess my question is not how much money? Is it like a song? When it goes top five, number one, it takes a while for the residuals to come in, But you know it's coming.

01:01:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know it's coming. And when it really starts to when it really starts to pay off, is when it tours and they've booked a national tour.

01:01:14
Speaker 2: That's awesome. Yeah, congratulations, thank you.

01:01:16
Speaker 1: And so you know it'll and that's one of those that that'll be an evergreen sort of thing, you know, and it's you'll see it. You'll notice it when you see it. It's for Broadway. It's a very inexpensive show. There's nothing automated, and so every community college high school in America will be able to do it. Now, they'll have to clean up some of the humor.

01:01:36
Speaker 2: But I know that they'll last question. I want to keep it out. I could do this for four hours. May last question. Is there anything in Chucked that in ten years ago that might get me canceled but right now it's funny.

01:01:48
Speaker 1: No, at times there was there were. I mean, we really got lucky that it came out when it did and not sooner, because there were times where some of the humor was sexist. There was never anything racist in it, but definitely there was some sexist humor for a while. And well maybe there were nothing racist. Maybe things that could have come across and this is going to sound crazy because it was written by three gay people. There was a there were a few little homophobic things that were that are gone, that were inside jokes that were funny to us, but I think maybe would have gotten us canceled.

01:02:26
Speaker 2: Okay, final last question. I've had a lot of last questions. Final last question. If let's say the actor who was playing the main character, Mason's in name was yeah, Let's say she's like, oh, I can't my throat hurts. Because I always thought if I'm on an airplane and they're like we need to make a land us, Okay, I'll go do it. I don't know how to do it, but I can figure it out. But you know these songs, could you go and play her role with fifteen minutes? Notice?

01:02:46
Speaker 1: I did it? So wait, this is a great question. Yes. So we were in New York City and it was after the show had opened, but before the Tonies, and so you know that's when all the Tony voters are coming. They can't come before it officially opens. And so it was when all the smoke was happening in New York from Canada. And I just happened to be in New York doing radio at Warner Records, and our producer called me three times. I was in doing some things and I thought, well, that's strange. I better take this call. So I stepped out and it's five o'clock and he said, hey, where are you And I said, well, I'm at Warner Records. And he said, well, all the Mazies have called out. Do you think that if you could do a concertized, concertized version of it? Because Robert the book writer was there. He said, Robert, we'll read all the dialogue, you sing the songs. And I said, sure, I can do it. And so five o'clock the curtains at seven point thirty, leave Warner, go go down to the theater, run through it with the music director. He changed the keys he could, but he couldn't chae all the keys, and so they sat Robert and I down on barrels, and then the whole cast was around us on barrels. But they got up and did their scenes. And so we did it. And I'll tell you what, it gave me mad respect for anyone who does it, because it looks way easier than it is. And I've even said, as we've because we've had to recast that role just because our lead had to leave the show, and different names would come up of oh, we could get this person to play it like popular music people, and I would say, yeah, I don't think so, and everybody would look at me and say, well, yeah, they can sing that. I'm like, no, they can't. I've done it. If I can barely do it, this person you're talking about can't. You know? Now, there are some singers who definitely could do that and more. But it's a tough role.

01:04:59
Speaker 2: What a great question about me? I'm glad to ask that. And we're gonna end it now. She said, a great question that you can't. I'm gonna sign fill this thing and end at the top. You're the best.

01:05:06
Speaker 1: Oh, you are as much of a fan of.

01:05:09
Speaker 2: Of you, of me, possible. I'm obsessed, so possible at the Brandy Clark and you guys go check out the album if you haven't already.

01:05:17
Speaker 3: Thank you, Brandy, thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.