#55 Toby

Yeah, what do you mean? 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:10.560 Okay, my foot fell asleep? Are my foot fell asleep? 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:12.680 Yeah? 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.840 From a medical perspective, is it better to rub it 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:17.640 or just to write it out? 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:18.360 Keep it still? 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:21.680 I think I think maybe like cutting it. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.479 Off by wait. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:30.080 Note, hello, Jackie, I can't walk and I can hear 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:40.280 the ice cream truck. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:59.959 Heavyweight Today's episode Toby. Right after the break in two 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.520 twenty twelve, Toby's father died suddenly of a heart attack. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.200 Shortly after the funeral, Toby cleaned out his house. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.000 You know, you just find stuff, find relics of a life. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.720 Like, oh, hey, here's this, you know, pocket watch that's 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:15.880 labeled nineteen twelve. 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:16.840 Who's would this have been? 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.800 You know, Toby and his dad, Doug, weren't especially clothes, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.759 so going through his stuff felt oddly intimate. 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.760 It's funny. I didn't know my dad ever smoked weed, 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:27.560 but I found weed. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:28.600 Oh wow. 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.960 It's like, oh, okay, it was really old, I think. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.119 Toby says there were thousands of decisions to make. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.800 Want to donate, what to try and sell it in 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:38.880 the state sale, what. 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:44.600 To keep pocket watch, keep old weed? Discard? It was 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.720 while sorting through Doug's old suit jackets and books that 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:52.240 Toby found a box. A box containing twenty one audio 0:01:52.320 --> 0:02:00.480 cassette tapes. Toby read through the labels. They had titles 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.360 like phone Conversation, Terry nine thirty PM, Terry March third, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:11.080 nineteen eighty seven, Phone Conversation, and Terry's Call. Terry was 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:15.200 Toby's mom. She and his dad divorced when Toby was four, and, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.000 judging by the dates on the labels, the tapes were 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.680 recorded around the time of their split. Why did these 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.320 tapes even exist? Toby wasn't sure. He put the tapes 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:35.160 in the key pile. As Toby understands it, his parents 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.480 were never an obvious match. Doug was the button down 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.800 type and Terry had a wild hair. They got married young, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.400 and seven years into their marriage, Terry surprised Doug by 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.840 picking up all her stuff one day and moving out. 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.040 From there, Terry married a biker dude named Randy and 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.480 spiraled into years of wild living and hard drinking. Toby's 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.280 memory of those years is like a series of snapshot 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.919 Hugging his mom and knowing, even at twelve, to smell 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.760 her for alcohol. The time his friend told him he 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.080 couldn't sleep over at his house because quote, my mom 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.560 doesn't like your mom. And the night Terry took him 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.399 and his little sister, Heidi to a bar and kept 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:17.679 drinking and drinking. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:22.040 My mom was like unable to stand up essentially, and 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.800 me being seven or eight, knowing like, oh, you're not 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.839 supposed to drink and drive, and asking a random dude 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.760 at the bar like, hey, can you drive us home? 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.600 I remember being confused because I had asked the question, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.960 and then my mom still drove us home. My sister 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.600 was I think old enough to know something wasn't right. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:45.880 She was probably kindergarten. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.760 In the back seat, i'd he reached out for Toby's hand. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.640 And we held hands while she was driving home. 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.000 Eventually, Toby and Heidi went to live with their dad, Doug. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.320 Things were a lot more emotionally stable there, but Doug 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.960 wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy. Toby can't remember a single 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.160 time he ever told Toby he loved him. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.400 That just wasn't part of our That wasn't part of 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.640 our vernacular. You never heard I love you, not that 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:24.279 I remember. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.000 Although the divorce's aftermath had a profound impact on Toby, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.320 for the most part, he tries to avoid thinking about it. 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.480 He tells me, he tends to shut out heavy emotions. 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.200 In fact, this tendency came up just the other day 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.000 when Lauren, his wife of fifteen years, brought up the 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:43.880 box of tapes. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.960 But then I saw something very quickly change the subject, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.680 and she's like, this is what I'm talking about. Like you, 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.280 anytime it starts to get deep, you immediately find a bright, 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.159 shiny object to change the subject. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.680 He said, Hey, look at that silver carl there that's 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:01.719 been parked there. 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:02.240 For a while. 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:03.719 This is Lauren. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:10.479 She's pretty avoidant of getting to those like raw vulnerable parts. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.280 Twenty one cassette tapes from the exact period of your 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.479 life that you've spent so long avoiding might really bring 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:22.120 out those raw, vulnerable parts, which is why, almost ten 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.359 years after taking them home, the tapes remain unplayed, hidden 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:33.279 away in a credenza. Maybe there's nothing even on the tapes, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.800 maybe they've been recorded over or warped with time. But 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.240 maybe they form an unlikely door to Toby's past, to 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.840 his childhood and his parents' relationship. 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:47.160 There's so much that I don't know. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.120 Yeah, my dad's gone, my Mom's gone. I don't have 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.720 any way to find out what was actually happening in 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.480 my life. This is the last piece of them that 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.839 like it be new new information. But I don't know 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:02.760 that I'm ever actually going to listen to him if 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.200 I if I don't have an excuse forcing me to 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:06.640 listen to. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:11.240 Him, And so I Jonathan Goldstein have become that living, 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.960 breathing excuse. Toby has come to me with the tapes 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.240 in order to help him face his past and his 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:22.599 feelings head on. What's the ideal version of what comes next? 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.679 Like part of me is like send you guys the tapes, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.880 and you tell me what's on them and what's interesting 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.680 and what's not, you know, like almost outsourcing. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.279 Like like create a curated We've done a highlight reel. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.520 Yeah, here's how your life changed dramatically through no fault 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:42.040 of your own. 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:59.880 Here's the highlights, after the break, the highlights, clear the hold. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:00.479 Yeah. 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.560 I used to work at a radio show called This 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:04.800 American Life. 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.040 I know it's the show that inspired me to follow 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:09.080 this line of work. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.160 If you've never heard of This American Life, they're like 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.760 I think they describe themselves. If I'm not mistaken, as 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.960 being like little movies for the radio. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.160 Yeah, it's the best. It was my favorite show as 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.800 a kid all the way to it's still my favorite show. 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.080 And how many things can you think of that are 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.760 like that, that have been going for twenty five years 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.960 and have just maintained the level of quality that this 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.880 American life has truly, Like I mean even things that 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.600 you end up loving, like like I love Star Wars. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:42.520 I watched three episodes. That was plenty for this American life. 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.360 It just in some ways it gets better, it expands 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.920 its universe and the things that it tries. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.240 Where you talk about it like every week. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:55.320 Yeah, it's meaningful to us. And I would say, if 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.280 you love Heavyweight, you're gonna love this American life. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:00.440 Say that. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:01.480 I would say that. 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:02.760 Should we say it in Unison? 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.440 Sure, if you like heavy heavyweight, Okay, you're not saying 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:08.679 it in Unison, you're. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.960 Gonna I don't know that's saying things in Unison really 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.920 excel something. It's not like no, no, no, really they said 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.920 it in Unison. It really imparted to me just how 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.720 true this was. Yeah, but it is true that this 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.200 American life continues to experiment every week with what Radio 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:30.400 storytelling can be and it drops every Sunday night, So 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.240 listen wherever you get your podcasts. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.520 I mentioned to my six year old. 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.880 I was like, yeah, I'm talking to Jonathan Goldstein and 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.240 he said, who is that? Is that an old man 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.480 you're talking to about another old man? 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:49.000 That he's basically nailed heavyweight in a sentence. I've started 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.760 to go through the cassettes, which amount to about twenty 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.040 three hours of audio. And while there are work calls, 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.880 calls to the video store, a fair bit of Fleetwood 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.160 Mac taped off the radio, a large portion of the 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.400 tapes is exactly what the labels promised. Phone calls between 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.920 Toby's parents. It seems that during the divorce proceedings, Doug 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.640 had been meticulously recording his phone calls, possibly as a 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:18.240 precaution in case of a custody battle. Toby has a 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.840 busy schedule. He works a full time job and is 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.600 raising two kids, so we set aside an hour a 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.160 week to go through the tapes a little at a time. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.920 Our check ins usually occurred during breaks in Toby's workday. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.319 Oh hey, hello, Toby, Hello, can you hear me? 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:33.840 Hello? 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:34.559 Hello? 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.920 The labels on the tape spent a couple of years, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.080 and we decided to go through in chronological order. The 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.960 earliest tapes are from after Doug and Terry have separated, 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.000 but before the official divorce. I press play, and for 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.679 the first time in over a decade, Toby hears his parents' voices. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.599 Did you pay Joanna? Couldn't get a hold of her. Ah, 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.200 you didn't pay her? Why not? 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.800 In this recording, Terry wants to know why Doug has 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:01.800 an paid their babysitter, Joanne. 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.160 Well, I'm going to end up having to pay. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:04.480 You all the. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:08.640 Sport. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:14.520 I'm not asked for any I'm not vindictive, not greedy 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:15.920 just to pay Joanne. 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.679 I'm not going to ask for Okay, Well, I'll stop 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.520 by the HM. 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:27.240 My dad's voice I recognize, but my mom's voice. If 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.520 you had just played it and said who is this? 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.280 I would have I didn't recognize our voice, which is well, 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:34.920 pretty incredible to me. 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.000 And what Tobey also finds pretty incredible is hearing his 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.760 parents speak to one another and with so much civility. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.360 The only version of them that he remembers is two 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.080 people with so much bad blood between them they could 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:52.000 hardly be in the same room together. Birthday parties were separate, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.480 and at his graduation they avoided eye contact and didn't 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.960 speak a word. But none of that acrimony is evident 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:00.199 in these early tapes. 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.640 So you want that stipulated in the papers that you 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:03.760 would have them for a couple of. 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:04.719 Months this summertime. 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.720 In another recording from that time, Doug and Terry tried 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.160 to figure out how to split time with Toby and Heidi. 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.640 What are you talking about game July, July, August, June 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.920 and July. Well, Hi, birthdays in July. We don't get 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.160 to give her a birthday party together. We love our kids. 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:22.440 We don't hate each other. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.079 Not only do they not hate each other, they're getting 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.800 along exceptionally well. They're able to hash out their divorce 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.440 agreement just the two of them, without lawyers. They figure 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.360 it all out at a Perkins restaurant one night. As 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.800 Toby listens to his parents being so cordial, he feels 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.680 a kind of dread because he knows cordial is not 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.800 how things will end. It's like listening to the beginning, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:57.440 he says, of a horror story. What do you don 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:59.599 so how did things deteriorate? 0:11:59.679 --> 0:11:59.760 So? 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.480 How did they get so bad with that question in 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.160 mind before you head with the tapes. Yeah, so okay, 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.400 I'll play you. Uh well, Toby always knew his dad 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.080 to be a pretty detached person. On the night the 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:18.040 divorce becomes official, Doug seems genuinely lonely. The tapes capture 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.800 him phoning a friend and getting a continuous busy signal. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.800 He calls back four more times until he can finally 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:24.240 get through. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.320 Oh what do you guys do? 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:28.160 Sit her top on the phone all night? 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.079 No, leave it up to until people like you won't. 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.319 Call hear what's going on? 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:35.000 Dark? It's final? 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:36.280 What final? 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:37.040 The divorce? 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:38.360 Oh, it's already? 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:40.640 How can it be done so quick? 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:41.559 Oh? 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.199 I'm going to do now to live with it? Did 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.000 you know I'm still going to take a lot of 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:48.000 time to get over it? 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:48.440 Sure? 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.640 Sure? One one thing I. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.600 Learned people are not supposed to get divorced. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:55.000 What do you mean? 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.840 I was always taught that if something's broken, you should fix. 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.040 It, because you know, I remember my parents and have 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:03.199 fight so bad. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.720 But you know, the found a divorce just never came up. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.440 Yeah, of course you'll never know the whole story, just 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:15.840 like Toby and Heidi will never know the whole story. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.360 It seems like he kind of intuitively knew that we 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:25.880 would always have questions, and that thread continues today. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.000 As we continue on beyond the divorce, Toby's wife, Lauren 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.480 joins him to listen to some of the tapes, like 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.839 this one, Hi Dad, This is a five year old 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.200 Toby on the phone with Doug. Adult Toby, hearing his 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.000 own voice, exchanges a smile with Lauren. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:50.760 Hey, hey, you got new cereal? Yeah? Yeah, what are 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.839 you trying to do? You trying to rot all your 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:53.360 teeth out? 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:53.920 Bye? 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:59.280 Bye? I love you one night, Okay, I. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:05.280 Love I don't remember that kind of relationship with him, 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:10.640 Like what kind of relationship silly and playful and saying 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.520 I love you when you hang up the phone, Like, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.040 I don't really remember that at all. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:25.520 The I love yous had existed, Toby had just forgotten them. 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.280 The parents on the tapes are different from the parents 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.200 Toby remembers in other ways too. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.720 How to bring along her care bear blanket too. 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.280 Not only are they working as a team, but Terry 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.640 sounds clear headed and on top of things. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.960 Yeah, she wrote it on some bog and it's like 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.560 a bedspread type. Yeah, it's the one. 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:46.760 Well, it goes on a little bed. 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:48.760 Tobby knows who Robert is. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.200 That's who he's bowling the doubles with, and make sure 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:52.640 he gets a ten ball. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.600 Whenever Terry calls to talk to the kids at Dougs, 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:03.200 young Toby runs to the phone. 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:07.880 Toby, I suppose so okay, I'll don't get through the son. 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.920 I guess him right here here. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:14.080 Oh that was good. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.480 One another again, yad thirsty? 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:25.720 Are you really gurgling? 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:27.680 I really got ruper. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.320 And whenever they say goodbye, Terry, just like Doug tells 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.840 Toby how much she loves him, I'll talk to you later. 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.200 Love you bye bye, love you bye bye. I love you, 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:39.000 love you do. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:43.640 It's a little bit. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.080 It's a little bit sad knowing what happened in her 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.680 life over the next ten or fifteen years. Like my 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.080 memories and my mom don't have any of that lightheartedness 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.040 or happiness to him. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:58.640 I remember a lot more. 0:15:58.480 --> 0:15:58.800 Of the. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:01.520 Of the bad stuff. 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.480 The bad stuff continued into Toby's young adulthood. Not long 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.840 before she died, Toby saw his mother at a family Thanksgiving. 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.200 Toby was in college and it just dyed his hair black. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.280 Terry was so out of it that she didn't recognize him, 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:16.840 and she. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.480 Looked at me and said hi, and then like turned 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.760 away and was like, where's Toby at? And it's like, well, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.000 I'm right here. My hair is a different color, but 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.520 I'm still here. And that's a core memory. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:31.000 I think. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.080 I think that was the last time I saw her. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.360 You know that story, Lauren. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.680 I didn't remember that story. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:43.960 It's not a fun Friday night conversation. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.800 I've noticed today as we've been talking about stuff, like 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.840 you'll get choked up and then you know you've got 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.920 to sort of diffuse it, like you smile afterwards. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:00.880 I'm thinking of like, it's a funny joke I can 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:01.680 put in here now. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.679 Knowing how Toby tends to brush over difficult feelings, the 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.840 next clip I play him feels like one of those 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:15.680 origin stories you'd see in a superhero film. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:17.080 Toby Stop. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.520 Doug is on hold with joe Anne, the babysitter. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:31.440 Okay, we'll get your jammies on that. Allen, shove up. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.879 Act a little happier. Acts a little happier. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:41.800 Okay, hello, Joanne, Act a little happier. The marching orders 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.040 Toby would continue to obey all the way into his adulthood. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.520 But when Toby listens to the tape, I think it's funny. 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.399 All he can do is laugh it off. Shall we continue? 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:54.920 Yeah? 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:56.280 Hellow, we're here. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.320 This is Toby's sister Heidi, asking Doug if can have 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.000 dinner with her at her mother's house. 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:08.320 No, I don't think. I don't think too. Why I 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:09.720 don't go over her anymore? 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.679 Hyle you over you? 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.280 Well? I don't eat Tipper over there? 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:17.119 Why? 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.000 Because of your mom and I are divorced? 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:21.560 Why they're true? 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:23.280 Oil? 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:28.720 I don't know. I will understand it better when we're older. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.120 In spite of Toby's being older, in spite of cassette 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.800 tapes unspooling lives, there are many questions Toby will never 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:43.240 have the answers to. But then one day, while going 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.359 through the tapes, I come across one answer to a 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.399 big question. How things between Doug and Terry got so bad? 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.679 It happened after the divorce on one particular evening in 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:58.399 April of nineteen eighty eight. Suddenly I can see the 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.520 whole arc of the relationships fall. The recordings are heavy 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.159 and scheduling these tape listening sessions over zoom. During Toby's 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:10.000 lunch breaks no longer feels appropriate, and so I have 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.360 a new idea. I decide I'll travel to Portland, where 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.320 Toby lives, so we can sit down together and over 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.679 the course of a dedicated weekend play these last tapes 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:20.360 in person. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.320 Oh gosh, oh okay. 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:49.399 After the break Portland, Hello, Hello, Toby, Lauren and I 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:54.200 meet in a hotel suite in downtown Portland. Ah, Lauren 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.159 and Toby sit next to each other on the couch. 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:02.200 We all don our headphones to listen so we can starts. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.119 If that's good with you, guys. Yeah, and so we 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:11.159 dive into that pivotal evening from nineteen eighty eight in April. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.680 For the first time we hear Doug narrating directly into 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.480 the recorder. It's because this is the moment when he 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.119 knows he's not merely documenting as a precaution, but potentially 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:23.680 preparing evidence. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.720 In her house alone. That's when I called the police. 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.840 It seems that Terry left Toby and Heidi at home 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.320 all by themselves one night, and Doug called the police. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.520 Toby remembers that night. 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.080 We were at mom's house. 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.280 Yeah, and she went I don't know how long she 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.080 was gone, but I was like five, I got scared 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.600 and I called my dad and I didn't know. 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.000 He was going to call the police or whatever. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:57.600 So my mom came home at some point and then 0:20:58.200 --> 0:20:59.280 like the police came by. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.400 Toby doesn't recall his dad talking to him about what happened, 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:04.840 but it seems he did. 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:10.120 Are you upset about last night? And see? I called 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.760 the police because I don't think you guys should be 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:18.760 left there alone. And I didn't know what else to 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.200 do because I can't go in your mom's house, okay. 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:22.600 But the. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.520 House they said we might get taken away to go 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:30.280 to your house. 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:32.800 I don't think you will because I don't think your 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.200 mom will leave you alone anymore. And that's good because 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.160 you know, when you're older, I think you guys need 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.000 to be left alone. But not when you guys threw 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:42.440 this yim. 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:43.840 You know you. 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.720 I know, I know, but you were scared, and I 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:50.600 was scared for you. 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.639 Terry, on the other hand, didn't think there was anything 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.880 to be scared of. When she calls Doug sometime later 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.120 to talk to the kids, how do he brings up 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.000 that night and Terry explains it this way, Well. 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:09.280 Come when hang left, no pay because I had to 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:10.919 go check out my work and I was gone for 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:16.879 fifteen minutes. Haven't you ever been left alone before you 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.000 were asleep? You didn't even know it. And if Toby 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.199 had been asleep, do you know what? I would not 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.720 have left at all. But I thought Toby was old 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:25.719 enough that he could sit here for fifteen minutes by 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.359 himself and watch the movie he was watching without freaking out. 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:31.120 But obviously not. 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:40.879 Pretty shitty to put that on me, a six year 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:41.719 old who got scared. 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.040 So now that just caused the big that caused a big, big, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.879 big big problem. You still through the whole thing, Heidi, 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.560 Toby knows all about it, and from now on your 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:55.120 debit or never believe you guys learned either? 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:56.040 Never ever? 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.120 If he does, you call me how come you did? 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:04.440 Because honey, you were absolete for the night. But that's 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.480 the half kind of fine. The house, I wasn't gonna 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.480 catch them far. We got that. How many? We've got 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.640 two smoke alarms downstairs here, don't we? And we scored 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:15.760 about the house. One catch the fire with fast climate matches? 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:16.959 Are you guys gonna play with matches? 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:18.440 But that's the right. 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:21.760 We got all new wiring in the. 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:33.160 House Because of what happened that night, Family Services paid 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.880 a visit to Terry's house, but nothing came of it. 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:40.680 Legally that was that. Still, Terry felt betrayed by Doug. 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.760 Here they are later that week relitigating. 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:48.000 Are you flying for full cut? Are you gonna doll 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:48.280 at that? 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:49.680 What? 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:51.879 I want you to straighten your act up? 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:58.520 My app big war straight Why. 0:23:58.560 --> 0:23:59.520 You made that yet? 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:01.440 Four year old? 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:02.800 A six year old alone? 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:07.960 I left four I was begun for some of them. 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:09.360 Hoar. 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:16.720 She didn't sound sober. 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.440 I think my sister and I were there with her 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.720 at that point, like she was taking care of us. 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:27.320 What was probably doing up at eleven o'clock on the 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:28.000 school right? 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:30.320 What was because one of the. 0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:34.520 Welcome the other day you said you were going to 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:39.000 kill yourself. If I had gut see kids, I would never. 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.720 Tell my own, you know how religious boot star. 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:48.920 What begins is anguish hardens into anger. A few weeks later, 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:51.560 Terry phones Dog and accuses him of being out at 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:53.359 a bar called Windy O'Leary's. 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:57.480 Yeah, that's Heary. We are you hanging out Winny o'larry's. 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:00.840 Should I call the cops on you? You're told the 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:02.600 wanting to talk to you. I think that's a little 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:05.120 bit of neglect. I didn't really call it a bitch 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:07.000 or anything, but what I do want to say is this, 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:10.439 I don't like standing on my front porch spying. I 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:12.080 told you to park in front of the house, and 0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:14.400 that's exactly what I meant. And if you can't get 0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:16.560 in an answer with the honk, then you just better 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.600 start hollering in the door to behind it, because far 0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:21.359 as I did it, it was fying to listen to 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:23.800 what was going on in the house. So yeah, I'm 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:25.840 a little upset, and I've been upset and I've been 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:27.960 holding it in. And that's just the kind of mood 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:29.440 I'm in, and that's just the kind of. 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:31.960 Mood that I have been holding within. 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:34.920 So why did I just give a call? 0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:36.520 We know a Larius and see if you'll answer? 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:38.359 Goodbye? 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:49.000 So this next clip is the last tape between them. 0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:53.520 It's a long one. Let's let's listen if you if 0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:58.440 you're ready, I think so. 0:25:57.000 --> 0:25:58.919 That's very important I got hold of. You know, is 0:25:58.920 --> 0:25:59.720 there a problem? 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:01.680 Can they talk to you about the month of June? 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:05.639 The month of June? This is where the argument begins. 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:09.119 Doug has custody in June, but Terry has registered Toby 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:12.479 for summer softball. Doug says the problem there is that 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:13.960 he and the kids will be out of town for 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:17.400 two weeks in June. So Terry says, well, great, if 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.080 Toby's going to miss that much softball, he'll probably end 0:26:20.160 --> 0:26:22.840 up with some horrible position like right field, and his 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:24.560 self esteem will be shot to hell. 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:27.640 You know that the kids come here in June and 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:28.920 you just scheduled it. 0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:33.080 The damn league scheduled at that. Well, you didn't contact me, Okay, 0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:37.000 certicipate in any summer sports? Is that what you're saying? 0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:40.600 What's that Toby can never participate in any summer sports 0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:41.920 his whole life till he's eighteen. 0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:44.480 No, I didn't say anything like that. I said I 0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:46.080 would like to know. I find that. 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:49.159 Let's let the child be just an invalid hum be 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:50.280 a vegetaball all summer. 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:51.160 What. 0:26:52.240 --> 0:26:55.040 Terry wants to change the custody agreements so she can 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:58.360 take Toby to the softball games, but Doug says he's 0:26:58.400 --> 0:27:01.920 already booked the childcare he'll need for the whole month here. 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:04.880 Yeah, Terry, now I am, I'm not following. Don't wait 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:06.080 a second, let me talk. 0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:07.000 Okay. 0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:12.880 Joanne and Caprice have scheduled their time around when they 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:17.840 can watch my kids, Caprice our kids. Okay, I'm sorry. 0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:21.359 So Terry turns it back on Doug. Okay, she says, 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:23.840 if I can't see the kids in June, then you 0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:24.919 won't see them in July. 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:26.840 Yes, I will see them. 0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:29.520 How maybe my men is still left. 0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:32.240 I can see them on weekends my normal visitation. 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:36.040 Okay, I'll have to look at up because I do 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:37.920 tend to look every little thing up. 0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:40.560 Are you going to look up about the school that 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:41.399 you pull them out of? 0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:42.639 School? 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:43.400 Is getting paid off? 0:27:43.560 --> 0:27:46.240 In those early calls, Doug and Terry tended to resolve 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:49.560 their disagreements in just a few minutes, But now they 0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:52.760 go on fighting for over half an hour straight. Terry 0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:55.760 begins to leave from one unrelated grievance to the next. 0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:59.040 The other day, God damn it, Jonathan walked Toby home 0:27:59.040 --> 0:27:59.960 from kindergarten. 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:01.840 Yeah, capriest went too. 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:05.719 Caprice did not take them home. Toby told me this, 0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.800 that's not true. Oh Toby lied. You know, Toby, he 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:13.320 is not a liar. When I walked to her, also 0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:16.520 to talk to the kids Friday afternoon, Caprice, after you 0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:18.240 can get up the phone, Get up the own kids, 0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:19.960 get up the phone, get off the phone, because I 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:22.200 always make a point of calling them on Friday and Saturday, 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:23.760 which I don't see you making a. 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:25.160 Point of calling the kids during the week. 0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:28.000 But when I call, I don't appreciate the babies. They 0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:29.600 were telling the kids to get off the phone. Now 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:32.639 I don't appreciate. Also, you standing on my front porch 0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:34.639 hearing what's going on inside of my house. To me, 0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:37.600 that is fine and low down and dirty. You were 0:28:37.640 --> 0:28:41.680 standing with one foot on the porch and one. 0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:44.560 And then finally Terry raises the thing that really underlies 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:48.040 her rage, the night of the police, when two weeks. 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:49.840 Ago, in the cops with here, you couldn't even come 0:28:49.880 --> 0:28:51.920 up to check on your own son's welfare when you 0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:56.560 were supposedly so dimnn concerned. So what's the difference. I mean, 0:28:56.600 --> 0:28:58.320 either you're gonna do it or you're not gonna do it. 0:28:58.360 --> 0:28:59.280 That's kind of double. 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:01.280 Standards, because I don't think it would have been a 0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:03.600 good idea to make a big scene. 0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:07.400 Oh, make a big scene when you're taken upstairs and 0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:11.200 talk to the cops. You know, four policemen. You don't 0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:15.960 consider that a big scene. Four cops, right, that's Orange said, 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:17.640 four cops is a big scene. 0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:21.280 What I consider big was leaving the kids alone. 0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:24.480 But you don't know our lifestyle. You don't know our situation, 0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:25.280 and no. 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:28.160 Second lifestyle has nothing to do with it. You don't 0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:30.560 leave a four year old and a six year old 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:32.320 in a house alone in the middle of the night, 0:29:32.440 --> 0:29:33.640 let alone in the middle. 0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:35.440 Of the day, Copsas has it ever happened before? 0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:35.680 No? 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:40.080 And another thing that has or still is that you did, Doug. 0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:43.719 Was you sitting around, actually sitting around? Actually nobody can 0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:48.120 believe this in your suit, kai your jacket, your dress pants, 0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:50.240 your dress shoes and all that at eleven o'clock at night. 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:53.160 Yeah, it was a matter of fact, as you were. 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:54.120 As a matter of fact. 0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:55.640 No, I didn't. I didn't have a tie on. 0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:58.160 No you had a tie on when you was out 0:29:58.200 --> 0:29:59.080 here in front of my house. 0:29:59.160 --> 0:29:59.840 No I didn't. 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.360 I had How can we see it? She was so 0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:04.360 far away when they came up here and check on Toby. 0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:04.880 Yeah? 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:08.120 Sure, I mean, do you talk so serious that the 0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:10.960 kids you guys ever laugh? I know you do a 0:30:10.960 --> 0:30:12.360 lot of things that the kids. I know you guys 0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:13.960 go to zoo, and I know you guys go boating, 0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:16.120 and I know the kids enjoy it. But I also 0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:18.360 know they're getting to spoiled little burger bets over a 0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:21.360 lot of things too. They're getting expected a little bit 0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:24.000 too my child life, I think. But is there any 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.040 humor and laughter in their life? Or is it all 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:32.720 materialism and soberness. I don't know what's going on? But 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:35.200 why is it? The other day Toby didn't for the 0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:39.040 first time, Toby didn't want to go to your house? 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.160 And why did Toby draw a picture of the devil 0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:44.520 and say it was you? How do you have to bead? 0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:44.840 Dream? 0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:46.360 Last night? And it was at your house? 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:47.400 That's the dream was? 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:50.360 What is going on? I am really concerned. 0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:53.000 Yeah, I don't know. The kids hold a lot of anger. 0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:56.800 They don't hold a lot of anger here. Everything's funky 0:30:56.840 --> 0:30:59.720 dory here. As matter of fact, laugh to night. The 0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:03.160 kids have woke up with bad dreams, and both nights 0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:06.160 have been dreams. Had something to do with the house. 0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:08.400 Well, they don't wake up with bad dreams over here. 0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:12.320 They sleep as well from over there. They're not dreams here. 0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:15.880 You know, I'm thinking, is there a perversion going on 0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:16.200 or what? 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:20.040 Well, I think that's pretty strong allegation. 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:22.640 I don't hear the allegation, but I wonder. 0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:25.120 Well, exactly what are you trying to say? 0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:27.160 I had it happen to me? Is there a friend 0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:31.200 of yours that you are maybe think that's a good 0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:33.160 friend of yours? You maybe not be a friend good 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:33.960 friend as you think? 0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:35.840 Well, I think you're wrong. 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:41.360 No, that's that's not impossible. That it's not impossible. 0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:47.200 How can you comprehend leaving a four and a six 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:49.160 year old at home alone. 0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:52.080 For fifteen minutes? And you know what? The DCFS worker 0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:54.640 died laughing. She said, tell me, do you know why 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:57.360 I'm here? He says yes, because I have no sense 0:31:57.400 --> 0:31:59.200 of time till tell me. I'll be right back. 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:00.000 I ran three blocks. 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:01.080 I was right back. 0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:05.360 Well, you don't leave a four year old care because, 0:32:05.360 --> 0:32:08.440 by God, the first time, there won't be no cops involved. 0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:12.960 It'll be me and my family involved. Because nobody in 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:16.200 my family can believe they said right or wrong. They 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.360 can't believe that you called in the outside. 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:22.120 Your family thinks it's okay to leave kids alone. 0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:25.080 No, but they think you should have come over yourself. 0:32:25.680 --> 0:32:28.760 But no, you can't even come up on the front porch, Terry. 0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:31.120 The police, the police. 0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:33.280 Did not want me to come up on the front porch. 0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:35.440 The police didn't want you to come talk to your 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:40.400 own son. Did they say that, Terry? No? Did they 0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:41.720 say that they. 0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:44.200 Got the information they needed? They told me they thought 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:45.840 it would be best if I left. 0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:47.800 Did you say, well, I would like to talk to 0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:53.560 my son. Did you take the police advice, Terry. 0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:56.120 I'm not gonna argue no, No. 0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:57.880 I want to know how much you care about tell 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:01.920 me you took the police advice over your own son's welfare. 0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:05.120 I personally, I don't know. Maybe it's the maternal instinct. 0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:06.920 I would have said, well, can I at least see 0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:08.120 my son or talk to him? 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:09.240 Okay? 0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:17.840 But the police advice when the police got thousands and 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:21.720 thousands of thousands of calls to make and only one son. 0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:25.320 My own concern for Toby is why why the police 0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:29.000 were at your house. You don't leave a four year 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:30.880 old at six year old place. 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:35.600 Why didn't you just track your suit, tie, shoes, and 0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:39.360 your jacket over here in the first place. I did, 0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:42.080 you would have been here before they would have been here, 0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:45.440 I was you was here before they was here. Yeah, 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:48.400 that just goes to show me that your concern is 0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:51.960 not what your son is, but how it looks reflex 0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:55.160 on you. First time I ever ever left the kids, 0:33:55.520 --> 0:33:58.200 they told that lady that they told the policeman that 0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:01.960 they told you that. I can't even begin to tell 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:03.120 you my anger about this. 0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:06.040 Well, that's good because I'm not gonna allow you to 0:34:06.120 --> 0:34:06.480 do that. 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:09.960 You're not gonna allow me kiss my ass. I don't 0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:11.360 ever gonna happen again. 0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.640 I don't regret calling the police when you call the. 0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:18.040 Police, Okay, fine, anything ever happens, I call the police 0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:21.120 on you. Then neither one of us have children. How 0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:23.480 do you like them? Apples? You want to calling up 0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:24.480 on organizations? 0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:34.400 That's tip cut off, Tip cuts off. It's not at 0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:37.439 the end of the cassette. The tape abruptly cuts off 0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:41.040 in a way that suggests Doug had pressed stop. For 0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:44.560 all of his rigor and scrupulousness and recording, It's like 0:34:44.600 --> 0:34:49.239 this moment was just too painful to document. In the end, 0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:51.960 Doug never needed the tape for evidence, as there was 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:55.480 no court case. Terry agreed to allow him full custody 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:59.080 without contest when Toby was in the third grade, he 0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:02.760 and Heidi went to with their dad for good Toby 0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:06.320 sits in silence, taking in what he just heard. Lauren 0:35:06.360 --> 0:35:07.160 studies his face. 0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.680 The thing I just get pulled back to again and 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:17.160 again is like, that's my person in the middle of it. 0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:18.080 It's really hard. 0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:26.279 I wish there were like better words. I'm sorry. 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:34.960 Toby's always been grateful to his dad for taking him 0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:39.040 out of a bad situation, but hearing this conversation, he says, 0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:41.440 he suddenly understands the extent of what his dad was 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:44.040 dealing with and why it might have been so important 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:46.840 that Doug remained the stolid one in the face of 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:50.560 so much intensity. Perhaps someone had to be My. 0:35:50.560 --> 0:35:54.320 Mom was being awful, just being pretty awful. 0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:56.960 Jerry and good. 0:35:57.320 --> 0:36:00.239 They were happy, They were happy until she was. 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:05.000 This is Toby's aunt, Tracy, Terry's sister. I reached out 0:36:05.040 --> 0:36:06.920 to her to try to get more context for some 0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:10.920 of the things Terry says in the tapes. Specifically, Tracy 0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:13.320 was able to explain the abuse that Terry referenced. 0:36:13.760 --> 0:36:15.919 My parents' best friends that mom and dad ran around 0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:19.240 with all the time. It was that man, the husband 0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:25.400 and Terry never told because she absolutely loved the lady 0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:27.879 and loved going over there and hanging out with her. 0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:29.560 She just just loved her. 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.240 It wasn't until well into Terry's adulthood that the truth 0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:36.160 came out. She called her parents one night and told 0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:37.839 them what their friend had done to her all those 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:41.600 years ago. Her parents didn't know what to do, so 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:45.680 they did nothing. Terry's boyfriend at the time convinced her 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:49.200 to phone the man's wife. They called together and. 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:53.960 They told her these people are still married. And I 0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:58.600 guess in a day or two found out that she 0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:00.080 had confronted. 0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:00.120 The name, and. 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.640 Just a few days later the husband died by suicide. 0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:13.000 Told her it was true suicide. Oh my yeah. 0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:24.479 I think that was one of Terry's demons. I think 0:37:24.600 --> 0:37:27.279 that his mom lived with a lot of regrets. 0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.319 I think she died with a lot of regrets. 0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:33.160 I mean, it's sad I look back and how sad 0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:35.120 it is that the kids didn't have her growing up. 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:39.560 Anybody that's in addiction don't want to be an addiction. 0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:44.440 That addiction was always dumber than her. I'd believe with 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.600 my whole heart if she could come back today and 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:51.000 go okay, let's do this over. It would have been 0:37:51.120 --> 0:38:00.000 an amazing mom. 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:02.880 The argument about the police was the last tape between 0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:06.440 Toby's parents, but there are two other tapes. Tapes that 0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:11.120 were not recorded surreptitiously. You were recorded explicitly for Toby 0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:12.160 is a. 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:17.200 Bore start on Friday next to eighty one. 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:20.120 This is a tape that Terry made recounting the story 0:38:20.120 --> 0:38:22.360 of Toby's birth directly to him. 0:38:22.640 --> 0:38:24.960 DEVI and I've got a whole viewing Xcus. 0:38:25.440 --> 0:38:27.520 That was your dad recurring. 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:31.239 I was just so happy because this tape was found 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:34.719 among Doug's things. Because Terry sounds so young and optimistic, 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:37.840 you can tell that this was recorded years before the divorce, 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:41.759 back when things were different. Terry explains how she and 0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:46.600 Doug got into a spat and it's what I argument, 0:38:47.160 --> 0:38:49.720 but then swore to never argue in front of Toby 0:38:49.760 --> 0:38:50.640 again and. 0:38:52.480 --> 0:38:55.840 Incent police but we don't like it, and soth. 0:38:55.680 --> 0:39:05.239 Main we made it. All these years later, it's hard 0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:07.560 for Toby to picture his parents as people who were 0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:10.200 once in love, who could argue and then make up, 0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:13.839 who cared about him in tandem. In two thousand and three, 0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:18.040 Terry died from complications due to addiction. The lasting image 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:20.759 Toby has of his two parents finally sharing the same 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:24.520 room took place at her funeral. Toby was surprised to 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:26.600 see his dad seated at the back of the church. 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:30.000 Doug left as soon as the service was over, and 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:32.439 Toby could never figure out why his father had shown 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:35.040 up at all. Maybe it was for the Terry he 0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:39.120 used to love. Maybe it was for their kids. Me 0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:42.480 and you naw kid, No, mister an, let's get this sleeper. 0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:43.640 You come. 0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:46.960 The final tape I play for Toby is one of 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:49.960 Toby himself as a baby with his parents. 0:39:50.440 --> 0:39:54.320 You get the tickets, yo, you get the hiccups. 0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:58.439 This is pretty tricky getting his clothes on you would 0:39:58.520 --> 0:39:59.560 use for him and all our. 0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:06.279 Arm In another part of the tape, Terry sings to 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:07.400 a baby Toby. 0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:11.880 See Toby, Gene, I'm so lovely, Jean. 0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:16.280 And I need to be Gene. 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:20.680 We never pad so Hello, Toby. 0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:21.239 Gen. 0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:22.960 Give. 0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:30.960 I didn't want to put a kid through what I 0:40:31.000 --> 0:40:31.839 went through as a kid. 0:40:32.640 --> 0:40:35.200 Even back when he was just a kid himself, Toby 0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:38.759 remembers thinking, when I'm an adult, it won't be like this. 0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:41.359 When I have my own kids, I'm going to do 0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:44.640 things so much differently, and now he does have kids, 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:46.799 a six year old and a nine year old. 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:51.759 Something that has always been important to me is like stability. 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:55.800 That's something I've intentionally built into my life. Yeah, because 0:40:55.840 --> 0:40:57.560 I knew what it was like to be a kid 0:40:57.600 --> 0:41:02.520 and not have that. And I think we've built a 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:08.640 really good life for us and our family and our kids. 0:41:12.440 --> 0:41:14.920 Tobya told me a story from when he was a 0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:21.480 kid closed to do BMX racing, and you should tell 0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:21.839 the story. 0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:24.600 How to answer your story calling. 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:28.799 Yeah, so I wanted to do BMX racing really bad. 0:41:29.239 --> 0:41:31.239 I'd seen it on TV. I was like, that's the 0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:34.839 coolest thing ever. I want to do this. And so my. 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:38.920 Dad called the one bike shop in our town and 0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:41.360 was like, is there any BMX around or whatever? And 0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:45.200 they're like nope. And then I never got to do BMX. 0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:52.040 But our six year old really is into it, and 0:41:52.120 --> 0:42:01.239 so like, I've got him. 0:42:01.680 --> 0:42:03.160 I'll be an ex bike can work. 0:42:08.280 --> 0:42:11.880 Sorry, We're like, I'm going to a skate park all 0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:16.759 the time, and he's in mountain bike classes and yeah, 0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:23.880 doing that stuff for him that like, it's clear to 0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:25.200 me that my dad. 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:29.920 Went the extra mile in the ways that he could. 0:42:31.640 --> 0:42:33.120 I want to do that for my kids. 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:41.520 So he doesn't get emotional very often. This is the 0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:45.719 most I've ever seen him emotional. And we've been through 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:49.120 some life together. You're sleep good tonight, buddy. 0:42:49.560 --> 0:42:54.120 Like you know, this is this type of emotional work 0:42:54.600 --> 0:42:55.520 that's exhausting. 0:42:55.800 --> 0:43:00.800 Yeah, maybe, said Doug. Well, I know stand it better 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:04.000 when we're older, which is something that people just say. 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:08.239 But in this case, Doug inadvertently left something behind to 0:43:08.280 --> 0:43:12.839 make that understanding possible and yet to become the dad 0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:15.439 that he is, to give the things that he didn't get. 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:17.960 Toby didn't need the tapes at all. 0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:29.000 Just really proud of you, Toby, Thank. 0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:40.000 You because I know that you feel that way. 0:43:54.400 --> 0:44:04.440 Now that the furniture's riturned to its goodwill, now that the. 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:07.719 Last months rant is scheming with. 0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:12.520 The damage to pozzle, take this moment to deserve. 0:44:14.560 --> 0:44:16.560 If we if we too. 0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:20.760 Felt around for far. 0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:25.320 From things accidentally. 0:44:30.560 --> 0:44:33.560 This episode of Heavyweight was produced by senior producer Khalila 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:37.120 Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our 0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:41.280 supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistants by Mohemy Micgauker. 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:45.280 Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Alex Bloomberg, 0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:49.319 Max Green, Blythe Terrell, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed 0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:52.600 the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson, 0:44:52.680 --> 0:44:56.360 and he himself, Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be 0:44:56.360 --> 0:45:00.319 found on our website Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:03.560 theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records. 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:07.360 Heavyweight is a Spotify original podcast. Follow us on Twitter 0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:11.600 at Heavyweight, on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast, or email us 0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:15.160 at Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. You can also follow 0:45:15.160 --> 0:45:17.720 our show on Spotify and tap the bell to receive 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:21.680 notifications when new episodes drop. We'll be back next week 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:30.520 with a new episode.