E323- Dogs fighting in the house? Here's what you can do

[SPEAKER_00]: what's going on no bad dog army hope that you're so well if you've ever had a dog that's fighting with another dog in the house this episode is made for you we have a five I think five dogs in the house and we have male and male problems
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: What can you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's realistic?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's fair?
[SPEAKER_00]: What hard decisions do you have to make?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have to make those decisions?
[SPEAKER_00]: All of that is in here and guys are going to be in Australia next month and New Zealand can't wait to see you guys out on the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take a still available link in the description below.
[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy the podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so so for us like what we got going on, we have we have $4 in total.
[SPEAKER_01]: Purebread male, he's intact and the other ones that we have is two labs, the male and female that are seven years old and another German shepherd, female, she's four years old and they're all fixed.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the pup, he's a big boy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's already like 90 some pounds and
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess as he was, like, I don't know, maybe four, five months old, he already started to show aggression, we've had where he's, he's gotten into fights with the male lab, and as we look at it over time, it's been like over food, over toys, Amanda got bit trying
[SPEAKER_01]: trying to break him up as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the lad, he's got scratched up and had to take him to the vet and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we took the dog, his name is Haki.
[SPEAKER_01]: We took him to a trainer and he was there for two weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he came home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And about 20 minutes later, that's when you got into it with the lab because the lab like we used to have it where the dogs had toys and they're not running around like all the other ones we get along well, but with with hectic it's just a whole different story and now probably within the last three weeks or so we've we've it's just been so he's gotten so aggressive to where we had we had to get a muzzle now he has to wear a muzzle when he's.
[SPEAKER_01]: roaming around with the dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they used to all run around and play and stuff and it's just like, dude, what is going on here, man?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's just gone to the point where we even with a muzzle he tries still to go after the male dog, but he has gone after the female dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: a couple of times the female lab dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't necessarily go after the female German shepherd dog, but they both actually share a father.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't have the same mother.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I don't know like how he sees her either as a sister, as a me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure where that is falling in line, but as far as his aggression, it has
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so barely escalated like I hasn't said in the last three weeks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I've been bit by him three times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, and I, you know, just the escalation is really what is worrying us because our lab is, you know, even though he is a male, he is definitely not a fighter.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's, he's more of a lover.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and it's just getting really scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can absolutely see it in him that he is 100% a working dog, like he goes outside and he gets down and he's watching and he's watching the female during the shepherd, because they'll run and play, but he's also staring at the lab.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have your shocker from the, was it, he freaking in the name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know that does, but yeah, but I mean, so we have that and that that actually has helped out a lot like even like with the boost and stuff, but it's just like, man, I don't know what to happen this guy, you know, and we've we've honestly like started to think about rehoming him because it's just.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like he needs he needs a job to do like when he's alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, this guy is a great doc, but he's just still loving like he, you know, he listens.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does well, but it's just when he sees the male.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what's up, bro.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's going to re-home, but not fully scares me because he does not take to other people well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Mike, whereas we're going to re-home him and there's going to be an incident, you know, and, you know, they're going to take him either to.
[SPEAKER_02]: a pound or I just don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, we're really at the end here on the road with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I would say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you're likely dealing with is you're likely just dealing with the dog that is maturing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, because you kind of said that you don't know where this is coming from, this is new, and it is, and you don't, but sometimes dogs sometimes, this isn't an excuse for why this is happening, and it's just could be a reason why this is happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes when dogs mature, you know, between that eight month to 14-month range, depending on the dog, sometimes depending on the breed, they can start to become more aggressive, more protective, more pushy, so on and so forth, the list kind of goes on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the correlation typically when you see stuff like this happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: is the dog hits this maturity and then they're big and bad and protective and boss and everyone else around.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have a couple options.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that it's probably not going to ever stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not realistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anybody could say that that would be realistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I mean by that is is I don't think that he is going to stop wanting to do this type of resource garden and pushy and type of aggressive behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's likely just his personality towards the other dog, especially male on males, they.
[SPEAKER_00]: Historically don't get along, but sometimes they do absolutely especially intact males is what I mean I have an intact male that plays with another giant intact male and that kind of blows my mind But they do so it is it is a Higher likelihood that intact males aren't gonna get along with other males that it's just a fact
[SPEAKER_00]: just because of the the testosterone and the need sometimes to be the bigger batter dog and you just get like you know a bunch of meat heads walking around just bumping into each other and it's just it's just gonna happen so you know so that type of that type of vibe sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so really what you can do in my suggestion would be to kind of make the decision on how you want to proceed with either management of keeping them separate and making sure that you do everything you can to negate any type of fights or conflicts.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing that may or may
[SPEAKER_00]: making sure that you're proofing the house to because it seems like from what you've told me and there could be other incidences that you haven't told me but it seems like every time that they get into it, it's it's due to resource guarding.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Resource guarding is
[SPEAKER_00]: obviously a real thing and the thing that I try to tell people about resource guarding is it it's not a personal thing a lot of times it's usually just this is my food don't don't get near it or this is my resource could be ball sticks toys people even and it's not a personal thing it's it's a very primal actual instinctual thing where the dog isn't actually saying I don't like
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just saying like this is mine and if you try to take it, I'm going to fight you over it period.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I've seen dogs do that, you know, over like brutal, brutal, brutal like fights.
[SPEAKER_00]: And five minutes later, they're absolutely fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of baffles dog owners because they're sitting there shaking their head like, I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just fought this dog and you bit this dog and
[SPEAKER_00]: And in your case, it doesn't sound like you've had severe wounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like you've gone to the vet and you guys have gotten, it sounds like you guys have gotten, the shorten the stick more than the other dog has, the lab.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, and that's common just because you don't have fur and they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you getting grabbed or nicked by a canine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're basically made a glass compared to what dogs are made out of and they're skin and they're fur.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I guess my point is is it really just depends on how you guys want to proceed.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you feel like management is too stressful and not realistic, then finding another home where he is a single dog owner, a handler would be your option, considering he doesn't do well with new people or he's skeptical of new people or whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, we'd have to dive into that a little bit more on what he does with new people and that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's the general scope of something like this is it could, it could very well not be personal to the other dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, hey, I, I don't mind you, it's, it's just, these are things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then you'd have to take up the food that you'd have to create and rotate when they're eating.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd have to remove all toys.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd have to remove all anything that the dogs can possess balls.
[SPEAKER_00]: bones anything that the dogs can possess you would remove and if it is it if it is just resource guarding you'll have a greater chance of reducing any type of fight or conflict you know significantly if you did that but some people aren't willing to do that so it's really up to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've actually done that because when he came back from his other
[SPEAKER_02]: And he has, we have like a plate and type thing where he eats and, you know, it really hasn't thought of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only really affected it's had is it's made the other dogs really sad because they feel like they're constantly in trouble.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so after you guys have done the removal of items, what have they fought over?
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's like, he's like my shadow, he'll follow me everywhere, and so he just doesn't like that, you know, like we're laying on the couch, it's like, oh, it's a whole process, you know, it's like he's got to have his leash on, sometimes I have his muzzle, I want them to lay near each other like not close, like I'm the barrier, but it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to get them to like, hey, everybody be chill.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I see him looking, you know, so I'll be like, you know, I'll deal with my neck or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But most of the time, that's that's exactly what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's guarding me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like even like when we let them out to go run around, he's looking at the male lab like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And now that the melt lab like you can just see it in space like he's he's scared.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like oh shit, you know, and then we come inside and then they used to be able to roam around and go get water and hang out and that's like Hard because we with he goes this play penny does absolutely that resource guarding like this is my it's
[SPEAKER_01]: My little thing nobody else come in here and so the dogs like even the walk pass, you know, it's like walking down a bad street like I'm at a very good the other way, you know, and kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's just this was become now, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be the other option.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is to, is to manage the situation you know, more than you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you have two dogs that are fighting within the house, typically what I suggest for people is to not allow them to be off-leash with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it sucks really because most times dog owners really didn't do anything wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they, they, it's not like your fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just have a dog that doesn't like this particular other dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's just nothing that you can do to really change that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, you can still, there's, there's many people in life that have to create and rotate dogs because they just don't want to give up one of their dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is an option.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just depends on what you want to do, because if you have two dogs that don't, well, if you have one dog or the aggressor, that doesn't like the other dog and we're letting them off leash and giving them the freedom to make decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the other dog is consistently kind of hunting the other dog or on the prowl for the other dog, then you're going to continue to have incidences.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the wrap that it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we really thought that, I mean, we, we love them for sure, but it's like, you know, for him to be at a home that's better, like it's a scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's best, but it's, man, it's hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we, we almost found him a spot yesterday with a border patrol agent that's a canine handler, and then it's a,
[SPEAKER_01]: And he just backed down and it's like we were so happy because like this sounds great and then it's like crap now we're back to square one again, you know, so it's it's been hard because we've been reaching out to all kinds of places and we're definitely not going to put him in the shelter, but it's like Damn, man, what the hell happened here, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and like I said, it's it's it's something that, you know, I don't know your relationship with the dog's breeder, but these are all also breeder things as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having these conversations with your breeder are also really important because they they bred the dog for
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it depends.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's good readers, and then there's bad readers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's, you know, spectrums of both, but like, you have for an example, a breeder, you should be able to reach out to your breeder and to ham, see, and some really, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm seeing some really aggressive behaviors that I didn't intend or didn't sign up for.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have three other dogs and this dog is doing these things and there's a reason why you do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a couple of things would be, are there any other dogs that any other puppies that are doing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I know that the other female you have is from the same kind of lineage from the dad side.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are just questions that you would have to say, hey, this is what's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you suggest?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a good breeder will know their dog's well, know their dispositions, know what's worked in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my dog just had an infection and is neck the other day.
[SPEAKER_00]: My breeder called me, and
[SPEAKER_00]: just was making sure everything was okay and you know we talked for a long time and um... just on other things but he was just saying like you know the breeding thing is so crazy because you know if he he he was just saying if anybody ever had a problem with any of his dogs he would take the dog back no questions asked and refund full of out because he cares about his dog so much not listen not every breeder's gonna do that because most breeder's do it for money the breeder i got my dog from doesn't do it for money they do it because they love the breed
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, these are conversations I would be having as well because a good breeder would also, you know, in my opinion, in my experience with breeders, either help you re-home the dog or even take the dog back until they can re-home the dog, but because, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Second one, um, you know, my husband talked to her and she just sounded like.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, it's your problem not mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, that's that's how it happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of stinks because it's like, well, what do you, you know, because that's why you're, that's why you buy a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's it's literally, you know, like, hey, I'm buying a dog for, you know, this, this, this for the behavior for the temperament for
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if my dog started getting aggressive towards my other dog or, you know, God forbid my kids, their peatment, you know, hey, here's your dog back.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not what I signed up for, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it was kind of deceiving because, you know, like I said, we have the other German Shepherd and she's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like she's, she acts more like a lab than a German Shepherd and, you know, it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so hard because like he's a beautiful dog, you know, he you'd be amazing, but to like, you know, we say kids when we took him to the trainer before at the boarding trainer, he doesn't do good around kids either.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it has to be a home with no dogs and no kids, you know, and when you start looking at those things, they just kind of says those red flags off a little bit more and it really just scare me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so here's here's a couple things is obviously you guys are in a kind of a tough spot because there's a lot of things that there's a lot of variables here.
[SPEAKER_00]: My suggestion would be
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to me, also to like, from other dog owners that I talk to, you have to, like, put it into perspective a little bit that, you know, there's some dog owners that I talk to that the dog is, you know, really, really nasty, and they have, they have several different bites under their arms and under their belt, if you will, and they don't like people, no bite people, blah, blah, blah, and people are trying to do the same thing, excuse
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's really difficult to get along with or really difficult to, excuse me, at home because of these, you know, these reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, my suggestion would be, here's your options, I should say, it'd be easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your options are to continue to look for somebody, which obviously, you know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gratifying somebody that has a single dog home, just that dog that wants a German shepherd and is the good thing as the advantages of this dog is young.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean that's a huge advantage because you can say, hey, I got a young German shepherd that has gone through several rounds of training, but you know, just doesn't get along with one of my other dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a reasonable home defined, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, there's no, you know, big other reasons and things and whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other option would be to do what you're already doing, which would quite literally be management of what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So continuing to keep them separate, continuing to manage the situation even more than you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because right now I still feel like you have
[SPEAKER_00]: You're giving, you're giving a little too much freedom, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if the dogs are out in, like, if the dogs are out together, you know, off leash, like that's too much freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they already have issues with each other, so you would just create and rotate and make sure that you're keeping the dogs separate until, you know, until you can figure out, you know, a better solution for the dog to be re-homed in another, and another home with a with another, there's a single family home.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, those are really your options.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just keep them separated, keep managing them, and then the other option would be to find a home more immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: But really, it sounds like it's un, it's not doable for you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's too stressful, and I don't blame you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is very stressful and it is, you know, potentially dangerous, as you guys know, you've got in a couple couple of nicks and couple of bangs yourself, which isn't fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so anyway, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that that go into, that go into this decision and I know it sucks and I know it's hard, but I think considering what you've told me you have a young German Shepherd that doesn't get along with another mail in the house
[SPEAKER_00]: that is not super unreasonable to find another owner that can understand that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you already found somebody, but they ended up just backing out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it's kind of like, all right, now we start this whole thing over again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, I think the biggest advantages are
[SPEAKER_00]: that you have already put the dog through a little bit of training.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a plus and the dog is young enough to I think people can still, you know, bond with the dog in a way that they feel like it's still like a puppy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you suggest any like, I don't know is there any, I don't know, like websites or something that are decent in that sense because
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, where we're here in Phoenix and so I'm like, German Shepherd, dog rescues.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, there's one intensity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, that's not gonna work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you know, it's just trying to find, we, I got this one thing from our county over here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it, it's got stuff on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I call these places, like, we're all full, when I take any dogs and then it's like, you know, you have behavioral issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, all those are gonna be known as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I don't know, it's almost like if you're fresh out of school, applying for your first job.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of knows, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, it is frustrating.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I wish that,
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that there actually are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish there was more of them, but there are like different services out there that actually take dogs like this and help re-home them for fee.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know exactly the name of them off the top of my head, but they definitely do do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's like I said, I mean you guys are in a good spot in my opinion compared to a lot of other people because
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you guys already have a bunch of dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like, you know, you're like, you kind of understand, like, okay, we got a bunch of dogs and, you know, things unfortunately happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so here's what we need to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to just need to keep these two dogs separated until we can, you know, until we can find somebody right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, it does kind of suck because you're going to reach out to a bunch of people and, you know, as soon as they hear that the dog has gone after you or gone after the other dogs or gone after the other dogs and you got in the way, um, it is more difficult because they want to, you know, they have a shelter full of, they have a rescue group and a shelter full of puppies and other dogs who don't have any issues and they're, you know, so it
[SPEAKER_00]: my suggestion is to probably do what you're already doing, which is be mindful of where they're going and where they're at and just make sure that you keep them separated until you can find some a better home, a better home for the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, do you, I don't even, I don't even, I appreciate it because it's like, we wanted to make
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just like, oh, we just give up, you know, it's like, you know, do the given the best situation that we can, you know, and and to it's like, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's hard to like separate, but, you know, I feel like that's in a way sort of love.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, hey, look, man, I want you to have a really good life that's best for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, I think, you know, one thing I'll say this to, to, to make sure that you, um, uh, kind of have perspective here is I think that,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, when you said, you know, don't give up and it's like, but this isn't this isn't one of those situations that you guys are doing anything wrong or that you guys have a control over you have a dog that
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't like one of your other dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like, you know, like, yeah, I can't get the dog to stop pulling or I can't get the dog to stop reacting towards other dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't get the dog to stop jumping on people.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be more appropriate if you guys were unsuccessful and you said, I don't want to give up because I would say then yeah, you actually are the problem and you just haven't figured out how to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but that's actually not the, that's actually not the case here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just you guys were dealt with the hand of my dog doesn't likely put it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me give you perspective and I hope that this is helpful, but if my dog didn't, if my dog hit two years old and didn't all of a sudden started going after my other dog Like my, I have a, I have a massive and then I have a shepherd
[SPEAKER_00]: if my master of all of a sudden started going after my shepherd and wanted to attack her and blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing as a professional and a professional that specializes is in an expert and the authority figure in behavior modification can do about that outside of what you guys can do about it, which is
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll eliminate and decrease and shut off any opportunity for them to be around each other because I know that he doesn't like her and there's nothing that I can do to change that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to give you guys that perspective and hopeful confidence that.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't something that you can throw money at to fix, because if there was, I would tell you, here, this is how you can fix this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The temperament of the dog, it's like people and they don't like certain foods.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just who you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're genetics.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your DNA.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or whatever or you're intolerant to dairy or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing you could do about that, you know, unfortunately You can use alternatives, but so I just want to do you guys to get perspective on that that don't feel like you're failing And don't feel like you could do more, but you can't because the reality is is even if my own dogs all of a sudden started fighting like crazy
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing I could do about that, because I know that any moment that they have an opportunity to go at it, even though I'm in the room or even though my obedience is really good and my dogs respect me and they love me and I can control them in three different languages if they don't like each other and they have an opportunity to fight they will because they're animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just know that that it's not like you guys are failing or you did anything wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: From what you've told me it's just you're here one intact male German shepherd doesn't like your other male and that that doesn't surprise me by any means and now you guys just have to make the decision whether or not you want to manage this for us their life or do you just continue to be patient and find the right home for your shepherd and that's
[SPEAKER_00]: that's just the facts it's there's unfortunately notes like other dog training again like as you know it's a time by dogs pulling my dog won't come back my dogs reactive you know even if you're dog didn't like other people I would say okay here's how you can manage all that but when you have you have five four five animals living in a household and two of them don't get along
[SPEAKER_00]: You can manage it, place down, stay, leave it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you slip up and you don't shut a crate door or you don't do this or you, it's gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because they don't like each other and there's just nothing that you can do about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just I just wanted to be really clear on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you guys to keep searching for answers and spending money on trainers and stuff to kinda,
[SPEAKER_00]: And what you already have, you know, because you're not, you're just going to be wasting your money in your time because there's nothing you're going to do to change this dog's mind outside of what you've already done.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only other thing I would say is there, there are certain, like, there's certain things that you can do to decrease the likelihood of the dog reacting.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... and and and having an altercation with the other dog is just making sure that you're like so for an example here here is an exercise that i would be doing with you if you said well we just want to know what what should we do if these things happen whatever so for an example it would be uh... you you
[SPEAKER_00]: you bring the dogs around each other and your shepherd then looks at the other male in a way of like hey let's drop the gloves and fight which is what you're seeing right now is you're kind of seeing this like sharking behavior you know like this and any this opportunistic behavior which is very almost like predatory and malicious a little bit
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so so when you see things like this, you know, there's certain things that you can do, hey, leave it heavy correction, don't even think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost make the dog aversive to the other dog where they don't even want to be around the dog, because every time they're around the dog,
[SPEAKER_00]: It sucks for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a very extreme thing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, and I can't really say whether that's going to be appropriate for you guys or not because when you say he's You know, looking at the other dog and whatever, I can't really tell you if he's Being malicious about it or not only you can
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, there are, there's definitely certain things that you can do outside of management and not letting them off leash around each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's definitely things that you can do to decrease the likelihood of reaction, which would be if he turns and looks at the dog in an aggressive manner and he gets corrected really high, I mean that'll, that'll work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's, think about the invisible fence.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog wants to go on the other side of the road to chase the squirrel.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get corrected heavily.
[SPEAKER_00]: They never go near that thing again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, they never cross the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: They never get out of the yard.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something invisible fence works.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of the same thing with the parameters and the behavior of what you're dealing with as if he has the inkling and he's queuing and alerting to you like, hey, I'm about to go after this other dog for no reason, maybe because dad's around.
[SPEAKER_00]: He gets a heavy correction to make sure that he knows that that type of behavior is going to be punished.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe he'll make better decisions in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to change the fact that he's likes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, now we let, you know, and I know that you don't expect that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just being clear, but that's definitely definitely better than just
[SPEAKER_00]: plain zookeeper you know when you when you're managing i would put the shepherd on the leash i would bring him around and if at any point you know because i know that he has the muzzle on but if at any point he does go or he grows or he looks at the other dog he should be getting because you're right now you guys are dealing with i have to get rid of you because you're being a jerk period
[SPEAKER_00]: right so I wouldn't be holding back at all correcting him when he does that type of behavior to discourage it hopefully to a point where he just doesn't do it anymore and this is a classic case of suppression which yeah yeah good um so we do do that um and actually the last time my husband did that he kind of turned and started growing at him because he was
[SPEAKER_02]: he was being corrected, but we can definitely tell you know when he's looking at the lab, you can see it in his eyes.
[SPEAKER_02]: What he's doing and sometimes like I really don't even think like correcting his behavior truly faces him when he's in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when his mind is fixed on,
[SPEAKER_02]: So even getting the German Shepherd fixed at this point wouldn't help the situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody knows, only only doing it will tell you that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is so inconsistent that you just don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just don't know, nobody knows it over and over again.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, oh, I fixed my dog and this thing got better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I fixed my dog, this thing got worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: I fixed my dog and this, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I kind of had a point of resentment with the vet because the lab I did I think he was like four months old and you know we never had any behavior issues with them And with the German shepherd she says no you have to wait until after a year.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we also have that in the back of our mind is like how do we not waited with this with this been a different outcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: mm-hmm and you don't know you just don't know it's it's tough to it's tough to say it's it's very it's tough to say uh it could have been you know you don't know um it could have been but but you know then yeah it's tough because it's like yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, okay, here's here's what I would say is it's, you know, risk overreward here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we fix it dog earlier than their full sexual maturity.
[SPEAKER_00]: We decrease the likelihood of the dog fully.
[SPEAKER_00]: The growth plates opening up the dog fully becoming developed, meaning bones are stronger, bones are bigger, more dense, more thick.
[SPEAKER_00]: and everything else, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is a, that would happen for sure, but then the temperament and behavioral advantages could be, well, yeah, we're going to get him fixed early and he may not physically develop all the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's going to act more like a puppy and less aggressive, which would make him less, you know, potentially, pushy and can can click the with the other dog potentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because it's already gotten to this point, you know, it's, it's, it's really tough to say, you know, at this point, because if you were to ask me, hey Tom, should I fix my intact mail?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, well,
[SPEAKER_00]: But the advantage of keeping an amale intact is what I said before is they fully develop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Physically, so that their bones get more dense.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, for example, my mastiv is intact right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're probably going to fix them at maybe three.
[SPEAKER_00]: It will have that conversation when we get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because he's such a large dog,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want him to, I don't want to stunt his muscle growth because he's going to get heavy and heavy dog needs dense heavy strong bones.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why that's normally why you wouldn't fix and castrated in intact male dog now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's there now there's all sorts of new ways to do this right there's the there's the ability to basically do a vasectomy for dogs and keep their testicles intact Which then could still give them the ability to grow physically and you have all those advantages.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it's getting to a point where it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just getting wild.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, it's definitely worth listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I were you, I would definitely consider that because what's the worst case?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's already to the point where you're trying to rehome him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you do fix him and it gets better, that's a win.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it gets worse, you're in the same boat you're in.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so yeah, I mean, that would be my kind of conversation between you guys, but that would be my perspective on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I mean, it does give us something to think about, but you know, like you said, it's not a sure fix to the issue that we're having.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we also have to take that into consideration.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in our dogs being happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and you, you know, because it's stressful, it's very stressful, and yeah, so yeah, you just have to, you just have to make those, you know, those tough decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know, let me just, you know, hopefully this may be helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, like I said, I'll give you my perspective with my two dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: If my mast of burly started going after my other dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unlawfully.
[SPEAKER_00]: for no reason, he would go back to the reader.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd have no problem saying, hey, he hasn't like my other dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: He matured into this really pushy, protective, kind of mean, dog, and that's unacceptable in my home.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have two young kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: I travel a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm busy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to put that on my other dog, I'm not going to put that on my wife, I'm not going to put that on my family, hey, I'm coming back to Texas, here's your dog back sure, thank you, we'll keep them and maybe we'll keep them for ourselves or maybe we'll we'll re-homem so but yeah, not everybody has a great breeder like that, you know, so unfortunately, but I just want to give you my perspective if my dog were to be doing that, even if I didn't have a good breeder.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would still go to social media and say, hey, my dog's not getting along with Lakota.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's fully trained, who wants to adopt him, you know, who wants to take him into their home.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to protect you to the day he dies, but he just doesn't like other dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's really obedient and I'll support you in training throughout the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: Done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tard, you know, it's difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it's going to, it would be easy for me to do, and I'm not saying I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have to look out for, you know, the other dogs, your family, your quality of life and, you know, your stress levels every day of playing zookeeper and if, you know, if the tiger gets out of the cage, what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, that is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is, like you said, it's extremely stressful on us, just, you know, as human beings being married, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: to constantly on edge because we don't know what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no doubt.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no question.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely hard and it sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But your options are pretty pretty straightforward.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's find the right home until then.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to run them in the morning by himself and exhaust them.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... and then uh... after that what we're gonna do is uh... you know we're gonna continue to look for home and and it's my suggestion would be just the more that you guys do like you know training with them and the more obedient he is and because people like that okay here's what like that i would be doing and that would be like the advantage of me re-home in my dog if i ever got prepared needed to as i would say hey this dog is
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, got $20,000 with the obedience on them, you know, so I would be reaching back out to your trainers to say, hey, you know that we tried to we tried to change all this in the household.
[SPEAKER_00]: We understand that that's not going to happen and what we're really looking for is advanced obedience with this dog to give him a better chance to get adopted.
[SPEAKER_00]: you post in Facebook, you're dog-downing as they're running after a ball and recalling when there's, you know, off leash or your e-collar work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that is, people kind of like turn key, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a turn key dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They go, you know, I just put down my German Shepherd last year or last month or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: They say, okay, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, here's a turn key dog for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just can't have another dog in the home and you know what, maybe they
[SPEAKER_00]: to see what he's doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: My male if I had another male he wouldn't sell to me no matter what so yeah, I'm just letting you know how real Male on male stuff can be and I know sometimes you get lucky and you guys have your whole life probably with dogs And we've always had nice friendly dogs no issues and and again like
[SPEAKER_00]: But blows my mind, but my intact giant dog will play with another intact giant new foul one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make any sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like it's not on paper setting stone that that's a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, it is it is more likely that that's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't surprise me, you know, that this is happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you have to say, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, pull it back and just say, okay, we're going to work on training, we're going to separate the dog and we're just going to find a new home for the dog and that's that's the goal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I think, I mean, I think, I mean, obviously we already knew that, but I really thank you for helping us solidify, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it helps to hear it from someone else that we weren't doing anything wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, no, no problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know it sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it does, it's like, you know, I don't want you guys to feel like you failed because you just didn't, and again, I'm a professional.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I specialize in behavior modification.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if my dog started to not get along,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to put that on my family or my other dog or my in-laws when I go to Australia for two months to train dogs, like, no, hey, somebody else needs to take this and just to be clear, it's like the caveat to all this is if it is something that is human error, if it is something that you can fix, you should, but this isn't something that you guys can fix or change, this is your dog's temperament, he doesn't like this other male in the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you can suppress it all you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can manage it all you want and a lot of people just do that because that's all they can do or you can re-home the dog and just move on, you know, unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's, that's, everybody be happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, happy here for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you Tom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yes, it's huge help.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really cool talking to you too, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're welcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're kind of a legend in this house now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Legendary figure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm honored.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys you guys take care and and good luck and you know I always tell people who are dealing with these situations to just really you know figuratively and actually Physically speaking just take a deep breath and just say okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the end of the world We're gonna keep the dog separate going to create one
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're going to, you know, all the other dogs can get along, but if you're not going to play nice then you're not going to be around the other dogs and that's that's the end of the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just what you have to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just going to it's going to be changed for you and your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, it's really not it's not difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's not like rocket science.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not it's just keeping these two separate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can find something else.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you sir.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: We really appreciate your time and we will go with these next steps.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good luck.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take care.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a good weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye.