2025 Week 12 Recap: No One Takes the Points

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we love a little free football. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Westling podcast studio, and I'm with Patrick Claybon with all the claymates listening, both of you. I'm with Nick Shook with all the shook ones out there. And yes, this week twelve recap is for all the NFL dailiens in our universe. What a Sunday, an important Sunday where we finally lost Patrick Claybon as a member of Team Analytics.

00:00:42
Speaker 2: He's done with it. No, no, no over. I just I needed a place to go. I went there briefly. No, we're bat, Greg, stay there.

00:00:53
Speaker 1: I've never seen Patrick as mata anything as he has been about the fourth down decisions on this Sunday, especially from Liam Cohen and Brian Shottenheiman.

00:01:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were some ones that got a little bit wiggily there. I went to a dark place, but I'm back now. I did some research. Yes, I will get you know again. I have hit my yelling quota now twenty twenty five, not be yelling anymore. And we we were gonna I have a take I'm working on when we get.

00:01:20
Speaker 3: There, okay, and we'll give it to the people.

00:01:22
Speaker 1: Let's get there. Then let's talk about one of those games. Let's lead off with Cowboys Eagles to Jerry World forty two.

00:01:30
Speaker 4: Yards on the left hash to win the game, snapping home forty two yard kick from Aubrey. The Cowboys have won this football game. Butter Bubber, Butter, Butter Butters.

00:01:45
Speaker 3: I don't know when they won one.

00:01:47
Speaker 5: It's not like this.

00:01:49
Speaker 4: Forty two for Aubrey and the Cowboys win twenty four.

00:01:52
Speaker 6: To twenty one.

00:01:53
Speaker 7: Oh.

00:01:54
Speaker 1: The voice of the Dallas Cowboys, Brad Sham, I'm k r l D. He can't remember a game where they came back from twenty one nothing twenty one seven at halftime.

00:02:08
Speaker 5: Yes, holding the Eagles scoreless in.

00:02:10
Speaker 1: The second half, and perhaps overcoming a decision that made Patrick a little bit crazy. Brandon Aubrey with the walk off. Let's start with Shookie here. When the Eagles are dominating this game in the first half, I just could not imagine a scenario where the Cowboys came back and won it.

00:02:31
Speaker 5: And they are now five to five and one.

00:02:32
Speaker 1: And the theme early in this show is the Thanksgiving games getting a little more interesting and the Cowboys getting to five hundred what do you think was the most important thing that turned this game around?

00:02:43
Speaker 6: Oh?

00:02:43
Speaker 8: I mean this could spider web in a number of different directions, just based on the fact that it's not going to be a normal Monday morning in Philadelphia after this.

00:02:49
Speaker 9: But yeah, what was the most important thing?

00:02:50
Speaker 8: Well, I agree with you that when they were up twenty one to nothing, I thought there's no way they're rolling. They even checked off the most important box, which is get aj Brown involved and throw them a touchdown pass. Their social media teams having a field day with it. They posted a little video of Jalen Hurts sitting down saying, so that's what y'all wanted, huh, Except this is not what they wanted. They didn't want you to collapse in the second half and give away possession by fumbling a part return, by giving the Cowboys a chance that they didn't cash in, by failing to get within field goal range, and then giving up a field goal against your hated rival. This is a game you should have pulled away, and instead you crumbled. And that's why it's not going to be a normal Monday in Philadelphia.

00:03:26
Speaker 1: And I do want to get to the downside of the Eagles at some point here, But this was an awesome performance by a Cowboys offense who puts up four hundred and seventy three yards twenty five first downs, and George Pickens helps to take over in the second half, finishing with one hundred and forty six yards and nine catches on nine target on nine targets.

00:03:47
Speaker 2: Every single time the ball went in George Pickens' direction, he was making a play against a secondary where there's always an overmatch in the favor of the Philadelphia Eagles until they come into this situation where it's Ceedee Lamb and George Pickens and you're able to get a player who the folks watching that game, watching previous Cowboys games, it's tough to watch and say that George Pickens isn't the best player on the field, and you get him for a third round pick, And thanks to the nature of the franchise tag and all that, we may never get to see what George Pickens might actually be worth in an open market in this situation. But it's tough not to say the top five in.

00:04:24
Speaker 5: The league looking at you were saying he was the best receiver.

00:04:27
Speaker 2: In the league a little earlier in terms of like who's executing, who's making the plays that are available to them on the field, who's finishing plays Where you see George Pickens get loose, he steps out of a tackle, a legitimate threat to score every single time he catches the ball. I understand there were some wiggly moments he did, weird things that we had fun in talking about them in Pittsburgh. But the results speak for themselves. Greg He's a spectacular football player playing some of the best football of his career right.

00:04:55
Speaker 1: Now, and he did it on a day where his running partner Cede Lamb let the team down ultimately thre Redrops. I believe in this game a couple of real groaners where he's just like knocking it down like a volleyball, and then he didn't make a catch that preceded the brot Brian Schottenheimer decision on fourth down that you know, first of all, Ceedee Lamb should catch that ball. It's a really difficult throw by Dak Prescott into a tight window, but it goes through Ceedee Lamb's bread basket. It's tied twenty one. All this is late in the fourth quarter. We've got about three forty five to go and instead of taking a chip shot Brandon Aubrey field goal, they go for fourth end goal I believe from the Philadelphia one yard line. But they throw the ball and that was the point where you lost your mind, and I think analytics lost you forever.

00:05:44
Speaker 3: No, it's not that analytics lost me forever.

00:05:47
Speaker 2: I think the Dallas Cowboys called all the way back from down twenty one to nothing.

00:05:50
Speaker 3: They had a chance to take the lead, yes, in the fourth quarter.

00:05:54
Speaker 2: And I understand the model and the folks that Next Gen Stats put a lot of effort into the model, but there's some limitations there and determining what the decision should be in a football game that is actively happening in the moment, so the model has to make a few assumptions. And so you go in to the Next Gen Stats page and they're very forthcoming, very open with regards to how things are constructed. And so I'll read you guys a quote. The actual yards to go is a clear metric to provide to the model, because you want to know the down and distance and how that plays into your decisions. But there's not a lot of information that's available to the model in that moment. So the Vegas lines are used condense vast amounts of situational historical knowledge about the teams into a small set of numbers to involve that decision, specifically the point spread. And you know my opinion on what the goal of the point spread.

00:06:44
Speaker 5: Is to make people gamble more, to provide.

00:06:47
Speaker 3: An opportunity for people to make a decision to gamble.

00:06:49
Speaker 1: I think that's only that small part of the NGS.

00:06:53
Speaker 3: It's a small part.

00:06:54
Speaker 2: But when we're talking about decisions that are point zero zero nine in point zero zero four, I think in terms of evaluating the decision, I would like a model not to include Vegas is desired to make money on the football game, because I know people think Vegas is so smart and they know everything about football. They are not making decisions to be right about the game. They are making decisions to make money.

00:07:17
Speaker 3: They want. The lines are there to encourage action.

00:07:20
Speaker 2: So eventually you get to a point where you get a line, and that's because the line is changing over the course of the entire week because they would like the money. The money is the priority there.

00:07:30
Speaker 1: Yes, So I don't know how much it goes into it. I think you have to trust what you see and Brian Schottenheimer has said like he hears his dad's voice in his head and that he wants to be more conservative with these ideas. And I think he's thinking field position is part of it, because what happened to the Eagles offense is part of that decision. And what happened to them is they got a couple first downs, but they end up punting from their own nineteen yard line, setting up the Cowboys to end up going on that game winning goal drive. I was surprised because took the Eagles defense is that is the great unit in this game. A the Eagles offense is struggling, so if you put three points on the board here, actually I'd have a little bit of faith that the Cowboys can stop them. But I didn't mind the call too much to go for it there. I'm just more kind of amazed that everything happened down the stretch of this game on both sides of the ball. What disappointed you the most took like of how the Eagles finished this game out.

00:08:31
Speaker 8: Well, I felt like Patrick was heading toward making a case for momentum for a second with like you know, needing the context of the game to you know, kind of make a better decision, which I was about to be blown away by that, So thank you for steering away from that.

00:08:42
Speaker 9: That would have just made me useless for the rest of the show.

00:08:45
Speaker 8: I think it's just the second half lack of production, not that it's a surprise from the Eagles offense that has struggled mightily, and in fact, scoring twenty one points against anybody is an achievement for them, at least as of late. It's the fact that their defense given the opportunity to get some stops, which they did get stops.

00:09:00
Speaker 9: There was a lot of There was a sequence there where.

00:09:03
Speaker 8: Cavante Turpin fumbles the ball in the backfield, Zach Bond recovers. Like they made their plays defensively, but ultimately they were not able to withstand the onslaught the offensive onslought of nearly five hundred total yards from the Cowboys offense. That is their only method to success is by throwing the ball and trying to just move it through the air as much as possible.

00:09:22
Speaker 9: That's what disappoints me. Now, they did lose some.

00:09:24
Speaker 8: Guys in this game, and then Andrew mccooba goes down that that last drive as well and that's kind of a bummer and explains a little bit of it. But ultimately, if this defense is as good as we thought it was for the last couple of weeks, they make at least one stand in a key spot, and at minimum this game goes to overtime, which is not what happened to me.

00:09:40
Speaker 1: It's it's so much more on the offense and the game changed. We didn't know it at the time certainly, but it's late second quarter. They had like a third and two before halftime, and then they get a false start penalty I think on Cam Jurgens.

00:09:54
Speaker 5: It backs him up.

00:09:54
Speaker 1: They don't get the first down, and then Dak goes on a nice drive before halftime to at least cut the deficit. And then after that, you know, the Eagles offense goes three and out, one first down and then upon another three and out. Jakb Elliott misses a long field goal. At one point, you have the fumble. It's a little bit of everything, but ultimately, like against this Cowboys defense, which does look better, you know, you got to be able to sustain drives a little bit more because you can't expect their defense to hold up the whole time. It was a really magical I think Dave for the Cowboys and for Dak Prescott. Let's listen to his rushing touchdown which tied the score early in the fourth quarter.

00:10:36
Speaker 4: Prescott on second down back and runs up out of the pocket, runs to his left to the.

00:10:40
Speaker 5: Town to the five, touch.

00:10:42
Speaker 10: To his left, Summer Tift touch down, touchdown. Fuck have them touchdown? Press Scott, you're too old to shummer fault an extra point away from Tunning all the way back.

00:10:57
Speaker 1: That that is awesome, and it's it's a reminder. Yeah, one team was able to run the ball well today and that team was the Dallas Cowboys. Not that it was like incredible. Javonte goes eighty seven yards and Malik Davis actually had a couple of nice carries off the bench too, but Saquon Barkley ten for twenty two and yeah, on a day where Davante Smith goes deep and ag Brown goes over one hundred yards, like we said, they have had no running game and they fall to eight and three and give the Rams, who will be hearing from later in the show, a chance to take the one seed in the NFC.

00:11:32
Speaker 2: And a credit to consummate Baald Knower Jerry Jones, as the Wilson trade as well as the Williams trade seem to this Dallas Cowboys defense. You go back to the start of the season, they're inconsistency and just you know, they get the Marvin Overshawn back, which also helps there. But the run defense better, defense better overall, even though they did get Torch deep a couple of times and the pressure kept Jalen Hurts from stepping into throws. But Jalen Hurts far and away the leading rusher. He had ten more yards than Saquon and he averaged four yards of carry. He had the most explosive run of the Eagles offense on the day. And you know, Lane Johnson being out, it didn't get it definitely wasn't going to get better. But we saw how much worse it was going to be against this Ebra Flu's defense. And it's you know, over on the defensive side. You know Mkooba gets hurt, but not just that, because he's on Turpin coming out of the backfield on the Pickens play that got them in field goal range on that last drive, and he's running to get Turpin runs into Quinyon Mitchell, which is how George Pickens got that open in the first place. Just a rough situation in spots for the defense and then for the offense. Is the entire second half things went south?

00:12:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of amazing where I know Jalen Hurts can't hold the ball, but Dak and Jalen Hurts held the ball the same amount of time tonight. And you know which team had a higher pressure rate, Dallas Cowboys. The Doomsday defense is back. They're in the mix at five and one, five five and one.

00:13:07
Speaker 3: Sheok violently shaking his head at Doomsday defense.

00:13:10
Speaker 9: Not a fan, No, it'd be my Doomsday.

00:13:13
Speaker 1: I'm still you know, I'm still not forgiving Darry for the Michael Parsons trade. But damn it, if they don't put on a good show, would they be facing a team on Thanksgiving? Also, coming off of victory, let's go to the Chiefs in Arrowhead.

00:13:29
Speaker 3: So if the Colt should blitz, they do criss cross blitz. Mahomes goes over the middle to pass.

00:13:33
Speaker 11: This didn't catch made by Worthy and a catch and cold territory of thirty one yards. Worthy with the great catch burning Chavarius warned the ex chief and the Chiefs are in business at five point fifteen to go.

00:13:47
Speaker 3: In the overtime, tight to twenty.

00:13:49
Speaker 12: Oh.

00:13:50
Speaker 1: Mitch Holtis on k f n Z with the heady called noting, Yes, it was a Tarvarius word revenge game, but the chief got their revenge in the end, twenty three to twenty in overtime. A fascinating game. It felt like a playoff game the Eagles Cowboys was just weird fun. This felt like it could have been in January, and I shouldn't be surprised shook in the end that the Chiefs made the plays to win as if it was a January game. Down twenty to nine going into the fourth quarter, the Chiefs are driving. Patrick Mahomes needed to win this game if they were going to win this game, and they did.

00:14:37
Speaker 5: Obviously.

00:14:38
Speaker 1: It was gonna be the biggest fourth quarter comeback of his entire career. And when Kareem Hunt fumbled the ball in the red zone while they're going in to start the fourth quarter, I really thought, man, that's probably it. But you know what, Steve Spagnolo kept sending the house, Chris Jones kept getting pressures to get the Colts off the field, and ultimately the Chiefs offense which just couldn't buy a big play all day, just ground down this Colts defense and eventually wins it in overtime, a gut check win. And I don't think you can overstate how important it is to this entire Chief season.

00:15:18
Speaker 8: No, absolutely not, especially after Travis Kelsey was outspoken this week saying that people needed to stop being selfish. This was going to be a situation that was going to test your you know, intestinal fortitude as a team, Like, how are you going to overcome this adversity at home against one of the rising star teams of the AFC this year, one of the darlings in the Indianapolis Colts with one of the most complete offenses in the NFL.

00:15:38
Speaker 3: How do you do it?

00:15:39
Speaker 8: You outgain them nearly two to one, very close to two to one, You overcome early and mid early fourth quarter turnover as well, and you mount the comeback. Which is a prime example of why when we continue to consider this team week by week, no matter their record five and five now six and five, we cannot put them to bed because they have the culture and the experience is to overcome adversity in situations like that. Sometimes they need to remind themselves that they're capable of it. And I hate to put too much importance on a game, but this type of comeback and then winning it in overtime, it didn't feel inevitable. Watching from Afar might have felt inevitable just because of the Chiefs, but it can be the type of game that informs your team that yes, you can do this, and it injects belief and hope and optimism into the group, and it takes a little bit of that pressure off that you're no longer now you're slightly above five hundred, this is where the run starts.

00:16:28
Speaker 9: Let's build momentum from here.

00:16:29
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they would have been at five and six. And the rest of the AFC, I think, is watching this game and they're like, come on, Colts, can you just drive the stake through their heart? Because there were so many opportunities to do so, and sometimes it's these small little margins. And I'm going to go through a few different scenarios in this game, but one actually is late second quarter and at this point that the Chiefs and the Colts are trading touchdowns for field goals and it's fourteen to six, and it looked like I thought, you know, the played a really good game play calling. They were going to escape the first half with one extra possession. Those are like the small margins and probably go up even more than fourteen to six. They get stuffed on a second in one type of carry or second and two, something like that, and then on third down, Spagnolo kind of Jedi mind tricks Daniel Jones into changing the play at the line of scrimmage into a pass on third and one at midfield, and then Jones does pass it, but the Chiefs, they're so smart, they change their defense back and Jones doesn't have time to really adjust.

00:17:34
Speaker 5: And they get ready back people out out.

00:17:36
Speaker 1: Of the box and they stop them and Stike and then decides to punt, and it's around midfield, and that started a trend of Shane Stike and punting on fourth and short. He punted two different times in the second half on his own forty on fourth and three, and I think you know both the models and Patrick Clay, but I would probably defend that decision. I thought, with the way the game was going, I would have liked to see him go for I think less forgivable to me was punting on fourth and four from the Chiefs forty five yard line with five thirty six to go, you're on the other side of the fifty.

00:18:13
Speaker 5: You're up at that point a field goal.

00:18:15
Speaker 1: And that sequence, to me was so telling because whether you give credit to the decisions or more importantly the players, the Chiefs were just not allowing the Colts offense to do anything. And you get the ball at midfield, up three with about six minutes to go, you should just win that game, and they go three and out. And the Colts defense had been kind of bailing them out over and over again, just bending and not breaking, and eventually they did break.

00:18:39
Speaker 2: And it also the aggressiveness not just from Shane Steichen what you would have liked to see in those situations, but on Daniel Jones in the plays before those situations, because on that fourth and ultimately four, Doms throws short of the sticks to get his third and ten and they get a six yard completion. They're to Michael Pittman Junior. And it's a trend it went for most of the second half where the Colts would be in great situations, there will be incomplete passes on third down. Ultimately they go five of sixteen on third down in this game where they have the opportunities. But you see the Kansas City Chiefs lose to the consummate twenty twenty five rock fight team in the Denver Broncos. And when they get in a rock fight that's not against the Broncos shootout. I will favor the Colts and Dimes every single time. But as the score remained low in this game, it seemed more inevitable. And you mentioned the Kareem Hunt fumble, it could have been even worse. It could have been even more of a like overtimes not in question if Kareem Hunt doesn't put that ball on the turf, and the Chiefs just win this second half running away.

00:19:43
Speaker 1: No, And the game starts with Laatu Latu having his third interception of the year put him on the Pro Bowl ballot as a cornerback.

00:19:51
Speaker 5: Forget it.

00:19:52
Speaker 1: I mean he's got more than he's a cover edge a lot of like the top players in the league. And he picks off Mahomes, tips it in the air to himself and they score or a short you know, three yard touchdown drive right after that.

00:20:05
Speaker 3: So one of their two scores that they got two touchdowns right on a.

00:20:08
Speaker 5: Play to play basis.

00:20:09
Speaker 1: The Chiefs look like the better team thirty three first downs to ten ninety one offensive plays, and yet like the thing that stands out to me shook is the Colts had no pass rush whatsoever. They missed a Forest Buckner so well, And I actually thought it was a pretty uneven game from Patrick Mahomes. He goes for three hundred and fifty yards. He ultimately makes the winning play there in overtime. But I think Tony Romo is usually pretty forgiving, was noting how he's getting off his receivers awfully quickly, and there's some numbers out there where they are just not doing anything against man coverage this year or in this game, he's eating up zone and when they went to man today with Tarvarius Warden Sauce Gardner, like they were not getting any production and so they really had to work for it. Kareem Hunt had thirty carries in this game for one hundred and four yards. He's stuck with the run in part because Mahomes was uneven. And yet you know, they made it happen, Mahomes and Chris Jones, especially in the.

00:21:02
Speaker 8: End, and it's indicative of something that Mahomes has battled a few weeks now, and I think it really came to a head against Denver, a game that he just always felt like. It looked to me like he was always uncomfortable in that game and just didn't really know where to go, which is very uncommon for him. He's one of the best play extenders and somebody who makes something out of nothing in the NFL, and to have that kind of carry over into an uneven game today against a quality opponent doesn't surprise me at all. What does surprise me that the Chiefs were able to commit to the run and break a one hundred yards with a thirty carry performance from Kareem Hunt, because this is a Chiefs team that has not been able to run the ball consistently for most of this year. Safer when you get inside the five or the ten, you just handed it off the Hunt and he runs a couple of guys over and gets it to the end zone. So that's encouraging to me. But I also pivoting kind of back to the Colts here for a second. We give the Patriots a lot of stuff because Okay, well they're unproven, like who have they played?

00:21:53
Speaker 11: Right?

00:21:53
Speaker 9: We don't know about them?

00:21:54
Speaker 8: Why don't we say the same thing about the Colts because this is one of those examples where you look at them and you go, you need Daniel Jones to make a play, you need Jonathan Taylor to have a day. Sixteen Carriacs for fifty eight yards is not a day when compared against the rest of Jonathan Taylor's season. How much do you trust this Colts team because they're going to be in a situation like this in the playoffs. This is a test and I think if anybody was looking for a reason to be confident in them, they failed that test today.

00:22:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree.

00:22:22
Speaker 1: There were so many opportunities for them to win and to show that they were like a difference making offense, and they started out that way in terms of like the play calling, but ultimately that sequence I mentioned where they get the ball at midfield with a chance to put the ball away, like Jonathan Taylor doesn't even get the ball. And it's worth noting like Jonathan Taylor and their running game like wasn't that effective overall today and including in short yard situations. So it's like you're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. The offensive line had a bunch of penalties, like they had their chance to kind of stamp themselves and now they didn't do it.

00:22:56
Speaker 2: You saw a flash of it where there was a play I believe in the second where Quentin Nelson is pulling around.

00:23:02
Speaker 3: Gets a great block.

00:23:03
Speaker 2: They get a great seal on the edge as well, and Jonathan Taylor goes down the sideline and you almost needed the Colts. The Colts needed Jonathan Taylor to have that signature like huge home run hit a run where that's Those are the big plays on the offense at this point where the Chiefs were able to, you know, keep a lid on Alec Pierce and we want like, well, maybe Dimes gets involved in the run game. He had a first down scramble, but he's not moving like proham Dimes in the run game. I know it's it's November, and he just looked a little clunky moving around. I'm sure he's you know, the Chiefs defense was beating him up as well.

00:23:40
Speaker 1: I don't think he's one hundred percent because he's he was questionable on the injury report, and he was moving around and he's stuck in the pocket and made some really good throws to start this game out including the first touchdown that that he threw, which I thought was an incredible example of him staying in the pocket. But he did give the Chiefs a couple of chances to pick the ball off in this game too, they just didn't take advantage. And then look if the Chiefs do turn this season around, circle back to about three minutes left in this game. They had a fourth down and it felt like not season to go. But it was a big moment and Rashi Rice, if you're watching on YouTube, you'll see Rashie Rice makes a nice catch after Mahomes, you know, drops back to pass. The throws like a little bit high. And I've been getting on Racei Rice for not really making plays this year. He did have a good game today. After one misplay early, then goes eight for one forty one big time play by a big time play.

00:24:35
Speaker 2: You could almost say it was a one handed gram the way he had to reach up and stab that where it would have been a nasty Mahomes miss. If that goes to the turf would have said, hey, that would have been a tough catch for Rashee Rice instead, first down and now they can't they can't be killed at the zombie Chiefs.

00:24:49
Speaker 1: They are, and that sets up a beautiful Thanksgiving matchup. They're six and five. The Cowboys are five to five and one and both very intriguing. Meanwhile, this cold it's lost Somewhere Texans fans are at home cheering for the Chiefs.

00:25:05
Speaker 13: Uh.

00:25:05
Speaker 1: Somewhere, Jaguars fans will get to them. We're cheering for the Chiefs and could make it very interesting atop the AFC South. All right, let's go from that Thanksgiving game and set up the next one. Yes, the Detroit Lions are hoping for an easy Sunday and they did not get one.

00:25:22
Speaker 14: Here come the Lions now opening possession of overtime golf up under center turns.

00:25:28
Speaker 3: Gives to Gibbs. Gibbs had to.

00:25:29
Speaker 1: Take the.

00:25:34
Speaker 4: Get up?

00:25:37
Speaker 5: Who cut down?

00:25:38
Speaker 12: Detroit Lion?

00:25:40
Speaker 3: W off shand up stand up?

00:25:44
Speaker 14: Sexting hoards sremire gives to the House.

00:25:48
Speaker 3: No, the first play from shrimmaging over time.

00:25:52
Speaker 1: Why didn't you know?

00:25:54
Speaker 8: You know?

00:25:58
Speaker 5: He can't? Ah?

00:26:00
Speaker 1: Wow, my good Oh put that on the Call of the Year list. I don't know if we've been doing one this year. We should now Jamir Gibbs does it again. Two hundred and nineteen yards on the ground on only fifteen carries. He scores three touchdowns on the day. For you fantasy owners, he adds eleven catches. It's the Jamir Gibbs offense. He is the best pound for pound player in the NFL. Like Ali Connelly was saying on our Saturday show, check that out. The Lions survive all time Jamis Winston game in terms of entertainment value and win thirty four to twenty seven in overtime. And yes, they had to stop Jamis Winston because of the overtime rules. That touchdown did not end the game on a drive. While we're here, let's actually listen to another Dan Miller call because it was another big time player ending the game for the Lions.

00:27:00
Speaker 5: Fourth and five with the Lions get to stop here, this game's over. Winston's gonna work out of the gun.

00:27:06
Speaker 14: Four across the food for Detroit long count play clocket three.

00:27:12
Speaker 3: There's the snap to Winston.

00:27:14
Speaker 14: He's back on fourth down looking pressure.

00:27:16
Speaker 3: Cut the ball.

00:27:19
Speaker 14: Games this tall gamell games, Hey notch, it comes up with a sack.

00:27:24
Speaker 12: Get out of here, poys, go to the locker room.

00:27:27
Speaker 3: This game's over.

00:27:29
Speaker 1: Ah, that's another great call and uh, I do love a Lomas Brown just screaming in the background.

00:27:35
Speaker 5: I believe that was him shook.

00:27:38
Speaker 15: Uh.

00:27:39
Speaker 5: Look, they needed this.

00:27:40
Speaker 1: You cannot slip up to the Giants the way things are crowded in that division.

00:27:44
Speaker 5: What did you think about how hard it was for the Lions to win this game?

00:27:49
Speaker 8: I think that the visceral nature of those two calls explains it all for the Lions today, because you're absolutely right, this is a game that they cannot afford to slip up.

00:27:58
Speaker 9: They couldn't let this one get away.

00:27:59
Speaker 8: They couldn't affor falling to six and five, and they shouldn't because it's the Giants, a team that hasn't won in ages, a team that's playing Jameis Winston at quarterback. You should be able to make him make a mistake or two because that's what he's known to do. Instead, Jamis has one of his best days that anybody's gonna remember. He catches a touchdown pass and it wasn't just catching in the end zone. It's a catch and run. The Lions in the fourth quarter had to find themselves just wondering how did we get here? And it took a great effort for them just to get into field goal range to send this to overtime. It was a tough game for them through all four quarters despite Jamir Gibbs having such a great game, and felt like the rest of the offense really couldn't figure it out. Defense couldn't stop Jamis, who made a bunch of big plays until Jamiir rips that one off in overtime.

00:28:38
Speaker 9: A sixty nine yard run.

00:28:40
Speaker 8: Two touchdown runs accounted for one hundred and eighteen yards of his two hundred and nineteen total yards. He was the guy for this team and that's why once he got in the end zone, that was the first time Lions fans could think, oh my god, we may actually avoid disaster right now.

00:28:53
Speaker 9: And it's all because of the guy in the backfield with Gibbs in the back of his jersey.

00:28:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:28:57
Speaker 1: They were down twenty seven seventeen after Winston passed the gunner Olshefski he or passed from gunner Olshefski and then immediately Gibbs response, so they're down ten points in the fourth quarter, Gibbs responds with a forty nine yard touchdown run that is epic, like all time great Barry Sanders Hall of Fame type stuff, just putting the team on his back.

00:29:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's finishing those runs.

00:29:23
Speaker 2: There was the He also almost had another long touchdown run in the second half where the Giants are able to get him out of pounds inside the five, and all that did was delay the Jumior Gibbs touchdown reception where he catches the ball and extends to get across the pilot. Just a great game from Gibbs where you wonder. You look at the numbers and Jamior Gibbs is averaging fourteen yards to carry and it's like, how how is this possible that the game goes to overtime when your best player on offense is averaging fourteen yards to carry. That's because they couldn't stop Jamis in the first half. He had two hundred passing yards and two touchdowns in the first half, like Wandell rob and was almost a fantasy wide receiver one purely off of what he did in the first half. It was so much offensive success where it's like, why have we been keeping the Jamis? And Mike Kafka wrapped up Also, Yeah, every Giants game could have potentially.

00:30:15
Speaker 3: Been like this, but instead we got the twenty twenty five.

00:30:17
Speaker 1: Oh, it goes back to what I've been thinking ever since Dark came in and Winston. It's like Dable in this entire organization deserves everything they got for starting Russell Wilson in the first place. There was a lot of evidence that Jameis Winston was a much better quarterback entering twenty twenty five than Russell Wilson. And in Wandale, Yeah, had one thirty five before halfter, What did he You didn't like my Russell Wilson Bury all there?

00:30:43
Speaker 8: No.

00:30:43
Speaker 2: I was reminded that there was another team that was up three in the fourth quarter late with a gold to goest situation and eschewed the field goal, ultimately leading to the loss.

00:30:53
Speaker 3: And that was a decision by Mike Kafka.

00:30:55
Speaker 2: They were up twenty seven to twenty four, they had a fourth down end goal, and they had an incomplete pass, so Detroit didn't have to use use their timeout. Molik Neighbors is watching from home and sends out this, Sometimes I think they'd be making us lose on purpose, because there's no way you throw the ball instead of running it to make them burn two timeouts. Then you don't kick the field goal. They have to go down and score football common sense? Am I missing something? That's what Melik Neighbors said during the game.

00:31:23
Speaker 5: I love that he posted that, and I appreciate it.

00:31:28
Speaker 1: You got the tweet you sureing it while READI itt no, but you left out the four slammers that he put behind football common sons exclamation point four times?

00:31:38
Speaker 5: Am I missing something? And you're right.

00:31:41
Speaker 1: That drive for the Giants ended with what under three minutes to go in the game, and it ends up being a Jake Baits. It took the Lions that long Jake Baits fifty nine yard field goal, or else they would have lost that game.

00:31:58
Speaker 5: And yeah, that was an unconventional decision.

00:32:02
Speaker 1: I do think the kickoff rule, right or wrong, is playing a pretty big role in the coach's decisions to do this, because they're thinking, Okay, if we hit the field goal, we're up six, but the kickoff is probably coming.

00:32:16
Speaker 5: Out to the thirty to thirty five.

00:32:18
Speaker 1: That's like thirty yards of field position, whereas in the past that would have been maybe twenty.

00:32:23
Speaker 8: You don't like it, sh I push back against that because you still have to force that team to go down and get a touchdown. And what's the role the worst place to be is up six in a game because you could still lose and you know they have to go get a touchdown. That's fine because in this game the Lions were struggling to do anything outside of Gibbs ripping one off. I would trust my defense in that scenario and kick the three go up by six, so you don't run the risk of Jake Baits hitting the game tire, which, by the way, the one he may decided to overtime just barely snuck in there. Imagine if you're up six and they had to fight just to get into position there. So I disagree with that, but I do I agree with what you're saying overall because field position I think plays a big part in a lot of these decisions, but in this one specifically, you kick the field goal, you take points every time.

00:33:00
Speaker 9: But that's not with the benefit of hindsight.

00:33:02
Speaker 3: But it's also not just the fourth down decision on the incomplete pass.

00:33:06
Speaker 2: There was the second down decision to throw the ball at all that stopped the clock after the Lions had called a time out.

00:33:13
Speaker 3: I think that's the one that bothers Malik Neighbors and maybe.

00:33:16
Speaker 1: Me the way the wide open throw that Jameis Winston missed. I mean, I can't kill that. That just he missed the throw, which is a very unfortunately kind of like Jamisy ending because he was incredible in this game. Can we can we at least listen to the receiving touchdown? This is one of the plays of the year.

00:33:38
Speaker 16: First in Canada, Detroit thirty three pistol formation. Singletary's the back behind Winston. Winston pumps his right leg, takes the snap play faith. They run an end around for Rowshwsky. Who's gonna throw it?

00:33:49
Speaker 3: He does throw it down the up sideline for whisks.

00:33:51
Speaker 5: Oh he's as mayor James for the touchdown.

00:33:57
Speaker 3: Holy cow, Oh do you.

00:34:00
Speaker 10: Want to touch step at people Jameis Winston.

00:34:05
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's Bob Popa, Oh my gosh, a w fan and Carl Banks. The transition to the celebration in front of the camera. Put that on the Jamis Winston Hall of Fame reel.

00:34:18
Speaker 5: That's beautiful.

00:34:19
Speaker 2: The famous dual sport athlete at Florida State, who at quarterback is one of the more awkward movers in NFL history, somehow gets past the line of scrimmage, shook and turns into an exciting athlete where Derek Barnes has the worst rep I've ever seen him have.

00:34:35
Speaker 3: Jamus not only adjusted.

00:34:36
Speaker 2: To the football but stiff arms Barnes, steps out of it and goes into the end zone.

00:34:41
Speaker 3: Ay.

00:34:41
Speaker 8: I saw some shades of Plaxco Burst there on that catch. I mean, just boxing out the defender and breaking the tackle adjusting to it in mid air. When el Shewsky stepped up by the way because he had to step up into a pocket, that just became a pocket in the middle of the play. I thought, there's no way he's throwing at the Jamis downfield. And then he lets it go and I'm like, oh my god, Jamis is there. And as soon as he boxed him out, that's when I was like, oh, this is amazing. The broken tackle was the cherry on top. I had the celebration. You're right, Paul fam reel right. And that was the second trick play that worked for them. They had a throwback pass to Jamis earlier that he had for a touchdown to Wandale Robinson to open the scoring.

00:35:14
Speaker 9: Wild Day.

00:35:15
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was a thirty nine yarder from Jamis.

00:35:18
Speaker 1: There was a third and ten from his own end zone where he throws it totally under fire a ball that I thought might have scraped the top of the dome and it goes to Isaiah Hodgens complete down the field. Just amazing timing, Hut spot everything and talent out of Jamis and Hodgens there and then he has a third and seventeen later in that drive. So I disagree with you both after hitting those plays. You know, Jamis didn't execute on the play on the goal line, but you have a guy open on the goal line, you could go win the game right there. And Nick use the phrase trust your defense with the two twenty twenty five Giants.

00:35:58
Speaker 5: Defense, I'm never trusting defense. They just lost. They just lost me.

00:36:02
Speaker 8: They can get after Jared Goff. You know Brian Burns a little on that last drive. Brian Burns did go take a breather, So maybe maybe you're right.

00:36:09
Speaker 5: And yeah, it's crazy.

00:36:11
Speaker 1: The Gibbs day as great, like they have really leaned into playing him more forty eight snaps to twenty two for Montgomery. And I know he hit those two big plays and that's like most of his yard, but he had a seventy five percent success or seventy seven percent success rate on his fronts today, so it was not even just the long ones. Put that man in whatever conversation you want, offensive player of the year, I guess, and I'm glad because if if the Lions had lost on that play to Jamis Wins, I think you just have to eliminate them from playoff contention.

00:36:42
Speaker 5: I just think your season's over. Wow, you just have to go home. So it's a good thing.

00:36:45
Speaker 3: Like a rule, it's just a new rule.

00:36:47
Speaker 5: They're seven.

00:36:50
Speaker 1: And man, this NFC North, like all the teams are a little bit flawed and really have no idea. Who's going to go out on top. Let's talk about another one. After this break, you will go to lambeau Field.

00:37:12
Speaker 17: It is second down and goal to go inside the one yard line. Love under center, Wilson alone back. They've got a wing set up in the right side, and Love takes hand off up the middle.

00:37:23
Speaker 11: It's Wilson to the endside, touch down, and the Packers cash in and take US sixteen.

00:37:31
Speaker 5: To six lead.

00:37:32
Speaker 1: Emmanuel Wilson, Congratulations to that young man. Congratulations to the people who picked him up in fantasy and just played him right away. Congratulations to the Green Bay Packers who are seven three and one. They destroy the Minnesota Vikings twenty three to six in a game where it felt like the Vikings were not getting into double digits. Shook if you gave them another sixty minutes of play.

00:38:02
Speaker 9: Yeah, you're asolutely right.

00:38:03
Speaker 8: In fact, it was so apparent that they weren't getting into double digits that Matt Lafleur, perhaps uncharacteristically just leaned on the run in the second half, played as conservatively as possible, just run heavy, not taking any chances, settling for field goals, just slowly building that lead because he watched his defense dominate JJ McCarthy and the whole Vikings offense, especially in the second half. By the end of this game, the Vikings they had ten total net yards in the second half ten. At one point in the fourth quarter, they were at negative eleven. They were being outgained something like one forty to negative eleven. Complete domination started with the Packers defense, and the offense was able to just ride the ground game. Didn't need Jordan Love to be a hero, and they were able to ride the ground game without Josh Jacobs because of Emmanuel Wilson. Great day for him with a career high one hundred and seven and two touchdowns and a feel good win for the Packers who have to really like what they're seeing from their defense.

00:38:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, the defense has taken over against some lackluster offensive competition. We'll get to the Jj McCarthy of it all, But what did you see out of the defense in terms of averaging or only allowing two point two yards per pass play on the vikings and then picking them off a couple times late.

00:39:11
Speaker 8: I saw a very consistently collapsed pocket and some of it had to do with JJ holding onto the ball for an extra beat, which we know that's typical of him so far in his pro career and dating back to when he was at Michigan as well.

00:39:22
Speaker 9: But it was a pass rush that came at you from every angle. It wasn't just Micah Parsons. It was Rashan Gary, it was Devonte Wyatt.

00:39:28
Speaker 8: They were game wreckers coming from all different directions, and especially after you know there's a bit of a shuffle on the offensive line, like it just gets worse and worse for McCarthy and the entire offense.

00:39:38
Speaker 9: But they just had no hope.

00:39:39
Speaker 8: They were backed up inside their five at one point and McCarthy twice had to run forward just to avoid getting sacked for a safety. It was complete dominance and it wasn't just one guy. Parsons obviously does a big part of it, but this is a complete defensive unit just imposing their will in Minnesota.

00:39:55
Speaker 1: Before before I moved to the JJ Videll actually just how did Jordan Love look like health wise? Is I did not have eyes on this too much, and it just felt like maybe that was part of the decision making with all the running too.

00:40:06
Speaker 8: That was and there was actually a point in the broadcasts where I think it was Greg Olsen on the call who was consistently noting that he was handing it off with the wrong hand oftentimes, which indicates that he might be dealing with something. And it was an unremarkable game from him by design, like he finishes fourteen to twenty one four one thirty nine, but if you had to recap that game, he doesn't play much of a part in it. And I think a lot of it was just built around protecting and avoiding risk, and because their defense was so good, they were able to do that. So it's something that we have to, I think, continue to monitor especially in what has been a very up and down season for Jordan Love overall. But on a daylight today, it didn't really matter much, which is good for them.

00:40:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're heading into just that monster Thanksgiving game against the Lions. This is one of the best Thanksgiving slates we've had, just because the games are so meaningful.

00:40:51
Speaker 5: It's now that time, unfortunately, that.

00:40:53
Speaker 1: We do have to talk about JJ McCarthy, which at this point it doesn't feel like fun. First, let's actually let Wayne Lairvi from w R and W talk a little bit about JJ McCarthy at least his last pick of the day.

00:41:06
Speaker 17: Swap to the left side, Jefferson, why to the left balentime that way as well. Safeties are high coverage. Just saw here's the snap. McCarthy looks Fire's left side and the.

00:41:17
Speaker 5: Overthrow better sceptin.

00:41:20
Speaker 17: Evan Williams william his second game in a row with an interception, and that will do it. Evan Williams delivers his second consecutive dagger.

00:41:35
Speaker 5: Love a second consecutive dagger.

00:41:38
Speaker 1: We we thought about listening to Paul Allen on Minnesota, you know, just for the kind of disappointment of it all, but it just seemed mean and like he might be over at that point of the game there, four and seven, like he didn't even really have the juice to be that sad.

00:41:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, we heard Paul on the downside last week.

00:41:57
Speaker 2: We had a chance to listen to it before the show, and it's it's not a person who expected a different outcome at this point, the offense struggling JJ McCarthy with a big overstride on that overthrow to Jalen Naylor, who you wanted that ball a little bit on the inside. But yeah, the emotions come through from Paul, one of the best in the game. But he's honest. He's honest in the way he feels about it. It's not a good feeling in Minnesota or I.

00:42:23
Speaker 1: Don't know if I've ever seen this, Like JJ had a negative point sixty five EPA per play today and before those last two interceptions it was actually negative point four something, So it wasn't even just the turnovers. That means every time JJ McCarthy is dropping back to pass like they're giving up two thirds of a point, it's just a crazy stat What like, what did it look like when you're trying to isolate his play shook versus just the Packers defense playing well.

00:42:51
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, that's how in effective they are as a passing offenseve Jj quarterback. It's funny because I brought up the Matt Laflord leaning on the run in the second half. Kevin O'Connell tried to do that in the first half, like more than probably he's done the entire season, and it kept them competitive, but it also felt intentional, as if to not throw his quarterback to the Wolves. But if this is your starter and you want to contend with him, eventually you're going to have to test him. In the second half, they had to test him because they were the deficit was increasing incrementally, and ultimately he failed that test. And what you see from him is inconsistent feet, which O'Connell has talked about trying to marry the eyes and the feet, and you see somebody who is not entirely confident in the decisions that he makes, whether it's with timing, hesitating for half a beat or a full beat, whether he the pockets collapsing on him. He doesn't sense the rush, which has been an issue. He gets his arm hit on his first pick, which sends it flying right into the hands of a defender for an interception, or it's just the.

00:43:44
Speaker 9: Fact that he doesn't seem like he's up to speed with the game.

00:43:47
Speaker 8: And then when he sails that pass, that's one of the few times that he throws it in rhythm with obviously a very big stride. Footwork again not working very well, but he sails it to the point where you get the leap from Jalen Neelers if he's like, I have no shot of getting that ball.

00:43:58
Speaker 9: This is just what we're dealing with right now.

00:44:00
Speaker 8: It's got to be so frustrating to be a Vikings receiver right now knowing that the guy who's you know, directing your offense can can douce makes some magic, but the quarterback just can't make it happen.

00:44:10
Speaker 1: Very difficult decision for Kevin O'Connell. I think whether to keep playing him because he's at a like Zach Wilson, early Zach Wilson level right now where it just feels like maybe you owe it to the team to give Brosma a chance for a couple of weeks and just see it if that's any better. Let's listen to Koc after the game.

00:44:30
Speaker 13: I still believe you know, he's he's absolutely under control. From a play call standpoint. There's little things, you know that happen, like a quarterback getting tripped up, you know, on a play pass where you might have a look at something, or you know, just maybe the dialogue in the huddle making sure all eleven are on the same pittures. Little things that come up here and there that just continue to limit your chances of having ultimate success enough against the good defense to go put points on the board. But it is one of those things where I do believe wholeheartedly that you know, it takes a driver two of confidence building to truly cement kind of what we want to be as an offense.

00:45:09
Speaker 1: So if their season was not over before this week, it is now. And unfortunately they had some major injuries in this game too. Donovan Jackson, their first round guard, goes out late. Christian Daris saw their left tackle was hurt during the game, as you kind of heart alluded to in the call, and Josh Mattelis, their great safety, was also hurt. So when it rains, it pours for the Vikings. But yeah, the Packers set up a really big one On Thanksgiving. We'll be talking about that on Tuesday will be our Thanksgiving preview. Let's wrap up the NFC North here with the team that was leading the division heading into Sunday.

00:45:44
Speaker 5: Fourth one seconds snap back Rudolph pro wep.

00:45:48
Speaker 12: A complete it was better Gov. Bears are gonna win this one. Betet down again. The Bears got their hands up on fourth don at six and we got a Oh, Jeff Joniak, He's on this show every freaking week. Thirty one twenty eight. Bears survive another one, this time over the Pittsburgh Steelers.

00:46:16
Speaker 5: So that's a win?

00:46:17
Speaker 1: What by three points today, two points last week, four points a few weeks back before that, and five points against the Bengals are a team that finds a way to get it done.

00:46:31
Speaker 5: How did they get it done today?

00:46:32
Speaker 3: Patrick Well?

00:46:33
Speaker 2: I will call it because I thought of a name for Dennis Allen's defense. They are the bend and break their hearts defense from the Chicago Bears. Where it works once again. The Steelers a mass three hundred and forty five net yards. They outgained the Bears. They converted eight to fourteen first downs. They got big chunk plays like Kenneth Gainwell on a fake tush push where all the fake tousch pushes are way more successful than the actual touch pushes going around in the league. Kenneth Kennedy had a fifty two yard or somehow didn't get in, but they don't let him score. They let Jaylen Warren score, by the way, so Kenny g leads the Steelers in rushing. But you get another great Nashan Wright interception where he almost does the same thing he did last week, where it's a great one hand essentially interception to rob dk Metcalf of a completion on the sideline. And then late you get Montes Sweat getting the Bears an extra possession with a strip sack. He has six and a half sacks over his last six games. And yeah, they give up yards, but this team is going to get the ball from You get an extra possession or two in this instance, and get enough to hold on and get a win. In the fourth quarter against a Steelers team with Mason Rudolph that did move the ball. They lost dk Metcalf for a stretch in this game. He would eventually come back. Joey Porter Junior also left this game, which had an impact on the defense. But you get three touchdowns from Caleb nice work with the ball.

00:47:52
Speaker 1: He did.

00:47:54
Speaker 3: End up falling victim to t J.

00:47:56
Speaker 2: Watt had another strip sack herbig jumped on top of it for a touchdown. One hundred and fifteen career sacks for TJ Watt. He passed JJ Watt. Yeah, famously Justin James Watt, who played for the Houston Texans. So, Greg, I'm going to ask you, how many sacks does TJ need to, in your mind be a better player than JJ Watt.

00:48:18
Speaker 5: I don't think there's a number.

00:48:19
Speaker 3: Oh.

00:48:20
Speaker 1: I think what TJ would have to do is be the one of the best players ever for like a couple of seasons in a row. And I and it's crazy to say that, because you're making me. You're the one that says, oh, you don't like to compare him.

00:48:34
Speaker 3: I know, but their brothers in the stat was there.

00:48:36
Speaker 1: As I say, TJ Watt is a inner circle, first ballot Hall of Famer yep. And yet I don't think there's anything he could do because I think JJ Watt is the best defensive player since I started covering football, which is like twenty something years now, which is crazy twenty years.

00:48:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think he's the best. So I don't think. I don't think. I don't think TJ could get it number five.

00:48:59
Speaker 1: By the way, on our top twenty five players of the last twenty five, we know what TJ was on that list.

00:49:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, look credit to.

00:49:04
Speaker 3: Him, just down because there's nothing he can do.

00:49:06
Speaker 5: He was like twenty one.

00:49:07
Speaker 3: He ketch big brother.

00:49:08
Speaker 5: He can climb that list, but we'll get into the top five would be tough.

00:49:11
Speaker 2: There was nothing he could do on one of the biggest defensive possessions because the Steelers again that chances in the second half, there was a third down where the Steelers secondary just releases DJ Moore to the grass. They were trying to pass DJ Moore on Essentially there was no defender there and so Caleb Williams hits him for his third touchdown of the day. There's a chance though, with Mason Rudolph in a comeback attempt. He hit Pat Friarmouth for six and then got the ball back with a minute and twenty nine.

00:49:38
Speaker 3: Seconds to go.

00:49:39
Speaker 2: But there was Jakwan Brisker on fourth down, the call that you heard from Jony k as they fade to black and the Bears get another big.

00:49:45
Speaker 1: Hell, let's listen to another call from Jonyack it could that play because to me, it was typical of what we've seen a little too often from the Steelers defense this year.

00:49:53
Speaker 6: Third got a sixth shotgunch staff caleob Toasch thetball playing up, but got a Steamni Scott j More Touchcot Bears Baby bearsipticably.

00:50:06
Speaker 5: I mean, there's nowhere nobody on the screen.

00:50:09
Speaker 1: It just you just see that more often, and in a game where the Steelers had a higher success rate passing the ball, a higher success rate running the ball, you just see these mistakes sometimes from the Steelers defense and they're just not as complete as you want them to be. Ultimately, I guess we get Aaron Rodgers back next week. Mike Tomlins said after the game, I thought it might look a little different with Mason Rudolph, and it ultimately didn't.

00:50:37
Speaker 5: Really. We did not have a wide receiver top thirty six yards in this game.

00:50:40
Speaker 9: Shook no, and that's not surprising.

00:50:42
Speaker 8: What infuriates me with the Steelers team is you just never get the complimentary football. You get one week where the defense is really good, like last week against Cincinnati, you get this week where the offense isn't great, but statistically, they put up, you know, three hundred and forty five yards. They're in the game, it's thirty one twenty eight to the nyl and the defense drops the ball. And that is why I think that they perfectly present their record at six and five.

00:51:01
Speaker 3: Now.

00:51:02
Speaker 8: They are a near five hundred team with the potential to put together a great performance against a good team and challenge them, but ultimately cannot be trusted to produce in big spots against red hot teams like the Bears, especially on the road, which is a bummer.

00:51:16
Speaker 9: And I don't think Aaron Rodgers makes that any better for them.

00:51:18
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Yeah, they Caleb Williams play was probably the worst sack that he's took this year in terms of not understanding he needed to get rid of the ball there and spinning back. But a Bears fan hit me up after that one was like, the difference is now the Bears have a Caleb Williams a quarterback and he's playing the way where immediately he responds with like a touchdown drive after that. So kudos to the Bears staying atop this division, and kudos to Ben Johnson proven all those people wrong who said that he just didn't have.

00:51:49
Speaker 5: It as like a leader.

00:51:50
Speaker 1: Is he a leader of men? Or is he some sort of egghead? I mean he's he might be the biggest star in the locker room this year.

00:51:56
Speaker 18: Oh yeah, I tell you what.

00:52:01
Speaker 1: I tell you what.

00:52:02
Speaker 3: It takes a village.

00:52:04
Speaker 18: It takes a village. And I'm talking about players, I'm talking about coaches, I'm talking about training staff, I'm talking about everybody in this building. And here we are that half the season and our depth is being tested. All right, how we're gonna win this game? We got no linebacker?

00:52:30
Speaker 3: You guys so bad at I I love that they have fun of Chicago.

00:52:34
Speaker 5: They they're doing that you make a pint.

00:52:38
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go, uh huh, doing straight up migos ad libs for Ben Johnson. That's how you know you got it, man, Go Bears. Eight and three, Mama, let's just go. Let's go to Let's go to Tennessee, Seattle. Oh my gosh, this stact.

00:53:00
Speaker 3: Let's not go.

00:53:00
Speaker 1: Let's just point out the fact that the Steelers fell to six and five today, and after having such a big lead in the AFC North, there was a risk, yes, that they gave up that division lead before Thanksgiving.

00:53:13
Speaker 5: The Ravels will go for it on fourth end goal.

00:53:17
Speaker 15: DeAndre Hopkins splits out wide to the right, Z eight flowers to the left, Derrick Henry alone to the backfield. Lamar unders center on fourth end goal from the Jets too. The gives to Henry right side.

00:53:28
Speaker 5: He's got a holy g in touch then.

00:53:31
Speaker 1: Driven easy pasy Derrick Henry and that run. But it was not in easy games for Derrick Henry and this Ravens team trail that halftime, struggled with an opponent that they would seem to overmatch on paper again, but end up winning by a couple scores. Again, these games have been consistent, Patrick, twenty three to ten.

00:53:58
Speaker 5: Does that make you feel any better?

00:54:01
Speaker 2: No, it did not make me feel better because the concerns over the past few weeks of eight moving around more slowly and sluggish and looking like he's uncomfortable in the pocket. Today was the biggest example of that, in a game where Torod Taylor had more passing yards, more completions, and more touchdowns than Lamar, who was coming off a streak of thirty consecutive games with a touchdown pass and now there's no touchdowns in his last two games.

00:54:28
Speaker 3: You have to go back to twenty nineteen for that.

00:54:31
Speaker 2: And other than literally the Derrick Henry touchdown run which pat Riccard comes around and blows up that side of the field. They could blocking on that play and Henry is able to walk in. Everything was a slog. It was difficult. Kyle Hamilton left the game multiple times, comes back in, which is something that you know, you grow accustomed to Kyle Hamilton doing.

00:54:50
Speaker 5: At this point, did he finish the game.

00:54:52
Speaker 2: He didn't finish the He went into the locker room stayed in after the game. Coach Tarball said nothing major concerning at this point for Kyle Hamilton, which is good news because the defense once again held the opponent under twenty points and the offense just scratched out enough in this sense, but the way things are currently constructed and they're currently playing on offense where receivers aren't necessarily getting a ton of separation, the time is a little You know, Lamar had a lot of time to throw, which he typically does because he extends plays, but his ability to be explosive back there is a big part of holding the ball and clearly not one hundred percent, and the whole offense in general is not at one hundred.

00:55:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were held under two hundred and fifty yards against a Jets team. It's almost doing it perfectly in terms of they're competing every week. But there are probably some fans that wouldn't mind getting a higher draftic. They're not embarrassing themselves. They've definitely improved on defense, especially they hold the Ravens under two hundred and fifty yards. Now, the Ravens have held six straight opponents under twenty points, and one of them was the Rams. The rest of them, you know, and one of them was the Bears, who is a very good offense. They have found different formulas to win. You're an AFC North expert, Shook, having lived in Ohio. How are you feeling about the fact that everyone was right? Yeah, the Ravens are going to catch the Steelers. They've already caught them. I mean, it's a tie, but they're winning the tiebreaker right now. How do you feel about where this Ravens team is at though? With these wins like Vikings, this Browns game, the Jets game, even the Dolphins game, they all feel pretty similar.

00:56:32
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean you could sound cliche and just say a win's a win right, and that's really what matters most of them at this point. I would like to think that they're a team that's going to peak at the right time, and they're just kind of building that way. It's just that it's it's so small and increments that there's not really like a case building that that's actually going to come to fruition. And it starts with Lamar. But the side that you have to be really confident in is this defense. For what you just said, holding a bunch of teams under twenty points. Ever since they acquired a Loie Gilman, they've been able to go to this three s ifety look that's allowed them to look, you know, present so many different defensive looks for opposing quarterbacks that they're just super effective in coverage. They can do a number of different things with a personnel grouping that is unorthodox by today's standard, even in the in the world that we live in where everybody's prettymuch running nikel defense as their base defense. And I think that that is what's going to carry them through this period. And you hope that eventually Lamar gets healthy enough or comfortable enough that their offense opens back up, because it just hasn't. And I think that when they played the Browns last week that did not do them a favor because they couldn't get in any rhythm in that game because that Brown's defense was all over them. And so it's not surprising to see them only put up twenty three points and struggle in a game like this. It was the perfect time for the Jets to turn to Tyrod as opposed to justin Fields to give them a chance to be competitive, which I think, you know, played a part in this game. But ultimately, when I look at the Ravens, I'm still very confident that they're going to win the division. They're going to be in the playoffs, and you hope that they peak at the right time so you can take them seriously as a team that can win in the playoffs.

00:57:54
Speaker 5: I just, you know, I want to look at it closer.

00:57:56
Speaker 1: But on a day where the Jets got like no pass rush, their pressure rate is really low, and the Ravens offense has like a very low success rate against the Jets, little surprising thirty five percent compared to fifty percent for the Jets. But they are in first place and they will be playing on Thanksgiving night, against the Bengals, and yes, they'll have to try to win that game to stay atop the NFC or the AFC North. Let's now flip over to the NFC and see if the Seahawks could take care of business down in Tennessee.

00:58:31
Speaker 3: Third down and six slot to the New York side.

00:58:34
Speaker 17: Smith and Jigman now comes over from left to life four man rush.

00:58:38
Speaker 6: Donald has time, gonna let it fly, got a man jsid makes the Cats, takes the tackle.

00:58:43
Speaker 5: He's gonna back into the end zone for a touchdown.

00:58:47
Speaker 11: Shayhawks sixty three yards single coverage.

00:58:54
Speaker 5: You guys know better than that Tennessee, do they?

00:59:00
Speaker 13: Yeah?

00:59:00
Speaker 1: It was actually one of two different times on this day where they got Jackson Smith and Jigba singled up on a safety and he took it to the house.

00:59:10
Speaker 5: Well, not each time.

00:59:11
Speaker 1: Eight for one, sixty seven and two touchdowns overall. Not only did he have that that long one, he also had a fifty six yarder in the game that did not go for a score. Jackson Smith and Jigba has set the all time franchise record for yards by a Seahawks receiver in a season in Week twelve. In Week twelve, you know how you always have to be like, well, you know the season's line, like there was never a season that was shorter than twelve games. It's ridiculous. He is really incredible, and I'll just say it here. Patrick score this one for the Jackson Smith and JIGBA MVP campaign.

00:59:52
Speaker 2: I think at a certain point, after after the four i NT game, perhaps we don't we don't give these points to Sam Donald now or if the Seahawks win, those points generally are going to JSN.

01:00:06
Speaker 1: And Donald had an uneven game. I know the stats look great in those I mean, every one of his deep throws to JSN is like better than the last. It was really awesome, like that particular throw, but the other deep one was great too. But he had a couple turnover where he plays in this game. He was lucky not to get picked off a couple different times it didn't happen, and so they got away with it. And overall, thirty to twenty four is the final score, and it was not as close as that would indicate. Because Chamary DK, who might be making All Pro as a return man as a rookie, which is pretty great for the Titans, return another punt return. So that's one of the Titans touchdowns. And then they had a never ending drive at the end.

01:00:52
Speaker 5: Of the game.

01:00:53
Speaker 3: They ended their chance to win with a touchdown drive.

01:00:55
Speaker 1: They they did they It really did feel like they were kind of just trying to score to make themselves feel better. But it took forever for them to score at the end of the game and essentially ended the game. And if you watch Mike McCoy the interim head coaches press conference after it, you would thought they won the game. They were so happy, And I think that was because cam Ward played awesome in this game. It was his best game of the season. It was one of the best games any quarterback has had against the Seahawks. And if nothing else, he also led the team in rushing. That was one reason why they were not competitive in this game is they had Their success rate was through the floor in terms of Tony Pollard and Tyzeri spears.

01:01:31
Speaker 5: But cam Ward looked great.

01:01:32
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we can really drive much else from Titans games for the rest of the year.

01:01:36
Speaker 8: No, And I think that's got to be the focus from here on out is how much progress does cam Ward make him and Shamiri dk and, like I a manner like the future of the team kind of worry about the running game. I mean, I have a lot of respect for Tony Pollard, but I also know that the offensive line, no matter how much they've invested in it, is just not a good group and it's not good for run blocking. So I don't hold that against Tony Pollard necessarily, But it's got to be all about cam Ward because that is obviously your franchise quarterback. You spent the number one pick on him, and you're also going to have a really high pick again, and you don't have to spend it on quarterback as long as you keep him on that path. So it's really encouraging to see him have, you know, the best game of his season because you know, like when I do QB index, he's always in that lower third.

01:02:16
Speaker 9: But I kind of want to nudge him up, and he has like a bad game.

01:02:19
Speaker 8: It's just that the Titans are so bad that he can only do so much, and so to see him have a good game like this, it gives me a lot of, you know, reason to bump him up, because I think he's been fairly steady in most of his games this season.

01:02:31
Speaker 1: I was locked into this one, and I was noting at halftime and even going into the third quarter. They had three points at that point, and then he missed the throw on a screen to Spears, and I was like, that's the first even minor mistake Kim Word has made in this game. He was playing about a perfect game, and yet they had three points on the board, which.

01:02:53
Speaker 5: I think exactly what the Titans are right it really, but he.

01:02:58
Speaker 1: Hits a deep shot, he has another deep shot that hits his receiver in the hands. He has a play a dime over the middle to James Proche. They started Van Jefferson, Chamiaradka and James Proche at wide receiver. The leading receiver is Gunner Helm on this day, and the coaches have been telling Ward to run more, and I think it was a coaching point in this game because there were many key important moments where he did run the ball and get first downs with his legs. And then yeah, if you're watching this game on YouTube, you'll see this isn't a throw of the Year candidate, because if we had cam Ward throwing the ball against his body, across his body while going out of bounds like another one, I think we have seven of them this year, but there was a crazy third and nine that was just awesome to Xavier Ristreppo, who Titans, you know, fans have been calling for all season and they got him. He had a lot more conventional throws in this game, but it was nice to see the cam Ward specialist.

01:03:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were calling for him because it's you know, we've it's an eligible because we do have cam Ward fadeaway out of bounds shots, but none to Xavier or Strepplo because that's his first career catch on that great ball from cam Ward where it was all day. He was pressured on forty two percent of his dropbacks. In those dropbacks, he was nine or fourteen four one hundred yards with a plus eleven completion percentage over expected against a defense that has dogged everybody, including you know, the Rams got the win.

01:04:26
Speaker 3: But Matthew Stafford a couple weeks ago.

01:04:27
Speaker 1: And you might have thought, okay, well, cam Ward holds onto the ball, that's why the pressure rate. So I No, in this game, he was getting rid of.

01:04:33
Speaker 5: The ball for the most part.

01:04:34
Speaker 1: Derek Hall of the Seahawks had five quick pressures on his own. The Seahawks actually, you know, struggled other than really Derek Hall to get like a ton of quick pressure. But for the most part, like they were better. I thought cam Ward like for one game, like outplayed Sam Darnald by just a little bit. But we shouldn't give too much credit. Seattle had a big lead in this game. They did what good teams need to do, and they did give the ball to Kenneth Walker a little more or he played a higher percentage of snaps today, which I was interested to see. He had two thirds of the snaps and two thirds of the touches, and going into the week, they kind of said that that was what's gonna happen, so they might be kind of riding ken Walker. And they ran the ball quite well today against the Titans. So they take care of business. Only uh three losses on the season, eight and three for the Seahawks. Let's take a break and uh we will be back on the other side. We have not checked in with the New England Patriots.

01:05:38
Speaker 3: The Bengals in a two by two set set me down in five lockoes under center the veteran quarterback with a play fake and.

01:05:43
Speaker 4: A deep drop a lot of time double back kickball for upside fifteen to ten, Come on around back over the end zone.

01:05:51
Speaker 5: Let's mark as Jones.

01:05:52
Speaker 12: I never picked six against six and thirty.

01:05:57
Speaker 5: Oh boy, I don't look you up.

01:05:58
Speaker 3: It's amazing how quickty ten fick.

01:06:01
Speaker 5: You needed the touchdown on offense, you needed a getoff on defense.

01:06:06
Speaker 1: Oh that's Scott Zolek on w b Z along with Bob Sochi. The Marcus Jones Pro Bowl season continues apace. He also had the game ceiling pass defense on the very last play of the game. Yes, the Cincinnati Bengals were in it until the last play of the game, but the Patriots escaped twenty six to twenty and Joe Flacco and all the magic that he's brought is, you know, come back to Earth. They don't want to pick on him too much. But on a day where the Bengals defense showed up, shook and got a lot of stops in the red zone, especially on the one yard line, the Bengals offense without Jamar Chase and then without T Higgins late in the game wasn't up for the challenge.

01:06:54
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was even a bad sequence in the fourth quarter where yoshavask goes down Andrey Yoshvasco's down. The next played, t Higgins goes down and you're like, oh man, what else do the Bengals have to deal with. It's already a rough day for them offensively, but you know, not to start negative and everything. But that's kind of the story of the game, is that their defense gave them chances. They made it tough for Drake May and the Patriots offense throughout most of the day, and the Bengals offense simply couldn't capitalize. Now, that pick six that we just played was Joe Flacco's second pick six in as many weeks, and each of them are equally as ugly, which kind of just captures where the Bengals offense is right now. And in games in which their defense does show up and their offense fails to show up or at least do their part, that explains why they've lost both of those games and why they're three to eight right now. Now. On the Patriots side, you give them credit because Drake May, they got enough done in the first half to be able to just kind of chip away with the field goals, but they need to look really inward here going forward at their red zone offense, because it was bad today. They had a sequence of nine plays, six of which were on the Bengals one, and they didn't get any points out of it. They went back down there again four plays, the last one field goal because Mike Frabele learned from the earlier go for an attempt and decided, let's just take the points.

01:08:04
Speaker 5: Three points counts. Patrick.

01:08:05
Speaker 9: It's a good thing he took the points, because that's what they won by six.

01:08:08
Speaker 2: It was a rage field goal decision. You look over the camera cuts to Mike Rabel to see what he's going to do. He's already got three fingers up and very frustrated fashion because they it wasn't just a goal on stop on third down end goal on the previous goal one stand, they got a they got a holding penalty, They gave him first and goal again.

01:08:27
Speaker 3: At the one, and they still didn't get it.

01:08:29
Speaker 1: They had seven snaps total from the one because there was one other one on the ensuing drive that they got from the one. They didn't score one time. And that's why I worry for this Patriots team, which is ten and two but lost the left side of their offensive line to injuries today. Jared Wilson, you know, their their third round pick who's been playing left guard for them and has had his shaff struggles this year, is carted off today with an injury, and then Will Campbell is carted off with the knee injury. He had the towel over his head as he was carded off. It didn't look good. We're not going to speculate at this point, but obviously if they lose both those guys, especially Campbell, who has stabilized that left tackle and been playing really solid for them, they could be in trouble. Because I saw something written about this game that's, like, you know, the Patriots rookies have helped to change their offensive line from embarrassing to above average this season, and now they'll be tested, and I'm like, they're not above average.

01:09:30
Speaker 5: They've been bad.

01:09:31
Speaker 1: Will Campbell's probably been their best player at left tackle, but they've just gone from by far the league's worst to like acceptable in parts. But their running game has been terrible for a reason, and it's their offensive line. The red zone offense you mentioned today and Drake May entering this week, has faced the second most amount of quick pressures in the entire NFL. Only the Chargers have been worse in terms of quick pressures. So these injuries I think really calls into question how they going to construct an offense moving forward.

01:10:02
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, especially when you can't consistently run the ball. And now you've lost half of your offensive line, so you're definitely not gonna be able to consistently run the ball.

01:10:08
Speaker 9: It's just going to put more on the shoulders of.

01:10:09
Speaker 8: Drake May, which to this point he's been able to handle it, and you give him credit for that, but I think today was the first preview of what it might look like if he's not able to handle it, or if the road is just too bumpy for him to find you a steady rhythm, because that's basically what this entire offense was in the second half, him missing throws, him being pressured and rolling out and not having time to throw or find somebody, people not getting open. The one time he throws a touchdown pass in the end zone, it's a product of an offensive pass interference because it's a pick play. Like these are challenges that they're going to encounter going forward. If they are limited offensively, too much is going to be on their quarterback, and that is why you should be concerned about them. But I'm not going to take away from the fact that the first team to ten wins in the NFL. All right, I'll give that that credit.

01:10:49
Speaker 3: Now.

01:10:49
Speaker 5: That's amazing. And the Bills lose earlier in the week.

01:10:52
Speaker 1: They're up a two and a half games in the standings, a couple games in the lost column. Those games against the Bills and Ravens like looking even more interesting coming up. But I think they're going to have to have their their defense step up. It's it's not just about, you know, one side of the ball. I think they could do it. They did get kesh On Booty back today and Ramandre Stevenson back today and they made it work. And the Bengals, who might get Joe Burrow back on Thanksgiving just just to enter is massive.

01:11:21
Speaker 2: Yes, Niggaly Booty is massive, Greg, as you know, his return helps. As you know, a team that has relied on explosive plays didn't didn't get very many today. I thought there was gonna be a great opportunity with the matchup, but as you mentioned, al Golden's defense stood strong and the gift basket may need to go from Voxborough to Jalen Ramsey for being involved in this situation where if Jamar Chase is in this game because should pointed it out, Yoshi goes down, there's no Higgins relying heavily on Mitch Tinsley in the fourth quarter, who did have a touchdown catch where if if Joe has more options that he's not looking staring down the chick in the flat for Marcus Jones to take the other way.

01:12:03
Speaker 3: This game is entirely.

01:12:04
Speaker 1: Different preseason superstar Mitch Tinsley. That's why you watch the games in August, man. Yeah, and it's unfortunately we will almost certainly won't get to see t Higgins on Thanksgiving.

01:12:17
Speaker 5: Jamar Chase will be eligible to be back.

01:12:19
Speaker 1: T Higgins' mom did tweet out that it that she thought, you know, her son was okay, and by that, I think just like feeling okay.

01:12:27
Speaker 3: But it would be.

01:12:28
Speaker 1: Surprising, you know, if he goes through the protocol quick enough to play on Thursday night, so they'll have that game against the Ravens. Let's go to Arizona, the game that truly made Patrick lose his mind.

01:12:40
Speaker 19: They're not showing blitz, they said for here we go to set off to throw lookie lookie fars the jeep downfield.

01:12:46
Speaker 5: That pole is going to be not the way, not the.

01:12:50
Speaker 9: Way, look the way to jack winning.

01:12:53
Speaker 5: It over time with another torific defensive play. All these cardiac cats they win it again. I you win on the roads for the jackson Bill Jaguar.

01:13:06
Speaker 1: They're back to being fun. Then it certainly was messy twenty seven to twenty four in just like a connoisseur's delight. To me, this was a delightful game. I can't wait to watch it a little closer. Frank Frangie on wj XL watched it extremely close, and yes, the Jaguars defense bails out Liam Cohen and Trevor Lawrence who had four turnovers on the day, and they escaped the desert with a victory to get them to seven and four. But Patrick, I do want to hear about the decision making process late in the game and what you thought of Liam Cohen and his fourth and one call.

01:13:53
Speaker 2: Liam Cohen and the Jacksonville Jaguars late in the fourth quarter have an opportunity fourth and one to kick a field goal and go up six late and the models, both models, both widely distributed models, had a slim margin, but still a margin in favor of going for it. Liam Cohen ultimately decides to have Trevor Lawrence throw the ball to Tim Patrick and it's incomplete with a minute and forty three seconds to go, so instead of a six point lead with a minute forty it is now a three point lead, and Jacoby Brissett promptly goes down the field. They get Chad Ryland on a kick and the game goes to overtime.

01:14:34
Speaker 1: I got to throw at the end zone. I loved that little game management. By the way, Jacoby Presett does not spike the ball with about fifteen seconds left. Instead, he runs the call there. I thought that was a veteran move and tries to get the defense not really ready for it. He gets a one on one on the side. It doesn't work out, but yeah, it was. It was a little next level. I think you got to look at the game in front of you, and I think that was what's frustrating you, because for the most part, the Jaguars defense was playing pretty well in this game, and all they had to do is stop the Cardinals from scoring a touchdown with no timeouts.

01:15:10
Speaker 2: And we've seen the impact that having more of their guys. Of course, they're missing incredible amounts of pieces, including the guy they traded up for in the top ten of the NFL draft.

01:15:20
Speaker 3: We hope to get back.

01:15:22
Speaker 2: But Devin Lloyd back in this game, who actually knocked Jacoby Brissett out of the game briefly, but because he's Jacoby Brissett and has his jersey in Canton, Ohio, he summons the will to come back into the game and be very successful.

01:15:35
Speaker 5: I have QB hits for Devin Lloyd.

01:15:38
Speaker 2: He's all over the place, does everything for this defense where I would understand trusting the defense where Josh heinz Allen is having a solid game getting pressure, the Cardinals dealing with injuries of their own on offense, and the Jacks have been getting off the field. And it's one of those very frustrating games on the Jags offense where you get both good Trevor and bad Trevor trading places during the game. There was one interception in the red zone. I understand Kalais Campbell's been playing football for two hundred and fifty years. He jumps up, tips the ball, it gets picked off. Those types of things happen. Yes, the other two Trevor Lawrence interceptions were downright nasty and kept the Cardinals in the game where it's a weird dichotomy because they had a whole lot of success running the ball early, including with Trevor Lawrence, and late in the game you get that interception. They come back, Trevor and Jacoby Myers hook up on back to back plays and get a touchdown, and it's like, yay, Jack's passing game. Next possession is a turnover where you're just not sure how this passing game is going to operate.

01:16:41
Speaker 1: I don't know what to think of this Jaguars team. They had a design run success rate today of twenty percent. Their running game was awful, So everyone's so mad at the play call on fourth and one, rolling Trevor Lawrence out. They did call a running play on third and one in Baseil Twoton, who I think is the better short yardage back, gets stuffed. So their offensive line is just struggling. But that's why you just kick the field goal there. I think because of this situation, Trevor Lawrence has not shown you that he can be trusted. He doesn't even have an open receiver there. I mean to watch that must have felt so helpless for a Jaguars team. And then you watch Jacoby Brissett do what Jacoby Brissett does and overcome the Zebras who gave them a terrible spot which cost them about forty seconds on the final drive because they didn't mark it as a first down and then they had to go for a fourth down and instead of being able to spike the ball, it was a whole thing.

01:17:33
Speaker 5: And then you know, he gets down and at least has a chance to go win the game.

01:17:37
Speaker 1: But when I watched this ending sequence two shook, I thought, like, Jonathan Gannon is a defense first coach, and I know they forced some turnovers today, but they never get.

01:17:48
Speaker 5: The stop that they need.

01:17:49
Speaker 1: It sucks because they keep losing close games but they never get the stop that they need.

01:17:53
Speaker 8: It's the story of their season, the fourth quarter woes, and today was the fourth quarter in overtime woes. It was a really fun game because it was very bad and forth in the final quarter. But that's not what you expect from your team when you have a defensive minded coach like Jonathan Yahn. That's not what I expect. When I look at the Cardinals week by week and make my picks, I go, well, you know what, at least I trust their defense, and now it's Jacoby Brissett, so I trust him to give maximum effort and maybe throw them into situations in which they could potentially win.

01:18:16
Speaker 9: But then it's the fourth quarter problem.

01:18:18
Speaker 8: It's you can't trust them in the final period, which is what happened for them today. Although it was really nice to see Greg dors get loose and move them into field goal range. I thought I was kind of hoping they would spike it or something, just to give himself maybe one core shot the end zone before kicking the field goal.

01:18:33
Speaker 1: But it's fine, Okay, I see what you're saying. You could have maybe gotten two throws there, and yet well.

01:18:38
Speaker 9: Lined up with like sixteen seconds.

01:18:40
Speaker 5: I was like, bike it, come on.

01:18:42
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I think I get what he was thinking, though I think he saw like they're a little frazzled trying to get set up.

01:18:48
Speaker 5: But I hear what you're saying.

01:18:49
Speaker 1: And Patrick and I had a long conversation about Greg Dortsch in the newsroom, where I said Greg Dortsch is a championship level fourth receiver. Like if you get dorts as your fourth receiver, you build everything out backwards from there.

01:19:05
Speaker 5: He can get you to the ship. So the Cardinals at least.

01:19:08
Speaker 2: They have that, they have that foundational piece of a receiving group, which is Greg Dorson is the one.

01:19:12
Speaker 5: And who knows, maybe the Cleveland Browns have a foundational quarterback. Okay, I'm just little funny.

01:19:19
Speaker 20: Win shot out Sampson in you never know it's possible, shouting, geto the backfield here it's a three by one. Shador on third down, throws at Sampson to the flat Sampson thirty five, Sampson forty, Sampson first down.

01:19:32
Speaker 5: He's on the raid of thirty five. Get to put.

01:19:34
Speaker 6: Ray's gone, Dylan Sampson touchdown, and that is a LONGUS play of the year.

01:19:43
Speaker 9: For your Cleveland brown sixty six yards to the house.

01:19:48
Speaker 11: Nill at Sampson's second receiving touchdown, and for Shador Sanders the first passing touchdown of his young NFL career.

01:19:57
Speaker 1: Ooh, we haven't heard from andrews Ciciliano and too long he Andrew Nathan Zigura also on the call for wk RK Browns win easy twenty four to ten in Vegas. Yes, Shadar Sanders the first rookie quarterback, or maybe it's debut quarterback for the Browns to.

01:20:17
Speaker 5: Win in the last eighteen attempts.

01:20:21
Speaker 3: Wow, it's a wild stack.

01:20:22
Speaker 8: You know how old I was when they had a quarterback win his debut?

01:20:25
Speaker 3: Old?

01:20:26
Speaker 5: How old?

01:20:27
Speaker 8: I think?

01:20:27
Speaker 3: It was?

01:20:27
Speaker 12: Two?

01:20:28
Speaker 5: Okay?

01:20:29
Speaker 1: Uh No, Shouldar didn't have to do a ton of the heavy lifting obviously on that play it's a lot of yak. But he did have a beautiful throw early in the game. Quin Shaw juggins with a couple rushing touchdowns, and more importantly, the defense just dominates the Raiders. What did you see out of shadur Nick will start there?

01:20:48
Speaker 8: Well, I anticipated a nasty game between two two and eight teams, and we got a bit of a nasty game. But what wasn't nasty was Shador. He looked better than he did in relief last week. You could tell that the week of preparation gave him confidence. He got the ball out on time. He didn't hold onto it very long except for maybe one or two plays, which is very encouraging because that was his biggest weak point.

01:21:07
Speaker 9: He showed off his arm.

01:21:08
Speaker 8: The throw he has, it's like a fifty two yard at Isaiah Bond That sets up a quinch on Judkins touchdown, rolling right away from pressure, fires it on the run over the dB perfectly puts it on Bond for the big completion That was at that point their longest play of the season before the Samson touchdown. So I thought that he executed it in spots. It was uneven, It was pretty inconsistent. The offense is still a mess, it's still dysfunctional. They still are a low ceiling unit. But ultimately he steadied them enough and did enough things. Made one bad mistake on an interception that's very typical of a rookie. So I say, decent, solid, good thing to build on, not a nightmare, which is more than they could say about most of their season.

01:21:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, and more than you can say about this Raider season. You don't want to go too crazy on a day. Their drop back success rate the Browns was twenty three percent, Like they weren't consistently do it.

01:21:56
Speaker 5: But he did have a thirty nine yarder to Judy.

01:21:58
Speaker 1: You mentioned that play to Bond, which which is almost a replay of the chance he had to tie the game late last week to Isaiah Bonnie. He missed it last week, he hits it today. Miles Garrett is doing unspeakable things on the football field. A couple more sacks today? Was it two forced fumbles? What is it like watching Miles Garrett right now as a Browns fan?

01:22:21
Speaker 8: Well, it's interesting because you know Brown's fans in the moment when they trade it out of two back to five and took Mason Graham, a lot of them were upset because they wanted Travis Hunter, they wanted the new toy. But I think that they're all pretty happy with the decision that they made now because Mason Graham, his arrival, has brought this defensive line to a higher level, better than they were when they had Zadaria Smith and Miles Garrett, when they had Jadevian Clowney and Miles Garrett, because now there's interior pressure that is consistent, and especially against an offensive line that's really bad in the Raiders, I mean horrible, worse than you would ever imagine bad. And then you deploy Miles Garrett against that and it's like watching a monster just feast, just do whatever he wants, just destroy a left tackle, line up over the center and shoot the a gap. Cause all kinds of problems for Gino Smith make his day awful. Ten total sacks for the Browns. Miles Garrett had three. He has eighteen eighteen with six games to play, like he's gonna break the record.

01:23:15
Speaker 5: He's a little bit don't risk.

01:23:18
Speaker 9: I'm saying he never care. I don't care. I don't care he's gonna break it.

01:23:21
Speaker 1: So Reggie White Ones had nineteen sacks through the first eleven games of the season. That was in nineteen eighty seven. The previous record holder Mark Gastino had seventeen and a half sacks. And of course, yes, Garrett gets more games to play with to try to break Michael straight Hands record. He also had four TFLs today, so he is on an insane tackle for loss rate two and it was three total sacks. I only saw the two forced fumbles, but he had another one. And yeah, this season just can't fast enough for the Raiders.

01:23:52
Speaker 3: They're getting worse screct Ye.

01:23:54
Speaker 5: They're the worst team in the NFL. They're worse than the Titans.

01:23:57
Speaker 3: It's not even close where I was.

01:24:00
Speaker 2: That was my thoughts because I know everybody was excited about the opportunity to see should or play, see Miles Garrett play against the worst offensive line that I have ever seen.

01:24:08
Speaker 3: I truly think.

01:24:09
Speaker 2: I believe at this point in the NFL, I have not seen an offensive line worse than this. And miles average get off is still, you know, at twenty nine years old, zero seven to one today, still getting off the line of scrimmage faster than anybody. And you know, this line is overmatched everywhere, but definitely overmatched with the best defensive player that you know, since since JJ Watt was doing things, since Aaron Donald was wrecking things, it's not even close. Miles is shouldn't be on the same field disease, guys.

01:24:40
Speaker 5: That's absolutely fair. So the Browns three and eight, but they are two and zero.

01:24:44
Speaker 1: In Kevin Stefanski hot seat matchups, he had that one against May McDaniel where I thought, maybe the loser gets fired and they blew out the Dolphins, but they didn't fire McDaniel, and then beats Pete Carroll, who is not having much fun in Vegas. Let's go to New Orleans where no one who was rooting for the home team was having any fun.

01:25:05
Speaker 5: It's yours cousins, looking, He's gonna sil.

01:25:08
Speaker 6: It for Mooney, Dunhill Mooney touchdown Atlanta.

01:25:12
Speaker 12: Oh my goodness, there were two block Shirts back there thought they had.

01:25:16
Speaker 17: Good position and Cousins dropped it in a bucket to Darnell Mooney.

01:25:22
Speaker 5: Big time throw from Kirk Cousins.

01:25:25
Speaker 1: Oh, you can't came Kirk Cousins down for too long, Patrick, No matter what you want to do, that's Wes Durham on WZGC. The Falcons win twenty four to ten on a day where, yes, their defense was the best unit on the field. The Saints' offense only scores three points. They get their only touchdown on a pick six right by Kirk Cousins. Wasn't there a pick six in this game?

01:25:48
Speaker 5: Or am I crazy?

01:25:49
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, Cousins.

01:25:50
Speaker 5: Cousins threw a pick six, and thank you.

01:25:52
Speaker 2: They got the score and they had chances Greg, but they elected to to not score him do anything.

01:25:58
Speaker 5: That's true. They elected to kick a field goal late.

01:26:02
Speaker 1: But yeah, there was a fourth down that they went for where Taysom Hill threw the ball instead of kicking a field goal.

01:26:09
Speaker 5: That didn't work.

01:26:10
Speaker 1: Look, we pick a lot of games throughout the course of the season, and we're going to be wrong so often. But for some reason, I feel like you picking the Saints to win this game, Patrick, drove you more crazy than any pick you made all season.

01:26:23
Speaker 5: Yes, you were chugging hater aide as.

01:26:25
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins was piloting a two play sequence where they got eighty one yards off of a second and twenty four. That touchdown to Mooney was preceded by like a forty yard screen to Beajon Robinson.

01:26:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, the screen came on second and twenty one because Kirk the pressure got to the Saints get pressure on Kirk Cousins, and it looked like typical twenty twenty five Kirk Cousins where he wasn't sure what to do. The pressure came, he threw the ball to absolutely nobody. The Saints lobbying Brian Brecy arms out to the stripes where the referees do that thing where they have the long discussion, and then they dropped the flag out thinking the Saints got a chance, they got a chance. They get off the field here, they'll go back down and they're going to score this time. No, it's a screen to Bajon and then immediately Darnell Mooney and Kirk Cousins like dust off. It looks like prime Darnell Mooney and prime Kirk Cousins, where it's like, what are you doing, Saints? What are the Saints doing it?

01:27:16
Speaker 1: I love I love Kirk was kind of like gearing back to get everything into that throat, and uh, they get a win, which you know for the season they had. Anyone is going to feel good four and seven for the Saints. I mean for the Falcons and the Saints fans. After that touchdown, they all just left. If if if you're I was watching that late in the game, and like when they hit that touchdown to go up two touchdowns, there's about ten minutes left, and it's not like you're really trying to beat traffic in New Orleans, like you're walking out of there or just the traffic's not that bad, it's fine. Uh, but people are just like, no, I've had enough of the New Orleans Saints and just a sad performance. Tyler Shuck SHOOKI was the leading rusher on the day where Alvin Kamara left the game pretty early to injury. They had nothing going whatsoever on the ground. Taysom went ten carries for seventeen yards.

01:28:08
Speaker 9: Yeah, can we end this already?

01:28:10
Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure we've graduated from the Taysom Hill experience as a ball career.

01:28:13
Speaker 9: I think we've proven that in previous weeks.

01:28:15
Speaker 8: Whenever Tyler shuck, a guy who can improvise is your leading rusher, but is not the leading rusher that you want to run like the Titans want cam Ward to run.

01:28:24
Speaker 9: You know you're in a bad place.

01:28:26
Speaker 8: But when I look at this team defensively and I think, well, how do you give up twenty four points to Kirk Cousins and Darnell Mooney in the Atlanta Falcons and Bijon Robinson helber player. But here's how Because I look at this group of players and all I see is the twenty ten, twenty eleven Cleveland Cavaliers, where it's Baron Davis and Luke Harron Godi and Sean Livingston getting his last shot at the NBA which ends up getting him a spot with the Warriors. Like it's a bunch of no names, this is a Saints team that is very clearly in a transition period right now.

01:28:54
Speaker 3: Shout up with Luke aret Gody.

01:28:56
Speaker 2: I just think I would ever hear about if you had not said his name, I would have never thought about Luke Aeron Gody. Ever, again, my issue with the Taysom experience today is it was all the highest leverage plays in the game. Yeah, it was fourth and one in the red zone and a gold to go situation. And then yeah, let's get shuck out of here. Let's get Taysom to come in and throw a pass. He's zero for two through the air in this game where it's not sneaking up on anybody at this point. When Taysom Hill comes in, it's not, oh no, what are the Saints gonna do. It's the Taysom Hill package in the same Taysom Hill package, now under three different coaching regimes, where it's the same Taysom Hill package, and let's let's get rid of it. I don't want to see Taysom Hill package anymore.

01:29:39
Speaker 5: No, I don't. It's I don't know.

01:29:41
Speaker 1: Kellen Moore has got that special connection. He's got that he's got that loyalty to his brother, and he just he just keeps giving it, giving him the ball man. Kellen Moore just not inspiring in his first Saints season. Let's take one final break and we'll get to a team that's been pretty inspiring all season. Yes, it's the Los Angeles Rams. We're gonna say goodbye to Patrick Bye. Everybody go say hello to the children.

01:30:07
Speaker 3: I shall Stafford the pistol has to go up and over his left shoulder to.

01:30:18
Speaker 5: Catch the snap locks.

01:30:20
Speaker 19: One zoe is a touchdown, Devontae Adams racing underneath another. Matthew Stafford's got twenty four yards and you can let those MVP chants bring in again. It's one, two, three for Matthew Stafford and Debunte's gut too. Oh, it's back to a three store lead. Matthew to the bonte.

01:30:48
Speaker 5: They are sizzily, They are sizzly. You know who else is? Sisley jav Long on KSPN.

01:30:55
Speaker 1: I met grunting in the background. Our friend Maurice Jones drew the Rams. Make it a laugher on Sunday night football thirty or to seven, Yes, if it's a day that ends, and why DeVante Adams is scoring a touchdown often two And this thing not only was over at halftime thirty one to seven.

01:31:16
Speaker 5: At halftime, there was not much more to play. We just got a field goal in the second half and we were killing time.

01:31:21
Speaker 1: Took because Baker Mayfield was out with a left shoulder injury. More on that in a second, But this was a night I don't think it would have mattered if Baker was healthy or not. In fact, he was healthy until they were down three touchdowns. Man, When the Rams offense is looking good, and they've looked great in the first quarter of these games for over a month now, it just seems like no one can stop them.

01:31:48
Speaker 8: Yeah, and then you add in a pick six of fifty yards and it's like, oh, now, you just put that on the board as well.

01:31:54
Speaker 9: They do feel.

01:31:55
Speaker 8: Unstoppable at times, especially you know, against opponents that struggle to give them resistance. This is not the Seahawks game, but it is. I mean, it's another example of how good this offense can be. Like it honestly feels vindicating. It feels like justice has been served to DeVante Adams for the time that he spent in Vegas with the Raiders, because now he is in the perfect He's in football Heaven with Matthew Stafford. They're just making beautiful music art every weekend and we all get to sit back and watch it.

01:32:24
Speaker 9: And sometimes it'sdn't blow out fashion like this.

01:32:27
Speaker 5: Yeah.

01:32:27
Speaker 1: And maybe the best catch he made all night was actually called back by a penalty, a leaping grab he made in the second half he did have one drop. I swear he said more drops with the Rams than any other time in his career. But he keeps getting it done, and the MVP conversation put it on the board. Patrick Claibahn, wherever you are tonight, is only going to help with Stafford getting those three touchdowns in the first half and that drive. That touchdown that we just heard shook. It just shows you how they can do anything they want to do with the Rams because the Bucks are trailing twenty one nothing. You mentioned the pick six that's on a play where kateat and essentially drops the ball as he's going to his knees and Kobe Durant steals it from him. Look like he might have been down, but by the letter of the law, I guess he got to do a football move and Durant returns it the other way, and so it's it looks like a blow out early, but the Bucks finally get a touchdown on the drive where Mayfield actually hurt his left shoulder, but they get it to twenty one to seven, and then literally just four plays later, it's like a three yard run and then it's Pooka up the seam for like twenty four yards, it's Momfield for fourteen and then a dime to DeVante Adams. So they can be explosive or they can turn the running game. And their success rate was through the roof, and I think that gets lost a little bit that the run for me, for the Rams sets up the pass. Obviously the past is the most important thing, but they are in favorable situation so often because of the run.

01:33:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.

01:33:57
Speaker 9: Absolutely, And it all goes back to Kyen Willy and the role that he plays in this offense. But it's not just that.

01:34:02
Speaker 8: It's the offensive line and how they've been very cohesive this year, whether it's protecting Matthew Stafford or opening running lanes, it's really allowing Sean mcvady get creative with how they want to run the ball. And then beyond Kira Williams in Blake Koram and we've enjoyed a little bit of a difference in style. Where Korm's more of a north south, less vision type of runner. Kyron obviously more dynamic, able to you know, find lanes and run through them. And I think it just fills out this offense. Like you bring in Devonte Adams and you put him next to Pooka Nakua. You have a very good one two receiver tandem Kyram Williams and Blake korm solid one two running tandem. And when it all marries together under Sean mcvay's vision, this is what it looks like.

01:34:38
Speaker 1: Right in the difference this year, more than any year, I feel like it's it's a difference making defense. So the Rams get six quarterback hits, four sacks, seven tackles for loss, and ten passes defense against Baker Mayfield and Teddy Bridgewater, who you know was not Jameis Winston coming off the bench in the second half. But Baker Mayfield then the first half, goes nine for nineteen for forty one yards. He has those two interceptions, one obviously not his fault. But what shouldn't get lost is, you know, on plays, you know, other than that interception, they were still averaging about two and a half yards per pass and against the pressure, I believe he was zero for four when they blitzed him, he was like one for five and took a sack. The pass rush was just awesome, whether it was Verse or Kobe Turner. And then Baker hurts it his shoulder and he didn't really show it at first on a run and he follows it up with a couple of nice passes.

01:35:39
Speaker 5: But you see him win.

01:35:40
Speaker 1: See after they get a touchdown, and you remember, I believe I guess I'll put you on the spot.

01:35:45
Speaker 5: You remember how Baker's career ended in Cleveland, right.

01:35:48
Speaker 9: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, it was. It was the twenty twenty one season.

01:35:51
Speaker 8: It was after he letend of the playoffs and their first playoff win since they'd returned in ninety nine. And he was playing through multiple injuries that year, and the first one was the left shoulder, which ended being a torn laboram that didn't require surgery, but as somebody who's torn both of his laborums and had surgery on one of them, that surgery is not super successful anyway, and it's not an injury that you can just like rehab away. And he gets annoying and he gets painful and bothersome even when you're not actively using it as you're throwing shoulder. Now, we don't know what happened to him this time, but he's got a history of having injuries with that shoulder, and that's what contributed to his downfall with the Browns.

01:36:23
Speaker 5: It was that it was a knee.

01:36:24
Speaker 8: He struggled that year while playing through those injuries, and it bumps me out for him because this team is so banged up already. They're missing multiple receivers. Their offensive line has been a shuffling act all year. They haven't had Bucky Irving for a considerable stretch of time. Now, and then your quarterback, the guy who has been basically carrying you in most weeks and propelling your offense forward through scenarios in which most quarterbacks wouldn't get you to the other side. Now he's banged up. And you saw what happened tonight. You take him out of the equation when he's already banged up and they're just a non competitive offense.

01:36:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look they were without Jabell Dean, their best cornerback tonight. Bucky Irvy and who you mentioned, Hassan Reddick was out, and you know, the Rams start a new right tackle, Warren McLendon. They put Rob Havenstein on injured reserve. You didn't notice any difference. That's one area where like Hassan Reddick could possibly help. You're missing your two starting guards from week one. I kind of forgot during the week when I said they're only missing one guard, I forget Cody Mock's already out for the season. So yeah, just a lot of issues and they're falling to six and five, and we're right back to where we tend to be, which is the NFC South winner is probably going to be the four seed. And yes, the Bucks schedule gets much easier the rest of the way, but they're out of point, especially if Baker's not one hundred percent, where no win is going to be assured. Meanwhile, the Rams are the one seed and in a week where they put Hanstein, Quinton Lake, and Tyler Higbee on injured reserve, look, they look so deep there.

01:37:49
Speaker 5: Tight ends were so important in this game.

01:37:52
Speaker 1: You know, you get Kolbe Parkinson for a touchdown, Davis Allen gets Loose for three catches, and this is just a really complete team. And to me, for the Rams, it's all gonna be about weeks fifteen and sixteen. In a five day period, they will play the Lions and then they'll play the Seahawks on a Thursday night, and that's gonna to me really decide whether they are the one seed or who knows Seattle might be able to run this table too, and it could all come down to that Week sixteen game that's in the future. This team is maybe the best Sean McVay team we have seen yet, to the point where him and Stafford are getting into it and mcvay's getting mad at like thirty one to seven. Did you see that, where like Stafford missed a couple throws and they're like yelling at each.

01:38:37
Speaker 8: Other, at which point that Matt Matthew Stafford probably shouldn't even be in the game, Like, just take them out, because the biggest key for me is once they get to that week fifteen sixteen point, how healthy can you be when you get there? That's what's most important, all right, So they're nine and two before we leave for the day. We did have some breaking news as we were watching this game. Chip Kelly is out as the Las Vegas Raiders offensive coordinator. So Patrick Claybon has been just killing Chip Kelly week after week all season long.

01:39:10
Speaker 5: I feel like he was first.

01:39:11
Speaker 1: Maybe Pete Carroll was first, but Patrick Claybon was second, and it felt weird that he is not on the show for this.

01:39:17
Speaker 5: So we're gonna do an NFL Daily first. Jock We're gonna call Claybon.

01:39:23
Speaker 1: Right now, just on my phone. I mean, he's not gonna pop up. I never call him on the phone, so he might not answer. We'll see if this works. Maybe we'll even edit it out. I got to put this thing on speaker and we'll see how this goes.

01:39:37
Speaker 9: Is this the first time you've called somebody while you're not driving?

01:39:40
Speaker 5: Patrick? This is Greg.

01:39:42
Speaker 1: You are on NFL Daily right now? Are you free to talk? You are on NFL Daily? Are you aware that the Raiders have been watching the show and that they have fired Chip Kelly?

01:39:54
Speaker 5: Tonight?

01:39:55
Speaker 21: You know what, Greg, I appreciate not just Tom Brady's commitment to being an NFL list an NFL Daily note listener, but Pete Carroll clearly the It had nothing to do with the output, the ability UH to all to be watchable, to be fun. This was purely reaction to our continued conversation regarding Chip Kelly, which comes to a sad and empty ending.

01:40:22
Speaker 1: Tonight, You're you are such a pro I mean, you had that answer ready. I'm fumbling around trying to put it on speaker. You have this thing answered before I even get there. What did you think I was possibly calling you about right now.

01:40:34
Speaker 7: Well, when you started a conversation with I am on NFL Daily right now, my brain went to any number of places where it's like.

01:40:44
Speaker 3: Recording. We finished recording the show.

01:40:46
Speaker 7: I'm watching Van Perino with my kids because you know, another circumstance, it was concluded while we left the podcast studio, and so yeah, this is this is big news, very important news.

01:41:02
Speaker 3: It's Markee news. Right now.

01:41:03
Speaker 7: In November of twenty twenty five, Key is doing something else for the remainder of the season, which congratulations to him, because his previous thing was.

01:41:11
Speaker 3: Not going well.

01:41:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, it might not be the worst thing for him. He's the highest paid offensive coordinator in the league. That money is guaranteed, it goes on into future years. And I now feel bad for interrupting your family time. Thank you Patrick for chipping in as always, no thank you.

01:41:26
Speaker 7: Greg, and thanks to Chip Kelly for truly providing us with something unique in twenty twenty five.

01:41:32
Speaker 3: It was great.

01:41:33
Speaker 5: Thanks see you man.

01:41:35
Speaker 8: Unique in the form of ten Zacks giving up to the Browns today the first time in my memory that I can see the Browns fire and getting someone fired on the same day the.

01:41:45
Speaker 1: Raiders just keep cycling through head coaches so quickly, and you got to think Pete Carroll, you know, is maybe on the way out too. He had not fired a coordinator, took in fourteen seasons during the season when he was with Seattle.

01:42:02
Speaker 8: Now that he's fired two, he's fired too. To Patrick Graham, keep an eye over your shoulder.

01:42:09
Speaker 5: Patrick Graham's doing the best that he can.

01:42:12
Speaker 1: All right, fun Sunday, I think we really crystallize what's going on here in both conferences. It's really coming down in both conferences. If you look at it to ten teams for seven spots, and it's fascinating that the three teams out right now in the AFC are Pittsburgh, Houston, and Kansas City all at six and five, while you know the Chargers, Jags, and Bills have the last three spots at seven and four. We talked about the AFC North before and then I think the same is basically the case in the NFC. Ten teams for seven spots. I'm including the Cowboys in that mix at five to five and one, and we kind of have the Panthers and the Bucks playing the roles of raven Steelers in the NFC where just one team is getting that spot and it's probably gotta be the four seed.

01:43:01
Speaker 8: It's all shaping up, shooky, it's all gonna change. It's gonna change. I'm telling you, we're gonna get a lot of movement in these.

01:43:07
Speaker 9: Next six weeks.

01:43:08
Speaker 1: Okay, looking forward to it. Let's get out of here because we got another show to do soon enough. Monday Night Football, as we do each and every week, my parents are arriving on a plane during Monday Night Football, was like, can we go live after Panthers forty nine ers when the parents are a right, some things.

01:43:29
Speaker 5: Are more important than family.

01:43:30
Speaker 1: Panthers forty nine ers live on YouTube me and shook see you then,