Wells Spills the Reunion Tea

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Speaker 1: What's up, Happy Hour listeners. I'm one of your hosts, Becka Kouffrin, and unfortunately Michelle is out sick today, so I thought it would be fun to bring in one of our favorites and one of our how did they say it in the reunion, that's your nation royalty. I still go I saw referty as grocery store show referred to as royalty. It just allows people that just tell us apart, just like, can you stop doing that? I said that last night watched it with Thomas. I was like, I hate that. It makes me cringe. It's like, well, well, in your case, you are royalty because you and Serena were from King and Queen last year, so it's fitting for you. Well in my head on royalty, but I don't want other people to think that. No, it's yeah, it's it's rough to hear, but it was. It was fun being there. I enjoyed it. I thought the energy level it was pretty heavy in there, but I still had fun being first first role for the drama. And I'm happy to be here on Happy Hour with you. Oh, I'm so excited to have you here, not only because like you said, you were at the finale, but you also and this didn't make it because there was so much drama and everything else happening, but you and starting to actually made it down to the beaches of Paradise. You did have a little cameo during the finale week, unfortunately didn't see well, you know, I was. They caught out a lot of what Thomas and I did the week before too, So I get it. I just I said that it's because whatever we were saying was terrible, But I'm just gonna pretend it's because of all the drama that took over, But there was. It was interesting. I feel like the first episode this week, like that much happened. It was obviously like the make or Break week, where couples either stayed together or broke up. But the finale was unlike anything we've ever seen before. So let's get into that. We're gonna have the one and only Wells on to get his take on everything that we saw too very soon. But before we bring him on, Joe, catch us up on life. We haven't had you one happy hours since you have been a married man. Yeah. Well, actually, last time I was here, I was engaged. Now I'm a married man. Yeah, you're right, You're right. Everything's oh wild, yeah, yeah, very wild. I saw I forgot what Bachelor account m fan account posted it, but there was a photo of you, me and Tia, and it's like, let's take it back. Who would have thought that Fecca is engaged, prom King and Queen are married and Tia has a baby on the way, Like, wow, hey, there was something in the water last year of Paradise. We're all doing it right. It's I know, I think was it the picture of us all napping together? No, but that would have been great. But there is that picture too, that's still my favorite. Oh my gosh, so many fun memories. I like, I love you and Serena every time we're together. I just you guys are so perfect for each other. But I was shocked when I saw that you guys got married. I knew it was coming, you know, like Serena and I've talked about plans, but but I saw the photos and I was like, Joe didn't here a dress up for this? What as bougie as you are, Well, we wanted to, we wanted to downplay it because we do want the ceremony that we're gonna have next year to be like the big thing, but we still wanted to We were excited and we wanted to get married, and we just went and did it and it was actually, honestly, it was a lot of fun. It took a lot of the pressure off. Yeah, and now we could just plan on having a fun wedding. And we have decided that we're going to do Charleston, South Carolina. That's where we're getting married again next year. Yes, yeah, Okay, what made you true charge? Where are you guys getting married? Joe? We were just between, I don't know, we were just between, Like we wanted to do destination for everyone. Most of our friends and family are Toronto, Chicago, we have some in New York, some in California. Um, but we want to do somebody that's warm, and we just figured like South Carolina is easy to get to for a majority of the people. Sorry for people in Los Angeles. It's not um and it's just a fun it's a fun little city. It's it's a great little getaway. Um. Yeah. So yeah, and they got good food, such good food there. I've only spent a day in Charleston and I fall in love. So I'm hey, I'm all for this. I bet I better get that in. By Joey, what are you guys doing for Thanksgiving? Chicago? We're going to Chicago. So Canadian Thanksgiving is actually a month beforehand, so it's in October. So we were Serena and I we just do everything twice. I guess we were basically yeah, yeah, but we're going to Chicago. We're gonna go to my families for Thanksgiving. So I'm excited. I haven't been back there now and like almost three months, so I'm excited to go back. Oh that'll be so nice. I really Thomas and I always talk about like wanting to go visit Marie and Kenny. So we should plan a team trip back there for a long weekend at some point. Yeah, let's do it. Love Love, Love Love Chicago. Okay, Joe, let's talk about this finale, because, like we said, it was a very interesting one. I feel like there's way, way, way more that went down that we will never see. And you luckily were there, so I can pick your brain a little bit on it, Like what is some of the most wild shit that you saw on that stage between any of the couples. Okay, well, I mean, I mean I we'll get into it. But the Victoria Johnny greg situation was by far the most wild. I mean, you know, being there and then like knowing all of them and just like rewatching it and seeing the way I went down. But anyways, that was that was that was the most wild. I was surprised, even though I knew because I had saw her in Chicago, but I Tyler and Brittany, I was surprised that they ended it the way they did right that. Yeah, oh totally. That seemed very abrupt too, And I feel like, and maybe this is just how things were kind of pieced together. Like I feel like there wasn't even really a reason why. It was like we were together, we went into other's families, you know, she started traveling, and that was kind of it. I will say, I understand relationships don't work out, right, Like I get that we've all been there through a well, you know, I threw a public breakup, but I guess I felt for Tyler like it seemed like he still didn't have the closure Keen needed. Is that the vibe that you got when you were there? Yeah, well yeah, and that's how and that's how it seemed to me. It's kind of obvious, Like I think Brittany just got home and was like, I was really into this guy in the setting on the beach, in the moment, and I don't. I don't really like him. I'm not that into him, and there's no easy way to go about it. So I think I think the breakup was seemed to be kind of sloppy, but okay, So this is something that I've said before, and and maybe it's just kind of like reading the room or reading people's vibes. It feels like there are multiple couples that were on that beach this year, oh every year. I guess that there's like a certain excuse or like things are trying how do I want to where this like the way people end things, I feel like isn't totally direct, and sometimes, at least just once, I wish there was somebody who's like, look, you're a great person, I'm just not that into you. We never hear that, and that's I think the case in a lot of these relationships. I feel like that was the case maybe with Eliza and Rodney, with Brittany and Tyler, some others where I just want the bluntness. At one point in my life on this show. Yeah, and I think it takes. I think it takes a little experience. You know, I've done it twice now, and when I went back the second time, I was very upfront and honest with Serena the whole time, and that kind of opened the door for communication. So we were always like, we had the conversations about like, how do we really feel about each other, what do we want to do after the show? How are we going to actually make this work. I don't think a lot of the couples. I think they shy away from having those conversations because they're scared their love story is not gonna make it. And then they go out in the real world and they're like, oh fuck, we should had those conversations because now it's not Now it's definitely not gonna last. Yea, And I think that's what happened. You know, I was lucky because I did get to do it totally. Yeah, no, Joe, I completely agree. And I'm sure you went into your second time around on Paradise with a completely different mindset. You knew certain conversations that you were going to have to have early on, and that's that's because we were lucky enough to do it again. And yeah, I think like when you first go on the show, you're kind of blinded by everything, like it's it's all new. You basically are on this vacation with your friends. You get free food, free drinks, and it is like this, like the sense of like finding a partnership and love is heightened. It's not a thousand percent realistic to go in and be like, oh, it's gonna be smooth sailing after this, Like you really have to go through life outside of the show to get to know somebody. And I mean, you and I have done it, so we knew, but not most people coming on this show don't have that, which I kind of wish there was like a little checklist going in and like make sure you're talking about X y Z before you find a partner that you want to leave the beach with. Definitely, And I think, and I think a lot of people and I'm guilty of this too, Like you get casting on the show and you're like, oh, sure, like fall I'll fall in love if it happens, But I don't think it's going to happen. But I think you truly have to want to be in a relationship for this show to work. That's that's like the biggest thing, because I think a lot of people go on this show and go on paradise and don't necessarily know if they want to actually be in a relationship. They're just like all fall in love if it happens. So I think, oh, yeah, you have to still be willing to put in the work and the time. Yeah, And like most people have seen, it's like, it's not an easy relationship where you can just pop in your car and drive five minutes, wait and see the person. It's like across the country. You have to make time and effort for somebody else if you're willing to commit to them, which I think that's the hardest part for most couples coming out of the show. So when you bring up wanting to actually be in a relationship, let me get your take on the Kate and Logan situation, because after everything is said and done, and we've seen this entire season play out and their ups and downs, it seemed like Logan genuinely wanted to be in a relationship, and I'm not quite sure where Kate landed. What was the vibe on that stage for the finale with the two of them. Yeah, it just seems the vibe seemed like the same vibe that they had on the beach where it was just like it was really to me, it just seemed like neither of them were that into each other ever, and the relationship was built on bickering back and forth and why they aren't good for each other. So honestly, it felt like their whole relationship to me felt just like a waste of time. And when what was the name of the girl that walked down late that Logan seemed to be into and then no Unny Lindsay, Logan was into her, it seemed to be into her, and then Kate so like, don't go. But to me, it just seemed like Kate just didn't want didn't want it to work with him anyway, so just he should have just went. I wanted Logan to stand up for himself sooner in that relationship because to me, it seems like they both just wasted each other's time. Yeah, but I like, you know, if I guess if there's somebody that would have been like a handsome rich man, Kate would have probably been more into him, but Logan the whole like him not having money thing. I just felt like that was hit over the head too many times and I was really just like, this is just brutal to watch. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing. It's like, Kate, you you wanted a certain partnership, You wanted certain attribute attributes in a partner that maybe coming on the Beaches of Paradise you're not going to find yeah at this point in the game. But yeah, um oh, I was going to ask you about Oh, this is what I wanted to ask you since you were there. So we had Rachel on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, and I know she was at the finale too, and we had asked her, like, who had surprised you who really stood out during the finale? And she said Eliza And basically the conversation with her and Justin and Rodney, was there anything that like we really missed his viewers from the finale that took place between the three of them, because I think he just kind of brushed over pretty fast. Yeah, we didn't see any of her and Justin um and I think the reason for that is because they didn't work out and she went back to Baltimore to see if it would work. They clearly worn't on the same page, and I feel like that was the same vibe I got from them at the reunion that they just weren't like it was just not gonna work. It didn't work out. So I don't think we missed I don't think we missed much. There were you surprised when she and that she asked Rodney to give it another chance, but made the comment of like, I think we could still work out and being a great relationship. Was that shocking at all? No, it wasn't. I don't It wasn't really shocking. I think because Justin basically said no. When she went back to Baltimore. I think she was kind of like, well, in spite of Justin, like I should have chose Rodney, and I think that's where it came from. But I don't think Eliza and Rodney would ever worked out. It looked like they would have, but she she was clearly into Justin at a point. So that's a sign right there in my Ah. Man, I've said it said before and I'm to say it again. Rodney should have been Bachelor. But um, okay, let's talk about one more couple that obviously stole the show. They stole everyone's hearts. The one couple that got engaged and I think we'll make it down the aisle, and that's Brandon and Serene. They seem just so freaking cute, so in love, and I think that they're already making plans to like be together, move in together, make this work, which I love to see. So any predictions for advice for the two of them, Yeah, And I talked to Brandon a little bit after the show, and my advice to them is just enjoy each other's company and have fun with it all because it is a great time. Like this shouldn't be difficult than if it is, then you guys have to go back and figure out why. But yeah, have fun with it. And there's a lot of you know, we've watched you know, I've seen this show now so many seasons. Now, that's crazy. You know, we go from never watching the show watching it every every day. Yeah, I just no way to have a freaking expert. But you know, there's certain relations, you know, couples at the end of if it's The Bachelor, the Bachelor app Bachelor in Paradise, So you're like, ah, I don't I don't know if they're gonna work like I would would bet a lot that Brandon and Serene will work out forever. I really think that, and I think that's a great thing, and I think that's um what it's about, right right, I agree? Okay, Well, Joe, it was so fun recapping this with you and just picking your brain and getting your side of things. But we also need to bring on our guests because he lived through it all. He was the storyteller, the bartender, the host. At times, he's just the jack of all trades. So everyone, let's welcome. Well, it's a happy hour. Wells, we're so excited to have you back on Happy Hour. I think the last time we had you here was last year for Paradise. I want to say, so it's been a while, but since then, you've lived a full life. You are a married man. How has newly Went life been. Yeah, it's been eighty four years since I spoke to you last four Everything has been great. Yeah, I got married. I got hitched. Joe's there, he saw it happen, so he can he can attest that I did, in fact get married. We went on a honeymoon. We got COVID on the way back from the honeymoon. So that was fun. No. Yeah, and all the while I filmed obviously Paradise. And then I have a new show on Hulu called Best in Dough or it's a pizza cooking competition. So we'll fingers crossed we get a season two because when you get Joe on that show, I was gonna say, get a sauce. No, I know exactly what we said. Um, And I want to be honest, I've I'm watching it and I really enjoy it, and I think I would crush personally. Well I think that, Um, I mean, you can come and cook if you want, But I feel like you'd be a great judge, like a celebrity judge that comes in and talks about Chicago pizza and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. I like that even more. It's it's less less pressure being a judge instead, and then you just get to eat good food. Yeah, and you'll get paid no matter what, Like you don't have to win the cooking competition to get some money, So that's what's important. I would like handler. I would love to be a handler on this show just so I could like be behind the scenes, take care of you fellas, and then get some good food. Yeah. I uh, I've gained some weight doing that show. Not gonna lie. I weighed myself on day one of filming, and then after, you know, two weeks of doing it, I had I put on a couple of lbasts. But you know what, that's Hollywood baby, anything anything for the show. Well, you look great, I got I got a question before, I got a question before we get into it. Uh, your honeymoon was that your full honeymoon? Because I remember I thought you said you were like doing like a two part honeymoon, like you can only go away for a few days and then and then like you were going to do a longer one. Yeah. So we got married and Sarah still had to film like the after show for Love Island. Um, so we couldn't leave the country until that was done. So so when we've got married, we spent like another day at the estate where we got married, which was nice. And then we went up to Big sur which is close to where I grew up and it's like a place it's like near and dear to both of us now. And then we stayed there for a couple of days, then went to Santa Barbara. She filmed her like the after show for Love Island, and then we jumped on a plane and went to the Maldives, which I gotta say, real nice, you know, real nice. Two thumbs up for the Maldives. How long were you there for? Because I feel like it's such a long flight to get there and it's so remote that once you're there, it's like you want to send at least two weeks on an island. Yeah, so it's a while. It's like we had to fly to Doha. Um, so we flew there. That's like a sixteen hour flight and then it's like a four hour flight to Malee and then it's like an hour boat ride. So yeah, it's like a full day of travel and travel day back. But we were there for eight days. But I have a weird thing where I have a threshold for vacations. This is such Champagne problems, I'm about to say, but it's true, Like I can really only do five days of vacation before I start losing my mind. And I'm like, I need to get home. I need to get back on my routine, and I need to go on my workout, so I need to even cook my food. So after day five, I was like, I got it. It's beautiful. The drinks are amazing, but and it's it's it's donny. I mean that's where we filmed my finale for the show. And it's so beautiful. But there's only a handful of things you can do, right, Like, I'm sure you biked. You might have golfed, storcled, and that's really it, right, Yeah, no golf. But and what's the great is, Yeah, we had all these bicycles, which is super cute and if you go watch I think that's all my TikTok um, Sarah cannot ride a bike, so uh so we got just learned. Yeah, like in I mean, which is crazy because you grew up in New York, which I feel like everyone rides bikes in New York. But like, she just took a train. So we got her a kid bike with m with training wheels, and yeah, she just rode the Luckily she's little so she fit on it. But if you want to go watch it on my TikTok it's hilarious. We were riding bikes and she was memorizing plays on Broadway. She had a full time job. She was making money. Are you guys are either you guys watching White Lotus. No, I'm not yet. Well it's good. Is that the one with the new season? Yeah, it has a new season. But like watching it, I like don't want to have a honeymoon because it's so fucking impressing and they like make it so depressing. Oh but no, Well I can confirm that honeymoons are pretty cool. You eat really really well, you drink a lot, and then you get to do the six Joe, and that's nice too, So I love doing the sex the sex. Wait, yeah, Joe. Now that you're officially married, do you guys? I know that you're planning a big wedding for later this well this next year, But are you guys going to do a little honeymoon before then? No, we're gonna do the honeymoon after the ceremony that we're going to do in September. Okay, well, well it's can prep you by by then, you know, yeah, get you ready? Oh my gosh. Okay, So you say you have a threshold of five days on vacation. Obviously Paradise is different because you're working, but you're there for what a month and a half or at least, So how do you not go crazy when you're there, or do you? I mean, yeah, I think everyone goes a little bit crazy. I think both of you guys can probably attest to that. Um. For me though, it is, Yeah, it's very much like work for me. So I like I go and I clock in, and I and I bartend and do all the interviews and stuff I gotta do and then you know, I think you guys remember last year I did. It was similar. I did a lot of night shoots, so I'd kind of like leave it like three in the morning, um, and then I would sleep until like one, and then I'd like go on my run and eat and then it would be like okay, time to come back to work. So it was it's kind of like a like a just kept going. Um. So it's not really like a vacation for me per se, but uh yeah it's But I love that gig, Like it's so much fun to see it all go down and then to watch it back again and be like, oh, yeah, I forgot about that, you know, brings back all the old memories. Yeah. Well, so we were raving about you because I had Thomas on this podcast last week. Look, people, I think when they see you. They're like, oh, Wells has the best gig. He's just showing up to bartend. But you do so much more. Like you said, you're doing so many more night shoots, especially last season two, and we didn't have like a full time host. You would come in and host rose ceremonies. Even when we were with you for the Sadie Hawkins Dance, you hosted that entire night. You didn't leave till what four or thirty in the morning. You're basically always on the clock. Yeah, so much of my good ship gets cut. It's really quite depressing. Like this this after show. They had to call to tell me, hey, so because I did like four or five like kind of like segments and they're like, ah, so We're gonna cut all of the stuff that you did. And I'm like, why was I there all day? Such a long day. But yeah, that the Sadie Hawkins Dance was hilarious because you know, the big thing is like superlatives. You want to find out like who is the best kisser and who's the cutest couple and like Joe one last year for like prom king Queen Queen. Yeah, yeah, she seems like I still love the Crown behind the Big Deal no big Deal, and so you know, they were like, you need to stick around because you need to announce like the the superlatives. And then it just started to like go off the rails real fast, and everyone was like falling asleep or leaving, and so they're like, you need to stay because we want the credit roll shot of you like announcing the winners and no one being there. And I was like, you know what, that sounds really funny. I'll stick around for that. But I remember that night you were there. You guys were there with me, and then you bailed out, like four hours before I even gotten to start filming that. Yeah, we left at like one or one thirty. I was like, I am thirty two. This is way past me at that time. They don't need me to announce anyone's name because we knew people were leaving, Like we knew Andrew and Jennia left. I'm like, we just got to go. Wells has this, But yeah, you they felt so so much. And I feel like a lot of the good parts, if they're not dramatic part, you know, part of the crazy couples, it doesn't get included. So this finale, well, the reunion that you were at. Joe, you were there too, so you can both kind of talk about this. But for me as a viewer, I felt like there was so much that we did not see, Like it felt like everything was so crammed into the two hour reunion and like, what was the most wild part that wasn't even aired? Well, there was a lot we didn't see because it was filmed for twelve twelve hours. Yeah, I mean, well, selfishly, the most fun thing we did was this game called Nectar or Not Nectar and I it was a game show where I asked the cast like if something was nectar or not nectar, and then they had to all like decide what was nectar or not nectar, and then Aaron got to be the one who decides who was right or not. And it was hilarious because Aaron is like the funniest freaking guy. He's got that you know, that like whoa bro thing, so you think he's stupid, but he's so quick. It's just like this weird affectation that he has in his voice. And I was like, he's like could be a stand up comedian. And so I was so bummed that got cut because it was really really funny, but obviously the vibe of the show was a very very serious one with the whole like Victoria and great thing. It was just it. You know, usually when you go to those after shows, there's a winner and a loser in those things. I mean, I think maybe no one's a winner in the situation, but like Kate and Logan, it seemed like Logan was like the winner in that, Like he kind of looked better than Kate did for the whole, the whole like Victoria and Greg of it all, Like everyone just looked bad and I felt sad about that. Yeah, that was watching that, that was that was rough. But I will say being there, it was like the most of the cast, like nobody was smiling, nobody was happy, Like I remember, you know, doing Paradise the first time in the reunion show, and it just was a different vibe, like even though people didn't get along on the beach, everybody was happy to be there. Walls, would you say this one? I mean, to me, I thought it was the most serious reunion I've ever seen or been too. I would I would agree with that, like, and that was one of the reasons why I was bummed that like a lot of my stuff got cut because it felt so heavy that it was like we need some yucks in this whole thing, you know, like we need to remind everyone that this is a fun show and like this is, you know, um a silly one. But yeah, it was definitely I hate to like do like the Bachelor Nation cliche, but it was like definitely the most dramatic one we've done. And I think that's a fair statement, but it felt like to the everything that was included from what we saw for as a viewer standpoint, was very like kind of cordial too. Like from what we heard when it was actually filmed, it was pretty crazy. It was wild. People were going at it, but like the bits that we saw, it seemed like Aaron and Genevieve basically said like the right things, like you know, we both take lame and we wish each other the best. Katon Logan kind of like had their peace, and same with I would say, Rodney and Eliza. Like it didn't seem like anyone was really still going at it, which I guess I expected something completely different, and I wonder if it's because it was so heavy with that Victoria Johnny, Greg Love mess. Yeah, I guess maybe everything's relative. And then so when you think of like your problems, then you watch the the Greg Victoria kind of bs and it's like, h maybe, well let's just call what it is. That was fucking nuts, the whole thing, the whole story. Watching it back Greg coming out, I was like, yeah, Greg there, I was like, why didn't Greg just go onto Paradise? Like what? I guess? I was confused with that. So do we know like timing of anything, because it made it seem like great not Greg? Whoa not Greg and Johnny. Victoria and Johnny were only together for what they said, three weeks I think after Paradise and then that's when they called it quits. And Joey, you might know better because you did the podcast with Nick and and Victoria and Greg after the finale, right after that was all filmed. No, I didn't do a podcast with them. I thought you were they'll take me down this, they'll take this dark podcast that broke batchination that everyone's like, oh my god, Victoria and Greater together. No, it was after the reunion show. Nick had invited us over to dinner, so we went there in Victoria and Greg were also there and we had dinner and Nick had filmed a TikTok, put together a TikTok and then um, that was the one that like spread like wildfire and of course or something just going like this, you know, this kind of dinner party. Yeah, but yeah, it was it was intense. Well, okay, yeah, So I guess my question is this is a good question for you, Joe, because you've lived through Paradise a couple of seasons now, and you you went through kind of what I went through last year the first time around, where you and Kendall broke up, rekindled afterwards, stated for a while, and then when you and Serena went on. Obviously you guys had the best outcome where you got in age. Do you feel, knowing how hard it is, that transition off of the beach back into the real world and trying to make relationship work, do you feel like they gave it a fighting chance or do you feel like things gone hard and they kind of just threw the towel in and they're like, that's it, let's move on. Well, I have to say that I think it should be very easy after the show, and for me it was extremely with Serena. It was extremely easy and it was just a lot of fun and a lot of excitement. And I feel like if you don't get that right away, you're you're kind of doomed unless, you know, unless you both really put effort. But it's all about the effort you're gonna put into it, because it's not easy. You both live in different states. You're really not supposed to see each other unless you do the set up happy couple weekend. So but yeah, like for me, yeah, it was you know, we're that couple, like we never fight, but like, yeah, it was just really easy. How could you fight with Serena? How could you fight with Joe's the question? Oh, Joe, Joe, Joe Joe. So well, I'm interested to know if any of these couples, I guess not even from this season, but any season, if they ever reach out to you post filming to ask for advice or to check in, like are you I feel like you're always there for people who need it, But does anyone check in with you to say, like, hey, what did other couples do? Were like, I need advice in this situation. After the first season of that, Joe did a Paradise. He called me and asked me for advice. I remember the first person. I love this and I gave you advice and you didn't take it, and I think I was right about that. But they love me. You give the advice that I now pass on to other people that asked me for advice. Yeah, they take it. Does anyone take it Joe? No, they definitely. If we've learned anything from the six years of Paradise I've filmed, no one takes my advice. And then they are like A should like taking your advice? That was stupid, Uh, to answer your question though, like yeah, obviously every year there are like relationships that um are stronger for me than than other ones, Like Joe UM is a good example of that. Like they didn't We didn't see it a lot last season, but Joe and I did a lot of like guy chats um and like heart to hearts and me giving him advice and kind of back and forth, which is, by the way, not to cut you off, but as a shame that they never showed some of it. It was gold It was great TV, but go ahead, Walls, it was gold um. And then you know this for for me this year it was Michael Um. He well, he were the same age, so like we have the same bad jokes and like like the same music right off the bat. Um and he's a sweet guy and like and and I'm kind of in this realm too now, like I'm in a different place in my life than I was when I first started doing this show. Um, and I felt like he is too, Like his story is much different than mine, but like older stakes are a little bit higher, Like it's not just for fun and like Instagram follows, like it's it's truly like he's there for something very very specific, not to say other people aren't, but like he's just in a different kind of season of life and I could relate to that. And so you know, during the show, I gave him a lot of advice and obviously I had I had a dog in the fight because he started dating my good friend Danielle, who I knew, look before we both did the show. We were really good friends in Nashville. So that's a little scary thing too, of like putting someone trying to set up to people and one of those people's like really really close to you. We've all been there and like you play matchmaker, and you're like, I don't know if this is a good idea, And I was kind of living in that world of like, I hope I didn't, you know, hook up my one of my dearest friends in the world with someone who was not going to be protective of her heart. And what I learned was is that that was untrue. Like he Michael was like the nicest, sweetest guy. And I go back to answer your question before when you were talking about like something that like I we didn't we missed from the show. There was a lot more of the Michael Danielle story that we didn't see. And I've done the show for a very long time, and I feel like I can kind of sniff out in authenticity from a mile away at this point, and their story like on the couch, when he finally tells her that he is in fact in love with her, it was the most authentic thing I've seen on that stage I think ever. Like she was shocked. It was funny because Jesse was trying to get through like prompter reads and like get us into commercial and she gave zero fucks about that because she was so like caught up in the moment of that thing happening that she was like stepping over all of Jesse's lines, which was hilarious to me because you know, it's sometimes you're like is any of this real or whatnot? And from where I was standing, I was like, this is one of the most authentic things I've seen on this show and it made me here up a little bit. And um, I think that's why we watch it, though, is because we get to have those feelings, whether they're laughing, crying, or anger. Did you did you have any doubt in Brandon and Serene, Like how early on did you know like this couple? Because like watching it, I'm like they for me. I wasn't sure about Michael and Danielle as much because you don't see as much on the show. But Brandon Serene, I was like, they're gonna they're gonna get married right after they're gonna get engaged. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I will. After the first Rose ceremony, I think we all were making the joke of like, what are we doing here? Uh. I gave them the advice of like, hey, don't do the thing that everyone does when they find someone they like right right off the bat, and it's like, not engaged with people, um like not be fun on the beach. And because I'm like, you'll you'll won't be on the show like if you if you're not talking to people are like having fun, Like you just get cut that show and you'll be so annoyed by it. And they didn't listen, and um, I mean like it was like they were they were so cute and so great, but like Brandy is hilarious, Like he's one of like the funniest guys on the beach, and I was like, hey, stop napping so much with your wife and like, go do the synchronized swimming thing. I think it'll be fun, you know. Like, but yeah, we all knew that they were going to get married immediately. Yeah, very apparent. Was there any other couple that you thought would maybe make it last that didn't or that surprised you that were like who surprised? I guess? Um. I think that I was most surprised by Frieze. Yeah you got you back. Um, I think I was most surprised by Johnny and Victoria. And I think I was right about that. I was really rooting for for Lace and Rodney. I wanted Lace, She's an old friend of mine. We did B I P three together, and I'm just like kind of rooting for Like, she just is one. She's just fun to be around. She's really good on TV, if that makes any sense, Like she's funny. She like will cry for no reason because she's just kind of like a headcase. But like Hertha, she's just so good and I am she just deserves I think the world. And Rodney is like the sweetest guy in the world. And I really was rooting for that, but you know, what can you do? Liza came in and kind of knocked everything out. Yeah, okay, So speaking of Rodney, then, how sad how heavy was the atmosphere on that beach when he ended up leaving, Because and I said this our post couple of weeks ago, it's like one thing for the couples that are breaking up to have emotions and to shed some tears. But I felt like everyone on the beach was crying when Rodney left, Like we've never seen that scale of tears for one person. I don't think before how how heavy was that? Yeah, it was tough. I think that, Um, that's a testament to like how good of a guy Rodney is. And I think that's like something that everyone should kind of aspire to be, Like, is someone who's that kind and that generous and that beloved That everyone cried when he left, Like that's ridiculous, Like no one cried when I left the show. Uh, you know, like no one gave a shit. Uh. I should be more like a Rodney, I guess. But yeah, he was just such a lovable guy. And yeah, I kind of I kind of wish he was the bachelor looking back, you know, he would he deserves, he deserves. Yeah. Yeah, that seemed, you know, extremely dramatic the way everybody was crying when he left. When he left, I was like, all right, you guys, you know, yeah, I get it. But it also might have been a thing of like everyone was kind of, you know, worn, a bit thin, you know, they've been written hard and hung up wet kind of a thing like that. I think everyone was just a little cuckoo for Coco Puffs at that moment and it just started to all come out. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, but you know, but you know what I will say, and because they re showed it during the finale is like the moment when Ronnie went up to address the group and he was like I think it was he said he was embarrassed. In his voice kind of cracks and he his tears in his eyes, like and Ronnie is so pure, He's like a golden retriever, Like just is so loving and caring and loyal, like would not her to fly. So I feel like in that moment, yeah, like lack of sleep, you have no normalcy to like structure or like daily life things besides like eating and drinking on the beach. So I get why people kind of broke at that point too. Okay, Wells, you talked about how you felt like at one point the beach was making you dumber. Yeah, in regards to the whole itching, painful fight between Genevieve and Aaron, do you still stand by that statement? Yeah, I don't. I don't know if um, if going there every year is making me smarter, I will say that. Uh. But here's the thing I disagree with, Like what that doctor said, Like, I don't I think that pain. I think that itch is low level pain. I think. And so I'll give you this, do you I do so when you get a scab, okay, like you cut yourself and the scabs over um at some point it starts to itch and you're supposed to It's it's like a I feel like it's a thing to like get the scab off, I guess, but I think there are two different sensations, like pain and itch are different. Okay, So here's my other thing. Have you ever have you ever had poison oak on your on yours? Have you ever had poison from Chicago? Okay on my eggs? Yeah, well I was talking about my my test. Uh so I grew up. I want to know what kind of situation you're in to get it on. Yeah, So I'll explain this to you. It's not like I'm like whacking off in a freaking poison oak bush. So what happens is, and this happened a lot when I was a kid. We play like in the backyard and there's poisonoke everywhere, and you'd get it on your hands, um, and then you'd go to the bathroom, and to go to the bathroom for boys, you have to to touch it pull it out. Yeah, you have to got to pull it out. And so that's how you'd get it on there. And I'm telling you, it's the most painful thing in the world. And it's itch. Okay, so I'm saying it's the same thing. Yeah, but it might be the beginning of the pain, but it's they're still different. But like, like this is an extreme scenario, Like what if you just get a mosquito by Like that's not painful. Yeah, it's annoying and you itch it and then throw some cream on it and it's fine. But like, Okay, we're getting way too into this fight again and we might be making ourselves dumber. Just can you just talk a little about a little bit about Aaron and Genevieve's relationship as a whole, Like from the get go, did you think they would work out? I will say their fights are very as dumb as they are pretty entertaining. You know. It's funny. After the show, we all went out to the bar and I was talking to them, mainly Genevieve. I was like, I think you guys, I know this is crazy, but I think you guys are perfect for one another. And she was like, how, so what are you talking about. I'm like, well, to be honest with you, as as someone who is married to the love of his life, marriage isn't about finding the person that like agrees with you on everything, and everything is super easy. Marriages work, like you have to work on things, you have to be you have to compromise on things, you have to be able to talk. And a lot of the things that Genevieve and Aaron have are amazing, Like they obviously have a lot of like spark and romance, and they have a lot of the things that you need. What they don't have is communication. And it's not because they're bad at communicating with each other. They're bad at communicating with everybody. It's not just locally to each other. They're both too whacka dues. And all they need to do is sit down maybe with a therapist or something and talk about their communication practices. And once they do that, I'm sorry, but like they're the most amazing, beautiful, weird couple and I would love to go on vacation with them. So I'm still holding out hope for those two. Sitting in the audience watching them in the hot seats, I was like, like, make out, get back together, Like I really wanted to see them get back together. Okay, So what you're both saying is, in this case, two negatives might make a positive here. Yeah, absolutely, opposite a tract. Okay, I agree, Okay, interesting, Well, who knows, maybe they'll do we know, like did they did they talk after the finale? Like do they have plans to rekindle? Do we have any sense of this? I don't. I don't think so. I don't think they'll ever get back together. I think we hate each other. I want to ask you about Joe or whoa not Joe Jacob and Jill. Do we think they have the potential to go go the distance here now that they rekindle this little flame? I mean, I hope. So they were like the weird couple on the beach that like you're like, that's gonna they're gonna get married. It's you know, like Evan and Carly, you know, when we saw them and you're like, these two people are super weird, but like maybe perfect for one another. Um, so I hope. So I'm holding out hope for him. I'm still I'm still confused that their interaction at the reunion and how they even got back together because they were both just like I'm open to it. I'm also open to it. That was it? Okay. I just want to know if everyone that came down on the beach, either this summer or in the past that is still single. Who would you love to see return? M M that's a good question. Um. Litle John I love he was the best. He was. He brought so much, so good, so good. He came in, got everyone shots. Uh. I love that guy. He was so much And I remember hearing that and being like, I don't understand why Little John's here, but okay, I'm here for it. And then he came and I was like, I get it. What an amazing grab. Oh yeah, Little Job came down at the same time Mara came down. That's the difference. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being here. We love having you on a happy hour. I can't wait to see you on the beaches hopefully again next year. Um, and until then, enjoy this next chapter of your newly life. Thank you so much. It's good to seeing you guys. I missed you all. Please come over to Los Angeles and say hi to me and come down to San Diego too. Yeah, I'm there, Joe. It's so much fun having you on. You know, I miss you. It's always a blast. Let's get into overall what your rose and thorn was from this season because I know that you not only watched it, but you also were there for part of it. So give me your highlight and low lighte. So my Rose is going to have to go to I'm gonna have to get the Rose to Brandon and Serene. They made it all the way through, they're happy at the end. I'm happy for him, and I really think they're gonna last. My Thorn is going to go to everyone else. My Thorn is getting everyone who didn't make it. Yeah, my Thorn, man, you know I want I actually, I'm gonna give it to Aaron and Genevieve because I like them both and I just there's a part of me that I still want them to work, and I don't think they ever will, but I just I see something there between them. So that's who's getting it. Okay, Okay, interesting. So I'm gonna start with the Thorn and just get it out of the way. I think for me, it was kind of overall a slightly disappointing season, and maybe that's just because last year. I mean, obviously we were there and it was so much fun, but I feel like there were so many couples that came out of Paradise like, what is it now six or seven couples are sold together that met on that beach or well submit before. But you know what I'm saying, And and you know, I'm not lumping Brandon and Serena in this or Michael and Damielle because they're still going strong. But it just seemed like it didn't the elgor orythm didn't work as well this time around. And maybe chalk it up to like the switch week or I don't know what wasn't my favorite favorite season, but I'm going to say my rose is probably well, I think it was probably just going back down there. When Thomas and I were in Mexico, we saw you and Serena were able to grab drinks and dinner one night and just catch up, and it was fun being back down there but not having the pressure of finding a partner and fallen in love because we already did that, and so it was much more fun this time around. And so that's going to be the Rows. And then I also have to give a shout out to Brandon and Serene because they are such a freaking cute couple and you, like, you can truly tell that they love each other, and I really think that they will work out in the long run. So congratulations to those two. Congratulations to Danielle and Michael. But Joe, before we let you go. We do this every week now on Happy Hour, which is sharing a resource, because I think it's so important for people to just stay informed and give resources to those who might be needing them, are looking for them and don't want to have to search too hard. So the resource that I want to share this week, it's a little bit different, but because this upcoming Saturday is Small Business Saturday, I thought, I think it's so important to give back to those small businesses, but especially black owned businesses or people who people of color who own businesses. So I'm going to share some of my favorite that I have been to, both in San Diego and Minnesota, and then if you want to share some either from Chicago or New York where you live. Now, I have my hand to dandy little list here, but a couple black owned, black owned small businesses in Minnesota. I've shared this one before. It is called Black Garnet Books. It's I believe in Saint Paul. You can get your books online. The shop just opened about a month ago, and so I love that one Black Garnet Books. Pimento is one of my favorite Jamaican food places. They have a couple locations. It is delicious if you like some spice, so good. There's one called Dinolo if you like to shop, and it's a cute boutique with accessories and clothes. And then one it is a fitness class called I think it's pronounced Zisa or Zessa. I took a class once right after my season and it kicked my butt, but it was so fun. And so that's I'm Minnesota based one. And then in San Diego some that I would recommend Breakfast Bitch such a fun brunch place. You have to go check it out. Hammond's ice Cream, Thomas Night are obsessed, My hust Cookies, Studio Bar for another fitness class. And then any of the restaurants owned by the Trust Group or bread Wise, Cardolino, Fort Oak are all delicious, highly highly recommend. So those are some of my black owned small businesses to support this Saturday. Nice and Joey Nice, let's go in Chicago. I'm gonna do in a may Tavern, great little spot. Um chef Juepeas awesome, awesome chef, and they have Frontier two, which is another another bar restaurant, Chill Vibes, Great Spat, Great food eleven eleven. Ahmed's got an incredible bar in the restaurant. Um. I believe the restaurant was decorated by Virgil who was the creative director Louis Tom before you and he passed away. But I believe he decorated decorated it. But I'm not one hundred percent on that. And then let's go Flaves has a great jerk chicken sandwich. And then I got, um see what else? A Hispanic grocery store, Hispanic owned um Alwaos. There's like six locations. Those are great stores. That's what I got off the top of my head. I knew I could count on you for all the good food spots. I love it. Well, thank you Joe, it was so fun having you on. Michelle. We hope you're feeling better next week. And the biggest thing who goes out to Oliver Boucher Happy Hour listeners and once more, thank you Wells. We couldn't have gone through the season without you. Yes, and make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at Bachelor Happy Hour, Instagram and From there, you'll find everything you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok Gods, I'm just like Michelle Perfect And to all of our prime members. You can listen to Boucher Happy Hour add free on Amazon Music don't load the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad free with wonderre Plus in Apple Podcasts. And before you all go, tell us something about yourself by completing a short survey at ononderre dot com slash survey. And one last thing is that to all of you out there, if you know any men to date our next boucherrette, we are currently casting. I say we like I'm part of this casting process. I am not. But the show is casting for men for our next boucherette. So if you're single or you know somebody who is single, go to the website to nominate or apply. It's going to be at boucher Nation dot com slash apply. Thank you everyone and see you next week. Even though I won't be here, I'll be on clickbait so you can check me out over there. But chairs, chairs, chairs,