Dolphins Punished for Tampering Allegations; Training Camp Whispers

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL podcast is a spicy that's spicyfol so from the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's around the NFL. UM, Dan Hansas, got some heroes with me. Greg Rosetal, Mark Sessler, all right, good job NFL. I see, I see you. I see what you're doing. You're trying to clear the decks. Nothing to see here, drop some news on Monday, although we know that story is not over yet around Deshaun Watson. Now, let's throw out the next wave that the second worst story of the offseason. Let's try to like get that off the table ahead of the Hall of Fame game. The efforts there, Greg, you gotta give him credit for the effort being there well, and I appreciate the way they structured it so we could get the minisott out Monday kind of clear our deck here, but also gave us a nice meatia topic to start this show with. Maybe they're they're planning it around up. Thank you, League. There was there was a There were several funny moments leading up today's today's taping. UM. One of them was when Mark realized in real time that we were actually doing extra show this week, that the Monday show wasn't replacing one of the initially and you can actually see the lights go out behind the eyes but not well no, so you know, we we decide typically a day before, what we're gonna do with our segment outside of the news part of the show, and we all put we all put our certain um personal stamp and were prepared in our own ways for it. And this was which will come later in the week, but it was it quite involved UM segment that took a lot of imagination and I thought, you know, personal, why are you keeping it a secret? Well, it's it's team slogans. And I spent like three hours coming up with a variety of teams slogan we're gonna do today, We're gonna do four minutes before when we were gonna tape an hour ago, that we're switching gears, and so it was suddenly you know, That's why I felt a little um agitated. Yeah, we all were dealing with it at the same time. We all found out that we had to switch the schedule, and U some handled it, uh more gracefully than others. But here we are didn't have a meltdown or anything. I don't even that didn't even say anything. Now, no meltdown. I was just saying there was any it Yeah, okay, see, I was just I'm just saying there was a lot of concern on your part. It's not the way pre show energy a guy. You're a big time prep guy. To your point, though it's Big Rod week, it does feel like Big Rod week because frankly, this story and we can get into it, you know, in a minute, but like it's been so off the radar. I didn't necessarily believe he was going to drop the hammer as much as he did, which I think was a pleasant surprise. Uh. And then he still got this three day peer it which is now down to two to decide on Watson. And I really think it's like his chance uh to be a hero, to like make a to do something that his employees and the fans of the NFL, I think, for the most part, will really appreciate and referring to Watson sat Watson in terms of appealing that suspension. So I think those two things in a row would be a very positive week for Roger Goodell in a way that his disciplined decisions in the past have often not been, you know, And I it's a rare chance to go be a hero, So go be a hero. Rog and I'll also add and yes, we're about to get into it. There was a neatness to the resolution of this Dolphins saga that almost feels it feels very convenient. He's gotten some criticism about this one. This one's buttoned up pretty tight. So we're gonna get into that. We're gonna also have some yes, Connor or team slogans. We're gonna push to tomorrow, uh later today. Mark is okay, he's absolutely excited about what's occurring. We're gonna hit some training camp whispers instead to get you caught up on what's going on and camps. Training camps are obviously well underway now, and we're gonna what's kind of jumping out to us that's interesting. But first, yes, let's get to the news. The way that the Dolphins simply pretended the rules did not exist, um is mind boggling. What if Ian gets an email or a text from someone upstairs, like the editorializing, you know, we don't like that from music. I agree with them, but I I was I liked it. The graver it it took him back enough that he cut it Uh, but it is then. It is when the investigation of the Miami Dolphins is all said and done, the things that Brian Floor has brought to light, so much of it turned out to be absolutely true and what's or maybe all of it, So let's get into it here. The NFL announced Tuesday that the Miami Dolphins will for a fit their two thousand three first round pick and two thousand third round pick, while team owner Stephen Ross has been suspended through October following an investigation into whether the organized organization violated league policies pertaining to the integrity of the game. This investigation was led by UH former u S attorney and SEC chairperson Mary Joe White, lasted six months focused on two areas. And yes, there was tampering that involved Tom Brady and Sean Payton numerous times. But also notable here mark the league found or the investigation found that the Brian Flores allegations of tanking and getting paid money the head coach to lose games UH a few seasons back was something that was done in jest or not in a serious manner. So there was no discipline in that department, which is very notable here. But otherwise, the Dolphins got banged. They did, and that animal probably is annoyed by it. But I think that to Greg's point, Roger Goodell did the right thing here and it was a severe punishment. Ross is also being fine one point five million, which is probably like three dimes falling out of his pocket. I don't know what it, um, I'm not. I don't know what an owner not being allowed to be around the team until October that feels sort of like a hollow punishment to me. But the Dolphins, um, you know, they Deshaun Watson. Scenario was called egregious, and that was a correct word for it. This is egregious. You've not seen a team do this. They tampered with Tom Brady after the twenty nine season, after last when he was a Patriot, and now if you think about it, because one big thing facing the Dolphins in general, they lose a first round pick and a third round pick. This one that they have two first round picks going into the next draft, but they lose one of those. This was the season where they were going to evaluate to uh and maybe decide do we have the ammunition to go get his replacement if we want to move up and down the draft. Your pursuit of Tom Brady multiple times and of Sean Payton potentially stripped your ability to control the draft and get the better quarterback down the road. Right because they still have an extra draft pick. They had a couple. Uh, now they lose one. It's a serious punishment. And the wording that the NFL used in terms of the way that they tampered that it was unprecedented in scope. Uh was really saying something Now. I was thinking, like the reporting that Ben Volend did about this story, uh in the Boston Globes sort of felt slept under the radar, and Florio backed it up as well back in April, Uh that they were trying to get Tom Brady to potentially become an owner and maybe eventually slash player. And he is a free agent after this offseason. So I don't think it's that crazy to think, like, if he wants to keep playing, he might not be on the Bucks next year, and the Dolphins were a pretty logical place considering he's had these two conversations. I don't foresee that happening just because, uh, it would look so bad. But if he is on the Dolphins, he just lost you know, his own first round pick for next year. IM not gonna be as good a team he's got if he wants to be a little bit of an owner there. Yeah, and Steven Ross said in a statement, Greg you mentioned this and was just kind of funny, like the spin of it all. Ross's statement, the independent investigation cleared our organization on any issues related to tanking and all of Brian Flores's other allegations. As I have said all along, these allegations were false, malicious, and defamatory and this issue is now put to rest. As as is this the statement that they were supposed to put out if the decision was the other decision where they were cleared of all wrongdoing. I'm missing something. There's a statement from my multibillionaire. I mean it is we've seen this in in politics, but as in life that like you can just create your own reality and just say what you want and at least there will be a segment of people that might listen to it. Because Flores's allegations about the tampering led directly to them losing these picks, and how he phrased that it turned down the tanking, that they didn't find them guilty that I do want to kind of point out how that's that's misleading to say it that way. The investigation concluded concluded they did not intentionally lose games, but it also concluded that many times the owner expressed that he prioritized their draft position versus win loss record, and that was to their team president, was to their GM, it was to coach Flores, who at the time, uh, let people know that he was not okay with this in writing that multiple times he said, look, the draft picks more important than winning. He said that to the coach. They also confirmed that he said the hundred thousand dollar um line two floors about losing games, and they brush it off as a joke, like that's where it says. This feels a little neat, that's where it comes. And they confirmed that, like that's in there, that that he was prioritizing the draft. Maybe the investigation turned over enough rocks where they felt that there really wasn't a serious offer to pay money for losses because the other stuff, let's just be honest, let's be uh, you know, grown ups here. Stuff happens all the time in the league now, and not just the NFL all but sports I hear you, but like when you hear something from your boss, sometimes they don't need to exactly say what they want for you to make it clear what they want. And if you have an owner of a football team, letting the coach know that winning is not our goal here this year, I think that that is a problem, that's problematic, that is punishable. Maybe it's a little more surfacing than in other organizations, but again we don't We're not priview to what's going on, uh in other organizations like the Browns when they were in their tank, or any other number of teams you could point out. I also think it's important to bring up what Brian Flores had to say in his statement after this came out, because obviously he is a central figure in all of this. I am thankful that the NFL's investigator found my factual allegations against Stephen Ross are true. At the same time, I am disappointed to learn that the investigator minimized Mr Ross's offers and pressure to tank games, especially when I wrote and submitted a letter at the time to Dolphins executives documenting my serious concerns regarding this subject at the time, which the investigator has in her possession. Then he goes on to add that Mr Ross will avoid any meaningful consequence. Um, and that's true because the fine Listen, a million dollars or whatever is a lot to anyone, but maybe not so much too old as we're talking about. And also his suspension October October, we just did a segment about October four. Mark, that's the end of week four, So week six he's back. He's barred from league meetings and things of that nature for the season or the year or whatever. But otherwise, this is any This is not something that's gonna throw his ownership too far off course, the more that we learned about this, and the more that you dig into the investigation, I just don't think they went far enough. I think the tanking thing, uh they You're right, they made it too neat because when an owner it doesn't have to even be put in writing. You're creating an environment, and that's what that's what Steven Ross did. He created an environment where it was very clear I think two people about what the tanking thing that. Remember, we called it the fish tank because there were multiple reports from the Miami Herald that talked about the fact that this was what the Dolphins were doing, and they're not the only team in that league. The Browns have done this. We can look at a team like the Bears that are moving pieces left and right for picks to rebuild. Essentially, it's it's what you do in sports, you rebuild. The Dolphins did it more severely, and they were let off the hook on this one. My well, that's a great point. Mark totally suppose was all right. It was just it was also said with a lot of confidence, and I think that's what justin. It was just it was coming. It came across. I hear what Flores is saying. And that's why I'm torn on this because initially my expectations are so low. I'm like, Okay, theyon a third, that's that's a significant punishment that they did anything and really called him out. It is embarrassing. I think Steven Ross has had a lot of um bad moments as Dolphins owner, a lot of rough times, a lot of criticism UH coming his way, but like Dan Snyder, Uh to be suspended it's certainly is embarrassing and is a black mark on your record. On the other hand, I totally agree with Brian Flores that Ultimately, in the long run, it's not gonna hurt Stephen Ross that much. It'll hurt his football team certainly with the draft picks. You know, it was the same you know, they took a first rounder away from the Patriots for deflate gate. Still, if you look back on that, they took a second and a third for bounty gate back in the day. So it's very it's a little confusing to figure out where when punishment is coming down. They could have gone even bigger on it. And I appreciated that flores Um found the integrity the game part of his complaints in law suits so important because ultimately his lawsuit, in the order that they he presented it prioritized the racial component and what is happening in terms of firing and hiring black coaches in the league. And I think that's what he led with and that was important. But he also wanted to take out his former boss's kneecaps with the tampering stuff and the Brady stuff, and he absolutely did that. On the way out the building. He hurt his former boss in a very meaningful way. And that's why the way that he put out that lawsuit and the statements way back when this first started, was very calculated and I think ultimately very effective. Don't mess with Brian Flores. Um, all right, that's that they should give that pick to the Pats, you know, maybe Pats and Bucks because I think that, you know, these are two organizations that they haven't had enough success. That's where your argument falls off, you know, and that's who they were messing with. They were messing with the Pats. You know, you kicked Tom Brady out the door, so and nothing happens to Tom Brady or Sean Payton in this By the way, do we put any yeah, this right, it's kind of sleeping on at Saints, the team that should also get a pick. I guess, yeah, Oh, another team that you adore. Um, tom Brady, the tom Brady nous of all this, which makes it even more fascinating story. Do we let him off the hook? I guess he's just the player. But he was potentially in the conversation he was to get into the front office or that was kind of the pitch. So if his potential down the line ownership or front office position and begins with being involved in this nefarious malarkey, I guess I'm really excited. I have to say for the Tom Brady ownership experience. I mean, at least he didn't destroy a cell phone. This time around, it'll be like the Derek Jeter, you know, ownership experience in Florida. Well, we don't need to do like that. Um. It's funny because Brady literally could have been trying to get to the Dolphins. This seas that if Flores didn't drop this in the time that he did, if you look at the timing, that's sort of when when he backed off, the whole Dolphins ideas wild wild. All right, let's move on. Let's get caught up with other NFL news. This went down on Monday. Deebo Samuel and the forty Niners all good, everything's fine. The two sides have agreed on a three year contract extension worth up to seventy three point five million, with fifty eight point one million guaranteed. The Niners officially announced the extension after rap Sheet reported it on Sunday. John Lynch said they are overjoyed to have Deebo Samuel, and they should be because he's that important to their offense. Once again, Mark, I feel like we're a little used, like we were a part of this whole saga that was ultimately Uh. Samuel was never looking to go anywhere. He never really wanted to be traded. He just wanted his money and he got it. And we helped it by making it a bigger story by inflaming tension just by talking about it and acting as if he could be traded on draft weekend and all that there was going on with wider reading. I'm reading an article here a Michael Irvin, our our co hot, our colleague. I've never spoken with him, but he did come into the newsroom that one time. And wait, we saw him at the draft like about eight nine years ago in New York in the after hours bar, and Mike was feeling no pain, belly up against the bar. Could not have been nicer to us, our friend. That happened this draft in Las Vegas too, when there was an after party and I went up and actually I don't I didn't, he didn't intend this. But there was a group of three of us talking and Michael Irvan was telling a very animated story and in a fatherly fashion, put his hand on my shoulder at a moment to make so I do think that I have a real friend pretty close and I know, but he's also like he's a gigantic human being. Also with Irvin and I the same We were all in that um post draft in Vague guess, in that same bar area and it was in the there was like a hallway with where the casino was, and he's Michael Irvin. You know, everyone's looking at him, and it is interesting. And I give credit to Mike, our friend that he's still like that same gregarious, fun dude when he lives his entire life in the fish ball anyway where I think he lives his truth in a way and he lives he is who he is in a way that we should all aspire to. Should we try to get him on the show, and we probably literally are. Why however, he would say yes in a second, Why doesn't Michael on the show? Long term short term goal here, Let's get Irvan on. You got it. That draft party was so fun that you guys were at while I was in the hotel room editing the podcast. Loved it. You're not there yet, justin one day you can you could push that off on someone and watch out. By the way, Shaun Kelly stepped up in a big spot for our Deshaun Watson emergency podcast didn't skip a beat, So let's keep let's keep our eye on the prize. I guess what I'm saying. I'm proud of Sean. I'm glad he did a good job. He did an excellent job communicating before and after the show, your regular Baker Mayfield like loudly cheering on long completions by Sam Darnold right now. Michael Irvin was on nine point seven the game in San Francisco, and he said he he said he really wanted to be moved. He spoke to him at the time. He was emotional. He wanted to get out of there. I do think that that was the difference between his situation and every other wide receiver this offseason is that at that time he was truly upset. And and that's why I give John Lynch and Kyle Janna and some credit. Never make this thing public. They didn't say a word about all this other than just that they love Diebo Samuel and they want to work it out. They just they didn't. They were not interested. And you're right, Dan, I don't think a trade was ever going to happen because they want Deebo Samuel so much they just let it come down and then they gave out the money. And the fact that this a J. Brown and McLaurin in d K. They all basically signed the exact same contract. There's little differences here and there, and I want to get into one of him with debo. But but that made it easier and they played it perfectly. I would also note that the contract does not have language. According to Kyle Shanhon about his role, which was a big sticking point, was um, it kind of well, it depends they have an incentive they they you can make if you're Deebo Samuel an extra I think it was six hundred plus thousand dollars if he gets three hundred eight yards rushing. Now that's an incent but it doesn't prohibit though that that was one concerned win for the nine, right, it gives him an incentive to do it. Says that he was on board with that, and he gets another hundred plus thousand on top of that if he has three rushing touchdown. So it's sort of in the mix that like, hey, we're not gonna totally back. That would probably be what do I know, but unprecedented if in the contract. It says you can't use him in certain ways on the in terms of strategy, you know, on the field, right, I don't know if that exists, but he also needs to watch four hours of film per week according to the I guess my point is like that you say that the hand really well, and we we all thought, like the Cardinals and and the agent for Kyler Murray didn't handle it so well. But at the end of the day, like money talks and we're just along for the ride, right, But in in some cases and in a j Brown pointed this out on Twitter, like the organization doesn't want to pay the money, and I think he rightly to all the Titans fans or anyone else that was trying to put any blame on him, was like, look, we look, we got we all have the same contract, all right. The Eagles are ready to pay it. The Titans didn't want to pay it. They're the ones that got in the future. Because we're always looking to be how can we be a better smarter podcast next offseason? Should we be targeting the types of players that are maybe below that Deebo Samuel Kyler Murray line, you know, and like, all right, this one is worth kind of tracking more closely because the team might be making a football related decision, but what it's a superstar player and that's what Deebo Samuel is. You know what I'm saying, right, I don't think Brown got Brown did get moved, and that was surprising, you know what I mean, because it's like one out of four. We do this a lot though. I feel like at the end of every off season, we always are like, well, we're not gonna get caught in whatever's happened next offseason. And then you get back to the next off you know, you get to February, it's like, oh, shoot, we have three hours of content to fill, Like, what are we gonna talk about? It's yeah, what are you gonna talk about? You're gonna talk about football stories. Nothing will change, we will. We'll dig right in again on this top similar topic a year from now. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Bad news for the Cowboys. James Washington, who was one of the guys that was supposed to step in for that sudden and that suddenly thin wide receiver group. He's been diagnosed with a broken foot. He's out for six to ten weeks. And I don't need to tell you that a foot injury for a wide receiver. Um, you don't know when he comes back if he will be the same guy, And it might be next July. Man, I never felt myself, but now I'm better than ever. Also Van Jefferson, the Rams wide receiver, another important piece uh in a wide receiver room. This for the defending champs. He'll undergo knee surgery this week. He's uncertain for Week one. Um. Also Broncos wide receiver Tim Patrick carded off with an apparent knee injury at practice today. This happened, uh, so hopefully that's not too serious. He seemed to be a guy greg who could step up in that offense with Russell Wilson to take the next step in his career. Yeah. He he was maybe their best receiver last year, making the lead candidate even absolutely. Um and hit where he wins matches up well with where Russell Wilson wins. You deepen on the outside, certainly, But I think you know putting these three stories together, and this is why you know Dan's the host with the post here. Um, it's like it presents a contrast. Two of these teams have incredible wide receiver depth here. It's like the Rams. Yeah, that third receiver slot looks pretty grizzly. A lot of questions here now, but they still have Cooper Cup and Allen Robinson. The Broncos still have Jerry Judy in Courtland Sutton and Handler and they're good, Whereas the Cowboys have Michael Gallup coming off a torn a c l might not be ready for the start of the season. I never was that high on James Washington to begin with, right, I feel like, if you can't succeed in Pittsburgh. I know Ben was there, but like that, usually receivers find a way to succeed there and he really didn't. Um you have Gallup coming off the injury, you have Ceedee Lamb, but man, you really don't have anything else at wide out. But beyond that, like it mixed the Marii Cooper trade, which was you know, at the at the outset when it happened, they got very little for Amari Cooper. That just looks worse for the Cowboys right now. There's no depth there. Jalen tiber their rookie is a third round pick. Cowboys are gonna he's stepping around it Okay, like that'd be great. He's a third round pick who's supposed to play mostly in the slot, and I hope he's great. But if you're counting on a third round pick before I ever seen him, as you're like hard number two to start the year. That's also with a Mari Cooper because now it looks especially Dad. But for whatever reason, they weren't really into the Amari Cooper experience anymore. All right, go ahead, trade him away. But then the mistake is you don't really you're not aggressively looking for someone you could count on, slide in, count on like someone like I have an announcement to make because I'm so sick of this. I have an announcement to make, all right, the Cowboys. I have an announcement. Graver have two Will Fuller. That announcement announcement is I am now Will Fuller's agent. He is not aware of this, but I am actively now representing Will Fuller because whoever his agent is is not doing the job. He is a perfect flyer guy if he's healthy in the right mind to slide into Dallas with that quarterback in that offense and make us there is reporting out there a number of teams are into will Fuller but waiting a little bit to pick him up. Don't wait because then somebody else picks him up, and then what does that even mean? I saw that too. That's his his agent feeling the heat from hands, right, he's feeling the heat from hands. Is like, I gotta get something out there. He calls up Aaronde, my former colleague at Pro Football now Pro Football Network, uh, saying okay, that makes sense, but I'm gonna top you here. They've got twenty million dollars in cap space. You got more than I think every team in the league other than the Browns. Uh, Odell Beckham, Dallas Cowboy. It just makes too much sense. Someone should like, whatever the going rate for O b J is, just overspend and make it a three year deal and see what happens. How about this, well, Sean McVeigh mentioned Odell Beckham again, right, and the Rams have to be available till November. I get it. The Rams are confident that they're going to be able to bring him back, but money talks. If if the Cowboys are like, hey, come come rehab with us, We're not We know you won't be back to October or November that toys with the Odell Beckham painting on the wall here where he's now in a RAMS uniform and the two hour time limit. The man has the painter um behind. Uh sorry cam Akers still Odell's number. Cam Akers changed his number to number three. So Odell does come back to the Rams, he has to switch numbers. Super awkward behind Ceedee Lamb right now, Noah Brown, Jalen Tilbert, seem Faeco. How about we signed both? How about we bring Odell and Will Fuller in now as Will Fuller's agent. Yes, that's me Fuller Agent. Like, is he in the right place mentally and physically? Because you know there was some high He did get paid I believe about eleven million dollars from the Dolphins last year and between injuries there was a suspension problems. He hasn't necessarily been available. Okay, two things you need to know. He's in the best shape of his life. One two. Last year was humbling for him, but mentally he feels that was a clear the decks type year and he feels like he's never been more passionate about the sport and wanting to make an impact. While he's still turned in his prime, so old, where do I sign? All right, real quick, before we go to break, let's hit a couple more things. Orlando Brown, the tackle for the Chiefs, will report to training camp. He's there. Uh, he was upset about playing under the franchise tag. He wants that huge new contract. Mark just telling him how much he should make. Mark says, take the hundred and ninety million or ninety million, whatever it was. And I'm saying, go get your worth Orlando Brown. Again, I'm an agent, so I'm coming from the player deserves what he's worth. Maybe in person that off that because what Orlando Brown's specified while after returning to Kansas City was there weren't enough guarantees in that contract for him, so that's why he turned into land. Brown is lifted at six eight and three forty four pounds. I think that would be a good conversation in person for you and him to absolutely and sounds perilous. Finally, Ryan Carrigan Happy Trails. We saw him at the NFL Talent summit. Uh, being upstaged um you could say, by Gerald McCoy. But seemed like a very nice man and uh uh, well put together, well spoken. I could see him having a career media. Maybe we'll cross pass maybe in this building. You think that's what he was going for by being at that summit, you know what, I kind of conflated memories and for some reason I thought he was like a fifth wheel on the Jenny Garth uh and Tori Spelling discussion. But he wasn't what he was somehow. Yes, at the summit last month in Santa Monica, he was on the Hey players, let's get real, uh, him and Gerald McCoy, and they were essentially what it was like to be a player and deal with Maybe he didn't like it because he's been showing up at Commander's practices and they say in an unofficial capacity, Uh, he's kind of checking out whether he wants to become a coach potentially, but he's not ready to say whether. Ninety five and a half sacks. But I mean, that's quite a great career. That's I looked him up consistently productive. When he was on the stage, I looked him up and said, Wow, that's a nice career for the form four Pro Bowls. I've seen people try to make Hall of Fame cases around pass rushers with similar ish profile. I don't think Ryan Kerrigan will get any Hall of Fame pop and I wouldn't personally put him in that category. But like four Pro bowls, like sometimes those guys they get thrown in the mix. You wonder Mark, given his ties to the commanders, what he feels about a certain five sided government building in DC. A lot of commanders in Washington, d C. And the Pentagon. I don't beliefs. I I think it's fair to have a suspicion about what goes on in the Pentagon. It's one of my favorite training camp battles this year, Sessler v. Pentagon. Why is that such a such a in the whole thing too? All right, that's fair enough. Let's take a break and we'll be right back with spurs. All right, here we go. Now, we were given greg a heart out thirty three minutes for Mark, so we need to finish this show in that window. I I I don't treat his heart out as my heart out. Like if that's how the show flows, great and Mark can make the decision whether to leave or not at that moment um talk until sunset. If I found in the past sometimes he'll say a heart out, but um the follow like he'll still just well, it's been a big, big time week on the podcast, and you were given you were giving it to me a little bit early in the week about hands this time, and then sometimes I show up a couple of minutes late. What about the other side, Mark with the heart out stuff, like that's that's a different type of thing. What I yesterday specified that I would like to begin at eleven am. You're a big heart out guy, and then we did not start until like twelve tent Especially as your career becomes more and more ablished, I feel like you're getting more and more vociferous with the heart outs as the season goes on. Often often the heart outs become harder. I feel like I do I do? This is fiction? I do know as like lately like look add that to the AI D like we you know, we're we're we're big business now. We we signed these deals. We got a lot going on. We're trying to plan out the season. Sometimes like we got to have these meetings after the show, and I have learned it's sometimes perilous to try to have an after show meeting with Mark and be like Okay, let's talk about that thing. It's like, oh, where's Mark? Where do you go? Cartoon? This is that the listener has no concept of how fictional this all is. This is like a little fictional. I would say, it's just a little where's all right? We love you, buddy, it's love. We don't want We know our time is finite with you, and we like to draw it out as much as we can because we know what You're gone, gone, I always returned. All right, how about them? All right, let's get into it. Let's get into it, whispers from training camp, Mark, why don't you start us, buddy, I'll go to Pittsburgh. That's been the most fun one. I think it was me who said a couple of weeks ago that I found the whole who said this podcast doesn't have sex appeal? Did you hear that? That was all three of us at the same time. That was nice, That was raw. I was mentioning that. I just thought the whole Mitch Trabiski thing was a tough sell on the fan base, that why not Kenny pick it your draft, pick your rookie, just start him now and get him in there. But he has really, according to Marco Boli of The Athletic, really struggled in camp noticeably that like this is what he wrote. The Steeler's first round pick has been erratic, inconsistent throwing the ball as he has been saddled with all the third team reps throughout the ramp up period. I get that that's a little bit of a different thing. It has some believing it will be impossible for him to grow quickly enough to be a week one starter in Cincinnati, especially if Mr Robiski keeps progressing and Mason Rudolph continues to shine. It's been Mason Rudolph that a lot of players have gone out of their way to totally praise, and he was completely an afterthought in this race. So at this point I my stance on Kenny pickett Um is changing. I realized it's camp practices and stuff, but in another universe, he's shining from the neck up. He's in total command of it. His throws look perfect, and that's not the case. It's a good it's a good nug it's a good way to start. I also caution to get too caught up. We just turned the calendar over to August. He's figuring out how to play at this level. I know he knows where all the bathrooms are in the facility. But otherwise, um, he is a rookie and he's probably swimming a little bit. Let's see what he's like in three weeks. Let's see when the preseason comes around. But it does, it's starting to trend that direction with Rabinsky, which I will raise my hand and say, I didn't think this is how it was gonna play out, and maybe it is. Picket's gonna have a chance to play a lot in the preseason, But going back to O t s and mini camps, this has been the consistent drumbeat that just he is a step behind, and the Rudolph appreciation has been there as well, and he's been He's been there the longest. I I don't think Mason Rudolph has virtually any chance to start Week one, but I would absolutely take the over on one and a half Mason Rudolph starts for this season. And I and I just thinking that the worth pointing out Mason rudolph start last year against the Browns was it was a totally respectable normal, like good backup is start, That's all I'm saying, Like he he was okay, yeah, yeah, I guess for me, I'm not caught up like you guys aren't caught up in the idea of Trabinsky exploding and finding his first round status in terms of ability, But Mason rud Rudolph is below that line, even like I'd rather see Trabinsky in a new offense with a shot to lead a team in week one, then Mason Rudolph, who I think we know who he is. You can already hear people coming at me being like he literally averaged four point seven yards per attempt last year, but that you gotta watch that horrible Lions game. It wasn't crazy weather, and he just when you go look at Pro Football Reference after this season and you go to the Steelers two page, it's gonna have three different starting quarterbacks who have started multiple games, I agree, what before just moving off Pittsburgh just because I find them really interesting. There's been a lot of hype about Calvin austin Um and the rather rookie George Pickens, who was George Pickens was my favorite receiver maybe on tape in this entire class. And there are two people that Caboli and other writers are saying have not taken long to adapt, and I think could have a pretty big role this season. Austin is more of, you know, the slot guy who catches, but Pickens is a really interesting Rickie receiver. To all right, Greg, how about you give us a alright, I want to start well, I have so many you know, we were like what are we gonna get in? What are we not going to get in? I want to go positive. Let's go Travis e t n hype emphasis on the e. We didn't get to see him last year. Uh, Liz Frank, Uh, great question. I think it was a it was a foot injury last year for e t N. John Shipley, who's really good covering this team for SI dot com Jaguar Report, has said he he thinks he's a standout from day one I've been These are great daily reports that he's given. I like the teams that have a reliable daily guy. And e t N to his mind, looks like maybe the most explosive best player on that offense so far that maybe the receivers haven't stepped up quite as much. Trevor Lawrence looks like he's definitely taking a step forward. But E t N is the guy that we really haven't seen as a pro that I'm excited to see not in the Hall of Fame game. The Jaggers are playing Thursday night. They're not going to put him out there for that. I would expect he'd get some preseason snaps. We won't see him early, but he he could absolutely have a monster role for them. There are whispers that he'll be used in an Alvin Kamara type way, um a debot type way potentially, And I think it's he's got a much better offensive coaching staff this time around. The last year, I could I who's the jug head the coach last year, Rban Meyer. I could totally see him making some comment in the media like I didn't have a chance to, uh, you know, coach Travis Etien when he's blown up in October. I think that I think you had you had enough chances, Urban Meyer. I think that's a great call. And like we just talked about recently, one of the great Chris westling Um statements that he made was watch out for guys that pop in the summer and in training camp and in preseason at running back, because that's usually a sign that these guys are ready to do damage. So maybe after a wipe out rookie season, what was it? What was it? It was the Harlot Liz frame. And like, I'm not saying we're all bad, like the writers aren't bad at being scouts. I'm not the same like maybe we are, but it does feel like running back is an easier one where it's like you you know when you see it, well, you can see their conditioning, you can see that the explosion, and you can see how they're they're moving. Tyson Campbell their second your cornerback, getting a lot of hype there too, and he finished last year really strong. So that draft, that draft class that Urban had, it might end up for working out for Peterson. What a legacy to let everyone know exactly all right, let's let's stay optimistic. I like that. How about some optimism. Who's the Who's the long time? And Don Pardo of Saturday, Stevens c ago Um, Peter King, the Great Peter King of NBC Sports. Uh. He had two dispatches, well many, but among them that Wandel Robinson Um their second round pick out of Kentucky, has been quote the star of the Giants offense throughout training camp. They love the way he's looked and how explosive he's been and how he's been they've been using him all over the field, and how that could um. That could absolutely open up a Giant's offense under Brian Dable. That could use a little juicy. Also, King reported that se Kuon Barkley take this with a grain of salt if you wish, but I'm just letting you know that se Kuon Barkley quote looks very good early in camp health wise, has answered every bell uh and has had a solid off season. And you you wonder if with a better offensive line and a better coaching staff, whether Barkley can I don't know if he ever gets back to that guy flesh out of Penn State, but can be a true RB one And the most important part of all this Daniel Jones. I'll report, I can. I will not report, but I will tell you the reporting out of Giants camp just today this morning. This from Jordan's I always get this one, Ranan ronnin Here's the quote. Daniel Jones absolutely tearing it up today at Giants Camp. Connor Hughes, who recently moved from the Jets Beat to a hybrid New York Beat UM, also reported I had Daniel Jones fourteen of sixteen today with three through two touchdown passes and a pick and uh, I don't know what else to tell you other than watch out a little bit, just a little bit, keep your eye on the Giants in the NFC East. I know that the Eagles are high bunnies, and I know the Cowboys are there defending champions, but with better coaches and big step from like for them as a fun team and watch out for them when they maybe a fun team in the NFC East is a team that being the race into Scember. I want to add a little nugget to that because if you look at what happened to Kadarius Tony this offseason, and there's moments from last year where it was like, I have a good feeling this guy is going to make a big difference if he sticks with the Giants. They were gonna trade him. They decided not to do that when they drafted wan Deal Robinson. They have a very similar skill set. Instead of you know that washing away Tony's role like he's completely healed his relationship with Brian Dable, They're not like playing Kadarius Tony is a rapper, like they're playing his songs during warmups and stuff. And Darius Tony because he was a bit of a headcase last year. I well, you know exactly you said. He said that that that that appreciated. He appreciated that from the coach because it showed a willingness to build a relationship with me. And day Balls turned around and said, I think he's a very loyal, loyal, gap loyal guy about Tony. That, um, he's been a tremendous skill set. They are using Wanton, Dale Robinson and Tony. They start practice with them taking handoffs with the running backs. They're using them out of the backfield of a ton and they're gonna both be on the field at the same time. And I'm with you. I think the Giants are slightly spicy. There's a backfire potential though, when you play one of the guys on the team's rap. Like you know, some of these guys, all professional athletes or a lot tend to want to be rappers, and all rappers want to be professional athletes. That's been going on forever. But you wonder if if it's bad, if it's bad, and then Leonard Williams doesn't know it's Wandel, He's like, wow, this is terrible. I think Tony is making it very clear that it's his. Let's make it clear. Hey guys, this is the Kentucky kids like fledgling rap career, it's Tony's. It's Tony's, but Tony's to your point, we're thinking something, maybe thinking let's just make sure it's very clear. Table Tables also mentioned that, um, you know, he's been honest. He's like I like some of his songs better than others. Like Top ten Football Insider, the one Dale pick was not popular. But if you were going to pick a coach that would know how to use a guy at his size one Dale Robinson, Wow, all, I think it would be Brian Dable And maybe it's just like an Isaiah mackenzie and Buffalo role for him. To me, they're not that similar. I mean, Tony's at least fifteen pounds bigger. Um can win on the outside a little more. Uh is one of my favorite making the leap candidates. And yeah, they have that opening game in Tennessee, right, and then you get the Panthers week two before a Monday night er against the Cowboys, or maybe it's the Sunday night as a okay, show me something. Giants early be that team that Dan was talking about that gets out fast and gets everyone too excited. I would like that. How about it's mid December and the Eagles and Cowboys are eight and six battling it out for the NFC's titled with there the Giants quietly seven and seven right behind them. But if I had to pick a new team, the Giants might be it, because that's the thing that we grew up watching. And yeah, that's your neck of the woods really in Connecticut. When when we were there, and I grew up only fifteen minutes from Connecticut, you were a different part. But the part of Connecticut you were was. I would guess Giants for the moment. We would never We'd never get the Patriots, you'd get the circle full circle. But there's no Lawrence Taylor and Bill Simms and Joe Morris and Leonard Marshall there anymore. But maybe these are this new crop of players were all jell this year. I mean, Joe Morris is like fifty two years old at this point, so right, Joe Morris ain't walking through those doors. How about another whisper? All right, how about we go to uh yeah, then it we all went right. I think that I'll go to San Francisco. There was Trey Lance is has has had a slow start, according to Up and Down Not no, not, It's not the same thing as Lance fatigue. Now it's August second, bro, I don't I think this nint This is interesting, but this has Actually it's a good thing about the Niners because the reason this is happening. They talked about the fact that he was on the field with Deebo, Samuel brandan Au, George Kittle, Elijah Mitchell, Trent Williams, Mike McGlinchey, They're all out there and they were struggling, and it wasn't just because it's Trey Lance. It's because their defense has been on fire during training camp. And NFL Network was there today and they said the same thing that they view themselves as we're good with the Trey Lance thing, but what we really see ourselves is a team that centers around defense. This season, they'll they're a top five unit and they have been dominating campaign, which happened in general. Yes, but I think that sort of raises my biggest concern about the forty Niners, which is their offensive line. And right now, Trent Williams is coming off of an injury, but they're potentially you know, starting Jake Brendel at center. They have a rookie Uh Buford that they've been giving looks with the first team at guard. Aaron Banks is another guy there, brun Skill. Like on paper it could be problematic, and then you have to go up against one of the best defensive lines in the league every day in practice. It's not too surprising to me that they're getting worked. Even though the forty Niners are short a couple of linemen now they lost more res earst who had a good chance was going to make their team for the entire season, and they're their best defensive tackled Eric Arms. It's out a couple of weeks. But uh that that always like gets you worried, Like when one side of the ball for your team is just dominating the other, Like do you want to spend positive or is it because they're offensive? Wind stinks it's positive and negative. Um, I don't know. I don't know if it was a sauce gardener or maybe it was d J. Moore had to pick six of Zach Wilson. I was like, Yeah, it's time people giving an ayuk a lot of love, though I'm definitely feeling like the bound the bounce back hype year because his numbers. Actually, in the last eight games of the year, he had more receiving yards than Diebo Samuel. He was a top fifteen in the NFL receiver in the last eight games of the year. That could be a nasty escape to Shannahan Doghast during last year, right, then a nasty one to punch because Heat, to me is like a special guy. After the catch, I meant DJ read, not d J Moore, J read that that was a nice little any good roster alright, I went positive. Initially we got we gotta mentioned um our friend Carson wentz over there in Washington because I think he's like he's got the right idea that he's trying to maybe UM trying to take decided to really go ahead and start to take command. The best part of that is that you because the way we need to set that up, that also gives our producer plenty of time to dig up the drop. So I just I read there their daily practice report every day, and like early in camp, the one thing you don't see across the league is just like, well he missed a lot of receivers. Before there was tackling, before there was pads, and Washington's now added the paths to the mix. But essentially every day they're just talking about that Carson Wentz is not accurate that he misses a ton of throws against air, which has been his problem to begin with. And if you're not getting that first training camp with the team sort of preseason hype, I'm not going to overreact. Obviously, what Wentz has done on the field in regular season play is more important. But he just doesn't shoot straight. And like, if that's happening when you're going against air, it's definitely gonna happen when you're under pressure. Yeah, there was also around the Washington the erstwhile Washington football team. I guess they still are the Washington football team. Um. Curtis Samuel Um. There is quote some concern from Ron Rivera about his conditioning and he's also been dealing with some hamstring and lower back tightness. This comes after the groin injury ruined his first season with Watchington also kind of reminds you, so that's not ruling out Curtis Samuel is being a big time player for them, but remember the hype around Curtis Samuel going into free agency last year. They need him to help make Carson Wentz better. Because Carson Wentz, we know what we have here, A little scattershot. He can get hot, but he goes through cold streaks. His leadership is can be questioned fairly. He is who he is. I mean, Samuel thirty four point five million dollar contract, played eighty four offensive snaps and now there's some concern over his conditioning. I don't like that at all. Got paid though, which uh, Greg, I was just pulling up your roster projected ROSTERISA that it used to be called roster rest and then it became projected starters. Those there are two separate different franchises, franchises active, both active, projected starters very active. I believe Roster ESA is still done by the uh the news death. I was looking at the cults Um depth chart and what their starters look like because there's been so much optimism around Matt Ryan and what he brings that offense as Carson Wentz's replacement. That's just an accidental great transition, not taking credit for it. Uh. And we love Jonathan Taylor, We love Michael Hitman's ability. Um, Paris Campbell is a big part of this, though. They kind of need another guy to step up, unless you're a huge Mo Ali Cox fan. Um And according to colts dot COM's J. J. Stankovitz, yes there was a yank. There was an all glove, no field, no bat shortstop during the dark Yankee days of the early nineties named Andy Stankowitz. I remember that was a fan favorite. Could not play und a memorable name. J J. Stankovitz reports that Paris Campbell and Matt Ryan have shown a strong connection during during the early days of Culture Training Camp. We shall see if that carries over. That would be my one question about this whole Matt Ryan renaissance, said, people's well in the Midwest, obviously especially are getting pumped up about does he have enough around him to be a difference maker. As a pastor of the football, we know he'll be able to hand it off to the great running back, Paris Campbell a big piece of this. Bob Kravitz of The Athletic added to the Matt Ryan hype and the Paris Campbell hype, saying that basically Campbell is impressed NonStop. He looks as quick as explode and explosive as he did before all the health issues. So that with Matt Ryan, they said that the offense has been moving at warp speed, and I thought I took this from Frank Reich as a slapdown of Carson Wentz to some degree. He said, we had the same number of plays we had in the past, but we actually finished ten minutes earlier both days Wednesday and Thursday. And that's because of the quarterback. That's because the quarterback is pushing the temple. Mark loves Matt Ryan like they're they're two birds of a feather, you know. I'm just saying, like, I'm just saying, if it's been NonStop, he's got a heart out, he is the quarterback, Mark would they're both intense whites. Well, they are saying quick tempo nature. I'm saying, like Mark Matt Ryan gets everyone done with work faster, Like that's your kind. Take that a little bit as like the last guy, Carson Wentz not only physically did he have issues. You're right, you got it nailed. I think they are absolutely thrilled. They've soured on Carson Wentz to the point where by the same day of the final game of the season. They were like, we are done with this, dude. The owner literally summoned everyone back to the team facility that night after a road game in Florida and said, hey, we're firing the quarterback and your next if this doesn't get better. So yeah, I think they were ready for the best start. Paris Campbell loved reminds reminds me of West West loved Paris Campbell that. And that's the thing is this is sort of this is Paris Campbell season. And I've I've heard of an interview with him where I read an interview with him, and you just hope for the best for a guy like that, because you know the mental struggles that a player goes through when he's injured and out the whole season. This has happened three straight years for him, where he's sort of usually he flashes in August and you just like crossing your fingers that it can. Don't put that juju on, dude, what do you mean? I'm trying to put the opposite, but you you've put it in the air. It's the context of of everything about him, and he knows it, and he's like he's talking about you gotta he was saying, how you really appreciate the days you're out there now because of everything he's been through. But yeah, it would be an amazing story and they could use him to be a big time threat. All right. I ended on a positive. I also like number one wide receivers. It just looks good. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm looking at his game aloud. Last year, I think he only has three hundred career yards because he just hasn't been able to play. I think he's played two or three games every year, one or two. He had a he had a one catch for fifty one yards and a touchdown in Week six last year and then disappeared. That must have got hurt that game. That was a bomb from Wentz Winstead some nice threats. I want to go one more time around. Sure, I like nutes. I'll just be quick about the on and maybe we can get around more. I like when players pop up you've literally never heard of before. And Lamar Jackson's been talking about Isaiah likely their rookie tight end, calling him little Mark. He said. He said that in an interview with our guy Claibon on NFL Network. Nice nice get for claiban there uh, and so that's a rookie tight end. They're gonna be playing a lot more two tight ends. That's calling him little Mark for Mark Andrews is high praise though that's like something that someone I'm watching in the preseason Isaiah likely never heard of him practically before. Zion Johnson Chargers Camp their first round guard who is a big part of that line. He's next to Storm Johnson, who has been problematic. Corey Lindsley basically said that he's lived up to the bill right right now, it's the first day in pads, but everything we thought he is, he is. He's been a really good player. The Writer's Daniel Popper of The Athletic has been raving about him too, that it's kind of the way that you felt when you watched for Shawn Slater's first reps that you just knew he was that guy. So if this checks out and it sounds good, that's big for Justin Herbert, big for that offense. Also to adoration um around Allen Robinson Rams Camp and the more I think about it, with Cooper Cup there, with maybe Odell Beckham, but but with Cooper Cup there coming off um the triple Crown Season Cup. Allen Robinson just signed a new deal healthy motivated the show. He's still a dude. Doesn't it feel possible that Allen Robin, this is more prediction than anything, is going to be a dog this year in that offense with that quarterback, he might he might be your value. Got well, we got our hand up what he got? Grave digger digger y. Yeah, you know that. It's a little tardy. Actually, we were out at RAMS training camp yesterday for Bench with Benetta podcast and Alan Robinson showed out. I mean he had three or four catches that had the crowd going crazy. I feel like a big season is in store for this. How about this? Why don't we to RAMS camp in a couple of days and see for ourselves that's around. I would love an underrated player throughout his career coming off a bad year. Can we get all Robinson on the show? I will request it. Let's talk to Allen Robinson about his incoming monster all proceedson. Did you steal guests away from us? I think it necessarily works like that, but well it's worked that way in the past. Possibly, I will say possibly. Also, if you're watching this on something to talk about why is Sean Kelly. Every time I look at him, he's closer and closer to you. He's wait shoulder to shoulders. It just so he can be on camera again. He loves the camera. Stapleton wearing around the NFL T shirt. Those in uh you know on our Outwait, you can't get them even though we could. At no point will this company ever say maybe we can leverage are in that incredibly loyal listeners for some merch no zero licensing rights for us ah anyway, eure up, No, I just did. Allen Robinson's gonna be a stud and we're gonna see him at RAMS camp one more quick one. Here we go. It's not you, I'm going now, You're right now? Is Mark DeAndre Swift? Every time I read about him, people were glowing. The report says he operates at a different speed from anyone else around him, and during camp this week he pulled away from the from the defense on a few big runs Saturday. Jamal Williams as well. They want to run the ball. They've got a great offensive line. I think it's a big year for DeAndre Swift. I like that we've we've segged into predictions. I like it. You got a prediction. No, I'm gonna give a rapid fire whisp so farcom it's about that second team life in Carolina. Something to keep an eye on him. He always just pencil in these top ten picks like any game tenders right away, and it makes sense. He's behind Brady Christensen. You you bring a guy along slow, relie, but he might be a little Where did you have him on the projected starter series? As a starter? You got a lot of time, but something to watch. Romeo, Romeo Dubs getting it done in packer land. If you're gonna be a rookie receiver with Aaron Rodgers, what a name Romeo Dubbs. Maybe he's ahead of Christian Watson early. And then I'm buying a little Dolphins offensive line hype. Austin Jackson is suddenly in super good condition, which has not always been the case. And then Connor Williams. They they're playing at center, which is surprising, and I just think that's sort of the one thing on their team that can really improve the most. And on paper, I think Mike McDaniel can get it done. Mm hmm. Good. That's more of a prediction, But there was some news in there. Connor Williams from the Cowboys at center was quite a surprise. Uh, this shows you how fast things go in the NFL. The twenty one overall pick of the draft is Jalen Reagor. Nick Sirianni, the Eagles coach, that he's battling for a roster spot, and kid, what, how's with some of these guys, the wide receivers that are taking high. If they don't pop, if they don't flash that, they don't have a role, and they don't play special teams, all of a sudden, it's like you trade for a J Brown absolutely did with the Cowboys to not do this offseason at wide receiver. Ian reported our our our guy raps. She reported that second round pick Tevin Jenkins, another guy everyone was just like slat him right in. He's there, gonna be their left tackle and prove them right away. Uh, second round pick from last year, Dan is on the trade block and I would guess they're gonna give him up for almost nothing. They're basically giving up on him after only one season with the team. And finally, I feel like this is a good way to close from our one of our friends at the athletic. Michael Sean Dugar. Oh yeah, that's MSD, great reporter, and now another edition of I'm sipping on vena che Listen man, Gino Smith, this is gonna happen. This is happening. Let's it. Jimmy g parachutes in and somehow is ready to roll. Gino Smith is gonna win the shop. It looks like he's running with the first team offense. And uh, Michael Seawan Dugard as I said, UM said that Drew Lock exclusively pretty much Locke has been a second team guy. And Pete Carroll had Pete Ko by the way, is COVID right now, as does Kyler Murray step why I and Um, Yeah, they're they're both out for both out right now. Had this to say, presumably before he went into COVID hiding, was gonna leave right now. And he's ahead, and so he's gonna be looking back and he's going for me, and Drew is not gonna take a back seat. So it's something's gonna happen, you know. And and and Jake could be there if we need him. So it's gonna be exciting to see. I mean. They also mentioned that they've both been very down. I've been tracking this daily and it sounds like the offense hasn't gotten a lot done no matter who's behind center. That Gino like cooks up the second team when he gets the chance, which that's good, but otherwise, can I hear that again? There's just some thing inherently humorous to me about the entire quote was gonna leave right now, and he's ahead, and so he's gonna he ain't look him back. He's going for me. Look him back. You don't have a quarterback. Good luck. Well that that's it for that episode, and that was another edition of che al right. Like we said, we have connor Or better late than never. He'll be joining us tomorrow. We hope Wednesday. Wednesday wasn't his fault. He was supposed to be on today, but guess what. The NFL exploded over the last two days with big news out of h He extended this connor Or doing some good reporting, uh learning and through a source that Tom Brady would not be punished. He was the first one day. Connor is a passionate writer, he's a great reporter, and he was busy and absolutely said can we push this and said absolutely, so We're pushing until tomorrow. Barring some other Mondo news story that Sports Illustrated needs him for, He's not allowed to cancel two days. It would be a little weird, but again it wouldn't be his fault necessarily. I think we get how the business works. But I would like to see him show up tomorrow. Team Slogan's Wednesday show, and yes, we are heading two rams camp on Friday, UM at one o'clock. And before that we will talk to Justin about his little off the cuff comment about something about going to camp with Rachel's podcast on Monday could adversely affect this show. He seemed to not so, I don't think so. I don't want to put words in his mouth. I'm still processing. Okay, let's talk about that. We'll have a lot to update this Tim Patrick news doesn't look good. I might have an update there. Well, it's one o'clock, so maybe we should close around. Cue the music. The Man's gotta go where no one knows, no one asks either. Still Wednesday, Heed the call. M