Kate’s Got That Gravitational Pull

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Speaker 1: What's up bouch a Happy Hour. I'm one of your hosts, Becky Kouffrin, and I'm Michelle Young, and we are back with y'all this week to talk obviously about Bachelor in Paradise and the two crazy episodes we saw. I know it's getting messy, but this week it's been crazy in Paradise with the og girls returning to the beach, and we're gonna be talking with Kate all about the aftermath. Yeah, I'm actually very looking forward to having Kate on to get her scoop on her new relationship with Logan and everything that went down between her and Cheney. But first, before that, Michelle, let's catch up. You had a very busy week this past week. You've been traveling all over the place. But one highlight that we have to talk about is you were just in Nashville and you happened to run into one of my other favorite women on the Senate, which is my mom. Even so crazy, so wild. And that's why my voice is like this is because I've been screaming the country music all weekend. I didn't even know that I knew the words to them many songs, but I think when the music is so loud. You have to like talk so loud anyways, so excuse excuse the raspy voice, but yeah, I think Becky, you and I briefly spoke about that I was going to be in Nashville and You're like, oh my gosh, like, what are the odds? My mom's actually there right now. And legitimately, like a few hours later, we walked into one bar on Broadway, and Broadway is huge for anyone like who has been there, they know, but like for those who haven't, thousands, yeah, it's intense, like there are so many different bars, it is packed. It's like, I don't know, it's crazy. It's crazy. In the first part that I walk into, each of these bars tend to have like different levels, so many different bands playing exactly. So I we happened to walk into Whiskey Row and it was like we went upstairs and this lady woman comes walking up to me and she's like, oh my god, I'm too good friend, And it like took me a second to put the words together because the band was playing, and I was like, oh my god, it was just what are the odds? And then we got to FaceTime Becca you that was so fun I knew the second year facetiming me, I just had a feeling. I was like, she ran into my mom, mom, and Jill's gonna be on this other line with her, and it's it's funny because like she wasn't even supposed to go on this trip to begin with. Like it was like she went with a group of friends, but she wasn't originally planning on going. Last minute booked her flight left and and she was there because she I think was by herself at that point because all of her friends flew out earlier. Right she she was there, No, she there were like four of them with her. Oh she was so with people. Okay, yeah, so she that was like that was like their last place they were going before they went back to the airport to fly back to Minnesota. And turning up the fact that you two saw each other, I'm like, oh my god, she probably, if I'm being honest, would have extended her trip and extra time. I think she had so much fun and it was so excited. She was so like Michelle and my mom face timed me and we were screenshotting photos of each other. Michelle, the one that you sent me back. I just had so much food in my teeth, And I was like, if she posted it, oh my god, don't you dare. I was like, don't look. I need to go back and look at that photo that I that you or that you posted but that I sent to you because I didn't I didn't see that. But then the one that you posted is not any better. So you're looking at my mom, No, I look like I'm already and I'm like, I don't even had to drink yet, like first bar and didn't you can get a drink yet? Well, that was honestly one of the highlights of my week. I'm so happy you two finally met and and our moms are like texting and talking and like already planned and meeting each other, and so the fact that you ran into her in a completely different stage. Just your mom was like, she was like, I need, like we all need to plan something so that the four of us can get together. Are you coming home for Thanksgiving? We got something? Okay, we should we should get something on the calendar for that, but that she was saying that, and she's like, we just all for me to hang out just so then and then met, so then me and your mom can just hang out. I was like, you can, you can text my mom and go hang out with her before we all forget there. Yeah, I love it. I just like love the crazy friendships that for like, well beyond this show. But that was so fun seeing you. But how how are you doing? Becca Phillis? And I know that when um we FaceTime to you, even Thomas were in the car. What was your weekend? Like, Oh my gosh, this weekend was so incredible. Thomas and I took a little road trip to one of our favorite tones and I was gonna say in California, but probably in this country, and we went up to oh High, which it's just a special place to us. It's it's like an hour and a half maybe northeast of LA but we've been there a couple of times and we're just obsessed. It's so quaint, it's so charming. It was just good to get away from the city for a while and just like bike around and go to the cute bookshops there and grab coffee and just chill. And it was so wonderful that we I hate to even say this because we are still in the midst of home renovations at the place we just bought in San Diego, but we've been looking into getting like a second little spot in oh Hi, which will I will say this, it will not happen anytime soon. It's like on our ten year mark, like ten year goal of getting a little spot there that probably we would I would assume rent out on Airbnb and then just go there whenever we want to get away, kind of like a you know, like a late cabin in Minnesota, what you would do when you need to get away in the summers. But yeah, it was so nice. We like, we didn't really have a game plan. We just wanted to wander and explore and do whatever. So it was it was lovely. Um. I will say though, there was one damper of the weekend, and Thomas showed a few tears over the Padres losing the playoffs. Unfortunately we are not going to the World Series this year, so he was he was a little bummed out, but that's okay because you know, if there's always next year. Everyone well, so when they lost the like their final game, he did come into the house and he just like face planeted into the bed and then would not move his head for like a good five minutes and so I'm like trying to pull his face off to be like Arthur tears, there is it wet. M Thomas is not really a crier. I've maybe seen him cry a handful of time, like not even a handful, maybe three times, and one was over the passing of his dog, which I was a complete disaster too, so I totally understand that. But he has cried over sports the other two times, and I'm like, seriously, dude, like over sports, but hey, everyone has invested, you know, he has invested. So yeah, it was. It was overall a great weekend. And let's get into what we are here for. Really the past two episodes that we saw before we bring Kate on, she was clearly part of some of the drama and a very big love triangle. So what were your overall thoughts this week? You know, I'm starting to really realize when I think it was the first time when we were at at the tell all, when you know, the Paradise Crew came on and kind of teased this season of like this is things that you've not seen before. It gets really messy. I'm starting to like really like, oh, this is what they're talking about. And I felt so bad for Rick and Ohlu though, just like I don't know it came in and just I definitely think they had something else in mind that they were hoping for for sure. And I've never met Olu. I do know rig he was on tour with me and he's such a sweetheart. I feel like they got the short end of the stick in this regard, but again, it's kind of the name of the game, where you know, some people hit it off with certain men and vice versa, and if you don't feel it, like you know, it dont makes sense to necessarily. I mean, maybe if they would have been on the beach, they would have met other women, but who knows, There's always next year for those those two if they're still single. So somebody else we have to talk about is Jill. She has had a big presence on this season so far, but obviously she now left the beach after finding out Jacob wasn't totally feeling it with her. What were your thoughts on that goodbye and her leaving? I mean, I felt like Jacob handled it as best as somebody could like It seemed like he ended it in a very respectful manner. It's hard because it's like on the show, breakups are going to be dramatic. It's like it's not going to come across like pleasant, right, and it's like you can only just like sometimes honesty hurts. So that was I mean, there was a lot of heartbreak, for sure, I could see with Jill. But I also couldn't help but laugh when she was in like the doing her little interview on the way home in the car and she's crying. She's like, I'm crying over a lift driver. I'm crying over somebody who sold their couch for cash. Like God's like, oh my god. I was like, don't throw under the bus like that. He would be a lovely lift driver. I would have such a good drive with him. I want to touch on Jacob really quick, because he was somebody that we talked about on Gabby and Rachel's season, especially like the day that he left. Remember he rubbed us the wrong way and he said something very off putting to Gabby and I called him out on the podcast about it. But I will say Jacob is actually somebody who has pleasantly surprised me. I think he's entertaining. He seems to get along with most everyone on the Beach so far, but I feel like he is somebody who actually like puts more thought into what he wants to say. At this point, like this second time around, being on this platform where so many people are going to be watching him, I think he's much more cognizant of like his conversations and how he comes across, which I really appreciate. I think he's grown since the last time we saw him on Gabby and Rachel's season, and like I think, I kind of like Jacob now he has grown on me. And you know, starting out, I wasn't too sure about him. I kind of wrought him off, But I think that the way that he's now kind of handling himselves with conflict during confrontation, like with the letdowns with Kate and having to let Jill go, I think he handled it the best way possible and seemed very mature. This entire week, exactly one hundred percent agree that he. I'm changing with him, and it's been nice because it seems genuine It doesn't seem like he's putting on a facade to be liked. It seems like he genuinely doesn't want to hurt people with his words and how he's communicating, so he's changed. But what I will say is that there is one person who we're sure has a lot to say about Jacob, and that is our guest today, Kate. Should we bring her? Yes? I think so. We have so many burning questions for her, so let's just get into it with her, all right. Well, Kate, welcome too, Happy hour. This is your first time here because we didn't have you on during your time on Clayton season, so welcome. How are you doing after now filming two seasons? Thank you guys so much for having me. Can I just say this is my dream girl chat like embodied here for it be able to be talking to you guys. Honestly, I feel really good. It's it's so funny to kind of be here again, especially like on the Heels of Clayton season, which I realized just the other day was also airing this year, and its like it's been ten years, you know, since all that happened. But I kind of put that in perspective is definitely like mind boggling, But I feel really good, honestly good. Are you still working, like in real estate? Did you go back once? You? Like return home? Is everything kind of back to normal, except for like when you turn on the TV or maybe leave your house. Yeah, and I get on the internet. It's not normal anymore. But work is going really well. I'm definitely someone who if I'm feeling anxious or stressed, I'll throw myself into my job, so you know, for better or worse. That's definitely been something that I've been able to kind of lean on. So work is going really well. Still selling real estate marks still hot, so everything is good on the workfront. If anyone needs a real in La, riach out to Kate. Yes, my gosh, Kate. So I met you in person once, and this was a couple of months ago during The Bachelor Live on stage when we were actually in La And at that point you and Genevieve came out on stage and we had talked about you potentially going onto Paradise. And I think at that point, obviously you didn't know if it was a first sure thing, but you were open to the idea. So now, looking back, are you happy you said yes to that opportunity. I like view this whole experience as such a net positive. I was really hoping that I would be selected to go down to the beach. I didn't want to get my hopes too too up, but that's honestly kind of impossible. So whenever we met, I was definitely trying to play it cool, but internally I was like screaming, you know, like I really want to know. I really hope this means that, like you know, I hope this is foreshadowing, like for a good thing for me, that I'll be able to get down there, And I did. I met positive. I love that. So that real estate academic language of vocabulary, I love it. I love it. But so we are here to talk paradise. So we are going to get into the details. And at this point on the show, you've been there for only two weeks, but like it seems like forever. It seems like you've already really made your mark. How did you feel at the beginning, when you're walking into a group of guys who may have already formed relationships. What was going through your head at that point? It did feel I mean, even though it's been two weeks, it felt like I lived many lives in that time. So, you know, kind of being able to watch it back has definitely been a trip. But I was nervous obviously to go into a situation where I knew that connections had already been formed, and on top of that, like an added layer, connections were formed with girls who I was friends with and girls from Clayton season. So you know, there was a lot of kind of complicated, conflicting emotions behind it all, But I think like the underlying current was I just felt so fortunate and happy to be there, and I was willing to kind of like lean in and get swept away by that current and just allow myself to like get the full experience walking in the moment that you did, right, because it was vastly different from just like walking down through the gates of Paradise and meeting everyone you want to have five women? Did you have any idea that you were going to walk into this group of people who are already coupled up and have them did, Like, were you aware of this switcher rward? Were you just like, I'm just gonna hang out with everyone on the beach. You had no idea what you were walking into that day? Yeah, it was completely unclear to me. I was flying blind going down in that manner. But I'm honestly really grateful that I did I think being able to kind of maneuver that experience with four other girls who were also in the same boat, as it felt like there was like almost a release of pressure because it's not just me storming down the stairs like trying to you know, home wreck somebody's relationship, but it's more like, you know, I have the other women to kind of lean on and to have a shared experience with. And so I felt still nervous, obviously, but kind of more empowered to be able to be going through that like with you know, the other girls kind of by my side and us all having a shared experience. Had you known like who you know from even from Clayton's season, like the old girls and new girls. Were you really close with any of them? Did you know which girls were going to be at Paradise? And once you got there and saw that they're not, they're there, but they're not there, Like what was your mentality? Did that change anything for you? So I definitely got way closer to the women of Clayton's season than Clayton himself, obviously, and so we had all kind of kept in touch, and for the most part, I had a pretty good idea of who was going to be down there. I think what threw me off was like seeing them, you know, sitting next to their respective men and like kind of like putting the pieces together of like okay, like you know, I see Jenevieve and Aaron sitting there, and like you kind of see me go talk to him first, because he felt like a safe space, because it was like, okay, like I can ask him to kind of give me a lay of the land for you know, everybody else's connection. But it was also interesting to see who had left, you know, who I thought was going to be there and then it turns out they were gone, Sierra Hunter, you know, like kind of peeling my eyes and seeing me more here they're not, oh my god, what happened? You know. It's kind of a letdown when you go and you think like all of your friends are going to be there and then they've already got the boot and you're just like, damn, I wanted a summer with ya all together. Yes, okay, So you're like I would say the strongest immediate connection was with Jacob and with him like, what was it fresh out the gate? Was it more like the physical side of things or did you and Jacob happened to connect more emotionally, and we just didn't get the chance to see that. So I think what like made Jacob stand out from the rest is that he pursued me. He was very like on top of things, you know, quite literally, but like he kind of made it known how he felt and he was taking action, whereas I think a lot of the other guys were a bit more passive and we're just kind of sitting back, and so he was kind of the first one that really made a move on me, and so you know, I felt like that was something that I could explore. But you know, there's also still a lot of kind of conflicting, swirling like emotions. You know. If they have to say though that the scene in the hot of So Funny did really actually say the like pledge of allegiance? First of all, that hot to have seene was so humbling. I'm pretty sure or like my granny and my ancestors all rolled over in their graves when that was happening. I literally like am traumatized from that. But um, yeah, that one was that was that was tough to watch. But like he's just such a he has such a like sweet disposition and is like such a positive guy and easy to kind of laugh with. Like being around him wasn't something that like felt like it took a lot of work, um, and so I enjoyed kind of getting to know him in that way. Okay, so we're going to get into everything with Logan that happens eventually. But like that first day, the initial group of women leave your left with their men, was there anyone that well, this is a two part question. Was there anyone out of the group of men that were there that you, like I really wanted to explore something with, that just had something stronger with somebody else? And part two of that question is is there anyone that you just like really wished would have been on the beach when you were down there, that you really wanted to meet your number one guy? So I think first part of the question. When I got down there, I definitely didn't have my eye on Jacob at all. I was honestly wondering where Michael A was because he was on a date with Danielle. Oh that's right, he was gone, yeah, yeah, Because I was like, wait, what about him? You know? And then I also, you know, when you kind of come across someone and you kind of feel that instant like gravitational pull. You can't really explain it. It It doesn't really make sense. Maybe that's chemistry, maybe it's pheromones. Who knows. I felt that way towards Logan m Yeah, and just like talking and laughing and just being like, wait, what about this guy? You know? But things moved Soka. But it's like, you know, and Sarah takes him on a date and I'm like, oh no, is that window closed? You know, just it is a jungle dang. Okay, well we'll get into all that too, Okay. I am super curious though, So okay, so well yeah, we'll definitely get into your connection. I can't even see it in your face right now, still, like she's just just a little bit got a little bit. Okay. So you and Jacob hit it off like really really quickly, and it you guys had fun together. It seemed like relaxing. It seemed like kind of you know, like a safe space. But it also seemed like you were holding back a little bit, like are we hitting it on the mark? What was going on there? Yeah? I mean holding back a little bit is almost like like um, that's the word like I was holding back a lot iltum, and the majority of that hesitation was my friendship with Jill. You know, I feel like I talked a big game in my interviews and my itms, and you know, I was being sassy and funny, but the reality is I was super conflicted and really in my head about her and about what that would mean for our friendship, how it would come across, you know, like I was kind of juggling this notion of like, you know, yes, I'm here on the beach and I want to pursue people who are pursuing me, and I want to explore and I want to you know, it feels good to be wanted and to be able to step into that space and enjoy you know, that feeling. But then kind of the other side of that, the shadow side is like I am, you know, I have a lot of respect for Jill, and I feel a deep sense of loyalty to her as a friend. So you know, what does this mean for me? And how does this translate for me? And how do I move forward? So I definitely spent a lot of time, you know, in my head about that, and also talking to anybody who would listen about that as well. Do you think I had Jill not been Obviously she wasn't like physically in the picture at that point, But if she wasn't in the picture and had some sort of initial relationship with Jacob, do you think there would have been any serious potential for the both of you long term? You know, it's hard to say, because I think, on the one hand, like you know, that was kind of that permeated the whole experience with him was you know, my friendship with her and how she would feel and what she would think. But I think, you know, trying to imagine her not involved in that, I still don't think Jacob and I would have made it, you know, through the long haul. I think he's a wonderful guy. I think we're in different places in our lives, and that's no fault of his. He can't help where he's at, But I also can't help where I'm at. And I think, you know, I have different needs and you know, different things that like I am kind of focusing on, and I think that ultimately we would have gone our separate ways. Would it have lasted a little longer? Yeah, I think so, But you know, it happened the way it happened, and I'm glad that it did. Okay, Well, so this goes down plot twist. There's always a plot twist, as maybe than a plataus. At this point, we're just it's just expected, right, Yeah, we all thought that you and Jacob were going to cruise in the next Rose ceremony together. But then you shoot your shot with Logan and then your feelings were reciprocated. Were you surprised? So I remember having that kind of initial magnetization moment with Logan and then you know, things move so quickly and everything changes so fast that I thought, you know, that window might be closed because of the Sarah of it all, also because of the chine of it all. But I remember, you know, kind of like wanting to pivot away from Jacob, feeling more are aligned with pursuing Logan. But I didn't know, you know, if that would be reciprocated, if we were on the same page about that. I got a lot of encouragement from other people on the beach, you know, if you're feeling this way, you should talk to him, and so I just kind of like through a hail Mary and like let him know how I felt. And it did you know again? It just felt so in alignment with who I am and what I want and it being reciprocated. It just like solidified for me that it was the right choice and I was willing to, you know, go through hell and high water in order to get there. Yeah. I have to say it was so entertaining, like this scene unfold, not only with like the two of you when you actually got that date card and ask Slogan, but like everyone's reactions like jaws were in the sand because nobody expected it. And I feel like, just to take viewers back in case they miss anything, did it really kick off? Like you know, we see Logan on the date with Sarah the night before he gets home that night, Like did it kind of start that night a little bit where it's like that was the initial conversation of like I still am kind of vibing with you. Let see where this could go. Obviously then trickles into the next day, but like that was the moment where you, as Michelle said, like you shot your shot and then he was kind of like, ah, I might still be open too. She's in her head, yes, everyone, So I think, like, you know, in that moment, I was willing to risk it all because you know, that's kind of what this whole container is about, being able to drop into a space where like all you can do is fully be yourself and like go for what you want and like that, you know, that felt like the right move. And so I think for him, he wasn't as like forthcoming about that, but I think it's because you know, he has a friendship with Jacob. He also had you know, a lot of cooks in the kid so to speak. He had Sarah and he had Chennai. And so when I had that conversation with him, I made sure to mention, like, look, I want to throw my hat in the ring, but it's already really crowded in there, and I want you to kind of like figure out your feelings with the two of them before I, you know, make a move here, because it's you know, you have way more going on. And I also don't like want to like cause you know, I don't want to throw the rock in the water and have the ripples affect so many people on this beach unless this is real and this is serious. So like I told him to literally sleep on it. It was like the end of the night and I'm like, I want you to go to bed and I want you to like figure this out and let's talk tomorrow morning. And when we did, it was just like it was a full body yes, and I just loved it so much. I was like, wait, say that's so exciting. Like it it felt way more like, you know, how I wanted it to feel instead of this just guilt and like, you know, not shame, but just like a lot of like worry for Jill and how she was feeling, like all that disappeared, and so it just they thought like the right move is okay. So when you're chrisy, you guys had this conversation and it was Logan that said, I don't I'm not sure the time, I'm a timeline of it. But Logan said he was like, I am not a person who goes on a lot of dates or wants to go on a lot of dates or something like that. And then like my response, I was like, dude, you you like sit in records with how many dates you've gone on me. That boy did not stop going on date is it? But yeah, so like when he said that, but what you like say, what he did say is I'd rather go on one date and start something serious with the got it? Yeah? Okay, So I wanted to, like you to clarify that if it was, because like for me, the way that I took it, I was like, okay, like she hasn't been here, Like she doesn't you know what I mean? Like is he trying to like put on a face or is he trying to clarify like I've been on a lot of dates, but I don't want that type of life connection. Yeah, I think probably both. You know, I think he was definitely trying to put his best foot forward. I knew here. I don't know what's transpired in the time before I got here. You know, all I know is what people are telling me, and so like I'm operating with the information that I'm being given. But I think he definitely wanted to put his best foot forward. I mean, you know, why wouldn't he. So I want to get into the date between you and Logan because and just comparing and I don't want to compare because you and Sarah are completely different, but comparing how he was on the date the night before with Sarah versus the date with you, it looks like he was just so much more comfortable and at ease, and it seemed so fun. Like the date that you went on could have been completely awkward, right, Like if you didn't actually feel that connection and you both weren't like as spunky and free as you were giving massages to each other, could have been weird but so painful. Like yeah, awkward truly, but you both seemed so into each other, like I said, so at ease. What was the biggest difference like for both of both you, for you in both of the connections between Logan and Jacob at that point, yeah, I need I remember Logan and I laughing later about that date and just being like if that wasn't with you, that could have taken such a left turn and it would have been like cricket noise, you know, like so weird and awkward. But I just knew our sense of humors are so aligned. That's like one of my favorite things about him is that we have a very like similar like sense of humor and the way that we joke and like the nature of the jokes, like it just all like felt like super aligned with me. And so going on that date with him and just being able to be like this could be so cringe, but we're just going to lean in and have so much fun. Like that really like solidified like my feelings for him, because it was like, oh my gosh, like this is what I want a partner. I want someone who's like gonna be able to run with the joke, someone who's going to be able to make me laugh and take situations that like could be cringe and turn them into something that's like kind of cute and funny. Like I was really here for that. If that date would have been with Jacob, you know, I still think we would have laughed a lot. It might have been you know, the different like kind of while you give him the Literally the best part of that date for me was when you were you were like trying to be all coy and flirtatious and like, you know, I take tips and all kinds of currency, and he goes crypto and is exactly He's a ripper. He builds on the joke. That's like my favorite type of humors. That's the way that I am too. So we we laugh a lot together. Did you guys talk about like on your date. I mean, obviously I'm sure you kind of knew knew going in that he had this relationship of some sorts with Shane. Did you get into more of that on your date? We didn't talk about her. I think it was honestly us compartmentalizing a little bit, you know, like out of sight, out of mind, let's just have fun on this day. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But I remember feeling really confident, like in our connection and being really sure that no matter what happened, that we would weather the storm, we would be okay. I was so just curious for you if so when typically like when you're having like those first impressions and you're like learning about somebody right Like, I don't know for me personally, there's a fine line between like sometimes cute and then it's like you can get turned off in two seconds and they give you the ick. And so hearing that he's been spending his time with Sheeney when you come in, you had some very just clear, still residual feelings just about who she was as a person and everything. When you heard that he was kind of pursuing Sheeney, were you like, what are you doing? Like did that turn you away at all? Or you like challenge accepted it, raised some eyebrows for me for sure, and it kind of felt like perhaps his judgment was questionable. Yeah, I think, you know, getting down there and hearing you know, everybody talk about like, oh, she's different and see has been really cool and it's fine. You know, there was a part of me that wanted to give him a little bit of grace because you know, maybe she is presenting a certain way and he's kind of resonating with that. But I mean, I would be lying if I said that it didn't affect, you know, my initial view of him. And you know, it was something that I kind of had to come to terms with and asked, didn't just so bother you that or just so okay? So you said that with Jacob, the one thing that you really liked is that he pursued you, and like that's what's something that was like really attractive to you to like feel seen in all those things. It seems like with your relationship with Logan, you definitely have taken the rain. So like you are the one that are you know, are professing your feelings for him first and then as this is starting to unravel and everything, like you're initiating it or you know, when this group of the original girls is about to walk back in. We know shit's going to hit the fan. You're I think you said. I love the way you said it. You're like, I'm I'm a life raft, like you can't sink me, and like I'll get us through this. And one I was like, oh my god, I love that, Like I'm gonna steal that and use that sometimes like that that means to be in some type of notebook like movie. That was great, phenomenal, phenomenal, five stars. But did you feel like you were initiating it too much and you wanted more from logan? Yes, And this becomes kind of a theme throughout and also a theme in my life. You know, Paradise kind of can be a mirror and almost a microcosm like of the world and your relationships and the way that you move through them. I can end up taking that role and steering the ship and taking the reins, and I don't love to be there all the time. I enjoy being a passenger, you know, and being a DJ and like backseat driving and all that jazz. But you know what I mean, Like I want partnership. I don't want someone that I'm having to lead. Ideally I would like someone who's ahead of me, but with this, it was just like, you know, Okay, I'm registering these things and you can probably tell but at the end of the day, like I'm willing to see how he shows up in these situations. I'm willing to see what he does when Shine comes back, Like I'm I'm clocking it for sure, Like I'm like self aware enough to understand that this can't be the dynamic forever. But is it okay for right now? Like it is it a means to an end? Can we grow from this? Because that's the other thing too. It's like, you know, I'm going to meet you where you're at, but I don't want us to stay there, like I want us to grow to pint. I want us to get it. Definitely seemed like you have the like you had the emotional intelligence you know, to be the leader in that situation anyways, but I don't want that all the time and good, yeah, you know, I get it well. And it seemed like as confident as you were with your connection after that date with Logan, was there any part of you that was a little bit nervous knowing that sne was about to come right back down and that Logan would choose to continue to pursue things with her or to still kind of play the fence with both of you, Or were you just like so confident going into that, like the moment when she returned. I was obviously apprehensive about her like return to the beach for very like obvious reasons. But never did I have a doubt that Logan would end up kind of like trying to play to both of us or juggle us, or you know, do anything other than fully choose me. I felt really really confident that we would get through that and we would be fine. But I still, you know, wasn't like excited about her to come back. Would you have given him? How much grace would you? Would you have given him, because, like you said, you give him grace with before. Would you if he you know, wasn't necessarily making that direct cut, what do you? Would you just have been like, Okay, we're completely done. Such a good question, I think, Um, I think it would have been really hard for me to continue to like give him slack. You know, I felt like I was already kind of like meeting him where he was at, and like this was his chance to kind of like show me that he was all in and serious and someone you know who because you're looking for a partner, You're looking for someone who can you can build a life with. And so I think if he would have been wavering in that, and if he would have you know, acted conflicted or torn, I don't know how much more patience I would have had for that. That would have been really difficult. But again I kind of just I just knew, like I don't know, it was like my gut, just like knew that he was going to be able to have a conversation with her and cut ties and that we would be able to move forward. Isn't that such just a reassuring feeling to know, like even if, like you said, you were apprehensive, even if there's like certain nerves underlying certain conversations that have to be had, to still have confidence in your relationship and to know like he's going to come back to you because you have the strongest connection, Like, there's something so reassuring in that, right. Yes, it was very empowering because you know, it's so hard to predict literally anything that happens down there, but like in that moment, like if you feel the sure thing, like just relish in it, even for a little bit, because everything could change, you know, literally in a few hours. But for that moment, I just remember feeling so confident and empowered, like this is how a relationship should be. We should have each other's backs through like the easy times the hard times. Okay, so Chanik comes down, Logan has that conversation with you, comes back to you. Let's get into that situation in itself, because there's a lot that went down. Were you surprised by Schne's reaction to learning about you and Logan and even like her reaction to the fact of you guys like sitting right behind her, Like did you choose to be right there? I know that there was probably a lot going on in that moment, but like, in hindsight, do you wish you would have just like popped around the corner? It definitely felt and it's it's hard for me to remember like the semantics of like the situation, but I remember like feeling feeling confident and feeling good that that that leg of the situation had like happened already, because you know, it's just like there are so many hurdles, you know, I was glad that like he made it through that one and that we were okay. It was in convenient that she was so close by, and I think, you know, if I were her, I would probably feel like, you know, we were trying to rub our nose in it a little bit, but that wasn't my intention. Like that doesn't feel good for me to like glow in that way. Like I felt happy and reassured in my connection with Logan, but you know, it sucks to come back and you know, something that you thought would be waiting for you or something that you had anticipated to be a certain way is not anymore. So like you know, I get that that's not ideal, but you know, at the same time, like I'm happy, you know the situation in itself, Like yes, you're happy, but it is kind of tough, and it would be a tough pill for Senada Swallow because she is sitting over here distraught right like the guy that she was in too show somebody else. But then you have this whole audience behind you too, that is not only watching the conversation between her and Logan, but the conversation and the kiss between you and Logan and counting down the moments to that kiss and cheering as she's on the rock, you know, contemplating what do I do next? Time? Moment I was like, this is like the show to a t, Like just everyone in one picture, cheering and crying everything. What drove you to then approach Gennay after that to have that conversation with her, like you know, Logan had already talked to her a couple of times, but then you decided to take it upon yourself. So what was that drive behind that, which like the like what you mentioned, like the show to a t, the duality of like everyone's experiences and how like on the one hand, everyone's cheering soaks. I remember that moment. I remember hugging him and looking up at the pool and everybody's like staring down, like, you know, like is it good? Happened? I give them a thumbs up, they all start cheering. That was like that, I'll carry that moment with me forever. I felt so celebrated and so just encouraged and reassured with everybody's reaction. But at the same time, like for Chennai, that sucks, you know, like that was probably like just kerosene to the fire that was already like Kenna starting to take over for her. So, you know, I get it, but it's like having you know, two those two truths can co exist, and that's like so like paradise, right, yea. There can be so many different things that are still true, but it doesn't make them any harder or easier for anybody involved, you know. Yeah, And after that, you know, after that, you get that in that reassurance and that um, you know, gratification and everything you is after feeling that, is that what kind of push you to go then check on Shannai because you were like, well, I am going to have to co exist with this person, you know, and you did walk down there to intend to work things out potentially explain just kind of explain how how that went down. So I am certainly not a person who likes into the arms of confrontation. It's actually something that I really struggle with and something that doesn't come natural to me at all. But it was one of those things where I knew that we were going to have to coexist on the same beach together, and I just wanted to squash it and let her know, like, hey, I know that that isn't easy to come down here and see that, and I'm sorry that you had to. But I'm also not afraid of you, and I'm not gonna like let you push me around or like you say things about me and your interviews that are hurtful. So I think me approaching her, I was coming from a place of like, let's find an understanding, but also like, I'm not someone that you can like try and break, so that conversation isn't something that like I normally would be comfortable doing. But I viewed it as a moment for growth and an opportunity to speak my mind and like be able to advocate for myself and ask for what I need and name you know how I'm feeling. So you know, it was tough, but I'm glad that I did it. Yeah, when in a normal world, if like say, the situation where it happened, it's not like you'd be living with the person that your now partner used stay right, Like that just doesn't happen. So I kind of understand like the thought process behind it. I don't think it panned out quite how you had hoped or expected. Obviously we don't really know where it went because we were left with the cliffhanger so we'll obviously have to find out. I will say, though, I'm just like, I think it's such a theme this season that people just keep kind of removing themselves and setting themselves home. So I, for one, was just shocked. Fundy is like, no, I'm going to stick around and like try to find another relationship. I was just like, I'm so used to Like Teddy sent herself home, Jill just removed herself. Lace removed herself, Like all these women just keep going that. I was just I think expecting. But again, we'll find out next week. Okay, despite all of the craziness that happened, though, things are looking real good for you and Logan on that beach. We're excited to see where that leads because you were like, by your smile, I think you know good things at least for a while, hopefully for beyond that. But we want to get your thoughts on everything that is going down on Paradise. So you were there the moment that Lace came back down to the beach to see if Rodney was there to have a conversation. Were you shocked that she chose to leave that night? I think for Lace, And it's so funny because that was the only interaction I had with her from AFAR, like watching her kind of unravel in front of the guys and asking where Rodney was. And you know, on the one hand, like you can't help but feel for her. That sucks, Like I think she didn't really give it the old college try during split week, and so she was really like laser focused on making things work with Rodney. But on the other side, it's like Eliza, I got to witness that connection form and it looked so natural and effortless, and everybody was really championing that and so like as you know, the role of Eliza's cheerleader, like you know, seeing Lace come down and seeing her you know, then self eliminate was sad for her. I think she probably felt a little pigeonholed and didn't know, like it, you know, what, where to go from there, and so I think it might have just been easiest to remove herself. She was probably really hurt. But on the other side, it was like, oh my god, yeay Eliza, Like we love to see this, right, Gosh, it's so hard. That's the duality that you're talking about too, just so many things going on at one time, and also that was not the first time that Lace was heartbroken on the beach and the season with everything you know, but with okay, so Lace comes down, the ogs are still up there at this pool, in this in this conversation, in this question, and then when Jill comes back, jacob relaised that info to her and she takes off. Did you have like you didn't get to say goodbye? You didn't you know all those different things? Have you spoken to her? Since I am very confident in my friendship with Jill, even still, it was devastating for her to leave and me not to be able to have like any time on the beach with her Beckets, like you said, like you have it in your mind of like I'm going to dream Margarite's with my friends, I'm gonna get tann, I'm gonna have this like fun shared experience with these girls who means so much to me, and so to not even get to hug her or like say hi to her, that was like one of the toughest moments for me for sure, And just liking how sad she was. Yeah, it really affected me. Oh, I can't even imagine, I can't even I mean, like, granted we've all done it. When we were all in The Bachelor, we all dated the same man. But it's so different this time around, when you have more time and space to explore multiple relationships. And I can't even imagine, like like on the beaches of Paradise, going after somebody that you're into that like one of your friends is into too. It's got to be such a tough predicament. It's like it's hard for me to even find the words to describe like how that feels, because it is so different from Bachelor, because you do have such autonomy an agency to make these decisions for yourself. So like it's on the one hand, empowering, but it's also like really stressful and like people's feelings are involved. Yeah, I don't, I don't. I can't even imagine. I mean, like I feel for anyone that has to go through that specific scenario on that beach. Um, Okay, so right now on this beach, we do have a couple new formed relationships, and then we have like several relationships that are very strong and granted you came down during the week where the split happened, but you also saw everyone reunite, like Brandon and Serene and Victoria and Johnny, even though that's like a little rocky. Are there any couples so far that we've seen that you're like truly hope go the distance? Truly hoping go the distance? Let me speak about our English there. Yeah, I cannot talk right now. I'm sorry. Yeah. I remember during split week like always talking to Brandon and being like, are you ready for your sweetie to get back? Because you go Serene and I are friends from Clayton season, and like just seeing him light up and like seeing you know, them come together and have that moment. Like I everybody was just like really really championing them to go the distance. Who else I thought that Aaron and Genevieve, they're like the way that they reunite like is just so indicative of, like, you know, who they are as people. And I was really excited to kind of watch that one because he was he was another one that I like got really close with and just you know, was able to be like you know, how great it should to be, like don't we love her so much? Like it was it was fun to kind of talk to the boys about how great the girls were and when they weren't around like that, was you know, that just felt so cool to be able to do that. I love the friendship set form too, honestly the best do we even need boys? Like, but you were in the friendships with the guys, like what you're saying, Like you didn't just form friendships with the girls on Clayton season, Like some of the guys on that beach now you will be friends with for a lifetime. It's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was fun to kind of be able to grow out with them but also be able to just like be there emotionally and spiritually for the girls, Like I just I don't know, across the board really really good time. Yeah, well, we know that there is still so much to come, but kay, can you tease a little for the listeners about what to expect this season on Bachelor and Paradise. What to expect this season and Unbachelor in Paradise, I think expect a lot of the unexpected. Like there are things that happen that that felt so like just out of my comfort zone and I think probably out of a lot of people's. But it was moments where you know, we got to really push our boundaries and do it in a space that was safe, and that was fun, and that was challenging, but like deeply authentic and real. Um, it's it's a lot of fun. You know. I remember kind of being sad that it was going to be over. Before it was over, you know, it was like we all I have this conversation with Michael. I don't know, I thought if they show it or not, but just like the way that you know, we're all coming together. We all are from different walks of life and have different stories, and just for this moment, we all get to be in this shared space together and share these memories. Like it brought me to tears, Like it's there. There are a lot of tough moments, but there are a lot of like heartwarming, real moments too. Yeah, so you're saying you're going to be around for a while, I tune in to find out. Damn, everyone's so good. You know how to give us just enough? I will say, like, I'm sure you felt moments on the beach where you're like this is dragging on, it's never gonna end, Like when can I just get back home to relax? But then it also moves so damn fast and like it's gone in the blink of a nine and you're going to be like, I wish I was back on that beach. So I'm I love when people can like, everyone has such a different experience. Some people love paradise, some people hate it, but I like, it's still such a unique, special thing. So I love when people can actually realize that and appreciate it. Whether you had a great outcome or not the best outcome, it's still like so unique that not very many people get to experience. So with that, Kate, before we let you go, we love to keep our listeners here on Happy how We're informed, and so lately in the past couple of weeks, we've been sharing important resources that we love. We've but including them on our Instagram highlights so people can go and check them out very easily to access them. So we're gonna have you share one. But first, Michelle, do you want to kick it off this week? Yeah? Absolutely, so. My resource is actually it's a documentary this time. It's called The Black Feminist. I believe you can stream it on YouTube. There's a bunch of other sources as well, our platforms as well, but it basically just kind of goes into that double edged sword of being feminist and being black in just how that oppression takes place over different out of race and then also a gender and so it's something that's super interesting your attention right off the bat and really kind of focuses on zones in on specifically black women. So again that one's called the Black Feminist. Awesome, Thank you, Becca. Yes. So this is a book that I read oh Man about a year ago, but it Thomas just packed it when we went out of town this weekend. And it's a book called I Take My Coffee Black. It's by my dear friend Tyler Merritt. I highly recommend everyone checking out him on Instagram. He is such a joy of a human being. His book it's all about like him growing up in this multi cultured community and realizing that, like in specific moments, that he wasn't always welcome. But it's kind of about his experience growing up as a black man. It is. It's such a great read because it's so insightful, but it's also hilarious at moments it's gut wrenching. It weaves in lessons about like white privilege and the history of racism that is still very prevalent in our country in our society. So it's called I Take Mcffee Black by Tyler Merritt. Again he's such a gem, and he also I don't know when how recent, but he did also just come out with the children's book as well, which could be incredible for younger kids. So I definitely want to check out that kid's book and maybe give it to my niece as like a little birthday present or early Christmas present. But yeah, I Take my Coffee Black. I will link that on my Instagram as well. And now, Kate, you're up, so I actually have too. The first one is a podcast that I will listen to every now and then called The Financial Feminist, and she'll have guests come on and just talk about like what it is to be a woman in the workforce and you know, how to ask for what you need and get a raise and whatever. This one in particular that kind of resonate with me is called Unlearning Self Sacrifice for Women. The guest that she has is Tiffany Dufou, who has been an author. She was on the panel for Lean in the latest book that she's written is called Dropping the Ball, and it's basically about like, as women, you know, society tells us to be all these things, a good wife, a good mom, a good employee, and like, you know, we we juggle so much and we wear so many hats, and like it's about like, you know, kind of dismantling that we have to be like all these things and you know we can ask for help and just like the kind of like gender roles and things that go with that. So I found it really interesting. I think you guys would honestly really love it. So if you haven't listened, definitely. The second one I can't like fully endorse because I'm not done with it yet, but so far, so good. It's a book I am listening to on my Hot Girl Walks called Pleasure Activism, and it's basically about The author is Adrian Marie Brown. She is a woman of color. She's also queer, and it's unpacking like how we can use pleasure in order to work through trauma and kind of like, you know, how our society has been like viewing pleasure through like different lenses and how like you can find liberation and like learning how to feel good and how that's actually better for like your interpersonal relationships, your relationship with the climate, like everything can kind of be like filtered through that, and it's like it's pretty heavy. It's like, you know, I think piece, but like it's something that I am learning so much about already and I'm like a third of the way in. So if you be resonate with that, I would recommend awesome. Well what's the title of that one again, Pleasure activism And she liked things in some parts of it, so I would recommend audiobook for sure. Okay, awesome, wonderful. Well, thank you for doing your homework and sharing those two. Yeah, always, we always love to share those, so we will definitely even if you want to send us those one two, or we can even dig them up and share them on our page two just so more people can ask access them so easily. But now the time has come, we have one last thing that you gotta do, which we have all of our guests on Happy Hour do, and that is to share your rose and thorn of your paradise journey so far. So of these two weeks that you've been on the beach overall, what has been the best moment, your highlight and what has been the messiest or worst moment? I think that my rose so far would be just how present I was able to be, Like I'm someone who can live in my head a little bit and be anticipating the future, and you know, kind of like staring into the past and in an environment like Paradise, like you are just so focused on the present and so able to just drop in and be in the moment. And that was so beautiful for me. I really I felt like that I thrived in that, like being able to just like live in the now, because that's something that's so tough for me to do on the outside. So I think that that would be my rose my thorn. I know I've talked about this at nauseum at this point, but just kind of the nature and the juxtaposition of like feeling so like powerful and being pursued and just like stepping into a space of just being like I'm going to go for what I want and feel so empowered in doing that, mixed with like, you know, these are people's feelings on the other side of this, and these are my friends, and it just was like a really it was a really tough thing for me to navigate, and I spent a lot of time like really really worried about you know, what Jill might think, what other people might think, what viewers might think, And maybe there's a butt in there for me of like why are other people's opinions? Like why am I placing so much of my worth and my value and what other people think about me? So maybe I should explore that, But I think that that would be my thorn, just you know, being in my head about all that stuff. Totally understand, Totally understand. It's definitely quite an experience, and as much as it can be a fun experience, there's a lot that comes with it even after you're done filming, once you're watching everything back as well, tougher than being there, yeah, living it, you know. But thank you so much, Kate for being here. It was so nice to talk to you, and we cannot wait to see what's next for you out on the speech. Ye I think you, Kate. It was so good to see you again. I can't wait to keep watching you, and I'm so intrigued to see where your relationship with Logan might go. So thanks for popping on today. Oh my gosh, thanks guys, it was honestly a pleasure. I feel so lucky to be able to chat with you guys. Oh you're so fun, so please come back anytime. Yeah, okay, look you soon bye. I like, Kate, that was interesting, No, that was good. She gave us a lot of really good insight, I think, yes, and I'm glad we had her own because Michelle and I had talked about this a little bit before we started recording, like, I think parts of her viewers are going to love, and then parts and things that she said on the episodes probably rubbed people the wrong way. But I'm glad we were able to have her on to explain a bit more. I think she's so confident, and you know, we're not always used to that confidence in women, and I find it incredible, Like I wish I could be more like that too, But I'm glad she was able to just give more of like the why behind her actions. I'm excited to see where it goes with her. Thank you Kate for joining us today. Michelle, I always love chatting with you, but a bigger thank you to all of our Happy Hour listeners. Don't forget to all of you listeners out there that you can catch all new episodes of Paradise every Monday and Tuesday on ABC or Hulu and make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at Bachelor happy Hour on Instagram and from there you'll find everything you need to know to Follow us on Twitter and TikTok and all new episodes of Happy Hour drop every Wednesday on Apple podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen, and you can always listen without ads by subscribing to Wondering Plus in Apple podcast or the Wondering App. Thank you, Batchelsteners, and we will see you next week. Jeez,