66. Dating in our 20’s - why we date the wrong people

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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to another episode. It is so great to have you here. New listeners, old listeners. I am so pumped for today's episode because we have a fantastic, amazing guest joining us to talk about this week's topic. Hi Sydney, Hi Gemma, how are you. I'm amazing, How are you? I'm so good? Thank you for agreeing to come on board. It's my pleasure if actually been wanting to do this for a while, a long time. Yeah, I might just give you a bit more of an introduction, please, sir, because I feel like we're already just having a chit chat away. So, Sydney is one of my one of my closest, closest friends. You didn't know his name. It's specifrocated, it's mutual. Yeah, thank hope. So yeah, yeah, I think we're good. But Sydney, you are Do you want to explain what you do? How we met before we jump in? Sure? Um, my name is Sydney, like the city. Um, currently I reside in Melbourne and I I'm a tattoo artist among many other things. I always have different creative pursuits happening, but predominantly I'm a tattoo riters. I run a creative publication called Sweden Sour that centers around Asian Australian identities. I also work in consulting a little bit, do some freelance graphic design. And I'm a trained printmaker, which is what I studied. And Gemma and I met in Canberra. How long ago was that? Two years? Three years years ago? And um we met through well we actually met like at a party randomly before the start of COVID, and then COVID happened. We didn't stay in touch. But Sydney, as you could have probably heard and seen, is a jack of many trades, jack of many trades, jacob all all of them, well pretty much all of them, thank you. Has so many different amazing things that she does. And through her publication the Sweet and Sour zine Zione Zne whatever you want to Yeah, both work, Yeah, both are correct. The publication, she was running a life drawn class and I went to it and I went up she was like Hi, I don't know if you remember me, and you were like oh, hey, like how are you? And then the rest is really history, and we are here today to talk about something we talk about quite a bit long way around each other, and like not in the way that we're like, oh like boys, boys boys, Yeah, Oh no, no, I don't think in this like that. And even if it was like who gives them? I love boys and I hate them, and that's literally it's about the nuances of hating and loving the opposite gender for romantic purposes. But what we really want to talk about is like a lot of things, why we can really struggle with dating in our twenties, why we fall in love with the wrong people, why we date the wrong people, how we attract these like the same kind of individuals. I feel like it's something that a lot of us have to learn in our twenties. Um, maybe you don't. Maybe you found your person and that's it. In congratulations if that's you, But for most of us, I would say, you find the people that you truly love and the type of person you truly love through a lot of trial and error. Would you agree, yes, yes, yes, And it's hard and it's exhausting, Yeah, but I think it's it's always worth it. Yeah, I would say so hasn't to be honest, hasn't been worth it for me so far? Well, I think you'll reflect back on that in five or ten years and realize that of all the shitty things that have happened to you in your dating life have made it worth have you know? It worthwhile? Worth while? Yeah? Even this year. Actually, I think that I was like dating someone at the end of last year, and the amount of like growth that came out of that was ridiculous, Like he like completely broke my heart and it was like terrible for some time. Yeah, and then I was like, fuck, I just like completely became a different person. Like with all that, I think it left me feeling so insecure. I had like the lowest self esteem I think I've ever had, and I couldn't like jump into a new relationship to fix it, so I had to do it all myself. And now, like the person I was twelve months ago, I don't know. I don't think. I don't think much of her exists anymore. What about you learn any lessons from this year? You find quite a few lessons, I feel like it's been a busy year, a few year in terms of dating. Yeah, wait, don't they say that your cells like not regenerate, but like they die and then they yea regenerate every twelve months or something like that. So so literally the person you're a twelve years ago physically it doesn't exist anymore, which I think is an interesting metaphor for what you just said. Oh my god. Yeah, but it's so funny because like even though those cells don't still exist, right, like, all those memories still do. Yeah, like you can't get rid of that. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, whoa, whoa, a real serious science on this episode because I do not understand. I don't understand that. Yeah, if the cells that hold those memories don't exist, and how do those memories still exist? It's fucking the demon. The demon is at work in our mind. Damn well, I like that is actually such a good point. I think it's also the thing with blood, right, like all your blood. M I guess it's still the cells. Yeah, actually I do know the answer to this. Ner neurons, your sign apses. They actually the cells within them might regenerate, but you can never have more neurons than you were born with, which is why like doing hardcore like drugs or like when if someone is an alcoholic can be so especially in their infancy or not infancy, but like in the early teens or late teens can be so damaging because you never get more neurons than you're born with, which is why I guess like our memories stay so permanent because either you like completely damage your brain and you get amnesia and then you can forget about whatever it is that haunts you, or you don't and you're anyhow, there's the science behind it. I feel like that was kind of like a patchwork explanation. Yeah, yeah, we got further, Yeah we did so lessons I should have written the list. I have so many like TikTok saved or it's like things I wish I knew about dating in my twenties and things I learned from dating this year, and I have my favorite ones. I should have written down less of my favorite ones. Yeah, can you remember when it's like particularly like, yeah, I think, um, I think one thing that's really stuck out. Okay, two things really stick out to me when when you ask me that question. Two kind of statements. The first one We've heard this a million times, and I think we all try and convince ourselves to believe it, but a lot of us don't. If if he wanted to, he would. And the second statement is, um, why are we having relationship problems that people were not in a relationship with? Oh? And I feel like both of those things really encapsulate my my dating life of twenty twenty, which is kind of sad when those two statements aren't exactly positive, But I really, yeah, I really think those accurately reflect reflect my life. I think through all, I've dated a lot of men in twenty twenty, like a lot and twenty my bad. I've dated a lot of men in twenty twenty two, And in twenty twenty twenty, I was in a relationship, so I didn't date a lot of man. I dated a lot of men in twenty twenty two, and I think so many times I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I was willing to give him a second chance. And I really believed that you know, a lot of these men maybe were the one, and that they really really cared for me and loved me even and I saw the best in them, and I kept giving them second chances and thinking that you know, they would not not I didn't want them to change, but perhaps I held on to the hope that they would realize that, you know, I was a really good person. Then they wanted to be, you know, have something with me. And they told me they wanted in whatever. But I think, seriously, if he wanted to, he would. I think people say they're not ready for a relationship, but if you really do love someone, in value someone that you want to be in a relationship with them, you'll make it work no matter what, no matter what. I completely agree with that statement, Like, if they wanted to, they would. Yeah, I did see this like turnament that was like if they know, then they should, like if they know what you expect, then they should reciprocate him, and if they don't, well then they're definitely not the right person. But I honestly believe this because I think about my own perspective towards dating. When I really care about someone, like I am willing to give them everything everything, yeah, and probably more than I can give, more than they probably deserve from me as well. And there have been times in my life when I've been like I do not want a relationship. I am so not in the mindset, and then I meet someone and they are the right person and I end up dating them for like two years, and yeah, there is those times at the beginning where I'm like, oh, I don't know, I don't know, but not for their like, not for for my sake, for their sakes, they don't want to hurt them when you really, like can feel chemistry with someone and you have that intuition like there really there's no reason why you shouldn't be right now. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good lesson actually, And I also just think it's something that I've learned more the more men I've dated, where I'm like, do I really want to be dragging you, kicking and screaming into a relationship with yeah? Yeah, or like begging you for yeah, or try and convince you or persuade you or yeah, or do things to make you, you know, understand that you do want a relationship with me. Yeah, No, you should just know. Yeah. And it's also just like you know what your person's probably out there, and if it's not me, well, I don't think that love should be made up of so much attention, so much difficulty yeah. No, I think another lesson I learned from this year is that things are really quite black and white. Like I think I made up excuses for lots of people, Like, you know, i'd see someone and be like, oh, they would be in a relationship with me if they didn't have this going on in their life, and they do really really love me and care for me and want to be in a relationship with me. But this is happening, and maybe after that happens, they'll be different, or you know, this will happen and that will happen. No, it's really black and white. If they wanted to, they would, if they wanted me right now, they would be with me. Yeah, and they wouldn't make up those excuses. Well, I think about the example, like what you went through in the last two months, right with that person, and we're okay to talk about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder if you'll listen to the boat. No, I don't wonder if you will maybe, but yeah, it's fine. I don't care. Well, if you're listening, you really fumbled the fucking bag, Yeah, bitch, like that felt so unnatural coming out of on now unnatural? Well he did, he did. Maybe you called me and I was like, man, I just had the biggest l of his life because I think, oh, he does actually know it a little Christmas message we all see right through that. There was literally a TikTok I sent you about that, Yeah, the Christmas message. Yeah, and you know what he really he really did And it's something that I've realized more and I hope I think you realized this as well. The more you mature and grow confident in yourself and like see your value, the more you're like, wow, totally you're loss. Yeah, because lately, most of the men who treat us the worst, those who really have nothing going for them, like not much. I was thinking about this the other day. I was like looking at the splattering of people that have broken my heart, and I was like, not one of them has accomplished anything that I could respect compared to you. Yeah, they well, I don't know if that I think that makes me feel weird. But without the comparison, right, if it's just not to be like relative about it, but like absolute, none of them I like have They had no ambitions, they had no dreams. Most of them didn't even have like a job, They didn't have anything they were passionate about and even if they did, like, they didn't take it very seriously. They weren't like self motivated, self starters, like none of it. So what did you see in them? I don't know. I think I saw a project to be honest, yeah, or also I just saw what they could give me, which was like, I want to be loved, and I think it's a massive thing of mine where it's like I'm very much willing to actually go against what I truly believe in some ways to receive affection and to receive vans something I had to unlearn this year and I did, I like very actively, was like I can see the times in the past in which I have actually undermined my own moral compass. I've borne against my values because I was so desperate for this person's admiration and for their love, and the result has been me feeling like completely distanced from my true self and why for what? For what reason? Like I think about that guy I dated at the end of last year, Oh my god, like I did. I was like, I lost friends because I chose to be with him. And it's like what you said, stop having relationship problems with people. You're not in a relationship with We weren't even like exclusive, and I still was willing to make those sacrifices. It's not his fault, definitely not. It's like all on me for not recognizing that floor myself soon enough, I think, Like another thing but I really want to talk about it, is like, why do you think we do date the wrong people and fall in love with the wrong people given that we have all of that knowledge, Like we obviously both quite successful, self starting women who have a lot of people who love us, who create positive impact, Like you literally put art on people's bodies that they're going to have for the rest of their lives. How crave like that is? Like almost that is so profound to me when you every time I like see you at work, so honored to be able to do that. Yeah, it's incredible. And we know all this about ourselves, right, Like we know that sometimes we just create affection, we look past the red flags that as I think successful women, sometimes we settle a little bit because we're worried that someone won't ever want this kind of like I don't know not ever want it, but like we'll feel intimidated or it's like when you when you're forced to be strong all the time. Sometimes you just want the soft yeah, yeah, yeah, Sometimes you just want the gooyiness and like someone just really giving you a cuddle and like caring about you. So why do you think it is that we have historically chosen to date the wrong people? I honestly, I don't know. Maybe it comes um, maybe it comes from I think I have a lot of insecurities. Um. I think they probably stem from things I went through as a child and maybe the way my parents raised me. But um, I'm like, what did I read the other day? UM? I have like I was it someone sent me many sent me this TikTok and it was like, um, some of you back, well I was I can't remember. Um. Yeah, I think I think even though I think logically I know I'm a successful, you know, businesswoman, I think I'm a relatively attractive logically, I feel like I shouldn't have as many insecurities that I do have. Like I am so incredibly insecure, and I think maybe that plays a big part in how I date. Because I feel so insecure. Maybe I don't think that I deserve or have the capacity to be with somebody who is at my level, who like I would really want a date and maybe I'm settling because I just don't believe I could find anybody better because I am so insecure. Wow, that's sad. It is sad, but I think it makes sense, right. I saw I read this article the other day and it was like a lot of the time, the reason why we get like the ick from people who like us too much just because we believe so deeply that we are not deserving of that love that we push them away, which is a big thing, right, Like totally you're like I also I think similarly, like in a very levein as people who you know, work really hard and have pretty big dreams that we know are going to require a lot of agency. We often see it as the case of like when I have to work harder for something, it's more valuable. Yeah. I think about this all the time. Yeah, so it's like, Okay, I think when the way I was raised was like if it's easy, then everyone can do it, and you don't want the thing that everyone has, Like you want to be you know, you want to do something different and you want to really be good at something different and be able to touch people's lives in a way that like, it's not everyone can do that, and you have to work really hard. So now it's like been ingrained to me. It's like, well, if something is easy, it's not worth having. Like in every other facet of our lives, we have to work really hard and put in a lot of effort. So that mentality then bleeds into our dating life when we have someone who's there who like, is really obsessed with us, who really likes us, where like, oh, this seems a little bit too good to be true, and I'm not used to getting something like this for free, and you push it away, you push it away. And then then when there's someone that you have to work when they you know you don't feel deserving of their love because they push you away because they play hard to get or because they're quite cold or hostile will never give you what you want. You're like, well, this is what I want because obviously, like the best things in life aren't easy, so you know, this should be something that I that I work for. I think that as a mentality that we often have very unconsciously, but we don't realize. I've I honestly think that's a big explanation for my dating choices. Yeah, that's how we get stuck in these situations because you're like, it's also sorry, sunk costs as well, sunk well sunk costs. So it's like, okay, say, for example, you buy like a really expensive pair of boots and then they break. You're like, you're not just going to throw them out because you already invested that money in them. Yeah, so you are going to pay that additional forty dollars to you know, get the heel fixed, and then the typer breaks, You're not going to throw them out. You are going to pay additional money, and it keeps piling up because you've made that initial investment that was so intense that you're like, I don't want to I've sunk that money into this already. I don't want to lose that initial money, but actually end up spending more money than you probably would have if you just bought a new pair. And that's what it's like with relationships. For example, you're like dating someone you're like two months in and you're like, fuck, like, I've already told my friends about this guy. Yeah, I've wasted two months on like getting to know him. Yeah, I've invested, you know, time and energy and money into going on dates, into doing fun things, and now he doesn't want the same thing. But I'm not going to give up because I've already put all of this effort. I have all these sunk costs in this relationship, So I'm just going to keep throwing my time and energy at it and hoping that it turns around, when really it would be better just to dump them right there and then and there. You've lost two months of time, just move on. Yeah, you know, it's not a great situation, Like, it's probably not the outcome that you wanted, but you're actually going to end up losing more if you keep going, and it's very unlikely that you're going to get the outcome that you want. Have you felt that way? Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, the way you've explained that makes so much sense. Yeah. Actually, it's like gambling. Like when people gamble, they're like, you know, I've already like put in two thousand dollars on the Pokeys, but if I put ten dollars and I might be able to win it all back. Yeah, that's mine. How do you change that thinking? Um? I think I don't really know. I guess it's like a conscious thing you have to be really really like explicit about and very much pay attention to. But I think your point before about like your childhood that also plays a role in whether or not you're going to I don't want to say like fall, but like be vulnerable to these kind of psychological inner workings. Yeah, so, like, what do you think it was about how your parents raised you? Oh god, oh my god. We're actually sitting on a couch right now, so it's very Freudian like back, tell me about your childhood trauma. Um, well, I don't really know what a successful relationship looks like or a successful marriage. I suppose rather, my parents got divorced when I was four. My entire extended family everyone's been through a divorce, everyone's remarried. Um, nobody in my life really has. I don't think. I I can't really think of anybody in my um like close circle of friends and family who isn't a successful relationship, a long term relationship. No, actually that's not true. I've uncles and aunts who are like reading right now pretty far like yeah, and also, how often do you see your uncle's and aunts? Yeah? Not that often? But my mom's been divorced twice and now she's fiercely independent and single. My dad only got remarried last year, after um twenty years of being single. He's just been remarried again. He's been dating his whole life. He seems happy now. But um, I don't know, like my my mom, so I felt m completely unattractive and undateable, and I guess unfuckable when I was like since I was a teenager, since since puberty, and I didn't think I deserved um anyone's love. I didn't think I was attractive enough to like, um, be with anybody. And my mom I always told me I was fat, and she always criticized my physical appearance a lot, to the point where my sister developed and eating disorder. And yeah, she was relatively toxic when I was younger in the way that she raised me. She's she's good now, I mean somewhat good, Like we have a pretty good relationship. But I think she didn't give me a lot of like physical affection and didn't express her love to me in a tangible way when I was younger, because I mostly grew up with her from when I was twelve years old to like twenty one, twenty two, and she never really touched me or hugged me or told me that she loved me. And so as soon as it like the first time a man like told me that I felt I was hot or wanted to go on a date with me, I clung onto that like so deeply, because then I then I realized I was lovable and that I could receive love and affection from people. And then I just began to crave that so much because I never got that in my childhood from my mother. And then I became like a serial dater and I just needed to be with men. I remember the first or second year I started dating, I was just I needed to be with people all the time. And the intimacy that I found through sex and through dating men, yeah, like filled that hole metaphorically and physically, Yeah, inside me. The whole left. Yeah that my mother didn't like couldn't fail. And I think I like to send I think that's why I date shitty men still, because it stems all the way back from the way my mother treated me, from me like craving that in men like now I'm more aware of it, and I'm more conscious of it and it's and I'm slowly changing and dating with more clarity and more consciously dating. But I do think there's still a part of me that that still craves that love and that care that I feel like my mother didn't adequately provide me, and that I now find in men. Wow, pretty profound. I think that you're but I honestly think you're spot on. You reckon. Yeah, I think you just have a lot of credit as well for moving past that. It's a pretty like. The wounds from childhood are pretty hard to to heal on our own, they are, and you've done a pretty amazing job. Yeah, our childhood has such a significant impact on how we approach romantic relationships later in life. Whatever it may be, like that that instance of your sister is so hard to hear, because I'm sure all of us, in some way or another have some niggling little insecurity or mistreatment or trauma from childhood that we just can't seem to shake. It's still there. Yeah, Like, I think I had a similar thing to what you were saying, where I never felt like anyone found me attractive when I was younger, and I never felt particularly like lovable, Like no one really ever showed interest in me at all compared to all the other girls because I was like pretty nerdy and I kind of like stuck to myself a little bit, and I was like, yeah, I was a bit of a nerd and I didn't like go out and party or do anything like that. Like I wanted to read and make art and like you know, go to book club and play basketball. Like I was. I was a loser. But I love that. I love that I was a loser because look about how it's turned out. I moved away from home when I was eighteen and like completely created a new life for myself that I love. But that early experience where everyone else around you is dating, it's having like their first sexual experiences, is like having these early romantic experiences. When you feel like you're missing out on those, you get your your you get older, and suddenly you're like, okay, I want that now, and you begin to collect because it's like every time you receive that affection that you never got in those early like teen years, those formative teen years, it feels initially like it's healing you, like it's giving them either thing that you've always done it. Yeah, yeah, it's intense. I'm sure did you find that like that first? Yeah? Yeah, And I'm sure it didn't mean as much to the man showing, you know, to me, it felt it was much more important to me than it was to him. But yeah, and it probably probably didn't mean anything, but to me it meant everything. Ever, and then they clung onto that so much more. And every time someone a new person shows you that, it just it It kind of not so much reaffirms, but it, I don't know, it like pushes aside that belief that you have for like, I'm not lovable, and every time like someone else shows you that you are, someone else shows you that they are attracted to you, that they want to have sex with you, they want to date you, it just like pushes that that belief. It actually never really addresses its aid. Yeah, a band aid solution, and then it makes you more reliant on them as well, which then makes the problem, I guess, kind of worse. Yeah, absolutely, because you're like, shit, I didn't actually work on my self esteem in other ways. I just use this external validation to distract, to distract me and to put a temporary band aid over this, like very big wound that it's going to actually impact me not only just in my dating life but everywhere else as well. Um, that's definitely something I found. And then I was like went through I remember in like my second year of UNI, I was just like went through like a bit of a hole phase. Yeah, it's like I just need this, Like this is just like the most temporarily nourishing thing I could find. It was like it was like junk food. I was like, yeah, it's so good and like, yeahm like this is all I've ever wanted. And then like you wake up the next day and you're like, oh, I feel so feel terrible. I feel terrible, and like that insecurity is still there, especially when it's like it doesn't just become about whether they find you attractive, it's about whether they can love you. And then then they don't love you, and then that's an even bigger insecurity. It's like yeah, sure, I'm like I'm fuckable and I'm attractive, but am I lovable? Yeah? No, Like you don't feel that way, and then you end up in situation ships, which is I think my bread and butter. Honestly, I've been in like four in the past Yeah, year and a half and all. But I'm better. I'm getting better at them now. The last one I was like, he was like I don't really want anything, and I was like, great, see you later. Good for you. I was like, I was like, not not doing this again. And then it actually was really great because after like a couple of weeks, I had that realization where I was like, WHOA, Like this man really didn't put in any effort. He was actually not that nice to me. He doesn't really do anything with this life, Like I would be like, tell me, Like I remember I asked him on one about first dates. I was like, what's the thing you're most passionate about? Yeah, and he couldn't answer the question and he was like my family. And I was like, yeah, everyone's passionate about their family, Like it's called love. Yeah, Like I was like, and I was like, oh, you know, he's still finding himself. And then like cut to like five weeks later, and I was like, oh my gosh, that should have given me. That should have been the biggest indicator. Okay, so I really want to talk about what we've learned. We've already talked about that a little bit, but what are we bringing into our dating lives in twenty twenty three? What are our non negotiables? Didn't you make it? You made a list this year, didn't you? For you? I made a list? Can I read it? Yeah? So are? These are my expectations and dating boundaries for tw twenty two. I think they might change this year. But the first one was I'm looking for a relationship. That was something I realized. I think I always thought that I was like the hook up, one night stand situation ship girlie, like I could just have heaps of casual sex and I'd be happy. And then I was like, actually, no, I would like to be loved and cared for and supported. So I guess set your intent, like no, way, you're looking for and know what you want? Yeah, I feel like that's the first what you don't want? What I don't want? Yeah, yeah, which might be you know, one night stands, casual sex, whatever it is. Here's the thing, Like, I'm still up for that, but like, I'm looking for a relationship. So I think if it's someone that I could seriously see myself dating and they don't want to date me, I've learned pretty I've learned now through trial and error. Like we talked about, yeah, to cut that off like as soon as possible so no one gets hurt. Yeah. I also said I will only go on five casual dates before I know what they want. It used to be like three, but I was like, sometimes you really do just want to get to know the person and like have a bit of like almost a friendship there, or liken't have enough knowledge before knowing what they want. If they're looking for something casual, that is not for me, So I will break things off, which I did with that guy that I was saying I think things ended in like October. I was like, Nat, not going to work this next one I think is really important. They need to message me to make plans. If I made the last plan, I expect them to make the next and I will not compromise. If they want to see me, they will That one I broke because I think sometimes like I'm the busier normally the busier party. Like I work a full time job, I also run the show. I also have so many other things going on in my life, friends, other side hustles like sports, family, So normally I'm the busier person. So it's sometimes up to me to be like to indicate when I'm free. Yeah, but most of the time I'm like, I will be like, I'm free on Friday, would you like to do something? And then I if I've like planned the last day, I'm like, you expect them, yeah, um, frequent communication. I'm not going for like, I don't know, I'm not going like two weeks without talking to someone completely and then they even like a week and then they like pop up. I'm like, Okay, if you can go without thinking about me for that long, then I'm not really that interested. And I don't think it's like a great foundation if you're someone like me who was looking for a relationship at this point in their life. This one's kind of like a little bit spicy. So if you're my mom and dad, you don't have to listen to this or someone I work with. Please after four dates where sex is involved, I expect a non sexual date because I think I fall into I fell into the trap with oh I said his name with the guy from end of last year, like we would have sex every single day, and I was like, yeah, I obviously really enjoy having sex with you, and it's like great, but also I feel kind of like you don't really see me, and it may let me feeling pretty icky. Do you add anything to that list? I guess you're not really. I feel like you're you're non negotiables might be a little bit different. Yeah, And I think, um, I don't think I'm looking for a relationship anymore currently. Yeah, especially after what I went through, the last breakup that I had, it definitely changed the way I think about how I date. And I felt really really completely misled in that relationship. If I can even call it a relationship, I would Yeah, I think I would too. Um. But then again, in saying that, if I met the right person, yeah, I think I would make it work, even though I might not explicitly be looking for a relationship right now. I also have like a lot of travel plans next year and I'm not willing to compromise no on that currently for anyone. Yeah, And Vietnam, Vietnam and the UK. Maybe I want us to go to the UK together. I'll go to the UK with you? Oh my god, what are you going? March? But I think that's all so a really good point. When I set these like non negotiables and these are the things that I've learned, it's to protect myself because I realize that if this I'm not explicit with myself, and I don't compare the behavior of someone I'm seriously interested in with this stuff, it can be quite detrimental and I can often get wrapped up. I think you and I one thing we really have in common. We are both incredibly sentimental romantic people. Completely. I think it's because we're both quite creative as well, so we want to see the beauty and the love in so many places where other people don't. Yeah, I feel like you're very like susceptible to love about me. I think I'm I just I'm so willing to believe like that this person wants to give me everything. I think I am like a romantic, absolutely romantist. Romantist. I'm a hopeless romantic. I love love. I love giving love. I love was living love. I just want to give love to everyone, and so when someone wants to give me love, of course I'm going to accept it. Why would somebody lie about that? I do not know. Why would somebody lie about that? I don't know if you can answer that for us. I feel like we would give you a sizeable check, a lot of money. I can guess I think it's well, I think it stems from a deep insecurity with him within them. You know, they probably think they don't you know, don't deserve love or don't have the capacity to be loved truly for who they are. So they love bomb vulnerable, beautiful people like us to make us well, to feel closer to us than too ye, to then make us yeah. Yeah. I also think it's because they don't know what they want. Yeah, And also they don't and then like the start of a relationship is like always the fun part, right, it's super exciting, and then they often don't realize that love and commitment takes more than just fun things and compliments and sex and gifts. Yeah, Like it actually takes vulnerability and honesty. And often they're super onboard for that first chapter yeah, where it's just like super fun and there's no responsibility and it's like it's just getting to know someone, And then you get to that next stage where it actually requires you to have some kind of awareness of your emotional needs and they needs of others, and they're like, oh, she's like I'm out, Like I can't do that. How would you differentiate? Because I know every relationship is different than people. People always act differently when they meet. You know, everyone is different. How would you differentiate somebody love bombing you with somebody who truly has fallen in love with you very quickly and is showing that intensity at the beginning of you dating them, and it's and it's true and it's authentic and it's raw, and they have no negative intentions towards you or no desire to manipulate you. How do you differentiate that. I actually was thinking about this the other day. I think it's about identifying what it's in response to. So it's love bombing if it's in response to perhaps you pulling away or them having done something maybe a little bit wrong, yeah, or like it's something that's upset you yea, or like as I think it's a form love bombing would be seen as a form of manipulation. It's the use of like love to not coerce, but to attract you in a way that like they can't fulfill on their end. So it's like, if they're trying to win you over, that's love bombing. Yeah, because someone who you cannot truly fall in love with someone unless it's reciprocated, do you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, you could have unrequited love, but when you think about that person who truly loves you, it's probably because you truly love them back, and you've both allowed yourselves to be vulnerable and to connect. So when they show you love in that situation, it's not like they're trying to win you over. They've already won you over. They're not doing it in response to something that they've done wrong. They're not doing it to kind of almost coerce you. They're doing it because it's just this general that there's like serious, like expression of a deep emotion, whereas love bombing is a way of like winning you over and like capturing you, bringing you in and like all that excitement. Yeah. Yeah, I honestly, if you please don't take my advice, like do your research, because I don't know. That's just what I think, And I think that reminds me of when I watched He's just not that into you. Yeah, I think they said, what do they say? Something like there is the exception? You know, like there's always that one or two exceptions for people who you know, meet someone and instantly fall in love and it's so intense and passionate and beautiful, and then it continues that for years. But for most of us, whether they they say we are there were the rule. Yeah, it's called the rule. Yeah, because it's typical. Yeah, my grandparents are one of those exceptions. Oh my god. I went out for dinner with them last night. They are so in love. They're like ninety and eighty, like eighty seven and eighty, I think. And my granddad's still like, oh baby, look lovely to night and like calls her babe and like we'll literally do anything for her. Didn't make men like that anymore. They don't about they were telling me. My mom was telling me when they first started dating, my grandma had just come out of a really messy divorce. Yeah, she doesn't listen to this, but I hope she won't mind me talking about it. Um, she came out of this really messy divorce with my actual grandfather who we never I've never spoken to, and he was like really awful. And she met this man my grandfather and not my my grandfather by nature, not by blood, like he is my grandfather, but he's not my blood relative, but still like family, family thrown through and she met him and he just like wowed her, Like what we were talking about, that like distinction between just doing things because you love someone and love me. He like took her on trips, He bought her like diamonds, He bought her for codes from Paris. He like he hired her as part of his photography business and got her to run everything, like her in charge of everything, would take her business advice, bought her a house, moved her to Australia, like the whole kebab. Yeah, everything if you wanted to, he was. And I was like, and literally and it's still in love with her, yeah, like every year, like it's so so in love with her and thinks that she is just the most amazing woman. And I was like, fuck, m I need to go back to whenever the nineteen sixties and pick me up one of these guys. He's so lovely. It's honestly such a but I feel very lucky now. You know you've made me think that, like I've actually I've had those examples and like my parents as well, like I would say, yeah, I would say they're pretty in love. I don't know. I don't like to think about it, but like, um, I've had but I've had those examples of like people stick like sticking around and yeah, really putting in the energy. Yeah. Yeah. Well one final question, where do you see your love life at the end of twenty twenty three. It's a hard it's hard, and like I feel like my the you know, context around of my love life has changed so much in the last month that I'm rethinking everything. I see you fully in love? Do you reckon? Oh? Yeah, I know you say you're not looking for a relationship. I don't think you're looking, but as your very close friend take it a leader, I think you are someone who who is a relationship girl. I think, yeah, I think at the you know, I think I am as well, right, I just I just I think I do want to just give somebody all my love, Yeah, because you are so so generous When you love someone, you love them so deeply. You are one of the most generous, giving people I have ever met in all my travels, my whole life. And I think you do want to give that to someone, do Yeah? And you have so much of it to give, Like the amount that you're giving people who can't even reciprocate is ridiculous, Like imagine when somebody is reciprocating I'm such a good girlfriend, I think, oh frick, yeah, I would date you. I would date you too, should forever I see being in a relationship, I see Honestly, I don't think I'm getting into a relationship anytime soon. Really, Oh my gosh. Next year is so busy for me. Yeah, you're in a relationship with your work right now. Yeah, I'm obsessed, which is okay. I think that's In fact, I think that's great. I know I do. I do, like feel a bit self conscious about it sometimes, like I don't know friends and family or from like, yeah, you need to not work all the time, and yeah, I'm just too, I'm too invested, like this is yeah, the big like one of this is I love doing this. It's such an investment to me. I just actually really care about it and want to do it every day, every waking minute. I'm always thinking about it. So how can I have time to give that to someone else? Because I think if I was to be dating someone, it would take away from the things that really drive me at the moment and really feel my soul, so it wouldn't be what I would want thank you so much for coming on Sydney. Thank you. That was such a fun episode. Yeah, I felt really cathartic. Yeah, it always is to talk to you. Yeah, it always is to talk to you as well, you too, Oh my gosh. I also just feel like it's such a great kind of way to reflect on what we've wanted this year and bring it into the new year. Any final thoughts before we wrap up. Dating is such an important and such important part of my life and it's so fun. But I think next year it's really time to focus on me and I think um and I hope everyone listening also takes the time to to really love themselves and dedicate next year to yourself. Actually, this this this really good quote I saw. Do you mind if I read it to you? Yeah, of course. So it goes, if you spend your time chasing butterflies, they'll fly away. If you spend your time making a beautiful garden, the butterflies will come to you, and if they don't come, then you still have that garden. I love that quote. That's so beautiful. That's a great amatic. Yeah, it's a great way to finish this episode. I think the one thing we haven't talked about much. That is so important is that the relationship you cultivate with yourself. You know, we've talked a lot about dating, but that relationship is the most important one you will ever have in your entire life. Yeah, it's the only one that isn't going to disappear. It's not going to go away. It is essential that you spend time focused on what you mean to yourself, how you love yourself, what you like to do, and those close relationships that really bring you joy. So to the garden, your own garden. I guess one other thing before we go that we want to talk about is that we have some merchandise coming out. Are you excited. I'm so excited for it. I am as well. We're doing a toebag and a hoodie. It's going to be an exclusive launch and yeah, Sydney is actually designing, Yeah, both of them. I thank you for asking me to design that. Oh literally, there's no one else I would have to do it. Of course. I trust you so much and I love what you do. So I was like, um, it's such an amazing thing that we can do together. And we will release some early images and the link to purchase on the podcast Instagram at that Psychology podcast if you want to follow Sydney as well at sid feray f r e y yeah s y d e y sid Fairy Fairy yeah um, and we'll release some pictures if you want to get your hands on some merchandise to support the podcast, to support Sydney's amazing artwork and amazing work as an artist, we would be very appreciative. And also it's just going to be really sick, so yeah, it'll be so pretty. Yeah, it will be re oh me too. It will be released in the next two months, so make sure you're following along to get your hands on that. I'm excited. It's one of the big things I wanted to do for twenty twenty three and it's great being able to do it with a close friend. So thank you again for coming on. Thank you so much for letting me come on. Yeah, one of my favorite episodes. I love talking to my friends on the show. So if you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoy the podcast, please make sure to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening right now if you feel called to do so. It really helps the show grow and reach new audiences, and make sure you are following our Instagram. At that Psychology podcast, Like I said, it's where you will hear the first about merchandise. We also often do polls where you can decide what episodes are coming out in the week that follows. I let my listeners decide what I record, So if you want to be involved in the community, please feel free to follow us over there, and thank you so much for listening.