Back to Biz with Katie and Boz: The mom of mom influencers Christine

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Sign up on the web for for your download in the up stores Ato dot ai. That's O T T E R dot ai. All right, y'all, Hello, Hello, Hello again. I'm Bozma st John and this is back to biz with Katie and Bose and my co host Katie Current is still out. She is finishing up her book and she'll be back next week. I promise this time she'll really be back. It won't just be me by myself. I promise. But this week, this week, we have something so special and Juice say, it's a very sensitive topic and a personal one. Parenting. It's it's an industry like any other that we've discussed on this podcast, but it is essential to running this country, and it's never gotten the resources, time, respect, or attention that it's needed in order to succeed, you know what I mean. Like, we talked about bailouts all the time, but where's the parenting bailout? Right? I mean, I think I need one. The pandemic has thrown working parents and to them possible situations, and we often wonder will we survive it? I mean, I don't even know if I was able to survive fifth grade math, and now we're head into sixth grade and I don't know what that's going to be like. But if we come out of this, will we come out of it with a better work life balance? I don't know. Well, we're gonna We're gonna talk about it. Today, we have a very special guest, Christine Michelle Carter, who is going to help me suss out all of these topics, all of these questions, and hopefully give us the light to lead us in the right direction. So welcome Christine, Thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. I am so thrilled to be on the podcast. Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. Because you know this is this is a big topic. There are so many challenges that we've been facing. Um and although there have been many jokes made about parenting in the time of COVID, it is not a joke. It really isn't. So you are a tier your public speaker, your marketing strategist. Girl. You got a lot of titles, but you've also built a career out of advocating for working moms and black women. Hello, So, so can you tell us a little bit about that? How did you become such a prominent voice for working moms? So you forgot one of my titles, which is Chicken Little because I ran around telling everybody that the work life balanced sky was falling years ago, and people accused me of being unreasonably afraid and dismissed me. But now people are saying, you know what, Christine, the sky is falling. It's crazy because I've been writing about the housework gap and the challenges that working mother's face for the past five years. UM. I started writing about it UM when I ended up having to pump in the bathroom stall after I gave birth to my daughter, and I just thought it was absolutely ridiculous. I had no idea what it meant to be a working mom until I became one, and I think if you learned at that point, it's too late. I've been right about the recession two years ago, and I knew that there was gonna be an event that was gonna shift the sustainability of our so called work life balance, and that event was COVID. You know, the world is exposed to the fact now that even in mary two income households, unlike mine, women are three times more likely to be the spouse who carries the additional burden of the mental load of just everything that's going on. And you know, it costs uh sixteen thousand dollars in lost wages, and for every dollar a man makes, we make just seventy one sense. And you know, men, even when we work remote, they're more likely in the same situation and the same job to make a hundred thousand dollars or more, three times more likely in fact, than us. And this is stuff that I've been writing about for years. So it's it's crazy to me that all of a sudden the world is listening when I have been crying out for so many working mothers for so long. Yes, yes, yes, yes, well, I mean I'm so of course impressed by your uh predictive accounting what was coming. I'm like, you got any other tips to give us, um, And I'm sure we'll get to that. But it is very difficult, especially because we are, um no longer saddled with distractions, right that are outside of our homes, um, and we are bringing the things that used to be outside inside and so of course that's a big stress, you know, on relationships, on parenting, et cetera. UM, what are some of the struggles that that you're facing. You have two kids, right, eight year old Maya and five year old West. I have an eleven year old daughter, Leel and being a single working mom with a child of course of school ages a difficult, difficult thing, um. But as you said, you know you have certainly faced some challenges that you had to make really difficult decisions. Is about in order to get to a place of peace. Can you talk though about some of those challenges and struggles that you faced and some depth that would allow for us to get a better sense of, uh, what you were actually dealing with and then how how you came out of it. So I guess I'm grateful that I went through a divorce because I was preparing my children on how to handle traumatic events prior to COVID even happening. So as a single mother, I had to have very honest and transparent conversations about my children when it came to work. They understand that if my office door is closed, you better be dying or bleeding and then you can come in. Um again, very frank and candid. And I find that with mothers that we do so much and we try so hard to protect our children and shield them for the world and just make sure that we are the barrier between them and anything negative, that it's an emotional strain on us and it also doesn't prepare our children for the real world. So in exposing my children to the fact that Yes, your father has an alcohol problem, he has depression. Your mother is a single mom. Sometimes she has to work, sometimes she has to travel for work. Exposing them to the realities of their world makes them more well rounded and balanced children who can adapt to change, versus trying to shield them from everything. I feel like we're at a point now where COVID has just exposed our world, our personal and our professional worlds. Everything is out of whack. We're constantly disrupted, and it requires us to shift our thinking. If you have were already having very honest and transparent conversations with your children or even with your employer as a working mom, then you're probably the ones who are thriving. Those who were trying to be that barrier for their children or hide their authentic cells at work as a mother, those are the ones who are struggling. Yes, okay, we're gonna put a real quick pin in that employer relationship. You know. One of the biggest challenges I faced as a single parent my my husband passed away from cancer about seven years ago, and um in that in that trauma, I had to find ways to ask for help. I was so used to doing everything myself, you know, strong black woman over here. Hello. I was so used to going and trying to succeed, and you know you don't you don't ask for help because that's just a sign of weakness, right, And so how and if, if, maybe do you ask for help? And how do you do it in your life even now? Because it's like people can't come inside, right, So how are you getting help? What happens? Tons of people can't come inside, but some can. And it's so interesting. Many women actually have cited that COVID reminds them of past trauma. And for me, it definitely reminded me of what it meant to separate from my husband and how I tried to blow through it full steam of head, strong black woman like you just said, and how I really suffered. It's it's funny because many moms are feeling like they're not important anywhere right now, and it's accelerated burnout. It's that whole emotional and physical and mental exhaustion from just having excessive and prolonged stress. And I find that, you know, when I hit that moment, I'm very aware of when I'm about to reach it. Some women may not be, but it's you have to recognize it and then be real about your bandwidth. And you know you're not a superwoman. You have to think about what really drives you and really inspires you and prioritize. And I know that for me, whenever I have trouble focusing on daily activities, or my anxiety is starting to make me feel out of control, or I just can't manage my emotions, then I have to take a step back and lean on my tribe. And that could be just getting emotional support through social media. You're right, people don't have to be in my house, or I can rely on a couple a handful of people to actually come and help me and give me a relief. And that would be my aunt and my my brother and my mom. M gosh, yes, he really do need to ask for help, um, because burnout is real, it is even And that's the thing though, is that, like, how do you recognize that it's coming? You just said that you know it's coming. How do you know it's coming. I know it's coming because if I can't focus on my day to day work, even like the simplest things, and if my anxiety is literally starting to make my hands shake, and I have to sit down because I'm just like so frantic. That's how I know I'm about to hit burnout. Professionally, I've always known that burnout is the third stage of um the first stage being imposter syndrome, the second stage being summit syndrome. And then when I hit burnout, I know that, you know, it's like the point of no return. But it took me a really long time to to understand those those different tiers and what it meant for myself. Go through those steps. Please, Yeah, so there's no problem because because we need the steps. You know, I need a map, Okay, these are the steps to burn out. So so, imposter syndrome is just that feeling like you don't belong and for me, I would constantly feel that as a black woman who's successful in the workplace, I'm also a millennial. I always felt like I didn't belong in the room. So to combat that, before I hit step two, I used to keep a list of my accomplishments and didn't feel bad about advocating for myself in the workplace, reminding myself everybody about my accomplishments. Because we all know that performance reviews don't matter. It's about what you do that day that really matters. Um But if if I let my imposter syndrome get out of control, then I knew I was getting Summit syndrome, which was that feeling of chasing an unattainable corporate high. So just trying to get as many accolades and rewards, and you know, team hustle and team do it all the most. And like, I look at this week and I've shot a Walmart commercial, I'm talking to you, I got a promotion at work, Like I'm in Summit syndrome hardcore. So I'm gonna use this weekend to make sure I don't hit burnout. And burnout is really that state where you know, it's the mental exhaustion and the physical exhaustion of all of that stress and trying to chase those highs and trying to feel like you belong. I think we can end the podcast on that, because I mean, I don't I don't think there's anywhere else to go. We're gonna take a quick break. But when we come back, the hot topic issue schools to go back or not to go back? Now, that is the question whether your event needed one room or an entire conference center. Hoppin has revolutionized the way people come together. With hoppin, you can host a fully fledged digital meet up, complete with one on one meetings, hands on sessions, and expo booths. 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You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows and Christine and I have so much get into about working moms in the workplace. And I have my own stories on this. I mean I share one with Christine about after I gave birth to Lael and I was a new mom returning back to the office and the advice I got so let's go there. When I had first had my daughter, I was so proud of her, you know, and she was so cute biased Hello, she's the cutest, uh. And I was working at PEPSI at the time, and you know, pretty successful, you know, getting promotions and all of that. Hot shot I felt like, and I put my picture of my daughter proudly on my desk, and well meaning colleague came and told me that I should take her picture down because people wouldn't take me seriously and they would think that my priorities had shifted. And so I didn't want that if I wanted to continue to accelerate. Now throw in this situation in where you may have, of course, your kids are running around. Like you said, you shut your office during your kids know not to come in there. But there are things that happened and they disrupt the day, and they disrupt meetings, and you know, you're thinking about dinner or you're thinking about the homework that you couldn't complete and all of those things. How how how how do you even open your mouth to say anything to your employer? And how do you do it? What do you say in order to remain feeling in control and at some point that guests trying to get empathy for where you are. Yeah, so first let's just take a moment. I have to, as a young black mom, thank you. I'm in consumer goods, so I want to thank you for paving the way because that is a very traditional industry. And if it wasn't for women like you being authentic and bringing your whole self to work and hanging up pictures of your you know, two pounder like me, you're Nikki baby, then it wouldn't There wouldn't be room for me to be having these conversations with my employer, with other women to be able to have the conversations with their employer. But um, I definitely think that if employers want the best versions of their employees, then it's time to walk the walk that because you've been talking the talk for so long. There are so many moms right now who are feeling out of balance and disadvantaged and stressed, and all of that is normal. We're going through a pandemic. We were already at a disadvantage as working moms before COVID, and as we lose the world that we knew, it's natural to feel anger and fear and anxiety and loss. We are we're not remote working. We're trying to work in parent during a crisis, and it's a lot, and it's normal for us to be triggered and to parallel that to grief and to feel like we're bargaining or field denial or sadness, all of the emotions that go through grief. So instead of spending our wheels trying to handle that kind of grief internally or worrying about obligations we know we'll never get to or won't remember, we need to let others in the workplace know that we need help, you know. We we need to let our partners know that we have to put them in charge of two dues. We have to take advantage of technology, using things like Zoommen, using um digital workspaces with colleagues, and we have to stop feeling guilty that we're not superwomen. UM. I think a big thing is we need to understand the value of buffer space and communicating buffer space to our employers. So it's one thing to say I gotta go feed my kids. I'll be right back, but you won't be right back because you need to take the time to prep. You need to take the time to make sure the kids are eating. You need to decompress from that and then get back into work. And and we seem to not value buffer space UM and communicating the importance of that to employers, because booking meetings back to back is draining, especially if their conference call, so you know, jumping from work immediately into helping kids is draining to we we have to take advantage of that, take advantage of employee assistance programs, make sure that our employers are walking the walk, and we have to use our time off um. And that is something that a lot of working mothers are very afraid to do, very afraid to bring their authentic selves to the workplace and say I need to take time off, I need to take a mental break, but um, if you'll allow me just one more minute. There's a vicious cycle that people aren't aware of that occurs in the workplace. So what ends up happening is moms get anxious about appearing uncommitted to their jobs, so they and other caregivers opt out of taking advantage of employee benefits. What happens is that leads employers to think that moms and caregivers are fine and can manage, and then that makes them feel that they don't need to invest in caregiving benefits or sometimes even track data associated with caregiving. So then that lack of data leads to no changes in policy to support caregivers. So what ends up happening to moms and caregivers They feel unsupported by employers, and then they struggle to keep up with performance, and then that decline and performance leads to stigmas and biases for other caregivers. So I can't stress it enough that that cycle breaks if you're burned out and you take advantage of those corporate benefits, because it not only benefits you and the men your mental health and the long term UM, but it also serves as a signal to employers that you're under strain, and other caregivers in the office might be too the kind of notes that I'm taking. Okay, we've learned about impostor syndrome, syndrome and burnout, and now we're talking about the vicious cycle of benefits I mean, okay, so switching gears a little bit. Right. Um, we're still talking about parenting in the age of COVID, So let's talk about school and going back to school. Because that's a hot topic. I got the survey from my daughter school that asked me, right how comfortable I would feel if she went back in person? Um, you know, do I trust that they would have the you know, ability to make the school safe? Do I want online learning? Oh my goodness, this survey. It gave me anxiety just looking at the survey. You know. But the American Academy of Pediatrics just release a statement in July saying that students are should be physically present in school as much as possible in the fall. Um, but there are many people who don't want to do that, you know, who are really really worried about their kids, uh, not just going to school. But then on the other side, they're scared if they don't go to school, they'll have an academic, social, and emotional learning issues. Like there's so many challenges. What is your thought about about this particular issue on returning to school, to go back or not to go back? What do you think? And what's happening where you are? So and let me tell you something. I've got a lot of thoughts on this. Okay, So, so you know, teachers and the unions are pushing back against plans to open the schools, and it's causing tensions with the parents and the lawmakers. And there are some early predictions about what school is gonna look like in the fall, but they're just that because the classroom sizes are on a much smaller scale at the summer school level, and it doesn't include the regular volume of students. And then there's talks of parents hoping to share teaching among parents. I know a woman who's turning her basement into a homeschooling center and creating homeschooling pods and hiring teachers. And yes, that is a schooling option that feels safe, but it and it allows kids to have fun and and it builds social schools, and it offers parents a break, but they're pricey, and it's a privilege, and it's complicated, and it comes with its own homeschooling laws, and it's going to cause educational inequity. And that's just at the school level. What really grinds my gears is childcare. And you know, as I'm I'm out of the childcare realm right now, I have a fourth grader and a kindergartener. But the state and local officials in these schools and Congress needs to know that we need a robust plan for childcare. It's got to be a part of the plan to reopen schools because childcare is the second largest monthly expense for families after their mortgage or rent. In some instances it's as much. And there are states that have shown that they lose about a billion dollars annually and economic activity because of childcare because there is no childcare, adequate childcare available. I'm in one of those states. I'm in Maryland. Childcare is it plays a critical role in people's ability to work UM. Lower income households right now don't have the economic resources to afford high quality childcare UM. According to Paid Leave for the U S, which is an organization I support, paid Family and medical leave is paid time away from work or for welcoming a new child, can for a family member, or caring for your own medical crisis without the fear of losing your job. And right now, the US is the only industrialized country without a policy, which means that one in four moms are gonna go back to work in the fall within ten days of giving birth. It means that people of color and low wage working people are more likely to need access to paid leave, but the least likely to have it, they're the ones of their essential employees. And then the pandemic that looks like the grocery so for employees that we need, the delivery drivers, the health care workers not having any paid leave to take care of themselves, their kids or family member, and that's just it's danger is and it's wrong. Gosh, well, let's do let's dig a little deeper into that piece, because you just brought up such an important point about, of course, disparity. It's not a new topic to us. We've we've been talking about this a long time and obviously it's not just even COVID, but we see of course the newly awakened racial and social unrest um challenges that we see in the disparity of how COVID is affecting brown and black communities. Can you talk a little bit about that and about how uh this time and even education and taking care of our kids is disproportionately affecting communities of color. I wrote an article for Forbes and Partnership. I found a stat with lean In and basically they were looking at data around childcare and I wanted to break it out further, and I found that black women during the pandemic spend half a day more on childcare per week than white women. So if you put that into perspective, I believe you're in California, right. So since California stay at home orders went into effect on March nineteen, to date, black women in that state have spent nearly two hundred and thirty hours more on childcare, just on childcare than they're white counterparts. Yeah, yeah, and you know, and it's we're not crazy. The pandemic is hitting black moms harder. We're more likely to be at risk from a medical perspective, more were more likely the women without children to show signs of emotional, physical, cognitive, and behavioral stress in the workplace anyway, including insomnia and heart problems. Were more likely to be single moms, and the absence and lack of involvement from our child's father contributes to the decline of our health. So we were already disproportionately affected before there was even a conversation about COVID or going back to school. We spend nearly three times more hours per week caring for our elderly or sick relatives. We of in multigenerational homes. So it's it's very difficult to be a black mom right now and going through this and then thinking about how do I go to work and have my child be in school. It's it's very dangerous. It's it's worrisome, and I think that we're living through a public health crisis and we need to ensure that most of our women have paid sick days and paid leave to actually keep the schools in public spaces safe. I mean, we can't reopen without protections. It's paid leave isn't just a benefit. It's a need for Black women. It's a need for all women, and for families and for teachers. And if schools open, teachers need paid lead to keep themselves and their students safe. And parents need it not just to welcome new children, but to also make sure that the older kids are healthy and safe and able to learn when we come back. Child care isn't a personal issue, it's a public issue. More with Christine Michelle Carter and just a moment, the moment you realized you were mistaking your kids for co workers. Okay, team, I'm taking my fifteen now, what was the moment you knew it was time to get back to work. Let's job it up at career Builder are simple, customizable search tool lets you search for part time, full time, and even work from home jobs so you can find a job that fits your lifestyle. Get started now at career builder dot com. Still living in manually taking notes start the new year with auto dot ai to generate automatic notes for meetings, interviews, or lectures. With auto dot ai, you can search the meeting notes, insert images, playback the audio, and share them with your friends or co workers. You can capture action items, remember meeting details, and keep everyone informed. Auto dot ai works for in person or virtual meetings like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, and Google Meet. Sign up for free at auto dit ai or download the app for free auto dot Ai. That's O T T E R dot Ai. You're listening to Back to Biz with Kay and Bows, and we're talking about all the inequities and the disparities of being a black or a brown mom. Right now. My question for Christine is how can we give these moms a break? So here's the gag. I read about this a while ago. If you fix childcare and provide access to high quality childcare, it advances progress on racial and economic equity, and people really don't realize that. So once employers, once non government companies like public and private sector, recognize the fact that childcare is an economic development opportunity and it actually costs state millions of dollars and and and lost income and lost economic stimulus to their area, then we will solve it. But right now, people think of childcare as a personal issue. Oh, that's that woman's problem, she's a mom, and not a community issue. So we need to treat childcare like we treat public school and healthcare, like an essential service that is affordable and accessible for everybody, and it needs to address the short term economic threat that we're facing with COVID, but then also a more sustainable business model for the childcare operators because right now they don't know if their employers are coming back, and it's costly to operate to it's a high demand and a low supply. So once we treat that like it is a public issue and it's an economic development opportunity, will then see a little bit more racial and economic equity. Right, So then what are the effects after the pandemic? Right, So, if we are advocating for this change in UM, not just policy, but responsibility of non governmental businesses and organizations. How do we actually continue that conversation after we're not talking a lot about after the pandemic. You know, people you say going back to normal, and we realize now that that's that's not a possibility, and we actually don't want it to be right because a lot of what we're facing we recognize as needs to change a system, this being a very big one. But then what happens? So how how do you see this actually coming into effect? And then how is our world different because of it? So I can see two different scenarios happen. You know, we get the paid leave and the medical leave for families, and life just changes overnight like that for so many different and disproportionately affected groups within our country. UM I see it happening as benefits happened within organizations, but on a larger scale where people are reluctant to take the support or they are viewed negatively for taking the support. But there are so many organizations who have been fighting this fight even pre COVID, like mom Congress and paid leave for the US and you know Senators and the Maternal Care Act and the Cares Act, there's so many different initiatives a Tina Lawson's act Um that I wrote about for for so many different that are trying to support providing equity and fair solutions for folks who do have children or or folks who are um the minority, which we know is actually the majority majority right now. But so that would be the positive scenario. But I actually am a big believer in history repeating itself, and to me, the worst case scenario, which is if we don't act, we could be faced with a repeat of World War two. Post World War two, where men returned from combat and women turned to the home. After the surge of women in the workforce in twenty that could look like women struggling to find childcare being forced out of the workforce. New rules for child care centers to reduce the number of children per group were already there. Um, we know that there's a There was a about one fifth of parents who planned on having a nanny and turned out that only three percent were able to make it a reality because of the supply and the demand. We know that twenty three million working parents have no access to a childcare provider. So you know it's a dangerous situation, and it's very it's very likely that women could be put back into the person post World War two area where they pushed out of the workforce. Um, which is extremely dangerous because a quarter of all children in the US live with a single parent, higher than anywhere else in the world. And not only are we single parents, but again we're caring for family and friends. So that's worst case scenario. God forbid that happens. I'm hoping for the change like that, that happens overnight, that so many different nonprofits have been advocating for, and I'm prepared for. Yeah, oh my goodness. Well you you certainly, um you said the word in their hope. You know, I am, I'm an optimist. You look at an optimist as well. I mean, you're you're laying out the facts, but all the facts are leading to a better future hopefully. Um. So really, let's let's get to that. What gives you hope? Because we have been talking so much about the challenges that we are facing as parents, the greater challenges faced as single parents, the greater greater challenge face because we are black moms. We're saying the parents. But what gives you hope? Like what gives you hope right now? Gosh, what's giving me hope right now is the level of empathy has skyrocketed from I'm sure if you did a year over year chart, it would just be exponential. The fact that, you know, it's unfortunate that colleagues have said that Black Lives Matter started this year, because we know it didn't. And we know what it's like to go to the workplace in and watch Philando Castile get murdered in front of his child and have to continue working and not get any type of empathy from our employers or our team members, but to see, you know, God rest his soul, George Floyd did not die in vain. Because the the just the current state of empathy towards black women in the workplace, and the I see you, and I'm going to become an ally and I'm gonna pass the baton and give you an opportunity to elevate your voice on a mainstream level like share the mic. Now I participated in that that that's unprecedented, you know. And and then I think that COVID, had COVID not happened and caused us to remember what it's like to be humans, first, and to show empathy and and show a bit of humanity for I fellow man, I don't think that there would have ever been such an acceleration in the Black Lives Matter movement. So I don't think that he died in Vain. I don't like to think that anybody who is suffering with COVID right now, or who has passed from COVID, died in Vain. There has been tremendous strides in humanity, especially in America right now, and I'm very thankful for that. That was Christine Michelle Carter. You can check out her book Mom a f and keep up with all she's doing on Instagram. And that does it for this week's episode of Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. You can also follow Katie and I on Instagram check out our favorite moments from these episodes and all that we're doing. And there's tons of other episodes of Back to Biz to catch up on. So if you haven't done already, go ahead and binge. Go find us on Apple Podcast, the I Heart Radio app, and wherever you can listen to your favorite shows. Katie's back next week, but until then, I'm Bozma st John and This is Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. Thanks so much for listening. Back to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media. The executive producers are Katie Currik, Bozma St John, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derrek Clements and Lauren Hansen. Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode, go to Katie Kirk dot com. You can also follow Katie Kurrik and Bozma St John on Twitter and Instagram. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Did you know Amazon provides ways of working that fit your lifestyle. They know you value your time outside of work, juggling families, school, friends, or other activities. That's why they offer a variety of shifts that work for you. There are full time, part time, and even temporary opportunities that can work with your schedule with great starting pay and sign on bonuses. 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