V for Vendetta with Marcella Arguello

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Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, Welcome to the beck Del Cast. My name is Jamie, my name is Katelin, says our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. That's right, and how it's usually not good. That's right, but sometimes it is sometimes better than you think. Rightsive, those are the outliers. I'm negative. Nancy over here, still fun, dynamic? Yeah, good cop, bad cop. Yeah, I'm feeling I'm feeling good today. It's very hot, but it's okay. And you just came from Universal Studios. I did. I have a friend in town and I had to occupy her for a finite number of hours. Had some passes to Universal. It worked out perfect. So we went on a bunch of did you go to the Mommy Ride? If we go to the mad it's the best ride. Yes, we did go to the Mommy Ride. When on the Harry Potter Ride, When in the Simpsons ride, did did the whole bit, you know, like reach that point where It's like we've been friends for so long that we got into like a small silent argument in the middle of the day, and then it just passed in the way that it does with old friends. And then we went on the Harry Potter ran again and now I'm here a pretty good day. Great, awesome. I sat in my bed for several hours. Amazing. Also a good day. So our podcast is inspired by the Bechdel Test. It's a test that requires that two characters in the movie are women, They have names, they talk to each other in their conversation. It can be about anything besides a man created by Alison Bechdel. Been around for a long time. We just use it as a yardstick for a larger discussion that was concise, that was that was a really good one, good for us, for us, for us, all right, And with that, let's introduce our guests. You've seen her on at midnight. She's gonna win at midnight world times. She's a hilarious comedian. Marcella Arguayo, Oh my god, thank you so much. Told the applause, Thank you everybody, Thank you for having me, Thanks for coming. I'm excited. So we're talking about v for Vendetta my favorite movie, okay, of all time? I think, so well cool. When did you first see it? Bad? I can't answer. I don't know. I don't know when I first saw it. I just remember loving it and calling it more, and then watching it again and loving it more. And this is coming from a person who hates movies. I hate movies, and I don't know. I don't know what did it. I mean, I guess I could guess, but I remember at the beginning, I was like, I don't know what. Why do I keep watching this movie over and over and over again? When I loved it? Um, it used to be I would watch it every fifth of November because I was like, I'm watching this every year, I might as well kind of like save it for the fifth of November. And then my dad's funeral was on the fifth of November, and then I stopped watching it. I stopped watching it for a few years, and then I just recently got back into watching it again. I don't know. I can't associate the November five. I can associated with two things and be fine with it. And actually that might have been the first November if they missed it for for that exact reason. And it's weird because I don't even know how I landed on it, because, like I said, I don't like a lot of movies, like watching a lot of movies, but I really I liked this one, and this is one of those movies too, Like I like, even by looking at the poster, you're like, oh, this movie is pretty long. Ye Like it looks like, oh this is We're going to have to strap in and do some thinking on this one. All right, Am I ready a lecture? Yeah? Exactly. There's gonna be some philosophical something or other, So there's gonna be a lot of Domino visual. One of my favorite parts of the movie, like, oh he just had this, He just had those rounds he did. Yeah, he had everything. Where did come from? He's still in a bunch of somebody also was able to somehow for that giant house shadow gallery that he lived in. This is what I kind of like about like graphic novel adaptations to or like it's even more so than film. I feel like such a visual symbolic medium that when it's adapted to film, like probably in the graphic novel, it looks super cool and normal to be like, oh, he just has these dominants, but in the movie you're just like, wait, he just has those dominant Like it's still super cool, but I was like taken out of it for a second of like who set those up? Like he lives alone, he doesn't doesn't use the internet. No, that's another thing. This takes place in twenties seven, and no one seems to have phones, and there's like chunky desktops, which I also love. I love. I love like futuristic movies for that reason of like why do they have, you know, personalized door knobs, but no one has a cell phone. The video that he like makes everyone watch when he's like, in a year from now, I'm going to blow up a building. It's on like a like a little mini seed like that technology. I used to love those mini c ds though, because you could, like you could get them at Staples, and I would remember I would make my friends mix CDs, but you could only fit like three or four songs on it. It was had to be really concise mix. Yeah, and he had a concise mix. He did well. And to your point about the future, and they didn't have any cell phones, but their government was controlling them, so they would have cell phones, So it was just like all in theory, all the informations routed to them via TV and that's their only source. That makes sense. Yeah, well yeah, because that would cut down on their ability to communicate with each If you try to make fun of this movie, I'm gonna knock you down. That's why we do this. I love this movie. The Dominoes though. The Dominoes really I like rerouted again just to be like, where did these art department who? Like, every time I see that, that's what I think about, especially now I'm worked. I've worked in this industry, Like, oh my god, how many times did they have to do that? That's like, I hope there was a shot that they did where the Dominoes went perfectly and they're like, oh my god, the camera wasn't onwards, battery was out. We're so sorry. It looked amazing. Please reset all four thousand domina Oh my god. That's that's all. It's the only thing I think of now when I watched it. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like a it's like a visually beautiful movie. There's so there's so much and the graphic novel is really dark. So you've read it, Yeah, I've read it and it's obviously longer, and I'm not one of those like the books movie because I didn't watch I didn't read the book before I watched the movie. So for me, I'm just like, it's different. It's just a little different. But I like because it's darker, which is where the element of that like darkness, and it's always kind of just there's just so there's so many elements of darkness. We've said it five times now dark Um. It's a same author as Watchmen, which I didn't enjoy. I did not enjoy that movie. I liked the book. I mean they're similar books like thematically, it's a very dark very he's a he's a head scratcher, that Alan Moore. He's also got a big old head of hair. I got his Wikipedia. He is h he's a wanderer. You could tell you he's walking the streets at night and getting inspired. Yeah, he's with his hands in pockets. Very film noir. I was trying to figure out more about what his deal is so he would not put his name on this movie. I read that. Yeah, I think and wouldn't take royalties either, because I think he's just like I don't know old punk rock k I read something to the fact that he was dissatisfied with other film adaptations of his works he was watching before this or after after, but he was referring to he was not satisfied with the adaptations of From Hell or or A League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. So he's like, I'm not going to watch me for Vendetta and Funk calling you guys it was probably the best one. Yeah, yeah, that's only you. Hear most about, like people still watch it, Yeah, yeah, yeah, people are still inspired by it, which brings me to my history when this mommy. I saw it in the theater I think multiple times, and I was obsessed with it for a while. I was so obsessed with it I wanted to get a tattoo of the V symbol. Well I never did, but I was like, I, God, maybe I should get because I would very very much regret it. But I was like, maybe my first tattoo will be in the V symbol. Yeah, I just I loved it. I saw it so many times, but um, I hadn't seen it in quite a few years before I rewatched it for this, and I have a bit of a different take on it. Oh yeah, I still like it, and I was still very moved by it. I cried like three different times. That's like, but watching it through, watching it through the Bechdel lens, you have a little different perspective on it. I can understand that, Yeah, I saw this movie. I want to say I saw it like late high school or something like that. And then I remember, right before I went to college, someone gave me a V for Vendetta poster and I and I like, I didn't super remember the movie very well, but I liked what that projected. I was like, it would be cool if someone wanted my room and saw Viva Vendetta poster. So remember my whole freshman year of college, I had a v from Himdetta poster, and I was just constantly in fear someone was going to ask me a follow up question, like I would be like, I don't what is it about? Because I would wake up next to it every day and be like, man, I like what this says about me. I feel like it says I'm cool. But I was. I liked the movie, but I had only seen it once and then maybe I think I've seen it maybe three times total. Now I watched it yesterday. Yeah, yeah, well I can't wait to discuss it. But first I'll do the recap, pre cap, pree cap so V for Vendetta is set in the UK in sort of like a police state, um neo fascist regime. We meet Evie Hammond, the young woman, and we meet the sort of like a radical vigilante guy who is trying to ignite a revolution, and they cross paths on his way to blowing up the Old Bailey, this monument basically like a high a politicized Phantom of the Opera. That's like accurate, right. He wears a mask. You never see him to take off his mask in the entire movie and dry Butler and Fantom of the And they crossed paths and he ends up having to save her from Fingerman these like cops who are trying to rape her. Ironically, yeah, man, who want to finger her? What a scary scene, like right at the that's I had forgotten about that scene. That was the watch I really was. And then so she sort of becomes embroiled in his plot. He wants to blow up the houses of Parliament, inspired by Guy Fox who tried to do the same thing in sixteen o five. But you find out you learn over the course of the movie that he has this vendetta whoa that's the name of the movie. He's trying to seek revenge on different members who rose to power who had wronged him. He was basically imprisoned in this facility, was tested on. They were like trying to develop biological warfare viruses that they could that they did unleash on the population. A hundred thousand people or something like who died. Yeah, the government, in their sort of authoritarian style covered it all up and they're like it was actually these religious extremists, but it was actually the government who did this. So he's basically trying to uncover all these secrets and kill all the people who wronged him. And then he wants to blow up the building because the building is a symbol and that's going to ignite a revolution that he went. So he's like, in a year, I'm going to blow up this building, and everyone's like, oh my god, oh gay, And then I love it, like it is like, oh, just count down to domestic terrorism. From moment one of the movie, you're like, yeah, cool. So he has to basically capture and imprison Evy because she gets this whole like recurring theme of I'm going to kidnap this woman and re educate her to think exactly like me. There's a lot of parallels between and then like kind of a I guess, like not as much Beauty and the Beast for me. It's just like a weird like I'm taking this woman who speaks to me for whatever reason and that's open to interpretation, and I'm gonna, you know, kind of just get her too things like me and agree with me on things. And then you know, I don't know, I don't know where Yeah, well, I mean I know, I mean, oh, I mean that's what this movie is about. Although you could argue differently, but like, yeah, we're watching. I was like, oh man, sorry, I keep in directing. No, it's I mean, I'm sort of all over the place with this recap because it's a hard movie to summarize. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. So there's also this Chief Inspector Finch, who is trying to uncover the identity of v and he's also after Evie Hammond because everyone thinks she's like this accomplice, which she ends up being. He's a real grumbly Powder. He's a pounding all He's like, hey, what's going on over here? Who can I trust? And then this whole sort of conspiracy gets uncovered where V was at this detention center at lark Hill. This virus had been tested on and they were able to use something about like the antibodies in his blood to develop a cure for the virus that then they then unleashed on the population for Chancellor Sutler to gain political power and then make a bunch of people rich in the in this party, this political party. So a lot of details, a lot going on, and then so in the end, V gets his last revenge on Chancellor Sutler and his like right hand gooney guy Creedy, and then V kills them both. And then evis like, I guess now I have to destroy the fucking Big Bend building. And then she does, and then everyone's like wow, a revolution, and the grumbly Powder guy is there too, and and she's like, I'm going to blow the building and he's kind of like, yeah, okay, I like that part where he's like, you know what's like, you know what, I'm gonna just stand up together? Ye yes, yeah, you see, like a flash forward. It's like the future and they're together. So that's at the moment that they write that it happened. M what a little what a cute meet cute. It's a real it's a real round come meetute. That's for sure. I can't wait to meet my next boyfriend on the eve of a revolution. That's the high stakes meet cute, and I'm into it. What a good story? Like, oh yeah, before we blew up parliament, we're like, maybe there's something here, yeah, question And this may have just genuinely been like I was not paying close enough attention. Um, were there people in the Parliament building? Were we killing people? I feel like they had a year's notice to like call in to work that day. Yeah, I don't know. It didn't seem like there was or I think I just seen it. Okay, that makes me feel a little bit. I mean, I would assume it would strictly be employees, So why would it be working in the middle of the night. That's true, Yeah, because it was at midnight when this happened. I was just I was just like, I just hope. Yeah. I don't think I'm all for symbolism. I just don't want to want to get hurt. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think people were in the building. If there were, would have seen it, right. I don't think anyone was killed when he blew up the bay Lee monument, either because he did a lot of people. But but it would have been reported or would it have been because the government, it would have been discussed in the movie, not necessarily told or informed. We would we would know. So that's the story, and I kind of want to go through the story in a different way, but as it relates to the treatment of women, so I have some like major pointing. So one of the first things that happens is that ev goes outside past this government curfew and almost gets raped by policemen the government, right, and then she has to be saved by a man, and this is when she meets V. So we see the trope of a of a man having to save a woman because she's in a dangerous situation. Well, there there is something to be said about, especially what's going on in the news right now with the Harvey Weinstein's and all these motherfucker's that are sexually assaulting and raping women. I mean, we do need men to stand beside us, so sure. So in that way, I do like that he does save her because he knows it's the right thing to do, and he almost makes her feel like I'm not going to do this too, because that's not right. There are people, there are men and women that can exist side by side, and a woman does not have to feel like she's going to be raped by a man, because there's plenty of guy friends of mine that I feel that way. I feel safe with them, and we have to feel safe with men in order to coexist, right, So I actually like that. I honestly didn't mind it either. I was more calling out that that is a trup that we see over and over again, but it never bothered me with this movie when I saw it. Well also we we I mean, how often do we see a woman about to get raped and then the dude immediately kills those dudes because he's like, fuck you, how fucking dare you rape this? Like no questions asked, Like there's rarely immediate consequence, which is nice to see it. It is, And it's also it's just nice that he just just like, oh, you're gonna rape her, I'm gonna kill you, Like that's not why are you mean this? And he doesn't know her, he doesn't need to know her. I love that. I really do love that. Yeah, I I I'm always like a little bit like the second I you know, if a woman is being like rescued at the very top of the movies, and I'm like, I don't know. But what I really do like about that scene is that the conversation that takes place afterwards, where it's not implied in any way that she owes him something, where she asks her to hang that's okay, she agrees, that's okay, Like I, you know, where it's like, okay, we've seen, you know, at the top of the movie the man saves the woman. But then I feel like it's very often implied and now she is indebted to him and it will spend a lot of time in the movie trying to, you know, repay him, and that was never implied in their relationship. Was also like the first time the spark in his eye for her started because he did the whole vv vv V and his monologue and what's her name? And what's her name? E V And he says, of course it is, you know, it's it's it's right. I love it well, because his whole theme is there are no coincidences. You know, everything is supposed to be the illusion of yeah, it's it's linear, and uh, I like that she has She's just like this, who is this fucking psychopath? And he was just like, oh no, this is meant to be. This is kind of cool. Right. Do you think that he workshopped that speech? Do you think he took it to open my practice? I'm so ready for that moment? Like, and that's another fun like adaptation trope where it's like that's such a like you know, such a like poetic, like every word in the dictionary that begins with V, he's like vile and viola ver like you know, he went through there's a lot of words he crossed out, probably in the pursuit of He's like, well, when I meet a girl that I like, I'm going to be so ready with not even it. He was just like, when someone is worth talking to, I'm going to be able to unleash the he's got. I've got a tight three minutes of speech, and he got and he's been practicing it the way he practices, which I thought was very It was charming. You know what he's weird, he's weird, he likes to have fun, he's still he's still childlike. Yeah, the best people are still childlike. And also I feel like just a general this isn't even like a super gendered trope, but like just you see like very isolated, lonely characters you don't very often see just weird ship that they do, Like you know, when you're alone a lot, and I can speak from personal experience, you do weird ship, and like when someone's around, you're like, oh wait, sorry, that's weird. Like I really enjoyed because when she walks in on him, he's so embarrassed. He's like, right, it would have been so easy for him to be like and here's five more words that begin with me. But he's sort of like, oh sorry, it's my favorite movie and do you want to watch it? Like it's super cute, and then he recites the lines as he's watching. It's just something I am so guilty of it very interest You'll find your own tree. Yeah, I thought that that was He even changed his voice to say the line that's what was also cute. Yeah, I was very charmed by that scene. I watched it twice back to the like him saving her thing. I wasn't bothered by it as much because then you see her save him later with what's that character's named Dominic. One of the detectives is about to shoot him when they're in the bt N building and Evie taps him on the shoulder and then mass him, allowing v to get away. So right, she sort of returns. I mean, that's why I always liked and he always knew as there were equals. That's what I always liked about their romance. Is as soon as he met her and found out her name was Evie, he was like, oh, fuck, yeah, she's it. She's my equal, and not like she's a bitch I want to fuck. She's my equal. And that's why you know she she saves his life because he saved hers. And it's like, that's what you do. You pay, You pay motherfucker back. Okay, So the next thing that happens, and again I'm just sort of like, I know, like the movie is more nuanced than this, there's a lot more to take into consideration, but I'm sort of just boiling down like very basic plot points. So the next thing that happened, so she goes with him to this quote unquote concert. The building explodes and it's clear that V had something to do with it. So the next day at work, she was like a BBC adjacent but it's like a government controlled TV network fake news, fake very fake news. I love just really quick. I love the I forget what his title was, but like the guy's TV shower just like what like again, just fun futuristic production design. That's like who is this for it? Like I have forty five TVs that show the same channel in my shower, right, Yeah, that was that was like such a and he would just turn around and be four more TVs. It was great. Oh that scene was a little crazy to me because so EV's job is you can sort of assume like a p A because someone asks her to get like coffee, but then she also somehow has the clearance to access that dude's like private office room because V uses her. I d to like scanself into that, and it's like she would not have that clearance. Yeah, but it's fine, We'll ignore that. I was also going to say, and I don't know if you ladies feel this, but it's it's definitely different to watching the Trump era. Watching this is actually a crazy movie to watch right now, especially because I feel that this sort of like authoritarian government already sort of is happening or could get much worse in this movie any day. And that was the thing I think when I first watched it when I was younger, I was like, this is possible. I remember thinking that this is something that could happen if people don't speak up, if they don't because when I was I guess that's the other thing is when I was younger, when I was in my early twenties, used to be so much more politically active. I would march with my with my friends. My my friend she used to organize marches and protests and now she's a civil rights lawyer and I used to march with her and we would do all this ship. And I remember like watching this movie and being like, this is what could happen if we don't do anything. And then now we're like in it. So it's interesting to watch because people are now becoming informed, I think through Trump. So I guess it's it's like, guys, we got to avoid this ship right here. This is the ship we're trying to avoid, you know. It's it didn't feel as you know, alternative future as it as it used to. Yeah, like you know five when it came out, like you know, it feels like a possibility, but there weren't quite as many direct parallels that, you know. Yeah, it is a very bizarre movie to watch, even just like with the way that the government treats it's people where that felt I remember, I remember like when I first saw it felt way more cartoony then it does now and just yeah, just waiting for that curfew to roll in. I mean, for me, it didn't feel cartoony in the past because my parents came from a third world government, Like I've been informed about this ship. So for me, it was always like this could happen. So for me, it was always this could happen, This could happen. Now watching it was like, oh, this is happening, you know, and like like going back to fake news, like that's what's happening. It's so weird to watch in a movie in a theatrical sense because you're like, this is how these conversations are happening within our own government right now. Not that it wasn't the same in the past. I'm sure the government and the news were always working a little bit side by side, but now it's like their enemies because they're not all working together with the government, and so it's like it's being exposed. It's so weird, man. Yeah, I mean, I feel like Trump has like taken down that fourth wall, you know, yeah, and trying to build up another one between here in Mexico. But thanks, guys, I'm here for the jokes anyway. So the next thing that happens, he comes to the TV network, he plays his message to all the people on the little tinny c d oh yeah yeah, and then she helps and saves him by macing the cop which Jame mentioned earlier. He takes her and basically forces her to live with him for a year, or that's the expectation at that point, which we understand why he does that, otherwise she would be grave danger or killed. But it's also like the thing where it's like you are my prisoners sort of. It's it's again, it's not to keep pulling it back to family and the opera, but I mean it's like a more justified, high stakes version of that story where it's like it is for her safety, but there's but he also gives it the option. It's true, like, yeah, you can leave right she does and she does. Um, I don't know their their relationship is something that It's just like there were some points where I was like, Okay, I get it, and then other points where I was like, this does not bode well. I don't know. Well, well, I was gonna say, before we get into this, I was going to bring up the plan the year in advance protests, whatever you wanna call it. I just found it funny because when um Rose McGowan did the women boycott Twitter thing, I was like, that's why it didn't work, because a bitch don't plan the ship out like a good protest or a good boycott. You need to let everybody know. You need to like set a date, you need all that it's happening. There needs to be some build up so that there are some consequences that are severe. This wasn't that like a next day. I found out in the middle of what I was supposed to. That's why I was so stupid. I mean it was I was like, listen, bit, if you would have planned this like next week, I'm getting up Twitter four a week, then we could have all had that discussion. Women of color could have been like, what the funk are you talking about? And you know, we could have had those arguments with each other or there's discussions with each other. Um So I love that he's like in a year, motherfucker's I'm a ride or die for this ship? Are you? I'm bunkering down until it happens. But I love I love that, and I love that. You know, the timeline of the movie, I just everybody's you know, it's the Fall, It's the and it builds well, it builds very well. So the next thing that happens is that she essentially tricks him into thinking that she wants to help, and whether or not she actually wants to help maybe the case, but she sort of uses it as a way to try to escape, which is what happens where she's like, I want to help. If there's anything I can do. He's like, actually, you can dress up as a sex worker and trick this and this is one of those moms whereas like, ah, there, surely there was another way to do that, but she yeah. So she then goes to this bishop who's one of the people that V is targeting to kill, and then she's all like, help me I need protection. I'm evie him, and I'm a prisoner of this terrorist. The bishop doesn't believe her. He just proceeds with trying to rape her, and then he comes in and kills him. I actually liked that scene because I love that men are so perverted and fucked up that women can use their sexuality against them, because men are weak, and I wish them more women knew how to manipulate that and into our favor, you know, which is why I like them working side by side to kind of take advantage of this man's weakness of you know, wanting to fuck kids, and then they use it against him and then he kills him, which is great. Yeah, because I think sex workers should be looked at as heroes in our society because they are doing the lord's work, because men are pieces of ship. Um not all man hashtag whatever funk off, but so many men are. Aristottle is really nice. Everyone else he can say, he can say everyone else, everyone. I just I just think that sex workers are are looked down upon, and I love that they kind of flipped it on its head of like, no, they're going to use this against him, and it is his inevitable downfall, and it's because men are weak. I was feeling hard for for e V in that scene because like, for a large trunk of the movie, and and towards the end she's able to you know, she has agency more in a way where she has more options, but for for a lot of the movie, it's very survival based decisions that she has to make of like this is what I have to do to stay on this person's good side so that I can remain safe, or this is what I have to do so I can remain alive or whatever. So like there's so much going on in that scene of like she has I don't know if I do. We we don't see that discussion of like the plan of right, so we don't know whose idea it is or like or anything like that. Maybe that's in the book. I don't remember, but like we see her do that, and it's like, Okay, this was someone's idea. We don't know whose idea was. It could have been EV's idea. But then you know, once she's in that interaction with the bishop, she's placed a fair amount of trust in his authority to help her out and get her free of someone she's not yet quite sure about, and then that backfires and he's a fucking lecherous, evil creed and then he's killed rightfully. So but in now she suddenly faced with this new dynamic of like, now V knows that she doesn't really trust him, and she just is like I'm sorry and like leaves and it's like, I just that whole scene was so stressful to watch, but it's just like she's just making all these survival based decisions of like, Okay, that happened, Now what do I do to remain safe? Yeah, but that scene is good because it's a reminder to people that they shouldn't trust people that are in power just because they're in power. That's why I like that scene, because I like that she puts faith in a bishop because I think we all would think that would be the thing to do with that moment, to be able to trust, right. And then once you realize that's a mistake, she runs because she was like, well, not who do I trust? You know? And I do to your point, I do like that She's always making these like last minute decisions, but they keep kind of exposing who the real weak people are in our society. Well, which is why I like kind of hits for me that she does end up trusting V by the I mean, and there are other points that will get to but it is sort of time and time again where she we see her testing everything she's been taught and that is unraveling and really the only consistent anything is the wanting to keep her safe. Well, he's trying to make her strong. I mean, that's what she says, and that when she's first captured, because like, I wish I was stronger. I wish I wasn't so weak. And you see his you know, there's a shot of him where he kind of like cox his head like, oh you do do you you want to be stronger? I can make you stronger. A lot of head cock acting had to do. Like it's so funny about that movie is there's like these long monologues and it's just a mask, and you're like, am I really just watching a mask right now? Like no emotion there, just it's all on the boy's But I do I like that he just he sees it and he almost like accepts the challenge of like, bitch, I will make you the strongest, ye, I will make you as strong as I am. And we are, Because at first you're like, Okay, is she just saying that to on his good side so that he'll trust him enough for her to be able to leverage that into running away. But then you also understand why she could very well want that, because her sort of like main driving desire in this movie ends up being like, I do want to be stronger. I do want to be strong enough to rise up and tear down this regime basically well, and like learning about her background later exactly her parents did and stuff. Yeah, because her parents were political activists and her brother was killed in the St. Mary's virus outbreak, which is one of the things that like the government unleashed on its unpopulation to control its people, comparably, reasons for her to actually want that are established. So I mean, I think that was her journey in this movie is a lesson impulsiveness, because even after she saves him and spray paints dominic, the next morning, she's like, I don't know why I did that. I can't believe I did that. I don't know why I did that. Like she's questioning the thing that she impulsively did. But it was the right thing to do, you know, for her to save him, but she's listly doubting herself and questioning herself because she doesn't she's not thinking things through all the way because then he says, like, is that what you think? And that's the whole journey for her throughout the whole movie until you know it gets to work it, which is a compelling journey that we don't often see women go through in movies. So that's cool because that's the thing is, she's not making decisions based on her feelings for him. She's making decisions based on what she thinks she wants or doesn't want, or what's right or what's wrong for her. That's what she's doing, right, And in a lot of ways, I feel like she's for so long she is making a lot of instinctive survival based us. And then by the end she has more agency to the point where like v literally puts the agency in her hands and like, you decide whether this happens because you know the student is ready right, right? And I like that because by the end she genuinely does have a choice, and we see from most of the movie her not really having much of a choice, but she does have a choice. That's the things. She always had a choice, It's just that she didn't always think things through. That's why I like her story, because she constantly had to make a decision, and sometimes it was on a whim, right right, and something that again, just like watching it in this particular era right now is like there's a lot of fear based decision making too, where I don't think I mean, I don't remember specifically, but I don't think when I first saw this movie I could as closely identify with like, you know, it's like, why would she have this job at the not BBC working for the people who are oppressing her and everyone she knows. But then, you know, when you have more of a real life applicable way, it's like, oh, because she's afraid, Like look at all these people. She's lost for these exact reasons, and it does take a lot of inner strength to be able to, you know, make a a antarchic decision. Right. So um, okay, So now we're leading up to the part where she goes to Gordon Dietrich's house and Dietrich is a friend of hers and who hosts like weird Pratfall British like Benny Hill's style satire show. What a weird fun scene in the middle of that movie to watch that goofy goofy broadcast that gets him murdered. Yeah. Wild. Well, then that leads to what I find to be the most unsettling part of the movie is that she so she goes to Gordon Dietrich's house. She's under his care and protection for a while. Step. Yes, he makes that episode crazy. Yeah, it was cool that he was like defined, He's like, yeah, we we threwout the censor proof script shot this one. It gets him killed, He gets him black bagged by Creedy, and then yeah, they find a Koran in his house and that gets executed. And we also know he is one of I believe to queer characters whose stories we hear reference in this That's the other thing. This is one of the first movies that we've discussed on this podcast where there's a prominent character in the movie who is queer. We do kind of well yeah, yeah, yeah, the Valerie who we who we meet a little later. So yeah, So, once Dietrich gets captured by Creedy, she has to flee again, and then she gets captured almost immediately, and we assume that it's also by Creedy's people. She's in prison, she's locked in the cell. All of her hair gets shaven off. This woman, Yep, you get the more empowered you get in movies usually if you're it's the rule. Yes. Anyway, So she gets captured, she's in prison, she's tortured. We think it's from Creedy and all of those guys. And in this process of her being imprisoned, she loses her fear. She's like, you know what, I'm not going to be an informant. I'm not going to tell you where V is. You can funk off and shoot me. And she learns story. Who we learned is a character that was in the cell next V all those years ago when he was imprisoned and being used for these like biological experiments. That's also another moment I bugged me because she was like, I'm writing this note on toilet paper, and I'm like, that's a regular paper, right toilet paper in that world, Like you can write on his parchment. I know, it's like you're wiping her ass with really nice parching. That was one of those uh moments where she can use her idea together anywhere. I'm like, all right, that's that's a stretch. But then I sort of like then I was like, now, like Evie, you're dumb because that's just a flaw and V's plan of he had parchment and he's like you did you really think that the parchment is toilet paper? And where did she get a pen? Not discussed nice pen, great handwriting? What was a pencil? Right? Yeah? Maybe either way that was that was funny. Yeah, that was funny. I'm glad we all agree on that. So once she is devoid of fear, she gets let free and then she comes into the room into literally in figuratively she's set free. Yes, And then yeah, that scene where views like it was me and it was like, um, real high level gas lighting. Way to commit to gasoline. Yeah. Again, it's hard because it's like you can look at that one level of like yeah, that's high level psychological abuse. On the other end, if we're looking at like the student teacher relationship in the direst of times, I don't know. I mean, I am sort of left floating in the wind on that one because it worked, it didn't work, it worked, but did the surely there was a better way means, But I mean there's also there's something to be said about I mean, the government killed her whole family, and that is fucked up. And she didn't take it as the government doing it to her. She took it as just like, well, I guess I got to be scared, just like everybody else. So she didn't become stronger after that happened, even though I think she should have. And on the flip, Fee is like, no, I'm going to do this to you to make you stronger, because you are strong. And that's I mean, like I said, you guys can throw anything you want at man to make it work. But I mean, that's the thing, is that going back to that the quote of like people shouldn't be scared of the governments, or government should be scared of our people, because that's that it's a flip on that, you know, it's it's him kind of exposing like you should have changed after your parents were murdered and your brother was murdered. But she got more scared and it shouldn't be because she should know, like, you're gonna die one day, so you should be strong no matter what. And so he just kind of tortured her to be like basically, if you're government, because that's the illusion, right, the government is doing this to her and she finally can stand up to them as before she couldn't, and then of course to find out it's him, it's a total line funk for everybody, right, And we do see her she has an appropriate because she was just like oh good one like right well, And this got me back to thinking about the other kind of popular examples of the captor re educating the captive for whatever reason. And this is again like a movie where in most situations we see a captor holding someone hostage and changing their way of thinking, but usually pretty much for selfish reasons, pretty much for like I want you to love me, so I'm going to keep you in a room until you do. Where this there, it's far more complicated, like and personally, I think that this movie and story would work for me if there wasn't a love story. There is, and that's fine too, but like if this ended up being like the sort of like and these two characters just have like an inseparable, very intense bond that works for me too. But either way, he's not holding her to make her fall in love with him, and I think that that's the most common male cap. You're holding a woman and so I love Beauty and the Beast phantom. Yeah, so it's a similar situation, but the end goal is very different where he's trying to I guess more or less cure her of her own fear. And so in that way, even though it looks similar, the end goal is not really selfish. And then and so it well, I mean it is his revolution that he's trying to start, so it is like a smidge selfish, but also she has every reason to want to be a part of this revolution. She's a good pick based on her. Yeah, it's it's tricky. It's tricky, and I mean when they I mean you see the world that they live in, like, of course you'd want to tear that down and not live in that regime. So the sticks are high, and it does stand a reason why all these characters would want to dismantle this horrible government. So and not to just say like, hey, here's the thing that this movie could have done wrong but didn't, But there's like a lot of I feel like easy bad writing things that could have been in here in terms of like maybe there's another guy that's very common in like these capture situations where there's a guy on the other side who's like fighting to try and find her and save her, and she doesn't have that, like she has whoever mumbly grumbly British police guy that she ends up with is. But he's not trying to help her, right Like, there isn't anyone trying to save her really like and you can even argue V's not really trying to save her as much as get her to where he thinks she needs to be, well, where she wants to be. She says it right, right, but but it's tricky, and I mean he is sneaky about of course have to, right, you kind of have to. It's tricky. You can't just tell someone be stronger, stronger, fight the government. It's you know, to imprison them for a few weeks first, Like but do you have to? That's the question A struggle you can like where it was there another way maybe not, but like he just knew through his experience it worked for him. That was like that's all he has to go on. Yeah, it's true because in some ways that you do see him kind of sculpting her in his vision based on his own past. And again it's like dire times. But I mean he knows how like painful, and you know, like he is actively making that choice to cause someone he cares about pain, and that is something that I don't mean, I don't know, it's open to interpretation. Yeah, because he says something like, um, you don't understand how hard that was for me to do. But every time I saw you resist, like I knew I had to keep going like she was like on the brink, and then he just had to push it a little bit further. It is and it is very gaslighting because he I mean, that's the most elaborate gaslighting we've ever seen. He knows the high kind would have. Who is funding him because he's playing all these different characters. He's got all these different costumes, he's changing his voice around. Who's donating to his Patreon apparently has all those he has all those masks. He has the resources to something. He said something like he clears the tracks and lays more of it. He lays subway tracks ten years. Yeah, like where where is he getting his wealth? That's another weird trope with this setup though, of like the captor somehow has unlimited resources. They always live in a castle. They live something some some subterranean palace, and they're like, I have a lot of money, don't ask. It's gonna look nice. The letting is going to be low. It's gonna be nice. I have a TV, but I also have candles. V's room is kind of a library. She's surrounded by all those books and Belle and beauty. The Beast loved the library. There's a lot of symmetry here. There's a lot. I was gonna say to going back to um, you mentioned that you didn't like that there was like a romance storyline and you could have done without it. So yeah, yeah, h My civil rights lawyer friend when I was like, oh, look, because I think I was had the book or I had the mask or something in my room, and she saw it and she's like, oh, do you like the movie? I was like, oh, I love that movie. I was like, you don't like as a political activist, like you don't like this movie. She was like, it's a good movie. She was like, except for him torturing her, like for love, I have too much experience with that within civil rights organizers. She was like, the men are like that, where like they torture you and torture you, and they're really like of course the men in in you know, activism are sucked up too, But she was like, there's too many parallels in my real life. Was like, you think that these men are like doing the right thing, but you know when it comes to the women, they're not. So when she told me, and she told me this like a few weeks ago, so I was like, I watched it differently a little bit with that in mind, of like, damn, I didn't think about it as torturing for her love, right, you know. And it's yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's super interesting to hear, I mean, and unfortunate that those dynamics exist even in like the most noble of professions. And of course, of course, but they're people are still people. People are still people. People will still be sucking up no matter what they're living is. But yeah, I don't know, Like I think that adding in the love story, like it isn't out of nowhere. It makes sense that you know, like he is at the end of even though he's representing this idea, he is a person. And that's I feel like what the opening and closing lines of this movie speak to where she's like, it's basically the man behind it, like the individual affected. You can't kiss an idea idea, but you can kiss a man and a man it's who I miss, right, which which I was. I was like rolling my eyes a little bit. I don't know. I have kissed an idea before. I've had I've had people kiss me because I'm an idea to them. So that's what that's what's been frustrating. Yeah, oh yeah. And then and then when that wears off and you're like, I'm a person, They're just like, oh, actually cannot cannot exactly if you're a person. I have to like it's like, great, see you exactly. Oh god, I'm gonna have a sesut. Anyways, I did want to mention the Shawshank redemption moment in this movie where she goes out into the rain and she puts her hands up and she's like, also, I'm free, super silly two thousand five c G. I rain shot like a blue just like it was super super silly. It was a great sound effect. It's a little fully you see, you're like the vantage point of the rain falling on sure, great love it. And then he's starting there with his arms folded like fucky, it's raining, it's cool. The love story, it just you know, like you can you can draw the parallel to their very obvious age difference, just based on their discussions of he's clearly significantly older than her and also like, I don't know, those were just like the parts of the movie that interested me the least, where that scene where it's like, I know, we have to and an audience have to be kept in like, oh, but he's also an individual. So that scene where you know, you see the mask be thrown off and he's like, oh, he punches the mirror, right, very fan of the opera punching a mirror peak fit about I don't know. I think I would have enjoyed watching her fun his burned dick. That wasn't what was going, Like, I rod dog and that ship? Are you crazy? I was wondering about some freak nasty ship. That's what I was waiting for the whole time. There's a few different scenes where have like he's rope like like a rope where like in theory, if he had a direction, you'd probably be able to tell can we see that shot? We can't. We can't. We really wanted to see that burned meat that we should watch the Also, this is written by the god who the Matrix and the last the last fight scene was another one where I was like Jesus Christ, where there's a few Matrix shots like a fring and you're just like, okay, called down, we get it. We saw the movie in two thou five. That was the coolest thing I'd ever seen that. But you saw The Matrix and ninety nine it's a little different. But yeah, I remember I was in the theater. I think I sawed this with JT. And we just looked at each other and we're like, this is the best movie I've ever seen. I did a guy once. He goes, what's your favorite movie? I said, for Vendetta, and I sup, what's your first movie? He said The Matrix and I was like, oh, I've never seen it. And he goes, well, just so you know, V for Vendetta is the woman version of the Matrix. And that's what I mean by that. He's a asshole, that's what he meant by that. Yeah, that's like and then yeah, and then I just recently watched The Matrix for the first time and I was like, what that doesn't make this doesn't make sense. But I just dated an asshole like I always do. But that doesn't check out. It doesn't check out at all. It doesn't. And I couldn't argue because I hadn't watched it. Yeah, and I was like, oh my god, like took me down a notch. And I was like, oh no, I'm just another girl. And I was like, oh no, he's just another dickad Yeah. Yeah, Well, if you're listening, funk right off, you're dead wrong. Oh no, he's our biggest fan. Oh um. Can we talk about some of the other female characters, and by that I mean there are very few. One of them is the Corner. Oh yeah, she's a woman in Stem. She has a woman in Stem, and she's the only one of the people that V goes after who shows any sort of like compassion and regret and sorrow for what she did all the other ones and receives the same in return, which I thought was nice, where she does not die the painful death that most she has to die, and like, I get like, she has to die according to the plan, but he kind of cuts her a break where he's like, Jesse, you know, you're basically dead and she's like, oh, that didn't hurt at all, thank you, thank you so much. I'm sorry. I liked that. I thought that was like responsibly. And then the other notable female character is Valerie. She's only ever met in flashbacks, but she's the person who is in the cell next to v whenever he was imprisoned at lark Hill. Yeah, we learned of her story. She is a lesbian. She came out to her parents, they disowned her. She started a career as an actress, she met like the love of her life, and then it was around that time that the government started targeting LGBT people Muslims, basically detaining them for just Trump right, and even prior to that, being that high stake of a situation, she was disowned by her own family and and still was unapologetic about who she was, which is like so cool and also heartbreaking to see the consequences of it. Yeah, totally, But those are like the two main female characters. Besides, and then I was like, oh, why why are there more women in this movie? And then I thought about it and I was like, Okay, well, most of the bo in this movie are either government officials or law enforcement because that's what the story calls for, and none of those people would probably be women because this is a society where they wouldn't hire women design. Yeah, there are certainly opportunities for more speaking female rolled at least, But then when we see those like long montages of like when v is on screen on TV or even when people are watching the Stephen Fries Goofy thing, we see I mean there there's women in homes, there's women and bars are there. They are there's a little girl with the glasses. So they are present in the society. They're just almost never in positions of power, which makes sense with this It's normally that would bother us, I think in a movie, but in this movie, the integral to the story, right, Yeah, there's no Avanka. Trump's the two female characters that we see in detail at least who are not Evy. I feel like almost offer the two paths that Evie could end up on, where it's like the woman who does end up getting pretty high up in government or in her field in medicine, but with the past that's like she was like I thought about killing myself, she changed her name, she tried to flee the country, like she was guilty, guilty, but then also scared, like he was saying, like she succumbed to the fear and then just stopped. I mean, that was the reason she continued to work, because she was like, what else am I gonna do? They're gonna kill me or I'm gonna have to live in anonymity? Um, and why why would she do that? It's also like, of course the women are compassionate most I would say, most women are not not all women hashtag you know what I mean, Like, those women definitely exist when they're attempted with power, but I think more often than not, it's just it's not as common as it is with men in power. Yeah, it was. It was cool to you know, first see that this woman who rose very high in her field but dies with regrets because she didn't stand up for the right thing. And then Valerie who always stands up for the right thing and is punished and basically killed for it. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, it's a great point. I don't think about that. You're so smart. That's my next I know, But I mean, and the moment of silence for a brilliant but they're that scene between v and I'm sorry. What was the doctor's corner? The corner she was a name um Delia surage. That moment between them seemed, I mean, and for V, who's generally pretty violent towards people who sucked with him, was like a good character moment for him too, because you're just like, what was that line where she's just like, is it too late to stay sorry? And he's like, no, he can do. She actually sings that song too late? Is it now to say sorry? That's what goes from my head were to a very different people, kit she just does a quick mash up V like cool, here's a flower goodbye. Yeah. I do like that. I do like that she apologizes, and I do like that he's open to it. I mean, I think people should be, yeah, you know, if you want to, if you're trying to grow and contribute to the greater good of society. And I think he's like giving her a gift there too, where it's like, you know, she's dying with regret, but it's probably when you're dying with all that regret, useful to be able to at least express that to someone who you've wrong. And it's also sweet that he's using her flowers. He's like, I've been growing your flowers. I love your flowers. I think your flowers are great. I think that you were capable of being something better as a botanist. Also her diary that she deliberately gets out and leaves behind so that someone will find it, and luckily it falls in the hands of she wanted me to habit. But he leaves it because he doesn't care. He doesn't care about the story. Um. But then Finch gets ahold of it, and then he he's a party member. He's right under Sutler. But you can tell throughout the movie he's having he's questioning all these things about the government. He's having my favorite movie Doubt. He brings some doubt shout out to Doubt, and then it's honestly the worst podcast I've ever done. No, no, I'm sorry ahead. So um, he gets ahold of it, he learns all this information that I think informs his doubt, and then by the end he's totally on. I mean, he like holds a gun on TV. But then he's like, yeah, you're right, we should go up this building. So like, if I think it weren't for that, he wouldn't be so on the right side of the revolution. Yeah, I mean, I definitely like that. He read it and was like, oh, ship, this is what happened. These fucking fool This government is sucked up, like he's starting to see like he works for the police. But and I do like that because it is possible for people to have the right perspective in these situations if you're informed and if you have even believe But yeah, it was I like that. I like that to change his mind because he was always teetering, right, you know, that's where the curiosity was coming from. It doesn't make sense. Why the funk would this, A, B and C be leading to this? And and then he starts getting these answers and he's like, oh man, and that's why him and Eve end up together because she fucking fills him in. And he was like, oh, yeah, she sucks his dick, but dick, so like, what's the point, right, That's why I always ain't burnt, But he he ain't turned a little T shirt into it for Vendetti's shirt. Just a guy fox, it's a tongue hanging out like all right, he and he have the same outlook. On coincidence, though, where there is no such thing as coincidence, only the illusion of coincidence, which I love that actually going back to there are no coincidences, my dad's funeral being on November five, after the fact, it opened my eyes because it wasn't until my dad passed away that I actually believed that. It wasn't until he passed away that everything kind of led up to him passing away and my life, my life made more sense, not just the future, but also the past. So then when I rewatched the movie, I was like, oh, fuck, it's true for me. And even though I didn't really believe that when I first watched the movie, it definitely changed. And then I was like, yeah, of course his funeral is on November five because there are no coincidences, And for me, it definitely rang true, like even more so now than it did in the past, I think, and I and that almost feels like a more like I don't know, like that seems like a more optimistic because to me, like saying that there is no coincidence just opens everything to there's no order, where I feel like, yeah, we was like vas this anarchist figure, but he also doesn't think that there's no so there is some sort of greater something at work which is nice and and feels optimistic romantic. Yeah, yeah it is. That's a real romance. It's a little hot. I remember seeing the movie for the first time and seeing the kiss, which when she hit the first and I was like, what a weird choice for that to happen. And now I'm like, I get it. I get it. Yeah, now I understand lot of you guys, I don't. I don't. I don't need it, but I get it. But I get it. I mean, listen, I've kissed a lot of dudes are dead inside, so I get like emotionally burned Victyeah, that's what it was like, I've done that. Yeah, I'm into emotional burn victims. Pretty chill. I think that it's it's weird because there is like a lot of gendered stuff in this movie and a lot to talk about, but it's almost overshadowed by the medical nature of this story. And so it was like, I don't know, it was this was like a really interesting, challenging thing to watch, similar to how like when we talked about get Out, it was like not a movie that necessarily treats women well, but that's okay, because what is the real focus of the movie, right, Yeah, So yeah, I have a lot of complicated feelings about be for Vendetta because you know, you can sort of boil things down to like he imprisons her, he tortures her, he gaslights her, dada. But that's a little too simple or simple it is, right, So it is a very interesting movie to discuss so ourselves. Thank you for bringing it to us. It's my it's my pleasure. Let's discuss whether or not it passes the Bechtel test with the it does, does it? It was like, it's sort of there's one exchange where you're like, so, there's right. There is a scene where a woman whose name we don't ever find out, so that right away does not pass the back to test, but she does talk to Evie. Uh. They're watching sort of the news coverage, the fabricated news coverage of the blowing up of the bailey on TV, and she's like, do you believe that load of bullocks? There was no bloody demolition. I saw it. Did you see it? And Evie is like no, last night I was like, She's like, oh, that's right. You went to see Daddy Dietrich, do you like my British taxing? You guys? So they talked about a man like after three lines, and we don't know her name, so that does not pass. But then a woman comes in and she's like, Evie, there you are. You are still working for me, aren't you? Sorry? Patricia, so we know her name, and then Patricia says, I need two espressos and three coffees from downstairs, and Dietrich is ready for his tea. I would say that even though Dietrich comes in at the end those first two lines where I thought I was going to pass and I was looking forward to being like, this is a fun one. But because I didn't remember, I thought that Evie may have written back to Valerie and that would have been like where it wasn't a vocal exchange, that that was like that we've been cool, but she doesn't know. She doesn't where she going to get parchment to wipe her ass with, you know there. So there's another scene right after that where two women talk again. Evie talks to the costume woman and she like brings in all those boxes that have the masks and costume and he's like, what's all that? And he was like, not sure. They've just arrived mock for stage three and costume and he's like, must be pro. So again she brings up a man and then she's like, I wish someone had the balls to tell him the station and just playground. And then she opens a box. She's like, well so this then very British. Real quick question, is Natalie Portman's accent bad or good? I think not very good? Not good? Right? I don't know. There's I sort of kept forgetting because there were points in the movie I'm like, oh, yeah, everyone in this movie is British, including Natalie Portman. I sort of forgot well VA's voice to kind of there are certain points where I'm like, don't just have a thicker accent, which is weird because he is British and it still sounds weird because it's all over the place. Who's who? What's the name of the actor who plays be in this movie? He's like, yeah, he's also in the Matrix Agent Smith. He's a Walkoski fave. Uh So, whether or not the movie passes the Bechdel test, I guess for like a second, whenever Patricia comes in and she's like, you are still working for me, aren't you? And she says, sorry, I want to give it to the I like, technically, I think it's a no, but I want but just for the sake of I don't think that this movie is like bad for womankind. I want to give it a pass. I don't know. This isn't this isn't precise. Yeah, let's just say it does for a split second, which I think is accurate. Does the Bechtel tests have a time some I think some variations of it say like it has to happen for this amount of time. I don't, but don't We just say technically it's too lines of dialogue between two female characters with names, which again is a very low bar, right, And I think under that rule it passes. And it's the third line of dialogue where they start talking about a guy. Right, It's still not great, but I'm going to give the pass. I want to give it a pass. Yeah, I think I think it's okay. I think it it Legit passes under our rules. So you just get five good going. So let's write the movie on our nipple scale, where we write the movie on its portrayal of women on a scale of zero to five nipples. We've got some burnt nipples in the name this time five crispy nipples are very scorched. Um. I'm going to give it. This is real tough for me because I still don't really know how I feel about how he treats her by imprisoning her and gaslighting her and torturing her as a means to end. I mean, free room and board would be nice. True, No, rent a year. I didn't think I was cooking for her to her did her roommate first of all, if she has a roommate, did they just get a sub letter? Like? I don't think she's seemed like she lived in a studio. I feel like shed Okay, that's what it felt like. Oh God, I is it like? Is it a three? I don't know. I have no idea how to write this movie. I was going to say, like four. If I don't know, I mean ultimately an arbitrary system, right, No, this is important. I'll jump thing. I'll say three and a half. Tricky movie where we see a lot of women, we don't hear a lot of women. But that's also the exact nature of the government being portrayed in regards to women. It's tricky. I think that in Evy we have like a really awesome challenging the aughtful. I mean, the few women that are in are all have depth right, right, and they're all given I think, like a fair amount of thought by this story, and they're past and thoughts have action and implications on the story. And I mean I think we have three very strong female characters in this movie, um and too strong gate characters. True. Yeah, very white movie, extremely white, Like they're that last thing where everyone's taking off their masks and it's white people. It's just like especially happen until two thousand and five. I mean, but can the same apply when we were like, oh, women wouldn't be in positions of I feel like a country like this under this sort of regime would have tried to push out people of color are getting pushed out. So I mean, that's what I mean, and I think that's part of why. Like that was the thing when I watched movies and television as I was growing up and as a team, it was like I actively stopped watching things that were too white unless they made sense. And this is one of those movies where I was like, it makes sense and also the women were all very interesting. They were Yeah, I think I think that it's good and I agree with what you're saying of like some of the stuff, some of the dynamics between V and E V are not easy to watch and are subjective in challenging, and I think we'll affect different people in different ways. Yeah, because I mean, I can imagine, you know, if you've been in a really gasl idea abusive relationship and you're watching that, that would be like very triggering. I would imagine. Sure, But in the story, I feel like it does justify itself. I don't know. I'll say three and a half and I'll give my nippies. I'll give two scorched nippies back to v rest in Paradise, Baby, I'll give nipple to Natalie, and then I'll give my lass half nippy to Valerie. She was cool, all right, I'm gonna go with three. And I'm surprised by this because I still love this movie and I and I you know, like I said, I loved it so time ago to the point where I was like I should get a tattoo about it, but not too late. It's a tattoo Parliament. But rewatching it through this sort of new lens, I was like, oh wow, there's a lot of weird stuff that happens to this female character, and it does feel like she doesn't have all that much agency, especially toward the beginning of the movie, and later on she does to the extent where she's the one who literally pulls the trigger on the train that ends up blowing up the house of the Parliament. Super satisfying to watch. Yeah, Oh my god, that was the music and the explosion. I was like, yeah, but um, at the same time, we do have a very complex female character who goes on sort of this incredible arc that women are often aren't afforded in movies. So that was really cool to watch. So yeah, I'm gonna stick with three and my nipples belong to Dietrich Stephen fry To specifically in that scene in the movie. So many like takes with him going what like, he does not have a huge part in that. It's just really funny, It's right, Um, And then they I'll give the other one to Finch because I like his character arc as well. Yeah, Um, I don't know, Actually, I guess I'd have to give a nipple to each woman. Okay three yeah, so three yeah Natalie, Yeah in the corner corner. Yeah, I love that character named the corner. Cool. Well more so, thank you so much for having me said this was like, this was a tough one, in a in a good way. What what discourse we've had here today? I think I think it's an imbordt movie, especially now I encourage people to watch it. I think that not enough people have believed that their governments are corrupt as deeply as they are, and that they can get worse. I mean, it's it's happening to us right now. Um, they've always been corrupt, but this movie is kind of more relevant now than every totally. It's it's I mean for the United States. Yes, it's it's interesting to watch and and I also like that the United States gets a shout out in the beginning of the movie. Yeah, well yeah, we're like the US is having a civil the second Civil War. They call it the former United States, Like yeah, this, which was to me, I was like, oh my god, this is right now. That was like that like newscast segment, because like when it came out, I would have I would have been like, oh, that's silly. That's not possible. And now I'm like, no, that's it's it's on its way. And it was still like w Bush era when this movie came, we were divided like like we are now. I mean that's why United we Stand was so popular because everybody was like, yeah, that is true, we should stand united. Now it's like no division is in right and the like slogan of the UK and the for Vendetta is strength through unity, unity through faith either a lot of buzzwords, no thought being encouraged. Alan Moore is somewhere right now, just like like rubbing his hands together like I told you and you got us, You got us good, You're right me and is not royalties. Yeah, thank you so much again for where people follow you online at Marcella Comedy dot com. That's all of my social media, Marcella two ls. So hit me up, holler at a bitch who You can follow us at bectol cast on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, back to cast dot com. Hey we've got a Patreon. Yeah, donate to that. You can donate to that, you can. It's five dollars a month gets you to bonus episodes a month. And if you're like, actually, I can't commit to that right now, but I still want to help you out. You can throw a tip in our tip jar if you go to beacto cast dot com slash support, you can just like throw us a couple bucks whatever you want. So many options, so many websites. Great, What a time to be alive? What just kidding? We're living in the worst time. What a time to be dead? What a time to look forward to? Shout out to flatliners, Today is a good day to die. Always got to send a shout out, Um, thanks for listening. Bye,