From Runway to Reality Check: The ANTM Exposé (w. Cycle 2 winner Yoanna Margaret)

Transcript

00:00:06 Speaker 1: Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote, I'm Melissa Malbranch. Today we're going to be talking about whether or not you should put your carse in the dishwasher you should not, about all the cleaning ladies who are also camgirls, Pablo Escobar, Zoo Animals, Punch the Monkey, Black Market, Needos, an interview with Joanna from America's Next Time Model Cycle to the Winner, about the new documentary on Netflix and E News, and all your questions from our dms. Just a quick shout out if you want to please watch us on YouTube. It's a great place to check out the show. You can see all the bronze I'm wearing that week, and if you like the show, like the videos, get online. I finally made social media pages for this podcast, so it really is me behind them posting every. 00:00:51 Speaker 2: Day, So it's not me. 00:00:54 Speaker 1: We can afford like a guy who does that for us, so it is me. So subscribe to Brief Recess on our YouTube channel and check out those videos and feel free to the comments. We really are reading the comments, so check it out. Use the same ten. 00:01:09 Speaker 3: Everything tends to steal pens. 00:01:11 Speaker 1: But you did. You almost gave me the Haitian mother. Look. Melissa does this face when she's about well, it's not it's not. It's her imitation of her mother, by the way, who my mom. 00:01:23 Speaker 4: I grew up in a household where you got your ass beat And when she would get mad and she was about to hit me, if she was sitting, she would always wait, I'm gonna do it for you. 00:01:36 Speaker 2: That's her bending down. 00:01:37 Speaker 1: To slowly bending down with this look like. 00:01:39 Speaker 2: With the eye contact, about. 00:01:41 Speaker 1: To whip a sandal at you. A slipper, it. 00:01:45 Speaker 4: Was, it was always a slipper. They were called batta and uh. They were like leather at the bottom and the top and the and the the song part of it was they came in like multiple colors, and the ones that my mom used to beat my ass with were orange. 00:01:59 Speaker 1: Whatever I say something crazy, Melissa gives me the look you're just about to beat me with. 00:02:05 Speaker 2: The slipper grass. 00:02:07 Speaker 1: I know that look. I know I'm in trouble. Let's get into a sidebar. Let's talk about what's going on. What's happening this week in our life? 00:02:15 Speaker 2: So many things. 00:02:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I said something earlier, because something's going on in the lighting in this studio, and I just have to speak to it because every time we come to the studio they have a different lighting setup. And it's almost as if I looked hideous the week before, is how I perceive it. I'm like, oh wow, it was so bad last week that we actually we flew in a specialist from Canada who created this new light fixture. I kind of finally know how to light. 00:02:43 Speaker 4: You are so self absorbed, so it's all about you at all times. 00:02:49 Speaker 2: And you know what the other thing is? Do you think? 00:02:53 Speaker 4: Do you imagine? Because I say this to Andre all the time. When I tell him to wear something something, He's like, no, I'll look dumb. In what world does it make sense for me to tell are to wear something that he's gonna look stupid? 00:03:06 Speaker 2: At ye? 00:03:07 Speaker 4: In what world does it make sense that I let you go out look. 00:03:10 Speaker 1: Like a nut job? That's true, that's true? 00:03:13 Speaker 2: Right? Would you let me look? And now I feel like, would you let me look crazy? 00:03:16 Speaker 4: No? 00:03:17 Speaker 1: What? Never? 00:03:19 Speaker 5: Yeah? 00:03:20 Speaker 1: Okay? 00:03:21 Speaker 6: Chance? 00:03:23 Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I tell you. 00:03:29 Speaker 2: We have to reset. 00:03:30 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I am paranoid, but not sometimes the paranoid is right like a broken clock is right twice a day. 00:03:38 Speaker 2: I'm afraid for you. 00:03:40 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get Bronzer on the mic. We're okay. 00:03:46 Speaker 2: So if you notice the lighting is different because started throwing things around, I threw and now a lighting. But again, can you imagine. 00:04:02 Speaker 1: You are one of the few friends who's not like, oh my god, I do look great and I look hideous. You will be like take that off right now, yeah, or you'll be like, we got a you've got something on your face? What's that in your teeth? Be that friend, Be that friend for someone, and at least have one person in your life who can do no. 00:04:20 Speaker 4: I mean honestly, like, especially we do stuff together, and I wouldn't. 00:04:25 Speaker 2: I don't even think I'd be able to look. 00:04:27 Speaker 4: At you and not mention the thing that's not right. But like, that's a big black schmutz on your ear. 00:04:32 Speaker 1: You don't have a poker face. Every thought is on. Don't ever go to Vegas. No, you'll lose because every emotion is right there on your face. 00:04:41 Speaker 4: I mean, I have been known to hold it back, but but like, why should I bother with you? 00:04:45 Speaker 1: When someone said, like telling you something insane? You are really good? It just kind of like, yeah, tell me a little bit more. 00:04:52 Speaker 2: Why don't you Wow, yeah, that's crazy. 00:04:54 Speaker 1: Yeah. Then I'll get a text, my text from a listone something that this is what you say, yo, Yeah that is why. Oh and that's the text I got. Yes, it's never like hey, Michael, here's something that's going on. I know there's some function is happening when I get YO and I'm like, drop everything here. We got the tea yeah. 00:05:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah is piping and it's usually so the YO. 00:05:20 Speaker 1: Is like, Yo, I need to brace myself. 00:05:25 Speaker 4: So and so has said something that is so Do you remember there was a moment So I don't know if people people must know this, right. 00:05:34 Speaker 2: Michael and I used to work together. 00:05:36 Speaker 4: And I remember we were reading something that somebody who is a professional writer had Do you remember this had sent us? And I looked at it and I started throwing. 00:05:50 Speaker 2: Things across the room. 00:05:51 Speaker 4: I was livid, like I cannot believe that this person makes this amount of money and. 00:05:58 Speaker 2: This is that's what we've got. 00:06:01 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 00:06:01 Speaker 4: I was so and Michael had to like talk me down. He was like, Melissa, it's fine, we'll fix it. 00:06:06 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't want to have to fix it. That's her goddamn job. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: So mad you get so, yeah, there the there's other things you've been totally incensed by recently. 00:06:18 Speaker 2: Recently the world. 00:06:20 Speaker 1: It's the world, but you, yeah, there are sometimes things and it's never with you. I've noticed this about you. It's not the roast it is it's the Doctor Phil show. It is psychologically, I notice what happens with you. 00:06:38 Speaker 2: What is it? 00:06:39 Speaker 1: It's never the horrific thing and it's and it's it's not it's not like headlines. It's always like the straw that broke the camel's back, and you fixate on the one little stupid thing and you get so mad about that. And I know that whenever you're upset about that, it's because of the year of bullshit leading up to that, where you weren't complaining, where you weren't. 00:07:06 Speaker 2: Saying anything, or I was just choking it back. 00:07:08 Speaker 1: And then someone coughs and doesn't cover their mouth and you get out of glock and the ar and it really is it is, yeah, murder on the dance floor. 00:07:19 Speaker 2: Do you think that? 00:07:20 Speaker 1: And then she keeps their car? Do I think? 00:07:23 Speaker 2: What do you think that? That is a Taurus trait? I think that it is. 00:07:27 Speaker 1: You told me once you were like I was mad at my dad for something. And this is one hundred years ago. 00:07:32 Speaker 2: You were mad at your daughter. I was mad. 00:07:33 Speaker 1: I was not at my dad, and you were like, Michael, you have to say something because you and I are the same. We're both tauruses. 00:07:42 Speaker 2: Coming up on tours season. 00:07:43 Speaker 1: Yeah, Buckalop. 00:07:44 Speaker 2: My birthdays are two days apart. 00:07:46 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you said you need to say something to your dad otherwise you'll be at the dinner table and you'll just explode. 00:07:55 Speaker 2: You'll do that what's her name from Housewives which he. 00:08:01 Speaker 1: Throws the table, Yeah? 00:08:03 Speaker 2: Or Cardi B Jude Ice or Cardi B. 00:08:07 Speaker 4: What is. 00:08:09 Speaker 1: Yeah? And you're right, you do just kind of have to say something. 00:08:12 Speaker 2: You do. 00:08:13 Speaker 1: But it is a tourist trait where we hold it in. I do hold it in, and we wait and wait and wait, and then it's that one time my husband loads the dishwasher wrong and he puts the leg crusan Melissa, No, yes, no, yeah, no, And he's being brought up on war crimes at the Hague like it's actually so bad. 00:08:34 Speaker 2: Okay, So now I'm wondering, what did you not teach. 00:08:37 Speaker 1: Him, Melissa. This is the state of education in America. Cannot be left at my feet. You can't lay that at my feet. 00:08:44 Speaker 2: I'm not going to lay all of. 00:08:45 Speaker 4: It at your feet, but I am going to lay your husband putting in the Luquist in the dishwasher at your feet. 00:08:50 Speaker 1: And everyone learns in different ways, right. We have visual learners, we have people who need to be beaten. 00:08:55 Speaker 2: What'sd why are you doing that? 00:08:57 Speaker 1: I bring it up every time and he's like, it takes two seconds to wash this. Yeah, it's the size of a buick for sure. To put that in the dishwasher. 00:09:06 Speaker 2: You can't put anything else in there. 00:09:07 Speaker 1: It's a it's a one night only engagement. We've got just the La Cruse cycle going now, and it's not going to clean it. We like burned macaroni in that it's not coming out. That is that is an elbow grease situation. The dawn that saves the ducklings from the oil spills isn't even going to be able to know. 00:09:27 Speaker 2: You need like a barman's keeper or whatever that one is. 00:09:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the barman's keeper. We need that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like there's a fabulous so equivalent. 00:09:37 Speaker 2: No, okay, not for that, Okay. 00:09:39 Speaker 4: I had to tell Andre many times that he can't put cast iron in the dishwasher. 00:09:46 Speaker 1: But that is actually wicked. 00:09:47 Speaker 2: He was, and he was just like why not. 00:09:49 Speaker 1: He's like, it's nice. It takes the blackout, it comes out light brown. 00:09:53 Speaker 2: And it's a rust, babe, that's rust. He doesn't do it anymore. 00:09:56 Speaker 1: He's learned, but it took a while. Yeah. The thing is is that I think what's happening in our house is we alternate nights of dishes. So if you walk the dog, you fold the laundry and sort of get the bedroom ready. If you do the dishes, you tidy up the living room and hang up the coats. 00:10:14 Speaker 2: So wait, why don't you hanging up your own coats every night? You sho're not gonna answer me. No, I'm not okay, So you guys come and just throw the coats on the floor. 00:10:20 Speaker 1: And you know what, I don't owe you any answers. 00:10:23 Speaker 4: I disagree. I'm asking you a question. You should provide me with the answer. 00:10:29 Speaker 1: If during the course of a day, there's like the clothing chair. You don't have a clothing chair. It's the chair you throw all your clothes and bag and I have. 00:10:36 Speaker 2: Like a basket. But yes, it's the same, thank you. 00:10:39 Speaker 1: Thank you. We're not throwing them, I mean sometimes on the floor, but not it's like the bench by the door. 00:10:44 Speaker 2: We throw I mean Andre, every every day, every day. 00:10:50 Speaker 1: I cut to you and me in divorce court, like the two of us are not gonna that's not We're not gonna make it. 00:10:55 Speaker 4: Not even at this point, is like I just sort of like, pick it up now, but Andre to wear socks, t shirt on the floor in a pile. 00:11:03 Speaker 1: Every tears it off, just what you know what. And some days it do be like that. Every day I got to rip your close off. It's if it's August, it's every day off of me. 00:11:18 Speaker 2: It's every damn yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's every day. 00:11:20 Speaker 1: I love that though, that is like, I think that's great, do you Yeah. I think it's so liberating, it's so freeing. It's very like Upstate Commune of him. I love that. It is very much like Flower Crown energy. 00:11:33 Speaker 4: Maybe, but I just think, you know, he thinks there's a magic fairy who comes in to pick up That's oh, this is what I want to tell you. Sorry, speaking of picking up things, I'm sorry. It's all gonna make so much sense. So I finally caved and we have a cleaning person. 00:11:49 Speaker 5: You do. 00:11:50 Speaker 1: I love it support an immigrant community. 00:11:52 Speaker 2: Like I love that, I do you know what's an immigrant? 00:11:54 Speaker 1: Well I'm that's actually great. Thank you for clocking my privilege, not assuming we had a white cleaning lady growing up. But wait no, she was Polish, so she was an immigrant. So yeah, okay, so tell me not an immigrant she is? Okay, yeah, you fucking fuck you. 00:12:10 Speaker 3: She is. 00:12:11 Speaker 1: Just like I just wanted to make a white man uncomfortable for. 00:12:13 Speaker 2: Us, because you know what to be roasty, you all need to be roasted every now. 00:12:17 Speaker 1: Want to catch me with the accountability, I admitted it, But. 00:12:20 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so nice to like just have a clean place and everything is where it's supposed to be. 00:12:25 Speaker 2: So that's great. 00:12:25 Speaker 4: And also, you know, a friend of mine was saying, and you're also hiring somebody, you're helping putting money into the economy. 00:12:30 Speaker 2: All that is really true. 00:12:32 Speaker 4: There is a part of me, though, that feels guilty about it, Like it's just the two of us and Arthur Weasley. There is no reason why the two of us together cannot clean our own place. 00:12:46 Speaker 1: So the guilt isn't about having someone clean up after you. It's the guilt is over, like you feel like you failed. 00:12:51 Speaker 2: No, no, no, the guilt is. 00:12:52 Speaker 4: The guilt is why do I need someone to clean my home? I am capable of cleaning my home. 00:12:58 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not going to do it very well. Like it's the apartment right now is as clean as it's going to get with my efforts, and it's not very clean. 00:13:07 Speaker 2: Is it not clean or is it messy? 00:13:10 Speaker 1: It's not clean? Oh, Like I'm not like taking a Saturday to like scrub everything and mop and sweep, like I'm not doing that. Okay, So I think that's where that is for me, Okay, but for you, you're feeling like I should be doing this. 00:13:22 Speaker 4: You're feeling like I should be doing this. There are already things that I don't do, Like I don't really do laundry. We send our laundry out and I don't even take it to a place. They come to my house and they pick it up in a drop it back. 00:13:34 Speaker 1: I have a feeling. Do you feel a way about that at all? 00:13:36 Speaker 2: Great about that? 00:13:36 Speaker 1: Yeah? We had? Okay, so in our old apartment, every time the cleaner would come and it was like once a month or every other month. The outlet in our bedroom was like always unplugged. 00:13:48 Speaker 2: What were they plugging in? 00:13:49 Speaker 1: And Brad and I were like, is she like filming in the bedroom or something? It was like, oh, I was like is there Like I don't know. I don't really know her, Like I don't She's a beautiful young woman, and I'm like, is she like filming? Is she like a cam girl? Like? What is happening in the bedroom? And so I called Shermaine who knows everything. She's just like I just have one of these friends. She's like, fucking who knows that wikipedia, She's just she's just good. She was like, you're such a stupid idiot. She's like she's gotta plug in the vacuum. It's like, oh yeah, that does make much more sense than she's moonlighting as a cam girl in my bed. Like she's just like you know what, slanging and banging while in my bedroom then cleaning it up. 00:14:41 Speaker 2: Some vacuum. 00:14:42 Speaker 1: It was always in the bedroom. And then I was like, oh, right, there is I was like, what is she doing? Ouldry, Yeah, we just had boomer banks that last week. But then I was like, you're right, there is only one outlet in the bedroom and she probably just wasn't plugging the lamp back in. 00:14:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so funny. 00:15:03 Speaker 1: Let's get into your algorithm is showing what's going on. What is it in your feed today? 00:15:08 Speaker 2: What's in your feet? We've been talking about my feet a lot. 00:15:10 Speaker 1: I've been talking about my feed. Have you seen punch the monkey at all? Has this like hit your feet at all? You were obsessed with the baby hippo. 00:15:17 Speaker 2: I love hippos so much. 00:15:20 Speaker 1: Melissa was obsessed with what was the name of. 00:15:22 Speaker 2: It, Fiona? Her name was Fiona. 00:15:26 Speaker 1: But you didn't see Melissa's face. If you're listening to this, I've never seen like such empathy and like empathy, heartfelt warmth come on an expression from you. 00:15:38 Speaker 2: It's it's not true. 00:15:39 Speaker 1: It's not that it's uncommon, it's just it really shone through. When you said Fiona, you went Fiona the shoe gaisy koy moment. 00:15:52 Speaker 2: So just generally I like hippos. 00:15:55 Speaker 1: I think she she's like, okay, so more about Fiona, yes, no, but no, no no. 00:16:01 Speaker 2: I just generally I like hippos. I think they're cute. I am well aware. I am well aware. 00:16:06 Speaker 4: That they're not very nice and that they kill you just because they can. But I still and they know the best. 00:16:11 Speaker 1: What same girl right back at you. 00:16:14 Speaker 2: You're talking to. 00:16:15 Speaker 1: The woman who kicked him man on the subway, and you're tongue. 00:16:17 Speaker 2: He takes me first, and he had it coming. Let the record reflect. 00:16:21 Speaker 1: He knows what he did. 00:16:22 Speaker 4: He know, he knows what he did. But yeah, so I just happened to light them. And then there was like this new one that was born, and she was so cute, so cute and chubby. Her little ears would wiggle and. 00:16:35 Speaker 1: They're slimy little skin. It was very cute. It was very cute. I even think the big hippos are cute. 00:16:40 Speaker 2: Oh, I think they're so cute. They're just really nasty. Did you know that Colombia, sorry, Pablo Escobar. 00:16:45 Speaker 1: Had like a whole zoo, had a hole ze, yes, and they didn't know what to do with it. 00:16:49 Speaker 4: He imported hippos and then when she got back a Pablo, the hippos got loose in the wild in the jungles of Colombia where they are breeding like rabbit. They're they're changing the infrastructure, the ecosystem in Colombia. The local people now have done this thing where they're making money off of this. They have tours Escobar's hippos. The hippos are killing people left and right. It's bananas. 00:17:18 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 00:17:18 Speaker 2: I'm kind of all about it though. 00:17:20 Speaker 1: I would, I would, I would. 00:17:22 Speaker 4: That sounds kind of I know, but they're not indigenous to Colombia, so it's actually really. 00:17:27 Speaker 1: It's not like one of these like oh more. 00:17:31 Speaker 4: And apparently I think I read I could be wrong, but like their scat is really toxic for the area. 00:17:37 Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't know, but whatever, that's what I read. 00:17:40 Speaker 1: And it makes me worry because it's like there's really only one solution to that, you know what I mean. And I don't think it's like where we're air airlifting hippos out and like placing them in zoos. I don't think that's how. 00:17:54 Speaker 4: I don't think that's And so there was this movement to get rid of them. But the local the people of the area who have now started to make money off of this, they like, please do not do this. You will send us directly back into poverty. Really fascinating that interestingnation, I know, but did you imagine, like, oh, I think I'm just going to get a zoo and I'm going to get a I'm going to know his arket. 00:18:19 Speaker 1: So Punch the Monkey has gone viral, okay, and I already ordered a shirt. It's okay. It's going to get here in four to six weeks. It's being hand embroidered. We talked about it already. 00:18:30 Speaker 2: Let me see what this say is. 00:18:31 Speaker 1: Go ahead, look up the monkey. I'll look him up. So he's very cute and he is being bullied by all the other monkeys at this suit. And I believe it's tokyo, right c J. 00:18:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. Let me just say this. When you Google, I was like, what is this? 00:18:46 Speaker 4: When you Google Punch the Monkey and it comes up, Google sends hearts with a monkey in it? 00:18:53 Speaker 2: Did you know? 00:18:53 Speaker 1: No, there's a lot of support. I don't think so. I don't know Google could do that. 00:18:59 Speaker 2: Neither did I, but it just did it. Wow, that's weird. 00:19:03 Speaker 4: You know what though, I gotta tell you my cousin Erica loves monkeys, and and we talk about this all the time about how I don't like monkeys. 00:19:12 Speaker 1: I don't like monkeys. I'm not like they're a monkey. 00:19:14 Speaker 2: Girly like too much like people. I don't like. 00:19:18 Speaker 1: That, and like once they turn around, they've got like gross butts. They've got like like a. 00:19:23 Speaker 4: Bad boon, but the bad boone butt, I think. But I think the bad boon butt is especially when they're in heat. 00:19:29 Speaker 2: I think what I think? I think I think got the good thing. 00:19:32 Speaker 1: Even David Attenborough could narrate that into like a fun cute moment. 00:19:36 Speaker 2: I think I think that's what it is, But I'm not sure. 00:19:38 Speaker 1: The bad boon when bum, he would say bum right on his bum. So, so Punch is getting bullied by the other monkeys. 00:19:50 Speaker 2: Apparently two days ago he was making friends and fitting then Okay, that. 00:19:53 Speaker 1: Is really that's actually reassuring because it has kept my household up at night. Brad is deeply invested the. 00:19:59 Speaker 2: Monkey finally by his peers after primate was abandoned by I don't know. 00:20:02 Speaker 1: What the way with a live coverage, it's a live feed. Oh wait, wait, we've got Chris John amenpor being lowered into the monkey tank. 00:20:09 Speaker 4: These are the questions that people ask in Google. Is punched the monkey? Okay, now we'll punch the monkey? Be okay, what's going on with punch the monkey? What is punch the monkey? I'm here to answer all your questions. 00:20:23 Speaker 1: He does. I'm sure he does. And so he was being bullied finally being accepted. It sounds like, but before then he had a stuffed animal. I see it that he was self soothing with around the world. Yeah, and the zoo keepers were sort of and the zoo keepers would come in to feed the monkeys and he would jump on the zoo keeper's shoulders to kind of like. 00:20:46 Speaker 2: Because it didn't have to cuddle. 00:20:48 Speaker 1: He didn't have any friends. Yeah, so that's been hitting my feed. 00:20:52 Speaker 2: It's very sad. Now I'm looking at it. God, damn it. 00:20:56 Speaker 1: See now you're really invested. 00:20:58 Speaker 4: No, but it's sad Like looking at him sort of like cuddling with his plushy is weird. 00:21:03 Speaker 2: It makes me feel sad. 00:21:05 Speaker 1: I saw one tweet that was like, I know that plushy smells ripe. Discuss I know that thing smells nasty. 00:21:14 Speaker 2: Anyway, go ahead. 00:21:16 Speaker 1: My niece has been asking me to get her something this like viral squishy squishy toy. It's it's like a stress ball, but it's I forget what it is. 00:21:26 Speaker 3: Big. 00:21:27 Speaker 1: It's called. 00:21:29 Speaker 2: Michael Rude. 00:21:31 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I bet it's the toy store. I'm trying to get my niece this freaking stress Wait, there's a line, it's like a beanie baby line to get these stress balls for kids. They're called like something dough d o h, me dough and e E d o h. And the kids are going wild for them. And so my niece texted me she wanted one. So I've got a local toy store in my neighborhood that I was going to anyway to buy a gift for someone. So it's like, oh, hey, do you have the needles? The woman rolled her eyes in my face is she scoff scoffed, like I had just asked her for the hope diamond. I was like, what, Like, I was just googled. I didn't know that they were sold for your simple bit stupid. And then she spit on me. She said get out, you had it coming and I was like sorry, I didn't realize, and she was like, you don't understand. The phone's been ringing off the hook all day asking for the need do She's like, it's only five dollars. It's basically a stress ball. And I was like, okay, well can I get one? And she was like, look, you clearly have no idea what's going on in the world, right, You're clearly so focused on punch the monkey. You don't know anything about what's happening in my world of children's toys, sir. And she said, why don't you come back tomorrow with cash four one pm? She said, because the kids at the local public school get out for lunch around twelve forty five one o'clock. So she said, get here before them with cash, because there's going to be a line out out the door around twelve forty. 00:23:06 Speaker 2: Five, so you should go there before that. 00:23:09 Speaker 1: She said, you need to come here before then with cash. Yeah, because the FedEx guy arrives between eleven and three, so you can come back around eleven and try and see it. 00:23:18 Speaker 2: And she wasn't, Well, it's a hold one for you. So I was like, oh, you know, did you try and no dice? 00:23:23 Speaker 1: No dice? 00:23:24 Speaker 2: Wow? And I mean she's got ethics and scruples, scruples. 00:23:29 Speaker 1: I rarely hear the words scruples anymore. 00:23:31 Speaker 2: Because people don't have them anymore. Michael scoops. 00:23:36 Speaker 1: So it's so Shakespeareance, there was so Hamnet. 00:23:39 Speaker 4: There was a trashy novel I read that was called Scruples, And I think there was a. 00:23:44 Speaker 1: Mad TV toll stoy No no. 00:23:46 Speaker 2: No stop, no no no stop. 00:23:49 Speaker 1: How dare you don't hold on? Let's put some respect on his name. 00:23:52 Speaker 2: Told there, So, which size is Maddie want? There's a there's a big. 00:23:56 Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing is, I'm going to get whatever I can get my dirty little hands on, and there's and then she's going to be like, I don't know that one. She's like, that wasn't the one I was looking at. So you know, I'm going to do my best as the fun uncle, and we're going to see what happens. Because I did call this morning and the woman took the phone off the hook at the toy store, so clearly someone's people are harassing her. She's just like this bald lawyer keeps showing up and bothering me. So we're gonna we really are going to see where that goes. I know there's more important things in the world. Well, but it's so rare, and it was actually like kind of fun throwback for me waiting for like a Harry Potter book when I was younger, or waiting for a beanie baby drop or do you have Beanie Baby? I was a beanie baby kid. 00:24:37 Speaker 2: How many beaning babies did you have a lot of them? 00:24:39 Speaker 1: Not like a lot, but I was like really excited. It was like, you know, we would get excited about the shipman coming in, like would the new beanie baby drop. So it did kind of bring me back to the choice of my youth before I was a hardened criminal, before this life of crime. 00:24:52 Speaker 2: And you know this before you got jaded. 00:24:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, this sort of hard knock life. 00:25:00 Speaker 4: Scruples is a best selling nineteen seventy eight novel by Judith Krantz. It follows the glamorous life of Wilhelmina Billy Winthrop, the owner of a high end Beverly Hills boutique, exploring themes of fashion, Hollywood, and romance. And there were two I think there were like two made for TV movies about this in nineteen seventy eight. I probably read this book when I was like ten. I should not have been reading this book. 00:25:27 Speaker 1: Yeah. A lot of petticoats getting lifted up, well bush, lot of blushing. 00:25:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, women smelling like lab let's. 00:25:36 Speaker 1: Bring back petticoats in the word scruples. I think that's our take from today. I think if I start using scruples in court. Actually, I know one judge that would love for me. 00:25:45 Speaker 2: To use words like shoes. 00:25:46 Speaker 1: Yeah. He's always commenting on my beard. So I have appearances before this judge. 00:25:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, why is he commenting on your face? 00:25:55 Speaker 1: Every time I see him, He's like, oh, you shaved. 00:26:00 Speaker 2: Like, oh you shave, Like what a refreshing change. 00:26:03 Speaker 1: It's just an observations and he's it's never like good or bad. 00:26:09 Speaker 2: It's all observation. 00:26:10 Speaker 1: Counselor you have a beard, And I'm like, yes, I noticed it's on my face. Yeah. So we're very friendly you and this judge. Yeah, but I did kind of have to throw down the gauntlet on him a little bit this week because it was it was today, it was this morning. 00:26:25 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:26:25 Speaker 1: So basically in America, we've talked a little bit about like bond proceedings and how like people are just like languishing and bond detention centers, and basically judges are saying, like, we don't have dhs. Trump administration are like making up rules where it's like, oh, if you're in this type of category and if you carry the one and if you're wearing red on that day, you don't qualify for Bond, right, and it's just like this weird, like back of the Cereal box maze that they're kind of creating. But the judges, a lot of judges are like, oh, they're just kind of I wouldn't say blindly, but they're agreeing and saying, oh, well, I don't have jurisdiction to sort of rule on bond anymore. And so what I've been trying to do is, because I have scruples, I've been trying to get them on the judges on the record saying that they don't have jurisdiction. And then I'm like tucking my hair behind my ear, tossing my hair just like nice, just like a nice blonde boy from Long Island beard or no beer. Why don't you have jurisdiction? I don't get it. And they're like, oh, well, because like this rule, and I'm like, oh okay. And then I'm like, so, if you don't have jurisdiction to rule on Bond, I guess I'll file a rid of habeas. I guess, like I don't. This is my first day. I don't know how to do this control out to lead like I'm not sure what do I do? And They're like, yeah, like, I guess if you wanted to file a rite of habeas in state or in federal court, like you could do that. That is like what some counselors doing. Meanwhile, I've read the entire practice manual on how this works. It's written by the acl Use blasts Ow practice manuals when they's developing case law, and so I know exactly like what we're supposed to know. And I'm like, Oh, Judge, for that hearing that I'm going to have in federal court, could you maybe set an alternate bond so I could tell that Judge, if it weren't for your jurisdiction problem, you would assign this bond amount. But you can't because you're not going to rule because you don't have jurisdiction. Give me like a plan B, and does that work? Sometimes it works. So sometimes they're like, oh, yeah, sure, if we did have jurisdiction, it would be two thousand dollars okay. And then I go to federal court and I'm like, it's two thousand dollars. They said it's two thousand. I got him on the record saying alternate bond is two grand if he had jurisdiction, So your honor in federal court rule in our favor that he should be released and I can get him out for two grand I already got him to commit to it. So that's how like the ACLU is advising practicing immigration attorneys to handle immigration judges who are like I don't have jurisdiction. So there's a little bit of insider baseball. But it is like, I'm kind of having fun. I'm kind of enjoying it. 00:29:14 Speaker 2: Well because you like messing with people. 00:29:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love just and it's legal strategy. Like it's not even like being a shady bitch where I'm like manipulating people like it doing my everyday life. But then I'm in court and I get to say it's legal strategy. Oh that's really nice. So it's really fun to, you know, abide by the rules and a certain legal strategy in the courtroom and then go back to my life where it can be a manipulative slut and. 00:29:43 Speaker 2: You do that very very well. 00:29:45 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, speaking of your algorithm is showing I feel like, I don't know, Timothy Shalomy getting canceled for the Ballet Opera that actually they're like mopping up his mess and someone was saying that it cost him the Oscar. 00:30:00 Speaker 4: Well, okay, here's here's the thing. I saw that. But I also think. 00:30:04 Speaker 2: When you say that that cost him the Oscar, I think it takes away from the person who actually won, right, Like the idea. 00:30:11 Speaker 1: That Timothy Chalame was never on my mind for an Oscar, especially not for Marty Supreme. 00:30:20 Speaker 4: So it's really interesting that you're saying that that has not hit my algorithm, almost that I don't. 00:30:24 Speaker 1: Even know what it's about. I was at an Oscar viewing party and my friend someone had to explain to me what it was. It's about ping pong, okay, and I said, that's all I need to say. 00:30:33 Speaker 2: Yes, seriously, that's all. 00:30:34 Speaker 1: I said, thank you so much. Where's the where the where's the crew de tee? I said, please pass the where's the boy? Thank you? The charter? What does Oprah say? I love Shark Couterie. 00:30:46 Speaker 5: Do you remember that? 00:30:47 Speaker 1: She's like I love But yeah, Timothy Challame, I don't know we're getting It's I just. 00:30:55 Speaker 4: I just don't care. I don't do you know what I'm saying, like in the like not in a way that I hold something. I just not on my radar. 00:31:02 Speaker 1: You don't hope he dies in a fire either. I'm just like, yeah, it wasn't care. It's given his it's given flop. It's given flop era, I think. And also I will say, Dune. 00:31:14 Speaker 2: Three, how many Dunes do we need? 00:31:16 Speaker 1: The Dune books don't get better as they go on, Like the first one was fierce great, third one, huh, Like it does get a little bit more wicked and wild. So I feel like, I hope whoever the screenwriters are taking. 00:31:36 Speaker 2: No they're not. 00:31:37 Speaker 1: I hope they're taking down that, putting their their spin on it. 00:31:40 Speaker 2: I doubt, And yeah, giving her a glow up, especially if it's the same. What I find is that. 00:31:47 Speaker 4: Many times, not every time, so calm down, but many times, when there are like sequels of things, it just becomes more watered down the more we get into it. 00:32:00 Speaker 2: And now it's like, I'll. 00:32:01 Speaker 4: Say this, it's what what was it that I watched? Oh, Masterful Beasts or whatever? Yeah, I went into that full on Harry Potter person really excited about it. 00:32:13 Speaker 2: I watched it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know that I needed it. And I'll go even further with the play. 00:32:22 Speaker 1: Oh the play when I Harry Potter on Broadway. 00:32:27 Speaker 4: So when I when I want to go see it, it was the two day thing. But I didn't do the two day. I did like the old day. 00:32:35 Speaker 2: I will never get that time, then. 00:32:40 Speaker 1: Multiple and again. 00:32:42 Speaker 4: Remember, well, no, but you know how much I love those stories, right, So I wanted this to you and I decided, you know what, I'm going to go by myself. This is going to be a Melissa Day. 00:32:58 Speaker 1: No, that Melissa Day was, Yeah. 00:33:00 Speaker 2: I was deeply disappointed. 00:33:01 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, so just because something is good, yeah, doesn't need we. 00:33:06 Speaker 1: Need to like the Dune, we have to make the fifth So the whole like ensemble cast on audiobook. 00:33:12 Speaker 4: Now, oh you know what, somebody gifted me the first one and I listened to it and I did. 00:33:18 Speaker 1: Not care for it, like I think. And so Timothy Shollley to clarify his statements were that ballet and opera are like dead, are like Irrelevanteah, that was like sort of what he said. And then he said, oh, I guess I just lost one percent of my followers or something. So cavalier and Matthew McConaughey's face. 00:33:40 Speaker 2: That's the thing. That's the clip that I saw when he's looking at him and he's just like. 00:33:43 Speaker 1: Oh shit, this guy's really Oh just let him dig his Yeah, I'm just going to see He's like, I'm going to be polytrates now, Matthew McConaughey and June four, because Timothy's contract is about to get going at least well, because now not only have you a fan did like a community of people, you offended a community of people known for being fucking dramatic. So like, good luck to you, sir, good night, and good luck on Shaw. You didn't. You didn't offend the quiet librarian. You offended the oper thing. 00:34:15 Speaker 7: Yeah, he's known for yelling, belting out the notes and who's on TikTok your toast man? 00:34:21 Speaker 2: I don't know. It just made him seem more irrelevant, do you know what I mean? Like you? 00:34:26 Speaker 4: This is already not somebody that I cared about, But now I'm looking for more reasons to not like you, because you're dumb. 00:34:33 Speaker 1: Things as if you're relevant. You're saying things as if everyone's like, what what's Timothy's opinion on this? Well, oh I can't. At a film festival a couple of years ago, he was like, oh, societal collapses in the air and I was like, what, what are you talking about? 00:34:47 Speaker 2: A scholar? 00:34:48 Speaker 1: Are you just anyone? What? Anyway, let's take a break. We've got a guest coming up. Welcome back to Brief Recess. This is under Oath. I'm so excited. I'm a huge fan. I'm very happy to have yo Anna from an extraordinary modeling career. She's very well known in the modeling industry. You may know her as the winner of cycle two of America's Next Top Model. She is right now being featured in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. It's America's Next Top Model e documentary that was released at the same time as the Netflix documentary. So thank you so much for coming, Yoanna. We're so much. 00:35:24 Speaker 3: Thank you, Michael. I'm excited to talk with you and Melissa. 00:35:27 Speaker 2: It's nice to meet you, yo Wanna. 00:35:29 Speaker 4: Nice. 00:35:29 Speaker 1: Thank you for coming. I thought it would just be really interesting. I mean, this is a legal podcast, but we cover everything everything, pop culture, news, everything that's going on. And I'm love being on social media, so we have so many things that come up on my feed, and you were definitely one of them. I mean, like the things that are going on right now as there is this like reckoning moment in America for the history of America's Next Top Model and really reality television in the two thousands, right in thers. So I thought it would be so cool to have you and welcome you to the show, and we really just want to like talk to you and get to know you and hear about your experiences. I want to ask, I think it would be best if we start before you were on Archan Sextus, sure, because you had a long, incredible modeling career and it wasn't like it began with Tyra Banks. 00:36:22 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's true. I think there's a little bit of a misconception that I identified all of my modeling career from being on the show. But no, I actually I had lost a significant amount of weight because I did want to break into modeling. I was at University of studying International Relations and I had a chance to kind of test do testing in Miami with a few agencies, and I got discovered by Ford Models and they had given me, Yeah, they'd given me a contract, but prior to that, during the week that I got the contract, I got the call to audition for the show. So I hadn't signed it yet and I remember telling Michelle Mack, who was the casting director, Hey, I have this model, and she was very like, take it or leave it. If you want to come on the show, great, but you can't. You know, I can't tell you what to do, but we don't accept models that have signed contracts to come on this show. So I did the audition and that was a very thorough long process, and I decided, well, you know, at least if I try out, I'll have a broader reach. I also thought there'd be some sort of mentorship and great experience and kind of like somewhat of a boot camp. And I thought, well, I can come home to at least a contract waiting for me with four models. 00:37:37 Speaker 1: What was that like then? So you went on America's ex Hum Model. You won. Spoiler alert it was not it was a while ago, so no spoilers here. You won your season. What was that journey like? Do you feel like after America's sex Hum Model, this was that was the right sort of path to take. Did you have this moment where you were. 00:37:58 Speaker 4: Like, oh, I was thinking, like I was wondering in hindsight, if you had to do it all over again. Is there any part of you that wishes that maybe you had gone ahead and stayed with Ford, or do you feel like you know you were at the right moment at the right time, and being on America's Next Top Model was a good thing for you to do. 00:38:17 Speaker 3: I think it's hard for me to even answer that because I come from Jacksonville, which is kind of a small town but a big city, and I was really sheltered, and so I feel like my ultimate goal was to live in New York City and to work as a fashion model. And I think, you know, I might have stayed in the Florida market and gradually progressed, But in hindsight, I think the one takeaway from the whole experience, I'm not I don't deal well with Celebritism, and I find because it opens the door to a lot of coolness, and it's very hard for me to even kind of take a risk to at the time that I was getting offers to go back on reality TV, and I really just was adamant about staying the course and being a fashion model and also growing in television, and that's really where my I guess you could say I was able to break out of the debt that incurred after the show. I wasn't expecting a lot after the win, what was going to happen or what was going to have to be on my shoulders, And it really was eye opening and it kind of had to navigate how to be a business woman. 00:39:20 Speaker 1: And so after you won the show, walk us through what that experience was like. Right, there were certain promises we're hearing all over the internet, We're seeing all over these documentaries that really what was billed as Tyra was going to be your mentor you were going to get these modeling contracts, you were going to get signed by these agencies. This was your career was pretty much guaranteed. Right, We're really learning now that that is not necessarily what the takeaway was, or at least that promise not necessarily that that all of that was promised that you were going to be a superstar if you won this show. But they weren't also dispelling that rumor or letting the girls know like, hey, yeah, it's really going to be up to you your celebrity, how famous you are, how far you make it in the modeling industry, that's really going to be up to you, and whether you're an entrepreneur. 00:40:16 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think that discussion hadn't even happened. I just remember coming off the show You Go the Way. For six months, I was still nannying. I saved up all of my money, and I knew I was going to have to eventually move to New York. I didn't know the day they announced me that I had to live in New York. So we've been navigating where I was going to live. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. And on that same day, you know, getting established with an agency that you know, that was the contract I won. It was only for one year, but I stayed for several years, and it really was just a right to work. But where they're empty promises a thousand percent, there was you're going to be doing this, You're going to be doing that. So in my mind I kept building up, Oh great, now I'm going to be self sufficient and I can take care of myself. They're going to be introducing me to this client and to that client, and they have a lot of pull because of their record. You know, I don't want to throw names out there, but you know, certain people are very recognized, and I thought, Okay, they're gonna want to They're gonna want to introduce me I'm gonna make introductions and I'm gonna work hard to prove myself after this and ended up being where I just felt it was more about being a jockey, uh for the franchise and having to constantly do appearance after appearance after appearance after appearance, and I was getting billed for all those appearances in regards to hair, makeup, car services if there was a flight or a delay, and I was I was shocked. I was shocked that, you know, maybe being so naive and trusting that I thought it would have gotten taken care of by the network, but no, it was all on me. And that was separate from what was the debt incurring with the agency because I had to rebuild my whole portfolio. They couldn't use any of the images from the show, and so I had to. 00:41:57 Speaker 1: Interest you because it's all owned by the network. 00:41:59 Speaker 3: It's all yeah, I mean, and I think it doesn't really sell a model because you have to be so toned down. So that day when I signed, I went directly to go shoot with some of the world's greatest photographers and I was having to incur which the testing fees I and and that would be the branding for the agency. So that was that was a whole separate debt that I was incurring. And then I was having to figure out how I was going to maintain living in New York while doing all of this. And a big part of the shock to me was with all the appearances, I did have work coming in, but I wasn't allowed to take some of the jobs because I was indebted to the franchise and they got seniority over me being able to work. 00:42:43 Speaker 1: Ooh, that's a lot of crazy. 00:42:45 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:42:46 Speaker 1: So just for people who are listening and maybe don't understand, so you had signed this contract to be on this show. It sounds like all these terms were in that contract. You're going to do all these appearances. It's going to be at your own expense. We get first right over a few usual for any if you book a gig and we have you booked at that same time, they could kill a deal that you got in market because you already signed that contract. 00:43:10 Speaker 3: I had two great deals that were like in the works, and they were like, I'm sorry, but you have to go up here. And then I started becoming really angry because I thought, Okay, first of all, how am I going to be able to afford to maintain the title of America's next top model when I'm not even able to take some of the jobs that they're are. 00:43:28 Speaker 1: I can't even just take work that any model it could could get a gig. 00:43:33 Speaker 4: So, you know, so after you win, is that when you sign a contract for the year that's ahead of you and did you get an opportunity to show that contract to anybody else or did you? And you know, and being young and naive or whatever, you just would have signed it thinking that I should trust these people. 00:43:53 Speaker 3: I have a fun we have a funny thing. Because you're an attorney, Michael, I think anytime you're like I'm going to get an attorney to look at this well to do that, you're around grateful and you don't want this job and write. So it was very like, oh crap, Like okay, so I remember, I remember signing onto the show and if you want, and the fine print was there. However, I do not recall anything in regards to appearances or how many and I'm not talking three, four, five, six, seven, eight, No, it was like getting into the dozens, and you know, also going on onto the show, doing all these red carpet events, doing charity events, doing step and repeats for the network. It was like, I mean, in hindsight, it was just so many and then you know, and I'll be honest, it was overwhelming. I didn't have the clothes to support the appearances. I didn't have the budget to do that, and a lot of the fashion houses did not want to lend to a winner of America's Next Top Model. 00:44:50 Speaker 1: Sure, why do you think that was because you were on an earlier season the sort of campiness of the show hadn't They really leaned hard into the insanity, right. I think at one point we have images of the models, the contestants walking down a runway where there's like a clock pendulum swinging like knocked and girls off the runway. Yeah, there was like a runway challenge where they're on a treadmill and aid and chiels, like they really got truly insane camp with it. 00:45:20 Speaker 2: There was another runway that I remember where it was on. 00:45:23 Speaker 4: Water and the models had some sort of the steps were on water, but they were like wobbling and these girls were in high heels and they're trying to and what. 00:45:33 Speaker 1: I remember it was fear factor pretty much. 00:45:36 Speaker 4: But I just remember looking at that and feeling like and you know, and Tyra and all the others were like laughing and giggling, and you know, it felt very mean, like mean girl to me. 00:45:48 Speaker 3: Well, I think they practiced for the wildlong West of the Internet, didn't they. 00:45:51 Speaker 1: Yes, they did, yet they did, and I signed up. 00:45:56 Speaker 3: I'm kind of like grateful for you know, what I took away from, which is navigating not giving so much energy and response of a negative confrontation. But you know, it also made me stronger in regards to the business side. But yeah, it started becoming where it was they were definitely humiliating the girls and I didn't watch it after my season because of that. That was my main reason. I didn't want to see girls being humiliated. And I thought that as the seasons went on, the more of the shoots were becoming more and more outlandish and ridiculous, and they didn't really translate into the fashion arena. So you know, I kind of just felt a little bit jaded for what they were doing to the rest of the contestants and the hopeful I think the thing with people don't understand I wanted the right to work, and a lot of these girls on and we're so naive and we're so trusting that we're like, Okay, this is going to be this is really going to help us have a farther reach. We're going to have more opportunities, We're gonna be able to be self sufficient. And it just you know, I came at a cost. 00:47:00 Speaker 1: So you won your season, you had this experience. You've really managed to build an incredible career after winning your season. It sounds like against all odds. 00:47:12 Speaker 3: Oh the odds were well. Also, when I won, there was no social media, so there was no fact checking to know what I had been doing. 00:47:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was no way for people to be like, oh, look she's at this event, or oh that's the fiftieth tharity event. Yeah, in the same dress. 00:47:27 Speaker 3: I know, kind of great, but no, Yeah, one of the I did do a lot of fashion modeling during that time in New York, and I traveled worldwide. I had a cosmetic campaigns, I did a lot of fashion commentating and reporting, and I had my own Shawnee Networks, and I had multiple specials with the Lore magazine. I did a Vogue Beauty TV. I mean, the list was really insane as far as broadcasting, and it was at a time when I think the only other model at the agency was Heidi Klum who was getting into television. So they really did in me and doing that. And then when I had left New York I had my son. I did so much modeling much more when I moved to Florida, because I guess the market for what I who I was expanded, and it was and it was amazing because I did catalogs, I booked QVC at home shopping network opportunities. I had at least thirty covers within the first two years. When I moved back, I did like campaign for Waldorf Astoria, like a bunch of hotels, a lot of luxury. So when people say you should have hustled, you should have had a career, honey, out was working my ass. 00:48:36 Speaker 2: Sure, you were, of course, certain and hard. 00:48:39 Speaker 4: You want to let me ask you a question before, before you were on America's Next Top Model and you had signed with Ford, when you imagined yourself being a model, what did that look like to you? 00:48:51 Speaker 3: You know, that's a great question because in the time growing up, we were in the nineties, so that whole era of like chic and photography and the quality of fashion as far As was so fascinating to me, and I think putting forth the effort of like really wanting to belong and having that fashion background, I think ideally at that age, I just wanted to break away from the intensity of studying international relations and have a little bit of fantasy. And I loved being behind the camera. I loved I love, I love not being controlled by a schedule. So I felt like being able to travel, having working around artists, working around creatives is something I've always enjoyed. I'm very free spirited, so I like someone picking up the phone, a manager or a booker saying, hey, you're booked on this, you got to lead tomorrow. That to me is what makes me feel exciting about life. So I think I think that was it. And I also think I looked up to the top models like Stephanie Seymour to me was like who I wanted to become, but my my own version, you know. And Doris Yeah, so yeah, So it was really taken back and I just I fell in love with the whole ideal of just like being a part of that group. 00:50:09 Speaker 1: So after America's Next Top Model, were you paid as the winner? Was there a prize? Money or what was that like? 00:50:16 Speaker 2: Oh sorry, oh on is laughing. 00:50:22 Speaker 1: Oh no, I went in the. 00:50:25 Speaker 3: Red, I went in the deficit, I went in debt, and I broke out of the debt and here I am today. 00:50:31 Speaker 1: That's incredible. Congratulations, that's amazing. Yeah, okay, So walk me through these documentaries. What is sort of happening right now from your perspective, because we're seeing the clips, they're sort of like dueling documentaries. We're seeing the clips. It seems like Tyra and her team wanted to preempt the current one on E by dropping a documentary on Netflix from Tyra's point of view, and I mean, this has been memed to death, sure, but there are so many images of Hyro and not taking accountability, putting the blame on other people, showing that she was just really complicit with what was happening to the girls and that you know, what was being sold to them was a faulty bill of goods. Right. So then we have the documentary that dropped that you are a part of with E. Tell us about it, walk us through it. How is it different from the Netflix one? What is going on? Like it really is dominating the news cycles. People don't know people are people are getting really heated about it. 00:51:35 Speaker 4: Sure, And what was so by participating what was your goal right by being in this because documentary being this documentary, because you've gone on to have, like you said, this really wonderful, illustrious career, and this is a long time ago, and you had said that, you know, one of the things that you didn't really love was like that celebrity that celebrity myth And so I'm wondering what the goal was by participate painting in this doc. 00:52:01 Speaker 3: Oh gosh, that's a great question. So I knew about both of the docs simultaneously at the same time, and I was approached by Glass Entertainment Group and that's the one that did the e Doctor. Officially it was going to be on a separate network streaming platform, but I think because the two had separated. However, whatever happened and I did and I did know about Netflix. They had I essentially they said it's best you couldn't do both at the same time, even though some of a couple of the girls did. But I heard initially that Tyra had not signed on to do the Netflix, that they had reached out to her and she had heard about the documentaries and her team, they said they couldn't get a clear answer, so I guess eventually she committed to the Netflix, and I do believe from seeing it, I think it was on the premise of hopefully getting people to tune into cycle twenty five. I think that was the goal. And I feel that one of the main reasons that I came out to talk about my experience was because this show has been packaged and sold worldwide over one hundred and fifty countries. The same practices are still happening, the same production, the same sort of exploitativeness of what's going on, and at a certain point, I'm a mom now I have a teenage son, but like I wanted to also come out and protect hopeful, naive young people who are thinking this is going to be the solution to their dreams and their goals and hopes, and I just wanted them to know, like, hey, the ones in charge are making the money. And I think it was an opportunity to come out. And also I couldn't talk about what I was dealing with twenty years ago because I wasn't ready to deal with it. I had a severe exercise disorder after winning the show I became so tiny to the point where you know, it complicated a lot of things in my health, and I felt like that was also something I wanted to come out and share and be very vulnerable and help a young lady or a daughter or a mother who is dealing with the same because it's not a topic that really gets discussed, especially in fashion. It's a lot of it is behind closed doors, but they do not want to come to surface, and so I thought it was an opportunity to also kind of set a lot of people that are struggling with the same things that I was. Free. 00:54:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, so take us through this documentary, tell us a little bit about it, what you talk about, let people know what is going on in there. 00:54:39 Speaker 3: Yeah. So this particular doc I think they had brought a couple of the winners. I do think there's a lot of cultural critics, which is good. I do think they gave a lot of perspective of the era when I was on the show and kind of what their interpretation of Tyra is, which I thought was very harsh, especially if they don't really know her that way. I think it's all just assumption. And I think it was also interesting for me from the Netflix stock hearing other contestants and other winners and their stories and what they had gone through, and I think a lot of people vacillate with how positive it was and how negative it was. It's almost like we were in a cult. So yeah, so I feel like sometimes they go back to kind of apologize to the main you know, the main cult leader, and then they go back and they said no, but really it wasn't that. 00:55:33 Speaker 2: I don't know. 00:55:34 Speaker 3: It's a very strange dynamic seeing the contestants and then them kind of shying away from their truth and then well. 00:55:40 Speaker 1: It's also like you also said that, like you went into debt just afterwards, it would in my mind, I'm thinking, Okay, if I won that show and I went into a bunch of debt and then there was an opportunity to kind of kiss the ring, maybe get a deal, maybe get a contract, Like it makes sense why people are maybe sucking up to trying to get some of their own thing going with the network. Like I understand it, right, the a lot of these women have been put into a position of vulnerability just by virtue of being on that show. People don't want to work with them maybe or they're already kind of you know, we're part of reality TV. I think it's it's interesting culturally to watch what's happening, right, I mean, and many of the girls came from a place of poverty before the show, right, and they went on TV, got all this attention and were lowered back into their community without any support systems. 00:56:35 Speaker 3: Sure, and I think a big part I felt a lot of shame with the debt, partly because you know, my father was a physician in my hometown and my mother and they had their practice. I didn't want the stigma of like having a daughter who you know, they were so proud of, and you know, being in the small town and the way people talk, you know, and coming back with a tale between my leg I mean, I was like, I'm going to work the hell out of this debt. And I did because I wanted. I want to let my parents down if they wanted me to come home. They my mother had had enough of the whole setup. She said, they're taking advantage of you. This is ridiculous. I don't like what they're doing with you. You know, you don't see it, but we see it as your parents, you know, come home. 00:57:16 Speaker 2: They do know, Mom, Yeah. 00:57:19 Speaker 3: And she kept saying come home, and she goes, we know you're not telling us what you're really going through, and I wasn't. I was hiding it because I and I wanted to stay in the game, and I also I wanted to work, and I was so proud of the agency I was with that I just decided, you know what, YO wanna this is going to be a lesson. You're going to take this as a lesson. You're going to navigate it, and you're going to do the best you can. But I do think it derailed a little bit of my mental health, and that's why I think it was so hard on myself with my body image for sure, of. 00:57:51 Speaker 4: Course, I mean sure, because here you were in front of people who are supposed to know more than you, right because they've been in this business, and instead of it sounds to me, instead of building you up, they were sort of building you up to bring you down somehow, right, because if you were the ideas, I'm going to be this model, but they're not giving you the opportunity to work. It's almost like you were this indentured servant, you know what I mean, Like you were having to do all these things, but you couldn't, you know, make your career go forward in the way that you wanted to At the time, I did want to ask you a question. 00:58:28 Speaker 3: Sure, have you. 00:58:29 Speaker 4: Seen Tyra Banks in recent times? 00:58:33 Speaker 2: And if you did, what was that like? 00:58:35 Speaker 4: And if you haven't seen her, what would you like her to know about you or what would you like to say to her? 00:58:40 Speaker 1: Have you seen her since you won? 00:58:42 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I saw her a bunch since I won. I'm very different in the sense that, gosh, how do I say this? She travels with the team, and I get very uncomfortable with people who have entourages. It's something that I've had to work through with I know I had to sign an NDA, so I can't say who. But that's something for me I find very uncomfortable to be around. And you know, I did get invited to go on her talk show several times, and you know I was paid then to go on to But you know, I just take it for what it is. And I think a big part of it is she's not my buddy. She's not someone I'm going to pick up the phone and you know, talk about what we're making for dinner tonight. I'm not really in awe of her, I think the way a lot of people are. I have other people that I look up to, and I think, of course for her, it's just, you know, she's an extension of a part of my life. Who knows, maybe if I'm down in the land down Under, if I see her, I'll say hello, But you know, I don't know what. 00:59:47 Speaker 1: Okay, So you went through this whole experience. You now there are these documentaries. What as you reflect on this part of your life, what is your takeaway? 00:59:57 Speaker 3: Like? 00:59:57 Speaker 1: What are you sort of saying to yourself and to people who are maybe watching these documentaries formulating their own opinions, like what do you want them to know? 01:00:05 Speaker 3: I think we've done a good job just spelling kind of the myth of what it is to be the winner and what really happened, and just the economics of what goes in. I mean, I can't really assume what people are going to walk away with because I feel like if I try to get into their heads, and I did do that. After the doc I was like, I'm going to fight these people online and I'm going to and then I thought, you, but I'm going to turn into into them. I want to, Yeah, and I'm like you're like. 01:00:31 Speaker 1: Oh, so then I. 01:00:32 Speaker 3: Come to you on TikTok and I laugh and I'm like, I don't you know. I felt like I stopped replying because it just became where you would see so much positive and then it would be people just attacking and going for it, and I'm like, where's all this emotion coming from. But I will say there is a rumor that there is PR crisis in the mix. 01:00:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I would be shocked if there weren't PR. 01:00:58 Speaker 2: So sometimes I. 01:00:59 Speaker 3: Look at a comment, I'm like, who is this bot? 01:01:02 Speaker 2: What is bot? 01:01:02 Speaker 3: What you bought? 01:01:03 Speaker 1: Was this? 01:01:03 Speaker 4: You know? 01:01:04 Speaker 1: I mean because like you said, like the house always wins, right, and this is one hundred and fifty country franchise. This isn't just Tyra. This is a machine, right that we're talking about. So I mean, there's there are people freaking out in a conference room somewhere as we speak. I'm sure, of. 01:01:22 Speaker 2: Course, of course. 01:01:24 Speaker 4: I mean, I think that the idea was to sort of try and explain away what had happened on the show. But now here is this other documentary that is giving what happened on the show from the perspective of the people who were in the trenches. 01:01:40 Speaker 1: Right, And I like what you've done. Honestly, I've been watching how you've handled these interviews and how you approach it. A lot of people are, like you said, giving their opinions and judgments of the situation. You have always been really matter of fact of just the facts. You're like, this is what happened. Here are the words. What you do with it is up to you, which I appreciate because there are there's a lot of opinions hopping in the cop oh gosh, and. 01:02:11 Speaker 3: They're so emotional, I feel, And I wanted to come from a very calm, matter of fact place, and I think that's why it was one of the main voices that Glass Entertainment said. And I said, do I come across complaining? And I said, no, You're just very matter of fact. I said, I just wanted to be matter of fact. I just wanted to cut through the fantasy and give the audience. I mean, the title is America, right, so don't they have a right to know what really happens after you come off of a show like that? 01:02:39 Speaker 4: Like? 01:02:39 Speaker 3: And I think a big part of the aggression, I think is because they I think when you disclose or you share something that is uncomfortable from what they believed in their mind, or what they thought what they witnessed watching on TV, or their perception of what they think the fashion industry is really like. And a lot of these people comment and haven't ever even experienced the business of being a fashion I feel that really is what triggers them, because they don't want to look foolish. They don't want to be like, oh, you're making me look stupid. I have this belief in my mind of how it was supposed to be, and now you're putting the little pin in that balloon. And that's that's what I take away from everything. 01:03:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, is there anything that you're working on right now you would like the listeners to know about. I think they can check out the documentary if they haven't already anything else you want people to pay attention to it as we're working. 01:03:34 Speaker 3: Well, I'm still I do. I do a lot of traveling workshops and I'm also affiliate now TikTok so I I'm with the Russell Hartley team. So amazing learning the whole world of TikTok. I know you're you're far more advanced than I am. 01:03:48 Speaker 2: So Michael is prolific and TikTok. 01:03:50 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:03:50 Speaker 3: I think it's amazing because you just do it so organically and I really in my head and you're like, oh, I love listening to you. 01:03:59 Speaker 1: Thank you. You're very People asked me that a lot. They're like, how do you have time to like curate your tiktoks? And I'm like, honey, I'm not curating it. It is filmed in the bathroom, like it is like I'm running out a corner, I'm doing this and doing that, and I really am just so switching on the camera. So thank you. That's the kind of you. 01:04:16 Speaker 3: Yeah, how did you choose immigration law? 01:04:19 Speaker 1: It really chose me. I mean I've been practicing. I practiced criminal law. I've been at law firms before, but once I kind of got one client and then it really snowballed from there and there really is a huge demand for immigration law for lawyers who know how to do that work. So once you kind of specialized and kind of get to know it, it gets I love it. You just get really busy really quickly, and next thing you know, you're not working on those contracts or real estate deals anymore. 01:04:48 Speaker 2: I will tell you that. 01:04:49 Speaker 4: I remember when Michael started doing immigration law and we remember he was like, he's like, you know, I feel like I need to do something to help somebody. I was like, go ahead and do that, and I remember him telling about it, and you know, I think one of the things about Michael is like he comes. Somebody was asking me about this. Is he really that way all the time? The way that you see him on TikTok? And I was like, yes, but Michael is very thoughtful and he he does really think about what can he do to help somebody do something. So it's been as his friend, it's been really nice to sort of watch him turn into this this person over here. 01:05:26 Speaker 1: It's true. 01:05:27 Speaker 2: It's true. 01:05:27 Speaker 4: I wouldn't say if it wasn't true, but like that's I think people don't know that about Michael's Like he one day was just like I need to do something to help somebody. And it's sort of like one I think it was like one case. 01:05:36 Speaker 1: It was one case. So it was that kids like, oh that kid y. I had a kid who was just like the coolest kid ever and I love him so much. 01:05:45 Speaker 2: And I was like, and now he's almost a grown man. 01:05:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love that. 01:05:50 Speaker 2: No, it's great, it's wonderful. 01:05:52 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'm so glad we got to chat with you. 01:05:55 Speaker 3: I know, I hope you got the right answers. 01:05:57 Speaker 4: No, yeah, the right answers are whatever your truth is, Joanna. 01:06:02 Speaker 2: Do you want to give us your socials? 01:06:04 Speaker 7: Oh? 01:06:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. 01:06:06 Speaker 3: So I'm on Instagram I'm Yomania and that's y O M A N I A. And then on TikTok I'm yo Mania I think zero two. 01:06:18 Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much for joining us. 01:06:20 Speaker 2: Thank you, takod care. It's nice to meet you. 01:06:22 Speaker 3: Bye bye, take care, bye bye. 01:06:25 Speaker 1: Let's get into tails from the DMS. We've got some incredible dms. 01:06:29 Speaker 2: Incredible, incredible, incredible people. 01:06:31 Speaker 1: Y'all are absolutely y'all said, you know what, hold my drink. I'm going to pop a handstand and to work in Michael's DMS. The things y'all are sending me, and. 01:06:43 Speaker 2: Let me just say, I love it so much. I was going to say, he oh my god, he's living for it. 01:06:49 Speaker 1: I'm on the spin bike laughing. I'm like looking at the things, I'm like, you're killing me. Y'all are killing me. 01:06:57 Speaker 4: Anyway, Before we get into the DM's friends, what do I always say. While Michael is a lawyer, he is not your lawyer. 01:07:04 Speaker 2: Get your own. 01:07:05 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, so first of all, I just have to jump in really quick with this one. 01:07:10 Speaker 2: Jump in. 01:07:12 Speaker 1: Hey, Michael, I hope you see this message. 01:07:14 Speaker 6: Oh I saw this. 01:07:16 Speaker 2: Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. 01:07:18 Speaker 1: Guess what I saw it. I'm one of those annoying cancer survivors that push trauma on others. All right, we're really happy you survive self awareness. Yes, and also yeah, I really need you to get the evil spot on your forehead checked. 01:07:35 Speaker 5: Okay, that's what they say, that's what just a I know you're smart and kept it together, but it reminds me of a tiny spot of cancer I had to have removed. 01:07:48 Speaker 1: Keep being who you are. But can you get this looked at? Please? You going to so thank you for head talk, for getting in my DMS. 01:07:57 Speaker 2: Where is this little spot right there? 01:07:58 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, it's this getting close, get it on my close because we can. We'll actually do like a right to left reading of my forehead like a palm because over here and I will do it. So this is it. This is a broken blood vessel that I had checked in January, and like this is to clear the record. 01:08:20 Speaker 2: Our doctor, our doctor, our share. 01:08:22 Speaker 1: We go to the same dermatologists. I love him so much, and we keep each other accountable. So like, thank you for messaging me this. This is a good PSA reminder. It's always better to have like a cancer prevention girly bestie where you hold each other accountable. So like I have a friend. He and I go to the boy doctor and we remind each other to just go get boy stuff checked. Okay, and that's all I'll say. Okay, it's boy. 01:08:47 Speaker 2: Part related like girl stuff. 01:08:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like do you have a girlfriend where you're like, hey, did you get your. 01:08:53 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm the most annoying person in my friend group, Like you got to get your boobs checked? 01:08:58 Speaker 2: You got to go to the collegist. 01:09:00 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know what. The pap smear is named after doctor Papa Nicolau or no, doctor Papadopoulos. Yeah, Pa P. It started so they didn't want to do his whole name smear, so they just stood p A p. 01:09:16 Speaker 2: How do you know that this is the name He. 01:09:18 Speaker 1: Was, I know his cousin. 01:09:23 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah listen, and I was like his flex. 01:09:27 Speaker 1: It's like that was like his flex, get his uncle invented the pas. I was like, okay, here's anyway. So this is a broken blood vessel and this over here you might have seen last week I scratched my head with my bike helmet. 01:09:41 Speaker 2: Okay, so so he's okay from the down, we're not sure. 01:09:47 Speaker 4: So we are doing reviews, which we love. Thank you so much for doing that. It actually really doesn't mean a lot to us, and we're going to read them because you guys are hysterical. 01:09:56 Speaker 2: Here's one. 01:09:59 Speaker 4: I kind of stumbled into listening to this podcast, but I'm so glad that I did. Not only is it incredibly informative in these wild times, but the host have such an amazing and comedic chemistry, like so good it almost makes me want to crawl out of my introverted shell and find friends. Almost but until that moment a bravery bravery happens, it is truly enjoyable to kick back, enjoy their banter, and learn something along the way. 01:10:25 Speaker 2: Highly recommend. Thank you. That's so we appreciate that. Yeah, I like it inside personally, so I'm not mad at you for staying inside. 01:10:35 Speaker 1: You like it inside, okay, stay inside? 01:10:39 Speaker 2: I do like it inside. Yeah, I do you know that I like it inside. 01:10:42 Speaker 1: I'm out in these streets, but I'm also in the house. 01:10:44 Speaker 2: No, I'm definitely more in the house. 01:10:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, unless it's an estate sale, which else I want. 01:10:50 Speaker 2: You in the state sale. This weekend, I did slut. Oh my god. 01:10:55 Speaker 4: I think the reason why I like it inside is because gen X was always outside and no one gave a shit, and nobody ever knew. 01:11:04 Speaker 1: Where we were till the street lights come home, come on. That's when you're doing That's. 01:11:07 Speaker 2: When you have to be home. So I like it inside. 01:11:11 Speaker 6: Hey, Michael, Melissa, Hi, I was looking for some help because I was summoned for federal jury service. It's a twelve week case from May eleventh to July thirty first, and if I'm chosen, I'd be still questioned for the duration of the trial. Part of me is like super excited for this, and I kind of want to be chosen because this is such a cool side quest and like it'll feel like summer camp, no phones, and like I'm living for this, like courtroom drama and tea. But I'm really worried about paying my rent for the duration of the time i'd be serving, especially because it's over. 01:11:45 Speaker 2: Two full months. 01:11:47 Speaker 6: I work two part time jobs and they don't pay for jury service time, and especially not for a case that's so long. I'm also turning twenty five and like, I only have so many hot girl summers left, and I don't want to waste a whole pride month when I'm single. Yeah, So I just want to advice on how you think I should go forward because I filled out an excuse to be dismissed and they still said I'm considered eligible. I was also curious of what you think the case may be. My friends and I thought that it could be the Rob Reiner case. But we were wondering if you had like any inside tea of what's happening in California federal courts soon. 01:12:25 Speaker 1: Oh she's in California, I'd say, okay, okay, So I don't think it's the Rob Rhiner case because it's July thirty. First. I don't think he'll go on trial for at least another year or two. Like that's way too soon, am I Just the first response Nick Reiner, Oh, yes, the Rhiner case. Yes, Oh my god. And I keep mixing up that name and I did it on TikTok and everyone in the comments was like, how dare you? 01:12:45 Speaker 2: Rob was the dead? 01:12:47 Speaker 1: Yes? 01:12:47 Speaker 2: Nick was the Sun is the sun? 01:12:49 Speaker 1: And truly how darem? Yes? I should have victims' names right Anyway, I think that's too soon. I love how mess you are though, and it really makes my hurt saying that, like you are someone who's fallen this show and listening and sending in your message because you sound adorable. So I'm so excited fan of the pod. The the fact that you're thinking about the number of hawk Girl summers you've got left that is dedication to the whole life. I'm so proud of you because the hawt Girl summers, you only got so many, and it's what you do with them that can. 01:13:23 Speaker 4: I don't know that hot Girl summer means that she's dedicated to whnus. 01:13:27 Speaker 2: I think that. 01:13:28 Speaker 4: It's so easy and we're not shaming anybody, but hot girl is not equal. 01:13:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. You could do like a hawk Girl in like a bonnet or a or a. 01:13:38 Speaker 2: Habit hat girl is like Some might say mind. 01:13:41 Speaker 1: Some might say Whoopy Goldberg and the Sister Act and Sister Act two back in the Habit that was a her Hawk Girl summer. 01:13:47 Speaker 2: Maybe so you never know where is that. 01:13:49 Speaker 1: If you are in the sisterhood, you can just let us know in the comments. But I do want to talk a little bit about federal jury service because you don't get paid, okay, you get paid fifty dollars a day. 01:14:01 Speaker 4: Okay, And let me just say as like I have my stepdaughter as your age and as feeling like I'm going to be your bonus mom as well. You already said that you're working two part jobs, two part time jobs, which I think is sort of what you need to do in order to keep yourself alive. I don't know that your desire for messiness is sort of the way to go this time around. Yeah, I think that once a messy girl, deep down, always a messy girl. There will be time in the future when you are establishing your career where you can afford to be off for twelve months. 01:14:34 Speaker 1: For sure, it won't be fun. You're going to get called to jury duty a bunch in your life, and the cases are I mean, if you're going to trial, it's usually because there's like a real critical issue that needs to get litigated. Ninety something percent a case is settle. So the fact that you're going to get called and eventually serve on a jury. It's almost always going to be messy, Tea. You'll write that, tell all, and just wait until you've got a stable gig and you can be a salaried employee who takes a week off for jury duty and they cover your ass. 01:15:05 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:15:05 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:15:05 Speaker 1: The only other thing I want to say about jury duty is just because you qualify for jury duty and they're telling you you're qualifying, doesn't mean you're seated on a jury. You got about five more steps before that happens. So you got to go the case actually has to go to trial. You got to sit there and wait, they have to interview you. They've got it, they've got peremptory strikes. There's so many things that happen where you can explain and articulate. You're working two part time jobs. You cannot be sequestered for twelve weeks. You're going to be on skid row on the breadline. Yeah, so you'll have an opportunity to tell a judge and tell the lawyers and hopefully likely get out of jury duty. 01:15:41 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:15:43 Speaker 4: Truly doesn't sound like you can afford to do this right now. And as far as things being like messy and fun. I was on a federal jury duty once and it wasn't fun at all and it was actually really boring. 01:15:56 Speaker 1: Oh I got called for one and it was a building bricks for flying every were killing people. 01:16:01 Speaker 2: No, this is the one that I got in. Was just like this guy tried to rob a. 01:16:07 Speaker 4: Parking garage and he took the attendant and he put the attendant in the trunk of the car that he stole and drove him across state lines. 01:16:16 Speaker 2: And that's why it was. 01:16:17 Speaker 1: Federal Melissa, that is so interesting. 01:16:20 Speaker 2: It wasn't I mean, it wasn't it. I mean it wasn't. No, it wasn't. 01:16:25 Speaker 1: You were like some guy got a free Uber, right, No, I mean it was. 01:16:29 Speaker 2: It was. 01:16:29 Speaker 4: It was. 01:16:33 Speaker 2: It was the nine days before Uber. But it just took forever, and I remember thinking, I really thought it was gonna be more exciting, like. 01:16:41 Speaker 7: That's so then that was because it was your hot girl summer you were missing out on to deal with this guy's trial. 01:16:48 Speaker 3: I know. 01:16:48 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you so much for writing them. Please keep sending. You truly bring me so much joy and entertainment throughout my day. When I take a little, a little brief recess from court and read your damn so thank you so much. This is Brief Recess. We'll see you next week or in court. 01:17:03 Speaker 2: You won't see me in court. 01:17:04 Speaker 1: Unless she's on your jury. 01:17:06 Speaker 2: You don't want that. 01:17:10 Speaker 1: This has been an Exactly Right production recorded at iHeart Studios, hosted by Me, Michael Foot. 01:17:16 Speaker 2: And Me Melissa Albranch. Our producer is CJ. Ferroni. 01:17:19 Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci. 01:17:21 Speaker 4: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patriakottner. 01:17:26 Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Tom Brifogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue Manessa Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono. 01:17:32 Speaker 4: Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark and Danielle Kramer. 01:17:37 Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot and. 01:17:42 Speaker 4: I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Albranch. 01:17:45 Speaker 1: Got legal questions, reach out at Brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia dot com. Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and of course we're a podcast with video. Search for Brief Recess on YouTube

From Runway to Reality Check: The ANTM Exposé (w. Cycle 2 winner Yoanna Margaret)

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