Ep:122 Rare Encounters With the Little People

When it comes to bigfoot, you hear so many variations of who they are,
what they are, where they came from, how long they've been here.
I can't help but think they're part human, and I think they've been
here from the beginning of time. I really believe they are just another group
of people that have now lived in the wilderness for so long and they've just
adapted to their surroundings. It's fascinating to hear everybody's different opinions on the subject
and trying to formulate exactly what they are. And I always picture myself just
sitting down on the ground with my head bowed down, as if I'm just
telling them I'm safe, I'm here, and I want to see you,
and I want one to talk to me. This is Bigfoot Crossroads. My
name is Matt and joining me is Jody. Jody was actually called to my
attention by a mutual friend, Evans Bailey, because he thought I might be
interested in your story. Yes, yeah, so crazy stuff. But first,
you're a bigfooter I am. I am part of the Native Oklahoma Bigfoot
Research Organization based out of southeast Oklahoma. I've been with them, I'm guessing
about six years I kind of feel like I'm the low man on the totem
poles. Sometimes I don't get to get out as much as the rest of
the members do, but I tried to do my part, and I really
enjoy getting out there and investigating. How in the world did you get interested
in bigfoot stuff? Well, I guess it goes back quite some time ago.
My son in law years ago told me about his cousin's husband seeing a
bigfoot in Missouri, and I thought that was really cool, and so I
just kind of would look at some things every once in a while on the
Internet and it popped up about the conference down in Hunaby, and so I
asked my husband, Hey, you know, let's go down there. Well,
he wasn't able to go with me. He had business to do,
and so I went down by myself. I met Mordecai during that trip.
He was the one that teaches everybody about how to cast bigfoot prints, and
he was the one that told me about them. Was the word I'm looking
for where they take you on expeditions, and so I got to meet Floyd
and Evans and some of the others. And I didn't know it at the
time, but that was kind of like my interview with them to decide if
they thought I was worthy enough to become an investigator with their group, and
they decided that I was, and so it just kind of took off from
there. Now, have you had any experiences that you consider were Bigfoot related?
I personally have not seen one. I have heard what I thought might
be a bigfoot. I've obviously seen the prince and the tree breaks and just
the different things that you look for when you're out in the woods. These
guys are very good at what they do, so they've taught me a lot.
I've seen what I thought might be a bigfoot on a fleer, but
I have not seen one with my naked eye. But that does not keep
me from getting out there, because I truly believe in them. There's too
much evidence out there, not too There's just too many people that report,
and so for it not to be real or true just seems ridiculous. Have
you heard stories of sightings around your area where you live at quite a few?
Actually, yes. Our group came up here to Spavanav I believe two
years ago. We did a We camped in the local campground and then we
did a couple of nighttime investigations over the weekend. We didn't come up with
any evidence, but we were able to interview several people during that weekend from
the area that had stories. I believe there's a YouTube video out there about
that. But yes, I do get lots of reports. It's it's actually
kind of funny. I'm the manager of a vintage antique storm Prior Oklahoma,
and I actually have people coming in there looking for me to tell me about
their stories. So that's pretty neat. Oh wow. I just take time
out of my day and just get the information that I can and we kind
of go from there. We've talked a little bit, not very much,
but I told you that my family had property very close to where you live.
Correct. I've told this story a few times. But my first memory
of Bigfoot as a kid, I had a dream about a Bigfoot actually,
while I was staying at that lake property. I was very young interest and
I got my first book on the subject, which was a little paperback book
and half of the book was about Bigfoot and half was about the lock Mass
Monster and it just had you know, classic stories of sidings and encounters.
And I got it at an estate cell in that area, that's awesome.
Yeah, But back then, even though I was, you know, getting
interested in the subject and stuff, I wasn't thinking about it a whole lot.
So I really never looked for it or thought that there was bigfoot around
there or anything. I didn't even think bigfoot was a thing in Oklahoma until
much later in my life. Sure, and I have the Internet to thank
for that. But after I did make that discovery that they're everywhere, and
I started going out with groups and looking for them and everything. I found
myself back in that area just kind of scouting around. I had heard ran
across report somewhere about some I think it was a father and son that saw
one. I want to say, on the prior Creek hiking trails, if
you know where that's at. I do know where that's at. Yes,
Yeah, So I went and checked that out. Me and my research partner
at the time found some interesting tree bows where they were actually pinned by other
debris and stuff to the ground. They weren't just growing naturally. And this
place they were talking about is on the outskirts of town. Yeah, I
mean it's like right there. Yeah. I had never you know, it
wasn't like some I didn't spend a lot of time in prior. We would
you know, run into town, you know and go eat or go to
Walmart or something. But I didn't know about those hiking trails until that day,
and I was just kind of like, wow, this is this is
right here, you know, yes, yep. And then we ended up
going to some other areas. I had heard about another sighting that took place,
which was right by our lake house, I mean within a mile O
good. Yeah. We found a track and it was in a puddle,
a perfect track, and it kind of blew my mind. And then we
drove around a little bit further and kind of went off this road that came
off the highway over there that runs to eight air Sure, we found an
area where there was just all kinds of crazy tree structures. There was trees
that were like leaned up in the forks of other trees, but the root
ball was in the air instead of on the ground. Oh my gosh,
that's so cool. It was kind of mind blowing to think that, Like
I grew up there running around as a little kid. I mean, my
favorite pastime was to go off into the woods by myself for the whole day.
You know, and it's just kind of crazy to think that these things
really are just everywhere. Well, and see, I originally grew up in
cap Coom, Massachusetts, and I moved to Missouri. I believe I was
twenty two years old, and so I was there for about twenty eight years.
And I used to go hiking all the time in Arkansas and Missouri.
And I think back on that this is pre bigfoot, and I think how
many times were they watching me? Yeah? Or how many times did I
walk by them and have no idea that they were there? Yeah? And
I think that happens to everybody. Yes, And I talk about that quite
a bit too. I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with the concept,
you know, after people have sightings that that bigfoot hindsight, where once you
know that they're out there, then you start thinking about, well, there
was that one time I heard this one thing. Yes, you start coming
up with all these possibilities. But yeah, I think a lot of people
encounter these things and just don't even realize it. They just write it off
as oh, well, it must have been a deer or a bear or
some something like that. He goes, why would it be a bigfoot?
Right? Well, my husband kind of thinks I'm crazy. He doesn't get
into it much, but he totally supports everything I do. And it was
probably about three years ago. He was standing on our deck and we live
right on the lake between Spabanon and Salina, and it was about two o'clock
in the morning, and he said he heard something hollow and he said,
I've been a hunter. I know what animals make, what sounds. And
he said this was loud and deep and far away, and he said that
convinced him that he probably hurt. A bigfoot doesn't and he wants to go
out and research with me. He has no desire to do that. He,
like I said, he thinks I'm crazy. The big joke in the
family is if I die from a bigfoot, he is going to go out
on the road and make money from my death telling my story. I mean
that area you're in though, you know, between Spava and Salina and going
you know, back along the lake there, yes, I mean, that's
prime territory. That's the perfect habitat for these things. Well, and right
down the road, I say, right down the road about eight miles or
so is the intersection that leads off to Kenwood and Kenwood is a Cherokee community,
and I've heard many, many stories from there, but I'm not allowed
to go out there. They don't want a non native American to come out
there and investigate, so I can't ever get out there. But I hear
a lot of stories about that area. We're here to talk about something else,
though, Yes we are. Me and you have something in common,
I know. Are you going to tell me your story? Yeah, We're
going to have a little show and tell session. Okay, you tell me
your story and then I'll tell you mine. Yeah, just you know,
you know the drill, walk us through that day, what you were doing,
what happened, and all that good stuff. Okay. It was June
twenty ninth of this year. It was seven fifteen in the morning. On
top of being the manager of a store, I also do eBay, so
every morning before work and on the weekends, I am running out the door
trying to find my next bargain. So I had left the house about a
mile down the road. The road is kind of curvy. It leads up
to a salvage, very very large salvage yard. But going up these curves,
I'm always used to seeing wildlife, especially the deer, and so I
pay close attention as I'm going up that road, especially early in the morning.
But I came around one of those corners and off to my right,
in the grass on the side of the road, I saw a flash of
brown. So my first instinct was a fawn, because just a couple of
days before that I had seen a fawn in almost the exact same spot come
out onto the road. So I started slowing down my car, and when
it stepped out on the road, my mind was having a battle because I
kept saying it was a deer. But what stepped out on the road was
on two legs, and so my focus was on the lower half of the
body, and I watched this little creature run across the highway. It was
no more than two foot tall. I cannot tell you what it looked like
from the shoulders up because I was so focused on the lower half of the
body, because I kept arguing in my mind, is that really what I'm
seeing or is it a little animal? But it clearly was not. It
was on two legs. It was dressed in like a tunic type outfit,
all one piece. Originally I said that the top was like a tank top.
But the more I thought about it, it almost had like a little
cap on the sleeve. It didn't come down the arm at all. It
just kind of capped at the shoulder when it ran across the road. They
run just like we do, you know, the arms pumping, just as
if you saw a human run across the road. The arms reminded me of
a dwarf. And the reason I say that is the from the elbow to
the wrist seemed short compared to a human's, and the hands seemed a little
bit larger than they should have been. People kept asking me about the feet.
The feet were very normal to me. They were very proportional to the
body size. The creature was a little bit on the chunky side, and
when I say that, I don't mean fat. It just was very well
defined. It wasn't skinny, but it moved very quickly. Now, of
course, when I got interviewed by Brian from Red Dirt Cryptids, I said
it probably took four to five seconds to cross the road, But in all
reality, everybody's telling me it probably just took a second or two. It
just seemed longer. But it did run very very quickly, and I slammed
on my brakes because I knew no one was behind me, and I threw
my car and park and I jumped out of the car. Door was open.
Here I am on this curvy road, but I had to see if
I could see it run through the woods on the opposite side of the road.
I did not have my phone with me. I didn't think that quickly.
I just wanted to see it better. When I got to the side
of the road, I didn't see it anywhere, but as Brian would tell
you, the woods are extremely thick right there, and it kind of drops
down into a ravine and I didn't see anything moving. But as small as
it was, it could have been five feet away from me, laying in
the brush and I wouldn't have known it. I jumped back in my car
because that road's pretty busy in the morning, and I had left my car
right in the middle of the road basically, And I got my car and
my mind was raising who do I call? First? Seven fifteen in the
morning. All of my groups probably sound asleep. Who do I call?
So I called my husband, and when I was telling him about it for
good, I was continuing to drive down the road for about ten minutes,
my body felt like it was electrically charged. It was this weird energy just
running through me, and I felt like I wanted to cry. I mean,
I was really fighting that because what I told my husband, I would
have rather have seen a ten foot tall bigfoot than to see what I saw,
because I had always thought of the little people as folklore. I honestly
didn't believe in them, and so to see that in front of me was
just mind blowing. Really, I just don't I don't know, I know
the Cherokees in this area, even them. In fact, I have several
people that actually want to get together with me and talk to me about that.
Apparently they're concerned because I saw one, from what they say, the
way they put it, a little white girl, like you shouldn't be seeing
a little person, and yeah, so they're kind of concerned about that.
So I have some other people I need to talk to. But I got
to work that day, and of course I told some of my coworkers,
and the gentleman from the store two doors down came over to tell us about
a potential ghost that he had seen on the cameras in his store, and
he had seen it several times, and so my coworker said, we'll tell
your story. So I started to tell him, and when I did,
he proceeded to tell me about how he and his wife have seen them before.
So we've gotten into this discussion. Well, this customer comes up from
the back of the store and she kind of tapped the she threw her hands
down on the counter where the register is at, and she said, you
should have never gotten out of your car. And I just kind of looked
at her funny, and she said, I'm really sorry. I know I
was eavesdropping, but you should have never gotten out of your car. And
I said, okay, why and she said, because that comes across to
them as confrontational. And she said when you do that, that's when bad
things happen. And she said they can steal your soul, steal your memory,
go after your grandchildren, that kind of thing. So that kind of
concerned me a little bit. Took me back for a second because I didn't
realize that they consider these creatures mean. I guess, for lack of a
better word, they're mischievous and just cause harm. So yeah, she was
pretty concerned, which then put me a little bit on alert. I guess
sure, I didn't know quite to think, and she was Cherokee. She
didn't give me her name or anything, but you could tell she was greatly
disturbed by what I was saying. But my coworker has a housekeeper and her
housekeeper's husband, they're both Cherokee, and he had a story from when he
was a little boy. He claims he was taken when he was five years
old and kept for two days. So he and his wife want to talk
to me. And then I had an older couple come in one day at
work. I wasn't there. They want to talk to me. They're both
Cherokee. So yeah, the word has kind of gotten out a little bit.
And it's I mean, Brian's video was taken off like wildfire. It's
a subject that people, I guess really didn't think about. But now that
it's kind of been put out in the open through my video, I'm getting
a lot of response about that. Well, whenever it comes to that sort
of thing, a lot of Native Americans don't talk about it. They believe
it's taboo to speak on, right, So there's a lot of there's a
lot of interest. You know, anytime you've got secret knowledge of something.
It piques people's curiosity and they want to know more about it. Obviously,
sure I do too. So a situation like this where someone like yourself who's
not Native and has a you know, no heritage based ties to not talking
about it or anything, right, You're willing to speak about it openly,
and you know, we hope nothing bad happens from it. Agree, have
you noticed anything? Does it seem like you've got any sort of not?
No, I have not, But Troy Hudson, that is one of the
leaders of our group, he has told me to just be aware and watch
what's going on around me anything unusual, and I haven't yet. Sometimes when
I go to bed at night, I think to myself, Man, I
hope tonight when I go to bed, the memories of what the face or
hair looked like would come to mine. But it doesn't. And I don't
want to make anything up. I don't want to push myself to make up
something that I can't remember. So I have had somebody mentioned that I should
have an artist draw from my memory, so I might have that done anyway.
Yeah, it's it's very interesting. Nothing unusual disappearing at your home,
like silverware or anything. Like that, not yet, No, just checking.
No, I know I have had they they've brought on those subjects up.
But they think, or some of them think that because I can't remember
from the shoulders up, that it stole my memory of that because it doesn't
want me to remember what it looked like. Huh. So I suppose that's
a possibility. I had somebody mentioned to me that maybe I should get hypnosis.
Well I had somebody with a Cherokee background tell me absolutely not, do
not do that, because it's like opening up a door for them to mess
with my mind. I guess I want to say my memories and and things
like that. They think I should not do that. Picking at the scab.
Sure, sure, I need to just leave it alone and let things
be. And I was very lucky to see when I did. But I
just need to let it go. And I'm like, Okay, it's hard
to just let it go whenever you witness something like that. And I mean,
like, you know, spoil alert. I did listen to the majority
of your interview with Brian, so I know some of the answers ahead of
time, which is not my normal thing, but just for the sake of
the listener, the tunic that it was wearing. Was it cinched at the
waist or just free flowing? It was free flowing. And when I say
that, because I've been asked multiple questions, when I say free flowing,
I don't mean something like silk or satin, not that free flowing. But
it just moved very well with the body when it was running. And so
I had somebody ask me was it fur? Was it skins? If I
I mean as quickly as I saw it. If I had to pick a
type of fabric, I would say a skin. Somebody asked me if maybe
it was like grasses woven together. No, that would have to me,
that would have been too rough. It wouldn't have flowed with the body when
it ran. And color of skin, so the term that I used because
I was trying to figure out how I wanted to say that almost like a
saddle brown, like somebody that has like works out in the sun on a
farm. And then the tunic was just a little bit of a lighter color.
Somebody else asked me if they had if it was covered in hair like
you know some people claim maybe I saw a baby bigfoot. No, it
had skin just like we did. I don't. I don't remember hair.
If there was, it was very light, it didn't stand out. It
was barefoot, no type of shoes. I didn't hear anything. Did you
notice anything about the posture whenever it was running? Was it like straight backed
or hunched over? I wouldn't say hunched over, but kind of. I
mean it was moving quickly, so like leaning forward, maybe at a slant
that I wouldn't say hunched over. Does that make sense? Yeah, Other
than the size, pretty normal for what you would imagine like a human moving.
Yes. When my daughters were asking me about it, I said,
it was kind of like looking at a you know, a gnome, a
garden gnome. You know, you always Joe who can talk about little people,
But that's kind of how it was. And when Brian did the interview
with me in his video, they stood on the side of the road with
a yardstick and I recreated driving past that spot to make sure, because I
immediately said it was about two foot and sure enough it was. When I
drove by and looked at the yard stick, he had like colored dots on
the yardstick, and so I picked the colored dot where I thought it was
the height, and sure enough it was two foot till mind blown. Well,
when we did the interview with Brian and we were looking over that side
of the ravine, all right, let me back up from it. So
that road is called Indian Springs Road, and so when we looked over the
side of that ravine, sure enough, my husband saw some water coming off
an area to the right of where we were looking. So I imagine there's
springs all over that area, and that's why the road was given that name.
There are I can confirm that from my own snooping around, I found
some amazing places off in that area. Really yeah, I mean places that
were just kind of mind blowing that I had no idea were even there.
You know, springs and spring fed creeks and just like beautiful areas and right
lots of there was some some rural people too. I got a little nervous.
I was going down one road that was a single lane road that kind
of cut down into a ravine, and once I got to the bottom of
it, I realized it was somebody's driveway. Yes, so that's not a
good situation to be in. Now, all the questions that come to mind,
I know, you don't have answers to you know, like, why
did this thing run across the road in front of you? That was something
else we talked about, so that I always ask the same question with deer
when a car is driving down the road. Can these animals little people whoever?
Can they not feel the vibration in the road from the car. That
was one of my questions. And if they can, why don't they go
back into the woods. Yeah? So like I had somebody say, well,
maybe he wanted you to see him. Well, why, that's more
disturbing. Yes, why? And somebody said, well, you drive that
road five days a week, so maybe they've seen you before. Somebody suggested,
because I'm in the bigfoot world, they all kind of interconnect together and
they knew that somehow. I don't. I don't know if I believe all
that. But when I first saw it, it was in the grass,
so it could have easily turned around and been back into the woods without me
seeing it. So why did it run across the road? So whenever you
first saw it, and it's is it standing still or is it already moving?
No, it was standing still. Wow. But because it is very
we are very very heavily wooded in this area, so you know, everything
is bright green right now, So the brown stood out to me as I
came around that corner. But I'm always on the lookout for deer always because
they're always running out in front of my car. So as soon as I
saw that brown in the grass, I immediately start so now and it just
I don't know if I startled it. I don't know if there were more
on the other side of the road, and it just was in a panic
to get with the rest. I just don't know. Have you gone back
to that area. I know you went back to compare soon and everything,
but have you gone back since and done a little hiking to see if there's
anything off in those woods? Well, I have not, simply because it's
privately and on both sides and to the right of the road there is actually
a neighborhood back up in there. But on both sides of the roads it
dips down into ravines, and on the right side, if it rains really
well, it floods, and then the left side would be a little bit
hard to get down into. But I'm always I'm a warrior. I don't
like to trespass on people's property, right, So I just am especially out
here in the country. You don't know who's going to come out after you.
Oh no, I have not. I would like to get down that
robine, but this time of the year, I just I don't snakes,
mosquitoes, all that yucky stuff. Yeah, and it's hard to get down
in there. It is so overgrown. I mean, Brian is from Enid
and so they're used to the flat land of Oklahoma on you know, not
a whole lot of trees, and he comes out here and he's like whoa.
He's like, dinosaurs could live out here, and you wouldn't. I
mean, you know, it's still it's very heavily wooded. And we've had
bear. I've had a bear in my backyard three different times than the last
month. Wow. Yeah, I mean like close. He was on my
back deck, like eight feet away from me. I mean, bears were
just like absolutely unheard of whenever I was up there. Well, they're all
over now. I had heard that there's more bear in that area. Now,
yes, that's what the name Warden said. But we have mountain lions.
We have it all. There is just a picture of one I saw
recently from Salina of a mountain lion that somebody a security camera cut. Yeah,
they're here, so you know. Just I mean, and this is
just my own opinion that I've brought it up with everybody else. All these
wildlife management areas? Why are there so many? And why are they placed
where they're at? Like ours is very close to Kenwood and the Cherokee population
over there. I mean, is there a reason for that? You know?
I would love to get back in there. We keep saying we're going
to do it as a group, but to try to get us all together
and get out there in these wildlife management areas is sometimes hard to do.
But I often wonder, you know, why do they put these in strategic
places? It seems like, yeah, why is it in one location and
not a different one? How did they choose the specific areas? Right?
Going back to the possibility of little people in Bigfoot somehow being intertwined. Have
you had other experiences, maybe paranormal experiences or anything, well totally off the
wall, Yes, I have. This was way back when I was nineteen
years old and I was living on the Cape in Massachusetts. It would have
been the late eighties, so nineteen it would have been eighty eight. Back
then, hotel parties were pretty popular. You're went a hotel party, y'all
get in the room and you drink, and we'd play poker and just crazy
stupid teenager stuff. It was pretty bad. But I was I you know,
I had grown up in a Christian home and so the whole drinking scene
just wasn't much for me. So I was always the designated driver. And
so they're all party and doing their thing, playing poker. I'm sitting over
in the corner in a chair, just kind of observing everyone. And I
was kind of the shy one of the bench anyway. But there was a
young girl, I say young girl, teenager, I don't mean young young.
She was sitting on the bed, leaning up against the headboard. And
there was a young man. His name was Billy. He kind of dressed
almost goth like, but not to that extreme. What I mean by that
is he had long black hair. He wore the black clothes, just kind
of you know, if he was out in public, some people might be
scared of him. They were on the bed talking to each other, and
all of a sudden I heard her scream, and when I looked up,
he was on all fours in front of her on the bed, growling at
her. And when he turned his head to look at me, he was
a wolf. He had in my eyes what I was seeing. He was
a wolf on all fours. He was drooling from the jowls, had the
point of the air. I mean, just like a wolf, like what
you would see in the movies. And she is just screaming. Well,
when he turned to look at me, and I'm assuming he looked at me
because I was the only Christian in the room, he ran out of the
hotel room, out the front door. Well, at this point, everybody's
screaming. Nobody knows what's going on. She runs off to the bathroom.
Her boyfriend runs in there with her, and I'm just in a full blown
panic. I just want my boyfriend take me home, Just get me out
of here, take me home. Well, she screams again in the bathroom,
and the bathroom door comes flying open, and this wolf comes running through
the bathroom door, back through the hotel room, back out the front door.
Well, everybody's freaking out again. Some of them run into the bathroom
to make sure they're okay. And back then and even now in this hotel
room, that the ceiling was one of those very long rectangular windows, you
know that were only what five inches tall? Six inches stall? Maybe they
claimed now this window was still whole, that the glass wasn't broken out of
it. They claimed he came flying through that window at her and knocked her
boyfriend down, and that's when he went out the bathroom door and out the
front door. So everybody goes running around outside the back of the hotel room
to see. Well, first of all, we all have common sense told
us it couldn't have come through that window. But we were also wondering,
if it did come through that window, how did it come through that window?
Out back? There was no air conditioner units, nothing leaned up against
the building to even let something climb up to the window. So I'm really
panicking now, telling my boyfriend now we need to leave now. So he
gets me in the car and he told me I was screaming the whole entire
time. He gets me in the car, and I got down on the
floorboard and crawled up underneath the glove compartment, and he said, I stayed
like that the entire way home. When he got me home, I'm still
screaming, and I'm screaming, get him away from me, get him away
from me, and he's like, there's nobody here. He takes me in
the house. He puts me in the bedroom. I immediately go over to
the corner of the room and I curled up in a ball. The entire
time, I'm screaming, get him away from me, get him away from
me. Well, obviously there was nobody there. So he calls my mom
and he's like, I don't know what to do. She's panicking and she's
screaming about somebody being near her, and she wants me to get him away.
So he holds the phone up to my ear, and my mom just
started praying. And I don't know how long she prayed for. It was
quite a while, but she prayed until I finally calmed down. And I
didn't feel like he was near me, but I felt like his presence was
stuck to me. Still with you, Yes. And then three months after
that, happened at a local animal park, not a very big one,
just kind of a little local thing. He was found, This young kid,
Billy, was found in this animal park early morning hours. He had
skinned a goat alive and was eating it. Yeah, And I mean,
so, how many witnesses do this? Oh? If I had to guesstimate,
I'd say there were probably ten to twelve people on that hotel room.
Nobody saw a wolf. Only I did. Wow. And the only thing
I mean, I've talked to a lot of church people about it, and
the only thing they can say is, obviously he had an evil spirit.
And because I was a Christian, that's why I saw what I did and
nobody else saw it. I don't know. But when I run into people
and they say, oh, I don't believe in demons and all these kind
of things, I'm like, Oh, you have no idea what is out
there? Just let me tell you. Did you ever talk to the girl
about it? Did she see a wolf? Or why did she initially scream?
Just was she just frightened? Yeah, because he had Apparently they had
started to argue and he got in her face. And at the moment I
guess when he got in her when I heard her scream, and that's when
I heard the growl. That's what her screaming, and the growl made me
look up. And when I looked up, that's when he turned and looked
right at me, and he was drooling. I mean, it was it
was gross. And then whenever the bathroom incident happened and the wolf came running
out, did other people see him or did they not see anything? They
said they saw him. Nobody saw the wolf, right except you? It
was just me. Yep. Yeah, that's frightening. Yeah. I've told
it many times to young kids, young teenagers that kind of get off on
the wrong path and they, you know, they're just getting into evil things,
and I'm like, you guys don't realize what's out there. And I
think it's all around us everywhere. Well, especially in the late eighties,
the time period that you're talking about, you know, right, satan worship
and Satanism was spreading rapidly. It was on the news and it was teenagers
that were being drawn to it. Yes. Yeah, it's funny that you
said that, because in that same area we had a young nobody I knew,
but it was on the news. There was a young girl that had
come out of her house to go to school one day and the head of
her horse was laying on her front steps. Oh wow, And it turns
out it was a Satanic cult that had done that. So yeah, it
was huge in our area. Well, I guess I should share my story
now, yes, please. Yeah. So mine's a pretty strange one.
I had just moved out of my house for the first time. I was
eighteen, nineteen nineteen, I think, yeah, And I was raised by
my great grandparents. Actually, oh okay, but my mother was still around
and I talked to her and everything. So whenever I moved out, she
actually rented a house, but she wasn't staying there. She had a boyfriend
that she was staying with, so she allowed me to move into this house.
Okay, And like a young idiot, I had a girlfriend at the
time, so I'm like, hey, let's move in together in this house.
Yes, let's go play a house together. And this house it's kind
of in the middle of Tulsa. It's real close to downtown. Wasn't a
great area at the time, had no business being there, but whatever,
So we're moving into the house. I go and look at the house.
It's like, you know, we're checking it out before we move in and
everything. And while we're there, this Native American woman, a little old
lady, comes walking up to us while we're outside of the house. She
actually lives in the house directly behind it, and the houses weren't very far
apart. There was a chain link fence separating them, and there was a
chain link gait right there that she just could access our property through. And
so she comes over there and introduces herself and everything, and she says,
I just want you to know that I smoked the house. You know,
I blessed it for you to get rid of all the evil stuff. And
I'm like, okay, well, thank you. You know, like kind
of weird. So I guess I should add like a little footnote to this.
I grew up in a house that had paranormal activities since I was born.
I didn't It's okay, yeah, that's kind of how you got sent
down the path of investigating weird stuff. And you know, Bigfoot was just
thrown in with all that stuff, so right, that's how I discovered Bigfoot.
But yeah, so I mean it was actually my house was actually haunted,
if that's what you want to call it. Before I was ever born.
Relatives experienced stuff, so like those stories, you know, I've heard
those two and yeah, it's a whole thing. So to me, it
was just kind of like I hadn't moved in yet, I didn't know if
it was haunted or not. She's just being nice whatever. So she starts
to walk off, and then she stops at the gate and she turns back
around and she says, there's also little people here, and I say,
hunt downtown. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm in the
hood. I'm in a bad neighborhood, but it's a neighbor you know.
It's like, this is not remote at all. I can see, you
know, the buildings in downtown Tulsa from my yard. I'm that close to
downtown. And so like I'm like, okay, you know, like I
had heard about little people before, but I was like, you those are
just stories, those aren't you know. That's not bigfoot, that's just a
story. And she's like, but don't worry, you know. She says
I feed them or something. I'm like, okay, you know, like
some of the things I've heard is that you don't do that. But I
was just getting ready to say that. Yeah, but she's Native American,
she's an old lady. I gotta respect it. So I'm just like okay,
you know, and I just blow it off. It immediately leaves my
mind. There's no chance that there's little people here. I'm in the middle
of the city and there's nothing here yaudio right. Shortly after moving in,
I found out that the house was extremely haunted, and I mean extremes.
It was horrible. So eventually I found out that it was so bad that
my mom had to ask the owners about it that we were renting from,
and they told her what had happened. Their son used to live in the
house and he had a drug addiction and overdosed in the house. I assume
that that's what was going on, that that's where the spirit activity came from.
Some of the things that happened other than like, there was one instance
where I was sitting in a chair in the corner. There's a floor lamp
behind me. The lamp shades kind of above and behind my head in the
corner. Right I sit down in the chair, the lamp shade behind my
head rattles enough where I can like feel air coming off of it. And
the only way I can describe it is it felt like somebody stood up and
walked away from the chair, like they stood up where like I sat on
somebody, and it just I don't know, I don't know how. I'm
getting goosebumps right now. I'm totally picturing it in my bed. That's just
what it felt like. And then there was like a couple times where I
thought, you know, you see somebody standing off out of the corner of
your eye in a different room, but you know there's nobody there, and
you turn to look and there's nothing there. Right, But the big one
that kept on happening. The house was set up kind of weird. You
would come in the front door and there's the living room off to the right
as a bedroom. Straight through the living room is a dining room with an
archway separating it, and off to the right of the dining room was another
doorway, and there's like this little hallway area that connects the back bedroom,
the dining room, the front bedroom, and the bathroom. Okay, so
you can close all these doors and it creates a little chamber right that back
bedroom. That door we never used. The back bedroom. I have my
suspicions that that might be the room for I think that was the room where
it happened because the carpet had been replaced in that room, but the door.
The reason I know the carpet was replaced was because the door would stick
to the carpet. It was hard to open and close, like physically hard.
You had to put some elbow grease into it. And we know,
being young kids moving out for the first time, we didn't have a lot
of furniture or anything. We only needed the one bedroom. We just never
used that room for anything. So that door just stayed closed. Sure,
And you would go into the bathroom and come out of the bathroom and the
door would be open to that back bedroom. You would close the door,
go to the living room. A little while later, go to the bathroom
or something, that door would be open again. Oh I would have been
out of there. Or you would go into the bathroom, come out and
see the light had been turned on in the bedroom and the door was still
closed. That was another one. The light kept on turning itself on and
you open the door, turned the light off, close the door. An
hour later, go back to the bathroom, lights back on. Switch has
been flipped back up. The whole thing. And this didn't make you,
guys run from the house. I'm an idiot, okay. So then another
big thing that happened that I remember was so there was a little back porch
area that had you know, an outside screen, door, storm door,
whatever you want. To call it. And then there the wooden door coming
into the actual interior of the house. Sure, and it came into the
kitchen and next to the door was a washer and dryer for laundry. And
that door would not stay closed either. It would open and you could dead
bolt it and it would unlock itself and open. You could lock the storm
door on the porch so nobody could access that door. Lock the interior door
and it would unlock itself and open, and it kind of like, oh,
it didn't do like the real creepy creek, but it made noise whenever
it opened. So you'd be sitting in the living room watching TV and you
would hear the door open. I had to literally slide the dryer in front
of the door to keep it from happening. Wow. Yeah, So yeah,
this house had some stuff going on. So one night, I was
a smoker at the time, and I had gone out onto the front porch
to smoke a cigarette. It had a wooden front porch with the covered roof
and everything, and there's a single step going up to the porch. The
porch was probably a foot off the ground at the most. It wasn't like
a real tall porch or anything. And off to the side of the steps
was a bush that went across the front of the porch. And then if
I was sitting on the steps looking out towards the street, and so to
my right is a small area where you can like walk between the houses.
There's a fence over there in the neighbor's house. But if you're looking off
the end of the porch, there's no bushes there or anything. It's just
open. Okay. So I'm sitting there smoking a cigarette. It's late,
it's dark, and something catches my just some movement kind of in front of
the bush, like something was walking towards me and saw me and turn around
and scurried off. I didn't see what it was. I just saw like
a little flash of brown and I thought, oh, is that a cat.
That's what I'm thinking. Right, So I look towards the end of
the porch, thinking that I'm going to see a cat run by, right,
and I see a little about two foot tall men covered in what looks
to be homemade clothing of some kind. I would compare it to like buckskins,
okay, long dark hair, and it just looked I mean, it
just looked like a little human wearing like what I would consider primitive type clothing,
just run past the end of my porch down between the houses. Wow.
And I jump up and I look, I don't see anything. There's
nothing between the houses. I wasn't going to follow it between the houses.
I was one thousand percent sure of what I saw. It was not a
cat, it was not a dog. It was on two legs. It
looked like a person. It was dark, so I couldn't make out a
lot of details. I didn't have the porch light on or anything, but
there was light inside the house, you know, so there was like ambient
light coming through the windows enough that I could see, you know, like
sure the clothing. It actually had sleeves, and I could see like a
line separating like I think it was pants. I don't know that it was
pants, you know. I couldn't see that far down because the heart of
it was like blocked by the porch, right, But it was definitely on
two legs, pumping its arms just like you were talking about, and just
running, just scurrying off. Wow. And I mean, what else could
it be? What else could it possibly be? And it was shortly after
that that I did move out of that house. That was Yeah, that
was just too much for me. Were there was she the only Native American
in the neighborhood. I don't know, I do not know. Like I
said, this was not this was not a good neighborhood. This was a
bad place to live. I did not, you know, venture off my
property at night. The house that was on that side where it like ran
between the two houses. That house, that property was owned by a Hispanic
family, Okay, and it was scary. I mean there was a lot
of people living there. I will not speculate on that, but there was
a lot of people living there, and they had like some makeshift tents and
stuff in the backyard. They had chickens, they had a goat. There's
stuff going on there. And I just left them alone, left them to
themselves, and they left me alone. No. See, they have a
name for little people too. I'm not sure how they pronounced it, but
it's spelled d u e n d e and that's their name for little people.
I mean, every culture does pretty much, every culture has something,
whether it be you know, the fay fairies, gnomes, whatever they call
it, everybody has this thing. But it was just you know, wow,
I kind of went, you know, I was shocked by this point
in time, me and the girl that I was living. She was no
longer my girlfriend, she was no longer there. You know. I ran
inside and locked the door, and I'm just like, what wasn't I just
saw, you know, like trying to process it, trying to like,
I know what I saw. And that's whenever it kind of kicked me in
the butt that that old woman had told me that there was little people there
and I didn't believe her, and I never got. The one regret I
have about the whole scenario is I didn't go back to the old lady and
tell her about it or ask her about it. It was just, you
know, a life changing moment. Yeah, it was just everything has changed
now, especially especially, I mean I had native friends growing up. I
had Native friends whenever I was living in that house, and I had heard
stories about stuff. But it's never in the middle of the city. That's
not possible. You know. I wasn't out on some property in the woods
somewhere. I wasn't out of cabin or anything like that. I was in
the middle of the city, where it's supposed to be safe from these sort
of things. Well, it's funny that you say that, because our group
does a lot of investigating at Stinchcombe, which is right outside of Oklaholm,
well close to Oklahoma City. Yeah, and when you go out there and
you think to yourself, how is this even possible? There are people everywhere,
including people that hike in Stinchcomb, yet that's where they're seen. It's
a quite amazing Well. I talked to a buddy of mine, Yohola Tiger,
who has a podcast called The Warcry Podcast. He's native originally from Tallaquah
and Okay. I told him about this story, you know, I told
him what had happened everything, and he said that the belief is that they
have their own travel routes and that they can go sort of in and out
of our physical plane and kat that might have just been part of a travel
route that that was there hundreds of years ago, and they just happened to
build Tulsa here, and you know, my house happened to be right there.
Interesting. Yeah, I thought that was a really interesting concept that I
hadn't heard before. Yes, I like that. That gave me some sort
of possible explanation, you know, right that there's a lot of people that
believe that. Yeah, of the different planes. Yeah, I've never really
thought about that, but sometimes the more I hear these stories, I'm like,
well, you know, I mean you never know, No, I
mean I was just thinking about that earlier today, actually, about whenever it
comes to some of the weird stuff, you know, because you hear weird
stories, you know, whenever you start looking into Bigfoot, Yes, and
I know the general consensus of no, bro right, you got have your
foundation of like, Okay, well, we're looking for physical evidence. We're
looking for footprints, we're looking for hair, you know. Correct, We're
approaching this where we let the evidence lead us, right, you know,
we're not going to jump to they can turn invisible or anything like that unless
we have evidence to support that and witness that. So yeah, yep,
that's it exactly. But then as a Christian, I think of all the
things that we believe that are considered supernatural and paranormal. Yes, why couldn't
it happen? Why couldn't these other things take place? And so it creates
it's quite a dynamic, well, especially when it comes to Bigfoot, because
you hear so many variations of who they are, what they are, where
they came from, how long they've been here, and I just my personal
opinion. This has nothing to do with my group. It's just kind of
how I feel and think. I can't help but think they're part human and
I think they've been here from the beginning of time. I really believe they
are just another group of people that have now lived in the wilderness for so
long and they've just adapted to their surroundings and that's why they're covered in the
fur. And I just, I don't know. It's fascinating to hear everybody's
different opinions on the subject and trying to formulate exactly what they are. I
mean, my ultimate dream, of course, I'm crazy, but I would
just love to see one in the wild. And I always picture myself just
sitting down on the ground with my head bowed down, as if I'm just
telling them I'm safe. I just I'm here and I want to see you,
and I want one to talk to me. You talk to me,
Okay, that's a picture in my mind. That's what I would love to
happen. Well, I mean maybe it will happen. Who knows, you,
I don't know. After what you've experienced. I wouldn't close the door
on any possibilities. Well that's what Troy was saying. He said, now
that this has happened, it may open the door to other things happening.
Whether good or bad, you don't know. But you know, I'm always
kind of sad that we go out on these investigations and I never get to
see one. Why can't I see one? I put myself out there all
the time, and I try to. Yeah, I hope that I have
a pure heart and all these different things, and you get sad and sometimes
it's frustrating and you think, why am I doing this? I'm never going
to see one? And then all of a sudden, I see a little
person and I'm like, Okay, I guess it can just happen at any
time. Maybe I was vulnerable that morning. I don't know. I mean
I would say, go out there, enjoy nature, enjoy you know,
the people, your friends that you're in, the friendships that you're forming,
and quit looking for them. And that's what I've been doing. Maybe you'll
see one. Yeah, that's what I've been told. It is. It's
fun and it's like you said, it's a great bonding experience. I get
to meet a lot of fun people from all over the place, and I
love hearing everybody's stories. There are emotions that they feel when when they have
seen one. That's what keeps me driven to keep doing what I'm doing.
One final thing, Okay, I got to ask you own an antique shop.
Yes, anything weird happened at the shop? I don't own it,
I just tell run it. Okay, not in this shop now, Okay,
yeah, not in this shop. But I've always wondered if anything has
ever happened there because above the shop is like old apartments, and what is
so neat about them is it was like everybody had their own little space,
but out in the middle was like a common room where they would hang out.
So all these little doors would open up onto this common room. And
it's almost untouched up there. I mean it's falling apart. But I would
love to just sit up there one night and just see what happens. Because
the building across from us is apparently haunted. So do you do you want
to hear a crazy story? Yes, nothing paranormal or supernatural. Okay,
just a little, just a little story for you. We're going to pretend
Okay, disclosure completely disclosure here. Obviously, whenever I found out where you're
from and everything, I got excited because my entire childhood is tied to that
area. The girlfriend, right, the girlfriend that moved into that house with
me, her and her family are from Showdough. Really. Yeah, So,
like I'm telling you, I got excited. So I may or may
not have looked up the shop and where it's at in private. Okay,
So well, one day this week, I can't remember what day it was,
Friday, maybe I was eating my lunch at my desk in the shop
and I hear this voice say to me, have you had any more sightings?
And I looked up and I was like, I'm sorry, do I
know you? And she said, well, you're the girl from that YouTube
video, right, Yes, that's me. And yeah. So she was
like, I just think that's fascinating. She just happened to going through YouTube
and this video popped up and she thought, okay, that looks interesting,
and she watched it and she in the video I mentioned a store, but
I don't think I mentioned the name, but she just came up to prior
to go shopping, and she said she came through the front door, and
she was like, oh my goodness, that's that girl. But yeah,
I have people. The word has gotten out. In fact, we did
an investigation down by Fort Gibson not very long ago because an older gentleman had
come in the store and he's in his seventies, and he came up to
my desk and he goes, are you the bigfoot lady? And I said,
I guess so yes, and he goes, well, I have some
stories I need to tell you, and so he told me his stories and
we did an investigation down there. That's so great. That's so awesome.
I know, it's so fun. So yeah, I get to meet people
and I get us some leads that we investigate every now and then. And
it's just I think people feel comfortable coming into the store to talk to me.
One because I'm a woman. I think people are just a little bit
more relaxed with that. Yes, very I'm just very normal and very relaxed.
And I just they tell me what they tell me, and I don't
push them, and if they want to leave me more information, that's great,
and if they don't, well that's great too. I'm just glad that
they can feel relaxed enough to come let me know what they've seen. So
well, again, not paranormal in any way, just kind of weird.
Whenever I was a kid and we were going to the lake House every single
weekend of my life and spending all summers there. I had other family members
that also had places in the same little neghbor. It was a trailer park
for retirees and a lot of us were weekenders, right. And I had
anunt and uncle who also had a trailer in this trailer park, and he
was actually the judge of Taalaquah at the time. Wow. But whenever,
he wasn't being a judge and he was just being my uncle Bill. He
was a hilarious guy, very down to earth, one of the greatest people
I've ever met in my life, one of my heroes for sure. But
one of his favorite things to do in his pastime was dumpster dive. Well
no, yeah, so, to the best of my election, we were
dumpster diving one evening in an alleyway that was possibly behind your shop or very
close to it in proximity. We found in this dumpster a prosthetic leg.
Oh my goodness, like an entire leg. My uncle pulled a leg out
of the dumpster. That's fantastic. And I just always here it is,
you know, like geez, I don't even want to think about how many
years later, decades later, and I still just really want to know where
did that prosthetic leg come from? Who threw away? Joke? That's just
crazy. Yeah, but you find the darnis things and dumpsters. He also
it wasn't there. It was actually in Tallaquai. He found a baby,
like an actual baby that unfortunately, yes unfortunately, a mother had abandon her
baby in a dumpster. Oh my goodness. And fortunately enough he found it
and it was still alive, it was still in good health and everything.
And you know, he was a judge, so he knew where to take
it and handle it. But yeah, yeah, crazy stuff. Well Taliqua,
you bring up Talaquat. That's another whole area that's got a lot going
on. It sure does. Yeah. Yes, there's not enough hours or
days of the week to be able to go and see all these places that
we need to be out and about investigating. It gets a little frustrating sometimes.
I mean, Tahlequah was on the news whenever I was a kid for
bigfoot stuff. There's a lady who saw one digging through the trash barrel out
behind her home. And I asked my uncle about that before he passed away.
I had already started bigfooting, okay, And he didn't make fun of
me or anything, and so I asked that good. Yeah, I asked
him about that specific situation, you know, whenever it was on the news
and anything. He said, well, I can tell you this. The
deputy that investigated worked for me. You worked, you know, there in
Tahaquah. And I talked to him about it, and he found tracks footprints.
Wow, and he said there's no way that that lady was mine and
that there was definitely some than out there. That's awesome. Well, Jody,
I appreciate you coming on here and uh expose. Yeah, yeah,
it's great. I'm so glad Evan's connected us. Always down to talk to
a fellow ogie and wow, sharing something in common like this is it's pretty
amazing. It's pretty neat. Yeah, yes it is. And if you've
had an encounter with bigfoot or something else you can't explain, send me an
email at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out the website Bigfoot Crossroads
dot com. That's where you can find all the past episodes, links to
merchandise where you can grab a t shirt, and links to all the social
media. And until next time, remember there's something in the woods US