The Murder of William Weare

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. Today we are going to talk about a brutal and pretty gruesome murder which at the time was really the biggest news story of the day, and a lot of that news, of course, was very heavily sensationalized. It also inspired all kinds of books and plays and illustrated broadsides. But today I think it's largely been forgotten. This happened in England in eighteen twenty three. The victim was a man named William Ware and his last name was spelled weare. I have heard people say this as both where and where, And there was a ballad that rhymed it with the word ear, But a lot of the other rhymes in that ballad don't exist rhymes, so I don't That's not the biggest determiner. So, yeah, if you have heard of this crime, or you do know somebody with this last name, and you have thoughts on this, I'd like I heard many people saying each of these two ways, the name where or were, So just be aware, Uh, the public's response to this crime was also just really wrapped up in both fears and fascination around gambling and crime and bare knuckle boxing, and this idea that there was a seedy criminal underworld that was threatening respectable British society. William Ware lived at Lyon's Inn, one of England's inns of chancery, which were connected to its ends of Court. So the ends of Court are voluntary societies that have been largely responsible for legal education in England going back to at least the Middle Ages. They're the Middle Temple, the Inner Temple, Lincoln's In and Gray's In. These still exist today and barristers in England and Wales belonged to one of them. Their exact history is tricky to document, though, because they gradually evolved from a tradition in which people learn to practice law almost entirely by doing, like by working as someone's clerk. Yeah, Like nobody sat down and decided they were going to establish some ends of court. It was a gradual process and that just makes the beginnings kind of fuzzy. For a long time, though, a lot of people who wanted to become barristers could start their training not at one of the ends of court, but at one of the ends of chancery, and these ends were focused on teaching people the very basics of law and how to draft various legal documents. Consequently, the ends of chancery have this like whole interconnected history with the ends of court, and that's outside the bounds of what we're talking about in today's episode. But eventually two distinct professions developed within this system. There were barristers who trained at the ends of court and who were called to the bar, and then solicitors who had more of a basic level of training. They trained at the ends of chancery, and they often had their lodgings and offices there. By the nineteenth century, though the ends of chancery were really declining in terms of their membership and their role in legal education, they had already been seen as less prestigious than the ends of court, not just because of their focus on a more rudimentary legal education, but also because they were home to people who had tried to become barristers but were refused a call to the bar. Lions in so where William Ware lived in particular, had a pretty poor reputation among the ends of chancery in the nineteenth century. An article titled Some Ends of Chancery, which was published in various law journals in the early twentieth century, described it this way quote. It was a queer old place lions In It perished of public contempt long before it came to the hammer in the pick. It was a gloomy expanse of dirt and disrepute. In the days before the Globe theater and the opera kamique usurped its site. Towards the last none lived there but black legs, adventurers and attorneys who had been struck of the rolls. It looked very wicked, did this dingy square. It was a shady place of abode in more ways than one. Mister Ware left one of its tumble down sets of chambers with shutters swinging to the wind when he set out for the country to be murdered by mister Thurtel. Other than his being known as William Ware of lions In and being murdered by mister Thurtel, we know very little about William Ware's life. There's some suggestion that he had worked as a waiter and that he was part of a gang of criminal Gamblers run by a man known as lemon Ware, was murdered after allegedly cheating John Thurtel out of about three hundred pounds. And we know a lot more about Thtel than we do about where. Thurtell's father, Thomas, was a prominent resident of Norwich, having served on the Common Council and then as an alderman and then as sheriff, and then about a year after this crime he became the Mayor of Norwich. His son, John Thurtell, was born December twenty first, seventeen ninety four, and was commissioned into the Royal Marine in eighteen oh nine, where he ultimately became a second lieutenant. At one point in his military career he was briefly discharged for misconduct, but whatever that was about seems not to have been that serious, because he was allowed to return to service not long after that. He resigned in eighteen fourteen, and then he went into business as a bombazine manufacturer. Bombazine is a type of dress fabric, and this is a business that Thurtell's father set up for him. It does seem to be a strange gearshift in terms of career. Thurtell did not do well in the bombazine business, though he had learned to box when he was younger, and he became increasingly focused on boxing, not textiles. Bare knuckle boxing was an intensely popular activity in regency England, and one in which the social classes mixed in a way that many in the upper classes found deeply inappropriate. A gentleman might take lessons in boxing, also called pugilism, in the same way that he might pursue fencing, but professional boxing was often frowned upon or even illegal, and underground boxing matches were associated with all kinds of crime, including gambling and fixing matches, with pickpockets and thieves working the crowds. The word blackleg, which was also used to describe strike breakers, was used to describe all kinds of criminals connected to the world of underground boxing and the interconnected world of boxing and gambling, and the people who were part of it were nicknamed the fancy. Thurtell's interest in boxing soon really overwhelmed his interest in his business, and he started losing money and turning to crimes of his own to try to make up the difference. Crime historian Albert Borrowitz described this shift from being the son of a respected local leader to being a criminal as quote like a Hogarthian cautionary tale. As the second time Hogarth's name has come up on the show in recent weeks, it is artist and satirist William Hogarth, who we've covered on the show before, including as a Saturday Classic in twenty twenty one. Hogarth was known for works like A Harlot's Progress, which was a series of paintings about a young woman becoming a sex worker presented as kind of a cautionary tale. At one point, Thurtell traveled from Norwich to London to collect the money for goods he'd sold money that was all due to his creditors, but he later claimed that he had been beaten and robbed of it all on the road. His creditors did not believe this story, and he ultimately declared bankruptcy. After this, he moved to London, where he tried to run a public house, once again running up debts instead of turning a profit, and so he turned to focus more to boxing. He became a boxing trainer and a backer of boxers. He made connections to a number of other men who were in sort of a similar personal and financial situation to his. One was William Probert, who had gone bankrupt after failing to become a wine merchant. There was also Joseph Hunt, who worked in taverns and had once reportedly managed the army in Navy Tavern, but he also had run up a bunch of debts there before abruptly quitting. So the whole group of men very good at running up debts apparently, I mean who among us? Uh Thurtell's brother Tom had a criminal history of his own, and along with some other men, the brothers were part of an arson and insurance fraud attempt in eighteen twenty three. John got a loan from his father and used it to buy some bombazine, which he secretly sold. Then some of the co conspirators burned down the warehouse where the fabric was supposedly being stored. The insurance company alleged that the warehouse fire was arson and refused to pay their claim, so Tom sued them. Although this whole thing seemed really suspicious, a jury ordered the insurance company to pay the claim. Of course, the insurance company did not want to do this and alleged that there was fraud involved, and ultimately that did lead to the Thurtel brothers being indicted just to close the circle on that this case was ongoing during this murder. In John Thurtel's murder trial, and Tom and one of his co conspirators were later convicted of fraud and sentenced to two years in prison. Thurtell was described as the sort of person who came from the country to London thinking that he was worldly inexperienced, but then fell prey to various swim at the gambling table. According to Thurtel, one of those was William Ware, who he said cheated him out of about three hundred pounds in a game of blind hooky. This is a card game that's known by various other names, including banker and broker. This game is one of random chance and luck. It's a process of shuffling and cutting cards and dealing them into piles, and then comparing the bottom card of each pile to the dealer's card, with the high card winning. If you're good at sleight of hand, though, you can stack the deck in your favor or slip your own high card onto the bottom of your pile. Where had a reputation for carrying large amounts of money around with him because he did not trust the banks, so Thurtel, who at this point was being described as increasingly embittered and angry in the face of all that had gone wrong in his life, came up with a plan to try to both get even and get his hands on some of that money. And we're going to talk more about how this whole thing unfurroled. After a sponsor break in October of eighteen twenty three, John Thurtel invited William Ware out for a weekend of gambling and shooting at a cottage in radlet, Hertfordshire where William Probert was living, but Where did not make it there. On the night of Friday, October twenty fourth, Thurtel pulled a gun on him in their gig as they were on the way to the cottage. Thurtel reportedly demanded that Ware explain himself and Where was unrepentant, so Thurtel tried to shoot him in the face. Either he missed or the gun misfired. This bullet only grazed War's cheek, so Thurtel used his pen knife to slit Whre's throat and then beat him in the head with his pistol. Thurtel then dragged Where's body away first hiding it in some brush, and then dumping it into the fish pond near the cottage. When he went inside and told Probert what he had done, Probert demanded that he move the body somewhere else Apart from this fish pond being adjacent to Probert's cottage and Probert wanting to distance himself from the murder, it doesn't sound like Thurtell did a great job with this attempted body dumping. When they went out to the pond Where's feet were sticking out of it, with the help of Joseph Hunt, they took Where's body to another pond in Elstree, about three miles away, which is why sometimes this is called the Elstree murder. It did not take long for people in the area to start thinking that something suspicious had happened. A man named Philip Smith reported that he had heard a gunshot followed by three or four minutes of groaning while he was out with his wife. She was really upset by what they had heard, but he did not go to investigate because he didn't want to leave her by herself. Another named Freeman said he had seen two men in a gig going very fast, and that he had yelled at them about their recklessness. On Sunday, two workers named John Heatherington and Richard Hunt found a pistol and a pen knife by the road, and the pistol was covered in blood and hair, with its barrel full of what looked like brains. Heatherington said that the night before he had seen two men poking through a hedge nearby like they were looking for something, and when he asked them about it, they said that they'd been out in a gig when it had overturned and they were looking for their belongings. In other words, their telling company left the murder weapons lying around on Friday night and went looking for them on Saturday, but could not find them. These two workers handed over the pistol and the knife to their boss, and ultimately these weapons were given to the local magistrate, who had heard about the report of the gunshot. Investigators went to the area where the shot seemed to have come from, and they found an obvious murder scene, complete with bloody drag marks leading into the brush. Probert's cottage was nearby, so investigators went there and found him on the verge of moving out, with all of his belongings packed and loaded into wagons. They placed him under arrest and he told them his guests that weekend had been John Thurtell and Joseph Hunt. All three men were ultimately taken into custody. An officer Ruthven found two more firearms at the inn where Thurtell had been staying, along with bloody clothing, and local authorities asked for help from the Bow Street runners. As the investigation was going on and magistrates were questioning people, London solicitor John Noll arrived and told senior magistrate Robert Clutterbuck and his colleague John finch Mason that he might know who the victim was. Noel thought it was his client William Ware, who had said he was going on a shooting excursion but had not come home and no one had been able to find him. When Joseph Hunt was questioned, he gave a very detailed statement about what had happened, including a lot of things from well before the actual murderer. He talked about the three hundred pounds Thurtel said where had cheated him out of, and how he had accompanied Thurtel to a pawnshop where Thurtell had bought some pistols, and how they'd made plans for this shooting excursion. He said that when Thurtell had come into the cottage that Friday night, he said, I have settled that bee who robbed me of three hundred pounds, and that when Probert asked what he meant, Thurtell said, quote, I meant to say that I have blown his brains out, and he lays behind a hedge in the lane. According to Hunt, Robert was highly upset at this revelation, saying, quote, you have never been guilty of a thing of that kind, John Thurtel. If you have and near my cottage, my character and family are ruined forever. But I cannot believe that you have been guilty of so rash an act. And then, in something that seems pretty strange, Hunt said, Probert remembered that dinner needed to be made for the evening, and he told Hunt to take a pork loin to the kitchen. According to Hunt's statements, Thurtel said he felt too ill to eat at dinner that night, but then later showed Hunt and Probert a gold watch he did not have before, saying he thought it must be worth at least three hundred pounds. Hunt also took investigators to the pond where the body had been dumped, and they used a drag to retrieve it. The body was taken to an establishment run by a mister Fields, known as the Artichoke, which was also one of the places, one of several that Probert and Hunt had been out drinking earlier on the night of the murder. Reports described the body this way. Quote The head and as far as the abdomen were enveloped in the sack, the body having been thrust into it head foremost the feet were tied together with a piece of cord, to which were appended a pocket handkerchief filled with flint stones weighing about thirty pounds. Another cord was tied over the sack round the waist of the deceased, to which was effect a very large flint stone, and in the end of the sack a great number of stones had been placed before the body was put into it. A coroner's inquest was held at the Artichoke on October thirty first, before a jury of twelve men. Many of the same witnesses who had given statements to the magistrates were questioned a second time. Hunt again told his entire story, which mostly lined up with his earlier statements to the magistrates. Some of this seemed like he was trying to be cooperative with the hope of being treated leniently, but also trying not to say anything that would incriminate him. He did admit to some things, though, like buying the sack and cord that were used in trying to hide the body in the pond. To add to that weird bit earlier about Probert stopping in the middle of being informed of a to make some dinner arrangements. During the coroner's inquest, Hunt said that he had been taken to Probert's cabin to act as an entertainer. He was supposed to sing, and, according to this testimony, after Thurtel came in and told everybody that he had murdered where Hunt had resumed singing, in his words quote for some short time. Probert was questioned as well, and similarly gave statements that didn't implicate him in the actual murder. He said he had been there before and after it happened, but Surtell had acted alone, and he denied having hired Hunt as a singer, but said that Hunt had sung a song after Thurtel came in and told them he had killed someone. Once the inquest was over where's body which had to be viewed by the coroner's jury, and the accused was buried. The burial and the graveside funeral service started at eleven pm to discourage any onlookers. Newspapers had started reporting on the crime. I'm on October thirty first, and over the objections of the magistrates, the Times printed Hunt's initial account of the murder in its entirety on the following day. This launched an enormous amount of reporting in England, including a lot of illustrated publications. Sometimes this is described as the first trial by newspapers in the UK and is setting the stage for illustrated crime reporting which really took off after this. After a sponsor break, we'll talk about the trial and its aftermath. John Thurtell and Joseph Hunt were tried for murder at the Hertford Assizes. The trial was originally scheduled to start on December fourth, eighteen twenty three, but Thurtel's lawyer asked for a postponement. There had been already so much reporting about the crime, and that reporting overwhelmingly presumed that his client was guilty, so Thurtel's lawyer argued there was no way for a trial to be fair. There was a lot of discussion around this, and ultimately the trial was postponed to January sixth, eighteen twenty four. Kind of unsurprisingly, that postponement did not lead to a decline in all the reporting or the interest in the case, though. On the day that the trial finally started, the street from the jail to the town hall was so clogged with carriages and onlookers that presiding Judge Justice James Park had trouble getting into the building, even though Hunt had given a detailed confession and taken investigators to the body. William Probert was the one given the opportunity to testify against the other two men in exchange for clemency. The general public was already pretty convinced about Thurtell and Hunt's guilt, though, and gallows were built to hang them before the trial even started. The trial lasted for two days, and both Thurtell and Hunt were convicted of murder. Thurtell's father, Thomas reportedly refused to be involved or to pay any of his son's legal expenses, and there was some reporting also that really focused a lot on how unfortunate it was that this upstanding man's sons had turned out to be such miscreants. Beyond all the many testimonies that had been given before the magistrates and the coroner's jury, investigators had found so many witnesses who had knowledge of some aspect of the crime, like the owner of the pawn shop who said that he had sold thirtel the pistols, and a rope maker who said he remembered selling the sack and the cord. A different shop owner said that he had sold a shovel to one of the men that was a shovel that had his trademark on the handle. Although this didn't wind up being relevant to the case, it did suggest that maybe the men had been planning to bury the body rather than dump it in the pond. Hunt also rented horse veres and gigs from the same men repeatedly over the weekend of the crime, including at one point returning a gig that had blood and dirt in the floor. John Thurtell was hanged on January ninth, and in the day that passed between his conviction and his execution, he was reportedly focused mainly on the results of that day's boxing matches and on telling Hunt he had forgiven him, while Thurtell had maintained his innocence throughout the investigation and the trial. Before his hanging, he told a chaplain that quote, I admit that justice has been done me. I am perfectly satisfied. He was hanged before a crowd of at least fifteen thousand spectators, and his body was left hanging for an hour before it was taken down. Part of Thurtell's sentence was that his body would be dissected. Surgeon John Abernathy performed this dissection on January tenth at Saint Bartholomew's Hospital in front of an audience. Sureist Thomas Rolinson drew pictures of the dissection, and a phrenologist also made a cast of Thurtell's head. A wax model of him was made as well, reportedly by Marie Tousd herself, and it was displayed at Madame Tussaude's waxworks in London for at least a century afterward. The gallows and drop used in this execution were also in the Chamber of Horrors there at Madame Tussod's, although with a waxwork of a different person being executed as part of the display. I tried to look into whether any of that is still on display. I did not find an answer. I also did not like try to call the museum and ask. Although a Hunt had been also sentenced to death, his earlier cooperation did wind up earning him some clemency, and rather than being executed, he was transported to Australia for life. He became a police constable there, and he died in eighteen sixty one. Probert never stood trial for his role in this crime, but his alleged involvement in it meant that he was really ostracized afterward, and he could not find any legitimate ways to make money, so he went back to a life of crime, and in eighteen twenty five, at the age of thirty three, he was hanged for stealing a horse belonging to one of his relatives. A broadside that was published detailing the hanging of Probert and six other men, devotes fully half of his length just to Probert, like this is sort of framed as like detailing the hanging of all these seven men who were hanged on the same day, but half of it is about him. This included quote they will be recollected that Probert was the companion and friend of John Thurtell and Henry Hunt, who were all concerned in the savage and bloody murder of one of their bottle friends, whom they decoyed out of London into a lonely part of the country and brutally murdered him, which created a great sensation throughout the whole country at the time, and for which Thurtel was executed and Hunt banished for life in consequence of his confession, where the dead body was concealed. But Probert, having been admitted a witness against his companions, he for a time escaped that fate which his crimes so justly deserved, and which now most assuredly waits him on Monday morning next. I think we said earlier that this was after the hanging, This clearly was written before it. Ever since his dismissal from custody, he had been wandering about the country, and even in the remotest village he was spurned as an outcast from society and hunted down like a wild beast of the forest. He and his wife were both on the point of starvation and without a friend who assist them, which drove him to commit the crime which seated his doom. On learning his fate, he was greatly surprised, as he always expected that his life would have been spared, and immediately sat down to write letters to his wife an aged mother. There was a lot of coverage of Where's Murder and the trial and thirtell connections to boxing and gambling. There were so many newspaper articles, broadsides, and pamphlets, many of them illustrated. Multiple books printed just after the trial mainly include various court documents and other records. An illustrated pamphlet titled the Horrid Effects of Gambling exemplified in the atrocious Murder of mister William Ware who was first treacherously inveigled and then cruelly butchered by his associates in Gills Lane Hertz, together with the remarkable trial and conviction of John Thurtell and Joseph Hunt for the murder, including Thurtel's eloquent defense, his demeanor previous two and throughout the trial, and a particular account of his conduct at the place of execution sold for sixpence. There was also fiction and theater like There was a play called The Gamblers that was Based on this, It was staged at the New Surrey Theater, which was under the management of Llewellyn Boiled Beef Williams. This was first produced after the murder and then it was restaged after the hanging. Edward Bulwer Lytton, who is perhaps best known for having started a book with It Was a Dark and Stormy Night, wrote a novel called Pelham, which was heavily influenced by Thurtel and the Murder. These are just a couple of examples out of many through the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Also, there was verse in ballads like they asked him down from London town a shooting for to go. But little did the gem and think, as they would shoot him too. So Ruthven went from bow Street scent searching the country over until he pitched into Joe Hunt, John Thurtell and Bill Probert. His throat. They cut from ear to ear his brains, they battered in His name was mister William ware what lived in lions in? And of course this was not just about the enormous public appetite for news about the crime and the people involved in it. It was also about money. For example, Jimmy cat Natch, printer at seven dials, reportedly made five hundred pounds from the sale of broadsides and other material related to this case. This press sold a quarter of a million ballads in a week after the murder made news, and then almost another half million during the trial, and then after the execution, cat Natch printed a broadside with this huge headline that read we are alive again, but he did some bad curning on there, so it looked like it said where alive again. It's possible that all the very cheap publications that came out around this case were what gave rise to the term catchpenny for something that uses sensationalism or cheapness to try to gain appeal. And much of this writing on the case was really dramatic and sensationalized. Like this is from the preface of a narrative of the Mysterious and Dreadful Murder of Mister w Ware, containing the examination before the magistrates, the coroner's inquest, the confession of Hunt and other particulars previous to the trial, collected from the best sources of intelligence, with anecdotes of where their tell Hunt, Probert and others, and a full report of the trial and subsequent execution at Hertford, So that quote reads blood. It is said, will have blood, and the fate of one of these murderers, the cold, oblivious sod or grave of the murdered man, his shattered skull and mangled throat speak to us all as a monitor. Awfully impressive, convincing us in the language of the apostle that the wages of sin is death. People were really transfixed by so many different aspects of this crime, like the connections to boxing and gambling. The twoth or Tail brothers a parent fall from the life of their father, who as far as we know, is pretty upstanding. There was Tom testifying against his brother at trial, and also just the sheer callousness of the men reportedly singing songs and ordering dinner in the immediate aftermath of being informed of a murder. Also, we alluded to earlier, they went out drinking at a lot of ends over the course of that weekend. Mixed in with all of that, though, a lot of people seem to have a lot of sympathy for Thirtel, especially because he went to his hanging with an air of bravery. Murder was pretty rare in England in the eighteen twenties, and this happened just as daily newspapers had really proliferated, and so all of this together turned it into a very major news story. As a final note, in twenty twenty two, something that did not make it into Unearthed was the sale of a nineteenth century jug commemorating the murderer. People called it the Murder Jug and they expected it to sell for two hundred pounds, but it sold for five thy five hundred plus various auction fees. The jug has a picture of detectives pulling Where's body out of the pond with the caption pond in which the body of where was found. Yeah, so there were commemorative potteries. I mean right, that's sure. Do you have commemorative listener mail? I do? This is from Sam Samurai, t Hi, Holly, and Tracy. I've been listening to the podcast since probably twenty thirteen. Wow, time is flying. I've almost got my PhD in missed in history. As you often say, the continuing education factor of this specific PhD is a lot to keep up with. For a while now, I've been meaning to send an email to thank you for all of your incredibly hard work. I've got my own TV recap podcasts that only airs twice a month, and I cannot even fathom the intense work you put into a show that airs four times a week. Bravo to you. Three of your episodes lately have really made me think about my own life. One, the history of sunscreen. I've been meaning to email you for a long, long long time now asking for that, so it's like you read my mind. I loved learning about the history and science behind something I use every day. I'll have to try that unicorn one that you mentioned, always looking for new sunscreen. Two Lucretia of Winchester as a Jewish person with an unexplainable fascination for surrounding English history. It's like this episode was made for me. I always wonder what my ancestors were doing back then. They sure weren't royalty or being involved in court life. This episode taught me so much about medieval Jewish history in England that I somehow didn't yet know. We're such a small segment of the population, especially now after the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, that I'm sure I'm related to someone who knew someone who knew her. We call that Jewish geography. It's one of my favorite games to play. It's like six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Such a fun time. Highly recommend three The History of air Conditioning. I have a two and a half year old rescue dog named Ruthie photos attached for your viewing pleasure, of course, who is the absolute light of my life, and we trained together every day. This episode, you talk about how it's clinically proven that people's working and cognitive ability is significantly less when the temperature is high and they are feeling overheated or hot. This reminded me to give her and myself some extra grace on hot days if she's not as good of a listener or as patient with our training games as she normally is living in the Los Angeles area. I really think that has been the most useful piece of information I've learned this year. Ru and I both thank you endlessly for that. All these made me think what else I'd like to hear on this show. Have you ever heard of Leonard Kessler? He was a wonderful children's book author who died last year at one hundred and one. Not sure if there's enough for a published full length episode, but maybe a six impossible episodes on little known Jewish Americans. He also fought in World War Two and was a good friend of Andy Warhol. Sam also has a little more about the podcast. The podcast is called Beach Houses of Babies, a Private Practice recap podcast. It is a rewatch of the TV show Private Practice, which, as folks may be, where a spinoff of Grey's Anatomy. A thing that cracked me up about this email, As Sam says, my show is about its first spin off, Private Practice, and I had a moment where I was like, what is the second spin off before I remembered, Oh yeah, Station nineteen, which my circle of friends refers to as Hot Firefighters. If you'd like to see more pictures of the most adorable thirteen pound puppy in the Galaxy, you can follow her Instagram rescuing Ruthie. She also has an adorable relationship with my parents' tuxedo cat, Eliza. I've attached some photos of them for year two. So Sam also says, I'd like to send a holiday card. You mentioned not having a place to send physical mail. Do you haven't addressed yet? So we will reiterate. We do have an address. Now a new office slash record arding space in Atlanta did finally open. We do with all great respect ask please do not send physical veil just because we are so rarely there and it's a it's a it's an office that has really limited space that is mostly devoted to recording studios, so there's not there's also not really like storage for physical idea. There's not a dedicated place where they could say, put the history people's stuff here. Yeah, yeah, So we very much love everybody's time and attention. But to reiterate that, Holly Sam says that if Drawn a History of Animation ever comes back, I'll be first in line to listen. So thank you so much, Sam for all of these adorable pictures. My good sure, I'm following Ruthie now on Instagram. So good, so many. Also, I just want to say shout out every single picture of Ruthie in the outdoors as a leisha on and as a person who is greatly uncomfortable by being jumped on by strange dogs in the out of doors. I thank you for that. If you would like to send us a note about this or any other podcasts or a history podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. We're all over social media missed in History. I feel like all over is now an over statement because we still haven't started accounts on those new ones that are trying to replace that one that's named X. Now, you can subscribe to our show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever do you like get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.