Travis d'Arnaud, Charlie Morton, and November News and Notes for the Braves

00:00:21
Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Hammer Territory podcast. My name is Sean Coleman. As always a pleasure to be with you are wherever you are and wherever you are listening. I hope that you are having a wonderful start to your week. I believe this is show one twelve. I need to do a better job of keeping up with a number of shows that we have done. It's crazy to think that we've done that many in this few short months. We've been a part of Foul Territory, a great, great family baseball podcast. But always a pleasure to be with you, and especially a pleasure to be with my podcast partner, Steven Tolbert. Steven, good to talk with you, sir. I hope you've had a good start to the week as well.

00:00:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's up, Sean? Yeah, man, it's good to be back with you. Obviously, got an interesting show tonight. Has have had some news that's popped in the last twenty four forty eight hours. The show we were planning on doing was a little bit different than the one we're actually gonna do because we had enough news drop where we could pretty much focus on stuff that's actually happening versus you know, things that might happen, which was kind of the original idea of the show. So yeah, good show tonight. It's always going to be on with you.

00:01:20
Speaker 1: Man, absolutely, And to your point, you know, if you the past couple of shows that we've done, we really have kind of done our you know, a few off season premieeres, if you will, you know, looking at you know, several trade candidates. I believe it came up to twenty to twenty five names last week that me, you and Scott talked about. And then on Sunday, Brad and Scott both went over several notable pitching names that would make sense for the Braves, and we'll we'll touch on Matt a bit later on in the episode, but let's get to the news of the day that I think is most notable, and that, of course is the fact that you know, we would just within you know, less than two weeks since the Braves decide there actually it was last week. It was it was last Monday, so eight days ago, the Braves made the decision not to exercise Travis darnaut Is eight million dollar option for twenty twenty five. Me and you talked about the reason why they made that decision well today, Travis darna Actually it looked as if the Braves you know, may stick around, you know, with the idea of signing Darnaut, if he hung around this offseason. That's not the case. Travis Darnau today signed a two year, twelve million dollar deal with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Now it may be a bit of a surprise that Darnault signed this early in the offseason. I think he got a pretty fair deal. I don't think his destination is a surprise, because, you know, with Perim and Iasen, you know, being you know, a former you know, member of Alexanthopolis's for an office here in Atlanta, it's not a surprise that once again a former Brave winds up in LA. But what I do think this clearly shows, Stephen, is that now the Braves have no choice. They're going to need to add a catcher to the situation if they're not fully committed to Drake Baldwin being the back and with Travis Arnaut now signed in LA, be a bit interesting to see what direction the Brains go to go with the catcher to pay with Sean Murphy moving.

00:03:08
Speaker 2: Forward, Yeah, I mean we knew, you know, as soon as we got the notification that they weren't bringing Darnault back on his option. You know, one million, our one year, eight million is was a reasonable contract for Travis. And you know, you brought up the point that when they figured out that Joejamenez was assentially going to be a nine million dollar loss on the payroll, that they needed to free up some money to go get maybe potentially get a reliever. And that's part of the reason they didn't bring Travis back, and that that very well could be the case. But once he got released and put out on the free agent market, Travis instantly became probably the top catcher on the market. It's not a great catcher's market for if you're looking for like a starting caliber catcher. And that was my concern with trying to wait around to bring him back, is that a team that needed to go get, you know, help a catcher could be very aggressive with Travis because they know that after him, it's not a great it's not a great a roster of catchers on the free agent market. So and that's what happened. The Angels went out and gave him a you know, a two year twelve million dollar contract. It's good money for Travis obviously at his age, the concussion stuff that he's dealt with, you know, to get two guaranteed years at real money, of course, you you know you have to take that. So you know, now the braves are you know, like you said, now the braves are in it. You know, Travis Darnaut is gone. And none of us expected that ten days ago. I don't I don't know what the odds would have been that we would have been sitting here on November twelve talking about Travis Darnault signing with the Angels, but they would have been pretty low when the all season started. So yeah, now the question shifts like, and we talked about this a little on the show. We did about this, but are they comfortable with Drake Baldwin playing so little, you know, twenty five thirty percent of the time. I doubt it. I'm still in the mindset that I highly doubt they're gonna let this guy just sit on the bench for most of the year. Now, you could argue he could you know, help the age, helping outfield, Maybe they do that, but we have we have no indication they're going to do that. If you go just by catcher reps, he would sit most of the time. And I just don't know if they're going to do that. So, like you said, it shifts too. Are they gonna go get a backup catcher? You know, there's this is a really good market if you're trying to go get a backup catcher, because there's a lot of backup catchers out there. It's starting catchers that you have a hard time finding at the moment. So there's plenty of names. You know, you and I were talking about his money grand doll before we we got on. You know, because he's a switch hitter. He could help balance out the lineup. He still had a pretty good year last year, so maybe they do that. Maybe they trust Chadwick Trump to be that guy. The good thing about Trump is he knows the pitching staff really well. He spent a decent amount of time in Atlanta. Because of how much time Sean Murphy miss last year. I think that's an underrated part of this. I think that matters that Trump has caught all of the Braves pitchers before and knows them. That might give him a leg up. We'll see, I don't know, We'll see if they add somebody, But I do not think it's going to be Drake Baldwin. I'm still kind of, you know, towing that line. I don't think they're gonna let this kid sit on the bench for eighty percent of the time in twenty twenty five.

00:06:17
Speaker 1: Well, I think that it brings up another interesting point because while Travis Darna was the backup catcher, but he did play, you know, for a good portion over the past two seasons, especially you know, since July of twenty twenty three, there were times, you know, we're plea he would play months on end as if he was a starting catcher. But the other part of it is that what are you looking for? What are you valuing in the backup catcher role? You know, One thing that I think stands out for a lot of teams is that it may surprise many that more teams don't go after more offensively minded backup catchers. But I think that a lot of teams value that backup catcher role as somebody that can be good on defense can really help them the preparation when it comes to the pitching approach towards games and has more of a defensive upside than an offensive upside. But for the Braves particular, you know, Travis Startinaut was our main go to guy when it came to pinch hitting as well several times over the past couple of years. He had a knack for delivering in the big moment. So I know we probably are gonna have Jared Kilnick off the benches is mainly our main bat against right handed pitching. But what are your thoughts, Steven on what qualities you value in that backup catcher. Is it going to get a bat that has at least some upside that could be that you know, go to pinch hitter, or do you feel that it makes sense to value that deepense and that added value when it comes to the pitching preparation you know that we see pitchers and catchers do before games.

00:07:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, it's definitely the latter. I would say, I definitely lean more towards the pitching defense, you know, with Travis specifically. And one thing we do need to say is that Travis was a massive, massive influence in that clubhouse. Like he was one of the team leaders. He's been with this team since twenty twenty. He was one of the only guys left that was on the World Series team. You know, if you go look at that twenty twenty one roster and go look at this roster, there's not a lot of leftovers. You know, you got Ozzie, you got Riley, You're about to lose Max, you might lose Morton, you might lose mentor you know, the number of guys that were on that twenty twenty one team is dwindling fast. And obviously with Travis, we just lost another one. So he was a he was a leader in that clubhouse, and that's why I thought maybe they might go get a guy like Grindall. You know, thirty six, been around, you know, knows the league, you know, a veteran guy. I think having veterans in the clubhouse is probably something that the general public probably doesn't think a lot about or care enough about, that actually does matter a lot to a team and a GM and a manager. So yeah, I'll be assumed what they do. You know, Trump definitely has the leg up because he's just been with the team for so long. He's been up a lot, you know, with the injuries of the last couple of years. He knows the pitching staff. It wouldn't be It wouldn't surprise me at all if they just went with him. He's also cheap, which you know helps a lot right now, so they might just do that. But if they went out and got a veteran, and it doesn't have to be Grindalla, I said grindlic He's is a switch hitter and he's a veteran, but it could be a lot of guys. There's a lot of backup catchers on the market. But yeah, my guess is they're gonna value defense first in that in that backup catcher spot. And yeah, it'll be a suit where it to go.

00:09:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, whatever direction the Braves decide to go will certainly be interesting to see. But I think that the other thing that this does point out is that this team clearly is committed to Sean Murphy. You know, we won't go into too much of that. I don't think many doubted that, but if anybody did have, if anybody did need further confirmation, you have it here. Sean Murphy is the main stay for this Braves, you know, for the Braves backstop. It'll be interesting to see who the Braves eventually go get as a backup, But without a doubt, Sean Murphy is the guy moving forward, and of course also would be very interesting to see how this team handles Drake Baldwin.

00:09:58
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make one more point because somebody brought this up to me after we did the last show that you and I talked about the catching spot, and I thought it was a good point and it needs to be said. The problem with Drake Baldwin being a backup, of course, is that if you want Murphy to catch eighty percent of the time seventy five percent of the time, then that means he sits twenty five percent of the time. That's the problem, right, everybody knows that. But if you're looking from the other side, that problem isn't necessarily going away next year either. And you know, the Braves have Murphy locked up for five years. I think something like that. I don't know exact deals of the contract. I think it's like five years left on his deal. And you know, there's gonna be people that think trading Baldwin is the best use of his value. Because this this problem isn't going away next year. That you don't have a solution next year either. You know, if you don't want Baldwin to be a backup catcher and you already have a primary catcher signed for multiple years into the future, then you can kick the can down the road for maybe another year and see if you know, if Murphy gets hurt again, or if Murphy is not as good and you need to move on, then you know, keeping Baldwin matters. But that is a valid point that just because it doesn't work this year doesn't mean next year is just gonna automatically solve itself. It's kind of the same problem next year. And and I don't know if that will factor into their decision of what they're gonna do with Baldwin. I would think they're gonna hold on to them now that Darnault's gone. But that's a fair point in that the same problem that you're gonna have this year and not wanting Baldwin to be the backup you're gonna have next year too, you know, assuming that Murphy's not going anywhere, so that that doesn't need to be said. It might be factored into what they do. We'll see, but you know, that is a notable point.

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00:12:51
Speaker 1: Which brings up the point that I think it's gonna be very interesting to see what the Braves decide to do, you know, with that backup catcher, if they wind up signing a guy kind of like they did dar No for you know, multiple years in a row. A one year deal with an option for a second year. I think that kind of puts an indication in there that, you know what, while we clearly think Drake Baldwin probably is valuable, he's highly valued in this organization, I think it could keep the door open to wearing the right deal.

00:13:16
Speaker 2: He could be available.

00:13:18
Speaker 1: But speaking of available, you know, the big thing for the Braves, you know that that you know, for the second straight off season it may be a surprise. Is that one thing that we've consistently talked about here and so far in you know, the short start or the short time that we've been in the baseball off season, we've mainly had pitchers that have been connected to the Braves Steven and so that to me again proves the point that pitching once again is going to be a focus of the Braves this off season. But Jeppison, who came out with his you know, usual big off season outlook piece, he had that on Tuesday, he made a couple of points that were pretty eye opening when it came to the Braves. For one, many including myself, had thought there was a very real chance that veteran Charlie Morton could potentially retire at the end of the twenty four season, but Poissan, as well as a few others, have indicated. Poissan's indication probably the most emphatic, the most clear, that it's going to happen. Charlie Morton will pitch another year. It seems he wants to come back and pitch at the age of forty one, and in past comments from him would make it seem as if that the reason why he would want to pitch would probably be because he feels it's going to be in Atlanta. So I ask you this question, Stephen. I think it makes sense for the race to bring Charlie Morton back, especially with his durability. But where is he on the priority list? How much of a priority or if they bring Morton back, how satisfying is that for this starting rotation. Is it a pure priority is it more of a back burner type opportunity? What makes sense? Where is he on the priority list?

00:14:52
Speaker 2: I think you have to aim higher first because you're losing Max Freed almost certainly, and you have no idea which going to get from Spencer Strider next year, when he's gonna come back or when he does come back, how good he's going to be. That's two aces. You know that you don't know one year losing outright and the other you don't know what you're gonna get next year. So I think they they need to aim higher than Charlie Morton first and foremost. You know, the guys Brad and Scott to the show on Sunday about you know free agent pitchers. You need to go listen to that show. They went over a ton of names. You know, Nathan Novaldi was kind of the big name that came up. Like that's a that's a level of guy that the Braves need to target, like as a priority, like the number one guy you go after, because he's a guy that can sit at the top of a rotation with sale. You know, he can be a number two starter, a high end number three starter, still very good. And so if they if they wanted to add Morton to the rotation, I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with them only adding Morton to the rotation. You know the fact that Morton is interested in pitching in twenty twenty five and he still doesn't it is still doesn't have a deal with the Braves is notable. To me, this feels like something that would have gotten done. Like a lot of times they redid his deal in September. A lot of years where they would just re up him again and again and again and again, and it usually never even got to the offseason. So the fact that we're already into November and they don't have a deal means to me at least that the Braves are shopping in a different aisle. They're aiming higher than Morton. I think they could do Morton, and of all deed, like, for example, somebody at that level, I wouldn't pay Charlie Morton any more than ten million dollars next year. I probably try to get him for less than that, maybe like five to eight million, but he might you know, other teams might have something to say about that. But in the past, Charlie has made it clear that he doesn't want to move all over the country to play baseball. Like he said in the past, he wanted to play with the Braves or the Rays. He wanted to stay in the Southeast. I don't know if that's still the case for him. I would think so, but I don't know. So I don't know how much competition is out there in terms of actually being able to sign Charlie Morton. But yeah, you can get Charlie for five eight ten million dollars at the most. I would be okay with that. I'm not okay with that being the only movie you mak in the rotation there because losing Max Freed, having no clue what you're gonna get from Spencer Strider next year. You know all the other stuff, Chris Saille throwing more innings and he's thrown in five years. Ronaldo Lopez, same thing, Spencer swallenback, same thing you need. I think you need a really good picture to add to this rotation. And I would aim higher than Charlie Morton, Nathan Ivaldi. You know, we can talk about other names, but I would hope that they're aiming higher than Morton to start out with.

00:17:38
Speaker 1: And I know that so much has been discussed when it comes to what the Braves have done during the regular season over the past two years. The historic offense in twenty twenty three, the fall off in twenty twenty four, how good the starting pitching was in the regular season. But make no mistake about it, I know that there has been three straight years of playoff disappointments. This is still a team that, in my opinion, and I think in the opinions of many, probably is in the top five or top six when it comes to favorite for the World Series not only next year but for years to come. And when you're in that status, when you made seven straight playoffs and you're likely you know you're hoping to make ten or more straight as you move forward, your decisions on who you want to add to your core, a lot of times it should be based off who's going to help you out in the playoffs versus who's going to help you out in the regular season. And that's what we're talking about when it comes to aiming higher. Someone like a Nathan Valdi, like a Chris Sale has had clear playoff success. Both of those have played big roles in World Series runs for their teams, and I know Charlie Morton did the same thing for us in the past. But with his age, I agree with you. He's someone who definitely is there to have a nice, you know, stopguar not stop gap, but safety valve type option. He could be your sixth starter, especially as Strider is going to be out for the first of the season, but they definitely need to aim higher for someone who could be a difference maker in the playoffs. But Nathan Valdi is just one name now that has been connected to the Braves this offseason. In that same piece where Poissan talked about Charlie Morton coming back, Boston Red Sox free agent pitcher Nick Pavetta a familiar name to Braves fans. We've faced him many a time over the years. He is someone who had a pretty decent season for Boston. They did offer him a qualifying offer. The latest report is that he's probably likely to decline it. But the Braves seem to potentially be a team that will have interest in Paveda as being maybe a mid tier type starter, not necessarily to the level of perhaps in Nathan Avaldi. But if Evaldi were to price himself out of the Braves range, maybe Paveda becomes an option. But Steven, I think you had an interesting take about Paveda earlier today. With that qualifying offer, why would the Braves still have interest in him even though that qualifying offer is attached to him.

00:19:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, So qualifying offers are are a funny thing. They can be a tricky thing. So obviously, you know, the qualifying offer is essentially that you know, the top usually eight to ten free agents that are free agent class all get a qualifying offer attached to the name. Essentially means that whoever signs them, you know, if another team signs that free agent, then the team that that player just left gets a draft pick as compensation. And that also means that the team that signs them loses a draft pick or multiple draft picks depending on luxury tax and you know, payroll. It's it's kind of it gets a little bit complicated, but effectively, when you have a player that's on a qualifying offer like Pavetta, it it suppresses his market because now there's an extra tax essentially added to his to signing him, right, you have to pay him the money that you're gonna pay him no matter what, but then you also have to give up the draft pick. And for a lot of teams that's a non starter, like they just won't go near that, like they value draft picks too much. Depending on where you are in the luxury a payroll threshold, it can actually be a pretty high draft pick too, So so for a lot of teams that's a non starter. They're just not going to sign a qualifying offer free agent, which means that even though the qualifying offer is an extra tax that that adds what you have to pay a lot of times you can actually get pretty good value on these guys, especially if they're fringe qualifying offer guys like Paveta. People were very surprised that Paveta was gonna get that. He ended up getting one. Not a lot of people saw that coming. And so when you have guys like that that are right on the edge of should they get a qualifying offer, shouldn't they The amount of the amount that their market gets suppressed by that QO can be so much that they theyre actually become a bargain essentially. And I don't know, I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen with Paveta, but that certainly can happen. I remember a few years ago it happened to Craig Kimberle, and he didn't end up signing to like June the year that he signed with the Cubs because teams didn't want to pay for the draft pick along with the free agent contract. I think it happened to Dallas Catcule as well. I think the Braves are actually the one that ended up signing Dallas CaCO for a very cheap contract. This was a perfect example of what I'm talking about that qualifying offer can be. So it can be such a deterrent for teams that you can actually end up getting guys pretty cheap, and the qualifying or the draft pick you have to give up ends up being the most expensive thing you have to give up to get them. So we'll see what that has I mean, I I don't I'm I don't love Nick Povetta as a pitcher quite honestly. I think he's more of a back end guy than a front end guy. He has a real home run problem. He gives up a ton of homers. He's solid, don't get me wrong, He's not bad. But he's another one of those guys where I would hope the Braves would aim higher first and then maybe pivot to Paveta if it doesn't work out, because there's a decent amount of pitching in this market. There's there's ways to go get really good pictures if you want to, and even on the trade market as well, which we talked about in our last episode. So but yeah, the qualifying The qualifying offer can be a tricky thing. It can go both ways. It's kind of a blood sword. But it'll be to see how it plays out. For Paveta, I'm guessing his market is as much more suppressed now than it was going to be before the Red Sox slapped that qualifying offer on them.

00:23:10
Speaker 1: And one final thought on this is that I agree with you and the thing about it is this is that it's when we talk about a Morton or when we talk about a Pavetta, I think that the Bray's interest in those pictures are them doing their due diligence. They want to make sure there's levels to this right. They want to make sure that they're covered. If they're you know, top guys that they want to go get are either two pricing or it just you know, doesn't fit in terms of, you know, the preferences that those arms have. They want to be able to have backup options that they can go get. Pavetta and Charlie Morton are those options. But I think that when you talk about upside, it's not only you know upside that we've recently seen in terms of Nathan and the Valdi And then you know he had another pretty good year last year, but also a former teammate of Nathan the Avaldes Jordan Montgomery. You know, in Poissan's piece he talked about that Jordan Montgomery is one of the most likely players to be traded and the Diamondbacks would even potentially pay down you know, his contract that right there is at absolutely up Alex and Thopulis's ali and I think that anybody would agree that Jordan Montgomery probably has a higher ceiling than than Nick Pavetta. So when we see these names and we'll probably seem more connected to the Braves, I think that it's just him doing their due diligence on backup options. At the end of the day, I still think they're going to go with a player that could be a good number two option even in the playoffs, someone with a proven track record. And I think that's why you are going to see them really try for an Eabaldi or a Montgomery, for instance, before they set off for a Morton or a Pavetta.

00:24:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean they're gonna add somebody like you know. In his in his postseason presser, Alex talked about how pitching wasn't going to be a priority they had. You know, they love their top four with Strider, Sale, Lopez and Swollenbach. And again one of those things you just can't listen to a word that comes out of Alex's mouth, and those things like pitching was always going to be a priority, you know, losing Max, potentially losing Morton, you know, all the guys coming back having tons of inning on their arm last year. They need to be in the market, and I think they need to be. I don't know if they'll be in the very top of the market, like I don't think Corbyn Burns is coming to Atlanta, but that next tier, like the you know of Aldi tier, I think the Braves will be heavily in that market, if not the trade market. What you were talking about with Jordan Montgomery, you know, Kevin Gollsman, the guys we talked about, even like a guy like Zach Gallon. People, you know, people forget Zach Gallon's on his last year of control with the Diamondbacks and they have not been able to sign him to an extension. And usually small market teams who get star players that close to free agency. I'm not saying they definitely trade him, but they'll talk about they'll have conversations about trading Zach Gallen this winter. We'll see if anything happens. But so there are some interesting names in the trade market as well. But the Braves are going to be aggressive in the pitching market. I have a strong feeling.

00:25:52
Speaker 1: Well, we talk about what the priorities are for the Braves this off season, well, I think another you know, very interesting, you know, kind of on the batburner, kind of an underrated aspect of the Braves offseason is how are we going to watch the Braves in twenty and twenty five and beyond. When we talk about what potentially is a priority for this Braves team, we can talk about several different topics topics, but for the Braves fan base, probably at the top of their priority list is getting settled on how they can watch the Braves in twenty and twenty five and moving forward. And Steven, you have done a marvelous job, marvelous job through writing over at Battery Power as well as you know a couple of excerpts that you have had here on on the Hammer territory. What is the latest with that, because we could see a pretty substantial update later this week as far as the scenario goes when it comes to the Braves and how they can be viewed by the fan base and baseball fans in general in twenty twenty five and beyond.

00:26:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're coming to the end of this thing. Finally. You know Diamond Sports Group, who is the company that operates it. Used to be called Ballet Sports, is now called FanDuel Sports, but the company that operates that network is Diamond Sports Group. They've been in bankruptcy for about eighteen months. Brad and I covered all this on a show we did a few weeks ago, and essentially what's happening is they are trying to restructure their company in a way that allows them to exit bankruptcy court and still function as an operating company. And in order to do that, they have to put forth a plan in front of the bankruptcy court and that plan has to be accepted by the judge and the creditors. Well, the hearing for that is this week. It's at the end of this week. I think it's a two day hearing. I think it's a Thursday Friday hearing. The deadline for any objections to the restructuring plan was last week, and both the Major League Baseball and the Atlanta Braves both objected formally objected to the plan, which basically means they're telling the courts they don't think the plan is. They don't think the plan is good enough for Diamond Sports Group to be able to stay out of bankruptcy again a year from now or two years from now. They think if this plan was approved by the court, that Diamond Sports would just be right back in bankruptcy next year or the year after. And so we're gonna get an answer to this. And again it matters for Braves fans because if Diamond Sports Group does not make it out of bankruptcy court, then where the Braves are gonna be on TV in twenty twenty five is just completely up in the air. We don't know, you know, other teams Major League Baseball has taken over production of their broadcast. I'm guessing that's what would happen with the Braves. The Braves are a bigger Braves are a different animal, though that's a bigger market. I don't know that it would be just a one for one like they did with the Diamondbacks or the Padres or whoever. So again, if they if Diamond Sports does not come out of bankruptcy court, and we should know in the next you know, the hearing is Thursday and Friday. I don't know that we'll get an answer Thursday Friday. It might be Monday Tuesday before we actually get a ruling. But in the next probably five seven days, we'll have an answer to this. And if they get approved. If the court approves the deal, then where you watch the Braves and how you watch the Bridge in twenty twenty five will largely go unchanged. You'll watch it on the same channel that you did last year, probably with the same announcers, you know, Brandon CJ, same pregame, same postgame, all that stuff will probably be the exact thame. We probably won't even notice the difference if the if their plan gets denied by the court, however, it's up in the air, and of course we'll cover it, you know, we're not going to just leave you guys out to try. We'll cover it in its totality once we have more answers. But that hearing is this week, and so we are finally, after about an eighteen month long bankruptcy court battle, we're kind of nearing the end of this thing where we're finally going to get some answers and you know, hopefully a little clearer picture of where and how you can watch Braves baseball moving forward.

00:29:59
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it's it's important right because you know that that that's you know, with the Braves being as big of a regional you know, overall asset that they are. I know that's why Dinond Sports Groupe wants to hang on to them. But I know that's why the Braves want the most for their fan base to be able to make it to where they can view them as you know, easily as possible. So it's gonna be very interesting to see how that plays out for the rest of the off season. One final move of no you know happened on Monday, Stephen. The Braves did make a trade and it was for a shortstop, Nick Allen from the Athletics. The Braves sent over a minor league pitcher, Jared Johnson in exchange for Nick Allen. Now, those who you know, no, going into this offseason, that shortstop probably was one of the more clear areas where the Braves could use and upgrade. If your initial reaction to this trade was that Nick Allen was the braves solution to basically build their shortstop position. That's not into ad Alt. This move is very much reminiscent of past moves that we've seen. This is much a move, much closer to a Zach short or a Luke Williams than it is bringing in somebody who's probably even going to have a chance to challenge Orlando Arcia for the shortstop position. But one thing that I think is of note, Stephen, is that Alex and Thopolis has made these type of moves before.

00:31:19
Speaker 2: Now.

00:31:20
Speaker 1: I think there's just as much of a chance that Allen gets designated for assignment due to another move before the off season is over than it is that he actually is on the forty men roster or on the opening day roster. But his key, key strength is defense, and I think that that is something that the Braves consistently show with their moves when it comes to the shortstop that they want. They want strong defenders. That's the reason why Orlando Arcia has maintained his job over the past couple of years despite his offensive struggles the reliability of his defense. With that in mind, I'm not saying that if the right opportunity came along, the Braves wouldn't go try to get a shortstop upgrade. But anybody who's potentially hoping for some type a big trade, or maybe the Brave's going and spending the money that would take to bring in Willie Adamas. I just don't see it happen now. I think, at the very least it's unlikely because at the end of the day, they want to value good deepense at the shortstop position because it's cheaper to be able to find that than someone who is an offensive producer. I may be reading too much into this move, but I think that that's a fair takeaway. What are your thoughts from the acquisition of Nick Allen?

00:32:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it was. It was an interesting move for a couple of reasons. Nick Allen is on the forty men roster. He was a major league player with the A's, so obviously, when you get traded, if you're on the forty men roster of the team that you're leaving, you automatically get put on the forty men roster of the team that you're joining. So he's on the forty men roster. He has no minor league options, which is critical here because you know if he had minor league options, then you would say, well, this is just a guy you can play at Gwinnette if you have some injuries. You know, he can be kind of an insurance policy. So you're not having to sign with Mirrifield and g or show off the scrap heat because you don't have anybody else. But the fact that he doesn't have minor league options it complicates it. I actually thought as soon as I saw the move, well, the first thing I did when I saw the move was I looked up Nick Allen to just see how good of a player it was. He has really good minor league numbers in terms of offense. His major league numbers across three seasons with the A's legitimately maybe the worst offensive profile I've ever seen in my life. I'd never seen some of the numbers, Like his average excel velocity over like three years with the AIDS is like eighty three miles an hour, which is I legit I don't know if I've ever seen that. Like Duranciarte was like eighty four eighty five back when he was a brave and he was, you know, the slappiest hitter of all slap hitters. So this guy is a zero power offensive, you know player, he's you know, like you said, it's a it's a very much a defensive job that he's holding currently. So I'm you know, obviously, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they dfad him to try to clear him, get him through waivers so they could send him to Gwinnet. That's what I think is gonna happen. You know, you get these guys in the off season that kind of go through this whole shuttle of getting claimed and then dfaid and then claimed and then dfaid, and teams are just trying to get them to clear waivers so they can send them to Gwinnett or you know, the miners. And as a minor league player, Nick Allen makes a lot of sense for the Braves to have depth, but the fact that he doesn't have options complicates that. So they're gonna have to figure out a way. I'm guessing they'll dfa him at some point to see if they can get him to clear waivers and they can send him down. But if he's on the team, he's obviously gonna be a backup. And that's kind of the other notable thing to me. Is when I saw the Brids were looking for backup shortstops, it kind of told me that the Braves aren't necessarily looking to improve the starting shortstop, because if the Braids were looking to improve the starting shortstop, Orlando Orcia would be the backup shortstop. And so you can kind of connect the dots there. I do think other needs have jumped shortstop. I think outfield with the injury and Celnick being so bad last year. I think, you know, high leverage reliever now is a is a place they gotta go add, and starter I think all of those have jumped shortstop in terms of what the Braves need. I think the Braves think if they can bat Orlando ninth, they can live with it. I don't love it. I desperately want the Braves to move on from Orlando, but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen. This offseason. We'll see things could change. But yeah, when I saw that move, the first thing I thought was he doesn't have any minding the options, so he's probably gonna get dfa'ed soon. Second thing I thought was, wow, this guy can't hit it all. It's gonna be the backup shortstop and I'm guessing Orlando is gonna be the starter next year, but we'll see well.

00:35:40
Speaker 1: And the thing that we'll hit on, you know, as we wrap up this edition in the Hammer Territory podcast is that I don't want anyone, you know, to each their own how they feel, but I think it's important to mention that, you know, one of the factors playing into does it make sense for the Braves to try to truly go after a shortstop upgrade is kind of the lack of options, right, Like we talked about it on the trade show, There's just not many like middle tier shortstop options out there. If it's a left handed hitting shortstop, it likely is a franchise type player that you either don't want to pay the price to go get or the team that has them don't want to trade him. I know we talked about Corey Seeger. I highly doubt that that's going to happen. You yourself said he's not going to be on the team. But even when it comes to free agency, I don't necessarily think the Braids are going to pay more than Danzby Swonson got from the Cubs to try to get Willia Domas Hasan Kim does make some sense, but there's a lot of teams that are going to be going after his services. I do think he would be a great addition to this offseason for the Braise, But that's one option. That's one option, and that's why I think it makes sense for Atlanta. I don't necessarily know if it makes sense. It's the right word. That's why I get the logic behind that. If they're going to spend significantly, it likely is going to be in the outfield where they can have multiple options that they can go to based off price and all that different stuff, versus potentially going overboard or paying too much for a short stop upgrade.

00:37:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the argument. That's the logic of it is that you know, you're limited. You know, Alex says this all the time. You're limited to the options out there. You know, if you need a short stop, you're limited to who's available. And Willia Damas is the biggest name on the list. But like the Dodgers are in on Willie Domas, potentially the Mets are on on Willia Domas. You know he there was a report that he's willing to change positions, maybe play third. You know that opens up his market to up maybe a bunch of other teams too, And so you know, if you're having to compete with the Dodgers and the Mets for anybody that's not that's not a great start, you know. And then like you said, you know, Kim has some injury stuff that's tricky. The contract is, you know, the predictions are all over the place, and nobody has any idea what Kim's gonna get it. You know, he might be priced out of Atlanta as well. So yeah, I mean, you just look at the options. Not a ton of great options. I still love my guy Willy cash Strow for the twins who can play shortstop. But you know, I'm you know, that's a long shot just because so many names out there, the odds of that being the one name they trade for is pretty low. But yeah, my guess is Orlando's going to be the starter next year, and the Braves look to upgrade everywhere else. They look to upgrade the outfield, upgrade the rotation, upgrade to the bullpen. And you know, that's you can make the you can make that case that that's the right way to go. I'm not saying they're wrong for that I'll have to see the actual names that get added to the team before I pass any judgment, But I can understand the logic where there's just not a lot of names available for that position and you're not going to force anything, so you try to upgrade the other areas of the team where there are names you like. And I think that's what the Braves are going to do.

00:38:41
Speaker 1: And who knows. We talk about, you know, having faith that Sean Murphy can regain his offensive, you know value, you know, in the in the near future. I know Orlando Arcia never had the track record of a Sean Murphy, but hey, just we're what eighteen months removed from Marline being an All Star because of how good he was in the twenty twenty three season. I'm not I don't get me wrong. I'm not being facetious. I'm not saying he's gonna do that again. But my point is is that it seems as if the Braves may be more satisfied with just sticking for Orlando, then some may hope. But if that's the case, you know, hopefully they'll make the upgrades elsewhere to make it to where offense from Orlando is not as big of a need moving forward, Steven, do you have anything else on for us on this edition of the Hammer Territory Podcast.

00:39:28
Speaker 2: No, you know we're getting free agent contracts now. You know, Travis Darnaut is the big one that happened today. But a Braves move could pop at any point and obviously when it does, we'll be here to cover it. We usually try to get on within thirty minutes of the deal breaking, so you know, make sure you subscribe, make sure you're you know, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all the places, and know we appreciate all the support as always absolutely.

00:39:55
Speaker 1: And the great thing about it is is that being a part of the Found Territory family of podcasts, you know, you have great perspectives to be able to enjoy from many different teams. You know, in terms of what teams can be going after Wansto, that's not the Braves, but you have a plethora of Foul Territory team podcast that could be talking about that. Whatever you choose to listen to, that content will be there for you wherever you choose to describe, along with Hammer Territory, YouTube, Spotify, where every Apple, wherever you choose to listen, that's where we'll be for free. Just hit that subscribe button wherever you listen, and that will allow for us to reach as many people as possible that enjoy our content. For Steven Talbert, you can find him be Underscore Outliers on Twitter, slash x. My name is Sean Coleman at stats sac on Twitter, at slash x, at Hammi Territory, across all ful of them to social media. Until next time, go braves. We'll talk to you again soon here on the Hammer Territory podcast